Great-looking upcoming DS/PSP you haven't heard of (Puzzle Quest) [Archive]

Misguided

02-04-2007, 07:42 AM

Time for a little evangelism. I'm on a zero-man crusade to try and let some more people know about Puzzle Quest: Challenge of the Warlords for DS and PSP, which is due out in March. I'm convinced this is going to be one of those great games no one ever plays. It has one of the more intriguing concepts I've ever seen, combining two vastly different genres together to create something that is unique, yet built on solid battle-tested mechanics.

PQ is one part quest-based RPG, complete with several classes to choose from each with their corresponding skills/spells, one part Bejeweled. No, I'm not joking.

The combat grid is 8*8 squares, and on it you'll find mana gems of 4 colors (red, green, blue, yellow-each corresponding to an element) as well as purple gems, coins, and skull gems. when you match 3 or more in a row (by exchanging the position of two adjacent stones ala Bejeweled) they are removed from the board and you also derive some form of benefit from the particular stones you collect.

For instance, match three yellow gems, and your character gains three yellow (Air) mana, which is used to activate spells. Collecting coins gives you money (surprise). Collecting purple gems gives bonus experience. Collecting skulls does direct damage to your opponent.

You and your opponent alternate turns on the same board, so you have to be careful not to set up your opponent with moves that will hurt you. Creating 4 in a row of any gem/coin gives you an extra move. Creating 5 in a row gives you an extra turn plus a wild-card gem. Wild-card gems match any color of mana gem have a multiplier (I've seen 2x to 5x) which modifies the amount of mana collected. There are also special skull gems that do extra damage and collect all the surrounding gems when they are removed from the board.

During your turn, provided you have the mana for it, you can activate a spell instead of making a move on the grid. Some spells do direct damage to your opponent. Many of them seem to manipulate the board in some way. In playing the demo, my newbie knight had only an ability called Thrust which could be used to destroy/collect any one square on the board. These abilities are really going to help differentiate the gameplay from being a simple clone, yet the game is fun and getting started is so intuitive, since most people have at least seen Bejeweled before and the fundamental concept is so simple.

Incidentally, if you make an invalid move (that doesn't remove anything from the board) you take damage. Furthermore, the time limit on taking a turn can be infinite or set between 4-16 seconds (not sure on the interval). This should allow for people that want a more action-packed game to get into this and not leave people like me that want a more relaxed experience out in the cold.

When combat ends you are presented with a reward screen that shows you the experience and gold you gain for defeating the enemy, plus any bonus gold and xp you gathered along the way. Characters are level-based and when you gain a level you receive skill points that can be spent in several areas, including one for each mana type as well as battle, cunning, and morale. Cunning determines who goes first and likely has other effects. The mana masteries will increase the amount of mana you gain when collecting gems of that color, and presumably open up new abilities. Battle likely increases the yield from collecting skulls.

I haven't even mentioned the map yet. There's an overhead map that shows places you can visit. If there are quests available at a locale there will be a yellow exclamation point over the town, or if the quest is part of the main story arc, a red one. Selecting a locale pops up a menu of stuff to do, such as obtaining quests or visiting shops. You can buy items in shops that give you combat bonuses. I believe you can equip one helm, one weapon, a piece of armor and one miscellaneous item. Apparently, as the game progresses you can also capture towns and build special structures that give you bonuses, but I didn't get a chance to see that.

Other stuff I've read but not seen myself:
There is some form of crafting new items with salvage you acquire.
You can choose to capture some opponents, then learn their skills.
The latter, and possibly both of these make use of some sort of mini-games which are variants of the main combat mechanic.
You can also apparently get companions to join you, though I'm not sure in what way these aid you.

In addition to the quest mode (with over 150 quests), there's a single-player instant-action mode as well as a two-player vs mode. You can level up your character in the instant action or 2p modes then hop right back into the main quest.

Almost forgot to mention that the game is also apparently going to appear on the PC and on the 360 at a later date.

Well, I think I've covered most everything. This is my most anticipated game on any platform right now. I had some concerns about how well they'd be able to mesh the puzzle-based gameplay with an RPG, but after trying it for a few all-too-brief minutes (30 of them passed me by in what seemed like 5) that is no longer a concern. I've read the main quest is expected to hold 40+ hours of gameplay. It remains to be seen how well balanced the game is as you progress and whether or not the different classes really feel different, which would add some replayability.

As far as PSP versus DS, I played the PSP version, and it looked nice enough, but I don't think it was pushing the system too hard. I think the DS version will look fairly comparable, though the gems are going to be smaller and I hope it doesn't become heavily squint-inducing. The DS version apparently does support using the touch screen for the combat grid. One bummer about the DS version is that there are apparently only two save slots, which stinks when there are four classes to try. The PSP version is said to allow as many saves as you have room for.

CustodianV131

02-04-2007, 07:53 AM

I'll help your viral marketting a bit :)

The guys who made Warlords worked on this. Now they're working on bringing Warlords II to the DS.

Their page about Puzzle Quest:
http://www.infinite-interactive.com/puzzlequest/

Looks like I'll be getting this game for my DS for sure!

whatever7

02-04-2007, 07:54 AM

Capcom Puzzel World AKA Puzzle Fighter is coming out this Tuesday.

Did I mention Puzzele Fighter is the only puzzle game that is better than the (Gameboy) Tetris?

Misguided

02-04-2007, 08:05 AM

I'll help your viral marketting a bit :)

The guys who made Warlords worked on this. Now they're working on bringing Warlords II to the DS.

Yeah, I forgot to mention that the game is set in the Warlords universe. Thanks.

Soldats

02-04-2007, 08:08 AM

Misguided

02-04-2007, 08:20 AM

Wow, this sounds really interesting. Thanks for bringing this to our attention. I used to love Warlords III, and the way they brought the puzzle and adventuring/RPG aspects together sounds fun.

Do you know if there will be any differences between the PSP & DS versions? I like picking up the "superiour" version of multi-console releases.

Aside from the difference in number of available save slots, I haven't seen any differences mentioned between the two versions. There have been previews up at a number of places like IGN and Gamespot for a while now, but I really get the sense this one is flying below the radar, hence my post. I can't even reserve PQ at work, because it isn't in the system.

Misguided

02-05-2007, 04:40 AM

A few interesting tidbits from developer Steve Fawkner this morning (from a thread on the official forum (http://infinite-interactive.com/InfiniteForums/viewforum.php?f=8)). He's addressing the points of another post based on an old PC demo from a couple of years ago, but there are some things of interest here:

"1. The final game had the story-mode COMPLETELY rewritten more in the style of a traditional RPG (so a little more like Final Fantasy Tactics, I guess). It is now a real story (quite open-ended in many ways) with branching sections & side-stories + all sorts of interesting characters to meet & extra things to collect.

2. We spent the last 6-9 months re-balancing the game. It was very pleasing to be able to fine-tune this game properly. There are now a lot of additions and improvements as heroes progress towards the level-cap of 50. There are still plenty of good tricks to discover with spell + item combo's, but I think there is now a counter to everything.

3. There are 3 levels to the AI... and the AI makes better choices at higher levels. On the top level, it never misses good gem combo's and will cast spells more frequently & intelligently. You get a 25% xp bonus for fighting it on the highest level.

Oh, and to answer a question from Misguided, higher up, we haven't officially announced an XBox 360 version yet. There are various amounts of red-tape that we are still working our way through on this. However, if/when it is announced it would almost certainly be an XBox 360 Live Arcade title."

shang

02-05-2007, 04:46 AM

This looks really interesting. March you say? I wonder if it's on schedule.

Misguided

02-05-2007, 04:56 AM

This looks really interesting. March you say? I wonder if it's on schedule.

Not sure, though I've seen March mentioned in some of the previews and Nintendo.com says March 20. Gamestop/EB still don't have this title in their system, which is frustrating.

Tom Chick

02-05-2007, 05:50 AM

You're working on this game, Misguided? What do you do for it?

I'm totally on board with this little thing. I've got a final or final-ish build that's gotten its hooks into me. It's got the same bit of leveling addictiveness that SSG/Infinite Interactive put into the other Warlords games, and they've done a superlative job of folding the leveling into the Bejeweling.

I spent a good deal of time the other evening just leveling my mount. Now I'm trying to capture different creatures to see what they do. I even rolled up an alt and I'm leveling her by just playing skirmish games. Sheesh, now even casual gaming isn't safe from the insidious lure of RPGing...

-Tom

Jim Preston

02-05-2007, 06:10 AM

I've got to repeat Soldat's question: is there any reason I should get the DS version versus the PSP? I'd prefer the PSP because 1) the screen is bright and beautiful, and 2) my PSP gets more usage than my iPod when I'm on the road. Is there something special about the second screen or touch controls? Thanks.

Misguided

02-05-2007, 06:10 AM

You're working on this game, Misguided? What do you do for it?

-Tom

No, not at all, Tom. Sorry if I gave that impression. While I did a bit of game publishing on the pencil and paper side and thought about trying to get involved with electronic game development at one time, I have no involvement with Puzzle Quest other than being a gamer who is intrigued by the concept can't wait to get his hands on it. As I said at the start of the thread (admittedly, a long post) I think this one is flying under the radar of most people and I wanted to bring a little attention to it for the benefit of people that might be interested in such a game.

It's great to hear that you've been enjoying it, as I have had good luck picking up titles that you enjoyed (Test Drive: EoD and Excite Truck--also Smuggler's Run for GC more recently, but I haven't had a chance to play it much just yet).

slantz

02-05-2007, 10:18 AM

Not sure, though I've seen March mentioned in some of the previews and Nintendo.com says March 20. Gamestop/EB still don't have this title in their system, which is frustrating.
Actually, it's in EB's system now for both platforms, marked as March 20. Feels like a real date to me.

Tom Chick

02-05-2007, 04:43 PM

Ah, I think I was confused, Missguided, because you were quoting Steve Fauwkner in first person ("We still haven't officially announced the 360 version").

I've been playing on the PSP, but now that I see there's a DS version, I'd definitely recommend going with that. I played a lot of Zoo Keeper on the DS, and being able to use the stylus is, for me, a huge deal in a Bejeweled clone. Having said that, it really is bright, colorful, and easy-to-read on the PSP.

Oh, also, there's multiplayer so if you have any friends getting this, your choice of platform will matter. I think you can play your leveled up characters against each other.

-Tom

Misguided

02-05-2007, 07:13 PM

Ah, I think I was confused, Missguided, because you were quoting Steve Fauwkner in first person ("We still haven't officially announced the 360 version"). -Tom

I thought that might be it, and when I first made the post, I had forgotten to indicate I had taken that quote from a thread on the official forum. I fixed that earlier today.

Re: DS vs PSP my only real concern is that the graphics will induce squinting since they'll be smaller. Aside from that I don't see it really losing much.

@Hiro_Antagonist: Hmmm....I checked today and it wasn't there. Weird. I hope you are right. I actually emailed the corporate office about this earlier today.
I'll probably reserve two copies so I can play against my son (and not have to share the cart ;) ).

Misguided

02-25-2007, 03:31 PM

There's a new interview with Steve Fawkner over at 4color rebellion (http://www.4colorrebellion.com/archives/2007/02/22/4cr-interview-infinite-interactive-puzzle-quest-ds/#more-4619). There's a nice overview of the game as well as the first detail I've seen on how the capturing, training, and synthesizing mini-games work.

The second part of the interview has some info on Warlords DS and Galactrix. In discussing Galactrix, the names Elite and Starflight came up, which I founf really intriguing.

Misguided

03-04-2007, 08:29 PM

There's a nice preview at Gamespot (http://www.gamespot.com/ds/puzzle/puzzlequestchallenge/news.html?sid=6166778&tag=recent_updates;title;0)

Jason Lutes

03-04-2007, 10:45 PM

I'm really psyched to give this game a whirl. I love my DS, but I haven't had a reason to play it in a long time, and now that Panzer Tactics has been pushed back I'm hoping this one will fit the bill.

CustodianV131

03-04-2007, 11:52 PM

There's a nice demo in the "On the spot" show (03/01/07) at 20 minutes in.

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/features/onthespot/index.php?tag=flash_video%3bvideo%3b0

They are really enthusiastic about it... then again they seem to be that about everything...

But sure is looking like a great fun game. I've mine preordered which is a first for a DS title :D

shang

03-05-2007, 12:33 AM

I've mine preordered which is a first for a DS title :D

Same here. :)

Misguided

03-05-2007, 04:28 AM

Where did you guys preorder at?

