Battlelore (Richard Borg boardgame)

[Dave Perkins]

I love Memoir '44 (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/10630), but I'm pretty sure that Battlelore (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/25417) is going to take its place as my favorite Richard Borg game--in fact, since Memoir '44 is my favorite two-player game, Battlelore is going to take its place on that throne.

It's more like Command and Colors: Ancients (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/14105) than Memoir '44, but unlike Ancients (which none of my friends liked much) the battles are much more dynamic. There's a lot less destroying of entire units in a single turn, so a lot more back and forth in each little battle that takes place during a scenario.

I've only played two scenarios that involve lore, and our first lore scenario was a wipe-out that made me think that lore was broken, but our second is very fun and involves both magic casting and tactical decisions. Very satisfying.

Battlelore is already in the top ten at www.boardgamegeek.com and I bet it'll climb the list to near the top before too long.

[RepoMan]

We preordered it and the guy at the game store never called us to say it was in. But it IS in (I called today) and it'll be under the tree on Christmas :-D More later.

[AndrewM]

I'm helping my friend sticker his recently arrived copy of the C&C:Ancients expansion. There are a ton of blocks. Good times...

Does it have the problem where most of the scenarios are unbalanced? Are there a lot of scenarios? C&C: Ancients didn't have that many in its core pack.

[Dave Long]

When did it get released? This week?

I'm putting this on my birthday list.

[Mastema]

I preordered from my local game store and got my copy about two weeks ago. Looks like a ton of fun, but I won't get a chance to play it until I get some days off next week.

[Don Quixote]

It got released a week or two ago- I got my copy in the mail last monday, and have managed to play twice since then- just the other night with a bunch of Seattle-area Qto3'ers. Both times I played scenario 5, the first scenario that uses 'Lore', the magic abilities in the game. I really like it- there's definately a need for strategy- keeping your lines together and all your units supported is a good thing (and one that I need to pay more attention to)- The Lore provides some neat randomness, though.

I'm looking forward to playing again, and using the full range of Lore abilities and the big creatures/mercenaries/etc., but what I'm really looking forward to is the rules for custom armies that they've hinted at- sort of like a board game version of a tabletop minis game like Warhammer, where each player customizes an army and War council and fights it out. Should be pretty neat, and a fraction of the cost of Warhammer (provided you've already bought into the base game, of course).

[Peter Frazier]

This is my return-to-boardgaming game after 16 years. I've played a few solitaire games (by just making the best possible card play for each side) and the introductory Agincourt scenario, which I lost convincingly (Always support your troops and don't rely on archers to do much...).
It's an elegant beer and pretzels game with toy soldiers to push around on a nice board. I'm glad I don't have to worry about CRTs or anything. It's much better to play the game and not get stuck in rules-lawyering.
There aren't many scenarios and it's funny after being spoilt by computer games that there are no random-setup or points buying scenarios. There's also no strategy layer or campaign either, which could have given greater depth to the game. Heh, it's interesting how little boardgames can get by with and still go well.

[Don Quixote]

They've hinted at all of that in expansion packs, or available for free on their website. They've said that they won't be going for the 'points-based' approach- they're trying something different. The only thing that worries me is that they're looking at 2-3 small (read- 'blister pack') expansions per month starting in March, along with 2 more big ones later in the year. Yow! My wallet hurts already. :(

Also, as you noted the game is simple enough that various people have kludged together points/random terrain scenarios on various message boards. Some peeps are going for a strict points-based approach, but another group is doing a system that amounts to:

-each side starts with eleven units, all blue, and six Lore levels
-you may substitue one red for each two green you take
-Dwarves are worth 1.5, Gobliniods .75
-no more than 1/3 Cavalry
-no more than 1/3 Mercs

Along with a way to randomly produce terrain, I think the system is pretty elegant. One thing boardgames definately have over computer games- it's way easier to mod in the features you want.

[Andrew Mayer]

I could have grabbed this, but the $70 price tag scared me off. Probably stupid since I would have gotten the hill giant too...

Ah well. I'm definitely interested.

[Lloyd Heilbrunn]

Is Borg a typo?? Because I remember a Richard Berg as a boardgame guy.....

[Dave Perkins]

Does it have the problem where most of the scenarios are unbalanced? Are there a lot of scenarios? C&C: Ancients didn't have that many in its core pack.

There are only 10 scenarios in the booklet, unfortunately. But my friends and I usually play scenarios back and forth a dozen or so times before moving on to the next one.

None of the scenarios that I have played so far have been unbalanced.

[Dave Perkins]

Is Borg a typo?? Because I remember a Richard Berg as a boardgame guy.....

Not a typo!

[Alan Dunkin]

No it's not a typo, there is a Richard Borg as well. He does more simplified-types with easy mechanics, while Berg is more of the grognard-type designer.

--- Alan

[Pogue Mahone]

Yep, I'm a big fan of Richard Berg myself - for anyone who is interested (because I definitely am) Berg is working on an updated release of Blackbeard (http://www.gmtgames.com/blackbeard/main.html). I love that game, even works well for solo play.

[Lloyd Heilbrunn]

Yeah,Blackbeard was great,and one of the few I liked solo.

[Jay Adan]

Well, if you happen to be in Western Massachusetts you can grab a copy at my gamestore - Greenfield Games (http://www.greenfieldgames.com) in Greenfield, MA.

I got a chance to take a look at a game in progress and it looks pretty fantastic. I love wargames that are approachable enough to play with regular folk.

[Dave Perkins]

I got a chance to take a look at a game in progress and it looks pretty fantastic. I love wargames that are approachable enough to play with regular folk.

Battlelore is definitely one of those games.

I played a couple scenarios last night using the War Council and, apart from one spell that radically altered the flow of the game, there was far more tactics than spell damage, which I liked. So I'm still a fan of the mix of tactics and lore in this game.

The spell that rocked me: we were playing Scenario 9, which has about a dozen hills on the board. My opponent chose a level 3 Cleric and drew a spell card that allowed him to roll 4 dice against every one of my units that was on or adjacent to a hill--and both banners and lore rolls count as hits. Seven or eight of my units were affected, and you can imagine how the rest of that game went. I lost 6-2 or so.

The previous turn, I'd chosen two spell cards and discarded one: I discarded a Dispel card. I could have stopped his powerful spell if I had kept that card.

Moral: always keep the Dispel card.

[SlyFrog]

Looks to be a bit flavor of the week. Battlecry, Memoir '44, and its ilk have all been disappointing to me. It does not help that I hate scenario based games as a general matter (except for Advanced Squad Leader, which I'm really starting to dig).

