Kanye West = twat

[Gary Whitta]

LOL

http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/Music/11/03/mtvawards.kanye.ap/index.html

[Tyjenks]

Fuckin' douchebag. Is it wrong for me to wish him dead?

[JMR]

This up on YouTube yet? Sounds like it tops Old Dirty Bastard's "these clothes costed me a lot of money" tirade when he lost out on whatever the fuck awards show it was years ago.

[RichVR]

So, what's this "rap" stuff?

[Qenan]

Imagine crossing Dr. Suess with random pop schlock. That's rap.

[Joel]

Imagine crossing Dr. Suess with random pop schlock. That's rap.

Haha. Way to be white and an idiot.

[Warning]

Imagine crossing Dr. Suess with random pop schlock. That's rap.
Imagine spelling Dr. Seuss correctly when you're making a snarky criticism.

[John Merva]

Haha. Way to be white and an idiot.
Haha. Way to be white and a hero of the suffering masses.

[Squirrel Killer]

If I don't win, the awards show loses credibility.
Come on, Justin Timberlake won Best Male and Christina Aguilera won Best Female. I don't think credibility is this award's strong point.

[Marcus]

Christina Aguilera won Best Female

Thing is though Christina Aguilera actually has a good voice and talent.

[Robert Sharp]

Timberlake can sing. I just don't like that kind of music.

[shift6]

Come on, Justin Timberlake won Best Male and Christina Aguilera won Best Female. I don't think credibility is this award's strong point.
I don't know if they are the best, but both of them can definitely sing.

[Qenan]

Imagine spelling Dr. Seuss correctly when you're making a snarky criticism.

Fair enough.

[Squirrel Killer]

Thing is though Christina Aguilera actually has a good voice and talent.
Timberlake can sing.
I don't know if they are the best, but both of them can definitely sing.
All you guys need to turn in your berets post haste.

[Lunch of Kong]

On the other hand, Cee-Lo from Gnarls Barkley is awesome. :-)

[Hanzii]

All you guys need to turn in your berets post haste.

Christiana Aguilera is actually a very good singer with quite a range... not that I care for how she uses that talent. But it's there.

MTV is a joke and a parody of what it used to be years ago. The biggest 'MTV's lost it'-moment that night was fucking Lordi. The Eurovison Song Contest is the biggest joke in the world. A MTV wannabee with second rate performers that aren't even big stars in their home country and nothing great has ever come from that (I might give you ABBA, but that was a fluke and ancient history). Lordi was a joke played on the ESC which then made it to MTV making them the joke.

The show was a joke too. The Copenhagen council gave $1 million to MTV to come reasoning that it would bring tourists and market the city and that the show would be free. Turned out that to be one of the 7000 attendees you should either know a sponsor or pass an audition, so MTV could be sure only youngt, handsome and easily manipulated people would be a part. Guests were walkng out half way through because the temperature was below zero, nothing happened when the cameras wasn't on and most of the show was a big screen showing the awards ceremony (at a diiferent even harder to get into location) and the exact same tv-signal shown to the dwindling number of MTV viewers around the world.

[Rimbo]

Is Aguilera a good singer, or is she auto-tuned like 99% of the schlock on MTV nowadays?

[Backov]

Is Aguilera a good singer, or is she auto-tuned like 99% of the schlock on MTV nowadays?

Damn good singer. It's called "Snaptune" - google it. :)

Or don't I guess, some other Snaptune is the more prominent google result.

[SlyFrog]

George Bush hates black people.

[Joel]

Haha. Way to be white and a hero of the suffering masses.

Yes, because hip-hop is the only major new style of the last few decades and the predominate force in modern pop music because we all feel so bad about the plight of the poor darkie.

I don't care if someone don't like or get hip-hop and rap, but to intimate the whole genre is clap-trap is asinine.

[Not One Of Us]

They can sing.
Japan and anime has taught me that everyone and their mothers can sing.

[SlyFrog]

Yes, because hip-hop is the only major new style of the last few decades and the predominate force in modern pop music because we all feel so bad about the plight of the poor darkie.

I don't care if someone don't like or get hip-hop and rap, but to intimate the whole genre is clap-trap is asinine.

Well, most of the participants in it are crap. Even more than modern pop music, I'm sickened when I hear a hip-hop "star" have to perform live. For heaven's sake, it's already easier because you don't have to actually sing; could they possibly be able to do the one thing left (syncopation) with some skill? The lack of talent just shows right through. You listen to most bands, they can at least still play instruments in some sort of rough measure of connectedness.

