Top Five Science Fiction Novels [Archive]

Sharpe

07-22-2002, 08:25 PM

OK, a thread to get some discussions going :). To keep things from getting wacky, I'll just confine the list to science fiction; no fantasy allowed.

1)The Moon is a Harsh Mistress - Robert A. Heinlein. This book is now 40 years old and is STILL the definitive political sci fi book, and the best treatment of AI ever written, in my opinion. This book was my introduction to law, politics, revolution and intrigue. Still a classic :).

2)Snow Crash - Neal Stephenson. After the cyberpunk of the 80s, this post-cyber-punk wild ride is great fun. Quite possibly the best opening chapter of any book ever, along with one of the best treatments of cyberspace ever, and of course the classic passage that begins with the line "It was the nuclear weapon that put Raven over the top." If you have not read this, highly highly recommended.

3)A Fire Upon the Deep - Vernor Vinge. Vinge has written a fairly small number of works but his quality level is top notch. This is his most fun book, with awesome space opera, cool aliens, and loads of adventure.

4)Starship Troopers - Robert A. Heinlein. There is no movie. REPEAT: THERE IS NO FREAKING WEIRD DUTCH BASTARD VERHOEVEN MOVIE. Thank you. Once you have purged the spec-freaking-tacularly bad movie from your conscienceness you can appreciate this, the first (and IMO) best of the military scifi books, which gave us classic lines like "Bugs! Bugs everywhere Mr. Rico!" and "His name is Zim". This book is also a heavy influence on both Aliens and (indirectly) StarCraft.

5)Aristoi - Walter Jon Williams. The best "post singularity" novel out there, with some cool space opera and cyberpunk themes. A surprisingly deep novel that is still quite enjoyable.

OK thats, my list. Fire away with yours,

Dan

Kross

07-22-2002, 08:58 PM

This list is all hard science fiction and thus not comprehensive, though perhaps it was not meant to be.

A non-hard science fiction book that stands out for me is The Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula LeGuin. In the hard science fiction category, I'd pick Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card and Asimov's Foundation trilogy.

chet

07-22-2002, 09:02 PM

Heinlein didn't stand up for me. Now years older, I find that his politics and sexism is heavy handed and awkward. His stuff just doesn't stand up for me. I loved it before, hate it now.

I do like Robert Anton Wilson's Schrodinger's Cat Trilogy after reading it again a month ago.

Also agree with the Asimov pick.

Chet

Sharpe

07-22-2002, 09:49 PM

The list I posted is my own personal top 5 so it is all hard sci fi, which I generally strongly prefer to soft sci fi or science fantasy.

On the issue of Heinlein, the criticism is merited for some of his books but not for others. Of the two I listed, Starship Troopers is pretty free of the weird sex that populated later Heinlein, and I dispute the characterization of people like Verhoeven of the ST politics as "fascist". As for Moon, yes it does have some weird sex, and its full of politics but its more 60s style Libertarian than the hardcore anti-communism and anti-statism that Heinlein got into later. Generally speaking, Heinlein written before 1960 or so stands the test of time pretty well, while the later stuff seems full of dated attitudes now. I don't know if its that Heinlein got weirder as he got older or if he just began expressing his inherent weirdness more in the 60s and later. The two books I listed can be read by a modern progressive thinking person with only minimal wincing, and the strong good points of each book greatly outweigh the mild level of weirdness. If you got turned off by Heinlein by Friday, Time Enough for Love, Stranger in a Strange Land or other late-stage Heinlein, then I do recommend trying the earlier stuff: Starship Troopers, Between Planets, Man Who Sold the Moon, short stories etc.

Dan

copeknight

07-22-2002, 10:06 PM

I think good writing is timeless, and Heinlein--for me--is synonymous with good writing. But, yes, I understand the notion of liking books at one point in one's life and not later (the reverse is also true). Part of what we get from a book comes from the background we bring to it; that can change over time.

I tend to like my sf as, er, speculative fiction, so as not to have to arbitrarily separate fantasy from science fiction, so these titles probably have too much fantasy in them for some people's taste.

1) Lord of Light by Roger Zelazny.
2) Stranger in a Strange Land by Heinlein.
3) Glory Lane by Alan Dean Foster.
4) Foundation by Asimov.
5) A Civil Campaign et al. by Lois McMaster Bujold

Carl

Jason McCullough

07-22-2002, 10:32 PM

I probably can't pick 5, but Protector, by Larry Niven, was pretty damn good. Unfortunately, he lost the ability to write or something; the last Ringworld book was horrid.

Mark Asher

07-23-2002, 12:51 AM

Some of Heinlein is not good writing. Some of it is so bad it's embarrassing.

The line between sci-fi and fantasy is slippery. I'd put Bradbury's Martian Chronicles in a top 5, though it's arguably as much fantasy as sci-fi.

I love Bester's The Stars My Destinations.

Ok, some Heinlein - a double novel. Waldo and Magic, Inc. The latter is fantasy.

Snow Crash. Yeah, a great book.

Neuromancer by Gibson.

I dunno -- it's hard for me to rate this stuff because I just haven't read that many sci-fi novels that are all that great.

mtkafka

07-23-2002, 12:58 AM

I think these are pretty good, in no order

Walter Miller - Canticle for Leibowitz
Brian Aldiss - Non-Stop
PK Dick - Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch
JG Ballard - The Crystal World
Anthony Burgess - Clockwork Orange

I liked Gibson, Disch, Silverberg, Clarke, and Bradbury too. Gibson and Stephenson are the last sci fi and most recent I've read... so I'm completely out of it.

Also I actually never read Heinlen. I should get some of his stuff.

also to add I think Michael Crichton is a good sci fi writer. Some of his earlier stuff is good on premise and story and a breeze to read.

etc

mtkafka

07-23-2002, 01:09 AM

BTW, hasn't ANYBODY here read PK Dick? I think hes the best sci fi writer. Not neccesarily because he wrote the best sci fi books but because he had his own voice and style in a genre that didn't really distinguish much between authors (generally speaking). He's fun and engaging to read in his good stuff. And he had a lot of good stuff! Imo.

etc

Brad Grenz

07-23-2002, 01:22 AM

One of these days I'll head up to Powell's and buy a bunch of used PK Dick stuff.

I finally broke down and ordered a copy of Snow Crash tonight. I read Cryptonomicon and thought it was great, but I never got much further than Gibson in my cyberpunk reading. I've read most of his books, just not his short stories.

I actually spread to some John Shirley and his Eclipse trilogy is fantastic. I'm going to make an effort to branch out some more to guys like Bruce Sterling and Rudy Rucker too.

I'm going to give Heinlein a go too.

DennyA

07-23-2002, 06:39 AM

The problem I had with PK Dick is that I tried to read a couple of his admittedly LSD-influenced novels in high school. Those turned me off... Too disjointed. I understand not all of his material is so, um, "imaginative," though. I need to give him another shot.