[Saxman_72]

Yep, I'm a big fan of Richard Berg myself - for anyone who is interested (because I definitely am) Berg is working on an updated release of Blackbeard (http://www.gmtgames.com/blackbeard/main.html). I love that game, even works well for solo play.
I am so friggin' stoked about picking this one up. Hopefully it will deliver a quality solo play game.

[Dave Perkins]

How'd this Richard Berg fellow hijack this thread? Who's next, Richarde Borg? Rickard Barg? :)

[dogbert]

I picked this up too - it seems to be a perfect lunchtime game for two players, and it's been a big hit so far, and this is just using the basic game, not the Lore or War Council.

[Mark L]

This game looks like a lot of fun, and lighter than War of the Ring, my boardgaming favorite. One question I have to those who have it- what's the setup time like? Heck, make that two questions, what influence does randomness have on the game?

[Tom Chick]

I think Battlelore definitely has legs. It addresses a lot of the randomness in Memoir '44 by giving the combat more gravity. Manuevering is important, battle lines are important, morale matters, melee takes precedence over ranged attacks. You're not just pointing at units and rolling dice. This more staid combat system is wonderfully complemented by the magic stuff. I love how combat and magic are worked together in Battlelore.

Unfortunately, you're not really playing Battlelore at its fullest until you're doing the last scenario, which finally folds in the creature(s) and the customizeable War Council. I wish there were more scenarios, and I wish I knew what I was supposed to do with this Hill Giant and Earth Elemental. Do I just sub them in for the Giant Spider? Can you just choose one by spending a War Council token?

But now that the game's out, I'm hoping more scenarios are on the way.

-Tom

[Dave Perkins]

I think Battlelore definitely has legs. It addresses a lot of the randomness in Memoir '44 by giving the combat more gravity. Manuevering is important, battle lines are important, morale matters, melee takes precedence over ranged attacks. You're not just pointing at units and rolling dice. This more staid combat system is wonderfully complemented by the magic stuff. I love how combat and magic are worked together in Battlelore.

I agree with all of this. It's great fun to have two armies facing each other, two hexes away, neither player willing quite yet to charge.. and then, wham, someone plays Foot Assault and casts Mass Might, the other player casts Slow in response, and the battle is joined.

I love the rules for "Bold" units, that can battle back. Much better implementation than in Ancients, if you ask me.

[Dave Perkins]

One question I have to those who have it- what's the setup time like? Heck, make that two questions, what influence does randomness have on the game?

Setup time is 10-15 minutes. Buy a piece of plexiglass that covers the board once the terrain is on it, if you have mild OCD like me.

Your randomness question seems too broad to answer.

[Mark L]

Let me elaborate a little:

One thing I strongly disliked about Memoir 44 was that I felt that the influence an individual die roll would have on the course of the game was too significant. A lucky artillery barrage or whatever could just end the game, and there might be little that anyone could do. When it happened TO me this was frustrating, and when it happened FOR me my victory felt totally hollow.

Now, one might agree or disagree with this assessment, but regardless of your position on it, would you say that randomness is greater than or less than in Memoir?

btw, thanks for the setup time assessment, and thanks to Tom for his mini review.

[Dave Perkins]

Now, one might agree or disagree with this assessment, but regardless of your position on it, would you say that randomness is greater than or less than in Memoir?

What little experience I have with Battlelore suggests that the luck factor is about equal to that in Memoir.

My friends and I have a house rule or two to deal with lucky rolls, and last night I thought of another: it might be cool if you could force your opponent to re-roll at the cost of X lore, where X is the number of times that someone has been asked to re-roll during that scenario. For example, if I asked my opponent to re-roll and this was the first time anyone had called for that, it would cost 1 lore. The next time someone asked for a re-roll, it would cost 2 lore.

I'd prevent the chaining-together of this action, too. If you ask for a re-roll, you must abide by the results of the re-roll; no spending more lore. But maybe this rule isn't necessary.

In Memoir, we also don't necessarily end the game when someone reaches enough victory points to "win". The opponent is allowed to decide if he will play a card hoping that he can score more points himself. But then the original winner can decide the same, and so on. The game doesn't end until one player throws in the towel. This went a long way to preventing cheesy victories.. like risking weak units just to get that final victory point.

What do you think of these ideas?

[Tom Chick]

I tend to turn my nose up at most house rules, but I'll freely grant that I might be placing too much trust in the designers. :)

That said, there's still plenty of luck in Battlelore. But for a number of reasons, it's not nearly as haphazard as Memoir, where a game could easily be decided by what cards you get. Or, more importantly, what cards you don't get.

Battlelore tempers this a number of ways. For instance, the number of tactics cards you get (the military game) is inversely proportional to the number of spell cards you get (the magic game). Yet, they're both related, because you need to battle to get mana for your spells. It's a great system that, along with the dice rolls, evens out the randomness across several "fronts".

In other words, it would be really hard for me to go back and play Memoir after Battlelore.

Also, I think Dave it taking too long to set up games! :) Assuming you've arranged your pieces well (I immediately threw out that horrible plastic rack and divided the pieces into their own ziploc baggies), you can set up a game pretty quickly.

The games also move pretty quickly once you've learned the rules. At first, it can be a bit bewildering if one of the players has to keep referencing the cards to remember how many space a unit moves, how many dice it gets, etc. But with a few exceptions (Cavalry and long swords are synonymous? Wait, wait, are my guys blue or green?), it's an intuitive game that a gamer can wrap his head around pretty quickly.

-Tom

[Mark L]

I definitely like the second idea, it's one I hadn't thought of before. I'd have to give it a go in practice first, of course, but it sounds promising. How did it end up working for you guys?

As for the first idea, in principle forcing rerolls at a cost sounds like a great way to mitigate luck in this sort of game. That said, I don't know the BL system and therefore don't know whether I can judge how much a point of lore is worth, exactly.

I really liked the system a lot, I just found that in Memoir every individual roll counted too much and was too susceptible to randomness.

[Dave Perkins]

Also, I think Dave it taking too long to set up games! :) Assuming you've arranged your pieces well (I immediately threw out that horrible plastic rack and divided the pieces into their own ziploc baggies), you can set up a game pretty quickly.

Yes, that could very well be. :) Still, it's hard to imagine getting set up in less than 10 minutes.

[Dave Perkins]

I definitely like the second idea, it's one I hadn't thought of before. I'd have to give it a go in practice first, of course, but it sounds promising. How did it end up working for you guys?

I think it's great, especially when combined with this idea: just play the same scenario back and forth until one person reaches a set goal, like 30 or 40 total points. Setup time almost vanishes, and it's great fun to see how a battle played 10 times in a row can come out 10 different ways. It also really shows you who is the better player!

