Okami: A Work of Art

[Mudfrost]

You no longer have to question whether gaming is a true form of art. If this game doesn't sway the nay-sayers, I don't know what will.

I bought Okami today and I'm just amazed. I read the early, rave reviews but I still went into this with some hesitancy. Comparisons to Zelda, etc... I've heard it before and I only hoped Okami could be so good.

The reviews are right. This game is beautiful in every sense. I'm only an hour or so into it but it's already apparent that this game has gone beyond what we've seen previously in the gaming world, and really does offer something new and unique. It's Matisse with an Asian flair. It's bold like Van Gogh. And it's a great game.

In thirty years of gaming, I've never seen a game like this. Visually, I'm entranced, but the gameplay has me absolutely captivated. What could be better?

When I think of games as art, I think of Myst, Zelda, ICO, and a handful of others. Okami might trump them all.


Edit to add: Link to Okami reviews (http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/ps2/okami?q=okami)

[Tom McNamara]

Then maybe we should frame it and put it in a museum.

Edit: ;)

[Gary Whitta]

I told myself I was done with last-gen games but I might have to pick this up.

[Hawkeye Fierce]

I told myself I was done with last-gen games but I might have to pick this up.

Ditto. I was thinking of just renting it, but more and more it sounds like a keeper.

[DeathMonkey]

I told myself I was done with last-gen games but I might have to pick this up.

I don't understand; why would you be "done" with last gen games? From my experience, many of the best gaming experiences come from games that are released after the "next gen" has started.

-Scott-

[unbongwah]

I don't understand; why would you be "done" with last gen games?
Because some people, claims to the contrary, are eye-candy whores...

[Gary Whitta]

Nevertheless. Has anyone here actually played it yet?

[Jim Preston]

I picked up Okami at lunch. I went into one of the conference rooms where we have a PS2 dev hooked up to a projector so we can see the game in 8' x 6' glory. I slipped in the disc, a lot of excited people filed in, and I closed the disc tray. 15 minutes later I was sitting alone in the room because everyone else had left in disgust. Not because it was a bad game, but because you have to button through 15 minutes of one sentence descriptions of plot and dialog with no way to speed up or skip the process. I was able to save a few seconds after the game started, and according to the save file I had spent 17 minutes and 29 seconds simply buttoning through dialog boxes.

This isn't really a knock on the game per se, as many games have long involved backstories, and the people impatiently standing around just wanted to see the art style and get back to their desks. But anyone who picks this up should be prepared for what seems to be a fairly text-heavy experience.

Oh, and as for the thread title, I'm sending this one with love to Monsieur Chick: video games have been an artform long before Okami.

[Gordon Cameron]

Because some people, claims to the contrary, are eye-candy whores...

Personally, I'm quite willing to admit I'm an eye-candy whore and always have been; although what's interesting is that some of the best eye candy I have ever seen was in Shadow of the Colossus, on what was already dated hardware when the game came out. Amazing what good art design can accomplish.

[Gary Whitta]

Hmm, that sure is a lot of text...

[jim crawford]

I was able to save a few seconds after the game started, and according to the save file I had spent 17 minutes and 29 seconds simply buttoning through dialog boxes.

This isn't really a knock on the game per se,
Not technically, but I have never played a game in which the writing was good enough to justify so much non-interactive text before the game even starts.

[KaoFloppy]

Don't talk to me about text! Stupid planescape mumble mumble. At least I'm out of the mortuary, finally.

[Mudfrost]

I picked up Okami at lunch. I went into one of the conference rooms where we have a PS2 dev hooked up to a projector so we can see the game in 8' x 6' glory. I slipped in the disc, a lot of excited people filed in, and I closed the disc tray. 15 minutes later I was sitting alone in the room because everyone else had left in disgust. Not because it was a bad game, but because you have to button through 15 minutes of one sentence descriptions of plot and dialog with no way to speed up or skip the process. I was able to save a few seconds after the game started, and according to the save file I had spent 17 minutes and 29 seconds simply buttoning through dialog boxes.



Yeah, I was a little irritated by the long intro, but once I got into the game, I was forgiving.

[Mudfrost]

Don't talk to me about text! Stupid planescape mumble mumble. At least I'm out of the mortuary, finally.

Heh... I remember that... ;)

[Kunikos]

Oh, and as for the thread title, I'm sending this one with love to Monsieur Chick: video games have been an artform long before Okami.

Of course... the process of making games involves other art disciplines, as well as the fact that simply engineering the game itself doesn't make it "good." The simplest analogy is that you can structurally create any type of poem you want, but if there is no inspirational feeling then it will read as "boring" or "flat" to others who cannot relate in any way (and there are wonderful Star Trek TNG references to this type of thing in several episodes featuring Data). The experience by others is what brings value to the product, like any piece of art.


Don't talk to me about text! Stupid planescape mumble mumble. At least I'm out of the mortuary, finally.

Heh. If you thought that was a lot, wait until you get to the Burning Corpse tavern and talk to the planeswalker...

[EvilIdler]

Kingdom Hearts II was a trying experience. I haven't really touched it since
attempting to 'play' it once a while ago. That's one game where a save
function should be available during the cut scenes :(

I think I can stomach Okami, and if no Euro release this or next week,
it's import time again. I have two stores nearby that have been good at
picking up imports.

[Jab]

I've been playing it for the last hour or so. So far I'm enjoying it. The graphics are really great, and the game isn't too bad with the loading screens. The first 30 minutes is a bit slow with all the text, so far the only problem that I have is with the brush not picking up on the drawings. I've made a few circles that the game didn't pick up, and a few straight lines that it thought was something else. Which is abit annoying when enemies need to be hit by the right brush stroke for damage.

[Mudfrost]

I've made a few circles that the game didn't pick up, and a few straight lines that it thought was something else. Which is abit annoying when enemies need to be hit by the right brush stroke for damage.

If you hold down the "X" button while drawing a line, it will remain straight.

[Jab]

If you hold down the "X" button while drawing a line, it will remain straight.

That could help, thanks. Does anyone know the point of using the triangle button for pressure drawing?

[Luke M]

Okami is great so far, but I'm having trouble adjusting to the controls. I'm at a loss for why Amaterasu controls like a really touchy tank 95% of the time. I should be able to point the left stick in the direction I want her to move; that means heading toward the camera when I move the stick down instead of causing Amaterasu to run extremely tight circles while the camera wigs out. And turning is so sensitive, too. This early Resident Evil style control scheme makes close-quarters movement more difficult than it should be. Camera relative control (Mario 64) is the standard for these 3rd person console affairs, and for a good reason. What was gained by ignoring it?

[Mudfrost]

Okami is great so far, but I'm having trouble adjusting to the controls. I'm at a loss for why Amaterasu controls like a really touchy tank 95% of the time. I should be able to point the left stick in the direction I want her to move; that means heading toward the camera when I move the stick down instead of causing Amaterasu to run extremely tight circles while the camera wigs out. And turning is so sensitive, too. This early Resident Evil style control scheme makes close-quarters movement more difficult than it should be. Camera relative control (Mario 64) is the standard for these 3rd person console affairs, and for a good reason. What was gained by ignoring it?

