Screw Continuity! Borg on Enterprise

[Woolen Horde]

I don't know why I'm posting this, because I've totally given up on this show. But tonight, the Borg are on Enterprise. Yup. The Borg.

I used to be one of the most fervent Trekkers you could ever know, but now I'm just totally apathetic now. Anyway, if you want to see Berman and Braga spit on Gene's grave some more, tune in tonight.

[Troy S Goodfellow]

Yeah, I saw the promos for this episode and sighed heavily.

If they find a way to "infect" the Collective and defeat them handily, it will become ever clearer that Archer is in a different timeline from Picard.

Troy

[Raife]

What, on the new show? Sheesh, are they running out of plotlines already?

[Jason McCullough]

Good to see Star Trek in the dustbin with Star Wars.

[Desslock]

Man, that's pathetic. They really are creatively bankrupt.

As terrible a filmmaker as Lucas is, at least he's retained creative vision.

[Ben Sones]

They have an out--it's not really the Borg. At the end, they find out that they are actually trapped on the holodeck.

[DennyA]

The one way they could pull this off without ruining continuity would be for the Borg they find to be survivors of the time-traveling Borg from Zefrem Cochrane's time, from Star Trek XXVIII or whatever that was.

True, that wouldn't explain Picard's suprise at encountering the Borg, but remember, this is hundreds of years prior. If I met, say, the French Army from 200 years ago, I probably wouldn't recognize them either, what with their aggressive fighthing stance and all that...

[Tyjenks]

Is there now a written or unwritten FCC law that there must always be a Trek series airing onnn some crappy network somewhere. ST: TNG was great. I have tried and simply not enjoyed any series since.

[DennyA]

Much of ST:TNG sucked too. I dare you to call any episodes from the first two seasons "great." Blecchhhhh! And there was plenty of mediocrity in seasons 3-7, but there were enough "great" episodes spread across those to fill an entire season, at least.

(And c'mon, TNG WAS the show that had kids on the bloody ship. Oh, Great Bird, what were you thinking?)

DS9 got off to a slow start, but I thought the last few years (save the series finale) were really good -- and more consistently good than TNG.

Enterprise is mediocre rehash, but it's hella better than Voyager. Voyager was soo, soo very bad. Enterprise has at least had a few good moments.

I spent so much of my youth wishing Star Trek would come back on that I have a Pavlovian need to tune in to any new Trek series. But good lord, after the fiasco of Nemesis, you'd think Paramount would realize it's time to send Berman and his crew packing.

Take the show off for a year and let me retool it. :-)

[Anders Hallin]

(And c'mon, TNG WAS the show that had kids on the bloody ship. Oh, Great Bird, what were you thinking?)
http://www.gamespy.com/comics/dorktower/archive.asp?nextform=viewcomic&id=732

[Tyjenks]

I can go along with the theory that as TNG got better I became spoiled and then failed to give Deep Space a long enough trial run. However, even when I went back to DS9 now and again, I did not like the stagnant setting of a space station. I realize they were not shackled to it throughout the series, but it added to my dislike.

Voyager: Blech!

Enterprise: I tried. Quantum Leap made me despise Fred Savage or whatever his name is. Bach...Manback...drawing a complete blank. (not bothering to google it) Lord of Illusions and that football flick with the mule were OK, but QL...ugh!

To use a lame comparison, Picard was sorta the Jack Bauer of Star Trek for me. No topping him. (Although number One, I have always thought was horrendous.)

[Bub, Andrew]

They have an out--it's not really the Borg. At the end, they find out that they are actually trapped on the holodeck.

No silly! They learn it was all an illusion, yes. But it was an illusion caused by a godlike being, who wants to learn about this thing you call love and who turns out to be a child.

EDIT: and looks human aside from bumps on his forehead and the bridge of his nose.

[Dirt]

Is that what the new gig is? To diverge Enterprise's timeline from Kirk's?

[Ben Sones]

They didn't even really try to explain it. It was just like "Whoah! Here are some Borg in the Alpha quadrant!" and be damned with continuity. Where the hell did they come from? Why doesn't Starfleet do something about it? I mean, come on--they even know when the Borg transmission is going to become a threat (odd, since in TNG the Borg didn't know about humans until they met the Enterprise, at which point they beelined for Federation space at maximum warp). Did someone misplace the memo?

Lame.

[Woolen Horde]

What the hell was with the delayed reaction assimilation? Garrrrr.....


Fuck Star Trek.

[Lloyd Heilbrunn]

I watch, but to avoid being annoyed my rule is, anything after Gene Roddenberry's death is not canon .

Same way I feel about Sherlock Holmes and James Bond Pastiches :!:

[DennyA]

The did too explain it...

1) They mentioned Zephram Cochrane talking about the "cybernetic invaders from the future.

2) They mentioned it was a spherical ship that had been there for about 100 years -- the Borg sphere from First Contact.