[Rob O'Boston]

The adventures editor is now live:

http://www.battlelore.com/index.php/?t=battlelore_editor&rid=&S=cdee25cf12b7b3e3d961a35fc6c3df6d


I bought the game a couple of days ago but haven't had a chance to play yet. After reading the rules and looking at the cards, I get the sense that these battles take place in the same universe as Harry Potter, just 700 years earlier.

[Taranis]

I just ordered Battlelore today, $60 (shipping included) and I get the Hill Giant with it. I'm not sure if the Hill Giant is worth the extra $3 but screw it, I'm spoiling myself... it's how I roll ;)

[Andrew Mayer]

I just ordered Battlelore today, $60 (shipping included) and I get the Hill Giant with it. I'm not sure if the Hill Giant is worth the extra $3 but screw it, I'm spoiling myself... it's how I roll ;)

Where from?

[Taranis]

Where from?
I ordered it from thewarstore.com, its $57.00 for the game and hill giant + $3.95 shipping.

http://www.thewarstore.com/battlelorepreorder.html

[Andrew Mayer]

...and I bought it.

Damn you and thank you.

[Taranis]

No problem!

I cant wait to get my order, I'm trying to line up a game next weekend with a Friend (or foe as it were) too try this puppy out. I foresee a long session of gaming goodness or at least i hope it will be :)

[CustodianV131]

I've had it for a few weeks now. Man is it great! The box was really heavy and came crammed full to the rim… literally. http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/165264 I’ve trashed the trays quickly and now even the earth elemental and hill giant fit nicely in the box.

I liked Memoir 44 but I love Battlelore! The system got better and richer imo. On top of that I like the theme far better! Great system to play historical or fantasy based battles with.

They even mention Master of Magic as inspiration for the game... I mean how can that go wrong? :D

Really great game, can't wait for the (mini)expansions to start rolling out!

[Dave Perkins]

I liked Memoir 44 but I love Battlelore! The system got better and richer imo. On top of that I like the theme far better! Great system to play historical or fantasy based battles with.

I agree with these sentiments entirely.

[SlyFrog]

If I really disliked Battle Cry, thought it was overhyped, undersophisticated flavor of the week material because it had a bunch of plastic in it that made people think fondly of their childhood, is there any chance I'll like Battlelore?

I keep telling myself that it is rationally just not my type of game (for the above reasons plus I hate collectability in games), but these threads in various forums are just wearing me down.

[Mark L]

I think this sounds like a lot of fun, but I would only have one regular opponent. Is there anyone in St Louis who would like to play, if I were to pick this one up?

[ElGuapo]

Question. Did anyone play Battle Masters (simplified wargame relseased several years ago by Games Workshop . . . huge map, lots of units, simple dice rolling)?

In that game, you could just play the game itself, pick your side and set up, or play scenarios. You could do this because both complete armies were balanced. It also had an interesting mechanic where instead of units having movement points, you drew from a deck of cards and moved whichever unit was on the card (cavalry just got more cards). But I digress.

Is this a game you can place armies and play a quick battle, or must you play scenarios?

[Mark Asher]

I think this sounds like a lot of fun, but I would only have one regular opponent. Is there anyone in St Louis who would like to play, if I were to pick this one up?

I'm in St. Louis and I wouldn't mind playing on an irregular basis. There's also that meetup boardgame group that plays games. I'm sure you can find players there.

[Dave Perkins]

If I really disliked Battle Cry, thought it was overhyped, undersophisticated flavor of the week material because it had a bunch of plastic in it that made people think fondly of their childhood, is there any chance I'll like Battlelore?

I wish I could tell you, but I never played Battle Cry. I don't think fondly of my childhood when playing Battlelore, though. And I wouldn't call it a "collectibles" game.

[SlyFrog]

I wish I could tell you, but I never played Battle Cry. I don't think fondly of my childhood when playing Battlelore, though. And I wouldn't call it a "collectibles" game.

Ok, and echoing ElGuapo, if you hate scenario based games, which are just begging for you to buy a $40 expansion pack when you get tired of the scenarios that came with the game.

EDIT: Nevermind, I'm obviously answering my own questions, and reassuring myself that I'm making the right choice in not getting it.

[Dave Perkins]

Ok, and echoing ElGuapo, if you hate scenario based games, which are just begging for you to buy a $40 expansion pack when you get tired of the scenarios that came with the game.

I would imagine that there will be lots of free scenarios to download from the official website, just like there are for Memoir '44.

[jpinard]

My wife and I got this for Christmas and to my utter amazement... she LOVES it. Not that fake kind of "I'll put up with it for you" type of sentiment. I mean she actually wants to play... and keep playing. It is fantastic. I never thought the day would come when she'd like this kind of thing... but BattleLore is just the right balance of non-modern war stuff and uses some imagination. Now granted, I had to surreptitiously play bad on purpose so she could win, but it was well worth it. I crippled myself by playing the worst cards possible and putting my forces in harm's way. I don't think she picked up on that, and it made her feel pretty good to win. We didn't play with many of the rules yet since she's new to strategy (no retreats, no morale, no magic) and this made it all that much easier to get into and understand.

How well do those units hold up to painting? My wife likes to do artsy stuff, and she might like to paint them.

[spacerat]

Good news for those of you (i.e. me) whose wives are not so enthusiastic about the game as jpinard's!

A new VASSAL module for BattleLore:
http://www.vassalengine.org/community/index.php?option=com_vassal_modules&task=display&module_id=383&page=Files

SpooyChop and I tried out the Command & Colors: Ancients module, by the same author, and it worked pretty well, so I have high hopes for the BattleLore module (haven't had a chance to try it yet).

Hopefully this will help make my BattleLore box look less pathetic as it sits on my shelf, all alone and unplayed.

[ElGuapo]

Good news for those of you (i.e. me) whose wives are not so enthusiastic about the game as jpinard's!

A new VASSAL module for BattleLore:
http://www.vassalengine.org/community/index.php?option=com_vassal_modules&task=display&module_id=383&page=Files

. . .

Hopefully this will help make my BattleLore box look less pathetic as it sits on my shelf, all alone and unplayed.

Wow, awesome. Got mine in the mail yesterday and only had time to open it. And look at the pieces. Wow, they are way smaller than I thought they'd be. I guess I was expecting plastic army men size or a little smaller. But these things are tiny. Any idea what scale they are?

I'm going to play a game with myself this weekend to get the hang of things, then maybe I'll be up for a PBEM game.

[Ben Sones]

Wow, awesome. Got mine in the mail yesterday and only had time to open it. And look at the pieces. Wow, they are way smaller than I thought they'd be.

They sort of have to be. Otherwise, the game board would be ten feet across.

