RPG character creation.

[Brendan]

So I've been revisiting Mega Traveller 2 and once again I'm unbelievably impressed with the character creation system. For those of you who have never had the opportunity to play this little gem I will explain it to you.

You have your basic stats (str, int, etc.) and skills. Stats are randomly rolled so you roll until you get the stats you think appropriate to the character you would like to play. You then chooose a homeworld and then you choose a career. During your career based on your stats you will get a chance at promotion and as you get promoted and choose your career path and at certain points in your career you will gain opportunities to develop your skills.

At this point you can choose to carry on developing your skills but the longer you spend in your career the lower your strength and endurance based stats get because of age.

It is a kickass system that really sets the stage for some great role playing.

I'd like to know if there are any other obscure RPG's out there that try something different with character creation.

[BobJustBob]

Sounds just like Darklands' character creation system.

[Hetzer]

hmmm do you ,mean now pen and paper or pc?

[Brendan]

hmmm do you ,mean now pen and paper or pc?

Let's talk PC or even console for now.

[jeffd]

Random chargen pretty much objectively sucks. :P Though it sounds like this is ameliorated by "keep rolling until you have what you like." If that's the case why not just allow a pointbuy system.

Burning Wheel has an awesome chargen system. It's based around "lifepaths" which are short (one to two year) slices of your character's background. Each lifepath will adjust your stats, give you some skills, and maybe some little abilities. They're also set up in a sort of branching structure where each lifepath will allow you to follow up with others. Other games have done this (Cyberpunk, and Fading Suns did it kind of) but Burning Wheel (and the sci-fi version Burning Empires) has done it the best.

Other cool chargen systems?

- Dogs in the Vineyard: It's got stats, but everything else beyond that is totally user defined. You can have "In love with Mary Sue" as one of your stats. Any time you're in a situation where your love for Mary Sue is applicable you can bring in that stat as a bonus.
- The Riddle of Steel: Pretty normal chargen (pointbuy attributes and skills) until you get to "Spiritual Attributes," which are your characters beliefs and motivations. They're totally rad - they go up by roleplaying (for instance if I have a SA of Love: Mary Sue I can raise it simply by roleplaying my love for her) and can then be used whenever applicable (so if Mary Sue was in danger and I've got Love: Mary Sue at 5 I can add 5 dice to EVERY roll while she's in danger)

[Aeon221]

You have your basic stats (str, int, etc.) and skills. Stats are randomly rolled so you roll until you get the stats you think appropriate to the character you would like to play.

I hate random roll systems. I'll roll until I get exactly what I want, so just give me a point purchase system and let me do it myself.

[jeffd]

Whoops sorry Brendan - your "console/PC only" post wasn't up when I posted. SRRIES!

[EvilIdler]

Don't forget that the Megatraveller character system is *hardcore*. It's perfectly
possibly to reach a point in your career where you step on a landmine and die.
Yep, you don't get to play :)

I really like one alternate way of creating characters: You describe the character's
talents, and the GM decides what the skills are. Works best in DIY systems
like FUDGE. But on computers, that's clearly not an option (and might not be
for another aeon ;), so a pointbuy system is really one of the best. The other
type might be to pick two or three strong stats and boost them, like in TES games,
but that's really a variation on point-buy.

[Marcus]

Random chargen pretty much objectively sucks. :P Though it sounds like this is ameliorated by "keep rolling until you have what you like." If that's the case why not just allow a pointbuy system.

Yeah when I was reading that part I was thinking the exact same thing. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to do it like that if you let the player have unlimted rolls.

[Brendan]

I might be a bit odd in that I like the randomness. You can reroll fir eternity but I enjoy having to make the decision wheher to keep a likely looking character or roll a few more times just incase something better comes along, but then there is always the possiblity of not getting anything that suitable for your character in the next few dozen rolls.

[Sarkus]

So I've been revisiting Mega Traveller 2 and once again I'm unbelievably impressed with the character creation system. For those of you who have never had the opportunity to play this little gem I will explain it to you.

You have your basic stats (str, int, etc.) and skills. Stats are randomly rolled so you roll until you get the stats you think appropriate to the character you would like to play. You then chooose a homeworld and then you choose a career. During your career based on your stats you will get a chance at promotion and as you get promoted and choose your career path and at certain points in your career you will gain opportunities to develop your skills.

At this point you can choose to carry on developing your skills but the longer you spend in your career the lower your strength and endurance based stats get because of age.

It is a kickass system that really sets the stage for some great role playing.