You can change both X and Y axis of the controller. Just check the Options. I had to switch mine and it makes a world of difference. Control is quite easy now.

[jim crawford]

This early Resident Evil style control scheme makes close-quarters movement more difficult than it should be. Camera relative control (Mario 64) is the standard for these 3rd person console affairs, and for a good reason.
Ouch. Even the Resident Evil and Tomb Raider games have moved on from that kind of user-hating control scheme. If Okami is actually supposed to be an action RPG, the developers might've done well to look for precedents in some existing action RPGs, like, say, Ocarina of Time.


You can change both X and Y axis of the controller. Just check the Options. I had to switch mine and it makes a world of difference. Control is quite easy now.
Do you mean the main character would still control like a tank, only with the axes flipped? Because I wouldn't see that as a significant improvement.

[flyinj]

Okami is great so far, but I'm having trouble adjusting to the controls. I'm at a loss for why Amaterasu controls like a really touchy tank 95% of the time. I should be able to point the left stick in the direction I want her to move; that means heading toward the camera when I move the stick down instead of causing Amaterasu to run extremely tight circles while the camera wigs out. And turning is so sensitive, too. This early Resident Evil style control scheme makes close-quarters movement more difficult than it should be. Camera relative control (Mario 64) is the standard for these 3rd person console affairs, and for a good reason. What was gained by ignoring it?

I really don't know what you're talking about. For me, animation and the controls are very responsive, and the wolf seems to turn on a dime. I'd actually go so far to say that the controls are better than most third person action games.

[Luke M]

I really don't know what you're talking about. For me, animation and the controls are very responsive, and the wolf seems to turn on a dime. I'd actually go so far to say that the controls are better than most third person action games.

The wolf does turn on a dime. My early Resident Evil comment is off base in that regard. My problem is that the wolf turns way too easily; the left/right turning is way too sensitive, especially when she really gets going. I don't like that turning the left thumbstick to the right or left rotates Amaterasu instead of moving her in that direction, relative to the location of the camera. I want controls like Mario 64 or Ninja Gaiden or Zelda, not like Resident Evil 4 where the stick is used to drive the player character like a tank. It feels unnaturally clumsy to me in a game like Okami. I don't understand why the devs went with a character relative touchy tank control scheme instead of the established and reliable camera relative one.

[Jasper Phillips]

Slowing down when you want to make more precise turns helps. I've had no trouble myself, and think the controls are sharp and the game shows amazing promise. So far it's looking to be the best game I've seen all year.

[Gendal]

I haven't liked any of the screenshots I have seen of this game, nor the downloadable movies. When I played a little bit of it at E3 2005 I was even less impressed, totally mystified by the hype it was generating.

But it's a Zelda style game at heart, and that's all I needed to hear. I don't know if the idea that E3 is a bad place to check out games was taking to the extreme or what, but after playing for 5 hours on a 56" DLP I am simply amazed. It's a gorgeous game even with out progressive mode or widescreen.

It controls fine, except maybe when you are running full speed, but it's never really been an issue for me yet. I know capcom has had their hand in some of the GBA Zelda ports, and it shows. This game gets Zelda about as well as Zelda itself.

[Hawkeye Fierce]

Picked it up yesterday, played it for an hour or two. It's Zelda with a new (and very pretty) coat of paint. That's not a bad thing.

[mike]

Amazing game. Got about 2.5 hours in last night, and loved every minute of it. It's the rare game that reminds me of the 'good old days' of gaming, before I became old and jaded and was actually impressed by games. I still have fun with games, don't get me wrong, but rarely do I feel like I am playing something new and inventive.

As for the control, once I inverted it, I have zero issues. I find it responsive and have no complaints.

As for the graphics, if you can't appreciate what they have done here, I don't really know what to tell you. Nothing next-gen has impressed me as much as this. Sure, there are some fine looking games visually, but anything like this? No way.

[K0NY]

I played the demo on this month's OPM disk and it looks nice and all. I had lots of trouble with the brush though. Does this game just scream out "Release me for the Wii!" or am I imagining it?

[Hawkeye Fierce]

As for the graphics, if you can't appreciate what they have done here, I don't really know what to tell you. Nothing next-gen has impressed me as much as this. Sure, there are some fine looking games visually, but anything like this? No way.

Yeah, it's the poster child for how art design can trump graphical horsepower.

[Kaigen]

Picked it up yesterday, played it for an hour or two. It's Zelda with a new (and very pretty) coat of paint. That's not a bad thing.

Yep.

But what a coat of paint it is!

[Miramon]

It's a great game.

I can't comprehend how anyone could seriously complain about the Okami controls after playing Yakuza, which is far more of a fighting game, and far less easy to manage. The Okami animations are much more articulated and small scale, so they flow better and you can control your actions better. I grant that there are better animation and control schemes out there, but I don't think Okami's is bad all things considered. I do agree the camera could be a little better controlled within the well-understood confines of the combat hemisphere, but that's a minor nitpick.

Anyhow it's a lovely and amusing achievement of a game so far. The impact of the beautifully stylized art fades rather rapidly, though, as you get used to it, but it's still nice throughout. I think it's hilarious the way that even after acknowledging your character to actually be Amaterasu, divine ruler and progenitor, everyone is still mocking you all the time.

Someone asked what the triangle brush is for, it's for rapidly filling in areas for things like the rejuvenation brush; sometimes you are required not to have missing patches.

I'm ashamed to say I'm actually stuck at the moment, though. No doubt I'm missing some obvious place to draw something, or perhaps I've just been trying to draw the wrong thing. I'm in the Shinsu fields, and the only places left for me to go are into the forest through the waterway, and up to a ledge area on the east side of the fields. I understand from the sign that the water level is too low, but I haven't found a way to raise it, or to otherwise swim or climb past the waterway. Can't do anything with that ruined tower I can't get to either -- not sure exactly what that big pole-like thing is supposed to be. I'm a bit annoyed that there's a path by the cliff near the pyrotechnicist's house which should be accessible, but an art asset fence that I can jump over everywhere else it's used is blocking me here -- evidently this path is unlocked by something eventually, but they should have used a different larger fence.

[unbongwah]

Personally, I'm quite willing to admit I'm an eye-candy whore and always have been; although what's interesting is that some of the best eye candy I have ever seen was in Shadow of the Colossus, on what was already dated hardware when the game came out. Amazing what good art design can accomplish.
Eye candy != art design

Which helps explain why I find Okami far more visually appealing than, say, Gears of War. Wow, grimy space grunts in armor with big guns: never seen that before...

[Jab]

Miramon, where your at was where I was stuck last night.


spoiler:


You should have the power to make plants bloom now, you have to head back to the beginning village, and make all the dead plants bloom then talk to the village elder to get the next power needed.

[Miramon]

w00t thanks.

Heading back to the village, the game actually told me "hey, there's still stuff to do in the Shinsu fields, you sure you want to go back?" -- with a red circle on the map around the waterway path -- so I assumed that I could proceed further without returning. Oh well, silly me, listening to in-game advice :)

[flyinj]

w00t thanks.