[ElGuapo]

Given. The last game of this type I played, keep in mind, is Battlemasters, where the board is 5'x5'.

[SpoofyChop]

VASSAL Module news yadda

MAN! That was interminable!

I've been patiently waiting for the Battlelore VASSAL module for about 13 hours now. I was starting to worry that this thing was another Duke Nukem Forever.

;)

[spacerat]

Wow, awesome. Got mine in the mail yesterday and only had time to open it. And look at the pieces. Wow, they are way smaller than I thought they'd be. I guess I was expecting plastic army men size or a little smaller. But these things are tiny. Any idea what scale they are?

I'm going to play a game with myself this weekend to get the hang of things, then maybe I'll be up for a PBEM game.

Feel free to PM me if you're up for a game sometime....

[Andrew Mayer]

My copy is, according to UPS, somewhere in Illinois...

Looking forward to getting it soon though.

[RepoMan]

My wife also really digs it. I said this in the "Gaming with a non-gaming spouse/SO" thread:

"My wife and I just played our first Battlelore game on Sunday night :-D

She always wanted to play D&D as a kid but had no access to a gaming population. So when I read her the Battlelore "primer" pitched squarely at thirtysomethings with lives who want to have a quick hit of fantasy gameplay action, it hooked her but good.

When I set up the board, she got a bit intimidated because she's hardly ever played a tactical strategy game. But I explained the basic rule of tactical games, which is Make Lots Of Your Guys Whomp On Just A Couple Of My Guys Until My Guys Are Totally Dead. And then she got rolling and she just about won the second game (with no handicap on my end). So I think we're good to go now, we're going to have one Battlelore game per week and work our way all through the intro scenarios :-D :-D :-D"

I'm planning to stop playing nice AT ALL -- in the second game, the only nice thing I did was to not win when I got her fourth banner, and then she got my fourth and fifth banners (fair and square) and we gave her the win. I'm expecting her to be cutthroat in another few sessions. We'll be playing weekly for the foreseeable future (I hope!!!), working our way through the rulebook, and then getting into the online scenarios.

jpinard, I wouldn't think those figures would paint well at all -- they don't seem like the kind of plastic that would hold paint well. But I'm not a figurepainter so I don't really have a clue.

[Andrew Mayer]

jpinard, I wouldn't think those figures would paint well at all -- they don't seem like the kind of plastic that would hold paint well. But I'm not a figurepainter so I don't really have a clue.

Well, I went and took a quick look. As I suspected you really need to get the proper primer on the figures. But it definitely looks like it's a pain in the ass to paint soft plastic.

[ElGuapo]

I'd love to play a PBEM game, especialyl since Xemu hasn't sent me my setup turn in Combat Mission yet. Just le tme review the rules and play a quickie game tonight so I can see the mechanics in action.

[Taranis]

.
How well do those units hold up to painting? My wife likes to do artsy stuff, and she might like to paint them.
Here are some painted Battlelore figures, and some ideas on how to paint them:
http://www.battleloremaster.com/guild_gallery.html

[jpinard]

Here are some painted Battlelore figures, and some ideas on how to paint them:
http://www.battleloremaster.com/guild_gallery.html

Holy cow those are awesome.

[Peter Frazier]

I'm slowly working my way through the job of painting my Battle Lore figures. I wouldn't advise anyone to do it unless you really enjoy painting.
I would then advise them to use black spray paint as an undercoat- I was overly ambitious and because I sprayed mine white, I have to go through the base coat - ink wash - dry brush routine, which is pretty tricky with 20mm figures.
Of course, when you finally line them up complete, it's a great sense of accomplishment.

[jpinard]

I'm slowly working my way through the job of painting my Battle Lore figures. I wouldn't advise anyone to do it unless you really enjoy painting.
I would then advise them to use black spray paint as an undercoat- I was overly ambitious and because I sprayed mine white, I have to go through the base coat - ink wash - dry brush routine, which is pretty tricky with 20mm figures.
Of course, when you finally line them up complete, it's a great sense of accomplishment.

Will you post some pics?

[Peter Frazier]

Sure, after I finish drybrushing the archer's faces and hands, stick the shield decals on my heavies and finish up the horse armour.
I'm dreading the medium infantry and cavalry- there's a frickin' horde of them. And don't even talk to me about painting tartan on the dwarves.

[Peter Frazier]

Well, here's the work in progress. I was all set to put print some fancy decals out for the shields and apply them, but after adding the decal to water the ink immediately dissolved. Can I just send out a quick 'fuck you' to the Bare-Metal Foil Co for making the absurdly expensive non-water proof decal paper? My next tip to beginners is: don't paint heraldry on shields when you have the shits. I'm going to redo most of the shields.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/th.7350a7701b.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?7350a7701b.jpg)

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/th.bcc53ccf33.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?bcc53ccf33.jpg)

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/th.2d2b96ee60.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?2d2b96ee60.jpg)

[jpinard]

Peter, those are amazing. The artistic talent of the people here never ceases to amaze me. Since we have the game and konw just how tiny those units are - I can't believe how you got that kind of silver/black detail on the armor. You must have t use some kind of magnification? Like maybe an electron microscope? :)

[Peter Frazier]

Nah, it's not that hard- I just paint the base coat of silver, let it dry, apply a wash made up of black ink + PVA glue + water (the glue makes the ink stick only in the cracks not on a flat surface- something to do with surface tension) and then a quick dry brush of light silver. It looks good when it works well but pretty grubby when it doesn't.
I'm only a beginner in the painting stakes. When I go to places like http://www.coolminiornot.com/, I realise how much more I have to learn... (Especially painting eyes. Damn I hate eyes.)

[Taranis]

Nice job on the figures Peter! I have long admired people that can paint miniatures, I have wanted to try my hand at painting them but never have. Maybe my Battlelore figures is a good place to start.

Now back to the game,
I stumbled in this morning at 2:00am after my first sessions of Battlelore (and maybe a few to many whiskey cokes) and I must say this game lives up to its hype. We were both new to the Command and Color system but it didn't take long to get into the swing of things. We never made it into any of the lore adventures but I'm chumping at the bit to try one, lore looks to add a substantial amount strategy to an already fun the game. The only complaint I have is with the packaging, I have the common problem of bend cavalry and archers so I guess I need to boil them to straighten but I really wish they would have foreseen this problem before the game shipped!

[jpinard]

A good thread on keeping your scenery hexes in place:

http://www.daysofwonder.com/index.php?t=msg&th=9769&start=0&rid=306830&S=b077986b7f56b6439679c0933c87ba0f

[Andrew Mayer]

My copy arrived! Now I just have to find some people to play with...