Rap, on the other hand, consists of a bunch of people shuffling about, talking over each others lines (and then each backing off at the same time when they realized their "Yeeeah" accidentally cut off someone else's intro), off rhythm.

Rap annoys me because even more than modern pop music, you can tell that the average star really is not very talented, nor do they put much effort in to practice, etc. That's why the few half-way decent ones are even more impressive to me.

[extarbags]

Well, most of the participants in it are crap.

That's true of every single genre of music.

[Hanzii]

Well, most of the participants in it are crap. Even more than modern pop music, I'm sickened when I hear a hip-hop "star" have to perform live. For heaven's sake, it's already easier because you don't have to actually sing; could they possibly be able to do the one thing left (syncopation) with some skill? The lack of talent just shows right through. You listen to most bands, they can at least still play instruments in some sort of rough measure of connectedness.

Rap, on the other hand, consists of a bunch of people shuffling about, talking over each others lines (and then each backing off at the same time when they realized their "Yeeeah" accidentally cut off someone else's intro), off rhythm.

Rap annoys me because even more than modern pop music, you can tell that the average star really is not very talented, nor do they put much effort in to practice, etc. That's why the few half-way decent ones are even more impressive to me.


Good analysis there, gramps.

And that modern "music" called jazz the negroes are playing is just arandom assortment of noise on instruments they don't know how to play properly...

[Flowers]

The Ying Yang twins have Down's Syndrome.

[SlyFrog]

Good analysis there, gramps.

And that modern "music" called jazz the negroes are playing is just arandom assortment of noise on instruments they don't know how to play properly...

I love it. You didn't even read what I said, you literally just noted that it did not contain the words, "I wish I was black," and "Rap is a legitimate art form," and responded with automated response 2382.

Hey, lucky for you it's rap music. So rather than just admit deficiency, you can just call anyone who says anything about it old and assume they hate black people.

Good response. Race and age baiting has now been recognized as a valid cover your ass response by 4 out of 5 think tanks. Of course, it's a valid cover your ass response when you have nothing intelligent to say.

Oh wait, I'll respond in kind. "Hanzii, you damn young negro. Take your newfangled 'rap' music that I don't understand, and get off my lawn! I want to listen to the Statler Brothers."

Then you giggle furious, just like you do at the Dave Chappelle blind white supremicist sketch, because you like, totally get it.

[Odysseus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSAfjJQ38l0

He blames alcohol.

[MatthewF]

I would submit that there are different kinds of "rap," and the absolute bottom of the barrel, the worst shit you can possibly listen to, is the stuff that most people base their judgment on. Because the rest you really have to go out and look for, and if you're not a fan of it already, you're just not going to do that.

To simplify, if the song is about gangstas, bitches, guns, diamonds, 20" dubs, big asses, murder, 40's, baby mommas, or Escalades, it gets played on the radio. And what you hear on the radio is complete shit.

There are exceptions. Pharcyde, Blackalicious, Lyrics Born for example. But they make up about 0.001% of radio play.

[Matthew Gallant]

He blames alcohol.
Yeah right. If he was drunk, then why didn't he say ANYTHING about the Jews?

[Indierthanthou]

Rap annoys me because even more than modern pop music, you can tell that the average star really is not very talented, nor do they put much effort in to practice, etc. That's why the few half-way decent ones are even more impressive to me.

Just going off of your post, I have to say that you know next to nothing about rap/hip-hop. Seemingly your only reference for rap/hip-hop is MTV/Billboard, making your judgment the equivalent of someone saying "All modern literature is crap" after looking at the NYT Bestsellers list.

What is popular does not necessarily represent a medium (or at least I hope so - I do not want to believe that Danielle Steel represents the apex of modern literature).

[malphigian]

Hey, Kanye's last album was pretty darned good, but you could tell he was an asshole and egomaniac just by listening to it. This little performance is no real surprise.

On the other hand, Cee-Lo from Gnarls Barkley is awesome. :-)

Cee Lo is on a whole 'nother level. If you like Gnarls Barkley, you should check out Cee Lo's previous record "Cee Lo Green is the Soul Machine", it's pretty fantastic. Heck, even Gnarls Barkley's other half, dangermouse, made a nice record before -- Dangermouse&Jemini "Ghetto Pop Life". I little more lowbrow than Cee lo, but good stuff.

[SlyFrog]

Just going off of your post, I have to say that you know next to nothing about rap/hip-hop. Seemingly your only reference for rap/hip-hop is MTV/Billboard, making your judgment the equivalent of someone saying "All modern literature is crap" after looking at the NYT Bestsellers list.

