Silverfall

[Robert Sharp]

Isn't Silverfall coming out soon? Like this month? If so, does anyone have an early reviewable/playable build? I'm very intrigued by this game.

[Incendiary Lemon]

From the demo it seemed quite competent. GoGamer is selling the UK version if you don't want to wait.

[Clay]

There are some good reviews and impressions here, if you're interested:
http://www.gamingtrend.com/forums/index.php/topic,18762.0.html

[Gordon Cameron]

Never heard of this game till now, but definitely sounds intriguing.

[Marcus]

Jesus the game takes 17gb of HD space? Thats insane.

[Midnight Son]

Jesus the game takes 17gb of HD space? Thats insane.

UK version takes up 9GB. It's really well done, I must say. Lots of choices for character builds too. Do you want to specialize in hand to hand, one-handed or two handed weapons? How about ranged? Try specializing in bow, crossbows or even guns. You can really make what you want.

Three main types of magic and you will also choose whether to go down the path of nature or technology. Graphics are very good. The monsters also kick ass. Imagine steam dragons! Or tree dragons! It's also non-linear in that you have lots of maps to explore in any order you want. (As long as you can beat the beasties there.) All in all I like it better than Titan Quest.

[Gordon Cameron]

Urge to play... rising...

[Marcus]

Urge to play... rising...

I agree. I did a lot of reading about it tonight and I am really leaning towards getting it... stupid WoW though always getting in the way.

[Midnight Son]

OOH! I forgot this: One of the choices you have is that a high level nature character can morph into a werewolf and deal massive damage. Just another choice!

Did I mention companions can fight at your side? You can have a healer, a two handed claw dude, a shooter, etc......

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l269/Rohan721/wwolf.jpg

[Equisilus]

If it wasn't for the fact that I'm overloaded with games right now, I would still be on the Silverfall bandwagon as well. It certainly looked interesting, although I wasn't so keen on the artwork/graphics as others. No matter, I had to relegate it to the "when-I-have-a-slow-gaming-time" pile so that I'm not playing each of the games I have for a couple of minutes a day.

It's good to know there's a game I can pick up if that slow time ever hits, though.

[Midnight Son]

One more thing: for a little amount of money, you can redo the stats on your character. Put too many points in Berserker and want to try something else? Redo it!

[Qenan]

Any downside to buying the UK version rather than waiting?

[Incendiary Lemon]

Don't think so... the UK edition is on a DVD but I'd imagine they'll do the same for the US release.

[xahlt]

I couldn't get the demo to install on Vista 64-bit using the Steam version.. contemplating whether I'll bother to download the separate demo and try again.

[Robert Sharp]

Any downside to buying the UK version rather than waiting?

Usually patches are built into the newer releases, but you could always DL the latest patch, so I'm not sure if that is a good enough incentive to wait.

[Tom Ohle]

I couldn't get the demo to install on Vista 64-bit using the Steam version.. contemplating whether I'll bother to download the separate demo and try again.
(before I post in this thread, I should mention that I'm handling PR for this game)

Yeah, there's a bug with the demo; it just doesn't work with Vista 64-bit. That's supposed to have been fixed in the final version.

[Bill Dungsroman]

One more thing: for a little amount of money, you can redo the stats on your character. Put too many points in Berserker and want to try something else? Redo it!
Awesome. I've been waiting a million years for a game to implement a system like this.

[Robert Sharp]

Star Wars Galaxies had something kind of like that, I heard. I never played it. But this is a great idea. I know it's unrealistic, but who cares? I want that kind of customization and re-customization.

[Tom Ohle]

Star Wars Galaxies had something kind of like that, I heard. I never played it. But this is a great idea. I know it's unrealistic, but who cares? I want that kind of customization and re-customization.
From what I can tell, that was really the devs' goal. They wanted to make a hack-and-slash game that allowed for a ton of character customization -- hence the lack of defined character classes... so you can certainly try to make a heavy armor-wearing mage... and if it doesn't work, try something else out.

Going back to the earlier mention of werewolves, something I think is pretty cool about Silverfall is that different races have different Were-forms... Trolls turn into Werelions, Elves into Werepanthers and Goblins into Wererats.

[Robert Sharp]

Love it. This is now my next game purchase, though I probably won't buy it for a bit. Still, this now tops my list, moving Dominions 3 down a notch.

[SuperHiro]

I think this is on steam too.

[Hetz]

Yep, it's on Steam and I've got it preloaded for Tuesday! This game looks like great fun.

[stusser]

Bill was being sarcastic.

Yes, I'm looking forward to Silverfall. Action RPG with a real storyline? Count me in!

[magnet]

One more thing: for a little amount of money, you can redo the stats on your character. Put too many points in Berserker and want to try something else? Redo it!

Isn't this comparable to the free attribute redistribution between missions in Guild Wars?

[Midnight Son]

Isn't this comparable to the free attribute redistribution between missions in Guild Wars?

Dunno, haven't played that.

[EvilIdler]

In Guild Wars, you pay a small amount of experience for each point you want
to redistribute. Experience still matters at max level if you want to respec a little.

[barstein]

Thought I saw a respec guy standing around in Titan Quest IT (Delphi).

[Fugitive]

Looks promising, but the demo doesn't perform very well on my (admittedly ancient) system, so I'll have to wait and take another look at some point in the future.

I also struggled a bit with the camera, but that might just be a matter of fiddling with the controls and options a bit.

[Robert Sharp]

Thought I saw a respec guy standing around in Titan Quest IT (Delphi).

