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Hawkeye Fierce
08-29-2006, 06:09 AM
Didn't see this mentioned yet - the Oblivion megamod Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul has just been released in its latest version. It completely rebalances the game, taking away the dynamic leveled content and adding a metric fuckton of stuff. I haven't had a chance to try it yet, but the readme file is impressive. Find it here:

http://jorgeoscuro.googlepages.com/

Jake Plane
08-29-2006, 06:39 AM
I loved Oblivion but now, unless they make a mod where I enter into a town and find it overrun with zombies, I'm just not into it at the moment.

EDIT: everyone should download the trailer for Oblivion Overhaul 1.3. The free flowing capes look great; clearly should have been included.

HRose
08-29-2006, 07:05 AM
Too bloated. I use an old version of Francesco's mod that mixes a bit dynamic with static content.

I've set up my install rather well, but the client of the game is so buggy that I have enough after 30 minutes of play.

Paxton
08-29-2006, 09:24 AM
I've been playing with OOO v1.23 (along with many of the other recommended mods from the oblivion mod wiki), and having a blast. Since I never played the vanilla game, I can't really compare the two. But I will comment that after 15 hours of morrowind i hated it because of the broken system, but I'm still engaged 35 hours into Oblivion. Can't wait to try the new version. the trailer looks amazing.

Kunikos
08-29-2006, 09:38 AM
Anyone use an alternative leveling mod? I've been using Vehem edition of Balor's Leveling mod, Qmann v2 edition (yes, ridiculous naming) but have been eyeing Kobu's Alternative Leveling Mod as something to use when I re-roll for OOO 1.3. (Which will be when I unpack my PC from the moving boxes and setup my DSL in a few days)

Quaro
08-29-2006, 10:09 AM
IMO, not bloated enough. I wish someone, other than me, would spend hours researching which mods are best compatible with Oscuro's and then package them all up into one giant install. One click, done.

Kunikos
08-29-2006, 10:33 AM
Quaro: Agreed. Compatibility issues are about the worst thing out there for the Oblivion modding scene right now. :( If you read the tail end of the readme on the OOO site there is a "recommended mods" section, which I believe suggests some compatible mods. I would recommend "Attack and Hide," "Harvest Flora," "Harvest Containers," BTmod, and a leveling mod such as Kobu's, but I haven't tested any of these yet with OOO 1.3.

HRose
08-29-2006, 10:36 AM
What I mean is that with these large packages based on users mods you always have tradeoffs of quality.

It's different when you take a certain mod that tweaks a certain part of the game with a goal in mind, but when you aggressively add content and change the direction of the game you are always going to accept those tradeoffs. There will be interesting things as there will be things that really suck.

It's great if you are on the second run through the game and want to see something different, but in many cases those "improvements" are definitely arguable.

Kunikos
08-29-2006, 10:39 AM
HRose: Choice is good. Let's just leave it at that. Also, having someone else do the work of bundling a bunch of them together is good for us lazy folk. We can easily look through all the changes listed and see whether we like or dislike them or whether we would like to couple it with other small focused changes.

HRose
08-29-2006, 10:51 AM
Yes, choice is good. I discard about 98% of the mods I try. That's the point.

With the big bundles instead you are sort of stuck with what you get. And it's often "meh!".

Kunikos
08-29-2006, 10:58 AM
So choose not to use the big bundle then. There are alternative big bundles. Or roll-your-own. This is the same debate as modding WoW, whether to use a bundled pack or to cobble together a bunch of mods that may or may not work together very nicely. But in that scenario deleting them is FAR easier as they only exist in a single directory and can be easily removed, unlike Oblivion which doesn't support such a behavior and has to mimic the internal structure of the .bsa files in order to supercede them. I mean jeez, I thought we figured out how to overcome this kind of bullshit back in the Quake days with ordered PAK files which were just zipped and load in alphabetical order. I mean with Oblivion loading ESPs and getting them to work properly is a crapshoot at best if you have more than a handful of them that change major portions of the gameplay. The tools that are out there serve to confuse more than help (Oblivion Mod Manager, which is nearly useless without OMODs and nobody seems to package OMODs).

Gendal
08-29-2006, 01:49 PM
The tools that are out there serve to confuse more than help (Oblivion Mod Manager, which is nearly useless without OMODs and nobody seems to package OMODs).