Heinlein I liked much more as a teenager than as an adult. Times have changed, and a lot of his mid- and late-career stuff comes across more as adolescent wish fulfillment than great fiction. (The first Heinlein book I ever read was "Friday." The cover alone sucked me in as a 15-year-old. The inside didn't disappoint either. But now much of it seems gratuitous.)

Heinlein's most enjoyable work by far was his series of juveniles -- Starship Troopers, Podkayne of Mars, Starman Jones, etc. For god's sake, don't start with "The Cat Who Walked through Walls."

I have to agree with Sharpe on "A Fire Upon the Deep." Vinge is great. What's particularly interesting is looking at his galactic "internet" and then noticing when the book was written. The sequel, "A Deepness in the Sky," is superb as well. I wish he was more prolific.

For sheer fun, my favorite has to be Bujold's Vorkosigan series. You don't want to start with the recent books -- those are geared very much towards readers already enamored of the characters. Mirror Dance is an excellent intro (the first one I read). Then go back and read the earlier books in the series, and work your way forward. They're great space opera with some interesting characters.

If you like science in your science fiction, you owe it to yourself to pick up some Allen Steele. He's had some weak books (Oceanspace, etc.), but he's done some great "near future" fiction. Orbital Decay, Lunar Descent, Clarke Count: Space, etc. Stuff that will make you wish America still had a sensible space program. The plots aren't overly original, but the settings are a joy to any kids who grew up reading about or watching Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo and imagining that humanity had a future in space.

Lee Johnson

07-23-2002, 06:52 AM

I'm not sure what I'd put in a "Top 5" SF list, but for sure, Heinlein's The Number of the Beast has to rank among one of the worst SF novels I've tried to read. :-P

Mark Asher

07-23-2002, 07:03 AM

I have to second Allen Steele. He's excellent. Denny, did you happen to read his short story The Death of Captain Future -- think that was the name. That was a great nod to the old pulps.

It's not a novel, but I have a fondness for Asimov's I, Robot collection of stories. He's not a great writer, but he can be a lot of fun. His most famous story is Nightfall, I suppose, which I just don't see as deserving as much acclaim as it got.

Anonymous

07-23-2002, 08:01 AM

The Heinlein I liked then aged badly. OTOH the Heinlein that was pretty bad then is OK now. Go figure.

On the other hand I enjoy Dune more and more each time I read it.
Nobody has Dune on their list?

I have very fond memories of several anthologies of shorts. Perhaps it's an attention span thing. I gave up recreational reading several years ago.

dfs

Bub, Andrew

07-23-2002, 08:13 AM

I'd put Dune on my list. I probably wouldn't add any of the sequels though.

Dune - Herbert
The first three Foundation books - Asimov
War of the Worlds - Wells
1984 - Orwell
And something by Kurt Vonnegut Jr.... maybe Cat's Cradle?

I'm not that big a sci-fi fan really. I almost threw in the Martian series from Edger Rice Burroughs just because they're fun as hell and have four-armed green men.

Lee Johnson

07-23-2002, 08:28 AM

There are so many good SF books that I'm reluctant to single anything out for special attention. However, since I haven't seen them mentioned here yet, I thought that Dan Simmons' Hyperion books were a great read. Hyperion The Fall of Hyperion Endymion The Rise of EndymionMy tastes run more to the Brin/Bear/Baxter/Benford camp in recent years. I'm presently wading through Tad Williams' Otherland saga and enjoying it so far.

Jim Hoffman

07-23-2002, 10:41 AM

Not necessarily in this order:

Snow Crash, Neil Stephenson
Hyperion series (1st 2, didn't like 2nd 2 as much), Dan Simmons
Neuromancer, William Gibson
Eon, Greg Bear
Fire Upon the Deep, Vernor Vinge

Anonymous

07-23-2002, 10:49 AM

Would you consider "Hardboiled Wonderland and the End of the World" (Murakami) sci-fi? I guess that and Dune would be in my top 5, but I'm not much into sci-fi.

I used to read a lot of PK Dick (no fag jokes yet, hmmm....) and liked him a lot, but agree that much of his stuff is a bit too disjointed. His short stories are much more manageable and generally have a couple interesting ideas or twists, but I guess that would be a different topic.

Mark Asher

07-23-2002, 10:52 AM

Now my brain's working better. Yeah, Dune belongs on a short list. Good call. Hyperion was great but each book got worse. He should have stopped with one.

I don't think the Foundation books hold up well. I really don't think Asimov's fiction holds up well. He's been surpassed by many later sci-fi writers.

I forgot Stanislaw Lem. I love his Star Diaries, but just as Orwell's 1984 is more social commentary than sci-fi, the Star Diaries is more of a satirical look at human nature than sci-fi.

Jason Levine

07-23-2002, 10:53 AM

Also in no particular order, some of my favorites:

Nueromancer William Gibson
Dune Frank Herbert
The Mote in God's Eye Larry Niven & Jerry Pournelle
Childhood's End Arthur C. Clarke
The Forever War Joe Haldeman

Jim F.

07-23-2002, 11:12 AM

Hard to come up with a Top 5, but here are some of my favs.

"Spider Trilogy" (Warriors of Spider, Way of Spider, and er, forgot the 3rd). Probably the most realistic depiction of epic space combat that I've read. Little heavy handed on the importance of religion.
Ender's Game and Speaker for the Dead (Xenocide wasn't all that great. HATED Ender's Shadow)
Hyperion and Return to Hyperion
Dune (of course)

I enjoyed Asimov's Foundation Trilogy for the most part, but it isn't among my favorites. The jumps between chapters made the book way too disjointed. The story on a whole was great, I especially enjoyed the trader's story, but the writing left a bit to be desired and the time jumps really ruined the flow.

Alan Au

07-23-2002, 11:14 AM

The first two Dune books are fine. Then the series kind of goes off the deep end. Same thing happened to the Foundation series, where the first three books are fine while the rest of the series is just annoying. The Ender's Game series also tetters precariously along the edge. The first book is great, the others less so. It's as if he's trying to tie up loose ends, but inadvertently creates more threads as he goes.

I've read Cryptonomicon, but I've been cautioned against Stephenson's other books. I also read a lot of Heinlein when I was younger. Not sure how well they would hold up today, simply because now I'm less concerned with subject and more concerned with writing style.

Oh, and does the Hitchhiker's Guide series count for this discussion?

- Alan

Sparky

07-23-2002, 11:15 AM

I prefer short stories to novels when it comes to SF -- Ray Bradbury, Zelazny, Harlan Ellison. But I have a whole shelf full of Keith Laumer...the Bolo series, even his cheesy James-Bond-in-space, Retief. Love those giant sentient tanks. However, I think this is very uncool to admit in public.