Heading back to the village, the game actually told me "hey, there's still stuff to do in the Shinsu fields, you sure you want to go back?" -- with a red circle on the map around the waterway path -- so I assumed that I could proceed further without returning. Oh well, silly me, listening to in-game advice :)

Minor spoiler, but read if you don't want to be frustrated like I was by a kind of dumb gate the game has:







At the waterway, what you need to do is read the sign to trigger that you've "been there". Even if you'd already read it before, like I did. I must have drown 5 times in that water trying to swim into the cave before reading the sign again.

[Gary Whitta]

Distilling all this down, where does Okami ultimately sit on the easy/difficult scale? I'm old and slow and I don't like it when games are too hard any more.

[Luke M]

It's supposed to be quite easy overall, and I've found that to be the case for the first 2.5 hours. Which really doesn't say much. Multiple reviews have mentioned the lack of difficulty, though. You should be fine.

[Kevin Grey]

Distilling all this down, where does Okami ultimately sit on the easy/difficult scale? I'm old and slow and I don't like it when games are too hard any more.

And yet you love Dead Rising? If you can handle DR, I can't imagine Okami giving you any difficulty.

[Gary Whitta]

And yet you love Dead Rising? If you can handle DR, I can't imagine Okami giving you any difficulty.
I didn't find DR that hard. Nor Saints Row. Well, difficult, but just at that perfect "one more try" level of difficulty.

That said, my favorite game of late is Lego Star Wars II because I loooove the easiness.

[Jab]

Okami isn't too bad, the puzzles are similar to zelda, as you need to find a trigger or power to solve them. There are some nice minigames, there is one similar to dig dug.

Combat is ok, I did have some problems with the camera, but there is a setting that lets you view a larger area. If you can play a game like the Zelda series you should be fine here. So far I think Okami is alittle easier then Wind Waker( I'm about 8 hours in I think).

edit: I do have one question ,for the monster hunting side quest, the guy said you'll know them when you see them. Does that mean they start combat without telling you, or do you need to check every scroll?

[Mudfrost]

Amazing game. Got about 2.5 hours in last night, and loved every minute of it. It's the rare game that reminds me of the 'good old days' of gaming, before I became old and jaded and was actually impressed by games. I still have fun with games, don't get me wrong, but rarely do I feel like I am playing something new and inventive.

My feelings exactly, Mike. I love games like everyone else here, but for all the games I play or have played, The "WOW" factor is a rarity. I don't mean the rush we all feel with a new game; we get that a lot or we'd stop playing games. I'm talking about the discovery of absolute brilliance that nearly knocks you off your chair.

ICO hit me that way as did X-Com. Zelda: Ocarina makes the list. If I search my memory, I could list others that you may or may not agree with like Elite or Empire, but let's not go there -- it's a new world now.

WOW for Okami!

[skyride]

All these comparisions to Zelda, are they new Zelda or classic SNES Zelda gameplay? Classic Zelda gameplay + Unique art = must buy game for me.

[Kevin Grey]

All these comparisions to Zelda, are they new Zelda or classic SNES Zelda gameplay? Classic Zelda gameplay + Unique art = must buy game for me.

Are they really that different? Ocarina of Time and Wind Waker seem pretty faithful to the standard set Link to the Past just moved to 3D (Majora's Mask is a bit different but still great).

[LesJarvis]

Well, I'm sold. Going to pick this up when I get CoH tonight (which I decided to hold off on until my PC upgrades were done. Finally got that finished yesterday.)

Looks like my weekend is shot now.

[Theodore Rex DX]

All these comparisions to Zelda, are they new Zelda or classic SNES Zelda gameplay? Classic Zelda gameplay + Unique art = must buy game for me.

Ocarina of Time was practically a remake of A Link to the Past. The gameplay is virtually identical. Okay, I guess LTTP is a little more boring than Ocarina. Link's Awakening is the winner!

On topic: I can't believe this game is *easier* than Wind Waker. I'm not sure it qualifies for game status if it's that simple.

[Hawkeye Fierce]

On topic: I can't believe this game is *easier* than Wind Waker. I'm not sure it qualifies for game status if it's that simple.

I don't think it is - it's definitely not hard, but you can't just phone in the combat.

[Jasper Phillips]

All these comparisions to Zelda, are they new Zelda or classic SNES Zelda gameplay? Classic Zelda gameplay + Unique art = must buy game for me.
For me Okami out Zeldas any Zelda I've ever played (easily!), plus I like the setting and artwork much more. I'm sure some may still hold Zelda on a pedestal, but if you're into games like Zelda you're bound to at least like Okami.

the only minor nitpick I have is that the camera could be easier to control in combat, but it's not so bad really, as it's easily righted by a quick press of the right thumbstick.

[BDGE]

As far as Zelda comparisons, I'm not sure I dig on the 'switch to arena' fighting in Okami. Would be nice to be able to just run up and whack stuff ala Zelda.

Yakuza does the same thing, and I don't exactly dig on it either; but the way the city is presented in that game, it makes sense switching to a separate location for the fights.

[Kaigen]

I will say this: as far as Zelda clones go, this is probably the first one I've played that actually measures up to Zelda.

Edit: Scratch that - Beyond Good & Evil is up there too. So Okami is the second one.

[Jab]

I'm going to chime in a Wow as well. I'm at the 12 hour mark now, and the story is getting pretty good. I'm at the point now where you can start mixing and matching the different types of weapons for a style you like. Right now my favorite is the reflector rosery combo.

[Gordon Cameron]

Eye candy != art design.

Says you. As far as I'm concerned, "eye candy" just means something that looks good; IMO it's not solely dependent on polygons pushed or bleeding edge tech or whatever. It *is* however limited to graphics as distinct from gameplay.

For example, I consider Platypus (http://www.retro64.com/platypus_game.asp) to be a great eye-candy game. (Not so great in terms of gameplay alas, or at least too difficult after the first level.)

But I guess if one is determined to apply a pejorative connotation to the term that wouldn't do. Art direction is noble, and eye candy is evil, and never the twain shall meet?

[Mudfrost]

For example, I consider Platypus (http://www.retro64.com/platypus_game.asp) to be a great eye-candy game. (Not so great in terms of gameplay alas, or at least too difficult after the first level.)

I dug the Platypus demo. Not quite enough to open my wallet, although I considered doing that after a few levels and still do on occassion, but it's a very cool game with a unique design. It's not on the level of Okami, of course, but I respect any developer who tries something different, and Platypus is surely a different kind of shooter. Love the independents!

Getting back to Okami... when I find something like this, I just bow my head and genuflect.

[Kaigen]

Says you. As far as I'm concerned, "eye candy" just means something that looks good; IMO it's not solely dependent on polygons pushed or bleeding edge tech or whatever. It *is* however limited to graphics as distinct from gameplay.

I think his point was that "Eye Candy" kind of implies an insubstantial experience that just amounts to "Oooh, look at the pretty lights." And that something like Okami is more like oh, say... "Eye Feast." Something with real substance and artistic value.