It's pretty easy to make your own OMOD, it's what I do, and it works great. I keep throwing stuff up at OOO 1.3 to see if it sticks, and so far with OMM it does. Trying to get more than a couple of mods working with out OMM is a losing proposition.

Kunikos
08-29-2006, 01:52 PM
I had a ton of things "working" together (ie launches and you can start and play games) but after a while the in-game menus would lock up (incidentally not the game engine just the input).

HRose
09-05-2006, 08:04 AM
So I went on a clean install and gave that mod a try after reading up the readme and thinking it had some good premises.

The problem is that it didn't made a very good impression on me. The tutorial part is pretty much identic. Rats and zombies do almost zero damage and die with two hits. Then you go outside.

Outside I had a few problems with lag, probably because of grass and fish spawns added to the game. I notice that the crabs spawn in groups now. This is nice and they also have a veried size. I like the idea but I also noticed that the smaller crabs seems as resistent as the large ones. Not really a consistent behaviour when you see this tiny crab fleeing from you and you still have to swing repeatedly your big sword at it.

Then you have the same options as always. Your can cross the river to fight the two bandit and enter the ayelid-something dungeon or go right where there's a cave guarded by an imp.

Well, the bandit camp doesn't have anymore the two weak bandits, but a whole squad of 5-6 of them, well equipped and almost unbeatable even if you "pull" and fight only one of them. With the bowman that takes almost 1/4 of your health with each arrow.

So I tried the other cave with the imp. And the imp fled as soon as it saw me and I had to chase it down for a while. Then I go in. There are more imps on the first level and again all they do is flee as soon they see me. Unfortunaterly fleeing in a cave just means that they run straight against a wall, with me repeatedly slashing their naked ass, till they die. Okaay...

Second level. More imps that flee as they see me, I chase them down the corridor, then I see a phantom like figure far away. Then I see a HUGE glowing projectile coming toward me that takes the whole corridor (impossible to dodge). It hits me. I die. I was at FULL health.

That's pretty much it. From what I seen the difficulty scales HORRIBLY. You go from trivial to impossible in one step. From rats that do no damage, to imps that are stuck against walls without even trying to defend themselves (great AI, duh), to one-hit kills or even zergs of bandits RIGHT ACROSS the river in what is supposed to be the noob zone.

Beside that, there must be something that messes with the AI because in many, many cases the monsters didn't notice my presence till I was very close (and obviously not in stealth).

So, the impression I got wasn't really good. There are some good ideas and I accept a mod that tries to make the content static. But if you decide to make the content static then YOU HAVE TO design the progression so that is consistent and flows naturally. Without being overly frustrated, or unbeatable, one-hit kill monsters placed in a starter dungeon.

As it is right now the content just calibrated and designed very very badly.

Glycerine
09-05-2006, 08:43 AM
So, the impression I got wasn't really good. There are some good ideas and I accept a mod that tries to make the content static. But if you decide to make the content static then YOU HAVE TO design the progression so that is consistent and flows naturally. Without being overly frustrated, or unbeatable, one-hit kill monsters placed in a starter dungeon.

As it is right now the content just calibrated and designed very very badly.

Yeah, I think you fucked it up somehow because that's not what I'm seeing. I did a clean install and have been playing OOO 1.3 (along with a couple of other visual-related mods) with none of these issues. There were only 2 bandits in the camp across the lake and they were reasonably difficult for a newbie character, the imps attacked me on site without issue, and I was killed by some sort of mountain lion right outside of Bruma in just three hits. I've been to almost all of the major towns as I am doing the Mage's guild recommendation quests and haven't had any issues. Overall, I really like what I see so far.

glyc

Gendal
09-05-2006, 09:01 AM
I had the complete opposite experience from HRose too. It's overall been a lot more balanced and playable with my thief/assassin style character than it was with vanilla Oblivion. I could barely kill a goblin with out using 8 arrows, all at sneak attack 4x, but with OOO 1.3 they actually die in a reasonable time frame. It's still hard, but every fight isn't an epic battle. Boss fights are tough, but that's a good thing.

Unicorn McGriddle
09-05-2006, 12:51 PM
HRose: What's your difficulty slider setting? Maybe that's part of it.