Oops, too late.

William Harms

07-23-2002, 12:05 PM

I'd put Mockingbird, by Walter Tevis, toward the top of my list. (Which also includes a lot of books already mentioned.)

Jim F.

07-23-2002, 12:05 PM

"I've read Cryptonomicon, but I've been cautioned against Stephenson's other books."

Snow Crash is a must read. Completely different than Cryptonomicon. Less techy and easier to lose yourself in the flow of the story, in my opinion.

Diamond Age is a trippy look at a future where nanotech is a part of every day life. I found it very entertaining, but the ending left me wondering what the hell just happened. It's like he got tired of writing the book and stuck on an ending.

Was warned against Zodiak, so I haven't tried that one out yet. Probably check it out from the library sometime.

Dean

07-23-2002, 12:42 PM

I'd throw in David Brin's Uplift saga. I ate those books whole a couple of years ago. The best was the dolphin one (I don't remember the name).

Dune, of course.

I loved Heinlein all through my teen years. I read everything the man ever wrote. I haven't been back to him to see if he's held up, but The Moon is a Harsh Mistress just might be worth another look.

I'd also like to mention Connie Willis' Doomsday Book or To Say Nothing of the Dog, both of which got me hooked on her writing. Very nice time travel books.

I love Stephenson, and thought Zodiac was well worth the time, especially as a Bostonian. Seeing Boston as a collection of waterways instead of roadways was a very cool thing, not to mention the enlightening fact that you can get to the Watertown IHOP by boat. I wouldn't put it on my top five, but I'm mentioning it for those of you on the fence.

James Galimo

07-23-2002, 12:47 PM

My favorite five books/series (in no particular order):

Dune, read it in high school, became progressively less interested as the series wore on. I never finished God Emperor. Haven't picked up the new ones his son did either.

Star Wars, the Zahn trilogy. (Heir to the Empire, Dark Force Rising, The Last Command) Light reading, to be sure. There have been dozens of Star Wars novels since these books came out, but none have captured the feel of the original movies the way these did. Much better story than Episode 1 and 2 (and not a mitochlorian to be found).

Star Trek: The Q continuum. Ok, I admit it. I'm a Star Wars geek AND a Star Trek dweeb. I wear the titles, well maybe not proudly, but with considerably less shame than I probably should. Anyway, this was a short series condensed into one book, although it may only be available that way through a book club. There are literally hundreds of Star Trek books out there, but I've only read a small handful of them. Most of them are pretty ho-hum, these ones I like since they give a good background on Q, arguably one of the greatest characters in the Star Trek universe.

The Hitchhiker Trilogy. I'm surprised no one else has this one on their list. I'm sure I can't be alone on this one. Maybe too many folks consider them to be in the humor category. Rest in Peace, Douglas. Hope the movie (should it ever actually get made) turns out well.

The Bachman Books. Written by Stephen King, under a pseudonym. The collection features The Long Walk, one of my favorite novellas, and The Running Man, which was much better than the movie (although the movie wasn't all that bad, in my opinion).

So there's my list. As you can see, I like my Sci-fi kinda light. A few runner ups:

Alien by Alan Dean Foster
Glory Road by Robert Heinlein
Job: A comedy of Errors by Robert Heinlein

I suppose I should pick up an Asimov novel. Any suggestions for my first one?

Edit: Looks like Alan Au mentioned Hitchiker Trilogy while I was writing. Yes, I consider it Science-Fiction (as do most bookstores).

Mark Asher

07-23-2002, 12:53 PM

"I prefer short stories to novels when it comes to SF"

I do too. I think SF works better that way.

Mark Asher

07-23-2002, 12:59 PM

"I suppose I should pick up an Asimov novel. Any suggestions for my first one?"

I think his robot stuff is his best SF. I, Robot is a collection of stories that tell the history of robotics. Caves of Steel is a nice SF detective novel set in that world of robots.

If you can find a collection of his short stories you might try that. He's a classic SF writer in that format -- he takes science and extrapolates forward and the stories invariably have a twist at the end with some kind of scientific explanation attached.

He was an incredibly prolific writer and wrote more non-fiction than fiction, I believe. It was probably his strength. He was very good at popularizing science.

DennyA

07-23-2002, 01:15 PM

I have to second Allen Steele. He's excellent. Denny, did you happen to read his short story The Death of Captain Future -- think that was the name. That was a great nod to the old pulps.

You just made me move "Sex and Violence in Zero G," one of Steele's short story collections, to the top of my "read next" pile. I've read all of his novels, but not The Death of Captain Future. It's in that anthology, though.

He has a really interesting short story series going in Asimov's right now, about colonizing another planet. It starts with a bit of an amusing twists -- it's a world where the US is fractured and there's a totalitarian conservative govenment with spaceships named after Jesse Helms and other vile creatures. :) Leaves that behind rather quickly, though. You can actually get the individual short stories at fictionwise.com -- I believe that at least one of them is currently free.

It's not a novel, but I have a fondness for Asimov's I, Robot collection of stories. He's not a great writer, but he can be a lot of fun. His most famous story is Nightfall, I suppose, which I just don't see as deserving as much acclaim as it got.

Always really enjoyed Asimov. The fact that much of his fiction is dated scientifically now doesn't bother me. I really enjoy the speculative nature, even if things didn't turn out the way they hoped. Besides, its nice to read fiction from a time when the human race was still optimistic. Nice break from the real world where our crappy space station only does 14 hours of science a week because after spending tens of billions to build it they won't spend a few hundred million more to equip it with a lifeboat to allow a staff larger than that needed for janitorial and maintenance duties.

As for short stories versus novels, I really dig both. There are times that characters or worlds are so engaging that a short story just don't give you enough of them. Very much depends, I think, on whether the story hinges on a characterization in a future environment, or a plot twist/wrinkle.

Anonymous

07-23-2002, 01:58 PM

Hmmmm...no one has mentioned my favorite sci-fi author/book:

Stanislaw Lem--The Cyberiad, a completely hilarious book about two competing robot/inventors.

Also on my list (but I'm more of a fantasy reader....)

Snow Crash
Burning Chrome (Gibson's first book of short stories, which I actually prefer to Neuromancer--which I also love)
Ender's Game
Anything by Douglas Adams, R.I.P

And on Heinlein: I tried to reread Stranger in a Strange Land a few years ago, and gave up out of disgust over the mediocre writing and VERY dated sexist shit.....

And whoever mentioned Murakami's Hard Boiled Wonderland---I'm not sure if I'd put it in the sci-fi category, but that is one of the greatest novels I've ever read. I still think about it all the time--very haunting and beautiful.

Jason Levine

07-23-2002, 02:34 PM

The reason the first three Foundation books don't work very well as novels is because they're not novels. Each "chapter" in these books is a short story originally published in John Campbell's Astounding magazine. Asimov intended each subsequent story to build on the previous one, but he didn't visualize them in book form. They were only collected into the first three books in the series after the fact.