I'd like to know if there are any other obscure RPG's out there that try something different with character creation.

All the GDW (old RPG/Wargame company that no longer exists) games of that period used that system. You see it in Twilight:2000 and Megatraveler, as well as others. Twilight: 2000 was released as a CRPG as well.

I really didn't like it that much because you either ended up with someone with poor skills or someone with poor physical stats. There didn't seem any way to create the admittedly rare "perfect" character. Since the whole idea behind most RPG's is that you are somewhat special compared to the average person, a system that didn't allow a special person seemed very odd.

[Brendan]

I really didn't like it that much because you either ended up with someone with poor skills or someone with poor physical stats. There didn't seem any way to create the admittedly rare "perfect" character. Since the whole idea behind most RPG's is that you are somewhat special compared to the average person, a system that didn't allow a special person seemed very odd.

But don't you see, that is what makes the system great. You really do have to put some thought into the character development process. Finding that perfect balance is an artform. I also like the idea of ordinary characters doing extra ordinary things. It is a different approach to role playing that for some reason works for me.

Creating the detailed history of your character when you create it adds a great amount of depth to the game.

But now I'm starting to sound like a drooling fanboy so I'll shut up for now.

[Mike Hussey]

The old joke about Traveller was that the character creation system was more interesting than the game.

[bloo]

The old joke about Traveller was that the character creation system was more interesting than the game.

It's not so much a joke. Originally, Traveller was a system without content. There was no setting or background. That was for the GM to determine, and there was even a stab at letting you play without a GM.

I'm a big fan of the career-based chargen system. Besides giving a character some history, different careers essentially opened up access to different skills and potential benefits.

The Traveller chargen idea basically built in the idea that as an intersteller traveller in your past career, your life will have been hazardous to one degree or another and consequently, your stats will suffer as you age. Sure, you might be able to say in the Scouts for 40 years, almost guaranteeing you a Scout Ship on muster out. But you will have to make harder and harder rolls to avoid losing points on stats. This assumption has more or less significance depending on which version of Traveller you're playing, particularly with regard to the Task Resolution system, which varies between them and has often been tweaked by avid players). In some, the 'talented novice' (high stats, low skills) can beat anyone at anything unless the GM just says, "No, Medic-2 does not let you do open heart surgery on a low-G, tainted atmosphere planet in the middle of desert," which is reasonable, but players are often whiny bitches.

Stats are randomly rolled so you roll until you get the stats you think appropriate to the character you would like to play.

Wuss. What slack ass GM lets you get away with that? If you're going to go with dice-rolls for stats, you play the stats you roll.

Occassionally, I've dabbled with a home-brew point-buy based system for Traveller. Basically, one number pool with with you buy both stats and skill levels. Max human stat level was C (or 12, hexadecimal FTW), but could be raised to F (15) through your career. Max skill level is generally 6 in the various iterations of the game, i.e., Medic-6 would be a world class surgeon. Social Standing is a problem though. In the limited testing I did with this, people either buy it up high or ignore it completely.

Disclaimer: I still get royalties: http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/traveller/fartrader/
http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/traveller/fartrader/img/cover_sm.jpg

[Robert Sharp]

I remember the old (FASA?) Star Trek game allowed you to choose your education path. You would go to officer school, for example, and then specialize in science or command or whatever. Then you'd get a few "electives" which were like hobbies for your character, so maybe your engineer liked to go to the range and practice with his phaser or something.

I loved making characters for that system. I don't remember ever actually playing the game though ;)

[Raife]

MegaTraveller 2 did have a great character creation system. I thought the game beyond that was pretty mediocre, which was too bad.

[RichVR]

I purely LOVED the "Ahzanti High Lightning" supplement for Traveller. Because it had solo play rules.

[bloo]

I loved making characters for that system. I don't remember ever actually playing the game though ;)

Just pulled this down off the shelf to thumb through it. My friends and I tried to play it a couple of times, but....meh.

[Flowers]

I asked the same question about a year and a half ago and the systems that a lot of people really liked were Darklands and Fallout. I liked Ultima, there were some other mentions, but it was mostly just Darklands, Darklands, Darklands, Fallout, Fallout, Fallout.

[tork]

You're a Forgeite, aren't you?

...Burning Wheel...
...Dogs in the Vineyard...
...The Riddle of Steel...

[Raife]

Twilight 2000 was similar to MegaTraveller 2 in its character creation system, by the way. I don't even remember the system in Darklands.