HRose
09-05-2006, 01:32 PM
If I was complaining about the difficulty I could understand.

But I'm not complaining about that. I'm complaining about the scaling. The fact that I went from a monster that represents no harm at all to one that killed me in one hit.

Not a very good, fun progression.

And then the problems with the AI, the imps just starting to flee as they see me and that odd problem with mobs not noticing my presence.

Anyway, I'll restart, make new character and see how things go. But I don't expect surprises.

Kunikos
09-05-2006, 02:07 PM
Well if you're used to the standard Oblivion where you can go and beat Kvatch at level 1, then no wonder you're bitching about it. Did you think maybe you should just not go into caves with a bunch of bandits when you are level 1 and have the combat skills of a townsperson? It could also be that you are used to being a pure marksman and didn't realize that OOO 1.3 nerfs the backward movement speed.

HRose
09-05-2006, 04:10 PM
So, I looked things up on the editor.

The reason why Imps don't attack and just flee is because they have very low confidence and aggression values.

These imps have around 15 hitpoints and do from 4 to 15 damage (if they actually fought back).

In the exact same spot where these can spawn, this mod can spawn a "mystical imp" as well (48% normal imp - 20% rat - 16% crazed imp - 16% mystical imp). This creature is the one who killed me in one single hit.

It has 150 hit points and hits from 13 to 50+ damage.

My character had 60 hitpoints but I had the difficulty slider moved just enough to get 10 more and die with one hit.

Which confirms my theory. The mod just has the difficulty scaling really bad. You just shouldn't have spawn points that can spawn a level 1 creature that just flees or a level 10 creature with that kind of power.

The original game had the content completely scaled and it wasn't fun because you always knew what you were going to find. While this mod makes the difficulty completely random. From super easy to impossible in one step.

Btw, I also looked the problem with the tiny mudcrabs requiring the same number of attacks as the larger ones. That's also true. There are various types of crabs with varied size. But they all share the exact hitpoint value.

HRose
09-05-2006, 05:04 PM
Blah. I was trying to create a mod and figure out if I could at least mitigate that unbalance but I cannot seem to create an esp file.

I load morrowind.esp, I load oscuro. Then when I try to save I get:
Assertion at C:/projects/tes4/TES shared/TESObjectCell.cpp 1515

Paxton
09-09-2006, 09:18 AM
Here is a screen shot of my coolest oblivion moment so far: giant subterranean mud crabs!

http://img330.imageshack.us/my.php?image=giantmudcrabsnc6.jpg

This was actually creepy as hell last night around 2 AM. I assume it is an oscuro's addition, since vanilla oblivion doesn't play with creatures sizes, right?

spence
09-09-2006, 02:13 PM
I think that may be in normal Oblivion. I ran into that big guy and and quaffed a bunch of potions in preperation of a big fight, then one shotted him :P I was a little disapointed.

olaf
09-09-2006, 03:48 PM
So what are some good mods? What do you guys like? I am about to get back into it.

I checked out http://www.tescreens.be/oblivionmodwiki/index.php/Main_Page and they have some recommended stuff but damn its kind of like overkill.

I am not even sure what I am looking for but in general my problems with the default game were mostly related to the leveling up. I felt like you almost didnt want to take the stuff you enjoy doing as primary skills because you level up too fast and certain parts of the game become way more difficult than they probably are intended to be. I also kind of hate the combat in both Morrowind and Oblivion. I do like the game overall though and liked Morrowind too.

Aeon221
09-09-2006, 04:49 PM
http://www.tescreens.be/oblivionmodwiki/index.php/AF_Leveling_Mod

I use this mod with my game in place of the vanilla levelling. It uses a more dynamic approach (calculating attributes with two decimal places automatically, and allowing you to gain them over time, rather than only at levelling). I cannot summarize it effectively, but I will tell you that I am very happy with it.

Prior to this I used a mod that simply granted +5 on level up to any attribute governing a skill that had been levelled at least once. It might be slightly cheaty, but it saved me assloads of time usually wasted in powergaming my character for perfect stats. Simple, unobtrusive, and removed in favor of the AF Level Mod.