Mordrak

03-05-2007, 05:39 AM

They are really enthusiastic about it... then again they seem to be that about everything...

It would kind of be in bad form to invite a producer/artist/whatever of game X on your show and go "meh."

That and "excited" hosts make the show more appealing. That's why hosts are generally exaggerated on TV. I watched Button Mashing recently and the host was trying to get the contests animated. It was mildly funny. In person, gamers seem to be a fairly civil bunch. The internet must be our full moon.

Xemu

03-05-2007, 07:27 AM

Local EB wouldn't give me a preorder on either the PSP or DS version -- they said that's usually a sign that corporate has no idea when the game is actually coming out.

Assuming I can get my hands on one I'm pretty psyched though... man would I love a 360 XBLA version. :)

slantz

03-05-2007, 10:14 AM

Local EB wouldn't give me a preorder on either the PSP or DS version -- they said that's usually a sign that corporate has no idea when the game is actually coming out.

Same here, though the website still says 3/20. Which is weird, because they don't usually list a date when they don't know the date. (Or rather, if they're guessing, they usually mark is as the first of the month.)

shang

03-13-2007, 03:01 PM

From play.com: Your order for Puzzle Quest: Challenge Of The Warlords has been posted.

Hooray! :)

..except that orders from play.com usually take 5 business days to arrive to Finland... :(

CustodianV131

03-14-2007, 03:50 AM

From play.com: Your order for Puzzle Quest: Challenge Of The Warlords has been posted.

Hooray! :)

..except that orders from play.com usually take 5 business days to arrive to Finland... :(

Yay! Same for me! Delivery takes up to 3 weeks though at times, so here's hoping this one will arrive in only 5 business days. Silly since I'm in the Netherlands and one would guess it not taking that long.

Still its on its way!

Misguided

03-14-2007, 04:24 AM

Same here, though the website still says 3/20. Which is weird, because they don't usually list a date when they don't know the date. (Or rather, if they're guessing, they usually mark is as the first of the month.)

Hiro and Xemu, listen up. The game can't be preordered from EB/GS.

However, get the store to fire off an email to the comments/suggestions hotline in their POS system, and the folks at inventory control will be sure to earmark some copies for that store. Have the store manager get your name and phone number and call you when it comes in.

I've got 5 copies of the DS version coming to my store (because I'm buying three of them and wanted a couple of extras) and a couple for PSP.

flyinj

03-14-2007, 02:37 PM

What is the best SKU to get this on? What are the differences? Is the stylus/touch used in the DS SKU?

Xemu

03-14-2007, 02:44 PM

I broke down and ordered the DS version from Amazon instead of Gamestop. They claim shipping on March 20... looking forward to it!

Misguided

03-14-2007, 04:09 PM

I broke down and ordered the DS version from Amazon instead of Gamestop. They claim shipping on March 20... looking forward to it!

Can't say as I blame you under the circumstances.

PSP will obviosuly sport better graphics. DS gets touch screen jewel action.

flyinj

03-14-2007, 04:36 PM

Can't say as I blame you under the circumstances.

PSP will obviosuly sport better graphics. DS gets touch screen jewel action.

So, the DS does utilize the touch screen? No load times too I bet.

Ugh I don't know which SKU to get!

Misguided

03-14-2007, 07:45 PM

Well, I've played the PSP version and thought it was great, but I no longer own a PSP, so that's out. My only real concern for the DS version is the size of the jewels on the board. I hope they aren't too small. Aside from that I don't think that the difference in graphics will be a big deal. This isn't a game that's going to push the limits of what the PSP can do.

I'm not sure if Tom has had access to both versions.

LordGek

03-16-2007, 12:38 PM

Stop wondering about the game and actually play the demo!

http://gamedaily.newaol.com/pub/0078701752/PuzzleQuestDemoSetup.zip

Its a 34M deal with no time limit, missing a few modes, and won't allow your character to go beyond 7th level (which still means plenty of battles vs. zombies, orcs, knights, vampire bats, and more)!

Very cute and clever although I simply skip through all of the dialog (I don't give a shoot about the storyline, lets just get the battle on).

And while it was eventually annoying, the tutorial and tips were nice to start off with, often reminding you when you might be able to make a set of 4 or more (a key mechanic since it means an extra turn).

Also weird since the other game I'm playing lately, Marvel Trading Cards, is also done by Viscious Byte (if I get it right Infinite Interactive made the PC version that folk like Viscious Bite converted into the console versions). From the graphics this seems like an exact port of the PSP version and graphics (with you and the opponent on the opposite sides of the board).

So, yeah, its bejewelled with a purpose. Every move you make nets you damage (to your opponent, of course), gold, experience, or mana (of some 4 varieties). All spells/skills usually rely on a combination of types of mana and can have all sorts of cute effects. Like one that destroys all of the yellow gems on the board and, in turn, does 1 pt of damage to your opponent for each gem so destroyed. I like how even a spell like this has multiple strategies to it...like while it may just be a fun way to do some serious damage to your foe, its really nice if they rely on the yellow gems to power their spell/skills...on the other hand you also have screwed yourself out of any yellow gems for a few moves. Furthermore, do you simply use this spell as soon as you can cast it or first try to wait for a moment when the board is practically FILLED with yellow gems? Even further, with all of the yellow gems gone, not only will many moves just occur automatically in the cascading, it will now be that much easier for your or your opponent to make any other type of set now that all of the yellow gems are out of the way.

CustodianV131

03-16-2007, 12:39 PM

PC demo is available now:
http://www.gamedaily.com/canvases/gd/_a/download-puzzle-quest-demo/20070315101009990002

Debated or I would even download it with the DS version on the way, but couldn't resist. Had to know or I would enjoy it. Luckily so far I really digg it! I’m not a puzzle game fan, but coupled with the RPG/Strategy components, I’m really enjoying it! Will be a better on my DS though, since I'll get to squeeze in a lot more time with it being portable.

Edit: *snif* I need to be quicker with this keyboard thing... Ah well. Mine page has a nice description and pictures though... not such an ugly direct download link ;)

LordGek

03-16-2007, 12:58 PM

Jason Lutes

03-16-2007, 02:01 PM

Thanks for the heads up, I'm really digging the demo so far. This is the puzzle game I've been waiting for!

Misguided

03-16-2007, 02:09 PM

This is the same demo I played previously on PSP. Note that if you build the structures, you can try out some of the mini games. I've captured a skeleton and learned both of its abilities.

forgeforsaken

03-16-2007, 02:36 PM

Demo is really nice. I'm surprised how high the production values are. I'll be grabbing the DS version.

slantz

03-16-2007, 02:57 PM

LordGek

03-16-2007, 03:18 PM

How do you capture the skellies? I built the dungeon, then killed my 3rd skelly, and it didn't let me capture him.

Anyway, the demo is f'in amazing. It was everything I dared hope. This is my new favorite game.

I like many of the subtley deep choices you need to make in this, at first glance maybe, shallow little puzzle game. Like the Warrrior's War Cry ability makes a nice tasty +5 Damage Skull somewhere on the grid, but even if you are the first one to get a turn with it, there is no guarantee you can make a set with it. In fact you may have just armed your opponent with something nasty to hit YOU in the head with...so do you want to risk it?

Misguided

03-16-2007, 03:25 PM

Jason Lutes

03-16-2007, 04:24 PM

I like many of the subtley deep choices you need to make in this, at first glance maybe, shallow little puzzle game. Like the Warrrior's War Cry ability makes a nice tasty +5 Damage Skull somewhere on the grid, but even if you are the first one to get a turn with it, there is no guarantee you can make a set with it. In fact you may have just armed your opponent with something nasty to hit YOU in the head with...so do you want to risk it?
In anticipation of PQ I restarted Warlords IV (also by Steve Fawkner) for the fourth time, having totally lost interest on previous outings. After sticking with it some, I'm actually enjoying it and finding a new appreciation for what he was trying to do with the design. It shares a deep customization and subtlety with PQ. Too bad it's fugly and kind of tedious to play. He seems to have hit a cross-genre sweet spot with PQ.

[Edited for spelling]

Jason Lutes

03-16-2007, 05:50 PM

Rock on! (http://www.infinite-interactive.com/galactrix.php)

One gameplay model I won't mind seeing milked for all its worth. Although I don't like the look of the interface nearly as much.

metta

03-16-2007, 06:25 PM

Nintendo Power hated it, they gave it 4/10. Which means I'm going to wait and see before buying: they've never steered me wrong, and when I have ignored their advice I've regretted it.

Misguided

03-16-2007, 06:48 PM

Nintendo Power hated it, they gave it 4/10. Which means I'm going to wait and see before buying: they've never steered me wrong, and when I have ignored their advice I've regretted it.

You have the May issue already? It's not in March or April.

Having spent 5+ hours playing the early portions of the game, unless something changes dramatically later on, they're absolutely insane.

Marcus

03-16-2007, 07:29 PM

I guess the real question is which version to get. If I am understanding things correctly both versions are the same so its just a matter of which platform you like better.

metta

03-16-2007, 08:04 PM

You have the May issue already? It's not in March or April.

Having spent 5+ hours playing the early portions of the game, unless something changes dramatically later on, they're absolutely insane.

The May issue (with Pokemon Pearl on the cover) just arrived yesterday. I can't speak to their sanity (or how it relates to your taste in games) but every time I've ignored their dire warnings I've kicked myself and turned to the trade-in counter.

Misguided

03-16-2007, 08:16 PM

The May issue (with Pokemon Pearl on the cover) just arrived yesterday. I can't speak to their sanity (or how it relates to your taste in games) but every time I've ignored their dire warnings I've kicked myself and turned to the trade-in counter.

Bearing in mind that I'm still new to Nintendo Power, to me, a 4 in this day in age indicates an absolute piece of garbage...bordering on something that shouldn't have ever been published. The PSP and PC demos are FAR from that. Now, I suppose it is possible that the DS version got borked in some way (you know, like they borrowed the touch screen recognition from Mageknight or something) but I find that hard to believe.

metta

03-16-2007, 08:20 PM

There is no objective truth out there somewhere that critics and consumers can hew to. It doesn't matter what you believe.

You like it; they didn't like it. Draw a line in the sand if you want, but try not to take these things so personally; your BP will thank you :p

Marcus

03-17-2007, 01:10 AM

So after putting some time in on the PC demo I am firmly in the must get camp. I am still unsure which version to get but I am leaning towards the DS version. This game is good stuff.

Tom Chick

03-17-2007, 01:30 AM

There is no objective truth out there somewhere that critics and consumers can hew to.

I agree with you except for the most part. However, it *is* an objective truth that Warlords: Puzzle Quest is a totally awesome game that in no way deserves a 4, particularly on the 7-9 scale. So I'm with Misguided. That's either an insane rating or a typo.

-Tom

forgeforsaken

03-17-2007, 06:06 AM

Doesn't Nintendo Power rate on the 5 star scale?

Joel

03-17-2007, 07:32 AM

Just played the demo and am loving it. Is there going to be a PC version, though, or just DS/PSP?

Misguided

03-17-2007, 07:36 AM

Doesn't Nintendo Power rate on the 5 star scale?

Nope.

Metta, I'm not taking it personally. Apologies if it came across that way. I realize I'm coming off as a bit fanboyish in regards to this title. I can understand that someone might not like PQ, I'm just saying that my impression of a score that low is of a game that has major fundamental flaws and imperfections. Looking at the arcchive in Nintendo Power, I count about 70 DS titles with scores, only 5 of which have a score of 4 or less. One of those was from the March issue for the Marvel Trading Card Game which they gave a 4. Here's a quote: "...cryptic rules, absolutely brutal learning curve, and terrible in-game tutorial make it virtually impossible to play."

Again, unless something is fundamentally wrong with the DS version that isn't in either the PSP or PC demo versions, this game, whether the reviewer liked it or not, simply does not belong in that category.

slantz

03-17-2007, 11:12 AM

However, it *is* an objective truth that Warlords: Puzzle Quest is a totally awesome game that in no way deserves a 4, particularly on the 7-9 scale. So I'm with Misguided.
Around my office, there are people who went gaga over it, and people who absolutely hated it. Although I think that latter was more due to difficulty than anything else.

Admittedly my office has an unusually high investment in PQ's core Bejeweled mechanic and in keep-in-simple-and-easy principles, but we also have tons of hard-core geeks. I'm guessing a line will need to be drawn between the casual gamers and hard-core geeks, and only people on our side of the line will end up loving this title. I can see the casual or mainstream types being turned off.