[Nick Walter]

All of this talk has made me excited about this game. How playable is this game for larger groups? Sometimes my Dungeons and Dragons group will play a board game for a change of pace but it can be challenging to find a boardgame playable by 6 people in a 4 hour window. We often get stuck playing History of the World and abandoning it in the third or fourth age.

[Andrew Mayer]

It's two player at the core, although they mention team play rules.

[Calistas]

Nick, there are tons of good boardgames playable in 4 hours. Check one of the older board game threads for a variety of recommendations.

[ElGuapo]

Well, I played my first game (against myself).

I love it. I mean, I haven't even touch the Lore stuff yet, but from what I've read, it's even better. I love the way it models calvary charges. I love manuvering. I love the feel and even the smell of the board and the pieces. Does anyone else think they have a sweet odor to them? It's the smell of sweet sweet BattleLore armies.

I can envision buying other figures and adding to the collection, or buying random same scale figures and inventing new creatures. Dragons and hydras, oh my!

My only real complaints:

1) I think the rules for retreating are a bit much. I can definately see retreating, but a unit that is able to move 1 hex per turn should not be able to retreat 2 or even 3 hexes per turn. I guess you could make an argument for the unit being routed, but aren't these experience heavy infantry? I think a house rule could be that a unit does not have to retreat more spaces than it can normally move.

2) I really wish there were well thought out balance "point value" numbers on the unit cards so you could play random battles. Then you could do fixed battle or even handicap one side. They do this a bit with the War Council stuff but it would be great to have well thought out, balanced point values. I haven't played enough games to think of a point value system yet.

3) Not really a complaint, but I always forget the battle back bold rules. I may make some custom tokens that go under the lead figure in a group to show if they are bold (or double or even triple bold!).

[ElGuapo]

I thought of a creature. Does this seem balanced? I feel so geeky, like the feeling you got in middle school when you were inventing monsters in D&D. It's great stuff.

http://www.leisuregames.com/acatalog/mighty_armies_orc_hydra.jpg

Creature: Hydra
Blue Banner (3d)
Movement: 2 and attack.
Bonus Attack: Yes

(##) 2 lore: The hydra gets to attack twice this turn. This ability must be used after the attack die roll. This ability can not be used during battle back.

(####) 4 lore: The hydra regrows a head. The hydra ignores a critical hit that would normally kill it. This ability can be used any time the hydra is attacked, even during battle back. This ability can only be used one time per game.

I've not seen the stats for the promotional figures so I couldn't say whether this is truly balanced.

[RepoMan]

Good point about retreating more than seems reasonable, that hadn't occurred to me. But if heavy units had to retreat less, it would be a huge game advantage for them.

How often do you get more than 1 flag rolled though? Probably not often enough to matter, and if you do, you can chalk it up to an epic rout.

I have no idea how they balance the creatures. Would be nice if Borg would be forthcoming with balance guidelines, or even provide an official point ranking. Your hydra seems probably overpowered at 2 lore for double attack power, I'd make it 3 lore -- just being a blue banner creature is no small deal in itself. But I'm just going on a random balance hunch here.

[Taranis]

A good thread on keeping your scenery hexes in place:

http://www.daysofwonder.com/index.php?t=msg&th=9769&start=0&rid=306830&S=b077986b7f56b6439679c0933c87ba0f
Yeah Plexiglass works great for boardgames. We used it on AA: Europe after we enlarged the map to about 3'x5' and then bought a 4'x6' piece of plexiglass man did thank work nice, we plan on doing the same kind of thing with Battlelore.

[Taranis]

Has anyone found a suitable container for transporting figures?

I was thinking of buying a tackle box or something of that size. I would like everything to fit into one container (including the board) and something thats easy to transport.

[Andrew Mayer]

Has anyone found a suitable container for transporting figures?

I was thinking of buying a tackle box or something of that size. I would like everything to fit into one container (including the board) and something thats easy to transport.

You may find that these labels (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/fileinfo.php?fileid=21206)are helpful..

[scharmers]

Yeah Plexiglass works great for boardgames.

Plus you can write on it in china marker.

[RepoMan]

Tom's original suggestion of using ziploc baggies inside the original box is working fine for us. Not sure why anything more would be needed.

[Taranis]

You may find that these labels (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/fileinfo.php?fileid=21206)are helpful..
Thanks!

Tom's original suggestion of using ziploc baggies inside the original box is working fine for us. Not sure why anything more would be needed.
Many of my cavalry and archers where bent because of the inadequate packaging by Days of Wonder, the only way to fix them properly is to boil them in water too straighten then put them in cold water to take their proper shape. After I do all that I really don't want to take a chance on bending them again, plus if I do end up painting my figures I need a better container then zip locks.

Oh, and I'm also a little bit Anal/compulsive about my miniatures, but not to worry I am seeking help!!!! :-)

[Cougar]

So I've been really intrigued by this game, but I have one concern. I play Warhammer Fantasy Battles, and have quite a few friends that do as well. I've got 4k points of Lizards/Vampires painted... I'm concerned that if my friends and I were in the mood to play miniatures combat, we'd just play Warhammer - or we'd always play Battlelore and either my money in Warhammer or Battlelore would be wasted.

Are there any of you that have played both and could speak to my caution?

~C~

[Ben Sones]

Battlelore plays faster. YMMV, but that's a pretty big selling point for me. Average game time is listed as 60 minutes (presumably that's once you are familiar with the rules). I can't remember ever playing a game of Warhammer Fantasy that clocked in at less than 3-4 hours, though it's been a long time since I've played.

[AndrewM]

I haven't played Warhammer, but these Command and Colors games are very light and fast. Maybe you'd want to play Battlelore if you just have an hour to spare and don't want to think that much, and Warhammer when you have more time?

[RepoMan]

Um, your concern is what, exactly? That after investing $4,000 in Warhammer, you might find out that Battlelore is more fun?

Well, look at it this way. The most you could possibly invest in Battlelore at this point is like $75.

So if you wind up liking Battlelore more, then you're having more overall fun for basically no increase in money!

My guess is that the two games are slanted differently -- Battlelore's probably better for small quick games, and Warhammer for all-day knock-down drag-out megabattles. So you'll probably still wind up playing both. But avoiding the minimal investment needed to try out Battlelore, because of your sunk cost in Warhammer, makes no sense. It's not like your Warhammer figures will dry up and blow away, or depreciate in any way whatsoever. Worst case, you ebay all your figures for Big Money$!

If you can't enjoy playing a new game that's more fun, because you're feeling bad about all the money you spent on an old game that's no longer as fun, then you're enslaved by the past, man!!!