A wonderful Asimov novel, written as a novel, is The Gods Themselves written in 1972.

Mark Asher

07-23-2002, 02:40 PM

"I really enjoy the speculative nature, even if things didn't turn out the way they hoped. Besides, its nice to read fiction from a time when the human race was still optimistic."

Me too. It was one of the things that originally attracted me to SF. I liked the notion that intellect and science could solve all of the curveballs that the universe throws us. The lack of that optimism in a lot of recent SF is probably one of the reasons it doesn't sell nearly as well as fantasy, with fantasy's appealing bucolic setting and simplistic back-to-nature mysticsm. Fantasy has the premise that the world, tainted by evil, can be set aright through noble deeds, while SF nowadays seems to have the premise that the dystopian future sucks, but maybe we can keep from getting completely crushed by it if we're clever and lucky enough.

Bub, Andrew

07-23-2002, 02:45 PM

Always really enjoyed Asimov. The fact that much of his fiction is dated scientifically now doesn't bother me. I really enjoy the speculative nature, even if things didn't turn out the way they hoped. Besides, its nice to read fiction from a time when the human race was still optimistic. .

I've been on a recent ERBurroughs/HGWells/Jules Verne kick recently for pretty much the same reason. It's nice to read less cynical non-computerized sci-fi.

As for short stories versus novels, I really dig both. There are times that characters or worlds are so engaging that a short story just don't give you enough of them. Very much depends, I think, on whether the story hinges on a characterization in a future environment, or a plot twist/wrinkle.

Short stories pack an impact, which gives them an advantage in genres where surprise or wonder are crucial. Horror and sci-fi especially, mystery and crime too. I've been looking at a collector friend's copies of Weird Tales from the 30's and I'm amazed at how much quality fiction that magazine was hosting. Regularly. I mourn the death of the short story anthology magazine. Weird Tales has been resurrected, as a home to mediocre Lovecraft ripoffs, but thankfully Asimov's, Ellery Queen, and Alfred Hitchcock keeping the short story format alive.

Mark Asher

07-23-2002, 02:54 PM

"Hmmmm...no one has mentioned my favorite sci-fi author/book:

"Stanislaw Lem--The Cyberiad, a completely hilarious book about two competing robot/inventors."

Read Lem's The Star Diaries. That's also quite funny. Really funny. Laugh out loud funny. The first chapter/story is classic. Ion Tichy is alone on his spaceship and the stardrive gets stuck; he dons a spacesuit and attempts repairs and discovers that a simple bolt that needs to be turned requires two people. The ship rockets onward, falling into time pools or something or other and multiple versions of Ion Tichy appear and rather than fix the ship, they argue about which of them will fix the ship. It's so funny. One Ion Tichy is narrating and talks of finding a chocolate bar and hiding under a bed to eat it unobserved by other Ion Tichys, only to be clubbed in the head with a wrench, and then the narration will shift and we'll hear the indignation of another Ion Tichy as he discovers a knave hiding under the bed eating the last chocolate bar and how he promptly clubs him. It's such a great send up of human nature.

Supertanker

07-23-2002, 03:03 PM

"I prefer short stories to novels when it comes to SF"

I do too. I think SF works better that way.

Me three. As Mark points out in a later post, the writer usually just extrapolates from an interesting idea or concept. When these ideas are instead put on the medieval rack of novelization, they get pretty thin. Ender's Game is the perfect example to me - incredible short story, but I hated the novel. As the saga grew, I started calling it Ender's Dune. Save me from any more forced trilogies or interminable series. Harry Turtledove is the worst offender for that crime - why write a story in one or two novels when 9 or 12 will do?

I like hardware and military science fiction, so I enjoy some Hammer's Slammers books, too. David Drake is the Tom Clancy of space - for both good and bad. In the same vein, I also recommend reading the There Will Be War books. They are collections of military science fiction edited by Jerry Pournelle. There is lots of dreck, so don't be afraid to skip over something, but some real gems are to be found.

For hard science fiction, I like a lot of earlier Niven stuff. Once he fell in with Pournelle, his writing turned to crap. Later he got real lazy & just recycled stuff - Footfall is just Lucifer's Hammer with animal-pattern aliens (it would have been too obvious to use tiger men again). Footfall is also a good example of bad politically-oriented science fiction - Earth is saved using future weapons that Pournelle advocates for development/deployment.

R is for Rocket is one of my top 5, but mostly because it was the first science fiction book I read. Bradbury remains one of my favorite short story authors, not just in science fiction.

Cyberpunk-wise, I recommend Mirrorshades. It is a short story collection edited by Bruce Stirling, and is sort of a brief history of the genre. It also contains The Gernsback Continuum, my favorite Gibson short story. I think Dogfight is in there, too, which is a must-read for any gamer. That may be in Burning Chrome if not in Mirrorshades.

My guilty pleasure is S.M. Stirling's Draka series and The General series. Did I say that out loud?

Heinlein I liked much more as a teenager than as an adult. Times have changed, and a lot of his mid- and late-career stuff comes across more as adolescent wish fulfillment than great fiction. (The first Heinlein book I ever read was "Friday." The cover alone sucked me in as a 15-year-old. The inside didn't disappoint either. But now much of it seems gratuitous.)

I remember having an argument in college with an idiot on my dorm hall about Friday. He maintained that it was great fiction, but truthfully he was just turned on by the cover and the sex scenes. I countered that the book was shite, and the sex scenes did nothing for plot or character development, they were simply gratuitous. Soft porn at best. We never resolved that, but he was later academically dismissed from the school because of his inability to pass bonehead English (five tries, IIRC). I declared myself winner after that. I still like Starship Troopers, though.

Jason Levine

07-23-2002, 03:15 PM

Just a slight disagreement with SuperTanker about Niven and Pournelle. The Mote in God's Eye was wonderful, but I agree absolutely on Lucifer's Hammer and Footfall.

My favorite Heinlein is the collection of his "Future History" stories: The Past Through Tomorrow

Sharpe

07-23-2002, 04:59 PM

Hmm, some pretty good recommendations here. I definitely agree with the Niven, Asimov, PK Dick, Stanislaw Lem and Brin picks. Those 5 authors would probably round out my top 10 list. Also, since I am a real hard sci-fi junky I'd have to recommend something by Hal Clement, maybe "Mission of Gravity".

Since people are mentioning short stories I'll just throw in 5 highly recommended collections, in no particular order. This is not comprehensive:

Larry Niven, Tales of Know Space. This contains a number of classic "hard sci fi" stories from the 60s and 70s including Neutron Star, one of my early exposures to a real physics story in sci fi.