It's in regular TQ, actually. You can pay to remove points. However, I don't think you can remove the actual sets. So you can't suddenly become a Nature guy instead of storm, AFAIK. However, I haven't tried it, so I could be wrong.

[magnet]

In Guild Wars, you pay a small amount of experience for each point you want
to redistribute. Experience still matters at max level if you want to respec a little.
Huh? I don't think you pay anything at all to redistibute your attributes.

You do have to pay a small amount of gold to learn a new (secondary) profession, but switching back to any profession you've already learned is always free. And experience points at max level are only used to buy skills, which you keep forever (but can only be used when you are spec'ed to the appropriate profession).

[Dave V]

It's in regular TQ, actually. You can pay to remove points. However, I don't think you can remove the actual sets. So you can't suddenly become a Nature guy instead of storm, AFAIK. However, I haven't tried it, so I could be wrong.
You're not wrong: you can't unlearn a Mastery, nor can you remove points you put in the Mastery progression bar, just the skills themselves.

[EvilIdler]

Huh? I don't think you pay anything at all to redistibute your attributes.

They might have changed it since last I played, or I might remember wrong,
but I seem to recall that despeccing was limited somehow. Anyway, respeccing
is definitely not something new to CRPGs :)

[Equisilus]

I find that the ability to respec really cuts down on replayability (if you succumb to using it). For example, in my current game of TQ:IT, I refuse to use the Dream mastery's Nightmare summons because I'm saving that for another game. If I use all the skills at various times because I can respec, then I have little left to look forward to in a new game.

To me, respec is just wrong, but that's why it's an option you can choose to avoid. It's actually great that they include it for those that like their games to offer the most customized experience possible. I'm all for customizing your game to the way you like.

The worst is when people say "oh, just respec your character to these skills/type and you'll have no problem killing so-and-so". They just don't get it.

[Robert Sharp]

Good point, but again in TQ you can only do that with specific skills within a mastery. I think it's great for when you get to higher levels and that level one thing you bought is just useless now. Get the points back, and pump up some other skill. You're still a dream master (that sounds lame), but now your important skills are better, or you try a different skill within that area. That leaves you with a BUNCH of other combos to try out in TQ, so there's still plenty of replay.

[Geo]

Gamersinfo.net had a fairly detailed interview the other day:
http://www.gamersinfo.net/index.php?art/id:1609

MP is a bit tricky in terms of the modes, but because of the "choice" about technology and such, I guess they had to lay it out the way they did.

FWIW, the U.S. release looks to be version 1.16, there have been lots of fixes and additions and improvements since the 1.12 release in France.

I put a lot of time in the demo, and while the camera rotation and the way the little pointer on your mini map works drive me crazy (the pointer points in the way your view is, not the direction you're moving; or maybe it's the other way), and often I'd think I'd be moving in one direction but I was misreading the minimap. I also wished NPCs in the town were clearly marked on the map -- I think I read 1.16 version has at least marked NPCs "by color" or something to that effect (this was a Google translation I read).

I liked that two-handed swords had its own little skills tree.

Those obsessing more about variety and randomizing might want to wait for the other French hack'n'clash Loki, which promises a lot of randomizing levels.

I love Titan Quest post-expansion, but I really still feel (at least on normal/epic) it's mostly way too easy. Friends of mine I wanted to get hooked on the game gave up during normal because it was just plain boring in that regard. So for better or worse, Silverfall at least seems a lot tougher in the early going. Once you get the companion #1 and some better equipment, it gets easier but since the demo area is very limited, you don't have a way to move on to more difficult mobs.

[Destarius]

Eh, this has corpse runs?

Pass.

[Geo]

Yes, a return to Diablo and Ultima Online sort-of in that regard, though if I'm remembering the demo here correctly there's a tombstone that basically is a container of your stuff.

It's a pain, but I think you learn pretty quickly not to charge pell mell into 45 monsters like in Titan Quest -- at least not until you have Uber stuff equipped and a good companion NPC. It's a different kind of game, and is a bit like the often unforgiving Sacred in that regard.

I like TQ but everyone I've played with in recent weeks seems utterly unchallenged if not bored in 90% of the game at Normal and Epic. I don't expect Silverfall to make a big splash, but people wanting something with a bit more element of risk might respond to it.

[Fooey]

I downloaded the demo on Steam and tried to play it, but got really frustrated with the camera pretty quickly and gave up. It seemed to have a system similar to NWN2 where you hold the middle mouse button to rotate the view, but for me it was too laggy and overdone, so like when I was trying to adjust view left, I would get no response at first then it would kick in with a bit of a lag and swing the view much farther than I wanted. This made playing from a sort of WoW-like behind the character view basically impossible for me, and I really didn't like the fully pulled back view, since the camera tilted way back to be basically top down when you scrolled the view out, so I couldn't see beyond my immediate surroundings. I couldn't seem to make sense of the minimap either. I don't know what I was doing wrong, but I had great difficulty getting my character moving in the direction of the quest arrows on the map. I basically ended up running around in circles until I happened to be moving in the right direction.

[Slainte Mhath]

So it's like a really pretty Diablo where everyone is a Necromancer (in that they get minions), you can respec your character and it's open ended like Oblivion?

I'm thinking this may be my next purchase. Not that I have time, but it'll look real nice sitting on my desk...

[stusser]

Anyone buy it? Any good?

