WoWie zowie... owie - leveling on a mature PvP server

[Jakub]

So with the new BC beta, I'm finally playing relatively significant amounts of WoW since the launch of the game. My old friends are on a PvP transfer server. This ostensibly means that people from overpopulated PvP servers came here. What it really means is that everyone except me has a level 60 character, and a bunch of twinked-out twinkie twinks. Did I mention that the equipment of a character 5 levels lower than me is usually better than mine?

The problem, of course, is that I can't level safely. In fact, now that I've hit level 30 and tried this "Jame's Alliance Leveling Guide", I've realize Jame is indeed as "special" as the spelling of his name indicates him to be. Thousand Needles, on my server at least, is extremely boring and eerily empty aside from that group of Horde camping the Wyverns, or camping the Harpies - the two points where I'm allegedly supposed to grind/quest away.

After my Thousand Needles experience, I asked around and found out that the next destination, Stranglethorn Vale, is yet another gankfest.

So my question is:

How do I level up on a mature PvP server without going to the graveyard five times per hour?

[triggercut]

Listen to more Pavement records while leveling, natch.

[Gary Whitta]

Welcome to PvP. Life sucks, wear a helm. Or reroll PvE.

[Vincent_GC]

couple ways.

1. Get a leveling friend, preferably a healer if your not one yourself. Having two people typicly discourages gankers (if they are within the same level range of you).

2. Stay out of STV

3. Avoid roads while traveling if possible.

4. Stay out of STV

5. Pick areas that are more favored to your respective side yet rarely traveled.

6. Stay out of STV

7. Play in the off hours for your server, typicly early morning hours.

8. For the love of God, stay out of STV

Now, to be honest, as you level up past the 30's and get higher, you will find less and less ganking. This is due to people on average have a solid grasp of thier toon by then and can give a good fight back. Your average ganker doesn't like fair fights.

[Backov]

Also, buy gold and twink your lowbies.

[Gary Whitta]

1. Get a leveling friend, preferably a healer if your not one yourself. Having two people typicly discourages gankers (if they are within the same level range of you).
This is really the best advice, though I'd tweak it to say have a lvl60 friend escort you whenever possible. When my gf was levelling I escorted her through the nightmare areas like STV and you are MUCH MUCH MUCH less likely to get engaged when you have a lvl60 escort.

[Jakub]

Oddly enough, it is now that I hit 30 that I'm being hit a lot more. Duskwood and Thousand Needles, to be specific. Thousand Needles I understand to have been my mistake, but Duskwood is more or less Alliance territory. However, a certain Horde guild likes to come in and attack it - camping the graveyards - every few days.

[Jakub]

This is really the best advice. When my gf was levelling I escorted her through the nightmare areas like STV and you are MUCH MUCH MUCH less likely to get engaged when you have a lvl60 escort.
I'll let you know when I trim down to a svelte 110lbs and grow the proper genitalia. :)

[Gary Whitta]

Oddly enough, it is now that I hit 30 that I'm being hit a lot more. Duskwood and Thousand Needles, to be specific. Thousand Needles I understand to have been my mistake, but Duskwood is more or less Alliance territory. However, a certain Horde guild likes to come in and attack it - camping the graveyards - every few days.
Hillsbrad is also a nightmare, at least on my server. I know this because I regularly roam around Tarren Mill when I'm bored looking for hapless low-level Horde scum to fuck in the ass.

[Vincent_GC]

ewwww

anyways, correct me if I am wrong, but having a lv 60 escort, while nice, serves two negatives.

1. your wasting the 60's time (unless they want to do this and got nothing else to do)

2. I may be wrong, but having a lv 60 partner reduces the XP gained by a signifigant amount (not something as simply as a 50-50 split, something like a 80/20 split)

And try other areas. Arathi Highlands or mountans for starters.

[Gary Whitta]

1. your wasting the 60's time (unless they want to do this and got nothing else to do)

2. I may be wrong, but having a lv 60 partner reduces the XP gained by a signifigant amount (not something as simply as a 50-50 split, something like a 80/20 split)
Yeah of course you're wasting the 60's time, but there are plenty of 60s out there with nothing better to do right now. Find a 60 friend. I'm happy to help power-level others on my realm. It all helps to fuck the Horde in the long term.

