Backwards compatibility and consoles

[Brad Wardell]

One of the advantages/disadvantages of PCs has always been that PC games had to deal with a myriad of hardware configurations.

By contrast, consoles only had to deal with a single platform.

But this has begun to change in recent years. The Playstation 3, for instance, is backwards compatible with the Playstation 2 which in turn is backwards compatible with the Playstation 1.

The Xbox 360 is somewhat backwards compatible with the original Xbox.

And the Nintendo Wii is compatible with Gamecube games.

What will be interesting is if this pattern continues into the forseeable future that we may increasingly see developers target the largest market on consoles -- in total.

That is, for instance, one can imagine perhaps one more generation into the future that developers will target one generation behind knowing that they get those users and the cutting edge users. Previously, this would have been suicide in the market, but as the diminishing returns in graphics start to make their impact, such may not be the case.

What do you guys think? Looking down the road at where consoles are going, do you see the continued tendancy to develop only for the latest/greatest console or do you see it starting to become increasingly like the PC where developers may provide features that benefit that new Geforce 8800 but at the same time make sure it works on the (sigh) Geforce 2MX as well?

[Coca Cola Zero]

I think things will remain as they are now because consoles have 5ish year lifespans. Other than a few indie/shareware developers, I don't think too many people writing PC games are worrying about if their new games will run on GeForce 1 and lower hardware. If the console lifecycle decreased to be similar to that of new videocard releases, I think you'd see something like you described, but I can't imagine that happening for a lot of different reasons.

[rjcc]

But we won't. It didn't happen with the PSOne, it won't happen with the PS2.

The buyers who buy the most games move onto the next console first, followed by the low tie ratio masses shortly afterward. It's still going to be expensive developing say, a ps2 game a year from now, why limit yourself to old hardware while your competitors are all showing off the shiny new thing?

[Michael Fitch]

Greetings:
It depends entirely on who you're selling to. For the hardcore gamers market, premiere first-run games will continue to launch on the leading edge version of whatever platform. You won't see these on the older platforms because they rely on the technology, and it's not cost-effective or brand-effective to try and launch a "B" version to the market.

For more mass-market titles (licensed properties, kid-friendly titles, tie-ins, etc.), you can bet that people will be supporting the "last-gen" platform. You'd be foolish to ignore the 100+ million PS2's out there, for example. I don't think you'll see much in the way of GameCube or Xbox 1 support, though, because the shelf space for those titles is going to dry up real fast as the Wii and 360 install base numbers swell this year.

The interesting bit will be the in-between titles. Frankly, I think EA would be well-served to put out a PS2 Madden '08 as well as a PS3, 360, and Wii version. The same goes for similar yearly, dedicated fan releases.

There was a lot of talk about a year and a half ago about how publishers bailed out of the playstation market too quickly to put everything on the PS2; only time will tell if that was more than just lip service, but like I said, I'd imagine some savvy folks will be targeting those legacy PS2 owners for at least the next year or two. I don't think this dynamic will change radically with the next wave, though. The push for "newer, better, faster" isn't going to change, just the buzzwords.

Best,
Michael.

[bago]

Back compat is more of a marketing bulletpoint than a selling feature.

[zx81-Amd64]

Back compat is more of a marketing bulletpoint than a selling feature.
maybe - but i can(and do) just about play all the games i want on my PC(from the last decade or so), while it might not be the case on console. The fact that Morrowind doesn't(last time i checked) work on 360 was one reason i decided against a 360.

Newest doesn't always mean 'bestest'. In fact i see a trend in the opposite direction for my gaming tastes. So backwards(or even forwards in the case of old PC games on new hardware) compatability is very important to me.

[DeepT]

I am not sure why everyone thinks backward compatability is so important. I am not a console gamer, so maybe I am missing something. It would seem logical to me, if you have a bunch of PS2 games and you buy a PS3, you still have a PS2 to play your PS2 games. Why does a PS3 need to also play PS2 games?

[Charles]

But we won't. It didn't happen with the PSOne, it won't happen with the PS2.

Actually, you can't make that assumption, because the PS2 was the first system to heavily market BC, and most developers immediately wrote off the PSX because of the huge jump in technology the PS2 gave. If you ask whether or not it was right to ditch the PSX so fast, most developers will outright answer that it was a bad idea.

People have learned from that mistake now, and that's why even a year after the release of the 360, you still see xbox games being made, and I bet that this time next year, there'll still be a lot of new PS2 releases.

[RickH]

People have learned from that mistake now, and that's why even a year after the release of the 360, you still see xbox games being made, and I bet that this time next year, there'll still be a lot of new PS2 releases.

The Xbox is dead. This is the list of coming soon games in GameFly's Xbox section:

Fuel
Drive to Survive
Ultimate Pro Pinball
Lawnmower Racing Mania 2007

Of these 4 games, only Fuel has a definite release date, and it's a budget title. I'd be flabbergasted if anyone was thinking of greenlighting an Xbox SKU now. MS wanted that platform dead, and it's dead.