Edit: "4k points" isn't the same as "$4,000", is it? Well, then, my argument's stronger yet :-)

[spacerat]

Well I would say there is some overlap, but the systems are pretty different. BattleLore plays much faster, as Ben points out, due to a much simpler game system, lower unit density, and hex-grid based movement. You do have to give up complete tactical control of your units though. In other words your movement/attack options are limited by the command cards you have, rather than having complete freedom to move all of your units each turn. I can imaging that being a turnoff for the hardcore Warhammer player (its been years since I played Warhammer, so it doesn't bother me).

I think Days of Wonder really hit a sweet spot with the streamlined game system, because it hits the fantasy wargame sweet spot for me, without all the expense and time of collecting and painting an army, and the marathon play time...

If you never find yourself wishing Warhammer was cheaper/faster to play/easier to set up, then Battlelore might not offer you much....

[spacerat]

Um, your concern is what, exactly? That after investing $4,000 in Warhammer, you might find out that Battlelore is more fun?


By the way RepoMan, I think he said 4000 points, not dollars. I think a 4K point army would cost substantially less than $4000....

[Andrew Mayer]

I read through the basic rules, and it's a damn smart design. I've ordered my Elemental off the website and I'm looking loreward to playing it.

[Peter Frazier]

BattleLore is a beer'n'pretzels style of wargame with nice components and elegant gameplay. It's also completely scenario based, so there is no points-style army building. The only similarity it has with Warhammer is that it has a few fantasy units. It's not going to convert many people away.

[Cougar]

It is more of a mind-share thing with my friends/wife. We currently play various CCG's, Warhammer Fantasy Battles/40k, and board games every Tuesday night.

I still enjoy Warhammer and want to continue playing it (especially after investing the money and time painting - and yes, that is 4000 points, not dollars), but I'm intrigued by the differences in Battlelore. I just don't want to ruin any future chances at playing Warhammer by having Battlelore in the wings waiting.

We can play a 2,000 point game in about 2-2.5 hours. We are currently also running a Warbands map based campaign that we fight the battles over lunch, so time isn't the biggest selling point that I've heard :)

~C~

[SlyFrog]

By the way RepoMan, I think he said 4000 points, not dollars. I think a 4K point army would cost substantially less than $4000....

With Games Workshop, I'm not so sure.

[spacerat]

More official scenarios now available at the Battlelore website....

[Andrew Mayer]

More official scenarios now available at the Battlelore website....

They are here. (http://www.battlelore.com/index.php?t=adventures&sub=app&rid=291378&S=5e417bd5b872babd53a35c10f7fdba54)

[Taranis]

Days of Wonder has also put up a link for anyone having problems with their dice wearing too fast (dice that cant hit targets are exempt from replacement!), they will send you a new set for free and ship them at their cost.

Apparently there was a manufacturing mistake made on some dice, you can find out more here:

http://blog.battlelore.com/en/

[Andrew Mayer]

Chumpface and I managed to get a game going on Vassal last night. Definitely fun once you get the hang of it, although we managed to screw up the Agincourt adventure by using too many rules...

If folks are interested in trying it out sometime let me know. There really aren't many folks hanging around on the server.

[RepoMan]

Personally I think the Agincourt adventure, if played as your first scenario, has too few rules. They tell you to play with JUST movement and combat, no worrying about retreating or battle-back or morale. Sounds great!

But: until you're playing with the retreat rules, how the hell can the archer side win? Seems like those heavy cavalry charge right in and step on them, hard. Maybe if you get Darken the Skies on your first turn, or something. Or are my wife and I just not playing the archers right?

Edit: And I might be more into in-person Battlelore rather than on vassal :-) Mayer, you're in Berkeley? I'm out in Concord... pretty easy!

[Andrew Mayer]

P
Edit: And I might be more into in-person Battlelore rather than on vassal :-) Mayer, you're in Berkeley? I'm out in Concord... pretty easy!

Hmm... I do need to visit Fry's again soon.

[ElGuapo]

I got a friend of mine hooked into this over the weekend. We played Agincourt 3 ties and the second battle once. Man, this is a fun game.

The last one came down to one dice roll. And it ended on a battleback. Ouch!

[jpinard]

Days of Wonder shipped out replacement dice already. They rock!

[Taranis]

There's a Battlelore tournament being organized using Vassal, the tournament starts of Monday, January 22. Matches will be comprised of adventures 1-10 and use official rules only. After you're paired up you have a week to complete 2 matches and the winner moves on.

I want to play in this but I haven't progressed beyond adventure 5 so far, and it would be embarrassing not to know the rules in a match. So I might sit this one out and enter in the next one, They are looking for players to fill up their brackets.

**Anyone interested in competing can register on this site:
http://www.freewebs.com/battlelorevassal/index.htm

[SwampIrish]

Days of Wonder shipped out replacement dice already. They rock!

I haven't gotten mine yet.

[Andrew Mayer]

Okay. I've managed to play three games of this so far. One in person and two over Vassal.

I'm totally digging it, especially once I played a scenario with lore cards (#5) are added in.

It's definitely a balancing act with the amount of randomness that's in the game, but it works for me. You're constantly reacting to the circumstances you're put in, trying to build toward some of the stable or safer battlefield formations that are going to allow you to weather an all out attack by the opposing player.

The fact that a single remaining unit is as deadly as a full unit allows for some balance, especially since destroying that remaining unit is a step toward victory for your opponent. The lack of defense makes the player feel like they have to make the most of every turn.

I'm just beginning to "get" this game, but I'm looking forward to playing more of it. I'm also intrigued by how it starts as a war-game but moves into a more "magic" style game as you get to understand it better and add in the rules. I'm sure it'll become even more interesting once they start releasing the Hero figures.

[Taranis]

FYI-Update:
Epic rules coming in march, the first game supplement announced "Call to Arms" and Figure sets or Specialist Packs explained.

http://www.battleloremaster.com/2007/02/official_word_spring_07_expans.html

[Hetzer]

Personally I think the Agincourt adventure, if played as your first scenario, has too few rules. They tell you to play with JUST movement and combat, no worrying about retreating or battle-back or morale. Sounds great!

But: until you're playing with the retreat rules, how the hell can the archer side win? Seems like those heavy cavalry charge right in and step on them, hard. Maybe if you get Darken the Skies on your first turn, or something. Or are my wife and I just not playing the archers right?

Edit: And I might be more into in-person Battlelore rather than on vassal :-) Mayer, you're in Berkeley? I'm out in Concord... pretty easy!

Hmmm i played the agincourt scenario as well, but where in hell do you have read that you dont use retreat rules????

[William Abner]

I believe it only says to not worry about morale (being Bold basically) and follow-up actions. You should be retreating, though..

Still, there's no reason to play Agincourt without adding morale and follow ups; it's not like these are two abstract game concepts.