And the XP split is only an issue if you're in the same party together. Just don't group up. Pull a mob to tag it, then let the 60 one-shot it. You get all the XP.

[Vincent_GC]

I thought that it didn't matter.

I assisted my wife when she was 20 levels below me, let her tag and I killed it, and she got squat for XP.

Granted, this was about 3 months ago, and I only did this once, so my memory may be flawed.

when I get home from work tonite I'll give it a whirl

[Gordon Cameron]

Hillsbrad is also a nightmare, at least on my server. I know this because I regularly roam around Tarren Mill when I'm bored looking for hapless low-level Horde scum to fuck in the ass.

Hillsbrad was the worst for me. I couldn't get anything done there, when I was a hapless low-level Horde scum. Stop fucking me in the ass, Whitta!

I probably didn't have it quite as bad because Akama is a relatively new and relatively low pop server. Also I often play in the wee hours when nobody is on.

[Athryn]

This is really a huge problem with any mature server. Because everyone is already 60, it's hard to get groups because they get their friends to run them through instances and such. There's a ton of twinking and such going on, and I'm not even going to go into the PvP aspect .... STV, Hillsbrad, Badlands, all are places that should be avoided unless you like to get ganked.


But yeah, being on a PvP server is supposed to be all about the "excitement that someone might attack you while you're xping" .... right? ;)

On a mature server it's just a gankfest unless you're 60. And then at 60, you're the one doing the ganking.

[Gary Whitta]

So find a new server to roll on. If you're rolling on a mature server, it's because you've got friends there, right? High-level friends who will help you out?

[Vincent_GC]

Yeah of course you're wasting the 60's time, but there are plenty of 60s out there with nothing better to do right now. Find a 60 friend. I'm happy to help power-level others on my realm. It all helps to fuck the Horde in the long term.

And the XP split is only an issue if you're in the same party together. Just don't group up. Pull a mob to tag it, then let the 60 one-shot it. You get all the XP.

I just tried it out now that I am home.

The lowbie does not get full XP from this tagging method. He gets roughly half. The more damage he does, the more XP he gets. Loot however, is guarenteed.

I tried it with a lv 25 war and a 60 lock with lv 21 mobs. Grouped, war got 31~ish xp per mob. ungrouped and tag'd he got roughly 80-100 xp per mob. Solo was 200+

[Gordon Cameron]

Now, to be honest, as you level up past the 30's and get higher, you will find less and less ganking. This is due to people on average have a solid grasp of thier toon by then and can give a good fight back. Your average ganker doesn't like fair fights.

Unfortunately, I rolled a druid.

*badum ching*

At least I can stealth around.

[TheWombat]

STV is actually a great place for a druid. Fun PvP there. You have to accept that doing the quests there, especially the Nessingway ones, will take a long time and you'll need help. But stealthing around, ambushing the ambushers, getting into pickup PvP groups, all that can be fun and its a target-rich environment. Remember, they have to level there too.

[EvilIdler]

1. 30+? Go to Desolace. BIG zone. People hate it because of its size, but that
means you have all the time in the world to learn WHY people hate it.

2.As above, stay the fuck out of Stranglethorn.

3.Get the Bhaldie's Recommended Level addon, especially if you have Titan Panel.
It blends nicely in with it. The addon lists places you should go, including
instances, and tells what levels your current zone is meant for.

Alternatively, play on a PvE server, where Stranglethorn isn't so hellish.
But turn the bloody general chat off!

[Charlatan]

Couple of common-sense things:

- Keep LocalDefense and World Defense channels on so you can see where the action is (and so you can avoid it).
- Use Allakhazam or Thottbot (or that addon above, sounds great) to see what quests you can do in an area.
- When fighting, do so out of view of the roads.
- If you want to grind mobs, find a really out of the way place to do it. For instance: off the coast of Desolace and under the water are tons of Nagas (plus there's a few islands out there too if underwater breathing's not your thing). While these areas are used for a few quests, they're not used that much, so you could go kill stuff there for a day and not see anybody, if that's your idea of fun.
- Accept that every so often you'll be senselessly ganked by bored 60s. That's just life on a PvP server.
- Stay out of STV.