3) They were careful never to call them "Borg." Even the radio call threatening assimulation left off the "We are Borg" part. Thus, when the Borg threat showed up in the 24th Century, nobody thought to associate it with a 200-year-old encounter with two unknown cybernetic beings.

The only real flub was the subspace message not matching well with the "Q" introduction to the Borg. But hey, there was a quasi-omnipotent being screwing around with reality there... Still, they should have left that part off. It was a cheap way to connect with the TNG Borg that didn't really work.

At any rate, I thought they handled it very well, and it really doesn't disturb continuity. The only real problem I saw was that the Borg should have destroyed their crash site on the way out -- seems there's a crapload of damaged Borg technology still lying around the arctic circle.

When you've been a Star Trek and comic fan for over 30 years, you learn how to plug the plot holes. :-)

[DennyA]

What the hell was with the delayed reaction assimilation? Garrrrr.....

Fuck Star Trek.
You mean Phlox? They explained that -- the nanoprobes were having problems with his physiology and it was taking them a long time to adapt.

Probably some slowdown due to the subspace chronoton radiation flowing from the EPS conduits leading from sickbay to the flux capacitors, too.

[Jason McCullough]

What the hell was with the delayed reaction assimilation? Garrrrr.....

Fuck Star Trek.
You mean Phlox? They explained that -- the nanoprobes were having problems with his physiology and it was taking them a long time to adapt.

Probably some slowdown due to the subspace chronoton radiation flowing from the EPS conduits leading from sickbay to the flux capacitors, too.

Get this man a scriptwriting job!

[Mike Cathcart]

Who would win in a fight, da Borgs or continuity?

Da Borgs!

Daaaaaaaa Borgs!

[Ben Sones]

1) They mentioned Zephram Cochrane talking about the "cybernetic invaders from the future.

Yeah, I caught that, too. But these Borg were much less powerful than the Borg of the future--the delayed assimilation and the weaker adaptive shielding suggest that these are Borg from the current timeline. If not, then those were two more unexplained contrivances.


2) They mentioned it was a spherical ship that had been there for about 100 years -- the Borg sphere from First Contact.

You mean the Borg sphere that the Enterprise destroyed 2.5 seconds after following it through the time rift? Again, continuity problems. And if these Borg were survivors of the failed time-invasion of Earth, why wait until now to send a message to the Collective? Why didn't they send one immediately after their failure on Earth?


3) They were careful never to call them "Borg." Even the radio call threatening assimulation left off the "We are Borg" part. Thus, when the Borg threat showed up in the 24th Century, nobody thought to associate it with a 200-year-old encounter with two unknown cybernetic beings.

Yeah, but they SAW them, saw how they operated, saw what they were capable of. At the very least, you'd think they would have left a message in the Starfleet database. "Dear people 200 years in the future: Watch out for some badass cyborgs that will be gunning for you real soon."

And the Enterprise is Starfleet's first deep space exploration vessel. You would think that its escapades would be History 101 for Starfleet cadets. At the very least, Data would have found the info in about 5 seconds of searching.


The only real flub was the subspace message not matching well with the "Q" introduction to the Borg.

The whole thing was a flub--a poorly executed attempt to shoehorn the Borg into Starfleet's history. What's next? An encounter with the Dominion?

[DennyA]

Ben, you're using Level 2 nitpicking. You know Star Trek is only rated to survive Level 1 Nitpicking during the best of times. :)

[Menzo]

You all realize that when I read your posts in this thread I'm hearing the voice of Comic Book Guy.

Let it go, people. :)

[Ben Sones]

Good point, Adam. ;)

Denny: It's not like this episode was even a stretch, continuity-wise--it downright made no sense.

[Anders Hallin]

I wouldn't be caught dead criticising a tv show so thoroughly, based on some kind of "continuity" concept. It's a tv show, people, get over it.

*tries surreptitiously to hide "Ask me about the Xena finale"-button*

[Alan Dunkin]

Yeah, but they SAW them, saw how they operated, saw what they were capable of. At the very least, you'd think they would have left a message in the Starfleet database. "Dear people 200 years in the future: Watch out for some badass cyborgs that will be gunning for you real soon."

Kind of reminds me a recent Futurama episode, where Fry, who was originally frozen 1000 years into the future is sent back into the past at the moment of his freezing, is talking to Nibbler, a seemingly harmless (sorta) dumb animal pet of Leela who it turns out is quite intelligent and in fact tipped Fry into the cryogenic chamber, and it wasn't a mistake as Fry thought.

Uh, anyway..

The line goes something like this:

Fry: "Oh, wait, I'm going to wind up right back at the Infosphere! Just remember that in the future, the Scooty Puff Jr. [Fry's toy getaway vehicle] suuuucccckkkkssss!" Pop! he disappears.

Nibbler: "In a thousand years I'll get right on it."

Actually I guess that really didn't have anything to do with it, just thought it was funny.