[Andrew Mayer]

Still, there's no reason to play Agincourt without adding morale and follow ups; it's not like these are two abstract game concepts.

Couple of reasons:
1) The mud in Agincourt helped the archers to win. Pulling off retreat, morale, and follow ups simulates that.
2) It's totally an unbalanced scenario of you play it with those rules.

[Hetzer]

without retreatrules your archers will do nothing but die!

[Andrew Mayer]

without retreatrules your archers will do nothing but die!

Ah, yes. Retreat, but:


If this is your first game, focus your attention on the general structure of a game turn, as described on page 10, and the various ways to move and battle with your troops.
Do not worry too much about Morale effects and Follow-on actions just yet!

[William Abner]

Does retreat mean morale in game terms, though?

[RepoMan]

That was my interpretation. Looks like I might've been wrong. Oh well, we've moved on now anyway.

[William Abner]

More info on the Call to Arms add on.
http://blog.battlelore.com/2007/02/23/call-to-arms/en/

Good stuff.

[jpinard]

More info on the Call to Arms add on.
http://blog.battlelore.com/2007/02/23/call-to-arms/en/

Good stuff.

Sweet. But... I didn't see anything about new fantasy units. Did I miss that? Have you heard anything about new units/races in particular?

[Taranis]

Sweet. But... I didn't see anything about new fantasy units. Did I miss that? Have you heard anything about new units/races in particular?
This is what they stated so far about new units:


Finally , in May, the first figure sets or Specialist Packs will start shipping. Rather than blister packs, these sets will introduce a couple of new units around a common theme: probably beginning with a Goblin Skirmisher set, a Dwarven Battalion (complete with Bagpipers) and an Hundred Years War Battalion. Each will retail for about US$20. These will also be released as single-unit blister packs exclusively off the DoW website.

[William Abner]

And you can already hear the cash register ringing up those specialist packs.

[Taranis]

And you can already hear the cash register ringing up those specialist packs.
Yep thats why I bought the BIG tackle box to store the game in, I should be able to fit a few hundred dollars in there. 8-/

[Andrew Mayer]

Unfortunately they have me and the wallet is open on this one.

Better than a collectible I figure.

[William Abner]

Epic BattleLore rules are available. Woo hoo.

http://www.battlelore.com/epic

[Don Quixote]

Came out yesterday, and I was >< that close to trying them out. Instead, I learned how to play Battleground:Fantasy Warfare (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/18985), which scratched the same itch. I've had the game for a year or so (when it first came out), but haven't gotten it to the table yet. Really fun, and I apparently beat the reining champion of the game (they guy won the Origins and GenCon tourneys last year). If you're looking for a minis game without the expense, I highly recomend it.

[William Abner]

First off, the Epic stuff shows a lot of promise based on just reading through the new rules.

I've heard Battleground is fun but when I hear the term "Starter Deck" I get a bit worried.

[SlyFrog]

First off, the Epic rules show a lot of promise based on just reading through the new rules.

I've heard Battleground is fun but when I hear the term "Starter Deck" I get a bit worried.

Actually, "Starter Deck," is a stupid term for them to use, because it really is non-collectable. The "Starter Deck" is just the base army and cards, and then there is one more expansion deck (also $10) that is, well, expansion units.

The only real "collectible" part about Battleground is the fact they they keep churning out new sides. But that obviously doesn't make you buy the new sides (you can keep playing humans versus undead, for example) unless you are a moron like me.

[Taranis]

Now that "Call to Arms" is out anyone have any impressions on it?
I'm sitting by twiddling my thumbs waiting for my copy for Fathers Day.

[Merakon]

I never bought any Battlelore expansions and this thread never got any feedback on them. I wonder if a lot of players who bought Battlelore turned out like me? Which is to say, I find the game too bulky: too hard to set up and put back into the box, compared to its brothers Memoir 44 and C&C Ancients. (I was just organizing and cleaning my game room and put this game onto my "sell or give away" pile, and remembered this thread.)

[Andrew Mayer]

I've played the game a bunch over the past year, and have grown to really like it.

Beyond setup, which I've solved using plastic baggies to separate the armies, and paint pens to make sure it's easy to tell unit classes apart, the other issue is that there's definitely a two or three game "training period" to bring a new player up to speed. After that they can use all the fun features of the game like the consul and lore. Without those elements it's a fairly mediocre experience, IMO, but with everything running it's a damn fun game.

That said, it's hard to buy the expansions if you haven't even used everything that came in the box...

The issue for me has been finding the time and the people to play, but I did manage to harness some folks at work into playing, so I'm sure I'll be upgrading some elements eventually.

[Don Quixote]

I've enjoyed this game a bit over the last year. I've bought two of the expansions- the Epic expansion (the game actually plays much better with this), and the 'Call to Arms' expansion, so we don't actually have to set up a specific scenario every time. I haven't bought any of the troop expansions, though- I'm just not interested int hem. More Goblins and Dwarves are just not interesting at all. Where are my Elves? Undead? Various large Creatures? Heroes? Guest spots for the War Council? So much unfulfilled potential. Until any/all of this stuff comes out, it's pretty much a back-burner game- something to pull out for fun when it's only me and a friend, and then it's not even a sure thing. I was really hoping for this to be a sort of board replacement for Warhammer Fantasy Battle or something. Instead their release schedule just keeps churning out yet more overpriced Dwarf and Goblin figure expansions.

Oh, well, I'm getting my fix in by playing Battleground: Fantasy Warfare (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/18985). The rules are great, it's cheap, lots of factions. A local friend of mine is designing the campaign rules, and we start playtesting them next week!

[Lorini]

Yeah DQ, I don't understand that either. There's plenty of room for imagination which they seem to be way short on. And we know what's gonna happen---the eighth dwarves expansion won't sell, so they'll give up on the game instead of giving us some variety. I did like the 100 years War expansion, I felt they did a good job with the limited magic implementation. They are coming out with Scottish dwarves (who cares about Scottish dwarves??!) but I won't be getting that.

[Jason Lutes]

Yeah DQ, I don't understand that either. There's plenty of room for imagination which they seem to be way short on. And we know what's gonna happen---the eighth dwarves expansion won't sell, so they'll give up on the game instead of giving us some variety. I did like the 100 years War expansion, I felt they did a good job with the limited magic implementation. They are coming out with Scottish dwarves (who cares about Scottish dwarves??!) but I won't be getting that.
I really doubt they're going to "give up" on the game. Any way you slice it, BattleLore is a cash cow for Days of Wonder. The expansions are likely to continue flowing for years to come.