David Brin, The River of Time. A truly great collection of Brin short stories from the 80s before he got married, had kids and became overly PC. The title story is great, but this collection also includes the award winning Crystal Spheres, along with the truly fun Thor Meets Captain America and my own personal favorite Lungfish.

Walter Jon Williams, Facets. Another great collection from a somewhat under-appreciated author. Williams does not have one formula; he writes space opera, cyber-punk, contemporary, science fantasy etc. This collection has the title story (very reminiscent of Zelazny's classic The Lights of his Face, the Lamps of his Mouth) but this collection is memorable for Flatliners which I consider one of the best "very short" stories ever, plus the uniquely cool Dinosaurs.

Robert Heinlein, The Green Hills of Earth. A classic collection of "good" Heinlein from his early to middle period, including a bunch of the optimistic, early space exploration titles. The title story along with They Also Walk Dogs are worthy of note.

William Gibson, Burning Chrome. Although Mirrorshades is excellent, I consider this to be THE definitive 80s cyberpunk collection. Its all by Gibson but includes standout stories like New Rose Hotel, John Memnonic (repeat after me: THERE IS NO MOVIE), and my all time favorite cyberpunk short, Burning Chrome.

Sparky

07-23-2002, 05:26 PM

As the saga grew, I started calling it Ender's Dune.

I skipped most of his stuff after Ender's Game, but enjoyed Ender's Shadow (which was just Ender's Game from Bean's perspective instead of Ender). Haven't read the most recent one (Shadow of the Hegemon), though.

wumpus

07-23-2002, 08:12 PM

Greenie

07-23-2002, 08:16 PM

For sheer fun, my favorite has to be Bujold's Vorkosigan series.

I have to second this, Miles Vorkosigan is such a great character that I quickly purchased the whole series after a friend made me read "Borders of Infinity." And to think for a long time I had avoided the series just beacuse of the pulpy romance-novel covers!

I would put "Borders of Infinity" in my top 5 list.

I also really like Vinge, early Heinlein and Gibson, but here's two other books that didn't get mentioned yet:

"Rendezvouz with Rama" by Arthur Clarke - My favorite first contact novel, I loved the alien-ness of Rama and the details of the exploration. I remember reading it in junior high and thinking how neat it was to read a book where scientists and engineers and technicians are the heroes.

"Way Station" by Clifford Simak - Great story about a human chosen to be the "custodian" of a galactic transit stop on Earth that's hidden on his farm, and what happens when it begins to draw too much attention...

mtkafka

07-23-2002, 09:32 PM

I'm surprised nobody mentioned high school classics like Earth Abides or Flowers for Algernon... or something like 1984 or Brave New World. I personally thought Earth Abides was pretty cool, sorta pastoral (if you can call post apocalyptic pastoral!).

I also like Murakam's non post modern 'sf' stuff, particulalrly Norwegian Wood (depressing but good book about love and being twentysomethingish!).

And Stanislaw Lem was cool, because... he thought PK Dick was the best sf author! I try to avoid the completely satirical sf stuff. I can't stand Douglas Adams... though I can understand why hes popular (like aMonty Python in space thing sorta). One thing I like about PK Dick so much is his characters are neither sf scientists/explorers/military soldiers or noirish detectives but normal day Joe Schmoe's ... even somebody like Deckard in Do Androids Dream (a completely different novel than movie) is just a normal guy.

etc

mtkafka

07-23-2002, 09:39 PM

""Rendezvouz with Rama" by Arthur Clarke - My favorite first contact novel, I loved the alien-ness of Rama and the details of the exploration. I remember reading it in junior high and thinking how neat it was to read a book where scientists and engineers and technicians are the heroes. "

Yeah I love Arthur C Clarke's non 2001 books. Supposdely Rama was going to be a David Fincher movie! But Ithink it got canned.

etc

wumpus

07-23-2002, 10:47 PM

Read Lem's The Star Diaries. That's also quite funny. Really funny. Laugh out loud funny. The first chapter/story is classic. Ion Tichy is alone on his spaceship and the stardrive gets stuck; he dons a spacesuit and attempts repairs and discovers that a simple bolt that needs to be turned requires two people. The ship rockets onward, falling into time pools or something or other and multiple versions of Ion Tichy appear and rather than fix the ship, they argue about which of them will fix the ship.
That reminds me. When I included Lem in my five, I wasn't referring to Lem's wacky zany kooky novels. Don't care for those. I was thinking of his darker serious fiction like Solaris, Fiasco, Invincible, etc. You get a great sense of how profoundly fucked up it would be if we did encounter alien life-- we probably wouldn't even recognize it as such. And even if we did, I think it'd play out as a comedy of errors. At best! None of that hokey Jodie Foster "Contact" crap. At worst, it could be something like.. say, magnify the plight of the American Indian by a thousand. With us playing either side of that scenario.

Lantz

07-24-2002, 12:08 PM

While I agree with a lot of the books/names so far, I can't believe I haven't seen Iain M Banks (not to be confused with the non-SF books he writes a Iain no-M Banks) show up. Excession is one of the best books I've read across all genres, and all of the rest of his "Culture" based books are brilliant.

Gordon Cameron

07-28-2002, 06:14 PM

Here are my five favorite.

1) The First Men in the Moon, H.G. Wells: The best conception of an alien civilization I have read, and also a rollicking (but quite dark) adventure story to boot. Wells is not a master of characterization, but his writing at its best is haunting and memorable, as well as full of sci-fi food for thought. The final page of "The First Men in the Moon" has haunted me for years.

2) The Martian Chronicles, Ray Bradbury: The apotheosis of the "dying Martian civilization" meme that we inherited from Percival Lowell and Edgar Rice Burroughs. While this is only marginally a novel (it's really a collection of short stories unified by time and place), this is maybe the most atmospheric sci-fi I've ever read. My favorite stories are "Though the Moon Be Still as Bright" (I believe that's what it's called -- anyway it's the one with Spender), "The Musicians," and the one (can't remember what it's called) where a human and a Martian meet one another in a sort of time-slip.

3) The Man in the High Castle: I've read a few Philip K. Dick books (Martian Time Slip, Solar Lottery, A Maze of Death, A Scanner Darkly) and none of them has quite done it for me. Dick's best moments are better than most sci-fi authors have ever achieved, but his books as a whole always seem a little ungainly to me. (Also, like Dickens, they all tend to blend into one uber-novel.) Still, this is probably my favorite of his works. I like Mr. Tagomi, and I like the scene where the Japanese guy evaluates the American's cheap tchotchkes and sort of runs circles around him, insulting him without actually insulting him.

4) Oh something by Le Guin. Left Hand of Darkness, maybe, or the Dispossessed. Actually my favorite sci-fi by her is from the collection of short stories, "A Fisherman of the Inland Sea." It's the last story in that collection, same name as the book title, of novella length.