--- Alan

[Timemaster Tim]

Continuity aside, the real problem this episode points out is the lack of creativity. Yanking the borg in? That's a crutch. I thought Enterprise was off to a good start with the introduction of the Andorians. Oh well.

[Jason Cross]

You mean Phlox? They explained that -- the nanoprobes were having problems with his physiology and it was taking them a long time to adapt.

Probably some slowdown due to the subspace chronoton radiation flowing from the EPS conduits leading from sickbay to the flux capacitors, too.

I think the SubAtomic Plot Contrivance Particles were causing fluctuations in the subspace barrier or something. What a bunch of stupid bullshit. I have up on Star Trek back when I realized Voyager would never become passable, and I tried Enterprise but even hottie T'Pal can't keep me interested. I'll give it another shot if they ever change the theme song to something that doesn't make me physically ill.

I'm not into the whole "fuck whatever" thing we have going here, but I'll gladly join the "Fuck Star Trek" camp. Count me in.

[Woolen Horde]

Okay, I totally dropped out of Enterprise last season, but damnit, I'm gonna be hot to watch Season 4. Why, you ask? Well, as you may know, at the end of Season 3, the producers were under considerable pressure from Paramount due to sagging ratings, so they introduced a new villianous race which, in the season finale, obliterates a big chunk of Planet Earth (namely Florida and Central America). Needless to say, this means war, so the bulk (at least 13 episodes) of Season 4 is going to be a big war arc the likes of which we haven't seen before on Trek.

But that's not the reason why I'm so hot about Season 4. The reason is that because Enterprise will get some Marines/Commandos (ala the Argo in Star Blazers), and that one of these elite troopers will be played by this girl...

http://us.imdb.com/Name?Rose,+Julia

Daaaaamn... she's not only a babe, but she's brilliant as well. Daughter of a UN diplomat, international background, degree in Diplomatic History, and did I mention that she's hot? Look out, T'Pol, there's a new lust object on the block.

[Creole Ned]

Scott Bakula is one of the blandest actors on TV.

Enterprise will probably face the humiliation of being canceled next season.

Trek is dead.

That is all.

[Jazar]

What's with the QL/Bakula hate? A pox on you all.

It's the atrocious writing that's killing this show.

[Joe O'Malley]

The hate doesn't matter. What matters is that love or hate, despite Enterprise being bland, it still seems to generate a lot of passion amongst the masses.

I'm a little confused about timelines, though. No, not continuity in the Trek universe. I saw the episode where the alien race blasted the big line in the sand through Florida, et. al., but thought that was the season finale. I haven't even been looking at the channel for new episodes lately. Are there new episodes on now?

[awdougherty]

The borg, eh? Damn, will someone bring in a crash cart for the Star Trek creative team? I'm waiting for the Enterprise episode where Bakula gets stuck travelling back in time and he has different adventures trying to help people. Jolene Blalock could be his companion who sets up the episode.

[Creole Ned]

Oh, I don't hate Scott Bakula, I just find him horribly uninteresting to watch. He's like a big tofu cube of an actor, no spice, no flavor.

Of course, that's just my opinion. :)

I was a pretty big Star Trek geek for years. I never spoke Klingon or wore pointy ears, but I did go to one convention and submitted teleplays to both TNG and Voyager (and wrote a TNG parody that was obviously never submitted), but somewhere around the fifth season of Voyager (after DS9 was off the air), I just couldn't stand it anymore. Then Nemesis came out, proving the Next Gen cast could star in movies as bad as the horrid Star Trek V (and Nemesis actually made significantly less money that STV, no small feat when you compare 1989 and 2002 movie ticket prices).

The whole franchise just seems threadbare and worn. The best thing they could probably do is just pull the plug on Enterprise and mothball the whole thing for half a decade, then try again with a new creative team. The whole "hey, a long war-filled story arc saved DS9 so it can save Enterprise, too!" is just more evidence that they don't have any fresh ideas.

[cyborg]

This is funny - but then it's hardly not to be expected - the Borg have changed what they are so many times now. Why stop doing so?

[Joe O'Malley]

I wonder if they ever thought of doing something like elite force? I saw an ad for it in this months' CGW. A commando squad, sexy chicks, big phaser rifles, alien menaces in contained situations, maybe it could work. It could be intense, violent, and open the door for a lot of "no primary directive here" blastfesting. Hmm.

[Supertanker]

I wonder if they ever thought of doing something like elite force?

They are already working on it. Click here (http://www.trektoday.com/news/150703_02.shtml). Click here, too (http://tvshowboards.comicboards.com/startrek/view.php?trd=030715033642).

[RichardC]

I'd like to see them give the Federation a break and try something else in the universe. Preferably something that doesn't have to be quite so sterile.

[Joe O'Malley]

I wonder if they ever thought of doing something like elite force?

They are already working on it. Click here (http://www.trektoday.com/news/150703_02.shtml). Click here, too (http://tvshowboards.comicboards.com/startrek/view.php?trd=030715033642).