[Matt Perkins]

I downloaded the demo on Steam and tried to play it, but got really frustrated with the camera pretty quickly and gave up.
Yeah, the camera in the demo killed it for me in about 5 minutes. It was locked in behind you and you could move it around, etc. It destroyed any interest I had in the game.

[Geo]

For the more patient/masochistic, once you understand the screwy mini map directional arrow is showing your camera view, not the direction you're walking in, it will almost make sense. I do not defend it in any way, shape or form though -- it's needlessly confusing if not downright baffling. Initially I often found myself moving completely in the wrong direction from where I wanted to because of the above mini map confusion. I think in one interview the dev's even brag about its rotable camera, which I think is a loaded thing to brag about. :p

I do think that all the people who whined at Titan Quest's release for a "rotate-every-which-way-camera" know not how frustrating a rotatable camera can be if it isn't designed perfectly. I've battled poorly designed map rotation in practically every 3-D RTS I ever played, for example

However, I'm all for options. If Silverfall had a locked Titan Quest-type view as an Option, that woulda been great. But as someone who did a big fan site on the last big Diablo clone (Darkstone), I can tell you French games just like to do weird things...

FWIW, Play magazine has a short, mostly unenthusiastic review (6/10), with the complaints more about the camera controls, and lack of some 'quality of life' features that are prevalent in Diablo II, Titan Quest, heck probably even Darkstone. :) I still plan to get it, warts and all because I like the look, the combat and the companion NPC stuff. If I have to put up with some crap to get to that, I'll deal with it but I don't blame anybody else for taking a pass.

The latest patch 1.16 attemps to jury-rig in some of the missing 'quality of life' improvements, and perhaps someday it will get up to speed in that regard. It's just, since they Say they were big fans of Diablo II and played Titan Quest, etc. etc. I don't quite understand why they would skip a lot of common features.

[Adam B]

Gah, I hate that I can't really talk about games that I'm reviewing until the review goes online. But I will say that the UI in Silverfall is effing terrible. Seriously.

You can't even remap key commands. Ugh.

[Tom Ohle]

Gah, I hate that I can't really talk about games that I'm reviewing until the review goes online. But I will say that the UI in Silverfall is effing terrible. Seriously.

You can't even remap key commands. Ugh.
That should actually be possible -- just not in-game. There should be an application in the Start menu program group. The only thing, as far as I know, that you can't do is change the actual control scheme.

[Becoming]

They still haven't fixed the keymap thing from the demo? Ugh, let me know when they do and I might buy it.

[unbongwah]

Holy shit, Play published an unenthusiastic review? Dave Halverson's head must've exploded!

[Adam B]

Well, it's not a platformer, so I think it's exempt from Halverson head-asplody.

Also Tom: I messed around with the options app in the start menu, and it's just the graphics stuff. Nothing about keybinds or anything else, it's just resolution and details and vsync etc.

[mutt]

But as someone who did a big fan site on the last big Diablo clone (Darkstone)...
??? Darkstone may be the best of the Diablo clones, but it's hardly the latest. When was that released? Like 1998?

[Robert Sharp]

I hated Darkstone, but yeah it was a long time ago. I think Titan Quest is FAR superior. Hell, Fate is superior.

[Gordon Cameron]

I think Darkstone came out in 1999.

I preferred it to Diablo, personally... that's not saying much, though.

[Geo]

A premature (there's no indication that stores will really have this before maybe March 27-28 at earliest) press release just out: NEW YORK, NY, March 22, 2007 – Atari, Inc. (Nasdaq: ATAR), one of the world’s most recognized brands and leading third-party video game publisher, today announced that Silverfall®, a dynamic 3D action role-playing game (RPG), has arrived at retailers across North America. Developed by Monte Cristo Games, Silverfall is rated T for Teen and is available for the Windows platform at a suggested retail price of $39.95.

Silverfall casts players into a world torn between science and nature, forcing gamers to choose between the two in order to save the principal city from total destruction. The player must take on quests and defeat slews of opponents during the journey through the fascinating world of Nelwë. Two non-playing character (NPC) companions accompany and assist the player throughout the Silverfall adventure. Decisions made during each quest will be key as choices impact storyline, environment and accumulation of skills.

“Engaging, immersive and imaginative, Silverfall is a unique addition to the genre of role-playing games,” said Stephen Baer, senior product manager, Atari, Inc. “Having been among the top five of GameSpot.com’s ‘Top 10 PC games’ list for the last week, Silverfall is certainly a must-have for PC and RPG fans alike.”

Silverfall offers a unique character building system of advancement and equipment that allows for complete customization of characters. Gamers can develop distinctive characters such as scientist troll magicians, elemental elf warriors, or mercantile goblins. Fighting and magic are employed throughout, and vary from melee, ranged, and technical, to light, elemental and dark. Gamers will play through a 25-hour main quest, numerous side quests and two multiplayer modes, player-versus-player and co-operative; and can further extend their experience with the included game editor, allowing would-be level designers to create their own adventures to play alone or with friends.

With four races to choose from, nine skill sets encompassing more than 130 individual skills, over 100 monsters, and advanced 3D graphics, Silverfall replenishes the RPG genre with a memorable hack-and-slash action adventure.