5) Maybe Neuromancer, for its tone and setting (not its all-over-the-place plot). Or 1984, for its political importance and meticulous articulation of our deepest fears. Or "The Gods of Mars" for its rollicking John Carter adventure (unreadable after age 15, though). Or another one by Wells, the Time Machine, because of its brilliant depiction of the end of the world.

Jessica

07-29-2002, 04:50 AM

For hard science fiction, I like a lot of earlier Niven stuff. Once he fell in with Pournelle, his writing turned to crap. Later he got real lazy & just recycled stuff - Footfall is just Lucifer's Hammer with animal-pattern aliens (it would have been too obvious to use tiger men again). Footfall is also a good example of bad politically-oriented science fiction - Earth is saved using future weapons that Pournelle advocates for development/deployment.

Actually, according to the authors, Footfall was written before Lucifer's Hammer. Their editor was reading early proofs, called them up and exclaimed, "Forget the aliens; concentrate on the comet!" I found both books good reads, personally.

And Orion wasn't a weapons platform; it was an early idea for space travel that was nixed due to the use of nuclear weapons as the propulsion source. I think you're reading in your own politics here; there is nothing about the book that is a political tract.

Jessica

07-29-2002, 05:10 AM

It is hard to pick just five favorites, but here goes, in no particular order:

The Mote in God's Eye by Niven and Pournelle. The quintessential first contact novel. I've probably read this one a dozen times over the years.

The Moon is a Harsh Mistress by Heinlein. For the reasons already posted by others. I still tear up at the final few paragraphs.

Starship Troopers by Heinlein. If there is a more misunderstood book in all of sci-fi, I don't know which one it is. To my mind, a good read on what becomes moral behavior above the "me and mine" level. Remember, it is not just about 'when' to fight, but individuals figuring out 'why' to fight for a society at all. And death to Verhoeven for turning a masterpiece into a piece of leather boy, testosterone-poisoned trash.

True Names by Vernor Vinge. One of his earliest works and surely the best. In the very early 1980s, long before Stephenson was cashing in on a 'Metaverse' that already partially existed, Vinge addressed the issues we are dealing with today, including the effects of anonymity in a wired world. If you haven't read it, do.

The Islands in the Stream of Time series by S.M. Stirling. Just a plain, good old read. Get all three books; if you haven't read them, I envy you your first time through.

Anonymous

07-29-2002, 04:30 PM

1. "Crash" by J.G. Ballard
2. "Random Acts of Senseless Violence" by Jack Womack
3. "White Noise" by Don DeLillo
4. "The War of the Worlds" by H.G. Wells
5. "Rubicon Beach" by Steve Erickson

Brad Grenz

07-30-2002, 12:02 AM

I just finished War of the Worlds yesterday. I thought it was great. Not at all like what I thought it would be. My impression had been hopelessly corrupted by Orson Wells. I just bought the first issue of the League of Extraordinary Men Volume 2 which draws heavily from, among other things, War of the Worlds.

Xaroc

07-30-2002, 08:06 AM

Sorry for the off topic but does Jessica=JessicaM? If so why the switch? Are you going for that whole Madonna or Tiger single name thing? Inquiring minds want to know.

-- Xaroc

Jim F.

07-30-2002, 09:45 AM

I skipped most of his stuff after Ender's Game, but enjoyed Ender's Shadow (which was just Ender's Game from Bean's perspective instead of Ender). Haven't read the most recent one (Shadow of the Hegemon), though.

Speaker For The Dead is well worth reading, in my opinion. It's rather heavy on morality, but it is also grounded in grass roots science fiction.

Xenocide wasn't worth the weeks it too me to read it. He went way out there trying to look like a creative writer and instead came off as an idiot (in my opinion, again)

Ender's Shadow was, to me, Card tearing apart his own world. So 1) Ender wasn't the real tactical genius, Bean was. 2) even though religion was outlawed, there are nuns and churches? 3) Even though Ender's game expressly says that Anderson created all the challenges for Ender, now we're told is was all Bean's doing and 4) if they could genetically engineer geniuses, why not do it? Who cares that they would die after 20 years, they only needed them to win battles for a few months. Bean obviously lived long enough to go through all the training and participate in the final battle. Engineer 100 perfect commanders, raise them from birth working together, and then make them as comfortable as possible until their hearts give out.

I could keep ranting about Ender's Shadow for some time, but I'll save you all the trouble. :)

OK, one more thing... The forward to the turtleback version of Ender's Game reprints a letter that was written to Orson Scott Card from a helicopter pilot in the Gulf War. The pilot stated that Ender was his inspiration when he was in flight school and later when he was flying combat missions. Ya see, Ender always found a way to win, and that's what inspired this pilot (and some of his fellow pilots). And no matter how many people he hurt and killed, he still kept his humanity. I think that sums up that entire appeal of Ender's Game for me. And to have Card then say that it wasn't Ender's doing, that he wasn't really good enough to win every time. Well, that's just a slap in the face of the first book and the people who fell in love with the character.

Jessica

07-31-2002, 04:19 AM

Sorry for the off topic but does Jessica=JessicaM? If so why the switch? Are you going for that whole Madonna or Tiger single name thing? Inquiring minds want to know.

-- Xaroc

Yeah, it's me (JessicaM). I cleaned out my cookies, couldn't remember my password, so I used the "Forget your password?" thingy. The link I received in email didn't work, sent an email back to the admin email addy, no response, so set up a new one. Didn't consider it a big enough deal to bother Mark with directly.

Ben Sones

07-31-2002, 11:18 AM

My picks:

The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, by Robert Heinlein. I recently reread this and confirmed that it is, in my opinion, the best thing Heinlein ever wrote.

Dune, by Frank Herbert. Yeah, the series got pretty stale after the fourth book, but the original is still as fantastic as it ever was.

The Stars My Destination, by Alfred Bester. It's a bit dated in some ways, particularly with regard to the role of women in a modern society, but it's still a great book.

Flowers for Algernon, by Daniel Keyes. Wonderful.

The Tripods, by John Christopher. Technically a trilogy (The White Mountains, The City of Gold and Lead, The Pool of Fire), and also technically a book for younger readers. Christopher is a British writer (they seem to have more respect for the intellgence of younger readers), however, and these books are well suited to an older audience. Think of them as the sci-fi equivalent of the Chronicles of Narnia. If you like them (and the post apocalyptic theme in general), No Blade of Grass (also by Christopher) is also quite good.

If we want to include graphic novels (and why not), I'd throw in Miyazaki's Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind. For light sci-fi reading, I've always been a closet fan of Harry Harrison's Stainless Steel Rat books. Shhh... don't tell anyone... ;)

Kevin Perry

07-31-2002, 11:43 AM

Was the Tripods serialized in comic form in Boy's Life long, long ago?