[Mudfrost]

I think his point was that "Eye Candy" kind of implies an insubstantial experience that just amounts to "Oooh, look at the pretty lights." And that something like Okami is more like oh, say... "Eye Feast." Something with real substance and artistic value.

Yeah, I didn't want to get into that debate. That's why I didn't quote the entire post. I just wanted to comment on Platypus with a final admiration for Okami.

[Theodore Rex DX]

I think his point was that "Eye Candy" kind of implies an insubstantial experience that just amounts to "Oooh, look at the pretty lights." And that something like Okami is more like oh, say... "Eye Feast." Something with real substance and artistic value.

Feasts don't have artistic value. You are wrong.

[Kaigen]

You are a silly person.

[Mudfrost]

I've clocked a few more hours and I'm as impressed now as I was after just a couple hours (ok, except for those first 15 minutes of Sim-type blather -- could've done without that). In fact, I'm more impressed now.

Even when I'm not advancing the story, I'm having a blast just exploring and examining the land and its inhabitants. The world is rich and beautiful beyond belief, offering continuous rewards for patience and close attention, and the battles, while not terribly challenging so far, are just plain fun.

I keep thinking of ICO, one of my favorite game experiences of the last 20 years, and one of the few games that convinced me that this hobby of ours has advanced to a degree that it can now be considered a new form of art. Okami is quite different than ICO, but it's equally beautiful, or more so (I think more), and it's even a better game.

As I slowly bring the land of Okami back to life, this "hobby" of mine is also being rejuvenated. I'm hooked.

[Jab]

I'm pretty far in at this point, and the game keeps getting better. Combat in the later parts of the game is alot more challenging now, as enemies and bosses require abit more work to hurt them. I have a feeling that even though I did alot of side quests, there are a bunch I missed. I'm saving up demon fangs right now to buy the ink refilling artifact.

[Gendal]

Is there a good FAQ anywhere on demon fangs? I can get two fangs courtesy of the golden shower attack and a well placed brush slash on certain mobs, but that doesn't work on most of them, or I am not timing it right.

The game is just flat out awesome. 20+ hours in and it's just getting better. It might come crashing down into some boring and repetitive quest like Windwaker did at the end, but it's hard to fault what's happened up to now.

[Charlatan]

I just started this today, and am about 3 hours in. What a great game this is. I'm glad to hear it continues to be good further in. I just played Ico last week so I see what you mean, Mudfrost. It's not the visual style (each of these games has it in spades) but it's more the feeling of a rich world that you're taking a part in (rather than a world that seems to have been constructed as an obstacle to advancing a storyline). If anyone is on the fence about Okami, jump off the fence and get it.

[Jasper Phillips]

Is there a good FAQ anywhere on demon fangs? I can get two fangs courtesy of the golden shower attack and a well placed brush slash on certain mobs, but that doesn't work on most of them, or I am not timing it right.
I find I can get Demon Fangs reliably against most of the Imps, which are the most common foe I've seen so far. The trick is to take them out with your basic attack (not Power Stroke), and then Power Stroke them when you see their health is out and they're floating up in the air.

I hesitate to ask, but what's the Golden Shower Attack? The closest thing I've seen was fighting one of the Canine Warriors, who liked to dig holes in battle, and should you fall in, would "mark his territory" while you struggled out. Bastard!

I'm about 15 hours in, and so far it's only gotten better. I can even (almost!) forgive the opening exposition, as it lets later scenes progress without immersion severing breaks in stride.

[Kevin Grey]

I hesitate to ask, but what's the Golden Shower Attack? The closest thing I've seen was fighting one of the Canine Warriors, who liked to dig holes in battle, and should you fall in, would "mark his territory" while you struggled out. Bastard!


Attack purchased, IIRC, from the Dojo Master for 100,000 Yen. It's an attack where you piss on the enemy so that they drop an enemy fang.

[Charlatan]

The one thing I'm not liking about this game is the fact that I can't draw that well while holding down R1, pushing the square button, and wiggling the analog stick, When I had to draw 5 circles in a certain timeframe it was a bit frustrating (and the fact that they have to repeat 20 seconds of the cutscene before you try again... ugh).

That and the fact that I couldn't draw a cherry bomb to save my life the first couple times I had to.

But minor quibbles. Still enjoying it.

[Gendal]

I hesitate to ask, but what's the Golden Shower Attack?
It's actually called the Golden Fury, but yep, it's pretty much what you are thinking (and explained by Kevin Grey). There is supposed to be different techniques for getting demon fangs sans Golden Fury, but other than the imp style creatures I have little luck. Golden Fury is keeping me in plenty of fangs, it's more just curiosity on my part.


The one thing I'm not liking about this game is the fact that I can't draw that well while holding down R1, pushing the square button, and wiggling the analog stick, When I had to draw 5 circles in a certain timeframe it was a bit frustrating (and the fact that they have to repeat 20 seconds of the cutscene before you try again... ugh).


27 hours in and so far that has been far and away the most frustrating part. The log ride had the potential to be as bad, but I figured out I need to watch for the "colored bubbles" that rise up depending on where you start and stop your brush stroke. Once I figured that out it was easy. Game still rocks, I am taking my sweet time, it's always fun to wander back through a previously thoroughly explored area and still find tons of new crap you missed.

[Libra]

Is there a good FAQ anywhere on demon fangs? I can get two fangs courtesy of the golden shower attack and a well placed brush slash on certain mobs, but that doesn't work on most of them, or I am not timing it right.


There is another way to obtain Demon Fangs that isn't readily apparent.

The loading screens in the game (there are two variants) are very simple mini-games and "beating" them earns you a demon fang. The first type of loading screen is simply blank with the "Now Loading" text displayed in the lower right corner. If you hammer on your X button, small paw prints will appear on the screen; get 50 paw prints on the screen before the next cutscene/level loads and you will be awarded a demon fang; you will know if you get it because a picture of the fang will appear on screen.

The second type of loading screen has a sequence of small paw prints marching across the bottom and ending in a symbol of some type (forgot what it was). If you hit your X button in time with the paw prints - and you will know you are doing it right as the paw prints will appear bigger - you will be awarded a demon fang at the end of the sequence. The easiest way I've found to do it (which doesn't always work) is just to mash the X button as fast as I can, though I'm sure there's a better way of doing it.

[Charlatan]

There is another way to obtain Demon Fangs that isn't readily apparent.

The loading screens in the game (there are two variants) are very simple mini-games and "beating" them earns you a demon fang. The first type of loading screen is simply blank with the "Now Loading" text displayed in the lower right corner. If you hammer on your X button, small paw prints will appear on the screen; get 50 paw prints on the screen before the next cutscene/level loads and you will be awarded a demon fang; you will know if you get it because a picture of the fang will appear on screen.

The second type of loading screen has a sequence of small paw prints marching across the bottom and ending in a symbol of some type (forgot what it was). If you hit your X button in time with the paw prints - and you will know you are doing it right as the paw prints will appear bigger - you will be awarded a demon fang at the end of the sequence. The easiest way I've found to do it (which doesn't always work) is just to mash the X button as fast as I can, though I'm sure there's a better way of doing it.