[jeffd]

I guess I could see that. I'd rather a chargen system give me decisions that are actually, you know, meaningful and interesting.

I mean good on you but I don't find "do I want to settle for these scores or maybe spend another fifteen minutes rolling" to be a very interesting decision.

I might be a bit odd in that I like the randomness. You can reroll fir eternity but I enjoy having to make the decision wheher to keep a likely looking character or roll a few more times just incase something better comes along, but then there is always the possiblity of not getting anything that suitable for your character in the next few dozen rolls.

[jeffd]

Used to be, haven't posted there in well over a year.

I literally knew nothing about BW or BE until I went to Luke's booth at GenCon SoCal.

You're a Forgeite, aren't you?

[Andrew Mayer]

I've played most of the games that jeffd is talking about, and I love the new systems in comparison to most of the old stat based system, although I'm not really that enamored with Burning Wheel... it's still kind of "old school" to me. On the other hand it is probably closest to, and the biggest improvement on, the Traveller style system, providing lots of fodder for play before the game even starts.

[Raife]

...
...

Is there a particular reason why you guys put the response before what you're responding to in your posts? It breaks the flow, and used to bug me when people did it on Usenet.

[Mordrak]

The other type might be to pick two or three strong stats and boost them, like in TES games, but that's really a variation on point-buy.

I think TES needs to get rid of classes and its major and minor skill system. Instead, have your character pick natural talents and aptitudes. So basically keep the category emphasis (what your character leans fastest) and the one time +5 to two stats. While they're at it, they should get rid of the multiplier system and instead raise a characters stats automatically based on how many points they raise a related skill.

[StGabe]

Mmm, Darklands. Now THAT is a game that needs to be remade. Too bad no one played it. And yeah, the chargen system was fantastic and as described except with a pointbuy stat system (which I agree is far superior).

The issue with these career systems, hotwever, seems to come in with the fact that it seems to either limit character development or stretch believability. In Darklands you could spend 20 years to get up to, say, a 50 weapon skill. Then you could max that skill to 99 in another year of just playing. If it was possible to get 49 points in just a year of playing, why did it take so long to get the first 50?

Another P&P game that had a really cool system like this was the Star Trek roleplaying game. You started in Starfleet Academy, got posted to an assignment of some sorts and eventually perhaps got a posting as a science officer, or whatever. All this resulted in stats, skills and a rank. They even had a great example of a sample character complete with a huge story they'd written for him explaining all the branches in his career. I spent hours making characters for that game and never once actually played it. Didn't really seem like I needed to. :)

[EvilIdler]

I think TES needs to get rid of classes and its major and minor skill system.
Yeah, the system needs some parts reengineered. They should drop levels,
basically. Make the character have "milestones" every 10th skill upgrade, but
not increase the difficulty based on that. Hit points should be a factor of endurance,
pure and simple, or perhaps endurance and strength (wasn't it like that before?).
Difficulty of enemies should be based on significant combat skills for combat,
and if they could think up non-combat challenges, it would be even easier.
I really like Vanguard's diplomacy system - it would be great for a singleplayer game.
Something like that with Speechcraft/Mercantile would be neat.

Vanguard also has a "skillpool" system, where you have a number of points
as a maximum total within the category, but just enough skills in it that you
can't max them all (unlike old EQ, where levels limited them). Take that one
level further, by not exactly having levels, but a max total skill pool you could
have at any time, increasing at milestones. If you focus on magic, you'd have
to keep the combat pool low. Vanguard has a lot of neat design elements that
basically would be better off in a singleplayer game :P
(But, hey, we get chat channels in our singleplayer game!)

[EvilIdler]

Mmm, Darklands. Now THAT is a game that needs to be remade. Too bad no one played it. And yeah, the chargen system was fantastic and as described except with a pointbuy stat system (which I agree is far superior).

I've had the hardest time making it run, but it was an interesting system.
I also liked how the armour system was actually realistic - you wore leather,
then put your chain/plate on top of that. If you could afford it..


If it was possible to get 49 points in just a year of playing, why did it take so long to get the first 50?

Youthful enthusiasm?


Another P&P game that had a really cool system like this was the Star Trek roleplaying game. You started in Starfleet Academy
I'm no Trek fan, but I'd love it if they made the MMO play along those lines,
and involve more than just mere combat.

[Brian Rucker]

If I remember correctly, Cyberpunk 2020 also had a pretty cool chargen system that worked in some background story elements into the skill assignments.