Marvel Trading Card Game which they gave a 4
This supports my point. Marvel is the top of the genre, when it comes to video game CCG's. It may be a 4 to the mainstream gamer who I wouldn't expect to understand it, but it's an 8 or 9 to its indended audience. Shouldn't that count for something?

Jason Lutes

03-17-2007, 12:35 PM

Two things I'm wondering:

1) Is there a way to turn off the "hint" arrow that eventually shows up to point at a valid potential move? I'd like to find moves on my own without any hints.

2) Does dying have any repercussions at all? It sort of drains blood from the drama of your fights if dying just means you get to try the fight over with no penalty of any sort. I'm hoping the release has some sort of difficulty level that makes dying matter...

Alan Au

03-17-2007, 02:39 PM

1) Is there a way to turn off the "hint" arrow that eventually shows up to point at a valid potential move? I'd like to find moves on my own without any hints.

2) Does dying have any repercussions at all? It sort of drains blood from the drama of your fights if dying just means you get to try the fight over with no penalty of any sort. I'm hoping the release has some sort of difficulty level that makes dying matter...
I don't know about the hint arrows; yeah, I wish I could disable them.

As for penalties, I think the idea was that that player needs to be able to move forward with the game, in case of bad luck and/or a tough enemy that would otherwise cause the player to get stuck.

If anything, losing should result in an XP gain and a money loss; right now you keep any XP and money gained through stars and coins.

- Alan

LordGek

03-17-2007, 02:50 PM

2) Does dying have any repercussions at all? It sort of drains blood from the drama of your fights if dying just means you get to try the fight over with no penalty of any sort. I'm hoping the release has some sort of difficulty level that makes dying matter...

This is my one turn off so far as well. There are NO consequences of losing! I don't even see any sort of time passing so its just like you can keep trying until you win. While I'm not hardcore enough to want to start over whenever I lose, I, like you said as far as drama, want to have some incentive to beat my opponent.

dannimal

03-17-2007, 03:04 PM

Wow. I could probably lose my job getting hooked on a game like this.

Some thoughts having burned through the demo on the PC (the story part):

- Will there be a full version for the PC? I like having the huge screen.

- Does the manual do a better job of explaining the skills and everything else that modifies gem-clearing bonuses? More than once I ended up thinking "How'd that move end up doing that?" with no way of figuring it out.

- Put me in the "want the hint off" camp. More than once it suggested a move that would have set the enemy up to pop me.

forgeforsaken

03-17-2007, 03:10 PM

Yeah, the hinted move often seems to be a really bad move to make.

LordGek

03-17-2007, 03:20 PM

Yeah, the hinted move often seems to be a really bad move to make.

Enh, I kind of like it. Nice to know if you can't find your own its there AND that it in no way is always the best move so "use at own risk" (if it could always tell you the absolute best move...might as well have the game play itself).

CustodianV131

03-17-2007, 03:50 PM

Well got about 4 hours in with the DS version or so. So I can some idea of what its like, lots to still discover though. The quest mode is great fun so far! I really like the progression through the game learning spells ect. Feels so much more meaningful then just going for a high sore or so in a bejewelled like game (I’ve no clue how that actually plays since I never tired it) I’m collecting money now for items and building up my stronghold. That kind of thing also makes me pick certain enemies and gives me subgoals, as wanting a certain amount of experience to level or so much gold to buy that certain item, apart from killing the enemy. Great fun!

Also I’m so bad at this for now, its really quite deep. Some of the enemies spells leave me frowning in disbelieve at the changed gameboard or my rapidly depleting health bar. Ouch! Lots of depth here for sure!

I’ve no clue about why it scored a 4 in Nintendo Power, unless they mention a showstopping bug or so. The DS version plays great! The stylus is so handy, I prefer it to my mouse. While the PC demo is equally great and looks better and I’ll likely get the PC version as well, I must say I love the play wherever you are, ability of the DS version. You’ve a quickmatch running 20 seconds after you start the system. 5 minutes and you’ve a meaningful gaming experience. I can see me playing this a lot while on the road. Also you can use the gold and experience you earn in quickmatch in the quest game so it isn’t wasted.

I’m off for some more. Have fun!

Jason Lutes

03-17-2007, 04:21 PM

This from the bullet point list on the PQ website:

No Penalty for Losing - If you experience defeat, you are still awarded experience points as well as partial gold and then encouraged to try again; this allows constant progression and avoids any feelings that invested play time is wasted.
Or: this allows tension-free progression and avoids any real sense of challenge or accomplishment.

Ah well, I'll still get the game because I love the gameplay. But I wish they'd included some sort of Iron Man mode as an option or something.

Joel

03-17-2007, 04:29 PM

I have so much other shit I should be doing but I have played this all god damned day.

Personally, I like the lack of penalties for losing. Just losing is penalty enough for me.

Jab

03-17-2007, 04:47 PM

Is there a full version of the game coming to the pc? Or is it only coming to the psp or Ds? Eb only had the handheld versions listed coming the 20th.

extarbags

03-17-2007, 04:49 PM

I don't think the hinted move is meant to be the best move. I like that it's there because it means that, if you just can't see a move, you don't have to stare at the screen for fifteen minutes looking for one.

dannimal

03-17-2007, 05:16 PM

LordGek

03-17-2007, 05:49 PM

I don't care if the hinted move isn't the best one, I just think it's bad for it to be a move that will very obviously allow the opponent to slap you down.

One time the hint would clearly have set up an easy skull clear for the foe's next move. I'd seen the move before the hint came up and dismissed it as a bad one, and then "Hey, maybe this one!"...

I think having to replay the fight is punishment. Is it enough? That's obviously debateable. But if a fight takes 10-15 minutes, that's a non-trivial cost, having to re-do it. I wouldn't mind getting 50% of the xp and gold you would in a win, but it's not a disaster this way.

Bah, I say, to be fair, the hinted move MUST be chosen completely randomly from the possible moves. The idea being, as other said, just a fall back if you're stuck BUT something you should never truly trust.

Maybe we can HOPE by the time it makes it to the PC Steve and the gang will add in some little Iron Man mode extra or something (they did in one of Battlecry games via a patch).

So, big question, in the full game are the quests at least a little randomized or will we always, just like this demo, be offered the same quests in the same order? I understand that in a demo they have incentive to minimize some of the replayability but I certainly hope they mix stuff up at least with the simple monster kill or patrol quests.

Misguided

03-17-2007, 07:53 PM

This supports my point. Marvel is the top of the genre, when it comes to video game CCG's. It may be a 4 to the mainstream gamer who I wouldn't expect to understand it, but it's an 8 or 9 to its indended audience. Shouldn't that count for something?

Absolutely it should! This is one of those things I find so frustrating with reviews lately. Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but I think that games should generally be reviewed by someone who has an interest in the genre, and that they should give some impression as to who would enjoy it and who might not.

It blows my mind when reviewers basically start out a review by saying, "I can't stand games like this, but here goes" and it seems to be happening more and more. Still my point was more that a game (in this case Marvel) scored a 4 because in the opinion of the reviewer (and I don't necessarily agree) it was virtually unplayable. There's nothing about this game that is virtually unplayable. Now...if you want to say it's uninspired and derivative and slap a 6 on it, I might not agree, but I could see someone defending that position, but 4 is "worst the system has to offer territory".

forgeforsaken

03-17-2007, 07:58 PM

This reminds of way back when Gamepro reviewed X-com for the Playsation and it was blatantly obvious reading the review that the reviewer never even got to the combat phase of the game. He of course hated it.

slantz

03-17-2007, 08:14 PM

dannimal

03-17-2007, 08:53 PM

Bah, I say, to be fair, the hinted move MUST be chosen completely randomly from the possible moves. The idea being, as other said, just a fall back if you're stuck BUT something you should never truly trust.

In theory, I agree with you. In a demo, though (which is heavily centered on the tutorial and how to play), I think I'd either leave the hint arrow out, or try to make sure it didn't suggest a move that hurts the player.

Alan Au

03-17-2007, 09:57 PM

My guess is the hint is just in case people get completely stumped. The reason it's so bad is because the hint doesn't take into account any lookahead (i.e. the AI move). However, the one time when it really helps is for highlighting opportunities to make a group of four, which grants you an extra move.

I've pretty much maxed out on what you can do in the demo, short of capturing the citadel of Gallia, which has a Battle rating of 30 and ~200 hit points (!). Drakenburg was tough, but I managed it with a souped up level 7 warrior with all sorts of crazy equipment and extra training.

For those if you who think the demo is too easy, try leveling up your mount (i.e. the captured giant rat). That particular minigame adds a timer; I've gotten up to level 14, which gives you 4 seconds per move before it penalizes you.

- Alan

Gendal

03-18-2007, 02:52 AM

So I personally have no problem w/ dying not carrying any penalties (other than wasted time), but I do find it interesting that the developers of the Warlords Battlecry series haven't put Iron/Bronse Man modes in. That one tiny mechanic created a lot of replayability in the Battlecry series.
I can't imagine an Iron Man mode working in this game. It seems too random and unpredictable with the battles, hence the no penalty for dying. A couple of times I started a battle with the enemy already having gone first, and basically cutting my health down to a 1/3rd because they got extremely lucky board setups. Luck seems to play a bit too much into this game, then again I have never liked Bejeweled, and suck at it to boot. Somehow though I am still wildly addicited just by the short PC demo.

My guess is the hint is just in case people get completely stumped. The reason it's so bad is because the hint doesn't take into account any lookahead (i.e. the AI move). However, the one time when it really helps is for highlighting opportunities to make a group of four, which grants you an extra move.

I almost always end up waiting for that exact situation, just so I don't accidently miss a group of 4. It's highly annoying, and I wish they didn't have it in.

I've pretty much maxed out on what you can do in the demo, short of capturing the citadel of Gallia, which has a Battle rating of 30 and ~200 hit points (!). Drakenburg was tough, but I managed it with a souped up level 7 warrior with all sorts of crazy equipment and extra training.

For those if you who think the demo is too easy, try leveling up your mount (i.e. the captured giant rat). That particular minigame adds a timer; I've gotten up to level 14, which gives you 4 seconds per move before it penalizes you.

- Alan
I just completed the short included main story line, I would have bought the game just for what I have seen so far. Toss in captured mounts and cities, item forging, companions, etc and it just seems like a must buy. I really dislike the idea of timed events though.

Soldats

03-18-2007, 03:44 AM

The demo is a lot of fun and I can't wait for the full version now. I'm going to miss the nice looking graphics on the PC demo when I move to my DS though; I hope they release the PC version soon after so I can buy that too. Steve Fawkner deserves all the money I can throw at him for the Warlords series.

McBain

03-18-2007, 06:23 AM

This game is awesome. When is the PC version coming out? I am compelled to hand these people my money.

Jim Preston

03-18-2007, 07:06 AM

Add my voice to the chorus loving this game. For those who haven't checked it out, download the demo here (http://www.gamedaily.com/canvases/gd/_a/download-puzzle-quest-demo/20070315101009990002).

forgeforsaken

03-18-2007, 07:53 AM

So who is liking what character classes? Right now, I think I like the Warrior.

Misguided

03-18-2007, 08:18 AM

So who is liking what character classes? Right now, I think I like the Warrior.

That's funny...I found the Warrior to be the toughest to play, at least early. I'm partial to the knight.

Joel

03-18-2007, 09:05 AM

I hated the Wizard until I figured out how to start hammering in series of fire attacks by boosting your air and fire stats. I did okay with the warrior once I started using those "clear all blue and yellow" attacks along with the one that gives you a bonus for skulls on the board. Both classes felt a lot more "risky" than the druid, though. That healing power is hard to let go, even though it's easy to work yourself into a corner with it.

Also, yes, god damn it. I want the full game right now. Where is it! Their website is in terrible upkeep.

Jim Preston

03-18-2007, 09:29 AM

Ummm...I gonna disagree with Joel a little on the wizard. I think it's the weakest class (at least up to level 7) because of its heavy dependence on expensive spells. Whenever the board is reset everyone loses all their mana, which can often be a boon for opponents because 1) if the opponent gets next move a 4-way is almost always available just be sheer random luck, 2) an immediate skull attack is often availabe and 3) many opponents have less expensive spells they can bring into play earlier. Given that the wizard has poor health and battle, a couple of games that were neck-and-neck were soon over for me when the board reset and wiped my mana reserves.