I have a vague memory of a serial featuring kids being herded by giant tripods.

Ben Sones

07-31-2002, 11:54 AM

Yes, it was, but only the first book, I believe. It wasn't nearly as good as the real thing, in any event.

Jim Hoffman

07-31-2002, 12:37 PM

The Tripods, by John Christopher.

Wow, I'd forgotten all about those. I read them about.. 20 years ago, I think. I agreet that they were very enjoyable, but I wouldn't put them in my top 5.

DTG

08-07-2002, 09:13 AM

Looks like I'm more simple-minded that lots of folks here. I basically like Clarke, Bradbury, Bova (ouch!), Card. If I had to pick books:

1. Red Mars (Kim Stanley Robinson) . I didn't care so much for Green and Blue. I liked the politics.

2. Childhood's End (Clarke). I just read this for the 1st time. More of a short story than a novel.

3. Pastwatch (Card). I thought the basic idea was excellent, and he didn't drag it out too much. Maybe tied w/ Ender's Game, but he did start to spin out of control by the end of that series.

4. Dune and Dune Messiah.

5. Rendevous w/ Rama

Clarke and Bradbury are the only "1st generation" sci-fi writer that still click with me. I read Asimov when younger because everyone said how great he was, but I never really enjoyed it even then - - I'm sure it would have had more impact on me had I read it in the 50's or 60's, but it seemed too dated by the 80's. Heinlein's novels just creeped me out, but the short stories were ok.

Tyjenks

08-07-2002, 09:31 AM

Mmmmm...bradberrys.....delicious.

The Illustrated Man stories were terrific, I thought. I think I will break that one back out of the attic when I get home.

Mark Asher

08-07-2002, 12:13 PM

Damn, the Illustrated Man wouldn't stand out in the crowd these days, what with all the tatoos people are wearing.

DennyA

08-07-2002, 01:20 PM

DTG,

Don't feel bad about Bova.. I enjoy a lot of his stuff. I have an autographed author's proof of Mars that Ben sent me duing my OMNI days.

(Even cooler, my editor was mentioned in Asimov's will... Left him a tie. :lol: )

Kalle

08-08-2002, 12:57 AM

Books in no particular order

The Mars trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson - Sci fi novels where the future will (eventually) be better and brighter. Like others have stated already, that kind of optimism is hard to find in current sci fi. The series is at its best in the first book, but the two sequals are very good too.

1984 - Simply the best political novel ever written bar none. It chills me to the bone every time I read it. I remember reading it when I was twelve (yes, I was an advanced reader) and I didn't comprehend the tragedy of the story back then, it was just some old fool's stupid vision of the future.The first time I reread it as an adult it was just like the book slapped me in the face and shouted "wake up! this could happen!" at me.

Do androids dream of electric sheep? by Philip K Dick - I haven't seen Blade Runner yet, maybe I should, but the story is very well done. Now, besides Blade Runner and Minority Report, what other Dick stories have been made inot movies?

Gibson, pretty much anything he wrote back in the 80's. Johnny Mnemonic stands out in my mind, not because it's exceptional compared to his other work, but rather because it's a good short story that pretty much captures what his work was all about. Oh, whatever you do, you do *NOT* want to see the movie.

People have mentioned "The moon is a harsh mistress". Personally I think it is well written, and certainly the best Heinlein novel I have read, but to my mind the suspension of disbelief is just not there. If you ship convicts far, far, away, let them manage themselves and to top it off have a hefty shortage of women, the result will not be the capitalistic libertarian utopia that Heinlein describes. What you would have, in short, is anarchy in it's most violent and brutal form.

Tyjenks

08-08-2002, 01:29 PM

I haven't seen Blade Runner yet, maybe I should, but the story is very well done. Now, besides Blade Runner and Minority Report, what other Dick stories have been made inot movies?

I think Total Recall was.

And there is NO maybe about. See Blade Runner.

Bub, Andrew

08-08-2002, 02:29 PM

Gordon Cameron

08-11-2002, 09:40 PM

In my job, I've read a few Dick books to see whether they could be used for movies... i.e. Solar Lottery, A Scanner Darkly, and A Maze of Death. I know that A Scanner Darkly was adapted to screenplay form and may end up getting made. (Maybe it's already in production, actually... I'm not sure but I think there was some director or other attached to it.)

wumpus

08-11-2002, 10:54 PM

Yeah Total Recall was. I love Dick's story title: "We'll Remember it for you Wholesale". There was a sci-fi flick starring Gary Sinese last year that was based on one of his stories as well. "Imposter"
Right. I rented that based on the mention here (I remember when it was released, but I had kinda forgotten about the movie since then). It's a decent B movie, though you can tell that it was sort of artificially stretched out from some kind of 30 minute short film.. which is included in the DVD extras.

I'd give it a tentative thumbs up if you're a sci-fi fan or a PKD fan.

mtkafka

08-12-2002, 12:22 AM

Ben Sones

08-12-2002, 05:49 AM

You have seen the director's cut of Blade Runner, right? Just checking. It's about ten times better than the theatrical release (which I liked, at the time), for those who haven't seen it. Still different than the book, but a very, very good sci-fi movie--my favorite, in fact.

DrCrypt

08-12-2002, 06:48 AM

I wish someone would make a movie of Phillip K. Dick's "Counter-Clock World". The premise of the novel is that time starts going backwards in the universe while people's perception of time continues to go forwards. So people are born when they die, and when they are "born" they are absorbed back into their mother's womb.

But the most fascinating parts of the novel are the parts detailing eating meals and using the toilet. I'm sure you all could use your own imagination, but I'll use it for you: when someone needs to "eat", they sit on the toilet and a pre-processed pellet goes swimming down the drain pipes, counter-gravitationally leaps up the individual's rectum and begins to wind its way through their digestive system, only to be vomitted forth after a day or two as a steaming, gastronomic delight.

Sometimes, I just sit back and stare at the stars, dreamy-eyed as I imagine all of the Hollywood actors who I would cast as the hapless protagonist in the above scene. Arnold Schwarzenneger, who has done Dick before, is a current mental favorite.

mtkafka

08-14-2002, 12:29 AM

Mork and Mindy ripped off Counter Clock World!

etc

Anonymous

08-14-2002, 04:58 PM

I already have a longer list made up which I'll post here. There's a mix of SF and Fantasy.

D.F. Jones: Don't Pick the Flowers. Out of print. Exciting ecological thriller.

Frank Herbert. The Dune novels. He wrote six books in the series and my favorites are the first and the fifth, both of which would be on my top ten list.

Robert Heinlein. Almost all his work is good although the quality did drop off in the last few years of his life. A great writer.

John Cramer. Einstein's Bridge; Twister. Hard sci-fi with interesting stories and characters.

Isaac Asimov. Often very good indeed.

Joe Haldeman: The Forever War.

