Chinese politician wins seat in North Ireland

[Dirt]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070309/ap_on_re_eu/nireland_chinese_winner

I didn't think North Irish were so racist. And "culture of segregation"? In a first world country? Wow. At least her election is a step in the right direction.

[extarbags]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070309/ap_on_re_eu/nireland_chinese_winner

I didn't think North Irish were so racist. And "culture of segregation"? In a first world country? Wow.

Dude, some places in America aren't much better.

[Mike O'Malley]

You're boggled at the concept of a "culture of segregation" in IRELAND?
Northern Ireland's creation is a sterling example of segregation in action.
It's Belfast, for Pete's sake.

[Rimbo]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070309/ap_on_re_eu/nireland_chinese_winner

I didn't think North Irish were so racist. And "culture of segregation"? In a first world country? Wow. At least her election is a step in the right direction.

The entire concept that racism is "bad" is pretty much exclusive to this hemisphere, largely because the entire population of North and South America is made up of mongrels.

[Dirt]

We need to send Kalle there armed with his self-righteous sarcasm.

[Kalle]

We need to send Kalle there armed with his self-righteous sarcasm.

Why, are you going to Ireland armed with your self-righteous racism?

[Tim Partlett]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070309/ap_on_re_eu/nireland_chinese_winner

I didn't think North Irish were so racist. And "culture of segregation"? In a first world country? Wow. At least her election is a step in the right direction.

Do you understand what they mean by a culture of segregation in Northern Ireland? It's not racism, it's sectarianism. It's between Catholics and Protestants, not Chinese and Irish. It's also not enforced. Although racism is relatively bad in Belfast, it's not like they are practicing Apartheid there.

[shift6]

Why, are you going to Ireland armed with your self-righteous racism?
You could probably torrent and burn a copy without anyone knowing.

[extarbags]

The entire concept that racism is "bad" is pretty much exclusive to this hemisphere, largely because the entire population of North and South America is made up of mongrels.

whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat

[Orinoco]

Bah, that's nothing! Now when you see a Irishman elected to political position in China - that would be worth talking about!

[Bullhajj]

How much longer before the Chinese Lawyer drops in here to shine some humor on this thread.

[tromik]

Who calls it "North Ireland?" Seriously? It's Northern Ireland.

[Ben]

whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat

Eh, he's got something of a point. Racism isn't seen as a social problem in many Asian or African countries, it's simply accepted that ethnic group X hates ethnic group Y.


Dude, some places in America aren't much better.

whaaaaaaaaaaaaat? God I hate this shit. America is the least racist country on Earth.

[Henry Wilson]

whaaaaaaaaaaaaat? God I hate this shit. America is the least racist country on Earth.

Actually that's probably Brazil, or if certain downmarket segments of the film industry are to be believed, Sweden.

[Kunikos]

Actually that's probably Brazil, or if certain downmarket segments of the film industry are to be believed, Sweden.

Swedes are pretty racist against the indigenous peoples in Lappland, IIRC.

[Anders Hallin]

I think that's a very small problem compared to racism against romani and immigrants.
Maybe that's just because there are so few people up there anyway.
Though our history is of course full of oppression of them.

[Kalle]

Swedes are pretty racist against the indigenous peoples in Lappland, IIRC.

We are? Sweden is by no means an oasis of racial harmony but the Sami are hardly the ones getting the short end of the stick. What does spark conflict is their hunting, fishing and reindeer herding priviliges which tend to be unpopular among non-Sami residents up north but it's not exactly a racial thing.

[Nellie]

America is the least racist country on Earth.

I hope that was an attempt to be amusing.

[Raife]

I hope that was an attempt to be amusing.

Quiet, we saved your asses in World War II.

[Dirt]

Bah, that's nothing! Now when you see a Irishman elected to political position in China - that would be worth talking about!
No Irish, but a few Jews.

[Dirt]

We are? Sweden is by no means an oasis of racial harmony but the Sami are hardly the ones getting the short end of the stick. What does spark conflict is their hunting, fishing and reindeer herding priviliges which tend to be unpopular among non-Sami residents up north but it's not exactly a racial thing.
Racism often occurs as a result of changes in the economy. And by that I mean cheap labour. The Chinese were largely accepted in USA culture when they first started arriving in small numbers. Many Chinese men married white women. It wasn't until large numbers of Chinese started coming to the United States and taking the jobs of the caucasians that were already here that the Chinese began to be persecuted. The same is happening to the Mexicans right now in the USA.

[Ben]

I hope that was an attempt to be amusing.

What multicultural country has better race relations?

[AaronSofaer]

To be honest, I've found where I lived in the US to be so un-racist that it was a huge shock moving to Israel.

I admit that many parts of the US are not quite up there, but I grew up with blacks, whites, Asians, people from just about every part of the world. And I barely even noticed what color their skin was, or where they were from.

Israel, on the other hand, has a huge problem with racism against whatever racial group is making Aliyah in any given year. Right now, it seems to be targetted against Ethiopians. It's sickening.

[Kalle]

Racism often occurs as a result of changes in the economy. And by that I mean cheap labour. The Chinese were largely accepted in USA culture when they first started arriving in small numbers. Many Chinese men married white women. It wasn't until large numbers of Chinese started coming to the United States and taking the jobs of the caucasians that were already here that the Chinese began to be persecuted. The same is happening to the Mexicans right now in the USA.