The druid, on the other hand, not only has pretty good health, but he has some very nice inexpensive spells. That calm spell that removes haste from your opponent is fantastic and amazingly cheap, so if the board resets I can get to it quickly, especially against that annoying vampire bat. Likewise, the ability to heal is a game-changer to me as you can not only concentrate on those green/yellows but use other spells to boost your green/yellow reserves, sometimes salvaging 10+ points of health. I've had battles where I ran the enemy of the board and never even got close to 50% health.

I've only messed around with the Knight and Warrior so far, but in the early levels I've had the most success with the Druid.

forgeforsaken

03-18-2007, 09:34 AM

Battles seem to last much longer with the Druid though, as he doesn't have a lot of damage ability. The warrior can put the hurt down fast.

LordGek

03-18-2007, 09:38 AM

Battles seem to last much longer with the Druid though, as he doesn't have a lot of damage ability. The warrior can put the hurt down fast.

Exactly, given time the Druid can keep heling himself and maybe even entangle his opponent for a few free moves, BUT it takes quite a while before the druid can do much more than heal himself and just prolong the battle.

forgeforsaken

03-18-2007, 09:53 AM

I will say the Druid might be the best character to grind for money/exp with though.

Quaro

03-18-2007, 10:37 AM

Alan Au

03-18-2007, 10:39 AM

I tried the Knight, but the XP bonuses don't help when you're capped at level 7 anyway. The Mage is okay with some decent damage-dealing capability, but I've found that the Warrior is the most effective at defeating opponents quickly; it's easy to do that last 25 damage between the "cleave" and "throw axe" skills.

- Alan

Merakon

03-18-2007, 11:08 AM

It's pretty cool. Great production values.

The only problem I have with it so far is that I'm not particularly fond of the basic moment-to-moment gameplay. Your decisions come down to balancing your current opportunity while also minimizing the chances for something to drop well for your opponent. I think it really needs a turn timer to emphasize the tension in this kind of decision-making. Without a timer, the emphasis seems wrong. Are you presented with a turn timer at any point?

forgeforsaken

03-18-2007, 11:19 AM

I enjoyed this demo a lot. It really needs a difficulty toggle that adds a couple of things though: a penalty for death, and a turn timer. How cool would be to have to take your turns in 3 seconds when fighting a ninja, but the ninja has very little health to balance it out.

There is a difficulty select and turn timer in the settings, not sure if they were enablable in the demo, but they are there.

Jason Lutes

03-18-2007, 11:28 AM

I can't imagine an Iron Man mode working in this game. It seems too random and unpredictable with the battles, hence the no penalty for dying. A couple of times I started a battle with the enemy already having gone first, and basically cutting my health down to a 1/3rd because they got extremely lucky board setups. Luck seems to play a bit too much into this game, then again I have never liked Bejeweled, and suck at it to boot. Somehow though I am still wildly addicited just by the short PC demo.
Yeah, that's certainly true. I guess for Iron Man mode I wasn't thinking that the game would end with perma-death, just thst you had one save slot and had to live with death penalties, which could be things like losing all items and gold and starting back your citadel, stuff like that. I know that that's just another time penalty, which is currently how it works, but it would just feel more contextually satisfying to me.

Or, barring that, some sort of running campaign score that gives you experience bonuses for winning battles efficiently.

A turn timer would inject the sense of tension that I feel is missing right now. I read on the boards that the older version of the game had turn timers that varied with the difficulty level. It looks like they may have stripped that out of the final version (with the exception of the minigame Alan mentioned). Another thing that might work (but which I imagine is somewhere down the road in the evolution of this new hybrid genre) is if Lord Bane's forces grew incrementally in strength (and reward value) each time you failed a battle, so you had a sense of growing doom.

Anything to up the ante, really. I just want to feel like something's at stake and have that built into the mechanics somehow.

Quaro

03-18-2007, 11:33 AM

Time per turn would really be best if it were integrated into the gameplay. Items that give you more time or take time away from your opponents, etc. I really like the idea that you might fight enemies who are otherwise weak but you don't have enough time so you miss the obvious 4 matches and whatnot.

Misguided

03-18-2007, 12:38 PM

By the way, if you buy a forge, they give you three basic runes that you can use to try out the crafting mini-game.

LordGek

03-18-2007, 02:16 PM

By the way, if you buy a forge, they give you three basic runes that you can use to try out the crafting mini-game.

But getting those additional runes, from 14-16th level baddies, now THAT is a challenge when stuck at 7th level! Although if the temple is fully functional, maybe if you work at it long enough you can simplt buy your stats to whatever degree.

Jason Lutes

03-18-2007, 02:31 PM

There is a difficulty select and turn timer in the settings, not sure if they were enablable in the demo, but they are there.
They aren't enabled in the demo, so that's great to hear. Optional time limits and difficulty settings is probably all I need to satisfy my desire for tension in the game.

LordGek

03-18-2007, 05:07 PM

They aren't enabled in the demo, so that's great to hear. Optional time limits and difficulty settings is probably all I need to satisfy my desire for tension in the game.

Not in the main quest, I guess, but they are there in Instant Action where you can both choose whether you want the AI's level scaled to yours AND if you want an Easy (-25% exp), Normal, or Hard (+25% exp) opponent. Not sure if the exp is what you got as your experience reward being decreased/increased or if this is what the opponent's level will be set relative to yours.

Misguided

03-18-2007, 05:23 PM

Alan Au

03-18-2007, 05:49 PM

If you want an interesting fight, try facing a Citadel. They don't use mana, but they have "equipment" like gates and boiling oil that decreases the damage they suffer and lets them dish it out. They have a lot of hit points and when they hit, they hit hard.Yeah, those citadels are brutal. I finally managed to beat them after purchasing about 30-levels-worth of stat upgrades.

- Alan

Jab

03-18-2007, 06:37 PM

So is there any indication that the pc version will have more features then the ds version, this game is sounding interesting to me I only played Bejeweled a few times though.

Poops McGee

03-18-2007, 08:00 PM

The giant bat's vampirism spell can lick my bawls.

I'm still buyin' the game, tho'.

Misguided

03-18-2007, 08:02 PM

Yeah, those citadels are brutal. I finally managed to beat them after purchasing about 30-levels-worth of stat upgrades.

- Alan

I actually don't have a temple, so no stat upgrades here. My equipment is also still pretty meager, though I did craft a dagger with the basic runes they give you. Rather than brute force it, I played a very deliberate game, making moves that were as safe as I could, while trying to build up mana reserves, then using stun and thrust liberally when necessary to remove skulls off of the board. It was a completely different style of match than any other I had played (at least it felt different) and I think that kind of experience bodes well for the longevity of the game. I'm hoping that further into the game, some of the cities will have special powers to bring to bear as well.

Edit: LOL, yeah that vampirism ability is brutal. That's one ability I'd love to learn for my characters. That was another match which was a striking variation on the basic idea, because letting your opponent acquire yellow, and especially red mana will eat you alive.

shang

03-19-2007, 02:10 AM

My DS version just arrived in the mail. Some very very early impressions compared to the PC demo:

Pros:
* The game mechanics are great for short bursts portable gaming
* Touch screen controls work well

Cons:
* Only two character slots. I really would've like to have one slot per character class at least. Now I have no idea what two classes to drop.
* The text is a bit fuzzy and small on some screens
* The graphics look like they were just scaled down from the PC version instead of being retouched for the DS resolution. This gives some visuals a very "cheap" look and it's a bit difficult to e.g. tell skulls apart from +5 skulls.

I think the inevitable PC version will end up being the best version to get.

Misguided

03-19-2007, 04:26 AM

* The graphics look like they were just scaled down from the PC version instead of being retouched for the DS resolution. This gives some visuals a very "cheap" look and it's a bit difficult to e.g. tell skulls apart from +5 skulls.

I think the inevitable PC version will end up being the best version to get.

I knew about the two character slot limitation, but squintiness of the visuals was my biggest concern. I hope it isn't too bad. Incidentally is that on an older DS or a Lite?

Good to hear the touch control is good.

dannimal

03-19-2007, 09:04 AM

Why only two character slots? Ugh.

Chowhound

03-19-2007, 10:30 AM

There's a PC demo available now:

http://www.gamedaily.com/canvases/gd/_a/download-puzzle-quest-demo/20070315101009990002

McBain

03-19-2007, 10:39 AM

Dude, that demo was posted like 4 pages ago.

I want the full version. NOW.

HEY STEVE FAWKNER, LET ME GIVE YOU MY MONEY GOD DAMMIT

Jason Lutes

03-19-2007, 10:41 AM

There's a PC demo available now:
WTF you think we've been yapping about for the past 3 pages? *raspberry*

peacedog

03-19-2007, 03:32 PM

flyinj

03-19-2007, 03:35 PM

The PC demo is a blast to play. And it seems like a great "road" game for a handheld. Still, I've got some doubts about the DS version based on comments here and eslewhere, as well as things like the 2 character maximum.

What are the negative DS comments? I just decided to go DS over PSP because of the stylus support... ugh.

LordGek

03-19-2007, 04:17 PM

What are the negative DS comments? I just decided to go DS over PSP because of the stylus support... ugh.

Just heard graphics were a little pixelated, like it just was scaled down from the PC/PSP version and you only get two character save slots.

On the other hand, on the DS you get the stylus support and MUCH faster loading times than you'll see with the PSP (which I'm sure will be a pain when they decide to load the pointless little animated dialog bits between battles).

peacedog

03-19-2007, 07:17 PM

What are the negative DS comments? I just decided to go DS over PSP because of the stylus support... ugh.
I'm a little worried about the text size and such, as well as the two save slot thing. I can understand it being limited, but 2 slots would already be crimping my style (I've got active games for every single hero in the PC demo). It probably won't matter in the long run, but it is a little irksome.

I don't own a PSP, fwiw.

Alan Au

03-19-2007, 11:38 PM

I want the full version. NOW.

HEY STEVE FAWKNER, LET ME GIVE YOU MY MONEY GOD DAMMIT
No kidding; it really sucks having a level 7 guy with tens of thousands of saved-up XP and nothing to spend it on.

- Alan

CustodianV131

03-20-2007, 02:30 AM

I've no problems at all with the text size in the DS version. Its tiny but clear imo. Also the gameboard is very clear imo, no mistakes here on what's where even with the +5 skulls.

If you hop over from the PC to the DS version it is small, but after you played a few boards you don’t notice it anymore. When this comes out for the XBOX360 and you play it on a BIG screen, even the PC version will feel small after that :D Wonder why they don’t plan a Wii version. Seems great for that controller.

The stylus is just great, control the whole game with it. 90% of your playing time is spent on the gameboard, I wouldn't want a non mouse/stylus control scheme for that for sure!

I’ve no idea how the PSP version plays, all I can say the DS version is great!

AndrewM

03-20-2007, 06:29 AM

Jim Preston

03-20-2007, 07:02 AM

I played the demo yesterday. It is pretty cool, but I think sadly I don't like the core match-3 game to really get into this. It seems a little tedious, trying to find places where you can get 4 in a row and whatnot. Does it get easier after a while? Bear in mind that you're not simply trying to match 3; you're trying to match 3 in a color that you need while simultaneously trying to deny your opponent their resources. It's not actually that hard to find 3 to match, but the challenge is making the strategic decision of which 3. Matching 4 is always a bonus, of course, because it gives you a free move, but sometimes it is not always the best move because it can set your opponent up for some skulls or a multiplier.

I agree that the match-3 mechanic is tedious - it's one of the reasons I can't stand all the Bejewled knock-offs - but this game actually adds consequences to which 3 to match which just vaults this mechanic into an entirely more interesting orbit to me.

dannimal

03-20-2007, 10:40 AM

Not only that, but there are a TON of skills (both available to PCs and only available to NPCs) that circumvent the match-3 mechanic. "Eat Skulls" or "Divine Right" (I think that's the Knight skill that clears all the purple stars), or whatever.

slantz

03-20-2007, 10:42 AM

Not only that, but there are a TON of skills (both available to PCs and only available to NPCs)
It's my understanding that any skill available to an NPC can be obtained by players by capturing that unit, putting them in the dungeon, and playing a minigame to learn the skill.

I can't vouch that *all* skills are available this way, but most of them are.

Marcus

03-20-2007, 11:35 AM

Anyone see if Frys had this on sale?

AndrewM

03-20-2007, 12:18 PM

Alan Au

03-20-2007, 12:32 PM

AndrewM

03-20-2007, 12:34 PM

It's my understanding that any skill available to an NPC can be obtained by players by capturing that unit, putting them in the dungeon, and playing a minigame to learn the skill.