That is awesome! How on earth did anyone figure this out?

The little figure at the end of the paw prints is Issun, I do believe.

[Jab]

Well I finshed the game last night, all I'm going to say about the last boss is that it was a very well designed fight. I still have a bunch of sidequests to do, I finally got the item that lets you walk on water, so that opens up some areas to go to. Looks like I'm not done with the game yet, also good catch about the demon fangs, I've been farming one spot where I know I'm sure to get at least 3 to 6 a fight.

[Pogue Mahone]

Pfreak, do I understand you correctly that after beating the end boss, you are still free to wander the game world picking up stuff you may have missed? Or did you just return to an earlier save?

[Kevin Grey]

It's actually called the Golden Fury, but yep, it's pretty much what you are thinking (and explained by Kevin Grey). There is supposed to be different techniques for getting demon fangs sans Golden Fury, but other than the imp style creatures I have little luck. Golden Fury is keeping me in plenty of fangs, it's more just curiosity on my part.

The finishing attack varies depending on the enemy. For example, to get fangs out of the kite looking bad guys you have to use Wind Power celestial brish when they are in their death throws.




27 hours in and so far that has been far and away the most frustrating part. The log ride had the potential to be as bad, but I figured out I need to watch for the "colored bubbles" that rise up depending on where you start and stop your brush stroke. Once I figured that out it was easy.

There is also a subte sort of magnetic effect in place so you just have to get your brush in the right area and let the game move it to the correct point.

[Jab]

Pfreak, do I understand you correctly that after beating the end boss, you are still free to wander the game world picking up stuff you may have missed? Or did you just return to an earlier save?

No, but the game comes out and tells you when your at the "point of no return". Also when you beat the game you unlock all kinds of concept art, which looks frigging amazing. Also I'm really impressed with the enemy art you can view in the beastary.

[JP]

My copy of this is in the mail, can't wait to play it.

So what do you guys mean by "Zelda-like" exactly? Zelda is a pretty expansive design, and people seem to pick different bits of it out as being essential.

To me, Zelda games have a big world that you can explore semi-non-linearly, poking your nose into little houses and mini-dungeons to get heart pieces. And those rare moments when you're in some remote area and you realize what a cool ambience has been created in the area... Wind Waker was far and away the best example of this for me. My favorite dungeons were actually the little non-quest-critical ones, just a bit of scripting to make a cool fight or a clever puzzle.

But for other people, it's about the tricky puzzles in dungeons, the elaborate boss fights, or what have you. So talk about it, how is Okami like and unlike Zelda?

Once I get my copy I'll post some thoughts here. Thanks guys!

[Kevin Grey]

JP, pretty much all of the above. You should be very happy with Okami.

[Gendal]

Take Zelda Windwaker/Ocarina, give it a unique and amazingly attractive art style with wide open vista's (though terrible popup for non static items) and you have Okami. About the only large difference that comes to mind is the battle system. In Zelda fights happen as you run around, in Okami every time you come in contact with a mob it creates a mini arena around you and the monsters. You can flee by pounding on weakened spots in the arena walls, but for the most part you stay and fight till everything is dead, where you get a small rpg like status screen of money/items acquired then you go about your business. I really don't know why they did this, I prefer Zelda's method, but it's by no means a big deal .

If you liked the past few Zelda's you will like Okami too. I like it significantly more, but that's just a matter of taste, and I full expect the new Twilight Princess to raise the bar even more.

[Charles]

Someone please inform me of how stupid I am. I'm stuck in the first town. I'm pretty sure I need to talk to the sleeping guy, but he won't wake up, and I've been everywhere and talked to everyone about three times now (literally, 45 minutes by save time).

[BDGE]

Go a bit north of his house to a big boulder blocking the main road. Some NPC in front of the giant boulder tells you to go wake up the sleeping dude in his house...

[Jab]

If your having trouble getting past one area or dealing with someone, try exploring the rest of the area, and then coming back. Also the log book is pretty handy in that regard.

Also from where you are Charles, you'll also need to repair the water mill with restoration to get what you need to get him to deal with the rock.

[worm]

the golden shower attack
Haha.

I picked up Yakuza and CoH this week. Is there a demo other than in magazines? I heard someone say they were out in some EBs. I'd really like to give this a whirld myself, because pretty and zeldaish just isn't enough.

[Gendal]

The finishing attack varies depending on the enemy. For example, to get fangs out of the kite looking bad guys you have to use Wind Power celestial brish when they are in their death throws.


I knew it was something like that, just didn't piece it together. The loading screen mini games are hard, but that might be because I am using HD Loader, and don't get to see them for very long.

[Kevin Grey]

I knew it was something like that, just didn't piece it together. The loading screen mini games are hard, but that might be because I am using HD Loader, and don't get to see them for very long.

Any issues with using HD Loader?

[Charles]

Go a bit north of his house to a big boulder blocking the main road. Some NPC in front of the giant boulder tells you to go wake up the sleeping dude in his house...

Did that.


If your having trouble getting past one area or dealing with someone, try exploring the rest of the area, and then coming back. Also the log book is pretty handy in that regard.


Log book isn't handy in this case, as it gives me no indication of what is needed short of saving a tree.



Also from where you are Charles, you'll also need to repair the water mill with restoration to get what you need to get him to deal with the rock.

Alright, thanks, I'll try that. Is there any indication in game that you are supposed to do this though? If the entire game is filled with "find it yourself" type blockers like this, I'm not going to bother playing.

[Kevin Grey]

Did that.
Alright, thanks, I'll try that. Is there any indication in game that you are supposed to do this though? If the entire game is filled with "find it yourself" type blockers like this, I'm not going to bother playing.

Usually there are markers on your map for your next objective. So far (I'm about halfway) I haven't had any issues of this sort but, then again, I compulsively do just about all of the sidequests and diversions anyway.

[Jab]

I think the lady in the rice fields said something to the effect of wishing that the water mill wasn't broke. Also whenever you see red text that's a clue that they want you to do something .

One other thing is that you should always talk to people at least 2 times, or until you see the press start button to skip. I think all npcs have at least 2 diffferent conversations to say. The beginning section is abit tricky, but you'll eventually find someone who you can go to for clues for where to go.

[Keith]

Alright, thanks, I'll try that. Is there any indication in game that you are supposed to do this though? If the entire game is filled with "find it yourself" type blockers like this, I'm not going to bother playing.

I actually found the game (at least in the beginning) to be far too much leading-you-by-the-nose style instead of discover-it-yourself.

SPOILERS

Not only does an NPC come out and tell you that she needs the water mill repaired, but then the little bug thing unnecessarily chimes in that maybe you could do it with your brush...

After you talk to the guy at the big rock, you can wake the sleeping guy up with a head-butt. After that, there's a sequence of happenings that lead you - quite by the nose - to the water mill fixing and then out of town.

[Gendal]

Any issues with using HD Loader?

Nope, works great minus the possible issue with the demon fang loading screen mini game. It generally loads so fast I forget to even attempt it, so I don't know yet if it's really any harder because of HDLoader, or I just suck. Great problem to have imo.