[Stroker Ace]

For me it was mostly solo questing before work that did it - not many gankers out at 6 am. During peak times I'd just PvP or maybe find an instance group.

[Skipper]

I'll second that advice on Desolace. Much easier to level there. The problem now is you're in a low point of content where most of your choices are considered "fun to camp" just to mess with the low level newbies. I also agree with the above poster, although you'll see more and more of the horde, from the 40's on up you'll get less ganking in an overpowering fight, but perhaps a lot more one on one of your level.

PvP servers are what they are. You love it or you hate it. Note that if the server is overpopulated by one side or another that has a huge effect as well.

[DeepT]

Hmm, now who was saying how leveling up on a PvP server isn't much harder then PvE server and therefore PvE -> PvP server transfers should be allowed?

[TheWombat]

In both WoW and EQII, leveling on a PvP server is harder than on a PvE server. No doubt about it. It's also, for me, much more satisfying as well. Frustrating? Sometimes, oh yeah. But you have to resign yourself to taking longer, and being less able to level solo. It helps to have a character class with some ganking potential, so you can turn the situation to your advantage. Be the hunter; there are always people lower than you to kill if you look for 'em. 1v1 on even terms is rare but can be found occasionally, but just get used to taking your kills where you can and taking your medicine when you have to.

Above all, don't sweat it. Roll alts, and switch when it gets too bothersome on your main. And find a good guild. Helps a LOT.

[Flowers]

Someone from the Horde must have written that guide, Stranglethorn Vale is a polygonal recreation of Beirut in the 1980's.

[Mark Asher]

There really is no trick to leveling on a PvP server short of grouping or just finding obscure spots and grinding mobs. Even then, you run the risk of someone spotting you and ganking you or of a high level finding your group and killing you.

Shimmering Flats is good at around 30-32 if I recall. Lots of quests there you can grab and do all at once -- kill scorpids, turtles, vultures, grab car parts, etc.

[Glycerine]

Someone from the Horde must have written that guide, Stranglethorn Vale is a polygonal recreation of Beirut in the 1980's.

Nah, I got the same treatment when attempting to quest/grind with my undead shadow priest out in STV, gank city.

Pretty much all the advice already mentioned is how I got to 60 on PvP without going insane or quitting in frustration. It was really bad sometimes, and other times I didn't have any problems at all. (Particularly in the morning, kiddies don't like getting up early.) The 30s and 40s are painful because you are still prime ganking material, once you get into your 50s it will slow down some. I have an undead warrior who is now in his low 50s on the same server and it's been much easier with him. I just park my priest in whatever zone he's questing in, then switch. When I get ganked I log, get the priest, and chase the fuckers down on his epic mount. :)

glyc

[Hery]

I found for Alliance in the 30's the best places were Desolace, Stonetalon Mountains(nobody quests there), and Arathi Highlands. When you hit the
40's it's much tougher because your choices are more limited, Tanaris, Feralas, Alterac Valley. All of those tend to be highly trafficced by both sides. You could also lvl by doing instances alot.

[Charlatan]

I found for Alliance in the 30's the best places were Desolace, Stonetalon Mountains(nobody quests there), and Arathi Highlands. When you hit the
40's it's much tougher because your choices are more limited, Tanaris, Feralas, Alterac Valley. All of those tend to be highly trafficced by both sides. You could also lvl by doing instances alot.

Actually for Alliance, Tarren Mill isn't horrible at 40. The Horde gets sent there at 30, but Alliance doesn't hit it until 40. That means you'll be higher leveled than most of the Horde players there (though there'll be 60s to be sure). Plus there are a number of quests you can do just south of town on the beach, which I'd think would be pretty safe from gankers.

[Mark Crump]

One other area in early 30s is the Racetrack in Shimmering Flats. I play on a PVE server, so I can't speak for gank-fests, but I'd rarely see another person there.