For chargen that will blow the mind of someone who likes Traveller's system, I have to recommend The Burning Wheel. It really gets down in the weeds of background and has some very rich examples that do as good a job of fleshing out how the world works as they do just making individual characters. Everyone starts out at some status in society and from there just about anything can happen. Many choices are up to the player and some are up to chance but you're going to end up with a unique character when all's said and done with quite a backstory.

The rest of the game's mostly MIA though. I tend to think of Burning Wheel as to chargen as Aria is to world creation. Neither is particularly playable but both have alot to borrow from for custom or homebrew games.

Edit: Doh! jeffd beat me to Burning Wheel.

[tork]

Is there a particular reason why you guys put the response before what you're responding to in your posts? It breaks the flow, and used to bug me when people did it on Usenet.

It bugged me on Usenet, too. At least for me, I do it now because it's the standard behavior in Outlook, which I use constantly at work, and I've just gotten used to it.

The sad thing is that I used to bitch about people who offered precisely that rationale when I was a regular on rec.games.frp.advocacy.

Of course, top replies were more of a problem on Usenet, where quotes often would include all 30 of the previous responses in the thread, so you couldn't even see what the poster was actually responding to on screen.

[Misguided]

How can you be a Forgeite without mentioning Ron or Sorcerer? ;)

Used to be, haven't posted there in well over a year.

I literally knew nothing about BW or BE until I went to Luke's booth at GenCon SoCal.

[Ben Sones]

Sounds just like Darklands' character creation system.

It is similar, though Darklands likely cribbed the system from Traveller rather than vice-versa (Traveller predates Darklands by about 15 years). Traveller (the original black pocketbook version) also had the amusing quirk of listing your major stats in hexidecimal. I can't remember if they carried that over into Megatraveller or not.

Traveller had plenty of content by the time I started playing (early 80s), though most of it was background material. There weren't many actual modules, IIRC. GMs were expected to make their own adventures.

One of my favorite character creation systems would have to be the one in Amber: the character auction. You bid against the other players on being the best in various abilities. Making characters was a fun game session in and of itself.

[tork]

Used to be, haven't posted there in well over a year.

I literally knew nothing about BW or BE until I went to Luke's booth at GenCon SoCal.

Burning Wheel is a great game. It was mainly the mention of Dogs in the Vineyard that set off my Forge detector. That's very much a 'designed by the Forge for the Forge' game, and in my experience, people who were not at least introduced to it by a Forge member tend to be absolutely mystified by it.

[Brian Rucker]

One of my favorite character creation systems would have to be the one in Amber: the character auction. You bid against the other players on being the best in various abilities. Making characters was a fun game session in and of itself.

The manual section for the gamemaster on how to conduct the auction is priceless. Every attribute is the most important! And they tell the gm exactly how to sell the players on bidding on everything with the great example dialogues. I actually talked to Wujcik in emails a while back, trying to talk him into doing an RoTK tabletop RPG - he also did the one Palladium game I loved, Ninjas and Superspies. Amber style intrigues with Chinese mysticism and martial arts seemed like a natural fit. But he wouldn't go for it.

[tork]

How can you be a Forgeite without mentioning Ron or Sorcerer? ;)

Okay. Sorceror is awesome! Ron invented this amazing new way of playing games called GNS! I'm not sure what it actually means, but Ron says that even though there is no 'one true way', if you don't understand the GNS model and structure your games around it, you're just wasting your time and deluding yourself into thinking that you're roleplaying or even enjoying yourself! I don't want to start an argument about this, because if you disagree, it's just because you don't really understand what I'm talking about. So if you want to disagree, just come post on the Forge, and the wise ones there will enlighten you!

I kid. Well, mostly.

[Zylon]

Since the whole idea behind most RPG's is that you are somewhat special compared to the average person, a system that didn't allow a special person seemed very odd.
You're looking at it the wrong way. Even a character who isn't special by "godlike hero" standards is still special compared to Mr. Shopkeeper. Your piddly little 4 points of STR may not seem like much until you consider that most NPCs have even less. Even then, it's ridiculous to expect a plausible character to excel in every possible way.

Is there a particular reason why you guys put the response before what you're responding to in your posts?
I wouldn't bother questioning them on it. Top-posting has been scientifically demonstrated to cause irreversible brain damage.

[Robert Sharp]

Warhammer fantasy also had this kind of model, and it would translate well to a video game, IMO. You were able to have different careers before the game started, so you could be an apprentice mage for a while and a blacksmith for a while and it would raise your skills appropriately. I remember it being pretty customizable. However, this is another one that I made some characters for but barely played.