[Linoleum]

Microsoft stopped giving out XMIDs for Xbox 1 titles to all but very high profile titles almost a year ago. I doubt budget titles in extended development limbo will make it to market.

[Charles]

The Xbox is dead. This is the list of coming soon games in GameFly's Xbox section:

Fuel
Drive to Survive
Ultimate Pro Pinball
Lawnmower Racing Mania 2007

Of these 4 games, only Fuel has a definite release date, and it's a budget title. I'd be flabbergasted if anyone was thinking of greenlighting an Xbox SKU now. MS wanted that platform dead, and it's dead.

Dead to new titles? Maybe. But the porting scene is still alive and well and I wouldn't be surprised if that continues for another year.

[rjcc]

Actually, you can't make that assumption, because the PS2 was the first system to heavily market BC, and most developers immediately wrote off the PSX because of the huge jump in technology the PS2 gave. If you ask whether or not it was right to ditch the PSX so fast, most developers will outright answer that it was a bad idea.

People have learned from that mistake now, and that's why even a year after the release of the 360, you still see xbox games being made, and I bet that this time next year, there'll still be a lot of new PS2 releases.

really?

You think that if developers had made more playstion 1 instead of playstation 2 games the dreamcast would have died as quickly and the ps2 would have gained momentum as quickly as it did?

I was under the impression ps2 made a lot of people money, is that incorrect?

[Charles]

really?

You think that if developers had made more playstion 1 instead of playstation 2 games the dreamcast would have died as quickly and the ps2 would have gained momentum as quickly as it did?

I was under the impression ps2 made a lot of people money, is that incorrect?

The point wasn't about pushing the PS2. That would've happened anyway. The point was that people left behind a hundred million person user base, and if they'd simply kept a few titles rolling out for a year, it wouldn't have hurt the PS2, and it would've brought in a ton of money that was unrealized.

The truth is that in that first year, no, people didn't make a lot of money off the PS2.

[Islanti]

I am not sure why everyone thinks backward compatability is so important. I am not a console gamer, so maybe I am missing something. It would seem logical to me, if you have a bunch of PS2 games and you buy a PS3, you still have a PS2 to play your PS2 games. Why does a PS3 need to also play PS2 games?
When my Xbox died, I really didn't want to drop another $80 for a used one. New is no longer an option. So having BC on the 360 is a nice feature for those times when I really want to go play an older title. This problem gets more serious the further into the 360 / PS3 lifecycle we go, since there are fewer and fewer of the last-gen systems working.

[Pogue Mahone]

Agree with Islanti - I have a bunch of PS2 games that I do enjoy returning to, and having functional BC on the PS3 means one less maching to have lying around and keep functional. Unfortunately until they figure out how to make Guitar Hero work on the ps3 my old ps2 will stay right where it is ...

[unbongwah]

It would seem logical to me, if you have a bunch of PS2 games and you buy a PS3, you still have a PS2 to play your PS2 games. Why does a PS3 need to also play PS2 games?
What happens when your PS2 dies? What happens after a console is no longer being manufactured? What if you want to get rid of your old console(s) to make more room in your entertainment center? What if you missed out on the last generation of games and want a chance to play them now, but don't want to buy an "obsolete" console along with your shiny new one?

[RickH]

Dead to new titles? Maybe. But the porting scene is still alive and well and I wouldn't be surprised if that continues for another year.

EA sports is releasing 3 games in the next 2 months: NCAA March Madness 07, MVP 07 NCAA Baseball, and Arena Football: Road to Glory. None have an Xbox release. If EA won't touch it, who will?

[RickH]

What happens when your PS2 dies? What happens after a console is no longer being manufactured? What if you want to get rid of your old console(s) to make more room in your entertainment center? What if you missed out on the last generation of games and want a chance to play them now, but don't want to buy an "obsolete" console along with your shiny new one?

Not to mention that BC can improve on the prior-gen experience. Metriod Prime is now easily playable in progressive-scan on the Wii. When it works, the 360's BC is great for the upscaling, the native wireless controller support, and better placement of the Black and White buttons.

[Kevin Grey]

Not to mention that BC can improve on the prior-gen experience. Metriod Prime is now easily playable in progressive-scan on the Wii. When it works, the 360's BC is great for the upscaling, the native wireless controller support, and better placement of the Black and White buttons.

I wonder if it wouldn't be a good idea to see some repackaged Cube releases with "Works on Wii" marked on the packaging or something to that effect. IIRC at least one GBA title was released in Japan in DS packaging and did really well. If Nintendo meets their sales goals with Wii odds are that a lot of Wii customers might have skipped out on the Cube and might be interested in some of the game they missed. With 3 "current gen" consoles out now, three handhelds, and the PS2 still going strong, I imagine that most store's Cube and Xbox sections are pretty much going to go away.