Here are some details about the capturing. First, I built a dungeon and a tower. Then I captured a skeleton, using that patrol quest you can repeat. In order to capture it, you have a very puzzle-ish minigame with a partially filled board. You have to eliminate all of the gems. After you have captured the skeleton, there are two different spells you can learn. To learn a spell, you have to play a separate minigame. For at least the first spell, you play the basic match-game solo, where you have to accumulate a certain amount of each color mana. In addition, you have to accumulate scrolls. A scroll randomly appears somewhere on the board whenever you get a match-4. If the game reaches a point where you can't make any more moves, you lose. The need to match scrolls is annoying. I haven't gotten any spells yet, despite the first one being categorized as "easy". I did manage to get 3 or 4 scrolls on the board, but not together. I don't recall if I lost or just gave up in disgust.

forgeforsaken

03-20-2007, 12:34 PM

Some look like they combo well, like the power that gives health for every exp removed, and then you use the exp eater power.

Alan Au

03-20-2007, 01:02 PM

The need to match scrolls is annoying. I haven't gotten any spells yet, despite the first one being categorized as "easy". I did manage to get 3 or 4 scrolls on the board, but not together. I don't recall if I lost or just gave up in disgust.
Actually, the scroll appears at the location of the piece you moved to get the match-4. The two tricks to the research minigame are to keep track of the lowest and highest color requirements. Bonuses should be used on the high ones, and the hitting the low quotas can be used to declutter the board (they do a remove-all-matching when you meet the quota).

- Alan

dannimal

03-20-2007, 01:41 PM

Sure, but those ones that eliminate blocks of whatever type are worse. It seems like whenever I do that it just opens up a chance for the computer to match-4 over and over again. Should I be examining the consequences of removing all of the yellow squares from the board? Seems like a pain. Right now, I'm stuck on the vampire bat and Darkhunter quests. The enemies just demolish me, and I'm at the level cap, so losing over and over again doesn't get me anything. Maybe I should grind for cash to try to get some good equipment. I spent my money on keep upgrades which might have been a bad idea. I should probably also read over this thread, as I ignored it initially, not realizing it was a PC game.

Well, it's not a PC game...yet. The demo is PC, but the full version won't be available until some time after the handheld/console releases.

And yes, you should examine the consequence of removing all the yellow gems. If it seems like a pain, maybe it's not the game for you. It feels like you're asking "Should I be examining the consequences of moving my pawn?" in chess. I mean, you don't have to, but you'll probably get crushed. I'm not trying to sound like a dick, but if you don't like the kind of planning/strategy in a game, there's not much that can save it.

The Vampire Bat is tough in the demo because of the level cap. I wasn't able to beat it (although I haven't tried to grind and buy spells/items). The Zombie can be a hassle because of "Eat Skulls", but if you either make an effort to block his access to the mana needed for the spell or happen to be a class that also needs that mana, it's a little easier.

forgeforsaken

03-20-2007, 01:45 PM

The Troll was the hardest fight for me in the demo. He kept racking up the blues a few times, and it was just heal heal heal.

Quaro

03-20-2007, 02:21 PM

I thought the Wizard was alright, but then I played through the Demo again as a Warrior and he just cut through everyone. If you build up mana as a wizard, sure, you can blast them a few times. But as a Warrior you can do the same thing but with much, much more damage. Holy cow.

Against the troll, the Wizard's mana burn was useful. Probably the most useful Wizard spell since you can maintain an edge with it. But the warrior can keep his edge by effecting the board. Being able to eliminate all of one color or to knock out a ring around a target lets you control the enemy pretty well. And you do massively more damage with every skull match and direct damage spell.

I think the Druid with all the mirror equipment would be really nasty, but slow to play.

dannimal

03-20-2007, 03:15 PM

And, nobody around me has a copy today, so fuck them. Fuck them in their stupid asses. One store said "Well, it's active in my system but I've never heard of it"

At least nobody tried to scold me for not pre-ordering.

AndrewM

03-20-2007, 03:26 PM

I'm not trying to sound like a dick, but if you don't like the kind of planning/strategy in a game, there's not much that can save it.

No, that's fine. I just want to make sure I'm not missing something.

slantz

03-20-2007, 03:51 PM

At least nobody tried to scold me for not pre-ordering.
You wouldn't have been able to pre-order it anyway. It is a black hole in EB's system. You ask a clerk about it, and smoke comes out of their ears when they look it up on their computers

I think today's the ship date, and the actual release day is tomorrow.

We pre-ordered copies from Amazon, but come today they now say:
Availability: In stock soon. Order now to get in line. First come, first served.

Has *anyone* gotten this from retail yet? If so, where? This question is open through tomorrow.

Dave Long

03-20-2007, 04:01 PM

Target lists it online. I think it's worth checking there on like Friday.

http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/sr=1-1/qid=1174431660/ref=sr_1_1/602-1941516-9335848?ie=UTF8&asin=B000GH3PYA

Poops McGee

03-20-2007, 04:09 PM

I finally managed to beat the vampire bat by focusing more on keeping him from using his dirty tricks and less on damaging. I would take jabs at him only when I knew I'd have another move afterwards that was harmful to him. Making sure he didn't have the gems he needed worked out well for me.

Vampirism is an awesome spell, though. Can it be learned, I wonder...

Seattle area stores: *scratch head* "I don't think we have that ye-...yeah, no, check tomorrow...and remember you can trade in your..." *click*

Damnit.

Xemu

03-20-2007, 04:26 PM

yeah, damn Amazon, I pre-ordered with them and now they are saying 4-6 weeks. Fuckers.

Alan Au

03-20-2007, 04:36 PM

Vampirism is an awesome spell, though. Can it be learned, I wonder...
Yes, it can be learned. It's good for giving you an edge since it's a 12+ point swing. However, in most cases, I'd rather just hit my opponent for 12+ points of damage.

- Alan

Xemu

03-20-2007, 04:37 PM

Oh, and progress in getting it in Gamestop at least... I called 4 local stores and while none of them had it, it was at least showing up in their computers...

Misguided

03-20-2007, 05:23 PM

Oh, and progress in getting it in Gamestop at least... I called 4 local stores and while none of them had it, it was at least showing up in their computers...

It's been in the computer for weeks, it simply isn't available for preorder.
The game SHIPPED today...it won't be in stores until tomorrow at the earliest, and it could be as long as a week depending on how it gets shipped.

dannimal

03-20-2007, 05:26 PM

Gamestop was one of the places I hit (EBGames, which is the same thing only like 7 miles away was the other).

Best Buy had it listed as "3/21" and Target had something like "We know it's out there, so we might have it in a few days".

The GameStop/EBGames sites went from "pre-release! Pre-order today!" to "Add to Cart" at about 1:30p EDT (Boring training session today), but the "check your store!" link went from listing the local stores and saying "pre-order!" to telling me there were no stores in my area.

Jab

03-20-2007, 06:00 PM

same here, I asked the guy at eb today and he said they might get it in tomorrow, along with theme park.

tiohn

03-20-2007, 07:12 PM

That Target link lists 3/22 as the release date now.

I'm glad to know that I wasn't the only person spamming eb with phone calls today.

dannimal

03-20-2007, 09:12 PM

"Released" in the past has meant "in stores". Obviously, that's only true for bigger titles.

Oh well.

Misguided

03-21-2007, 03:53 AM

"Released" in the past has meant "in stores". Obviously, that's only true for bigger titles.

Oh well.

I'm not sure what you mean by "in the past" but it's been this way for at least a year and a half, which is how long I've been in the exciting profession of games retail. The exception to this is when a game has a street date (which may be what you are thinking of). In that case, the game is generally shipped well beforehand, but can't be sold until the street date, in order to make sure that all retailers have a chance to get it in stock.

Acoustic Rob

03-21-2007, 09:41 AM

Grr...Gamestop's little 'find a shop that carries this game' utility has suddenly decided this game doesn't exist. I drive past half a dozen of the stores on my way home, and don't want to call all of them to see whether anybody has it in stock today.

So yeah, I'm really looking forward to this. Stayed up way too late last night playing the demo to the level cap on all four classes. I think I like the knight best--a good mix of board-affecting and foe-targeting moves (shield bash FTW!), and the females are actually wearing armor that would stop a sword thrust!

Xemu

03-21-2007, 09:56 AM

Not having any luck with stores getting it today either -- post here if you find a copy!

dannimal

03-21-2007, 10:14 AM

Grr...Gamestop's little 'find a shop that carries this game' utility has suddenly decided this game doesn't exist. I drive past half a dozen of the stores on my way home, and don't want to call all of them to see whether anybody has it in stock today.

Ditto. Not even "Store X has 0 copies", it's just "Error - Black hole!"

Also, (and this has nothing to do with PQ) why have a "release date" if the game isn't in stores on that date?

Jab

03-21-2007, 10:23 AM

Nothing, the store near me did get in theme park , but no copies of puzzle quest.

flyinj

03-21-2007, 10:32 AM

Ditto. Not even "Store X has 0 copies", it's just "Error - Black hole!"

Also, (and this has nothing to do with PQ) why have a "release date" if the game isn't in stores on that date?

FWIW- EB's online store stock checker thing almost always does this for games that just shipped. After it finally realizes the game exists, it always lists 0 copies in every store. It doesn't reflect actual correct stocks of a game for about a week after it ships.

In other words, it's completely unreliable, unlike BestBuy's. You still have to call EB unfortunately.

dannimal

03-21-2007, 10:59 AM

It's not saying 0 copies in the store, though. It doesn't even find the stores near me that it would find on Monday (for PQ) or today (for any old game).

flyinj

03-21-2007, 11:25 AM

Gamespot scored the PSP version 4 points above the DS version. From the bad column of the DS version: cramped presentation affects gameplay.

Looks like I'm going for the PSP SKU.

Gamespot gave the PSP SKU an 8.5, the DS SKU an 8.1.

slantz

03-21-2007, 11:35 AM

You're assuming that game actually exists, and that they, you know, will actually make it available to people to buy.

So far, evidence is to the contrary.

nixon66

03-21-2007, 01:30 PM

You're assuming that game actually exists, and that they, you know, will actually make it available to people to buy.

Which is why I think I'll try and find the DS version online. Any good online store recommendations? With free shipping?

AndrewM

03-21-2007, 02:02 PM

Thanks to the advice in this thread, I went back and approached the game differently. Thinking of it more analytically made it more enjoyable, and I managed to finish the demo. Now I just have to wait six months for it to come out on a platform I own...

Misguided

03-21-2007, 04:53 PM

I've been unable to confirm that the game has even been shipped to my store, via overnight or ground. Given the fact that I specifically requested the title and supposedly had over half a dozen copies earmarked for my store, it could be that it hasn't shipped to any GS/EB stores yet.

slantz

03-21-2007, 05:07 PM

One local EB claimed that it would be in tomorrow, and the guy sounded certain. No other store had any idea what the situation was, so he either knew something the others didn't, or he's full of shit. I find the latter more likely.

Xemu

03-21-2007, 05:17 PM

Yeah, same situation here, no one has them or any indication when they will have them still.

On the upside, Gamestop now lists it as in-stock. So I placed a backup order with them... (yes, I am a tad obsessive). Given that Amazon delayed me 4 weeks, and the Amazon seller they had linked from there that claimed to have it in stock has mysteriously still not even confirmed my order after 24 hrs, I figure I better hedge my bets...

Justin Fletcher

03-21-2007, 06:27 PM

Found it at my local F.Y.E. (nee Coconuts) today. I think I got the only copy they had.

Nothing, the store near me did get in theme park , but no copies of puzzle quest. Well, my copy was filed upside down and backwards behind ThemePark, so maybe they've been careless at your store, too. Luckily, there wasn't much alphebetically between the copious copies of Pokemon and ThemePark, so I managed to stumble across it.

Gamespot scored the PSP version 4 points above the DS version. From the bad column of the DS version: cramped presentation affects gameplay. YMMV, and all of that, but I think if you haven't seen the PSP version (like me), you're not going to be bothered by the DS visuals. The icons are small but are still clear. I also don't have an issue seeing the glowing +5 skulls from the run-of-the-mill versions. Sure, the graphics and spell text could be crisper, but I don't think they'll cause eye strain. And in my book, the stylus control makes up for the lower amount of save slots.

I didn't play the PC demo and I'm not very far into the campaign, so I don't have a lot of impressions to report. However, the "thinking man's Bejeweled" gameplay has already got me hooked. I'm grateful there's no turn timer as I'm learning the game, but I wish there was an option for it when I improve (the timer options and difficulty settings do seem to be limited to the Instant Action mode).