What is popular does not necessarily represent a medium (or at least I hope so - I do not want to believe that Danielle Steel represents the apex of modern literature).

Difference being, I didn't say that. I specifically said that mass market rap lacks real talent. Time for the reality check, people need to read what is actually written and respond to that, not break out their Response X for rap arguments cliches.

I'm sure that there are good rappers. I'm sure because I have listened to some, and also seen some performing live who don't stumble and mumble their words off rhythm. That does not make up for the fact that pound for pound, most rap musicians that people have actually heard of and give a shit about are almost certainly less talented as a pool than most pop musicians that people have actually heard of and give a shit about.

It also does not change the fact that, like it or not, the ability to rap is not as impressive as the ability to sing. Those who sing (and sing well) have to both hit notes and keep rhythm. Those who rap have to keep rhythm. I'll take the two over the one any day.

Now if you are talking about people who free-form, then yes, I'm willing to listen to (and am persuaded) by the argument that freestyling lyrics is a talent all its own, and one that is difficult to do well. But most rappers that anyone cares about, again, are doing prepackaged crap. I have no idea whether Kanye can make shit up on the fly well, because I've never seen him do it. I have my doubts that most popular rappers can, however.

And please, the next, "Hey, I go to these really cool underground clubs, and you should check out Indie Band X, because they're really good, and it's the mass market stuff that's terrible, blah blah blah and you really don't understand the industry, man," argument gets it in the neck. I, and the rest of the world, have no desire to go to your smelly record store and walk through the waft of weed smoke to pick out the "good ones." I understand rap and hip-hop. I just don't care about some subteranean culture that 99.9999% of the world doesn't care about either. Making arguments that this .0001% group is "real" and if you don't understand that, you don't understand rap, is like saying if you don't understand some scene of hack artists in Soho, you just don't understand poetry.

[Gordon Cameron]

That's true of every single genre of music.

Yup, Sturgeon's law.

back to Kanye:

it "cost a million dollars, Pamela Anderson was in it. I was jumping across canyons."

I dunno, I think he makes a compelling argument.

[Gordon Cameron]

It also does not change the fact that, like it or not, the ability to rap is not as impressive as the ability to sing. Those who sing (and sing well) have to both hit notes and keep rhythm. Those who rap have to keep rhythm. I'll take the two over the one any day.

A pianist performing Chopin's Revolutionary Etude is also more impressive than one performing Bach's C Major Prelude from the Well Tempered Clavier... but sometimes I am in the mood to listen to the latter.

I generally agree that, insofar as rap downgrades the importance of melody (and it doesn't always) it's less interesting for me to listen to. But there seem to be enough varied aesthetic elements in play to admit of real craftmanship and expression. At the risk of severely dating myself, I'll say that Newcleus's "Jam On It" is a better listening experience than a lot of "melodic"songs* I have known, and good ones too.

*the song actually has plenty of melody in it, just not much in the vocals on the verses

[Indierthanthou]

Difference being, I didn't say that. I specifically said that mass market rap lacks real talent.

Please point out in this quote where you mention "mass market rap" and then I will apologize for misquoting you - unless "most of the participants"="mass market." If so, you need to go back and learn the English language (or at least learn something about music business).

Well, most of the participants in it are crap. Even more than modern pop music, I'm sickened when I hear a hip-hop "star" have to perform live. For heaven's sake, it's already easier because you don't have to actually sing; could they possibly be able to do the one thing left (syncopation) with some skill? The lack of talent just shows right through. You listen to most bands, they can at least still play instruments in some sort of rough measure of connectedness.

Rap, on the other hand, consists of a bunch of people shuffling about, talking over each others lines (and then each backing off at the same time when they realized their "Yeeeah" accidentally cut off someone else's intro), off rhythm.

Rap annoys me because even more than modern pop music, you can tell that the average star really is not very talented, nor do they put much effort in to practice, etc. That's why the few half-way decent ones are even more impressive to me.

[SlyFrog]

Please point out in this quote where you mention "mass market rap" and then I will apologize for misquoting you - unless "most of the participants"="mass market." If so, you need to go back and learn the English language (or at least learn something about music business).

You're trying too hard, and now you're just acting like a tool:

"Rap annoys me because even more than modern pop music, you can tell that the average star really is not very talented . . . ."

Yes, clearly I was talking about the guy playing underground clubs for an audience of 20.

[Indierthanthou]

You're trying to hard, and now you're just acting like a tool


The only tool I see in this thread is you - and Kanye West.