[Misguided]

I kid. Well, mostly.

Ron is a fascinating fellow to talk to, and while he may have a markedly different viewpoint than I do, I admire the strength of his convictions and the passion he brings to his designs.

Warhammer fantasy also had this kind of model, and it would translate well to a video game, IMO. You were able to have different careers before the game started, so you could be an apprentice mage for a while and a blacksmith for a while and it would raise your skills appropriately. I remember it being pretty customizable. However, this is another one that I made some characters for but barely played.

WFRP is a wonderful game (though as with any good rpg, not without its flaws), one that had quite a bit of inspiration on my own work (along with TORG, Earthdawn, and others). A shame you never got to play it. WFRP has the distinction of having some of the best premade campaign materials you'll ever find. One of my most memorable characters in 30 years of tabletop roleplaying was from a WFRP campaign.

*sigh* A shame I don't play these days...

[Robert Sharp]

What work do you mean, Misguided?

Also, I wish I could find a group to game with. There are lots of games I didn't get to play that looked really good. WFRP was one, but I also liked the really complex systems like Dangerous Journeys and Rolemaster, and the groups I did play with didn't play those games. I did get to play a good bit of Earthdawn. Interestingly, Paul Stephanouk was the GM of the main campaign I played (he is/was a lead designer at Big Huge Games). I wish Paul would work on a game using some of those systems. I wonder how much an Earthdawn licensing deal would cost.

[Misguided]

What work do you mean, Misguided?

Also, I wish I could find a group to game with. There are lots of games I didn't get to play that looked really good. WFRP was one, but I also liked the really complex systems like Dangerous Journeys and Rolemaster, and the groups I did play with didn't play those games. I did get to play a good bit of Earthdawn. Interestingly, Paul Stephanouk was the GM of the main campaign I played (he is/was a lead designer at Big Huge Games). I wish Paul would work on a game using some of those systems. I wonder how much an Earthdawn licensing deal would cost.

While I was never that much of a Shadowrun fan, preferring settings with somewhat lower tech and higher magic, I absolutely adored Earthdawn. The metaphysics of the workings of magic were so well done. While many felt the system was overly cumbersome, and perhaps there is something to be said for that, there were some exquisite ideas there, such as threaded magic items that allowed treasured possessions to grow and increase in power with you, rather than finding a +2 toothpick of destruction hiding under a bush and chucking the +1 into a ditch.

As for me, I ran a short-lived company called Misguided Games. We published a little-known game called Children of the Sun. I won't bore you with the details, but it afforded me the opportunity to work with some extremely talented folks from around the globe, for which I remain grateful.

[jeffd]

Mostly I'm looking to piss you off.

The actual reason: I try to make my replies stand on their own. Sounds stupid I know. I've got a personal pet peeve against people who break a reply into bite-size quotes and reply quote by quote. Makes it easy to take things out of context, and almost inevitably leads to the kind of zingy one-liner trolling that infuriates me. :D

Is there a particular reason why you guys put the response before what you're responding to in your posts? It breaks the flow, and used to bug me when people did it on Usenet.

[jeffd]

Why I didn't mention Sorcerer: It's chargen isn't all that interesting. Well I guess the whole "Descriptors tailored specifically to your game" part is, but that's about it.

re Dogs: I think it mystifies non-Forge gamers because it simply disregards so many assumptions that are built into roleplaying. If you've ever tried to play some of those games with traditional gamers you'll experience it. "What do you mean 'I love Mary' is a stat; that's not a stat!" I've had some success with exposing total nongamers to Forge type games and they have a much easier time "getting" it.

[tork]

Ron is a fascinating fellow to talk to, and while he may have a markedly different viewpoint than I do, I admire the strength of his convictions and the passion he brings to his designs.
I agree. I'm not annoyed so much by Ron as I am by his legions of the faithful. Sorcerer is a remarkable game, and contains a lot of fascinating ideas. I just think the Forge displays entirely too much rigidity and one-true-wayism.

*sigh* A shame I don't play these days...
Brother, don't I know it. I technically still have an Earthdawn game going, but it meets about once every 6 months. I miss it desperately.

Also, you mentioned influences on your own work. What have you worked on/created?

[EvilIdler]

Mostly I'm [...] stupid I know.
[...]
Makes it easy to take things out of context, and almost inevitably leads to the kind of zingy one-liner trolling that infuriates me. :D
Yeah, isn't that *annoying*?