[EvilIdler]

I'm VERY happy with my DS and its ability to play GBA games - a few FF titles
and Breath of Fire plus many of the DS-native titles made my decision to play it.

On the PS2, I got it mainly for its native games. It's nice to be able to play a
few old PS1 games, though. On the list of incompatible/quirky games, there's
nothing I'd miss, so it can play quite a lot of games.

I'll get a 360 soon, and there are very few old Xbox titles I'd want, but the
few interesting ones help make the 360 that much more valuable.

A Wii is in my future, with backwards compattibility being as much a factor
as the native releases.

Compare that to the Windows platform, where games a few years old might not
play at all, even if he OS version now is about the same as then (bar a few SPs).

Some platforms can play games from several generations back real well
through emulation, though. DOSbox, hacked consoles running MAME etc.


I wonder if it wouldn't be a good idea to see some repackaged Cube releases with "Works on Wii" marked on the packaging or something to that effect.


That would be excellent! Not just for Wii, but perhaps Xbox games of some
popularity could be packaged so 360s would pick up patches from the discs.
Rendering at higher resolutions where possible/practical is another dream feature.

[Robert Sharp]

I am not sure why everyone thinks backward compatability is so important. I am not a console gamer, so maybe I am missing something. It would seem logical to me, if you have a bunch of PS2 games and you buy a PS3, you still have a PS2 to play your PS2 games. Why does a PS3 need to also play PS2 games?

All the same reasons why most people don't save their old PCs when they buy a new one. Yeah, I COULD keep an old 486 around to play DOS games, but I don't want that piece of junk laying around. I want to be able to play DOS games on my AMD64...and I can.

[Dave Long]

EA sports is releasing 3 games in the next 2 months: NCAA March Madness 07, MVP 07 NCAA Baseball, and Arena Football: Road to Glory. None have an Xbox release. If EA won't touch it, who will?

Yeah, Charles is out of touch. Xbox pretty much died in December of 2005. It was a very lean year in 2006.

[Charles]

Yeah, Charles is out of touch. Xbox pretty much died in December of 2005. It was a very lean year in 2006.

Granted I don't follow everything, but there seemed to be an xbox port for just about every high profile game that was released on next gen systems. Obviously it's not going to be at the same rate as when there was no next gen competition, as it's only natural that developers phase out the old systems, but come on, it's been over a year and there are still games being released, which is way more support than the PSX got post-PS2 release.

[zabuni]

Granted I don't follow everything, but there seemed to be an xbox port for just about every high profile game that was released on next gen systems. Obviously it's not going to be at the same rate as when there was no next gen competition, as it's only natural that developers phase out the old systems, but come on, it's been over a year and there are still games being released, which is way more support than the PSX got post-PS2 release.

Bull. EA released Madden 05 for the ps1. And the ps1 got a glut of console RPGs, like DQ7 as the platform faded away.

The ps2 is following the same pattern, with games like rogue galaxy, ars tonelico, and probably all of the remaining square titles not released here.

In fact, looking at mobygames, while by no means exhaustive, shows over twice the number of ps1 games released in 2001 as xbox games released in 2006.

[Charles]

Okay. So people are dumping the xbox. But will they dump the PS2 the same way? I doubt it.

[Midnight Son]

I still play PS1 games like FF Tactics, Xenogears and Persona 2 on my PS2. It's important to me.

[Linoleum]

No, PS2 will stick around due to its marketshare dominance and Sony pushing the 'new' slimline model at a <$150 price point. Microsoft didn't want to keep manufacturing the Xbox 1, and expanding 360 shelf space has to come at the expense of Xbox 1 space.

However, you'll increasingly see titles limited to big franchises (with PS3/360/PS2/Wii) versions, or $19.99 titles, although Sony is a lot more strict on these than Microsoft was, and there is a large enough back catalog of Greatest Hits that it can be tricky to get shelf space.

Development is rapidly shifting, however. I had to deal with one expected PS2 SKU cancellation last year of a midlevel franchise title for a major publisher due to soft 'current-gen' sales and forecasted sales.

[ronjer]

The Xbox is dead. This is the list of coming soon games in GameFly's Xbox section:

Fuel
Drive to Survive
Ultimate Pro Pinball
Lawnmower Racing Mania 2007


Oh! Ultimate Pro Pinball?! Cool, that has got to be better than amateur pinball. Or regular pro pinball.

[Ben]

Charles- As Linoleum notes, one reason is that Microsoft didn't make a second Xbox version at a lower price. Another is that the XBox didn't win it's generation. The Gamecube had a pretty crappy 2006, too. The winners of a given generation tend to have games made well into the next generation. They made Madden 1998 for the SNES.

So to answer your question, no they won't dump the PS2, just like they didn't dump the PS1, or the SNES, or the NES(which was still getting a decent number of releases even into 1993).

Basically, Charles, whoever it was you talked to is full of shit.