Ah, but will these commandos feature hot babes in skintight black costumes?

[Dirt]

They've completely forgotten what made Star Trek so popular in the first place.

[Joe O'Malley]

I have to agree. The original Trek, while hammy, was also bold, different, sexy, and had a good deal of action and drama.

Enterprise, on the other hand, tends to have micro-crises, like a mine stuck to the hull and 2 characters yakking through the whole episode, or the first officer being threatened with being ostracised by her people because she caught an unpopular disease. Yawn.

Not much action. Really, not that much adventure. And sexy? Bleah.

[Toddy]

Episodes are also just flat-out poorly written. I saw one awful episode last night that didn't have a beginning, middle, or ending. Archer is condemned to Rura Penthe by the Klingons in something like 30 minutes of boring courtroom scenes and flashbacks. In the trial, there's no suspense, no dramatic developments. When Archer's convicted, there's no suspense. He and his lawyer are taken away, there's a cut to the bridge of Enterprise (what the fuck is with the pretentious nonsense behind not using "the" anymore?), the Vulcan chick says something about knowing people, and right afterward one of the crewmen shows up on the prison planet and takes Archer home. The end. Dull and pointless.

This show is the bottom of the barrel. I've only seen five or six episodes, but I've tuned into quite a few others and given up after 15 minutes or so. It's incredible that such a big show for Paramount is so poorly made. How did Braga and Berman ever get a stranglehold on Trek? Everything they've done has been lifeless, monotonous garbage with cardboard characters speaking dialogue filtered through some kind of fucking emotion-removing machine.

[Dirt]

The 2 main female characters are just rehashes of the 2 characters from Voyager. The Vulcan is a match for the Borg and Hoshi is a wide eyed little girl like Neelix' old girlfriend. The only amusing character is the doctor. They try too hard to make the characters appealing but instead of letting it come out naturally they practically force it down our throats. We knew Spock was conflicted because he's half human but we weren't told it in every other fucking episode.

The only salvation for this show is if they blew up the entire crew and started over.

[SimplyCosmic]

I find myself pretty much agreeing with the individual episode reviews here (http://www.firsttvdrama.com/enterprise/index.php3).

Sad, really, when the author points out the number of plotlines that have been used already in TNG, DS9 and even Voyager.

[Woolen Horde]

I find myself pretty much agreeing with the individual episode reviews here (http://www.firsttvdrama.com/enterprise/index.php3).

Sad, really, when the author points out the number of plotlines that have been used already in TNG, DS9 and even Voyager.

OMFG, those reviews are HILARIOUS!

[Toddy]

The plot device that's been used the most has to be the "one good Klingon." You all know it. Picard/Sisko/Archer/Riker/etc. run into one enlightened Klingon who, unlike all his buddies, doesn't want to kill every human in the name of honor, revenge, glorious combat, blah, blah. I think they've done at least three of these episodes a year since TNG debuted in 1987. More if you expand the idea to include Romulans and Cardassians. They even expanded the idea to the Borg, with those moronic Hugh episodes.

[Jason McCullough]

"One good Klingon/Romulan/Cardassian" episodes: subconscious parallels to black tokenism or no?

:D

[Ranulf]

I find myself pretty much agreeing with the individual episode reviews here (http://www.firsttvdrama.com/enterprise/index.php3).

Sad, really, when the author points out the number of plotlines that have been used already in TNG, DS9 and even Voyager.

OMFG, those reviews are HILARIOUS!


Yeah but I don't know if I should pity him for taking things a bit too seriously or agree with him completely cause (the) enterprizen is der sucken. Well, except as someone once put it oh so eloquently, Boobies McSpock and her weekly rub downs. Yowza..

[Greedo]

I'm a Trek fan, although I haven't watched one second of Enterprise.

Have any characters from any of the other series' made an appearance yet?

ala Scotty storing himself in the transporter buffer so that he could be discovered by Geordi. Or the cheesy contrivance that allowed Picard & Kirk to team up in Generations?

To me, that's much more damnning evidence that they're out of ideas than screwing with the continuity.

[Dirt]

The way things are going, they may as well do a Star Fleet Academy series with a WB twist.

[awdougherty]

The way things are going, they may as well do a Star Fleet Academy series with a WB twist.

That would be AWESOME!!! Imagine all the crew in training are actually teenagers and they spend the whole time discovering their bodies and getting into spats.

Honestly, while I know the original poster was joking, I think something can be taken from it. Instead of trying to write good characters and stories, they're trying to do more gimmicks and hooks. Bakula was good in Quantum Leap, but an edgier, more dangerous character would have been better.

[Chris]

That was actually a direction Berman et all were considering going with from what I recall. Star Trek has no soul anymore, it's been bled dry in the name of greed. Unless the creative forces are changed out wholesale the shows will continue to suck ass.

[Joe O'Malley]

That was actually a direction Berman et all were considering going with from what I recall. Star Trek has no soul anymore, it's been bled dry in the name of greed. Unless the creative forces are changed out wholesale the shows will continue to suck ass.