[Gordon Cameron]

The Horde gets sent there at 30, but Alliance doesn't hit it until 40.

Horde can start doing Tarren Mill quests in their low 20s, actually. Fresh out of Barrens or Silverpine. Which is why it is such a horrible, horrible place for them to be on a pvp server...

[Backov]

Hmm, now who was saying how leveling up on a PvP server isn't much harder then PvE server and therefore PvE -> PvP server transfers should be allowed?

Who cares if it's harder? It's this bullshit attitude that made the rules in the first place.

[Skipper]

Who cares if it's harder? It's this bullshit attitude that made the rules in the first place.

No joke. When the PvP servers dry up because everyone has transferred off of them we'll see what happens to said rules.

Besides, arguing loot is easier for them would be like them arguing honor is easier on a PvP server. It's a circular argument that doesn't make sense.

[greywind]

The best way to level is to find out-of-the-way spots and grind. I did the entire 40-50 grind south of Feathermoon Stronghold in Ferelas. It's right by our base, an impossible distance from theirs so they usually don't bother, and is filled with 40-45 Naga that repop fast and give good loot. North of there is a group of harpies which you can grind from 50-60 which is also under-represented by the horde.

If you do want to quest, advertise in the area general chat and get a group together. Larger groups are usually avoided by equal level opponents, and at least you have a group to commiserate with when you get ganked by a 60.

[Stroker Ace]

Who cares if it's harder? It's this bullshit attitude that made the rules in the first place.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here... perhaps you're coming out as a carebear?

[Gary Whitta]

One other area in early 30s is the Racetrack in Shimmering Flats. I play on a PVE server, so I can't speak for gank-fests, but I'd rarely see another person there.
Haha that is another place I love to fuck low-level horde. One-shotted with Rank 11 frostbolt then camped until they log FTW.

[Hery]

It seems to me more PVE end up migrating to PVP than the other way around. If never rolled a character on a PVE server personally, but talking to others that have, one advantage of PVP is that you can clear the opposition out of an Area you're trying to farm. He thought gaining rep with timbermaw was much easier in a PVP realm compared to PVE.

[Gary Whitta]

It seems to me more PVE end up migrating to PVP than the other way around. If never rolled a character on a PVE server personally, but talking to others that have, one advantage of PVP is that you can clear the opposition out of an Area you're trying to farm. He thought gaining rep with timbermaw was much easier in a PVP realm compared to PVE.
Agreed. Survival of the fittest. There's something just plain wrong about grinding in a zone alongside players from the opposite faction.

[Gordon Cameron]

There's something just plain wrong about grinding in a zone alongside players from the opposite faction.

Not if both players are more interested in accomplishing their PvE goals than in killing each other.

I know ganking people gives you great joy, Gary, but some of us are less enamored of it. This may amount to a role playing deficiency -- but who are we kidding? Anybody who invokes "role playing" in a game like WoW is doing so situationally at best.

On a pvp server, anything goes. ANYTHING. That includes sparing the lives of people on the other faction. If I want to justify that behavior to myself in some bullshit RP terms, I'll just say that I'm an "honorable" guy who doesn't fight unless attacked, or in the context of a formal battle (i.e. battlegrounds). Or, maybe I'm role playing a coward, if you like. Call my tauren druid a Falstaffian figure...

[Gary Whitta]

Hey that's totally fine. I don't agree with the way you choose to play, but I respect it. I only ask the same in return.

[Gordon Cameron]

Hey that's totally fine. I don't agree with the way you choose to play, but I respect it. I only ask the same in return.

I respect you, while being glad I rolled my pvp horde on a different server than yours. :P

Not that Akama doesn't have its share of gleeful gankers, of course.

[Stroker Ace]

I only invoke the right to kill alliance when it's situationally useful/entertaining. If I'm out farming in some big field and a relatively equally powered alliance shows up and farms in the other corner, I'll probably let him alone. I just want to farm my junk and get out. If I'm just passing through, 50/50 chance I'll gank him. If he's in a group of 3 60s, not only will I not attack but I won't ever turn my back to them.