A frustrating, rotatable camera and nonsensical directional icon on the mini-map, along with unmarked NPCs and other confusing bafflements await all in their exciting adventures in Silverfall! OK, OK I made up the last graf but you know it's true...
======================
Darkstone, by long deceased French developer Delphine, came out in summer of 1999. Its most unique features were its 3-D ness (impressive for its era; Diablo II stuck with relatively low-rez 2-D tiles in 2000 and I had a tough time going backwards like that); and allowing you to adventure with two different characters (and equipping their separate inventories as you saw fit), switching between them on the fly. Its rotating camera included an optional "follow mode"; it wasn't a great camera system but compared to Silverfall's it's Citizen Kane. If you hate Citizen Kane then insert an Uwe Boll movie or whatever else your favorite is....

I also ran an EZBoard forum for it that became, for a time, The Place to Be, and the Delphine devs would post there in English. And moderating the board myself makes it easier for me to understand why Tom C. wouldnt' bother even trying to moderate the anarchy that is Quarter to Three. :D

I became an official Prima Guides fan site, and got to post some exclusive strategy guide content from them. That was also as close as I get to being a true Webmaster and HTML Dude (most of which I've forgotten now that the world rotates around Dreamweaver and its ilk). Oh well, enough Darkstone memories...

[Trashcan]

A premature (there's no indication that stores will really have this before maybe March 27-28 at earliest) press release just out: OK, OK I made up the last graf but you know it's true...

Well, I picked it (and Stalker) up today at Best Buy for 39.99 so I guess it's out before the 27-28th =P

[Midnight Son]

Eh, this has corpse runs?

Pass.



Buy insurance from the gnome and you'll appear back in the city with all your loot intact. Fixed!

[Robert Sharp]

Hmmm...I'm very tempted to pick it up. However, I can only get either this or the TQ expansion, and I already know I love TQ. OTOH, Silverfall is a whole new game. I'll get both eventually, of course.

So compared to TQ, is the character customization greater or less in Silverfall?

[Johan O]

Robert, I found that I got slightly more involved in Silverfalls story, but TQ had more interesting skill synergies, monsters and items. TQ was head and shoulders above silverfall in providing different strategies for the main character, though the extras in Silverfall provided some opprtunity for customisation. I haven't tried the TQ expasion so I can't compare how Silverfalls story holds up to that.

[Aeon221]

Sounds a lot like Arcanum in terms of steampunk meets magic. Are there lots of sidequests and whatnot, or is this an RPG on rails kind of thing?

[mutt]

Darkstone, by long deceased French developer Delphine...
Whatever happened to Delphine? They put out some kickass games. I seem to remember they did Alone in the Dark, right?

[Marcus]

Bestbuy is showing this as available today if anyone wants to pick it up.

[Robert Sharp]

I saw it at Wal-Mart this morning, so it's out there.

[Johan O]

Sounds a lot like Arcanum in terms of steampunk meets magic. Are there lots of sidequests and whatnot, or is this an RPG on rails kind of thing?
It is more Diablo then Arcanum. Not sure what count as a lot of sidequests, but there should be enough to double the time to run through the game, I estimate. Most of the ones I found are pretty short and involves traversing terrain and killing stuff.

[Xemu]

Good lord this UI is bad.

I mean, really, really bad.

It's like they couldn't decide whether it should be playable over-the-shoulder (which the engine seems to support) or Diablo style isometric. And instead of making both work, they made neither work. It really is nigh unto totally unplayable.

Which is too bad, because otherwise some stuff there seems moderately interesting. I guess I'll have to wait for Sacred 2 for my next hack and slash RPG fix...

[Gendal]

Good lord this UI is bad.

I mean, really, really bad.

I very much want to disagree with you, but I can't, that's pretty much the same conclusion I came to. Maybe if I put some serious hours into it I might learn to deal with it, but there is just too much else out there worth playing right now to bother. I just could never make myself happy with the camera no matter where I put it. I always felt claustraphobic, and finding the townes folk was a night mare. I heard now they have dots to represent them, but considering how assbackwards the minimap is that's hardly a help.

[Destarius]

Downloaded the demo from Steam only to be slapped with the need to download PhysX drivers.

Plea to developers - Please don't do this. Running and being screwy because my graphic drivers are outdated - ok. Hitting me with new drivers I must go out and get myself - not ok.

On the plus side, not wanting to install drivers *just* for a demo bought me enough time to read some of the negative comments here and uninstall it instead. Back to the Burning Crusade!

[Hugin]

I gave up on this game after about ten minutes. Same complaints as others: Laggy, swimmy, lurching camera, weird movement controls and map, it's just physically frustrating to play.

[txa1265]

Sounds a lot like Arcanum in terms of steampunk meets magic. Are there lots of sidequests and whatnot, or is this an RPG on rails kind of thing?

The idea might be Arcanum-ish, but the implementation isn't. Still, I do like choices that impact something, so that works for me.

Also, despite having put many hours into the game for the preview I did for RPGWatch and now several hours getting back through to ~level 15, I still get lost in the camera-compass duality ... and occasionally die as a result. Insurance is truly your friend ...

[Midnight Son]

Looky here, the camera thing did take some getting used to. Here's what I do: I point the compass the direction I want to go and then click near the center top of the screen. I will then go in the direction I wanted. Kewl game.

[HRose]

I played this for a couple of hours. It isn't exceptional but it isn't even too bad.

I don't understand the popular complaints about the UI. It actually looks like an alpha version of an UI in development (mostly because of the ugly font they use) but even if it is not pretty it's still functional.

What the game lacks in general is the "options". There are NO options in the game. Even when you save the game you just save your progress to your character and that's it. You cannot use different slots, name them and all that is standard today. You just "save". It all feels very bland and simple. No configuration of the UI, no custom controls, nothing at all aside the volume controls. You can basically just start a game, create a new character and save. There's nothing else. And even the character creation lacks options, you have to choose between four faces or so, all looking almost identical.