When were they considering this? At the show's inception? Or now, with this space marine idea?

I think the space marines are a great idea. Giant warrirors in power armor, bolters at the ready, blasting the space orks back to their caves...oh. Wrong kind of space marine.

[Woolen Horde]

When Paramount tasked them with coming up with a new Trek series, they tested a few ideas in survey groups...

1. Starfleet Academy 90210--It's Star Trek, but with teens!

2. Star Trek: The A-Team--It's Star Trek, but with commandos!

3. Star Trek: The Prequel--aka Enterprise, or The-Show-Whose-Ratings-Have-Utterly-Collapsed-Because-It's-A-Pile-of-Crap.

And we all know how that turned out.

[Dirt]

Did they try:

Star Trek: The space explorers?

[cyborg]

[quote=Chris]
I think the space marines are a great idea. Giant warrirors in power armor, bolters at the ready, blasting the space orks back to their caves.

Now that's TV I want to watch.

[SimplyCosmic]

When were they considering this? At the show's inception? Or now, with this space marine idea?

Pretty much with the pilot episode. Like the scene with half-nekkid people rubbing each other down with anti-bacterial goo was anything other than a grab for ratings.

Not to mention the arc plot point of completely ignoring all the potential drama of new explorers who had half the tech as Kirk did entering into a completely fresh galaxy without a Federation to back them up, encountering all the tension of not only meeting other races but bringing them together for a grand alliance, and instead falling back on yet another "big enemy" with yet another "time-travel" twist.

[quatoria]

It doesn't matter what they do. As long as Berman and Braga write, produce, and own the fucking show, it will suck, and the ratings will continue to hit new all time lows. The wonder-twins-for-Satan have killed the franchise as utterly as it is possible to do so, and so long as they are left in charge, the show is unrevivable.

[Jason Becker]

The first borg episode was one of my favorites. Also had Q which made it even better. Now they have pretty much dragged them down into the cesspool like everything else.

[Joe O'Malley]

Honestly, I don't think the problem with the show is general suckage.

(pauses for the torches to burn out and the rioting villagers to become hoarse)

I think Enterprise is suffering from half-measure syndrome. It's not that the ideas are bad, they just aren't carried all the way through.

I don't personally care for the whole "Time Bandits" plotline, personally, so I'll skip that one, but look at the rest of it. Enterprise has had gunfights, ship-to-ship battles, good special effects, hostile aliens, hot babes, and desperate peril from invaders, disease, radiation and bad machines (TM).

The problem is, none of these things was carried to enough of an extreme to make it really noteworthy. If your gonna have a gunfight, make it a doozy. Get some people killed and wounded. Blow some stuff up.

If you want to have it out with invading aliens, have more than a couple of them taking out the whole ship. Let's see some compartment-by-compartment desperation here. Let's see some unrealistic yet oh-so-satisfying hand -to-hand combat, with people getting run through on knives.

If you want to have hot babes, then have hot babes. Just do it. Don't show the obvously hot babe in the bulky costume. Don't show the hot babe getting lathered down in the detox room knowing that she feelds nothing. Hot babes without either passion or purpose is a waste. Look at shows that use them successfully. The Sopranos and their strippers (no passion, but obvious eye candy). The original Trek and the miniskirts. Even early TNG (before Gene got beamed up) with those catsuits. There's no apology for for it in any of these. Modern Trek seems ashamed of sexuality, which is a major stumbling block. Also, let's see some romance. That ship's as sterile as a petri dish. Did everyone get their pheremones removed before leaving Earth?

And for the love of God, get some disposable tension-adding cast members. Who could keep track of how many redshirts Kirk got killed? But there's nothing that says "the situations dangerous" like watching your security detail get pasted.

So for me, I say if you're gonna do a thing, do it all the way. If we have commandos coming, use them a lot, and violently. Add some sex to the ship (and the story) and let's get cracking. Diplomacy is fine and good, but needs to be seen as the counter-point to a violent universe, not the easy solution TO a violent universe.

[cyborg]

The main problem with Enterprise is that despite what was said at its inception it totally fails to feel original, dangerous, sexy or in any way contiguous. It is merely a sucession of poorly executed stories that have no impact on any other stories. You fail to give a crap about these people. You fail to have any sense of danger as you catergorically know that despite the fact Enterprise is supposed to be pretty much technologically inferior to everything else out there it's going to come through. An original concept would have shown the Enterprise being throughly whipped and sent back home packing by some nasty people - forcing a conflict with dramatic overtones for Earth - you're out there, you're known about and people who can kill you want to kill you a lot. That's what B5 had with the Shadows. Enterprise has a temporal cold war that;s going nowhere and makes no sense.

[Timemaster Tim]

They don't really seem to be boldly going where no man has gone before.

[cyborg]

^It doesn't help with things like the fact there are boomers who have supposedly been out in space on their trade routes for years, long lost colonists etc...