And just to be more substantive and less asshole - Great Hip-Hop/Rap Artists Who Get More Than 20 People At a Show and Actually Sell Plenty of Records:

DJ Shadow, Jay-Z, The Roots, RJD2, Mos Def, De La Soul, MF Doom/Madvillain, Common - I could go on and on.

[Hanzii]

A pianist performing Chopin's Revolutionary Etude is also more impressive than one performing Bach's C Major Prelude from the Well Tempered Clavier... but sometimes I am in the mood to listen to the latter.

I generally agree that, insofar as rap downgrades the importance of melody (and it doesn't always) it's less interesting for me to listen to. But there seem to be enough varied aesthetic elements in play to admit of real craftmanship and expression. At the risk of severely dating myself...

Hey, you're exactly my age!

And Sly, I wasn't implying that you have a thing against black music, just that people have been saying that crap about any new music they didn't care for.
Hell, they even thought Mozart was wild and that Beethoven's stuff was too experimental.

So, there's a form of music you don't get - well get over it and listen to something else, gramps. Don't try to make it some universal truth that you don't like it because the performers are inferior to 'real muscians'.

I don't even like most rappers these days (and the ones I like best are white, so I'm the one with the bias if you want to move on that tangent)

[Indierthanthou]

Hell, they even thought Mozart was wild and that Beethoven's stuff was too experimental.

My favorite is the riot in Paris during the first performance of Stravinsky's Rite of Spring.

[MatthewF]

Say what you want about rap, but Aesop Rock, Latyrx (and anyone from Solesides/Quannum really), Slug, Sage Francis, cLOUDDEAD, and Astronautilus are absolutely fucking brilliant. Coincidentally, they're very non-traditional, and most of them tend to inject melody into their lyrics quite a bit.

[SlyFrog]

The only tool I see in this thread is you - and Kanye West.

And just to be more substantive and less asshole - Great Hip-Hop/Rap Artists Who Get More Than 20 People At a Show and Actually Sell Plenty of Records:

DJ Shadow, Jay-Z, The Roots, RJD2, Mos Def, De La Soul, MF Doom/Madvillain, Common - I could go on and on.

So you were wrong, tried to dodge it, got called out again on it, and are now changing the subject rather than admit it.

I.e., you're a gutless tool.

[SlyFrog]

And Sly, I wasn't implying that you have a thing against black music, just that people have been saying that crap about any new music they didn't care for.
Hell, they even thought Mozart was wild and that Beethoven's stuff was too experimental.

Sorry, I figured the "them negroes and their rap shtick" was intended to say some such thing. Sorry if I got that wrong.

But again, I think you should be careful as to the assumptions you make. I've seen too many rap defenders assume that it is something about it being new, or edgy, or some such bullshit. That's a copout. You know nothing about me, how old I am, what I have experienced, etc. The fact that you would make that assumption shows more about your prejudices (and stereotyping) than it does anything else, I think.

I like some rap and hip-hop. I just think that it takes less talent to do than actually sing on key while also maintaining a rhythm. I think that is demonstrable through simple logic.

I also, for the reasons previously stated, have found most rappers (for indieboy's sake, that anyone most people might care about or have heard of) really don't have much talent, and are pretty much studio creations. Of course there are Ashley Simpsons on the pop side, about which you could say the same thing, I just think the ratio is greater in rap/hip-hop.

Now if you want to discuss that certain rappers are better at odd synopations, etc. than singers, that's fine, I'd entertain that, although most singers don't try to rap, so it is difficult to know the extent of their rhythmic ability.

Likewise, if you want to talk about lyrical ability, that is also fine, and some rappers may be wonderful at that. But that is less about music (which to me requires tone) than it is beat poetry. There is nothing wrong with that, it's just a different form of art.

[quatoria]

I don't even like most rappers these days (and the ones I like best are white, so I'm the one with the bias if you want to move on that tangent)

Anticon?

[Indierthanthou]

So you were wrong, tried to dodge it, got called out again on it, and are now changing the subject rather than admit it.

I.e., you're a gutless tool.

I tried to change the subject because I was tired of fighting with you - a troll who has been combative with every single person in this thread. I also changed the subject to prove you wrong and try to bring my posts back to the general thread.

(for indieboy's sake, that anyone most people might care about or have heard of

And by the way, I was not wrong about what you wrote - "average star" does not mean "mass market." You don't know jack squat about rap or hip-hop, but you obviously feel fine about shooting your mouth off about it (as your above post proves). If you don't know who DJ Shadow, Mos Def or anyone else I mentioned is, you don't know crap about rap/hip-hop.