I really hate when you cannot configure graphic options from inside the game. There's an video option button, but if you click it, it asks you if you want to launch the external application. You say yes and it promptly SHUTS DOWN the game to launch the option app.

The minimap can make you confused and even here an option would have helped a lot. I believe that the main problem is that the map is fixed while you rotate your arrow mark. If you could keep the mark fixed and let the minimap rotate I think it would be much more clearer to navigate.

The second problem with the camera isn't really about the controls, but more about the perception of it. You can basically just rotate the camera and zoom in/out. Nothing crazy, but the problem is that when you zoom in the camera also gets tilted horizontally, so you can see much further away. This gives you the perception that when you zoom back to the most usable view you "miss something", so you feel like zooming in to see further away and then zoom back to have more control in the combat. The perspective when you zoom all the way back (the default view) feels constrictive. It's not *more* constrictive than, say, Titan Quest, but the fact that you can lower the camera and see the line of the horizon makes it feel so.

Instead a problem that is real is the targeting. Targeting sucks because it's really approximate. You are there trying to "grab" your tomb to get back your equipment but you fail to select it and instead select the monster nearby and keep attacking. The same when you fight more than one mobs and are trying to apply DOTs to each. There are many occasions where you need precise targeting and the game fails to deliver it. This gets frustrating.

The engine is decent, same for the graphic. Not everything you see is all that great and well polished, but the style is interesting. The biggest problem here is that it gets stuttery as it streams things into view. The performance isn't all that good and you definitely need a powerful PC, but then there's enough eyecandy.

About the game itself: feels a lot Diablo-like. You start from this outpost made with people escaped from a fallen city, so you go talk to them and they give you some quests. From there you walk through the wilderness and come back to get new quests. No randomly generated maps, but it has a more freeform/seamless world, so you can wander around. It has also night/day cycles.

Three difficulty options. That you can set only from the title screen. On "normal" the game is easily playable. On "hard" the game becomes suddenly really, really tough. This game has "corpse runs". So you die and leave a tomb there with all your equipped objects and have to return to the tomb to get them back. On the other side there's insurance for gold and the game also swarms you with loot, so you usually have plenty of back-up equipment to go recover what you lost. The real problem is that you can die in the middle of a group of monster and then trigger a chain of deaths while you try to recover your things but keep dying there over and over. At "hard" difficulty I spent 15 minutes just fighting a group of mean zombies. I kept dying over and over, disseminating the place with tombs and then getting annoyed by the targeting system that kept me failing and dying again.

The hard part of the combat is the interruption. Since you cannot time your attacks (you just click and hold) it becomes a matter of luck about who interrupts first. If you get lucky you hit and continue to hit, if the monster is lucky he interrupts you and continues to interrupt you till you die (reminds me of Gothic 3, but not to that extreme). Think about when you have 2-3 melee mobs hitting on you with one or two archers in the back and you can imagine how it's easy to die. A fast weapon helps, and it also seems that the game is STRONGLY biased toward ranged attacks (bows or magic). There's also this terrible AI code that is one of the ugliest problems I noticed: very often ranged mobs sit behind a tree or a rock, keeping shooting at the obstacle without caring to check Line of Sight on you. It feels quite lame.

The rest of the game structure is really close to Diablo 2. You have the usual talent tree. Switch between melee and ranged similarly to Dungeon Siege. There are no classes, you just "ding" and allocate your points to the skills you want, so you can make all sort of hybrids and you can even respec fully by paying gold.

I don't have enough experience to say if the loot system holds ground compared to Diablo 2 (that is its most preeminent feature), randomness, variety, but it seems similar. You get all sort of hand blades and there seem a good variety of looks and different models. I dig the graphical customization and from what I've seen it's done well in this game. I also like the weird setting and from one of the first quests I completed I got a big ass thing that can only be described as a mix of a chainsaw, a huge shuriken and an axe. I like :)

So it's at least vaguely original and steampunk. But still a pure Diablo-clone.

The other interesting aspect is the "party". I think you can go around with up to other two guys. You don't get control over them (which is actually good or the game would become too messy) but you can tell them to just heal, heal and attack or just attack. It's simple but it seems to work well. You cannot specialize their skills but you control their equipment.

Quests and story. The average. Aside of the weird setting there's nothing new with the quests. You mostly move through the wilderness to kill "x" monsters or recover objects. It's Diablo 2 again with more quests, which is good. There's also another "feature" about going either "tech" or "nature", both with their own perks. For example the chainsaw/shuriken/axe thing I got required a certain tech bias. And I also think that depending on the bias you choose the city that will be rebuilt over time will look either technological or tribal.

The combat. I described it above for the most part. The animations aren't ugly but overall the game feels a bit cheap and unpolished. The sounds are terrible, especially in combat and the action is a chaotic mess. There's this trend that seems shared between european developers to exaggerate with particle effects (Paraworld had a similar problem), they not only make the combat very confused, but also quite laggy. So while Diablo 2 was fun because you fought against legions of monsters, I hope to never see legions of monster here, because with an handful the game gets already quite confused and laggy.

Music and sounds. As I said the sounds are terrible and also get cut off continuously (and same for animations that are both very fluid and jerky). Instead the music is awesome and has that Medievil/Nightmare Before Christmas kind of mood.