[Kevin Grey]

Awesome. I'll probably install it tonight then. Finding out about the minigame helped suffer the loads a bit, but I'd rather just do without them.

[Hawkeye Fierce]

It's pretty tough to do the loading screen minigames even with regular load times - I only occasionally manage to get 50 pawprints in before the load finishes and I almost never manage to do the "trail" of prints correctly. Demon fangs are not so hard to come by that it's really a big deal. If you've got HDLoader, definitely use it.

[Jasper Phillips]

Go a bit north of his house to a big boulder blocking the main road. Some NPC in front of the giant boulder tells you to go wake up the sleeping dude in his house...

Did that.

Are you sure? Including the exorcism battle that it immediately leads to, after which there is a big golden arrow in the air pointing straight to Susano, whom you simply headbut to wake up?

Figuring out you have to talk to everyone to wake up Susano is pretty obscure, relying upon players talking to everyone by default, but once you've done so the game is pretty heavy handed about letting you know what to do next, enough so I don't see how you could miss it.

[Charles]

Are you sure? Including the exorcism battle that it immediately leads to, after which there is a big golden arrow in the air pointing straight to Susano, whom you simply headbut to wake up?

Yeah see, that's the thing. I talked to him but got no battle or arrow. I'll try again tonight. Maybe there's some other weird ass prerequisite that's needed. I mean, of course I talked to him -- he's standing in front of a giant boulder which is obviously blocking my path to the next area of the game.

Maybe my game bugged out or something. Or maybe I forgot to talk to him twice.

Really though, I wish if they have something important to say, they'd get it out all at once. I know about the green triangle, but it's possible that I didn't learn about the green triangle until after I'd talked to the guy at the boulder.

[Jab]

Quick Fyi I just found out, I decided to load up the new game completed file from before I started sidequesting. You can now skip all cutscenes including the 5 minute intro, also the majority of items I had carried over, plus a few "costumes" for ammy.

Also I'm having alot of problems with the blockheads, I've found the final one hidden and I can't beat him. There were at least 2 times I swore I got the right spots but it still didn't count. Are you supposed to hit them in the order the dots appeared, because this one is killing me.

[Jasper Phillips]

I think the order of Blockheads' weakspots matters. I had one where I was certain I got the dots placed right, but failed. On the second try I thought I'd missed the placement, but got the order right, and it worked.

[curst]

I just rented this, and uh yeah, I'll probably be buying soon even if doing so will put me over my entertainment budget for the month. I'm not sure the gameplay really translates into anything beyond what you can get out of most platformers, but the paintbrush gimmick is still kind of fresh and the art style is just off-the-charts fantastic. And I'm a sucker for artsy games.

[Damien Neil]

There is no justice if this doesn't get a Wii port.

[Kaigen]

This game just keeps getting better, and better for me. I am a hardcore Zelda fanboiiiiiii but I think I actually like this more than Wind Waker.

[Kevin Grey]

This game just keeps getting better, and better for me. I am a hardcore Zelda fanboiiiiiii but I think I actually like this more than Wind Waker.

Yeah, I'm in the second half of the game and the game still surprises with some of the different scenarios and dungeons.

[Jab]

I agree about liking this more then windwaker. Probably because I wasn't a big fan of the sailing aspect of it. I'm getting close to the 40 hour mark and the game is winding down a bit for me. Just started my 2nd playthrough, this time I'm going to try to focus on the glave weapons instead of the reflectors.

Also this game has proven that I still suck at drawing, some of the side missions/minigames involving drawing things are hard as hell for me. Is anyone trying to find all the stray beads? I don't think I'm going to be able to as some of them are pretty hard to get.

[Jasper Phillips]

Just finished this up. It was great all the way through, actually getting a bit better as the game went on. My only complaint was that I wish it had been a bit more difficult. Probably the best combination of artwork and enemy design I've ever seen in this kind of game, and I'd say story as well. Definitely much better than Wind Waker.

[Nut]

Am I just too jaded?

I've put down my PC and dove into a PS2, playing both Okami and God Hand quite a number of hours. I just heard too much interesting stuff about both.

Okami I have petered out at, story-wise... eh, not really a spoiler but locationally:





after Sei-An city, and its multitude of sidequests, now floating on "Orca" the "dragon emissary" looking for the "dragon palace", etc. etc.





So I've been at it quite a while, long enough for the novelty of the absolutely gorgeous graphical style to wear thin and leave me staring at the game mechanics. Above all else what's putting me off is the dialogue -- it seems written in an irritating tone at a first grade level, but not just that, it meanders around in circles and takes fifteen screens to say what could have been done in one. I usually love text, but this just seems thrown in for prolonging the game. The fact that much of it scrolls slowly and is unskippable doesn't help.

The lack of a perceptible difficulty level doesn't do much for my enthusiasm, either... I feel like I'm playing a storyboard, not a game. Since I'm a bit of a completionist I've been doing all the little side-chores along the way, too, but I just don't feel engaged and doubt that I will go back and finish. Not to deride anyone who likes the game, but I can't help but feel that it's juvenile, boring and not my teacup, and I don't see the magic in this one. The dungeons were fun but again, no challenge = no interest.

I realize I'm in the minority, but I think I've come to the conclusion that Okami is just pretty window dressing on top of a hollow game.

God Hand, on the other hand, I'm absolutely loving, but it's batshit crazy. I find it almost impossible to believe these two games were made by the same company. Actually, I take that back: I find it hard to believe God Hand got made at all. It's a brilliant combat system, with surprisingly inspired bosses/cutscenes, that pre-doomed itself to failure with zero presentation or handholding, and absolutely sadistic difficulty.

[Jasper Phillips]

I'm guessing you didn't like Zelda either then?

Anyway, you can up the challenge by never using any items. It's still not hard, but the essentially infinite life the items let you have makes it impossible to lose. It suffers from the classic "inifinite bag of healing potions", one of my least favorite design crutches.

I agree about the text though. I didn't mind the expository writing so much (which I felt fit the theme/setting), but you often couldn't speed it up, and the text scrolled slow. All told this was by far overcome by the awesome setting, visual style, and cool enemies.

[Nut]

All told this was by far overcome by the awesome setting, visual style, and cool enemies.

These were utterly fantastic, but I suppose this is where our difference of opinion lies. I didn't think they were enough to float the rest.

The last Zelda I played, actually, was Ocarina of Time; I actually didn't get around to finishing it (I wound up being forced to put it down due to school and no free time), but I recall enjoying it quite a lot more.

Okami appears to be one of those rare cases where it's obviously a solid title that people love, but I just can't bring myself to enjoy. At the very least it's unique, and it's a terrible shame its studio was closed.

Anyone have any idea whatsoever whether the people who left Clover are refounding their own studio? Or is this truly a sad case where the talent is just re-merging with Capcom/other studios and being lost?

I get more adrenaline out of playing God Hand than I have from any game in eons, and whether or not I enjoyed Okami long enough to see it through doesn't change the fact that it's obviously a work of art (if not a game per se). IMO, more titles from Clover really would have enrichened the whole standard of video games.