[Bill Dungsroman]

And please, the next, "Hey, I go to these really cool underground clubs, and you should check out Indie Band X, because they're really good, and it's the mass market stuff that's terrible, blah blah blah and you really don't understand the industry, man," argument gets it in the neck. I, and the rest of the world, have no desire to go to your smelly record store and walk through the waft of weed smoke to pick out the "good ones." I understand rap and hip-hop. I just don't care about some subteranean culture that 99.9999% of the world doesn't care about either. Making arguments that this .0001% group is "real" and if you don't understand that, you don't understand rap, is like saying if you don't understand some scene of hack artists in Soho, you just don't understand poetry.
Swap out "rap" and put in any musical genre or subgenre you want, and your points stands. Which means, it doesn't.

[SlyFrog]

Swap out "rap" and put in any musical genre or subgenre you want, and your points stands. Which means, it doesn't.

You are wrong.

[Bill Dungsroman]

And please, the next, "Hey, I go to these really cool underground clubs, and you should check out Indie Band X, because they're really good, and it's the mass market stuff that's terrible, blah blah blah and you really don't understand the industry, man," argument gets it in the neck. I, and the rest of the world, have no desire to go to your smelly record store and walk through the waft of weed smoke to pick out the "good ones." I understand rock and metal. I just don't care about some subteranean culture that 99.9999% of the world doesn't care about either. Making arguments that this .0001% group is "real" and if you don't understand that, you don't understand rock, is like saying if you don't understand some scene of hack artists in Soho, you just don't understand poetry.

[Erlend Grefsrud]

Listen to cLOUDDEAD, Sage Francis, Odd Nosdam, Cannibal Ox, El-P, Aesop Rock and Themselves. If you can't see any kind of merit in those acts, then fine. You don't like hip-hop and you can't be brought to appreciate it.

However, even if you did the proper research and tried to familiarize yourself with the genre, your generalizations are still terrible. It's like listening to Placebo, My Chemical Romance, AFI and Green Day, and claim to "understand" and "know" rock. Or like listening to DJ fucking Tiestö and claiming that electronica is shit.

Blah. This discussion is pointless. You don't like hip-hop. Fine. I fucking loathe Joe Satriani, Steve Vai, John Petrucci, Yngwie Malmsteen and the dude from Iron Maiden. I don't claim all rock is like that and roll my eyes at the unfortunates who find it interesting.

[SlyFrog]

Listen to cLOUDDEAD, Sage Francis, Odd Nosdam, Cannibal Ox, El-P, Aesop Rock and Themselves. If you can't see any kind of merit in those acts, then fine. You don't like hip-hop and you can't be brought to appreciate it.

However, even if you did the proper research and tried to familiarize yourself with the genre, your generalizations are still terrible. It's like listening to Placebo, My Chemical Romance, AFI and Green Day, and claim to "understand" and "know" rock. Or like listening to DJ fucking Tiestö and claiming that electronica is shit.

Blah. This discussion is pointless. You don't like hip-hop. Fine. I fucking loathe Joe Satriani, Steve Vai, John Petrucci, Yngwie Malmsteen and the dude from Iron Maiden. I don't claim all rock is like that and roll my eyes at the unfortunates who find it interesting.

If you had actually read what I wrote, instead of making an assumption because you've had this argument before, you'd realize you just made up a strawman to argue against.

[SlyFrog]

And please, the next, "Hey, I go to these really cool underground clubs, and you should check out Indie Band X, because they're really good, and it's the mass market stuff that's terrible, blah blah blah and you really don't understand the industry, man," argument gets it in the neck. I, and the rest of the world, have no desire to go to your smelly record store and walk through the waft of weed smoke to pick out the "good ones." I understand rock and metal. I just don't care about some subteranean culture that 99.9999% of the world doesn't care about either. Making arguments that this .0001% group is "real" and if you don't understand that, you don't understand rock, is like saying if you don't understand some scene of hack artists in Soho, you just don't understand poetry.

Yeah? So what? The point is, I'm tired of arguments that attempt to evade the issue by immediately moving to the, "You haven't listen to this bizarre shit that no one else listens to either, but is real man. Because you haven't heard Dung Brothers X live at Columbus, Ohio, you can't possibly talk about the subject. Because they're good."

That's great. I'm willing to admit that .0001% of a genre, that no one cares about, might be fascinatingly good. I'm just no longer willing to play the, "Let me list my favorite artists, and if you (and the rest of America) have never heard of them, it's proof you don't understaaaaand man!"

[Sebmolo]

Dude, it's a fact. Everyone knows it. How can you even dispute it?