And that's pretty much it. Ugly interface, but functional, complete lack of any options or configurations, a cheap/rushed/unpolished feel overall, a fairly pretty engine with interesting and personal graphic style, but that gets laggy during combat and stuttery while you walk around.

But even if it is "rough" and not all that carefully crafted, it seems still functional and fairly fun. No huge problems beside some UI quirks like the imprecise targeting and a demanding engine.

Overall I'd give it a "7". But it really depends on the longevity. If the game doesn't last long or gets boring then it wouldn't be so good, while if it's long and keeps things interesting it would definitely move toward a worthy game.

I'm done.

[Skipper]

HRose I picked this up at Target over the weekend. After multiple hours playing I'd agree with everything you said here. If I could add on to your review...

Camera: The camera FOV needs to be tilted up about 15-20 degrees. What you get is top down ad wide angle, almost straight forward at a narrow angle, and a slew in between that doesn't give what you want from either. By tilting the camera up a few degrees the top down would become something more like Titan Quest or Diablo'ish. There also needs to be a camera lock to hold it in position once you like where it's at. This would prevent the "wait I'm running opposite of the camera" that happens quite a bit.

Minimap and game map: The minimap sucks. At higher resolutions you can barely see the dots on the map, there appears to be no zoom. Finding your way on the map is a tough task since the arrow uses the cameras point of view. What this means is that, since you can't lock the camera, you are constantly trying to center the camera to where you are looking, then turning you (and the camera) to line up with where you want to go. No problem you think, I'll just use the full map. Not so fast. It offers even less detail, no mark of any quests or characters, no way to "see through it" or overlay mode, in a sense it's nearly worthless. You can click on it to travel but only to a mark on the map. So far I've only seen the one for the village.

Targeting: Any game dev that uses the same color to represent both friendlies and enemies on hover should be shot. Period, the end. The minimap, at least if you can see it, will give you the correct color of what you are looking at. Enemies also spawn at points you see on the map. Four dots = four enemies will spawn there when you walk up. It kind of turns the quest game into a "bounce between groups of less dots" type of game than one of fun exploration like Diablo or Titan Quest.

Combat: Is WAY skewed toward magic. And tough. This isn't Mama's easy-Diablo clone. This is much harder at default level than I felt with Titan Quest in some points on it's hardest mode. Hand-to-hand means any weapon related combat in this game, not "unarmed." And this mode can be tough due to interrupted swings, blocks, etc. None of which are directly controlled by you. You get the basic hold and keep swinging, or various right click and use power ability swings (or spells.) Ranged gets a little easier but suffers from ... wait for it ... range issues. The typical bow shoots about as far as it would if an eight year old was drawing the string back. Enter magic to the rescue. Your basic power free bolts don't require any weapon type and will go about a screen or two away. Not to mention the spell abilities that do use power are stronger then their combat only equivalents. This game is in dire need of balance. If you love magic this is YOUR game.

My summary:
I'll continue playing this game because it has that feel of a console game you rented for the weekend and you kind of feel obligated to finish it out. It's not a great game. It's a playable and somewhat fun game though. With polish (read: game changing patches) it could be moved into the great game category. But I'm not holding my breath for that, and as it stands I'll take this game for what it is. A lower grade Diablo clone with a different style of art and a unique twist on classes and nature vs. technology.

[Myth]

HRose and Skipper,

Thanks for the detailed comments on the game. Since I prefer melee over magic, it looks like I will be taking a pass on this, as well as for the wonkey controls and general lack of polish.

HRose, since you mentioned 'iffy' performance I am curious what your system specs are.

May still try the demo on Steam though.

[txa1265]

Hmmm ... thanks for that on the magic vs. melee - I prefer magic, so hadn't noticed that bias. When going from preview to retail I restarted as magic user again ...

[HRose]

Camera: The camera FOV needs to be tilted up about 15-20 degrees. What you get is top down ad wide angle, almost straight forward at a narrow angle, and a slew in between that doesn't give what you want from either. By tilting the camera up a few degrees the top down would become something more like Titan Quest or Diablo'ish.
When you die and get warped back to town you actually get a slightly more tilted camera that is IMPOSSIBLE to get by normal means. Yeah, this begs for more options and it's kind of fun that in their official screenshots they often use tilted degrees that are impossible to use in the actual game.

Targeting: Any game dev that uses the same color to represent both friendlies and enemies on hover should be shot. Period, the end.
They could have also used contextual mouse pointers changing shape when you hover on a monster. Instead the mouse pointer NEVER changed.

The minimap, at least if you can see it, will give you the correct color of what you are looking at. Enemies also spawn at points you see on the map. Four dots = four enemies will spawn there when you walk up. It kind of turns the quest game into a "bounce between groups of less dots" type of game than one of fun exploration like Diablo or Titan Quest.
True, I found myself just looking at the mini-map while walking around and dodging mobs more than actually exploring. This was a bad design move overall. On the other side the fact that you can lower the view and see further away would have made the game completely unplayable without the dots.

Combat: Is WAY skewed toward magic. And tough. This isn't Mama's easy-Diablo clone. This is much harder at default level than I felt with Titan Quest in some points on it's hardest mode.
Yeah, I usually play games toward the hard difficulty because that's often what I feel as the standard and most playable one. Here I'm still trying to see if "hard" is even playable. I keep dying every two minutes to the simplest groups of zombies. Maybe also because I'm still trying to force my way as a melee fighter with the game not really helping me.