I'll be interested to read what everyone else thinks (of either version). In the meantime,

Two things I'm wondering:

1) Is there a way to turn off the "hint" arrow that eventually shows up to point at a valid potential move? I'd like to find moves on my own without any hints. As far as I can tell, there's no way to turn it off. However, my workaround is to select an icon on the board as soon as it's my turn (usually the one in the lower left corner). That seems to disable the arrow. Of course, you have to be careful not to accidentally touch any of the icons around the one you selected or it will count it as a botched turn.

LeeAbe

03-21-2007, 07:07 PM

Given that Amazon delayed me 4 weeks, and the Amazon seller they had linked from there that claimed to have it in stock has mysteriously still not even confirmed my order after 24 hrs, I figure I better hedge my bets...

Through Amazon themselves they say it's not shipping until 29 March. Yet right below that it says 2 copies in stock with more on the way. I don't know whether to do next day air through them or wait and see what EB says tomorrow.

tiohn

03-22-2007, 07:12 AM

It appears that FYE is the way to go. The local EBs finally indicate that it exists, but none of them have it, but a couple of FYEs are stocking it.

dannimal

03-22-2007, 07:19 AM

I hadn't thought of FYE. There's one in the same mall as the EBGames, so I'll hit that on the way home and kill two birds with one stone.

For those of you with the luxury of choice between PSP and DS versions:

There is a bug in the PSP version - Companion abilities do not work. For example, Darkhunter does 10 damage to undead at the start of combat if he's in your party. That will not happen in the PSP version.

In the grand scheme, not a huge deal. The abilities aren't essential, but at least you can make the choice fully informed.

http://www.infinite-interactive.com/InfiniteForums/viewtopic.php?t=327

flyinj

03-22-2007, 10:58 AM

txa1265

03-22-2007, 11:11 AM

There is a bug in the PSP version

Now glad I haven't gotten it yet ;) Was getting the PSP version, recently changed my mind :D

LordGek

03-22-2007, 11:29 AM

Got my copy for the DS from a Gamestop here in Redding, CA...clearly not the first priority on big game shipments...so if I got it at my Gamestop it must be at many other GS/EBs.

GregB

03-22-2007, 12:22 PM

Yeah, it's out today at the EB/GS here in the Burlington, VT area.

Xemu

03-22-2007, 12:28 PM

Hm, maybe I will have to get the DS version after all... I had been leaning towards the PSP. Can you patch PSP titles?

dannimal

03-22-2007, 12:45 PM

If you read the thread I linked, II has no control over patching on the PSP side. They didn't do the dev or pub on that side.

Patching would be possible, but a huge pain in the ass. I wouldn't expect a patch (but maybe they'd fix the bug in a future pressing of UMDs).

GameStop/EB at least now lists all the stores in my area, but also says none of them have it in stock. At this point I just hope the inventory system is wrong.

Jason Lutes

03-22-2007, 01:01 PM

Hiro, you probably have the game by now, but I just picked up a copy at the EB in Pacific Place downtown (Seattle). Now I just have to wait until the kid's asleep tonight to dig in...

Xemu

03-22-2007, 01:22 PM

Woo, got a DS copy locally at Gamestop. Yay!

I have the PSP version coming in, I want to compare and decide whether the bigger screen for the PSP offsets living with that bug.

Of course the ultimate version would still be on the Xbox 360 but I'm not holding my breath.

Tom Chick

03-22-2007, 01:36 PM

That bug in the PSP version sucks. And not necessarily because it's significant, but because of how nonchalant the QA process much have been. Dig this comment from Fawkner on the Infinite Interactive forums:

With 1-2 days to go until Gold Master, a change was made to the code that caused this problem (it had been working bug free for 8-9 months up until then). The nature of the bug was such that it didn't do anything jarring - no crash, no real change of difficulty or balance - just the disappearance of a small feature that we'd all gotten accustomed to clicking past anyway.

In the general rush to get Gold Master, amidst fixing the bugs that were causing problems and making last minute balance changes, this one simply went unnoticed, because we'd all become used to ignoring it. The Sony testers no doubt missed it because they didn't know it was meant to work that way.

They didn't notice it because they were used to ignoring it? Sony didn't notice it because they didn't know it was supposed to work that way? What sort of QA were they doing over there? "It's not crashing, so we're good to go!"

It's an obvious bug that you'd notice very soon in a single player campaign when the skeletons you're fighting don't start with reduced hit points. How hard is that to a) notice, and b) understand how it works? It doesn't instill me with a lot of confidence about other parts of the game they must have gotten used to ignoring, or that Sony couldn't be bothered learn about.

-Tom

Lynxara

03-22-2007, 01:50 PM

That sounds about right for the level of QA Sony demands on PSP releases. Most of the awfulest, most shoddily-implemented games I've ever played have been Sony of America PSP releases. I've seen some stuff street that was basically unplayable. And then, I'm sure, Sony execs sit around wondering why no one wants to buy PSP software.

Anyway, I picked up the DS version as an impulse buy today. I am not disappointed.

Marcus

03-22-2007, 01:51 PM

If I could find the DS version I'd be getting that today for sure.

Jab

03-22-2007, 02:14 PM

I played the DS version and I didn't notice any hard to see icons , even using the older DS, the different skulls were easy to see the difference. I'll be picking it up this weekend when I'm not too busy. Even though I suck at combat, played the advance combat tutorial and lost twice but still had fun with it. Is the druid good for first time players, as he was the character I started out with.

EFlannum

03-22-2007, 02:19 PM

Just picked up the DS version at a gamestop, it was the last copy they had. Also went to Best buy and Circuit City to check and neither place had it. The DS version so far seems perfectly playable, I'm not finding it hard to distinguish icons from each other at all.

slantz

03-22-2007, 03:09 PM

Hiro, you probably have the game by now, but I just picked up a copy at the EB in Pacific Place downtown (Seattle). Now I just have to wait until the kid's asleep tonight to dig in...
Hah, no I'm home sick. So I'm still PQ-less. But that means of the 2 copies they got in, you got one, and my friend got the other.

Angrycoder

03-22-2007, 03:58 PM

I picked up the PSP version and I seriously think I'm going to trade it for the DS version.

The random whirring of the drive and pausing of the game every minute combined with load times for just about everything are really getting on my nerves.

Seriously, this is a match 3 game with some board game elements and a few special effects thrown in. If you can't fit that into the 32 megs of memory the PSP has, you have no business coding anything, much less games.

Marcus

03-22-2007, 04:01 PM

You could rip the game to the memory stick that might help.

Seriously, this is a match 3 game with some board game elements and a few special effects thrown in. If you can't fit that into the 32 megs of memory the PSP has, you have no business coding anything, much less games.

Also the total game size is 132MB so take that for what you will.

nixon66

03-22-2007, 04:17 PM

I got the single DC copy from the EB Games in Auburn, WA. Looking forward to firing it up tonight at home.

Marcus

03-22-2007, 07:48 PM

I managed to get the last (only?) copy from the Brea mall. I can't wait to fire it up.

I do have the PSP version as well and I'll see if I can do a side by side tonight.

Pogue Mahone

03-22-2007, 09:00 PM

I tried to find this game tonight, just on the strength of this thread, but no luck yet. Good job though Misguided, you got my interest.

extarbags

03-22-2007, 09:46 PM

Yeah, for reals. He probably sold twenty copies of this just to us, maybe twenty more to people we've told. Viral marketing at its finest.

Marcus

03-22-2007, 09:51 PM

So I put about an hour in on the PSP version and so far it plays pretty good. I couldn't handle the loading so I had to rip the game to the memory card but once I did that its smooth as butter.

I am gonna fire up the DS version here in a sec and see if that plays any better. From playing the PSP version though I really feel the need for the touch screen.

Graphically though the PSP version looks just as good as the PC demo.

Jason Lutes

03-22-2007, 09:57 PM

Misguided

03-23-2007, 04:38 AM

Hey, thanks guys :)

The bad part on my end:

There's an email at work yesterday morning, and PQ is on a list of titles sent overnight to arrive Thursday 3/22. JOY!

I pop over to the inventory screen and see that they only sent the PSP version. DESPAIR!

I fire off an email to the guy that helped me before. He CCs me on an email to the warehouse about the special ticket we had on the DS version and can they get it pulled and sent out today? JOY!

I get a final response that it has indeed gone into a shipment--to arrive next week--DESPAIR!

So now I have to wait until next week and entertain myself with the PC version until then. Oh well, at least I know it is on the way. There are only two stores in my area that have the DS version in stock. PSP availability looks decent, but not great.

Jim Preston

03-23-2007, 06:14 AM

Ok, up until about 1 am last night playing the PSP version. The UMD loads are certainly noticable, but it just didn't bother me the way it irked a lot of people here. Plays and looks just like the PC version, minus the companion bonuses, of course, which sucks. I was going to get the DS version, but EB only had the PSP, so I was stuck.

Now that I've advanced beyond 7, I can afford some weapons that open up the game even further. For example, I have a whip that causes 1 pt of damage every time a yellow match is made. Not a big deal, but the druid has a spell that can turn several random gems yellow, which allows you to look at both skulls and gems for doing damage. It makes the druid, a fairly weak character, have a real nice damage-per-turn average. So far, I'm digging it even more than the PC demo.

LordGek

03-23-2007, 06:21 AM

I'm enjoying the DS version so far. There's a lot of stuff in the early game that isn't in the demo. My only complaints are that the matching and damage sound effects aren't as crunchy-satisfying as in the demo, and that there's no way (that I can find) to get help info on enemy equipment. I think I will probably pick up the PC version when it comes out for that reason.

And yeah, thanks Misguided -- you've given my dusty old DS a new lease on life!

Actually, you can get info on anything on the top screen by hitting one of the should buttons causing top and bottom screens to switch in which case tapping on any item will give you a description and tapping on the portaraits will give you full stats.

Justin Fletcher

03-23-2007, 06:29 AM

I'm enjoying the DS version so far. There's a lot of stuff in the early game that isn't in the demo. My only complaints are that the matching and damage sound effects aren't as crunchy-satisfying as in the demo, and that there's no way (that I can find) to get help info on enemy equipment. I think I will probably pick up the PC version when it comes out for that reason.
I've also noticed that the music has this weird clipping effect, a rhythmic "chun chun chun" that lies under each piece. It might be a problem with compression; whatever it is, it drives me a little nuts. I could always play with it off, but I like having the mood music.

As for enemy equipment, hold down the left or right bumper to switch the portrait screen to the touchpad. You'll then be able to click on enemy equipment and spell effect icons to see what they do. You'll also be able to click on the enemy's portrait to see its stats.

PS Damn it, Gek!

tiohn

03-23-2007, 07:10 AM

I've also noticed the music clipping as well, but I actually kind of enjoy it. Probably because I've long had a soft spot for glitch.

What drives me nuts is how l can't see what's going on behind those 4- and 5-of-a-kind announcements when an enemy pulls off some insane series of moves because they take so long to fade away. I also hate that I often have to wait for them to go away to take my follow-ups.

Despite that, I'm loving the hell out of this game.

Gendal

03-23-2007, 07:31 AM

Picked up the DS version because it was the first I found. The text and graphics are not a problem, it's all very discernible, including the red skulls. They glow red, it's hard to miss. I actually like the interface, getting help is pretty easy once you figure it out, but you HAVE to use the touch screen for everything. That sucks, because it's giving me hand cramps trying to use it constantly. If I was sane, I would just put it down and do something else, but I am obviously not.

Thinking of picking up the PSP version if I can find it and ripping it to a memory card, I tried out the demo on it and liked it a bunch. The music sounds much better on the PSP than the DS, I too noticed the clipping effect.

Erik

03-23-2007, 07:42 AM

I have both versions.

The stylus control on the DS version drove me crazy. Just way too touchy and, oddly, sort of complicated (especially when accessing help text). But I'm not a fan of stylus-controlled games to begin with.

On the other hand, the big, bright PSP screen and the PSP controls are terrific. And, as someone else pointed out, if you rip the PSP version to a memory card, the loads are basically non-existent. It's tiny, too - about 70 meg. So the PSP version wins for me in pretty much every meaningful way except for the companion skills bug.

Xemu

03-23-2007, 07:48 AM

Since I've got the PSP version coming and I want to do some comparison play, how does one go about ripping a UMD to your memory card to use it as a disc cache?

Jason Lutes

03-23-2007, 07:49 AM

Actually, you can get info on anything on the top screen by hitting one of the should buttons causing top and bottom screens to switch in which case tapping on any item will give you a description and tapping on the portaraits will give you full stats.
Thank you!

dannimal

03-23-2007, 07:53 AM

So the GameStop, despite website claims to the contrary, did in fact have it in stock when I stopped on the way home. Huzzah.