[Erlend Grefsrud]

If you had actually read what I wrote, instead of making an assumption because you've had this argument before, you'd realize you just made up a strawman to argue against.
I'm not allowed to state my opinion because you decided the argument was over?

[Theodore Rex DX]

I wonder, am I music racist qt3? I pretty much don't like any music made by black people apart from Screaming Jay Hawkins - and my favourite song by him is 'Hong Kong', which itself is pretty racist against the Hong Kongese. And Michael Jackson, but I consider him an honourary alien. And 'Machine Gun' by the Commodores. And some Chuck Berry/Hendrix. I'm not sure what Prince is, so I'll leave him out of it and I don't think my friends have convinced me that I like Sun Ra or other Jazz stuff. Oh, there's also this awesome song by Junkyard Dog on this old Wrestling Album called 'Grab Them Cakes'. And Grace Jones is kinda cool - some of it, plus the stuff everybody liked before it was played-out like Outkast and Gnarl Barkley. Actually, when I got to the end of this post I realised I wasn't as bad as I thought, but I'm still pretty bad. Pretty bad with female artists too. I'm also very sex racist - are these things related I wonder? Hopefully this will derail the thread off the other side of the track from the side SlyFrog derailed it. I really fucking hate that guy.

[SlyFrog]

I'm not allowed to state my opinion because you decided the argument was over?

Huh? No, I'm saying you're making up a bunch of shit that I didn't say, so you'll have something to argue against. Because people like rehashing the same arguments over and over. They feel comfortable arguing against a party line that they're used to. Those are the arguments they have ready, and by god, they'll use them, even if the person they're arguing against said nothing of the sort.

Here, let me do to you what you just tried to do to me.

Why do you think Country and Western music sucks. Just because it is an older form of art does mean that everyone who listens to it is a hick. Maybe you just don't understand the music, but that doesn't mean it sucks. I don't see why you are attacking everyone who likes it.

[SlyFrog]

I really fucking hate that guy.

You seem to hate a lot of people. Of course, a lot of people seem to hate you, which is pretty much what you're looking for. So I guess it's even.

Please, let the swearing and frothing commence.

[Theodore Rex DX]

Actually, I don't hate that many people. There are, like, six people on the board I hate. Not that many. I honestly can't figure out why you do what you do, do, do to me though. If you're a troll, and I don't think you are except when it suits you to lie to yourself in retrospect as a kind of defensive mechanism to distance yourself from your more egregious idiocy, you are a damn good one. I was wondering what you thought.

[SlyFrog]

Actually, I don't hate that many people. There are, like, six people on the board I hate. Not that many. I honestly can't figure out why you do what you do, do, do to me though. If you're a troll, and I don't think you are except when it suits you to lie to yourself in retrospect as a kind of defensive mechanism to distance yourself from your more egregious idiocy, you are a damn good one. I was wondering what you thought.

I don't know. I'm always amazed at how such bright, intelligent people are always so absolutely convinced that they have the market corned on being right, such that they just know when someone else is absolutely stupid.

I'm convinced that at least half of it is that people don't actually want to read and understand. They come to the internet to battle archetypes, and by god, they'll find exactly the argument they're looking for, whether it is there or not.

Of course, it is the internet, and the typical user thereof. Which means smugly sitting back and knowing the other guy is an idiot, and conclusively saying that, is generally enough to get most people's rocks off.

[Theodore Rex DX]

But anyway, that's the least interesting part of my music racism post. We could keep up that in PMs. I noticed that a lot of the black music I like is by what you could describe as novelty acts: oddities and freaks, or that it's designed specificaly to entertain white people. I am starting to wonder about me.

[Theodore Rex DX]

I don't know. I'm always amazed at how such bright, intelligent people are always so absolutely convinced that they have the market corned on being right, such that they just know when someone else is absolutely stupid.

Of course, it is the internet, and the typical user thereof. Which means smugly sitting back and knowing the other guy is an idiot, and conclusively saying that, is generally enough to get most people's rocks off.

You know, ad hominem attacks aren't the best way of oozing out of that type of situation. If you have a decent argument - and I don't think you do, but I can see a couple good ways to drag your feet and confuse the outcome - make it.

[Bill Dungsroman]

Actually, I don't hate that many people. There are, like, six people on the board I hate. Not that many. I honestly can't figure out why you do what you do, do, do to me though. If you're a troll, and I don't think you are except when it suits you to lie to yourself in retrospect as a kind of defensive mechanism to distance yourself from your more egregious idiocy, you are a damn good one. I was wondering what you thought.
I hope it's not me, Theo ;_; I'm like totally president of your fan club.