Ganking can have fun consequences too - I oneshotted a 32 mage in STV the other day and then I was chain ganked and camped for 15 minutes by a Tier 2.5 rogue who /ruded me repeatedly. I deserved it, and I was excited when I finally snuck off. Made my stupid farming trip to Westfall a lot more memorable.

[Gordon Cameron]

Speaking of role playing a coward, I've found that passive-aggressive emotes can have their usefulness. In Silithus earlier today on my 58 druid I came across a 60 warlock. I just assume that any warlock will destroy me if he bothers to, so I did /beg, /cower and /cry emotes at him. He evidently didn't think I was much of a threat and he left me alone.

[Stroker Ace]

/kneel

[Cosmic Hippo]

...so I did /beg, /cower and /cry emotes at him. He evidently didn't think I was much of a threat and he left me alone.And then you STABBED HIM IN THE BACK?

[Backov]

I play primarily on a PVP server now (took a break for the Moonrunner stuff, got bored and went back to my Darkspear home)..

However, that said - I think the entire mindset behind the PVP/PVE divide is extremely juvenile, and even more frustrating is catered to by Blizzard. The very fact that they implemented a rule that says you can't transfer from PVE->PVP makes me shake my head in disbelief. It's like Blizzard is outright saying that PVE is "easy mode."

And if it is - WHO THE FUCK CARES? You know who? The no-life fuckers who think that getting High Warlord gets them respect among their peers.

[Gordon Cameron]

And then you STABBED HIM IN THE BACK?

No, but I tossed a moonfire on a mob he was fighting.

I'm *such* a carebear.

[Stroker Ace]

And if it is - WHO THE FUCK CARES? You know who? The no-life fuckers who think that getting High Warlord gets them respect among their peers.The people who took twice as long getting to 60 and had to fight through gank squads to get to MC/BWL/Ony/AQ for the same gear you got while half asleep. They care. PvE uberguilds transferring to a PvP server would wreck it. Of course, any uberguild transferring to a server that's 6 months old wrecks it now.

[Backov]

How would they wreck it exactly? You think these uberguilds would camp outside your instances 24/7 because they're that bored? Bullshit. They'd be raiding or running bgs just like they do on Darkspear.

[Stroker Ace]

Nah, but transfers kind of artificially diddle with economies and gear levels. I've got people in T3 transferring to my server all the time in hopes of joining one of our best guilds. I get stuck in queues thanks to them.

[Gordon Cameron]

Incidentally, I think world pvp would be improved if you could keep an "enemies list" of the opposite faction. I normally don't attack people while they are fighting/eating/low on health etc. -- unless they have done the same to me first. I'd like a list so I could hold a grudge properly. I guess I could just keep a pad and paper handy... "You're on my list, bub!" There could even be a /list emote. "You let Ganker know that he is on your list."

I do remember the name of one ally rogue who corpse camped me in Winterspring. Cogito. I'll get you, Cogito, some day...

[Stroker Ace]

you should get a pet named vidiviciveni and then camp him.

[Malathor]

The people who took twice as long getting to 60 and had to fight through gank squads to get to MC/BWL/Ony/AQ for the same gear you got while half asleep. They care. PvE uberguilds transferring to a PvP server would wreck it. Of course, any uberguild transferring to a server that's 6 months old wrecks it now.

It's interesting to note that there are actually far more "uberguilds" in terms of raid progression on the PvP servers than there are on the PvE servers.

[Stroker Ace]

I was under the impression that the PvE guilds got places quicker, or at least they used to. The PvP arms race does inspire raiding though. It's harder to get upset about falling behind when you're not getting stomped with the new shinies the other team got out of the new raid instance.

[Cosmic Hippo]

Incidentally, I think world pvp would be improved if you could keep an "enemies list" of the opposite faction. I normally don't attack people while they are fighting/eating/low on health etc. -- unless they have done the same to me first. I'd like a list so I could hold a grudge properly. I guess I could just keep a pad and paper handy... "You're on my list, bub!" There could even be a /list emote. "You let Ganker know that he is on your list."