[SRFisher]

I'm somewhat with Nut, in that I do think it's more conventional-but-pretty than brilliantly-original. And I find the annoying bits really annoying, especially the slow cut scene text with those teeth-gratingly irritating "abududubudubudubub" voices. And the writing is really bad -- not "set up us the bomb" bad, but more juvenile bad, like those text adventures you wrote in high school.

True story: When I first started the game, I got so put off by the 15 minute intro that I immediately went to the options menu to see if I could speed up the text. Then I hit the wrong button and got sent back to the title screen, where I had to cycle through the whole thing again.

It reminds me a bit of Psychonauts: great art, quirky characters, an interesting world to explore, fun and thematically consistent powers for the main character, yet secretly a rather conventional platformer.

That last paragraph's not a complaint -- I love both games to bits. Just sayin', is all.

[Jab]

I find it pretty interesting how completely opposite Okami and God hand are with gameplay and design. I've beaten both games now, and even though I liked Okami more, I think I had more fun and challenge with God hand. Does anyone know when developement of Godhand started, was it in development the same time Okami was?

[bloo]

The art won me over the blah game play for a long time. I've nearly completed it, but I lost steam.

However, I love the paintbrush idea. This begs for a DS style interface, the Wii might be okay, but I think a stylus would be better. And with that, you could allow for more intricate strokes to be required.

In fact, it makes me want to buy a DS for a game that will teach me Kanji (for Japanese - is there a different term for referring to the characters in relation to Chinese?). I found this DS Japanese Kanji dictionary:
http://www.japanchronicles.com/article/12/nintendo-ds-kanji-dictionary

Give that some game-style approach, even if only on the level of Popcap's Typer Shark, and I'm sold.

[Qenan]

Finally got around to trying this yesterday. More accurately, my seven year-old daughter tried it, while I kept her company and napped intermittently. Given the napping, I don't have anything deep to say about the gameplay, except that it kept her engaged for about 3 hours, which is pretty good. But the artwork was beautiful. It was a great example of the difference between polygons and art -- I would take Okami over any of the 360 games I've seen so far, even though the 360 is a much better platform, technically. Art direction goes a long way.

ps: Loading PS2 games off a hard disk rocks. Much faster, and my game disks are saved the wear and tear.

[Thomas Wilde]

I would be a great deal more positive about Okami if Issun had died ten minutes in.

[deepruntramp]

I would be a great deal more positive about Okami if Issun had died ten minutes in.
Oh man, I would have adored the game so much more if that little bitch had bought it...

[Thomas Wilde]

That's something I could really do without in modern video games: the Daxter.

The little shit who rides on your character's shoulder, does most of the talking, and takes partial credit for your actions is a present-day gameplay trope that needs to die in a subnuclear firestorm.

[Pogue Mahone]

Well, sure, but only as long as we can keep the Clank.

[Andrew Mayer]

Sacrifices need to be made.

[Thomas Wilde]

Well, no, Clank does shit. He's smarter than Ratchet, he provides the helicopter backpack, and you play as him sometimes.

Issun, on the other hand, is like Daxter. He talks a lot of shit and does absolutely nothing.

[Kitsune]

Yet another way in which Jak & Daxter has made the world we live in that much worse, is there any horror that series has left to visit upon us? The following are much better games than the Jak & Daxter series:

-a platformer in which you play somebody's pubic hair and can latch onto platforms with it.

-a game where you a disgruntled, middle-aged illegal immigrant who must shampoo people's carpets for a living.

-a game where you a cup of hot chocolate sitting on a table, waiting for someone to drink you before you cool. You can't move or do anything except communicate your lovely drinkiness with hot chocolate telepathy.

-a text adventure for the blind.

-a shmup where you play as genital herpes in a gay banger's bathroom.

-a sim where you must do the book-keeping and accounting for an 8-year-old girl's allowance.

-Vending Machine Tycoon.

-a combination of Pac-Man and I Have No Mouth, And I Must Scream.

-a game where you a single shaft of shaved hair laying in the trash heap.

Yep. Yessiree.

-Kitsune

[KaoFloppy]

wait wait wait. Isn't Daxter, like, a weapon? Jak throws him around & stuff, right?

[Jab]

I think they got rid of that in Jak 2 when Jak started talking.

[Thomas Wilde]

Yet another way in which Jak & Daxter has made the world we live in that much worse, is there any horror that series has left to visit upon us? The following are much better games than the Jak & Daxter series:

Thank you for that dark and harrowing glimpse of your psyche, Kitsune. I'm off to shower for the next three days.

[Pogue Mahone]

Jeez Kitsune, I can agree with Thomas about the rather annoying Daxter, and I know lots of people were turned off by the guns and angst of the latter games, but I can't see how they earn that kind of reaction - they're no works of art but ultimately enjoyed them. By the way, put me down for a copy of I Have No Mouth And I Must Eat Lots of Dots.

[Kitsune]

Don't mind me, I've just had a pathological grudge for against Naughty Dog, Mortal Kombat and Xenogears/Xenosaga for years now. They're pretty much the only games I rail against. I'd rather have my ass drilled with one of those things plumbers use to unclog your toilet than play those games! ^_^

-Kitsune

[zx81-Amd64]

Okami will be the first game i get when i get a PS2(still not cheap enough) - i love that traditional japanese art style. I may not like the game(i'm not a mega zelda fan), but i could probably just watch the game for hours. Is the music fitting to the games artwork?

[EvilIdler]

-a platformer in which you play somebody's pubic hair and can latch onto platforms with it.


Dude, design document. Now!



-a game where you a cup of hot chocolate sitting on a table, waiting for someone to drink you before you cool. You can't move or do anything except communicate your lovely drinkiness with hot chocolate telepathy.

This would edge out Root Beer Tapper from its spot in the XBLA rankings.



-a text adventure for the blind.

Text adventures ARE for the blind, you insensitive clod!
(I know of one blind guy who plays 'em - Z-code emulator and braille reader FTW!)



-Vending Machine Tycoon.

I'm pretty sure a company like PopCap, if not actually them, has made something like it.



-a combination of Pac-Man and I Have No Mouth, And I Must Scream.

Awright, that could be a great, if quirky game. You start the game as a regular
Pac-Man, then depending on how much you annoy the computer, you are
randomly assigned more limbs and genitalia (or have some removed if you
are enjoying it too much). Think of it like Spore for asylum patients.



-a game where you a single shaft of shaved hair laying in the trash heap.

Would that play anything like Gish?

[EvilIdler]

Is the music fitting to the games artwork?
It's been some weeks since I played it, but I don't remember the music as
particularly annoying. That's a plus in my book :)

PS2s are cheaper than DS and DS Lite here. What are they robbing you for in your neck of the woods?

[zx81-Amd64]

http://www.game.co.uk/lowdown.aspx?lid=4929&cat=9

It seems to have remained the same for years now?(ever since the initial xbox vs PS2 price cuts) - ok £100 is not going to break the bank, but after the release of the PS3 i was hoping for some further price cutting.

[EvilIdler]

Huh. It's around £30 less at the cheapest stores here. Online is actually more!