[Theodore Rex DX]

No, I don't hate you Bill - that would be too obvious. I mean, there is stuff that I don't like about you, but probably as much or more I don't like about me so I wouldn't worry about it. The people I hate I tend to seethe over and not confront directly because it's not really worth it.

[SlyFrog]

You know, ad hominem attacks aren't the best way of oozing out of that type of situation. If you have a decent argument - and I don't think you do, but I can see a couple good ways to drag your feet and confuse the outcome - make it.

Also, add throwing out hastily learned rules of logic from college that are deemed applicable to all situations, without fully understanding them or knowing whether they actually apply.

[Unicorn McGriddle]

I'm always amazed at how such bright, intelligent people are always so absolutely convinced that they have the market corned on being right, such that they just know when someone else is absolutely stupid.

Let me translate: you're amazed that bright, intelligent people think you're stupid. This is because you have not yet realized that you ARE stupid.

[Factory]

That's great. I'm willing to admit that .0001% of a genre, that no one cares about, might be fascinatingly good. I'm just no longer willing to play the, "Let me list my favorite artists, and if you (and the rest of America) have never heard of them, it's proof you don't understaaaaand man!"
Well if one only knows about about mainstream stuff then you can only authoritatively comment on mainstream stuff. Your first post clearly indicated that you have no knowledge outside of mainstream rap but still you made assertions about all of rap, not just the mainstream.

You are basically being a Jack Thomson* about rap.

* +100 pts, nerd reference.

[Theodore Rex DX]

Also, add throwing out hastily learned rules of logic from college that are deemed applicable to all situations, without fully understanding them or knowing whether they actually apply.

Another ad hominem attack. Your delusions are awesome internet comedy, Frog.

[Qenan]

Claiming dislike of rap is racist is lame. I dislike country "music" even more, and most of its practitioners are white.

Sure, there are a few good rap songs. Even an artistically weak genre will produce some good works.

[SlyFrog]

Well if one only knows about about mainstream stuff then you can only authoritatively comment on mainstream stuff. Your first post clearly indicated that you have no knowledge outside of mainstream rap but still you made assertions about all of rap, not just the mainstream.

Yes, I am commenting on mainstream stuff. I don't particularly recall suggesting that I have listened to all rap music ever created. In fact, I'm fairly comfortable that I was very specific that I have not, and that I don't care to.

However, I will not in the future feel the need to disclaim that I have not experienced every possibility in a particular genre or field prior to stating that I dislike the particular genre or field. As that is idiocy, and is only suggested as a weak rhetorical device when losing an argument.

Of course, Factory, in the future, if you are willing, whenever you comment on something, say for example, first person shooters, politics, religion, or similar items, to preface every comment with, "While I realize that I have not tried every first person shooter game in existence, I have tried 50, and I do not think I like the genre, though it is possible that there are good first person shooters that are in existence that do not suck," I will do the same. No, wait, I'll throw up and tell you to knock it off.

[SlyFrog]

Another ad hominem attack. Your delusions are awesome internet comedy, Frog.

The ironing.

[SlyFrog]

Claiming dislike of rap is racist is lame. I dislike country "music" even more, and most of its practitioners are white.

Sure, there are a few good rap songs. Even an artistically weak genre will produce some good works.

That's right. Just like there are a few good conservatives. And every time people around here bash conservatives, they preface their comments that they have not met every conservative on the planet, and there may be some good ones, and because they have not met every conservative, they don't really understand the conservative position, but those that they have met they disagree with.

[SlyFrog]

Let me translate: you're amazed that bright, intelligent people think you're stupid. This is because you have not yet realized that you ARE stupid.

The paradigm.

[Theodore Rex DX]

Here's a summary of the thread so far:

Qenan: Rap sucks.
Joel/John Merva: Retarded politicisation of the thread.
Joel, stepping outside that for a second: Saying rap sucks sucks. You shouldn't write off an entire genre like that.
SlyFrog: Most rappers suck (without qualification). Bigger suck-not suck ratio across the rap genre than in modern pop music.
Indier Than Thou: Sure, if you go by what's on the charts.
SlyFrog: Claims, laughably, that he was talking about popular rap when it is impossible to extract that from his posts - it's especially great when you read the quotes he is responding to for context. You can see where he trips up over himself and it is now totally transparent how full of shit he is. Then tries to deconstruct the act of rapping and the act of singing in a retarded, irrelevent and unhelpful way. The thread continues and he just gets dumber and dumber, becomes abusive, has a total personality meltdown, sinks to what is possibly a new low. What a pathetic maggot.