[DennyA]

The concept for Enterprise was sound. In fact, it had great potential.

The problem is that the writing crew has been doing this too long. Rehashed ideas. They need to do what TOS did and bring in some real SF writers. And do what The Simpsons does and rotate out the writing staff every few years.

Enterprise could be made into a good show. Despite the Bakula-bashing, I think the only poor actor on the show is the guy who plays Mayweather. (He's improved a bit, but still isn't convincing; and Blalock went from terrible to "okay.") But these people have crap to work with.

[Dirt]

Joe O'Malley,
I think you miss the premise of what Star Trek has always been about: exploration and free love (just about everybody on Enterprise is sexually repressed*). This was all embodied in Kirk (balanced out with Spock and McCoy). Kirk was very much human with many foibles. He was a man who very much believed in humanity in all creatures and beings. His opposite is Khan who believed in his own superiority and would do anything (including commit atrocious acts of violence) to show it. In my opinion, Enterprise is following the Khan path where all the races involved are trying to vy for superiority. They need to go back to telling stories that show the good in all creatures. Star Trek was never totally violent, dangerous but not violent.

*They devoted a whole episode on this with the Captain and how he's repressing his feelings for T'Pol. Then there's the one where Tucker spends the entire episode running away from one of the Doctor's wives. Then, there's the one where T'Pol gets mind raped... Need I go on?

[Joe O'Malley]

Joe O'Malley,
I think you miss the premise of what Star Trek has always been about: exploration and free love (just about everybody on Enterprise is sexually repressed*). This was all embodied in Kirk (balanced out with Spock and McCoy). Kirk was very much human with many foibles. He was a man who very much believed in humanity in all creatures and beings. His opposite is Khan who believed in his own superiority and would do anything (including commit atrocious acts of violence) to show it. In my opinion, Enterprise is following the Khan path where all the races involved are trying to vy for superiority. They need to go back to telling stories that show the good in all creatures. Star Trek was never totally violent, dangerous but not violent.

*They devoted a whole episode on this with the Captain and how he's repressing his feelings for T'Pol. Then there's the one where Tucker spends the entire episode running away from one of the Doctor's wives. Then, there's the one where T'Pol gets mind raped... Need I go on?
I think your arguements reinforce mine, not oppose them. You just stated them in a different way. And ST did have some pretty strong violence, just in different ways than I described. Huge brawls, clawed aliens, acid-spitting aliens, psychotic green woman aliens, people getting dissolved by phasers, etc. I think you make an excellent point about the Khan-vs. Kirk approach, though. The difference is that the Enterprise crew now is more of a 70's "let it be, kumbaya" bunch than a 60's exploration and free love bunch.
To Denny's point I don't have a problem with the seemingly disjointed episodes. These are explorers. Each week they are in a different place, experiencing something new and (ahem) alien. I'd expect the shows to be varied. The thing that bugs me is that we don't get a sense of wide-eyed wonder about it all. We get a sense of "Gee, that was neat. Can't wait to write the report about it later." I also agree that the show still has tremendous potential. They just need to take the gloves off and do some risky things. And start having the cast act like real people, rather than a bunch of politically correct automatons.

[SimplyCosmic]

According to the latest Entertainment Weekly's Fall TV guide:


This season, ''[the show's] more about action,'' says Bakula. ''If we have to blow something up, we blow it up.'' A different kind of action will occur between Vulcan hottie T'Pol (Jolene Blalock) and all-American engineer Trip (Connor Trinneer), who's mourning his sister's murder by the Xindi. ''She's gonna start using Vulcan techniques to help him get through this,'' says executive producer Brannon Braga, ''some of which involve very intimate massage.''

Vulcan techniques using intimate massage?

Can you get any more sex-sells-ratings-grab obvious?

And forget plot, we'll just substitute loud explosions anwhere in the script where we should have hired real writers.

:roll:

[Troy S Goodfellow]

Salon (http://www.salon.com/ent/tv/review/2003/09/10/enterprise/index.html) seems to think that Enterprise is a big step forward for the Trek enterprise. Since I stopped seriously watching many months ago, is any of this true?

NOTE: This is a Salon premium piece. If you sit through a brief silent ad by the ACLU, you can read this article.

Troy

[Ranulf]

Salon (http://www.salon.com/ent/tv/review/2003/09/10/enterprise/index.html) seems to think that Enterprise is a big step forward for the Trek enterprise. Since I stopped seriously watching many months ago, is any of this true?

NOTE: This is a Salon premium ad. If you sit through a brief silent ad by the ACLU, you can read this article.

Troy

Meh. I sure don't think so but at least according to that article they've gotten rid of the god awful rod stewart type intro song and its now "Star Trek: Enterprise" not just Enterprise.

[Dirt]

The Salon writer and I aren't watching the same show.

[RichardC]

Yep, that's what the ratings would indicate too.