[Lorini]

I really doubt they're going to "give up" on the game. Any way you slice it, BattleLore is a cash cow for Days of Wonder. The expansions are likely to continue flowing for years to come.

Um, have you noticed how the expansions for Memoir '44 have nearly stopped? If it doesn't sell, they won't keep pumping out new expansions, they aren't that stupid. They'll just move on to the next game, like Richard's much discussed Napoleonic game using the same basic system.

[mkozlows]

Memoir 44 has a new expansion due out this month (http://www.thoughthammer.com/memoir-44-air-pack-expansion-p-4447.html) (though I guess it'll probably not make it), so they've hardly abandoned it. Yeah, they've focused around BattleLore and they'll undoubtedly focus around another new game down the line, but it's hardly like anything's been hung out to dry.

[Lorini]

Memoir 44 has a new expansion due out this month (http://www.thoughthammer.com/memoir-44-air-pack-expansion-p-4447.html) (though I guess it'll probably not make it), so they've hardly abandoned it. Yeah, they've focused around BattleLore and they'll undoubtedly focus around another new game down the line, but it's hardly like anything's been hung out to dry.

Whatever. They'll support it as much as sales dictate. I never said anything has been hung out to dry anyway. All I said was if they keep churning out (stupid imo) dwarf expansions, sales will go down and we won't see more expansions. What I and DQ were bemoaning was the fact that the expansions are taking a turn for the worst as far as variety goes. In my personal experience, most folks have Epic, Call to Arms, and maybe 100 years War. They aren't buying these dwarven/goblin expansions anyway.

We will see. Rumor has it his next game will be out this time next year, but I don't recall hearing who the publisher would be. I would expect GMT if it's way historical, but would prefer DoW for their excellent presentation. GMT is finally going to get around to making a real board for C&C:Ancients, which imo will make that game way more playable.

[Jason Lutes]

Um, have you noticed how the expansions for Memoir '44 have nearly stopped? If it doesn't sell, they won't keep pumping out new expansions, they aren't that stupid. They'll just move on to the next game, like Richard's much discussed Napoleonic game using the same basic system.
Lighten up, Francis.

[davida]

The dwarves were always Scottish, but now they're riding bulls!

I like the expansions, they add some interesting variety to the game and give you some options. Call to Arms is good for 2 players, but for Epic, it just makes set up take too long.

My regular play group has had a ton of fun with Battlelore, and I agree, the epic expansion really makes the game better, Reluctant Allies is tons of fun.

We've gotten pretty good at setup -- I use clear plastic cases which store each unit (4 or 3 figures) in their own compartments. Makes setup pretty easy.

Just because it's fun, here are a couple of links:

My painted battlelore stuff:

http://picasaweb.google.com/iamagiantnerd/Battlelore

A movie we made of a house rules 6-player reluctant allies game. Good times:

http://www.stage6.com/user/Spasticon/video/1737635/BattleLore-100607

* edited to finish a freakin sentence I didn't finish

[mkozlows]

Oh, well, I'm getting my fix in by playing Battleground: Fantasy Warfare (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/18985). The rules are great, it's cheap, lots of factions. A local friend of mine is designing the campaign rules, and we start playtesting them next week!

Between me... er, my son, that is... having just gotten Memoir 44 expansions, Battlelore expansions, the second Heroscape master set, and Halo ActionClix for Christmas, more miniature-esque light battle game stuff is pretty much exactly what I didn't need right now, but don't think that stopped me from buying a pile of it anyway. Looks interesting.

[Don Quixote]

Yeah- I don't mean to imply they're giving up on the game any time soon. Just that most of what's out there holds no interest for me or anyone I play with. Sooner or later, they'll produce the stiff I want, and they should hope I haven't forgotten about the game by then.

[Andrew Mayer]

I am surprised they've been so straight down the line with the current expansions.

Where are the Monsters and where are the Hero Units?

[Jason Lutes]

The dwarves were always Scottish, but now they're riding bulls!

I like the expansions, they add some interesting variety to the game and give you some options. Call to Arms is good for 2 players, but for Epic, it just makes set up take too long.

My regular play group has had a ton of fun with Battlelore, and I agree, the epic expansion really makes the game better, Reluctant Allies is tons of fun.

We've gotten pretty good at setup -- I use clear plastic.

Just because it's fun, here are a couple of links:

My painted battlelore stuff:

http://picasaweb.google.com/iamagiantnerd/Battlelore

A movie we made of a house rules 6-player reluctant allies game. Good times:

http://www.stage6.com/user/Spasticon/video/1737635/BattleLore-100607

Nice paint jobs! The movie is a cool idea, but I wish you'd added occasional narrative text so I could tell what was going on beyond board setup...

[moss_icon]

Um, have you noticed how the expansions for Memoir '44 have nearly stopped? If it doesn't sell, they won't keep pumping out new expansions, they aren't that stupid. They'll just move on to the next game, like Richard's much discussed Napoleonic game using the same basic system.

I can't see a Napoleonic game drawing as much interest as Battlelore, I assume DoW isn't going to release this.

[scharmers]

NATO, Nazis, and nukes. And sometimes Napoleon.

[Lorini]

A thread relevant to the current discussion:)

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/265226

[jpinard]

Davida - that is really cool. BTW, if you buy a large piece of plexiglass you can cover the whole board and not have to worry about terrain pieces getting bumped or moved. It also helps with space constraints since you can cover the rulesheet with the plastic and place cards and such on top of it... removing them just when you need to see a tip.

[Andrew Mayer]

Davida - that is really cool. BTW, if you buy a large piece of plexiglass you can cover the whole board and not have to worry about terrain pieces getting bumped or moved. It also helps with space constraints since you can cover the rulesheet with the plastic and place cards and such on top of it... removing them just when you need to see a tip.

Chessex makes a "crystal" plastic flexi-mat that works great as well.

I bought mine for board game development, but it works well for this as well...

[Lorini]

Letter from Days of Wonder to us fans:

http://blog.daysofwonder.com/2008/01/08/battlelore-of-heroes-and-some-missteps/en/

Hopefully they will be able to get back on track this year, but it looks as if it'll be 2009 before we see the results of the changes.

[RepoMan]

Enh, the nice thing about boardgames is they don't go obsolete / playerless as quickly as electronic games :-) I'm happy to wait. Hell, my daughter is only 3, I can't play Battlelore with her for another four or five years at least! Should be some GREAT expansions out by then!

[Don Quixote]

Yeah- saw this earlier today. I'd kind of suspected that this is part of what happened (the radical change in release method causing conceptual problems), not that it makes it any better. Like I said before- I've got plenty of games to tide me over until they get their shit together, and lest hope (for their sake) that by then I'm still interested. That said, those hero minis do look sweet.