[SlyFrog]

Here's a summary of the thread so far:

Theodore: Summarizes what has happened in his fantasy world, because real world not to Theodore Rex's liking. Begins with conclusory, "Hey, this guy is stupid," statement, due to inability to actually show this through evidence and analytical ability. Uses "Hey, you said something else, but now you are backsliding," argument he learned in Freshman year English class for 8,129th time, believing it an argument winner for all situations, regardless of what was originally said or whether backsliding actually occurred.

[Euri]

Hey guys lets argue over my personal preferences now, because logic totally belongs in that area.

I hate cauliflower. All of it. All the time. Everywhere.

[RichVR]

There are types of music that I don't like in general. But I have found songs from them that I like. There are types of music that I like in general, and there are songs in that type that I don't like. There can be a lot of crossover. Why beat each other up over music tastes to make a point?

It is starting to sound like a religious or political debate.

An example of mixed styles, Red Hot Chili Peppers. I found a nice combination there. I don't hate the artists. I'm just not interested in what I'm not interested in. You listen to what you like. Why hate what you don't like?

[Theodore Rex DX]

Theodore: Summarizes what has happened in his fantasy world, because real world not to Theodore Rex's liking. Begins with conclusory, "Hey, this guy is stupid," statement, due to inability to actually show this through evidence and analytical ability. Uses "Hey, you said something else, but now you are backsliding," argument he learned in Freshman year English class for 8,129th time, believing it an argument winner for all situations, regardless of what was originally said or whether backsliding actually occurred.

I could quote all of it, you stupid cunt, but I don't have to - it's all right there. Everybody, by clicking a click, can read about you making an ass of yourself. Everybody but you knows what a piece of shit you are. I'm just making a helpful condensed summary without all the other discussion. If you want, I can quote it all. I'll even bold the important bits. I honestly thought you'd have crawled out of the thread by now, but it seems you really don't know how retarded you are. Awesome.

[RichVR]

Calm down Teddy. it's all good...

[SlyFrog]

I could quote all of it, you stupid cunt, but I don't have to - it's all right there. . . . . I'll even bold the important bits.

Why don't you go ahead and do that. Show us all.

Nothing out of context though, or I'll just correct it. Go ahead, let fly. Let's see where I stated that all rap is crap.

[Factory]

However, I will not in the future feel the need to disclaim that I have not experienced every possibility in a particular genre or field prior to stating that I dislike the particular genre or field.
Erm, you don't need complete knowledge of rap to make a credible argument, but you do need to have enough to convince the reader that you are not just speaking out of ignorance. From your comments it seems you have little knowledge indeed of hip-hop, ergo, this is why you mischaracterize it so.

[Theodore Rex DX]

Why don't you go ahead and do that. Show us all.

Nothing out of context though, or I'll just correct it. Go ahead, let fly. Let's see where I stated that all rap is crap.

Okay, shithead - I will. After I get back from my job. And when I do, I will ask you to do the courtesy of quoting where I said you stated that "all rap is crap". You just dig yourself deeper, don't you, maggot?

[SlyFrog]

Okay, shithead - I will. After I get back from my job. And when I do, I will ask you to do the courtesy of quoting where I said you stated that "all rap is crap". You just dig yourself deeper, don't you, maggot?

I didn't quote that. But if that isn't what you're suggesting, then I don't know what the hell you're talking about. That I said most rap stars are overrated hacks? Yeah, I did. I'll stand behind that.

So please, if your little quotathon is going to suggest that I, gasp, suggested most rap stars don't have much talent, then save yourself the trouble. I want to learn about the horrible things I said, not the true and obvious ones.

[Aeroplane]

I was skeptical at first, but now I'm convinced. Kanye West is a twat.

[Gunmetal]

Rap, on the other hand, consists of a bunch of people shuffling about, talking over each others lines (and then each backing off at the same time when they realized their "Yeeeah" accidentally cut off someone else's intro), off rhythm.

Sorry, that sounds like a pretty blanket statement about rap to me.

[MatthewF]

Faith Hill doesn't like losing either:
http://www.videosift.com/story.php?id=20009

[SlyFrog]

Faith Hill doesn't like losing either:
http://www.videosift.com/story.php?id=20009

Of course, she's a tool. The entire genre of country music consists of a bunch of hacks who can't sing, write songs, or do much else other than croon about their husbands leaving them for the local floozy.

[Unicorn McGriddle]

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/3876/pafrogsr2.gif

[Glenn]

Of course, she's a tool. The entire genre of country music consists of a bunch of hacks who can't sing, write songs, or do much else other than croon about their husbands leaving them for the local floozy.This one comment almost redeems you completely.