My main complaint with the game is the addition of voice acting. Unlike Morrowind's crazy-huge amounts of npc text, Oblivion exhibits a paucity of interesting information to be gleaned from the various pointless wanderers. Except for the Hlaalu alchemist in Skingrad, whose dialogue is hilarious.

jpinard
09-09-2006, 04:52 PM
Does OOO contain any interface mods? Will it work with the interface that doesn't make you scroll thorugh a trillion items in your backpack?

Aeon221
09-09-2006, 07:04 PM
The wiki on it says that it doesn't play well with others. However, the changelog says nothing about interface changes, so presumably it should be okay with interface mods.

Gendal
09-09-2006, 08:20 PM
The wiki on it says that it doesn't play well with others. However, the changelog says nothing about interface changes, so presumably it should be okay with interface mods.

It plays well with lots o mods. Interface mods like BTMod and some others work great with OOO.

Ben Sones
09-10-2006, 03:22 PM
So... if one wants to stop using Oscuro's mod (and either revert to vanilla Oblivion, or to another tweak mod like Francesco's), is it sufficient to just toggle off the mod in the data manager? Or do you have to track down all of the billion files that the mod drops in various folders in the /data directory, or reinstall Oblivion, or something like that?

mystery
09-10-2006, 05:54 PM
So, I downloaded a bunch of mods off of Fileplanet, and started a new character. I have difficulty set at 50% (pretty standard for me for an enjoyable and challenging game). One of the mods I downloaded was a "new monster" mod, which added 40+ new monster models to the game, including giants.

Holy crap, this game is a new beast, now. The road is littered with various factions of aggressive folks. The outlaws and barbarians will usually attack each other, if you play your cards right. It's good old fashioned fun just watching them pummel on each other.

Sam Jones
09-11-2006, 05:10 AM
Having a great time with OOO 1.3. The only thing I've changed is that I've loaded a vanilla skill levelling rate mod - I don't want to dump 300 hrs into getting a character to level 20, and OOO is way, way too slow at skill levelling by default.

Love the new NPC factions, reworked dungeons, static-level NPCs and monsters, weapons, armour etc. It feels a lot more like I expected and wanted Oblivion to be in the first place. I got caught in the middle of a fight between Bandits and (I think) necromancers in one of the dungeons near the start of the game which was pretty exciting. There's lots of encounters like this in OOO.

Curious side effect of OOO - the recently released official spells mod is the first of the official mods I haven't picked up. Why? Because it will conflict with OOO, a fan mod. I wonder if Bethsoft have given much thought to the implications of fan mods taking precedence over official releases in player's eyes?

PeterGinsberg
09-11-2006, 05:33 AM
Having a great time with OOO 1.3. The only thing I've changed is that I've loaded a vanilla skill levelling rate mod - I don't want to dump 300 hrs into getting a character to level 20, and OOO is way, way too slow at skill levelling by default.

I've noticed the same thing, can you describe what you did to restore the vanilla levelling rate?

HRose
09-11-2006, 05:42 AM
I think there are a bunch of .esp files with various rate settings already in the package.

PeterGinsberg
09-11-2006, 05:46 AM
Ah yes, there's actually a bunch of them OOO-Level_Slow.esp, and then more in the OOO-Level_Slow.esp folder. I guess I can just remove all of them.

EDIT: Ah, not quite that simple, thanks sam :)

Sam Jones
09-11-2006, 05:48 AM
I've noticed the same thing, can you describe what you did to restore the vanilla levelling rate?

Yep, in the directory that OOO is installed to, there's a subdir called addons - one of which is called "Levelling Rates". You can use one (only choose one) of the mods in there to override OOO's defaults. There's one called "generic", which takes you back to Oblivion's normal levelling rate, or you can choose one that's 2x normal, 3x normal etc. Just make sure that you use a load-ordering app like Oblivion Mod Manager to ensure that the levelling mod is loaded *after* OOO.

Ben Sones
09-11-2006, 06:03 AM
I like the idea of this mod, but after about six hours of play, I'm nuking it. The placement of low and higher level enemies seems pretty erratic. I'll be plowing through one-hit kill kill creatures and then suddenly stumble across something that can kill me in one hit, sometimes in the same dungeon. Worse still, the treasure placement seems to be way off-kilter; I've found powerful magical and mithril items in unguarded chests, or in chests guarded by level one goblin weenies. And while I'd agree that the original character progression was a bit too fast, the new system is way, way too slow. Six hours in (two dungeons and two quest arcs completed) and I'm only two-thirds of the way to level 2. WTF? At this rate, I'll be able to venture out into the world sometime next summer. I see above that I can turn that off (presumably with a restart), but since I'm not liking the overall balance of the mod anyway, I'll probably just nuke the whole thing.