While interesting, none of this is in any way relevant to the situation of the Sami in Sweden. They are not immigrants, they're a small group of natives who have inhabited the northernmost parts of the country since ~500AD. They have been taxed by the Swedish state since the mid 16th century, and since their lands have historically been considered undesirable and/or uninhabitable by civilised people they've been left alone save for missionary work for the most part. It has rarely made any economic sense to oppress them. The rise of nationalism and the later pre-war racial biologism spawned serious attempts to destroy their culture so they could be incorporated into swedish society. This was not successful, thankfully, but did severely damage their community. Since the 70's they have been pushing for, and slowly been granted, the rights to hunt, fish and herd reindeer on their traditional grounds. These rights cause conflict when they clash with those of the nominal owner of these lands.

Now, I live about as far away from the region as is physically possible without leaving the country so I have no personal experience but as far as I understand it the Sami are not being discriminated against, officially or unofficially, in any way whatsoever. The people whose interests they are coming into conflict with make up an even smaller group than they do , namely land owners who don't want other people hunting in their woods/fishing in their lakes/etc.

[Tim Partlett]

What multicultural country has better race relations?

Where have you ever been outside the US, Ben?

Try New Zealand. It has the most ethnically representative government in the world. That's at least a vaguely useful measure of race relations.

[Phil_Stein]

What is the land used for in northern Sweden, by non-Sami? It seems like it would have little economic value other than possibly for timber rights and whatever minerals there are. Not that those are worthless, but I'm just curious about it.

[Jojo]

What multicultural country has better race relations?
The US is such a culturally segregated country its quite depressing. Race relations appears to mean "you stay in your area and don't come near mine, and I will do the same". There is no melting pot, its more like one of those TV dinners with separate compartments for each ingredient. Each ethnicity is scared of the other for varying reasons and they rarely mix. Its sad.

[Coca Cola Zero]

The US is such a culturally segregated country its quite depressing. Race relations appears to mean "you stay in your area and don't come near mine, and I will do the same". There is no melting pot, its more like one of those TV dinners with separate compartments for each ingredient. Each ethnicity is scared of the other for varying reasons and they rarely mix. Its sad.

And this is unlike which other country?

[Jojo]

And this is unlike which other country?
Well its certainly unlike the UK, where I used to live. I'm not claiming the UK is perfect, or has eradicated racism or anything crazy, but it was definitely much more integrated than it is here in the US from my experience of LA. Integration is good IMHO.

[Kalle]

What is the land used for in northern Sweden, by non-Sami? It seems like it would have little economic value other than possibly for timber rights and whatever minerals there are. Not that those are worthless, but I'm just curious about it.

There isn't any other use really, save possibly tourism, and neither business is really affected by the Sami rights. I guess grazing rights for the reindeer is another use, but that business is exclusively Sami.

Hunting and fishing is the major issue. Both have little economic value but most people who live up north hunt or fish and any percieved injustice gets them riled up. What's interesting is that these hunting and fishing rights are tied to Sami herding communities. Roughly half the Swedish Sami population has no association with the reindeer herders and don't get the hunting and fishing priviliges either. They aren't any happier about it than the native Swedes.

[Anders Hallin]

Well, maybe some argument could be made that Swedes moved in and exploited a natural resource they lived on, resulting in this:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3694204.stm
Of course, I don't know if any Sami are actually saying that they got swed on that deal.

[BennyProfane]

"It's only water in a stranger's tears"

[shift6]

...their lands have historically been considered undesirable and/or uninhabitable by civilised people...

...but as far as I understand it the Sami are not being discriminated against, officially or unofficially, in any way whatsoever.
Emphasis mine. Here we would call that latent racism. I don't mean that as a troll and I'm not saying you are a racist. But US sensitivity to this stuff is so hyper-tuned, that even slight remarks like this are considered not discriminatory, but perhaps racist.

I think it's difficult to say what is or isn't in the US overall, though. Clearly there are areas which are much more and much less racially tense, diverse, divided, hostile, or whatever other adjective you like.

[Kalle]

I was speaking from a historical perspective and I didn't feel the need to put citation marks around the word. No one living today would consider the thought that the Sami need civilising as anything but absurd.

I'd be surprised if there are any hypersensitive people around P&R, this place isn't exactly friendly to their sort.

[wisefool]

Bah, that's nothing! Now when you see a Irishman elected to political position in China - that would be worth talking about!

When you see ANYBODY get elected to a political position in China - that would be worth talking about.

Edit:

I started playing EQ2 a couple of months ago and joined a decent guild. One Finn was saying he preferred the US servers "because EU people behave badly". I thought it was a translation problem, but he reassured us he meant the society as a whole.

I don't think he's seen how the kids act around the US.

[dermot]

What you have to remember when you talk about non-white representation in Ireland (Northern and Republic of) is that it was, until recently, a place that people emigrated from and that not many people immigrated to. It makes sense therefore that it is currently unusual for non-whites to feature in the Irish political landscape but it should become more normal over time. Which isn't to say that there is no racism in Ireland because sadly there is.

Incidentally, an Indian doctor was returned to parliament in the Republic in the last few elections so it's not completely unheard of.

[Anders Hallin]

In fairness to Dirt et al, though, I probably am a racist, why else wouldn't I like her:
http://goto.glocalnet.net/druv/nyamko.jpg

[Kalle]

She needs civilising Anders.

[Moore]

What multicultural country has better race relations?

Canada?