But seriously, netiquette says to quote relevant parts. If the quoter is quoting
too much or too little, he's just an idiot. Of course, everyone's got a different
opinion of what's the right amount ;)

[bloo]

Traveller had plenty of content by the time I started playing (early 80s), though most of it was background material. There weren't many actual modules, IIRC. GMs were expected to make their own adventures.

Classic Traveller (CT) first came out in the little black box of little black books (LBBs) in 1977. The first adventure (Adventure 1 - The Kinunir) didn't come out until 1979.
Dark Conspiracy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Conspiracy) used the same system as whichever version of traveller was being published at the same time (I think The New Era).

[tork]

re Dogs: I think it mystifies non-Forge gamers because it simply disregards so many assumptions that are built into roleplaying. If you've ever tried to play some of those games with traditional gamers you'll experience it. "What do you mean 'I love Mary' is a stat; that's not a stat!" I've had some success with exposing total nongamers to Forge type games and they have a much easier time "getting" it.

True enough, though I'd be really curious to see how a group of nongamers would react to something like Dogs if they were just handed the book and left to their own devices.

[Zylon]

Mostly I'm looking to piss you off.

The actual reason: I try to make my replies stand on their own. Sounds stupid I know.
It is stupid. Especially when you do in fact fail to make your replies stand on their own. The first line of your response above doesn't make any sense without first reading the part you quoted, which you of course placed at the end. All you've done is create a confusing garbled mess.

[Pentadact]

System Shock 2 kicks off with a similar idea, although there's no age factor. You start in the game, pick a branch of the military to join rather than tinker with stats, then choose year-long training programs one after the other, doing grunt work that gives you skills or stat boosts based on the nature of it. After each selection, it skips ahead a year so you can make your next choice right away, after a little text summary of what happened in that year. It's kind of cheap and rudimentary in so many ways, but somehow it really works. Keeping the whole thing in-game rather than showing any menu screens at all makes a huge difference.

[Damien Neil]

True enough, though I'd be really curious to see how a group of nongamers would react to something like Dogs if they were just handed the book and left to their own devices.

I don't know if we count as "nongamers", but I played Dogs with a group of people who haven't played a non-C RPG in a decade, and we had great fun.

Then I ran a disastrously bad second session, and I've been too gun-shy to dare a third game. (Disastrously bad for several reasons, but the scary one for me was that the central trick I based the scenario around was, unbeknownst to me, scarily similar to something that actually happened to one of the players.)

[bloo]

System Shock 2 kicks off with a similar idea, although there's no age factor

Yes, and some of the makers of that admitted Traveller was the source of the idea in a GDC roadshow discussion group on documentation and writing in Boston in 99 or so.

[jeffd]

Zylon: If you make a video of yourself crying and put it on YouTube I will start quoting in the way you want me to.

Otherwise just go suck someone off and deal. :D

[awdougherty]

I never got into Traveller or Megatraveller, but I had a huge man crush on Twilight 2000, and eventually got in some 2300ad and Dark Conspiracy. Loved GDW RPGs.

[Brendan]

Whoops sorry Brendan - your "console/PC only" post wasn't up when I posted. SRRIES!

Don't feel bad. See how the rest of the thread has devloved into a usenet era argument.

Probably the most useless character system I've ever seen is that of Elder Scrolls : Oblivion. Noone I know likes it and I struggle to think of any reason why any studio would willingly use it. Combine it with enemies leveling with you and my mind just shuts down trying to work it out.

I have had brief exposure to Rolemaster and I'd love to see a PC game try it out. The PC would be perfect at crunching the numbers in the background.

(Edited to make me sound like I haven't just had a stroke.)

[Ben Sones]

I love Oblivion's character creator (also Morrowind's, and Daggerfall's). I'm not a huge fan of the levelling monsters, though.

[lesslucid]

Don't feel bad. See how the rest of the thread has devloved into a usenet era argument.

Probably the most useless character system I've ever seen is that of Elder Scrolls : Oblivion. Noone I know likes it and I struggle to think of any reason why any studio would willingly use it. Combine it with enemies leveling with you and my mind just shuts down trying to work it out.

I have brief exposire to Rolemaster and I'd love to see a PC game try it out. The PC would be perfect at crunching the numbers in the background.

You have to love a game which has a "depression criticals" table. Character feeling depressed? Roll for a critical!

[EvilIdler]

Rolemaster? The game with "walking across marbled floor wearing a green hat
with an eagle feather" tables?