Larry Niven et al: The Legacy of Heorot.

David Gerrold: The War against the Chtorr series.

George Stewart: Earth Abides.

Gregory Benford: Timescape. Some of his other books were also very good although I forget which ones.

Patrick Tilley: The Amtrak Wars series

Roger Zelazny. I like about half his work very much indeed. Good places to start would be with "Eye of Cat" or the first in the Amber series.

Orson Scott Card. Ender's Game. His masterpiece (which he keeps revisiting).

Stephen King. It. I was impressed by the way he used a clever structure to tell two interlocking narratives. It's his best story in my opinion, although I also enjoyed The Talisman, The Stand and the original novella that became the movie called The Shawshank Redemption.

William Gibson: Neuromancer

J.R.R. Tolkein: The Lord of the Rings

Connie Willis: Bellwether

J.R. Rawling: The Harry Potter series

L. Ron Hubbard. I like a lot of his science fiction and fantasy work. One of my favorites is a very light fantasy set in a New York hotel, called "The Ghoul."

Neal Stephenson: Snowcrash; Cryptonomicon,

Dennis Wheatley: The Devil Rides Out; Strange Conflict; The Haunting of Toby Jugg.

Jack Vance. Emphyrio

Robert Sawyer. Usually does solid Sci-Fi stories although I recommend staying clear of Starplex.

Freddie
[email protected]

Gordon Cameron

08-14-2002, 06:04 PM

Gregory Benford: Timescape. Some of his other books were also very good although I forget which ones.

I liked "Sailing Bright Eternity."

Lee Johnson

08-15-2002, 07:27 AM

Cosm wasn't bad, either.

graller

08-16-2002, 02:39 PM

Vernor Vinge - Fire in the Deep or Deepness in the Sky
China Mieville - Perdido Street Station - blend of steam-punk and some fantasy
Neal Stephenson - I am from Boston and read Zodiac too and found it a hoot. The only I did not love was Diamond Age
David Brin - Any - Personal fav's are Uplift series and Earth
Stephen Donaldson - Maybe a controversial choice. I place him here for his "Gap" Cycle. The first book in this series is "awful". It is everything people don't like about him condensed in a one book prequel. Rape, Crimes, Mental/Physical abuse - you name it its in there. The next book is middling. The last 3 are some of the best SF I have ever read. The series is Wagner's famous Ring cycle converted to galactic space opera.

Tyjenks

12-30-2002, 09:33 AM

Impostor was an okay movie, the end is pretty cool, and is pretty faithful to Dick type themes, but the director was a bit loud with all the fast cut action editing at parts.... I still think Total Recall is the best Dick movie only because its actually pretty funny and the director got the gist of the everyday joe schmoe type character that's in most Dick stories. Dick is pretty funny and tragic in his novels... without being cruel.... one thing I like about him. The Blade Runner movie was good too, but Deckerd is completely different in the novel (being married) and he even thought he was an android as well.

etc

Just finished my first Dick novel. Do Androids..... Wow, what a good, fast read. Definitely not a book where the author has an abundance of suffocating exposition. You jump right in and you either get what he's saying or you don't. Climbing the hill, Mercer, empathy tubes, and the hallucinatory ending; initially my mind must have been a little slow in jumping into a Sci-Fi world. Its been a while since my Bradbury days, I guess.

I have been, primarily, a horror and fantasy nut when it comes to reading. Love Sci-fi TV and movies, though. I believe I will start mining this thread for some different material for my lunchtime meditations.

antlers

12-30-2002, 02:27 PM

Speaking of Philip K. Dick inspired movies: There was a movie a few years back called "Screamers" about some unhappily intelligent minefields that I believe was based on a story of his. I think myself and my wife were the only people who saw that movie in theaters...

My top 5

Solaris - Stanislaw Lem
Dune - Frank Herbert
Snow Crash - Neil Stephenson
Philip K. Dick - The Divine Invasion

and for something that hasn't been mentioned before
The Paradox Men - Charles L. Harness--classic hard science/space opera/time travel/mankind's destiny, summing up a lot of themes of Golden Age science fiction

And speaking of Golden Age science fiction, let me recommend Adventures in Time and Space, a collection of 30's and 40's science fiction that originally appeared in Astounding Stories magazine. This collection was originally published in 1946, and is currently out of print, but it is chock full of classic tales--an astonishing percentage of which seemed later to show up as Star Trek plots.

Russ

12-30-2002, 09:55 PM

In no particular order and highly subject to change as I think about it more:
Forever War
Dune
Player of Games
Brave New World
Doomsday Book

I like these kind of threads because I get ideas for future reads. Thanks.

Union Carbide

12-30-2002, 11:56 PM

I love Neal Stephenson's writing, but the guy can't write an ending to save his life.

Those of you that like Stephenson and aren't aware of his pseudonym should check out Interface (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0553572407/qid=1041322274/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/104-0732983-3960750) and The Cobweb (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0553378287/qid=1041322362/sr=1-4/ref=sr_1_4/104-0732983-3960750?v=glance&s=books) by "Stephen Bury." The former is a mildly scifi political thriller, the latter a mystery set in the months leading up to Desert Storm I.

In no particular order, some of my favs are:
Starship Troopers - Heinlein (there is no movie)
Pretty much any Heinlein.
Mote in God's Eye - Niven/Pournelle
Fallen Anges - Niven/Pournelle/et al.
Foundation - Asimov
Inferno - Niven/Pournelle (not really scifi but still a good read)
Hobart Floyt/Alacrity Fitzhugh trilogy - Brian Daley (Daley also wrote some of the first Star Wars novels back in the early 80s. Oh, and he novelized Tron. heh.)

antlers

12-31-2002, 08:33 AM

I guess I am the only one who liked Starship Troopers (the movie). I think it's the best thing Verhoeven has ever done (which I realize isn't saying much)--its over-the-topness seems much more clever, stylized and self-parodying than in his other films. I liked the video-game framing device, which was matched by the video-game quality of the acting. Obviously it wasn't true to the book (which I don't remember that welll since I haven't read it since I was nine) but its exuberant celebration of the nihilistic appeal of total militarization, a totally demonizable enemy, and casual sex seemed in keeping with the themes of some of Heinlein's work.

If I thought Verhoeven were capable of it, I might even argue that it was a cautionary tale. Walter Benjamin argued that film was the essential medium of fascism. Verhoeven seemed to be saying that while film is great for fascism, video games are even more suited to it--being placed in a regime of instant gratification in an invented moral universe is so much fun, we should be careful of its appeal. I mean, isn't the film prophetic of the U.S. Army's use of a videogame to recruit for a war against terrorism?

Of course my argument would be more interesting if the film had actually been any sort of cultural event. Instead, it was something that most people weren't interested in. People hated it for the very reason I found it interesting: the almost total lack of characterization.