Ranged gets a little easier but suffers from ... wait for it ... range issues. The typical bow shoots about as far as it would if an eight year old was drawing the string back.
I noticed this too, shooting arrows and falling short at the feet of a monster. On the other side I thought this was balanced by the fact that mobs have really small aggro radii, so you can walk very close to them without getting noticed. It's lame but I felt it somewhat compensated the lack of range.

[Nyx]

HRose and Skipper,

Thanks for the detailed comments on the game. Since I prefer melee over magic, it looks like I will be taking a pass on this, as well as for the wonkey controls and general lack of polish.

HRose, since you mentioned 'iffy' performance I am curious what your system specs are.

May still try the demo on Steam though.

From what I've read on other game sites melee is pretty powerful in it's own right. Maybe even overpowered. Go nature path towards Lycan

[Geo]

I wouldn't really base melee impressions on the early going -- it's tough, it's nasty, I got my head pounded into the ground repeatedly. Once I was up to maybe level 8-9-10 in the demo and had the first companion (he can frost nova entire groups repeatedly, very helpful) I felt like a worldbeater, but by then the demo mobs had reached a level "cap" and there weren't any more doable quests in the demo.

As for all the other observations, it's most definitely a very screwy, "what were they thinking" kind of game in terms of the UI, camera and most "quality of life" features. I wouldn't sign up knowing that unless something else about the game really appeals to you. They have done 3 patches since the French release, hopefully they will keep improving it though I can't help thinking a public beta test of some sort would've caught all this stuff early.

[Skipper]

Nyx and Geo, good idea. I'll go back to my combat guy and take him a bit further. He's level 10 now though but without the healer companion. But I can't begin to describe how many times I trained to guards with a sliver of life waiting for the potion to kick in from it's delay effect.

Contrast this to the elementalist I played, who can literally kill 2-3 before they get to him (he can strike from extreme range) and when they do swarm, he can freeze (single or group), run back out of range, and repeat.

My Conan type felt like quite the wussy by comparison. Lol.

I have one ranged character too but he also suffers from level 9 or 10 syndrome. Though I don't usually play magic based characters I definitely chose the path of least resistance in this game.

[Midnight Son]

The first companion will heal you and use ice spells to freeze enemies in place. Very nice.

[HRose]

I've completely given up trying to play the game on "difficult" difficulty. So I'm going back to normal and see if I can stay alive for more than 2 minutes...

[Geo]

I'll look for this today. I think one Gamestop/EB near me seems to have it but nobody else. Yeah the game (based on demo anyway) is tough. I'd probably just play it on easy or normal, or wait until a few of us have it -- maybe we can get a Quarter2Three gaming night going even.

I'm not totally sure I understand it fully, but my reading was you can play the full campaign (including "main quests") cooperatively, or just the side quests if you want. I'm not sure if there are different modes. Maybe someone with the manual handy can explain that?

[Myth]

Downloaded and tried the demo from Steam last night, and will definately be picking up the full version on my way home tonight at EB.

While the camera is different and the its elasticity a little off, I took me all of 10 minutes to become acustomed to it. For general navigation I keep the camera angle lower in a pseudo 3rd person mode, keep the left mouse button clicked to move and "steer" with mouse by moving it right and left, occsionally looking at the mini map to check my waypoints and general headings. The environments have enough variation though that you can find your way around by looking at the landscape, like any 1st or third person game.

For combat, I use a similar view and pan the camera around to the side with the arrow keys and zoom in and out with the mouse wheel.

The interface is crude but functional. The cell shading and character animations are awesome, and the environments are interesting to explore. Combat is a engaging because you can zoom and pan wherever you want to get a good look at the action, that is enhanced by the great effects and physics. Flying body parts for the win.

No problems so far running the game on high @ 1280 x 960 or med @1440x 900 on a AMD 3800 X2, 7600 GT and 2 gigs of ram.

[EDIT]

I think if people are getting poor or inconsistent frame rates it would probably make the camera seem worse than it is.

Also, I find the character, creature and NPC animations are quite reminiscent of the work Ralph Bakshi did on 'Fire and Ice', 'American Pop', and the 'Lord of the Rings' except much better looking and in 3d. Very cool indeed.

[Skipper]

Downloaded and tried the demo from Steam last night, and will definately be picking up the full version on my way home tonight at EB.

While the camera is different and the its elasticity a little off, I took me all of 10 minutes to become acustomed to it. For general navigation I keep the camera angle lower in a pseudo 3rd person mode, keep the left mouse button clicked to move and "steer" with mouse by moving it right and left, occsionally looking at the mini map to check my waypoints and general headings. The environments have enough variation though that you can find your way around by looking at the landscape, like any 1st or third person game.

For combat, I use a similar view and pan the camera around to the side with the arrow keys and zoom in and out with the mouse wheel.

I do about the same thing you described. I "explore" in zoomed in mode with is a nearly 3rd person view. I'll attack from range in this view as well, since your line of sight is greatly increased with the camera view. Once they close I zoom out so i can see around me better. Mostly I've learned to zoom out because there are no keyboard movement commands so when you're zoomed in it's hard to click behind you to run away. And that is my problem with the camera in a nutshell. If nothing else, even if they can't figure out a way to patch the camera a bit, at least give us a camera lock.

[Desslock]

I've almost played through the game. For those of you saying the game is "tough"...that's true, but only at the beginning. Once you have companions, and some decent spell-casting (or even archery) skills, the game is too easy, if anything. Cold spells are vastly overpowered, and archery has some good "crowd control" skills as well (but you'll have to use them yourself, not rely on companions for that).