[Woolen Horde]

First report from Hercules is that it's the same song, although up-tempoed. (Kinda like how they took DS9's majestic (at least, I thought it was) theme song and technoed it up a bit).

Also, it's still "Enterprise" sans the "Star Trek" in the title sequence. Although I think they "Star Trek" the title in ads, just to remind non-viewers that there's still a Star Trek floating around.

[XPav]

The Salon writer and I aren't watching the same show.

No kidding. What was that guy on?

[Toddy]

I've been watching the last few episodes of last season, and caught the season premiere last night, and have to say that I like the show a little better now. It doesn't have that Star Trek inertia anymore. Plots seem more focused and there isn't that old TNG "we must avoid any and all action so we can talk" crap. The sexed up stuff is pretty much ridiculous, though. Berman and Braga have come up with this Vulcan massage nonsense where T'Pol wears flimsy lingerie and even takes her top off for a Janet Jackson moment where she covers her nipples with her hands. Still, I didn't turn away. There was more action as well, included a lengthy firefight. This didn't exactly jazz up the episode, though, as it was filmed in such gloom that you couldn't really tell what the hell was going on.

But the Salon article was insane. Enterprise is still second-class compared even to other genre shows like Angel. There are no deep meanings here, and the show is really clumsy in comparison even to TV-by-the-numbers junk like The Practice. Still, it's getting better. Aside from that theme song. The drum machine or whatever they added just makes the song worse. At least before it was slightly unconventional schmaltz that wasn't what you generally heard opening TV shows. Now it sounds like a sitcom intro, really cheap and meaningless, without the strings and swelling vocals that made the original such a cheesy pleasure.

[Dirt]

The Salon writer and I aren't watching the same show.

No kidding. What was that guy on?

Dunno, but if I could get some I'd consider watching the show.

[Woolen Horde]

OMG, the new up-tempo version of the theme song pushed the entire affair from schmaltzy-drama theme music to half-hour-comedy theme music. Gaaaaah... why couldn't they just get Horner to recycle some of his really awesome early Star Trek stuff?

Reactions to follow as I watch the rest of the show. Just finished the credits now.

[Brad Grenz]

Judging by the last episode of tonight's episode, I'm beginning to think the Sith might be involved. Do you think they're conciously ripping off crappy Star Wars movies?

[Ben Sones]

I honestly can't tell the difference in the theme song. Though I usually Tivo the show and skip that part, so I guess it's not etched in my mind or anything. Seems like the same crappy elevator-music number that it's always been, though. When folks here mentioned that they had changed it, I though they meant "to something good."

The episode was okay. Not great. Pretty much on par with the rest of the series to date, right down to the mandatory "T'Pol flashes some skin" scene. The subplot about the tension between Malcolm and the Marines went nowhere--it was almost like they forgot about it.

[SimplyCosmic]

The new, faster music makes the opening sequence even more out of touch with the current direction the show has taken.

This is supposed to be a season about the crew tasked with a military mission consisting of hunting down a planet that's out to annilate their race, and they have an upbeat theme song played across images of peaceful exploration.

And T'Pol's new "uniform"? Where have I seen that before?

http://www.canoe.ca/PeopleImagesG/gray_erin.jpg

Oh yeah, on Wilma Dearing . . .

If anything, the CGI scenes and creature makeup only make me realise just how much was lost with the cancellation of Farscape. :(

[Ben Sones]

If anything, the CGI scenes and creature makeup only make me realise just how much was lost with the cancellation of Farscape. :(

Amen. I miss Farscape. Best sci-fi TV series ever.

I have gotten into Stargate SG-1 over the past year, though, and it's also very good. Which, of course, makes me worry that the Sci-Fi Channel will cancel it, too.

[Dirt]

When Brannon and Braga realize that people don't want to watch what they have to write anymore? More importantly, when will Paramount realize this???

[DennyA]

Hey, I was watching Farscape earlier today... Oh, wait, sorry. That was a "Pigs in Space" segment on The Muppet Show.

[Joe O'Malley]

Hey, I was watching Farscape earlier today... Oh, wait, sorry. That was a "Pigs in Space" segment on The Muppet Show.

I think there must have been something in the air at CGW. All the alumni from there hated Farscape, as near as I can tell.

I missed the new voomy theme music, as I was a couple minutes late getting in last night. I poicked it up where Archer was chewing Malcolm out about prudence, or somesuch.

I did notice a few things that were different. It'll be a few episodes before I decide if I like them.

Marines: Could be interesting. They seem off to a good (meaning violent) start. We'll see how it progresses. How many of them are there?

T'Pol: I kind of like that she has additional clothes to wear. Her old catsuit looked like duck hunter camoflauge to me. Why a vulcan, with no interest in sex, would wear strictly skin-tight, sexy-type clothes is a bit of a mystery, but we don't probe those mysteries too closely on shows like this.

Archer: More intense than before. He always made decisions quickly in the past based on his convictions. The writers seem to have preserved that, but he now seems able to prioritize convictions. For example: Desire to save Earth trumps desire to honor the civil rights of the whiny dweeb what almost gets them fried in a plasma conduit. That's never happened before.