I do remember the name of one ally rogue who corpse camped me in Winterspring. Cogito. I'll get you, Cogito, some day...That's actually a fantastic idea. Someone should write an add-on for that. Even cooler would be if it automatically notifies you when your blacklist people are nearby.

[TheWombat]

That's actually a fantastic idea. Someone should write an add-on for that. Even cooler would be if it automatically notifies you when your blacklist people are nearby.

There was at one point an add on that kept track of everyone you killed or who killed you, and would notify you (I think) when the person you targeted was on your list. Can't remember the mod, though, and it probably wouldn't work now. Book of the Dead I think it was called, maybe.

[JM]

Note to anyone complaining about getting ganked while grinding: The game has other people. Some of them are on your side. Use this to your advantage.

[Gordon Cameron]

That's actually a fantastic idea. Someone should write an add-on for that. Even cooler would be if it automatically notifies you when your blacklist people are nearby.

Another wrinkle I thought of would be if the names of people on the list would be a slightly different shade of red so you could tell at a glance.

[DeepT]

No joke. When the PvP servers dry up because everyone has transferred off of them we'll see what happens to said rules.

I do not think that is ever going to happen. PvP servers are the most densely populated servers and generally get more 'splits' the any other type of server.

When people transfer off a PvP server for PvP reasons, it is generally pre-60. I do not know a single person who made it to 60 on a PvP server and then decided that PvP servers suck and transferred to a PvE server.

This not to be confused with people who have level 60s on a PvP server who transfer to PvE servers to escape the insane login ques associated with PvP servers. I know plenty of people who transferred to a PvE servers with 60s because this was the only option given to them at the time.

[mouselock]

And then you STABBED HIM IN THE BACK?

Yeah, but he's a druid so it only hit for about 300 damage. ;)

[Stroker Ace]

On my PvP druid I found that pounce was a more useful opener than ravage in PvP... most people behave stupidly when they get surprise stunned, like Mages burning their Blink to escape a 2s stun and then allowing me to charge/bash/slapslapslap. I had weak gear too so tactics won for me more than brute strength.

[Hery]

How would they wreck it exactly? You think these uberguilds would camp outside your instances 24/7 because they're that bored? Bullshit. They'd be raiding or running bgs just like they do on Darkspear.

Then why do they want to transfer to a PVP Realm? Personally I would be alright with PVE->PVP transfers as long as the PVE transfer people were distinguishable from everyone else for 3 months. Maybe a little teddybear symbol where the skull usually goes.

[greywind]

That's actually a fantastic idea. Someone should write an add-on for that. Even cooler would be if it automatically notifies you when your blacklist people are nearby.
It's called Opium and it still works. It tracks names by guild, number of deaths, number of kills, etc. so you can keep track of who the worst offenders are. When somone is on your Kill On Sight list, when you mouse over them KOS pops up in big letters with the reason you added them (and you can use bad words if you like!)

http://www.curse-gaming.com/en/wow/addons-400-1-opium.html

ian

[Athryn]

When people transfer off a PvP server for PvP reasons, it is generally pre-60. I do not know a single person who made it to 60 on a PvP server and then decided that PvP servers suck and transferred to a PvE server.




Myself. I got characters to 60 and 55 on a PvP server, that I rolled on opening day, and decided that PvP servers suck. I rerolled on a PvE server, and then transferred my characters to a Pve server when it was available.

I know of at least 2 others that have done the same thing.

[Vincent_GC]

Does it really bother people to allow PVE -> PVP transfers? I can't see that it's anything game breaking or unfair.

I do think it's a bit unfair for me to leave my lock on a PVE server and have it remain by itself when I could have it transfered to the PVP server with the rest of my 60's and my guild.

[ciparis]

How would they wreck it exactly?
By entering into PvP with those who aren't nearly as well-geared despite putting in the same effort. Gear is terrifically important in this game, and a lack of balance in gear in PvP decides too many fights already without making it even more unfair by letting people who obtain it by different rules steamroll the natives.