Good:

- Love that the demo wasn't the full 1-7 story. Was cool to find a couple of smaller questlines early on to break up the "I've done this already" doldrums.

- Continues to be fun past level 7.

- Everything that was good about the demo is still good.

- Rumors add life to the world.

Bad:

- Either my DS is flaky, or there's sound issues. I haven't tried headphones, it might be my speakers. But not a big fan of the sound, coming from PC.

- The touchscreen aspects seem "twitchy". When I click on a gem it'll register two touches so select/unselect. This is bad when I'm trying to get info on my newer spells, since I end up casting instead of getting help.

- The graphics are different. Nothing that can be done, but coming from the PC demo, I got spoiled.

- Multi-player is direct wireless and both people need a card. I'd love to play this online with you guys. I'd also probably be able to sell a few copies if I could play direct wireless via download.

The good far outweighs the bad. It's easily a "one more fight" game that ends up embodying the QT3 name.

Gendal

03-23-2007, 09:14 AM

Since I've got the PSP version coming and I want to do some comparison play, how does one go about ripping a UMD to your memory card to use it as a disc cache?
You have to hack it first, which ideally means putting one of the custom firmwares on it like 3.10OE. Depending on what version firmware you are running this could be easy (1.5) or hard (requires old version of GTA:Liberty Stories).

Jason Lutes

03-23-2007, 03:08 PM

- Either my DS is flaky, or there's sound issues. I haven't tried headphones, it might be my speakers. But not a big fan of the sound, coming from PC.
There are definitely sound issues. I set the sound effects to "Loud" and music to "Very Soft" and the reverse appears to happen.

I'm still loving the game overall, though. There's a metric ton of gameplay packed in there. I just spent half an hour levelling my Giant Rat mount and would keep going if I didn't have other things I need to do right now. I love how once you get a mount it shows you riding it on the overland map! Also really enjoying the way the Druid is playing and getting into a groove with his abilities.

slantz

03-23-2007, 03:27 PM

I hate all of you that have this game.

txa1265

03-23-2007, 04:29 PM

I hate all of you that have this game.

Sorry ;) (ok, not really)

I got the one and only copy out of 4 stores in my area, which was PSP.

Odysseus

03-23-2007, 04:33 PM

I hate all of you that have this game.

I do, too, and my hate will slowly intensify until the PC version comes out.

flyinj

03-23-2007, 04:40 PM

Ok, I found the PSP version. It sucks that it has that huge bug in it, but it sounds like a better comprimise than dodgy stylus controls. I also will be playing it on the train, which is way too bumpy for accurate stylusing regardless.

GregB

03-23-2007, 05:13 PM

I've been playing this on the DS quite a bit over the last day or so and I haven't encountered any flaky stylus problems.

EFlannum

03-23-2007, 05:45 PM

I've been playing this on the DS quite a bit over the last day or so and I haven't encountered any flaky stylus problems.

I think that all depends on how adept a stylist... stylusist... you are. I also haven't had any problems but my wife had a little bit of a learning curve getting comfortable with it.

Gendal

03-23-2007, 06:22 PM

Flaky is a bad description of the DS stylus and Puzzle Quest. It's not the DS that is flaking out, it's the user, because the stupid circles are so small. It seems to be 100% accurate, but that doesn't mean you won't get careless and hit the wrong spot sometimes.

slantz

03-23-2007, 06:34 PM

By the way, I finally got a copy (DS). The manager of the local Game Crazy evidently set one aside for me, for "the guy who keeps calling about it."

When I called to see if they had any in, the guy asked me if I'd called a few times over the last few days. When I said yes, he said they'd held me a copy, despite not knowing my name.

w00t.

Too bad about the various issues with the ports. DS has sound problems (heard it on a co-worker's) and lack of d-pad controls, PSP has glaring bug and, well, is on a PSP. I'll probably pick up the PC version too when it comes out. Or on XBLA, whichever comes first.

dannimal

03-23-2007, 07:25 PM

My stylus issues aren't accuracy related, they're "register two taps at once" related.

I do love the "shoulder button swaps screens" feature, though. Being able to swap and then tap anything and get info is sweet.

flyinj

03-23-2007, 08:08 PM

Oh my god. I can't stop playing this game. It's so goddamn addictive.

I'm playing the PSP version. I don't have a problem with the load times at all... there are some pauses here and there, but it's dealable. I hope the bug isn't too major. The graphics, however, look very nice on it. Great sound too.

I mean, every battle takes an hour! There is a ton of content in this thing.

Jab

03-23-2007, 09:17 PM

Does anyone have an idea when the pc version is coming out? I'm planning on picking up the DS version tomorrow, but if it's only a month away I could probably wait that long.

flyinj

03-24-2007, 04:31 AM

From what I've heard, the PC version is a long way away. The demo was released to hype the handheld versions. A full PC version isn't even announced.

Joel

03-24-2007, 06:07 AM

Loving this game so hard.

Misguided

03-24-2007, 06:23 AM

I hope to have mine on Monday. Bless them, they sent it 2-day instead of regular ground. That would really rock, because I have a day off next Tuesday.

McBain

03-24-2007, 07:48 AM

Does anyone have an idea when the pc version is coming out? I'm planning on picking up the DS version tomorrow, but if it's only a month away I could probably wait that long.

Not soon enough, dammit, not soon enough!

tylertoo

03-24-2007, 09:26 AM

The demo was released to hype the handheld versions.

That approach worked in my case: dl'ed the demo Thurs. night, bought the DS version on Friday.

Its a pretty good strategy IMHO. Has any other handheld published done that?

Joel

03-24-2007, 10:05 AM

CustodianV131

03-24-2007, 10:15 AM

Is it just me or is spell research about a billion times harder in the real game than the demo? I captured an ogre and was trying to win his spell and lost the puzzle like ten times in a row, no matter how many different strategies I took.

I've also a hard time acquiring spells. Think its the hardest variant of them all.

Still its a fun challenge and if I fail a couple of times in a row I go do some other puzzles to stay in a sane mind (As far as that is still possible) :)

AndrewM

03-24-2007, 10:20 AM

Seems only fair, as getting new spells is one of the biggest benefits of going up a level.

Marcus

03-24-2007, 10:38 AM

flyinj

03-24-2007, 12:21 PM

Well I've put in about 4 hours on the DS version so far and while it’s an amazing game I do have some negatives.

- The graphics. I really find the graphics sub par. The DS should be able to pump better graphics then this. Honestly and this is not a joke looking at the puzzle pieces it seems like I am playing the game on a cell phone. I guess it might be because the DS screen is a lower resolution but damn for me the PSP version just blows it away.

Yeah, the PSP has really good graphics. Definitely a big plus for that SKU.

- The touch screen. Yeah it’s great but while its not flaky its more finicky then anything.

It sucks they didn't implement being able to use either the stylus or the Dpad. I mean, the controls for the PSP version would directly translate to even the same physical locations on the DS. Just plain lazy on their part.

- The sound. Something just isn’t right with it and people have made comments on it in this thread so I won't elaborate on that.

The PSP has really good, clean sound.

-The speed. I am not really sure what is going on with this either but I seem to notice that the game pieces seem to move really slowly almost like the DS can't keep up.

The PSP lags when a spell effect is shown the first time in battle. Is that when the DS one lags as well? Subsequent spell effects show no lag. Also, the pieces never lag either.

Those are the negatives and most of them are really minor.

The negatives were enough for me to choose the PSP version, even with it's really lame no-party-effects bug. I'm very happy with that version.

Overall though, I think no matter what the SKU, it's an absolutely amazing game.

Marcus

03-24-2007, 12:37 PM

Overally though, I think no matter what the SKU, it's an absolutely amazing game.

Really that is the short and long of it. Its a great game no matter which portable you buy it for.

Jab

03-24-2007, 06:30 PM

I've been playing it for the last few hours, pretty fun so far. The sound quality is abit on the crappy side on the Ds version, I have it on mute while playing. Is it better in the beginning to put all your points into the battle stat?

Jonathan Blow

03-24-2007, 06:57 PM

So I played the PC demo up until it said the demo was done (I had just got Darkhunter as a companion). And it didn't seem like an amazing game to me, though I am totally open to the possibility that the demo didn't show the good part, or I had an unlucky play experience.

Basically, the game felt to me like I couldn't do very much in the way of deliberate actions during the puzzle parts... I couldn't make a plan and execute on it, I couldn't strategize, mostly I just had to maximize whatever the board was presenting me with right that minute.

And it seemed like the game cheated pretty heavily -- whoever was losing, the other player's moves would mysteriously cause skulls to appear in the top empty slots in just the right places such that it sets up an attack for the losing player. (i.e. the analogue of rubber band AI in racing games). It seemed to happen like 4 times out of 5, and it was really lame, because when I was ahead, even if I was making relatively smart moves, I felt like I was punished for it. Maybe that was just really bad luck... but it happened A LOT.

Anyway, I really *wanted* to like the game but it just came across as meh. So, what is appealing to you guys?

Quaro

03-24-2007, 07:01 PM

I never noticed any rubber banding -- on my second play through, I rarely got below half health. Did you try any of the more challenging fights like the Troll?

Jonathan Blow

03-24-2007, 07:14 PM

There was a troll in the demo? I guess I fought some various things but I don't even remember what they were since it was all just about playing match 3 in the same way.

Anyway... regardless of whether there was really rubber banding or I just got unlucky... I still didn't feel that the matching part of the game was very interesting, even compared to plain old match 3 clone games. So I am just trying to figure out what I missed.

Tom Chick

03-24-2007, 07:27 PM

Jonathan, I have no idea whether it cheats or not, but if it does, I haven't noticed. But based on the design, why would they bother to put in a cheat like that? If anything, I get screwed by the fact that the AI has a much better eye than me for the occasion 4- and 5-of-a-kinds. What's more, the AI obviously misses some good moves when it's playing a "dumber" creature or when the difficulty level is dialed down. Part of what I like about the game is the utter transparency of the game mechanics, combined with a healthy does of luck-of-the-draw. Conveniently stacked skulls in the AI's favor pretty much goes against that, so I'd be surprised if it was designed that way.

As for not noticing whether you were fighting a troll, I definitely started to appreciate different opponents based on their spells, equipment, and special abilities. Trolls are not only effective bruisers with decent battle skill (and therefore a damage bonus for matching skulls), but they can freely convert blue mana into healing. Therefore, part of your strategy is keeping blue mana from them.

As another example, among the early creatures, did you notice that rats and zombies can really make it difficult to build up mana with their plague and disease, respectively? If you're playing a spellcaster who relies on storing up mana for spells, you have to make sure they don't damage you if you can help it. This means playing defensively rather than playing for mana.

If the game doesn't click for you, that's cool. But there's a lot more here than just another match-3 clone. Instead, there's a reason to play, and a reason to play in certain ways.

-Tom

Misguided

03-24-2007, 08:10 PM

Woohoo! Got my copies earlier than expected.
I wish the icons were bigger on the DS screen, but I expected that. I think it's going to be hard to spot 4s on the smaller screen.
I don't find the yellow and green that hard to distinguish but it could have been better.
No trouble with stylus control here in the early going. Not sure why people think this is "flaky".

The sound balance is waaaay off. I've adjusted the sound effects to Loud and the music to quiet or very quiet.

The red text used in spots is hard to read.

I DID have a big time scare when the game locked up after I closed the lid during a fight to pause. I had to power off the DS which then froze during restart. On restart #2, it said there was no DS cart. Third time was the charm. Still...scary. My save data was fine, and I've been unable to replicate it.

This is probably a total coincidence, but I had two heroic efforts in one fight, and I had them a few times with the PC and PSP demos in many hours of play. I went from level 2 to level 5.

Justin Fletcher

03-24-2007, 08:48 PM

RE: Convenient Skulls

I've wanted to throw my DS at the wall several times today, as it seemed that no matter what move I made, skulls would fall in precisely the right position for the enemy, especially if +5s were involved. Zzzzzzaaaaaapppp! It happened so many times in a row that I was convinced that the AI must be cheating.

However, I now think that columns that have skulls in them or those immediately adjacent have a higher chance to spawn skulls than those that don't. That's speculation, of course, but when I changed my strategy to avoid skull columns once two or more skulls got close to each other, the rate of "lucky draws" for the enemy dropped dramatically.