[jfletch]

Okami will be the first game i get when i get a PS2(still not cheap enough) - i love that traditional japanese art style. I may not like the game(i'm not a mega zelda fan), but i could probably just watch the game for hours. Is the music fitting to the games artwork?

Okami may have the very best soundtrack I've ever heard. I want the soundtrack, I just haven't gotten around to buying it.

[Jab]

The end theme was pretty good, it's a shame that it was around that time I picked up god hand and got that ending theme stuck in my head.

[jim crawford]

First, the good news: the tank controls alluded to earlier in the thread aren't there. Okami's controls are fine -- camera-relative and fine. Also, the art design and the music are both gorgeous.

I've been playing about three hours now and aside from some extremely perfunctory combat, the gameplay so far consists of running around and painting -- gestural spellcasting, basically. The spell effects are entirely scripted, so whether they have any effect depends on whether the designers implemented an effect for that particular spell, in that particular situation.

In other words, Okami is an adventure game, and so the quality of Okami is heavily dependent on how fairly, consistently and entertainingly the game responds to the player applying various verbs to various nouns. The writing is voluminous, retarded JRPG drivel, so entertainment is pretty much out the window; I will tell you how fair and consistent Okami is by way of an example:

There's a boulder blocking your path. You might try the "slice" spell to break the boulder, especially because that's one of the two spells the game has been training you to cast for the past two hours. If you do, the game won't even acknowledge that you tried. What you're supposed to do is go wake up the lout who thinks he's a hero -- a deeply-resonant Japanese archetype, I'm sure -- and help him "train" by getting him drunk and then using the slice spell to destroy the targets he attacks and misses, to fool him into thinking he isn't missing.

After you have him brimming with false pride, you can get him to go attack the boulder. He misses, just like in training, so you have to use the slice spell on the boulder just as he misses it in order to break it. The same slice spell that had no effect when Lout-san wasn't in the vicinity.

This bullshit got 93% in Metacritic? I must be missing something, but I'm not about to go spend 30 hours muddling through lousy puzzle design with a FAQ in order to find out what it is. I'm at the save point just a bit after the boulder I mentioned. Do they introduce any interesting mechanics soon? Maybe the past three hours have been an extended minigame?

[Chris Nahr]

I haven't played Okami and probably won't, as it doesn't run on my Euro PS3. But I noticed that the various 90% reviews always had those very curious reservations and "good-in-spite-of-problems" phrasings that made me wary of the game... usually that's a sign of games that the reviewers don't actually like but feel obliged to like, in order to retain their geek credentials.

[Gav]

It's been a while since I played, but IIRC the game tells you early on that your slice can't break everything. Also, the warrior can do more than you, if you help him along--there's a few places where that happens.

I really can't recall any places where I needed to go to gamefaqs, and I'm not an adventure game person at all.

They introduce more interesting mechanics pretty quickly--there are more gestures that do more interesting things. The combat doesn't get hard at all, though, except for one or two boss fights. The dialogue also starts taking up much less time.

[pj-]

I didn't think any of the "puzzles" were really illogical or hard. Doesn't the guy next to the rock say something about waking up the drunken sword dude?

[Bahimiron]

I was gonna see if anyone's played the Wii version yet.

Then I hit Gamerankings.

Oh, god bless you, Gamerankings. They took EGM's ratings and translated them from their current grade scale system into a 91.67 out of 10.

That's good, though. I mean, I'll buy a 91.67. It's pretty close to the top of the 91.54 to 91.69 scale, y'know. Though to be honest, I draw the line at getting anything that gets below a 91.63.

[KaoFloppy]

is the intro now skipable?

[sventest]

Yes, everything is skippable if you want to.

[jerri blank]

I never had a PS2 but read a lot of good things about this game. The new Wii version is on its way to me from Gamefly. Can't wait.

[Miramon]

In retrospect, I thought it was a pretty good game, especially early on when you are learning the cool things you can do. I didn't have any problem with the deliberate puzzles, like with messing around with Susanoo.

But there is a lot of inconsistency to the brush powers, which is irritating. It's understandable that it's a pain for the devs to make all random scenery throughout the world destroyable, and it's also a long-time convention that various low obstacles are really walls in these games, but in a semi-platformer with scenery-changing powers, it's really annoying not to be able to just walk over a low fence or cut pretty much any little wooden thing to bits.

There is also some annoyance in that various impassable areas appear to be close to being passable, and you can mess around for quite a while with combinations of jumping and power usage before you convince yourself you can't go any further in some particular direction as yet.

I don't think these annoyances are really all that lethal for the enjoyment of the overall game, but I must admit that I didn't finish it after completing around 80% or so. I'm not sure why really, but I think the gameplay just got a bit old, and I guess wherever it was I quit didn't have any new environments or features to play with.

[BDGE]

Wii version has crashed on me twice so far...not a good sign.

[Adree]

Appears the boxart for the wii version has an IGN watermark on it. Sloppy.

http://www.destructoid.com/oopsies-ign-watermark-on-the-cover-of-okami-82361.phtml

[Foxstab]

Looks great, looks fun, looks cool, looks DMC, looks...OMG IT"S CONSOLE! DAMN YOU! DAMN YOU TO HELL!

;)

[Giolon]

Appears the boxart for the wii version has an IGN watermark on it. Sloppy.

http://www.destructoid.com/oopsies-ign-watermark-on-the-cover-of-okami-82361.phtml

Capcom is making up for that in a very big, awesome way:

http://blog.capcom.com/archives/1154

[Neopythia]

I just picked up the Wii version last night, but I'm yet to play. I've been waiting for it for a long time as the PS2 version looked sublime. Does the Wii port hold up to the original?

[Wholly Schmidt]

Reviews say the controls are a step backward, but that it looks nice in widescreen 480p.

[BDGE]

I'm nearly 20 hours into the Wii version and have acclimated quite nicely to the controls, but there is a learning curve. Drawing is only rarely an issue now(damn crescent moon!), but the real hurdle is still waggle combat.

Equipping anything outside of rosary beads will often lead to forced lockup of moves as it gets difficult to figure the perfect timing expected to shake the wiimote to correspond to chain attacks(too fast and the wolf won't respond to anything until you calm down and recenter; too slow and you'll be doing lots of little single hit strikes with varying downtime between). Rosary beads just let you shake the crap out of the remote until everything dies on screen, so at least there is a workaround.

[Neopythia]

I'm now about 8 hours in, having just completed my first boss battle. It truly is an amazing game. The closest thing to Zelda...who are we kidding it is Zelda. The similarities to the Twilight Princess are staggering.

I don't find combat to be as difficult, although it takes more precision than I would have thought. I find if you shake wildly, you're not going to do much. Perhaps a target lock function would help, a la Zelda.

I'm stuggling with the painting. Interacting with the gamewold outside of combat is fine, but trying to use timed strikes in combat can be frustrating.

It's really a shame. If there was a game perfectly designed for the Wii, this would be it. It's still fun, beautiful and worth picking up, but the controls just aren't there.

[Cubit]

I finally got my 2 replacement box covers in the mail today. They are actually quite beautiful. I'm considering framing them.