I probably died 2 dozen times clearing out the first swamp area (in part hindered by an SLI problem my build had, which killed the framerate) - then I got companions and upped cold magic skills -- I think I've died twice through the rest of the game, and those occasions were only due to laziness.

The UI is by far the game's biggest problem -- I agree with what others have stated, which is that it's best played zoomed out, as it's otherwise too frustrating to try to move away from opponents. But otherwise I kind of like the game, and really like the monster designs/art/personality.

[HRose]

Mostly I've learned to zoom out because there are no keyboard movement commands so when you're zoomed in it's hard to click behind you to run away.
I don't even see how the game is PLAYABLE when zoomed close.

The targeting system makes you select whatever is nearest to the camera. If you have one companion then its "clickable area" would cover most of the screen. This means that you would just trigger dialogue with the companion every time you try to click to move. To not even say what could happen during combat.

The targeting system is the hugest problem, it's like every object has a big sphere around it, and whatever is closer to the camera will completely cover whatever is in the back.

[stusser]

Why are you playing this when shivering isles is out? Wait for a patch, or just preemptively toss it back to le francoise pit du bad games from whence it came.

[HRose]

Well, it seems that Europe has a pool of talents as interesting as both western and eastern industry. But for some reason these projects don't go all the way through and fall on their faces.

There's a potential that should be grown.

[stusser]

I'm all for supporting RPGs, if they're good. But it sounds like this one is two patches short of worthwhile.

[Midnight Son]

It's not that bad at all. It's got some personality and is a lot of fun. I stayed with it and figured out the interface.

[Dhruin]

I don't know why I grabbed this (impulse buy on Steam) but it's surprisingly compelling. The interface has some oddities but it hasn't really been a problem for me for far. It's got personality and the action/RPG model is pretty solid.

[Bee]

I don't know why I grabbed this (impulse buy on Steam) but it's surprisingly compelling. The interface has some oddities but it hasn't really been a problem for me for far. It's got personality and the action/RPG model is pretty solid.

That's pretty much my opinion so far as well. I was expecting a horrible interface based on comments here, but it really hasn't been problematic for me. I do wish I could change the camera angle though.

[txa1265]

That's pretty much my opinion so far as well. I was expecting a horrible interface based on comments here, but it really hasn't been problematic for me. I do wish I could change the camera angle though.

Check back with us after a couple dozen hours or so ...

[Matt Perkins]

Check back with us after a couple dozen hours or so ...
I'd be a lot more interested if I could change the camera angle... the demo almost made queezy after playing it for a few minutes. The spin was something evil.

[Shadari]

How does this interface compare with NWN2's?

[Skipper]

How does this interface compare with NWN2's?

Just as wonky and camera challenged, with a more stylized art feel to it. A different game entirely but a strikingly similar reaction from me when I played both.

"There's a good game here if I can just get used to this."

[Desslock]

I found the camera MUCH more annoying than in NWN2, because there's no movement keys, so when you're down at ground level, you have no way to even move since it's difficult to click on open ground without the game concluding you want to talk to a party member.

I found the graphics much more interesting than NWN2's though. Gameplay wise they have very little in common - Silverfall is much more like a 3D version of Sacred.

[maraA]

My first impression of the game? Graphics weren't as polished like Titan Quest /WoW/Guild Wars. Like someone said, its a bit like Sacred/Divinity/DoAC to some extent.

The UI was a bit unwieldy, esp since I came into the game fresh from killing Hades and then Cooch in Titan Quest. It took me a while to figure out how to actually control my character, and my wrist ached from all the mouse clicking after that ! :P The camera controls were better for me than playing Oblivion (I hated the camera controls there)....kinda like NWN2. Not the best, but manageable.

Quest-wise, I didnt find it really compelling..but since my toon is just like lvl 15, I might need more time to get into the game.

That said, I find it quite interesting that I should be technologically driven in the game than being a tree hugger! :P (this is based on your response to the different quests given to you).

[HRose]

The camera controls were better for me than playing Oblivion (I hated the camera controls there)
Huh? First person camera giving problems?

[maraA]

Huh? First person camera giving problems?

More like headaches. :P

I started playing Oblivion at about the same time as my friend. When we both stopped playing..he had completed the game as a lvl 30+ battlemage, and there I was, as a lvl 12 spellbreaker, still picking locks in town. :(

Its a pity...cos Oblivion is a pretty interesting game..and with Shivering Isles coming out, I'm pretty sure that it will enhance the gameplay more. Oh well :(

[KieronGillen]

They might have changed it since last I played, or I might remember wrong,
but I seem to recall that despeccing was limited somehow. Anyway, respeccing
is definitely not something new to CRPGs :)

It was originally like you say, but they changed it to an even more free system down the line. You can change secondaries by spending a chunk of cash now too. Only thing sacrosanct is your main class.

KG

[Desslock]

That said, I find it quite interesting that I should be technologically driven in the game than being a tree hugger! :P (this is based on your response to the different quests given to you).

If you want to favour one side or the other, don't make the mistake I did and start off doing quests for both sides, figuring eventually you can favour just one - there are actually very few opportunities to choose one side or the other (and none after the first half of the game), and if you waste them, you'll never get into the high % favour with one side, which you need for the best equipment, etc.

Also, anyone NOT complaining about the controls obviously hasnt gotten to the late game, when they get really annoying (they're annoying in the initial swamp areas, get better in the "open air" areas because there are less foliage/obstructions, and then get really annoying again in the labyrinthian mountains)