[Charlatan]

Ciparis, what makes you (or anyone for that matter) think that if Blizzard allowed PvE->PvP transfers that a large number of well-geared people would take it? I mean, people picked PvE because... surprise! they like the PvE content! They actually want to go on raids and try the encounters to get the bling at the end of the rainbow.

Why would people like that all of a sudden decide "eh, this PvE thing is overrated, I'm gonna go transfer to PvP and spend all my time killing people instead of Nef."

Someone would do this out of boredom? Because they've beaten everything? I don't buy it.

I can see PvP->PvE transfers (you want to get away from the ganking!) but not the other way around. It does not compute.

[Skipper]

By entering into PvP with those who aren't nearly as well-geared despite putting in the same effort. Gear is terrifically important in this game, and a lack of balance in gear in PvP decides too many fights already without making it even more unfair by letting people who obtain it by different rules steamroll the natives.

While in theory you're right. I'll explain how high level raiding works on a PvE server. Tell me if it rings a bell.

1) Normal carebear folks show up at raid time and head into said instance. These players make up approx 25-40% of raid.
2) Latecomers show up, start requesting summons. This happens very slowly.
3) PvP'rs who are still in BG's get "encouraged" by raid leader to get their ass in gear and get to instance.
4) PvP'rs get summoned. Lock gets flagged. PvP'rs and lock get owned outside since every other guild and his brother are also waiting outside or near raid zones.
5) Raid Leader starts bitching, tells rest of raid to "zone out and help them. How many times do I have to tell you not to get ganked on the way to raids. Don't come to raids flagged!" Comments ensue about "but BG's always flag us, you asked us to come now!"
6) 3/4 of raid, now flagged finishes off competition, rez's and zones back in.
7) Raid not full. Raid leader ask's for those who didn't sign up (usually in BG's) if they will help. More than likely, go back to step 3 and repeat at least once.

Also, a small reminder. When you actually get your loot, you know, those purples we're talking about here, are you saying that 95% of it is coming from contested zones? Because they are instanced. PvP servers definately mean longer/harder to level, but do not necessarily mean harder to get loot.

[Supertanker]

4) PvP'rs get summoned.

We set up a rule that you don't get buffed if you are flagged, and we don't summon to the instance. It helps that we usually have a line of people waiting for spots, so it didn't take long for people to learn that staying in BG at invite time was a good way to miss the raid.

[TheTrunkDr]

Ciparis, what makes you (or anyone for that matter) think that if Blizzard allowed PvE->PvP transfers that a large number of well-geared people would take it? I mean, people picked PvE because... surprise! they like the PvE content! They actually want to go on raids and try the encounters to get the bling at the end of the rainbow.

Why would people like that all of a sudden decide "eh, this PvE thing is overrated, I'm gonna go transfer to PvP and spend all my time killing people instead of Nef."

Someone would do this out of boredom? Because they've beaten everything? I don't buy it.

I can see PvP->PvE transfers (you want to get away from the ganking!) but not the other way around. It does not compute.
Your initial assumption isn't necessarily true. Many people choose PvE servers because they don't/didn't want to deal with gankers and such while leveling. Now that they're 60 and geared it's less of a concern. I'm sure there are also plenty of people who get bored of a PvE server want to transfer and would transfer to a PvP for a change if they could.

I don't think it's that big a deal to allow PvE->PvP. Part of the reason might be population. Making it one way means that, slowly, people will filter off the crowded PvP servers and even out the load a little.

[Euri]

Your initial assumption isn't necessarily true. Many people choose PvE servers because they don't/didn't want to deal with gankers and such while leveling. Now that they're 60 and geared it's less of a concern. I'm sure there are also plenty of people who get bored of a PvE server want to transfer and would transfer to a PvP for a change if they could.

I don't think it's that big a deal to allow PvE->PvP. Part of the reason might be population. Making it one way means that, slowly, people will filter off the crowded PvP servers and even out the load a little.

The only reason is that if they allowed it, the whining would be nonstop. That's it, really.

PVP servers are not generally more populous than PVE servers, and simply barring transfers too overpopulated servers regardless of skillset does what you are thinking of.