Reid: Have to see. They laid a few bricks with the surly Reid not liking the Marines challenging his competance or hegemony, however indirectly. Could have some interesting, if necessarily temporary, effects down the road.

Last, this whole massage thing blows. If Commander glassjaw...er, Tucker, is to have a romantic interest, can it at least be with a woman that has a potential of having romantic interest? Eesh. These trekkers, always falling for robots. Bring back the green women, I say.

[Ben Sones]

Hey, I was watching Farscape earlier today... Oh, wait, sorry. That was a "Pigs in Space" segment on The Muppet Show.

Yeah, yeah, laugh all you want. It had better writing than any of the Star Trek series, though. And at least Brian Henson's aliens don't all look like humans with bumpy foreheads.

[Dirt]

The villains in Star Trek just aren't interesting anymore. They are either whiney dweebs or overly pompous semi Klingons.

[quatoria]

Hey, I was watching Farscape earlier today... Oh, wait, sorry. That was a "Pigs in Space" segment on The Muppet Show.

Yeah, yeah, laugh all you want. It had better writing than any of the Star Trek series, though. And at least Brian Henson's aliens don't all look like humans with bumpy foreheads.

That's true. They mainly look like giant fucking puppets.

KIDDING, just kidding. I loved Farscape, until it started to suck.

[Woolen Horde]

Hello Nurse!

Julia Rose makes her appearance on Enterprise tonight, and her first shot is a doozy. The co-ed locker room, where she's stripped to her skivvies to suit up in her space suit.

*pant*. She's hot. Did we mention smart too? Yeah, it's a blatant ratings ploy, but it works ;)

[cyborg]

Review of episode of original thread topic from site previously linked here:

http://www.firsttvdrama.com/enterprise/e49.php3

[Lloyd Heilbrunn]

Hello Nurse!

Julia Rose makes her appearance on Enterprise tonight, and her first shot is a doozy. The co-ed locker room, where she's stripped to her skivvies to suit up in her space suit.

*pant*. She's hot. Did we mention smart too? Yeah, it's a blatant ratings ploy, but it works ;)

I saw the episode, is she someone I'm supposed to have heard of???

[Woolen Horde]

We talked about her a couple months ago,

http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0741496/

She's one of the new (Uh-oh, better get) MACO's.

In short, daughter of a UN diplomat.

Degree in diplomatic relations from Penn.

Babe. A Star Trek Babe, to be exact.

What more could a geek want?

[Lloyd Heilbrunn]

Oh, OK. I thought I was supposed to have heard of her career :)

But looking at the filmography..........

[Gary Whitta]

Just thought I'd add my two cents:

ENTERPRISE is unmitigated shit.

[SimplyCosmic]

Is it just me or were the MACOs nerfed already by the writers in this, only the second episode of the new season?

The most we've seen at any given time are something like five in the first episode and this time only three. I don't really see the point in even having so few combat specialists. If you're going to have so few, it would be better to simply train more crew members in basic combat to allow dual roles.

Additionally, it's not like the ship hasn't been boarded several times prior in our part of space, why wouldn't they have brought enough security specialists to have guards on duty in all major areas of the ship at all times, especially when going up against a far off enemy out to kill an entire planet?

[Dirt]

they still don't get it.

i predict that enterprise, by the end of the season will lose a bit more of their audience.

all action, no fun.

[Joe O'Malley]

they still don't get it.

i predict that enterprise, by the end of the season will lose a bit more of their audience.

all action, no fun.

I missed it this week. What was the episode story?

[Albert Woo]

http://www.treknation.com/reviews/enterprise/anomaly.shtml

[Joe O'Malley]

http://www.treknation.com/reviews/enterprise/anomaly.shtml

Not exactly an impartial audience, is he? :wink:

[Albert Woo]

Not exactly an impartial audience, is he? :wink:
Heh, if you liked that you should read her review of Voyager's Endgame (www.littlereview.com/getcritical/voyreviews/endgame.htm).

[SimplyCosmic]

I don't want to overlook the superb stuff about this episode, the things Enterprise does better than any show on television...convincing us that a coffee cup can just hang in mid-air with its coffee spilling, showing us crewmembers in EVA suits walking on a ceiling that turns out to be a floor, producing an alien face that's just human enough to be empathetic and just warped enough to make us believe that the alien really has been through hell. Also, the electricity crackling through Engineering, the docking sequences, the exterior and interior visuals of the derelict ship with dead crew...creepy, vivid, entirely believable.

Umm ... no. If anything all of those effects are proof that no matter how much money Paramount throws at the show, the effects are still on the level of much more cheaply made competitors (B5, Farscape, etc).

I was also unimpressed at the whole mentioning of this big sphere possibly having to do with the spatial anomolies, being over a thousand years old, and then just walking away from it without even a second glance.