So I don't think the AI is cheating. I just think it's a calculated risk for either player to mess with skull columns once the skulls start to group up.

Xemu

03-24-2007, 09:00 PM

I got to level 8 or so on both the DS and PSP versions. The PSP version seems far more polished and "complete", for lack of a better term, which is ironic considering that the companion bug essentially removes that entire feature from the game.

I definitely like the control scheme better on the PSP and it is much easier to see what's going on. Not that either of those are a huge problem on the DS but I find the touch-only UI just a lot more annoying.

So now I'm torn... keep playing what feels like the better version of the game on the PSP, or accept the DS version in order to get all the features...

Quaro

03-24-2007, 09:03 PM

After the demo ends, you can still wander the map and fight a few creatures such as the Troll and the Vampire Bat. They are a bit harder than the other fights.

GregB

03-24-2007, 09:16 PM

The sound balance is waaaay off. I've adjusted the sound effects to Loud and the music to quiet or very quiet.

Turns out there's a sound bug in the DS version. The sound levels don't "stick". They reset to the default levels any time you save and quit the game. So you have to go into options and set them manually each time.

So even if you see that you have the music set to "Very Quiet" you have to deselect it and reselect it each time you play. Not sure how they missed that one, but at least it has to effect on the gameplay.

McBain

03-24-2007, 09:24 PM

So I don't think the AI is cheating. I just think it's a calculated risk for either player to mess with skull columns once the skulls start to group up.

Yup.

Good rule of thumb: If you don't want a skull dropping there, don't fuck with the column.

Marcus

03-24-2007, 09:25 PM

What I find really interesting is that both games each have a different glaring bug.

Even with the quarks and bugs this game is 100% pure awesome. I have honestly put 6+ hours in to it in just a few days.

BobJustBob

03-24-2007, 09:43 PM

After the demo ends, you can still wander the map and fight a few creatures such as the Troll and the Vampire Bat. They are a bit harder than the other fights.

Or you can build the item forging building, and some of the rune-guarding monsters are quite hard. Or you can build the siege equipment or whatever it is that lets you assault other towns, and those citadels are almost impossibly hard.

soondifferent

03-24-2007, 09:51 PM

It really sucks that there's only two save slots on the DS. Any recommendations on classes? I've gotten a wizard to level 9, but I'm not impressed. Haste and Fire shield seems pretty useless. I can see Mana Burn being useful against later enemies, but so far I'm relying on Fire Bolt to do any kind of real damage.

Tom Chick

03-24-2007, 09:56 PM

Turns out there's a sound bug in the DS version. The sound levels don't "stick". They reset to the default levels any time you save and quit the game. So you have to go into options and set them manually each time.

That would be a pretty serious bug to miss, but I don't think you're right, Greg. I have the music set to 'off' and despite repeated saves and quits, it's never reset to the default level. So I tried setting the music to 'quiet', and even after saving and quitting, it stayed 'quiet'.

-Tom

Jonathan Blow

03-24-2007, 10:57 PM

If they release a patched version on the PSP, I will probably buy it just to play further and see how it is. (I, uhh, lost my PSP a long time ago, but I will have to buy a new one to play Crush, anyway).

But I seem to be the designated Hater of Handheld Games That Everyone Else Likes. (cf. the Elite Beat Agents thread).

Justin Fletcher

03-24-2007, 11:00 PM

That would be a pretty serious bug to miss, but I don't think you're right, Greg. I have the music set to 'off' and despite repeated saves and quits, it's never reset to the default level. So I tried setting the music to 'quiet', and even after saving and quitting, it stayed 'quiet'.
Maybe it's not a release-wide bug, but I can replicate it. I have my sound set to "soft." When I reboot, the setting says "soft," but it is actually at the "loud" setting. I know this because when I switch the setting to "loud," the volume stays the same. Choosing any other setting makes the volume decrease.

However, if you turn it off, it will stay off.

metta

03-25-2007, 05:06 AM

I have the DS version and grown a warrior to level 16. I have no sound bugs, no slowdowns, and no problems with the gem contrast. I agree this game is a sugar high addiction, but if you never liked Bejeweled you'll hate it. (I'm using a DS Lite.)

Misguided

03-25-2007, 05:44 AM

Maybe it's not a release-wide bug, but I can replicate it. I have my sound set to "soft." When I reboot, the setting says "soft," but it is actually at the "loud" setting. I know this because when I switch the setting to "loud," the volume stays the same. Choosing any other setting makes the volume decrease.

However, if you turn it off, it will stay off.

Yup, I was able to do it here. You have to quit all the way out of the game, not just the menu. There's a disconnect between what you have set in the options and the actual volume. The setting itself is retained in the menu, it just doesn't have the proper effect. The same thing happened when I had the one lockup.

Annoying bug, but not one that's going to keep me from having a blast. Let's just hope there are no unpleasant surprises waiting for us 30 hours in.

Marcus

03-25-2007, 06:02 AM

Is there a way to turn off the helper arrow? That thing gives me some serious OCD.

forgeforsaken

03-25-2007, 06:10 AM

I see the sound bug as well. Even though it's set to very quiet, the music is clearly set at a much louder setting. I have to reset it to a loud setting then drop it back to very quiet. Maybe I'll just try turning it off. The sound effects also in general seem way too quiet even at the loudest settings.

GregB

03-25-2007, 07:40 AM

I just ran a little test. If you set the music to "off," it stays off even if you shut down your DS and restart. Set it to "Very Quiet" and after you shut the whole thing down and restart the game the volume goes back to normal even though it still says "Very Quiet" in the settings screen.

It only resets if you shut off your DS. Quitting to just the start screen won't reset the sound.

Any half-assed test plan should have caught this. (And I should know. Years ago, I used to run a bunch of half-assed test plans for a living)

Still like the game though...

Erik

03-25-2007, 08:06 AM

Is there a way to turn off the helper arrow? That thing gives me some serious OCD.

Unless I just developed a blind spot to it while playing the PC demo, I'm pretty sure the PSP version doesn't even have a helper arrow. Another good thing about the PSP version. Unless I'm wrong, in which case that part's still a tie.

Jab

03-25-2007, 09:37 AM

I'm noticing slowdown on the DS version if I get 5 in a row, or if a red skull takes out alot of gems at once. Not horrible but it's enough to get my attention. I seem to be getting killed when fighting the vampire bat in the crypt north of the starting town. Does anyone have any suggestions for buying equipment? I have the longsword equipped, along with the rat kings amulet and broken shield.

Justin Fletcher

03-25-2007, 10:00 AM

Is there a way to turn off the helper arrow? That thing gives me some serious OCD. I don't think you can, at least not in the DS version. But...

...my workaround is to select an icon on the board as soon as it's my turn (usually the one in the lower left corner). That seems to disable the arrow. Of course, you have to be careful not to accidentally touch any of the icons around the one you selected or it will count it as a botched turn.

Xemu

03-25-2007, 11:17 AM

Hm, now the PSP version is crashing on me -- I have a reproduceable crash scrolling through my spells. I guess it's back to the DS version.

flyinj

03-25-2007, 11:26 AM

What a shoddy piece of software.

GregB

03-25-2007, 12:06 PM

I seem to be getting killed when fighting the vampire bat in the crypt north of the starting town.

That bat was a fucker. I'm playing as a Druid so YMMV. My problem was that both the bat and my druid need major yellows to cast. At first I was trying too hard to go for skulls. The bat would just mop up the yellow and nail me with mana drain and the vampire attack. So I never had enough to cast spell regularly.

So instead of relying on skulls and the shit damage they do for my Druid, I tried scooping up the gems needed to cast Lightning. This allowed my to do damage with whatever skulls I got, plus the extra mana I collected let me keep casting lighting a few time in a row. Combine that with the occasional Forest Fire and Entangle and I managed to finally bring that bitch down. Basically, I tried to stop the bat from collecting Yellows and Reds as much as possible.

For items, I think I had leather armor, the Druid Bow, and the Rat King Amulet.

LordGek

03-25-2007, 01:02 PM

Is it just me or is spell research about a billion times harder in the real game than the demo? I captured an ogre and was trying to win his spell and lost the puzzle like ten times in a row, no matter how many different strategies I took.

You must be speaking of "Thump!"?

I did finally get it BUT, be warned, it appears that (and maybe its based on me being a Warrior or my current Fire affinity) for YOU the spell will cost 22 red mana as opposed to the Ogre's 15 points. So it appears here, and maybe in other cases, the reserched versions of skills will be a bit watered down from the original.

Gendal

03-25-2007, 02:57 PM

Hm, now the PSP version is crashing on me -- I have a reproduceable crash scrolling through my spells. I guess it's back to the DS version.

I have had both versions crash on me now, but both where on the overland map. Since it saves after every important action it was just annoying. Hope to hell I don't run into anything reproduceable.

Jason Lutes

03-25-2007, 03:55 PM

I've got my Druid up to level 16 now, and the game has really opened up in some cool ways.

Re: the idea that there's no strategy, I understand the feeling because I experienced it as well, but as you accumulate enough spells to manage your "loadout" (six spells max available in battle) and start to face more diverse enemies, there is DEFINITELY a lot of important decision-making going on. I would have quit after hour 2 if the game didn't reward me for playing smart.

Re: DS sound issue, when I boot up I just set the sound levels to "off," then reset them to where I want them. Yes, it's a bit of a drag, yes it's a glaring bug, but it's completely manageable.

Re: cheating, no way in hell does this game cheat. Put in the hours, and you'll see that you get as lucky or unlucky as the enemies, sometimes landing multiple crazy cascading "Heroic Effort" combos (once I triggered three in succession from one move). I also see no evidence that skulls attract skulls -- as far as I can tell, every time a new hole opens up it has an equal chance of being filled by colored mana, gold, or experience, and maybe a slightly lesser chance of catching a skull. When you play many battles that last a long time with this many variables, you're bound to encounter situations that feel weighted or wildly implausible. But that's the nature of probabilities, and I assure you that, the more you play the game, you'll see it even out over time.

I'm not trying to be contrarian, because I think the concerns and gripes beiong voiced here are valid, but I'm also having more fun with this game than anything else I've played on the DS. I don't even mind the hint arrow or the lack of significant death penalty any more. The design is solid and the gameplay is utterly addictive to the strategy gamer in me.

Quaro

03-25-2007, 04:16 PM

So, there is no PC version? They made a PC demo but aren't selling the game itself?

Jason Lutes

03-25-2007, 04:28 PM

So, there is no PC version? They made a PC demo but aren't selling the game itself?
The demo was to get people interested in the handheld versions. I don't think there's an official date for a PC version, but there was a rumor going around about a June/July release.

Jason Lutes

03-25-2007, 04:31 PM

Here (http://www.4colorrebellion.com/archives/2007/02/23/4cr-interview-infinite-interactive-part-2/) are some details about Fawkner's other, sci-fi themed hybrid puzzle game.

Misguided

03-25-2007, 04:43 PM

Here (http://www.4colorrebellion.com/archives/2007/02/23/4cr-interview-infinite-interactive-part-2/) are some details about Fawkner's other, sci-fi themed hybrid puzzle game.

I'd love to get involved with playtesting that...of course the downside would be not being able to discuss it here :)

I had to work all day and will be playing some WoW this evening, but can't wait to squeeze in a few battles before bed. Both my kids have been playing all afternoon.

Marcus

03-25-2007, 04:50 PM

Damn I want both of those games.

slantz

03-25-2007, 06:34 PM

I've been playing this a *lot*. I'm up to level 25 as a Knight, and I'd recommend the class to anyone who's having trouble choosing. Stun and Thrust are two staples I couldn't imagine being without, and there are some crazy-cool spells are higher levels as well.

Like Jason, the hint arrow and death penalty things don't bother me any more. I've finally learned to use the hint arrow as it was intended -- When I first started I was taking forever to make moves and the hint arrow was showing up every time. Now it only shows up if I'm really missing something, or in those rare cases when I really need to hunt for a 4/5-match, and those are precisely what the arrow addresses.

As for the lack of death penalty, this game is hard enough (if you don't grind) and long enough that a death penalty would do more harm than good. Seriously, even if you never lose a fight, it's starting to seem like this a very, very long game, not including playthroughs. I've been at it for probably 15-20 hours, and I think I've explored maybe 20% of the land mass. And while new areas are opening up, new quests keep popping up in areas I've already explored. Not to mention that you can siege every city and find a rune on every wilderness node, and some of those battles are *tough*.

So yeah, a dying penalty is pointless, because they certainly don't need to stretch out the content. The time investment in a lost battle is penalty enough.