Some of the other stuff it adds I like (particularly the living economy), and will probably keep. But I'm thinking of restarting with Francesco's mod and seeing if it fares better. Hopefully just toggling Oscuro's mod off in the data manager is sufficient; it would be annoying to track down all of the folders that it installed stuff in.

Sam Jones
09-11-2006, 06:09 AM
I like the idea of this mod, but after about six hours of play, I'm nuking it. The placement of low and higher level enemies seems pretty erratic. I'll be plowing through one-hit kill kill creatures and then suddenly stumble across something that can kill me in one hit, sometimes in the same dungeon.

I've seen that in a few dungeons. Doesn't reall bother me - in fact I much prefer having a boss that I can come back to later, as opposed to Oblivion's default of giving you fuck all for exploring a dungeon.

Ben Sones
09-11-2006, 06:19 AM
I hate "gotchas" like that. Personally, I'd like something where dungeons don't level with you, but where you also don't suddenly go from fighting level one goblins to fighting level six bandits with no warning. Morrowind sometimes had more difficult enemies in dungeons, but not that much more difficult. If you were sufficient level to be in the dungeon, you could generally get through it, even if you had some tough fights.

SpoofyChop
09-11-2006, 07:45 AM
Yeah gotchas are not cool. I liked the fact that when I entered a dungeon I could be sure that I was going to be able to beat it.

HRose
09-11-2006, 07:57 AM
Personally, I'd like something where dungeons don't level with you, but where you also don't suddenly go from fighting level one goblins to fighting level six bandits with no warning.
Yeah, that's also what I wrote earlier in this thread.

Oscuro is a good base to work on and improve, but who wants to put so much work on top of a so big mod?

I like in particular how he made different copies of the same mob type to change the scale and that stats, it helps to make the fights a bit more varied.

Francesco's I think it is closer to the original game and there's only one mob type for each entry. It has much better game design and the difficulty scales better, the quests are level capped so with a more "static" feel. But at the end even this mod spawns mob types depending on your level.

What I would like to see is a mod that makes the world more static. Following two basic rules:

- A dungeon should have its static mob types. If there are trolls and goblins then I always want to see trolls and goblins no matter of my level. Player's level should have zero influence on the type of creature spawned in a dungeon, and very small influence in the wilderness (where the location should matter to define the mob-type you encounter).

- The player's level should influence (1) the kind of mob spawned between same-type creatures, though. For example a different kind of goblin, but still a golbin. Then it could influence (2) the possibility to find more than one enemy for each spawn. And finally (3) each mob type should be only scaled between a min and max level, so that they somewhat adapt their stats to the player's level, but still respecting their nature.

I wonder if Francesco's is easier to tweak in that direction than Oscuro's. But at the end I still think it would be too much work to do something like that (I'm surprised that there isn't one mod that follows that idea).

Btw, for Francesco's you need a brand new fresh game.

Aeon221
09-13-2006, 02:21 PM
Sorry for the semi-necrotic nature of this post, but a quick question.

Has anyone found a mod altering the Mages Guild quest line from its current "Go there, whack that biatch" setup? Something more political would be apropos, but honestly any change would be nice.

I mean, its not the Fighter's Guild or something.

EvilIdler
09-13-2006, 02:58 PM
Not all the mage guild quests are about killing, and some side-quests are
also neat. It's a slight pain having to do the ones that are all about combat,
though. Some characters will get their butts kicked by the rogue mage.

The dreamworld sidequest should really have been one of the progression
quests. It would have made more sense, and it is one of the better ones.

The "Thievery in the Imperial City" plugin is a good addition for thieves,
and I'd love to see more of that sort for the other archetypes. If you want
fighting 'quests', just play the darn main plot :)

It would be a major project, but a series of guild quests (and new factions
with quest lines - priests, monks, noblemen, supernaturals) would be well
received.