Chromehounds: DoubleDouble Counters?

[Chowhound]

Anyone getting a bit sick of the fotm doubledouble hounds?

Inverse Legs
C-pit, Gen
A double howitzer on each side of the c-pit

These mechs just shoot in your general direction, and mess you up badly with splash damage. You can barely move, and barely see. The reload time for that is insanely short, and they can move 150+ plus as well.

Anyone have a decent counter for them? Seems like every match we play against squads, they're running these fotm mechs. I think the common thought now is "If Sega ain't fixin' them, I'll keep usin' em". Frankly, it is really making the game not as much fun now.

[Guido Jones]

Anyone getting a bit sick of the fotm doubledouble hounds?

Inverse Legs
C-pit, Gen
A double howitzer on each side of the c-pit

These mechs just shoot in your general direction, and mess you up badly with splash damage. You can barely move, and barely see. The reload time for that is insanely short, and they can move 150+ plus as well.

Anyone have a decent counter for them? Seems like every match we play against squads, they're running these fotm mechs. I think the common thought now is "If Sega ain't fixin' them, I'll keep usin' em". Frankly, it is really making the game not as much fun now.

I would like to know what legs that they're on that they're moving 150+ on. If they are, they have a super light cockpit making them easy to kill.

As to countering them - most of the people playing those builds are noobs. If you can stay out of close range, they won't be able to hit you as those guns are super inaccurate on inverse legs. If you can't (say a city map), use cover and tactics to gain the advantage - they don't reload faster then say 4 Anelaces.

[K0NY]

Provided you see them before they see you, snipers are usually great for dealing with these clowns. The cockpit can't take more than a couple of hits from a sniper cannon. If you're far enough away, you'll also have plenty of time to get out of the way of approaching shells.

[MatthewF]

What? Howitzers are incredibly accurate and stable on inverse legs, as long as you mount a spacer between the legs and cockpit and put the weapons on the spacer. I have a couple howitzer builds, and one of them uses the RFZ-RJ inverse legs, 2 morskoj howitzers, 2 sal kar howitzers, one of those "spare" generators that actually works really well as a regular generator, and the 8200 durability morskoj cockpit. It even has dual missile counters. It's barely under the weight limit, but it has 152 speed. Obviously a very tough build, but not the worst I've ever gone up against.

My favorite build though is a 3 howitzer + 2 cannon treaded model with the tarakia ~5000 durability cockpit. Dual missile counters, armor on the weapons, 161 speed. Not as stable as the inverse build, but the rotation speed makes it all worth it -- so much easier to aim.

[Guido Jones]

What? Howitzers are incredibly accurate and stable on inverse legs

I'm not talking howitzers, I'm talking about the 1501/D double heavy cannons, as was the original post.

[Chowhound]

I believe the most common legs used are the heaviest Morskoj inverse ones. You add the Saba chip to that, or the Morksoj one, and you've got yourself a pretty fast hound for once carring double doubles.

They don't need to be accurate - even being in the vincinity as they hit caused your gun camera to spin, and gives you AoE damage all over your mech. The gen is over the c-pit, and with a spacer and armor, the c-pit is now shielded with an additional 6500 durability.

We've seen almost nothing but a commander and the rest of these double doubles being fielded in 2-3 nights of play.

Just getting a tad frustrated with these fotm builds. And no semi-reliable way to drop them, as of yet.

[K0NY]

A fast soldier with some heat seekers is a good way to distract them while the snipers go to work as well. In fact, having a very fast scout with smoke and stuff to draw their fire while you rain down hell upon them is a pretty good strategy too.

Splash damage is a pain, but I don't believe that these builds are insurmountable. Don't be scared to have a dude rush their base with spikes to teach them a lesson either.

[Guido Jones]

I believe the most common legs used are the heaviest Morskoj inverse ones. You add the Saba chip to that, or the Morksoj one, and you've got yourself a pretty fast hound for once carring double doubles.

They don't need to be accurate - even being in the vincinity as they hit caused your gun camera to spin, and gives you AoE damage all over your mech. The gen is over the c-pit, and with a spacer and armor, the c-pit is now shielded with an additional 6500 durability.

We've seen almost nothing but a commander and the rest of these double doubles being fielded in 2-3 nights of play.

Just getting a tad frustrated with these fotm builds. And no semi-reliable way to drop them, as of yet.


The super heavy RJ401's max out at 130ish speed, with a +180 speed chip. I made a mech with to 1501/D's that I bring out for city maps (but I use the HEAT rounds, not HE), so I know the capabilities.

Accuracy does matter - unless they're the AI and can tell exactly where you're going to be, OR you never move around, they won't be able to do much at range, even with the HE rounds. And even then, those cannons suck for bombardment as they are inaccurate.

I don't know, I've played a lot of matches in 2.45, and while those builds are nuisance, they are not the end all be all. When we get beat, it's by people running cannon (anelace) mechs, who have some unbelievable aiming capability to take you out in 2 - 3 volleys.

[Guido Jones]

A fast soldier with some heat seekers is a good way to distract them while the snipers go to work as well.

Missles are a terrible terrible way to kill anybody with front cockpit armor. Since missles always track to the cockpit, they'll expend all their energy against that armor (doing nothing to the mech behind it), while the enemy can pick and choose what to hit on you.

And yes, that's from experience. i ran up to a guy with 3 double missile launchers and one single one a couple days ago. I took 3 volleys to the face with only 10% cockpit total damage because of that front armor.

As long as you can face the person shooting missles at you, missle counters are a waste of weight.

[K0NY]

Guido, I disagree. First of all, your shield does no good if the person with heat seekers aims above or to the side of your hound. The missiles will turn and catch your cockpit without even touching your shield. Second, you must have missed the whole discussion where we explained that any part that's blown up will transfer damage directly to the cockpit. So putting a giant shield in front of your cockpit may initially shield it from the front, but once it's destroyed, it will attract cockpit damage like a magnet.

Third, you'll notice I said heatseekers are a good distraction, not an actual good way of killing the double-doubles. When they are hitting you, it's almost impossible to aim through the gun cams. So while an enemy is scrambling to get clear of heat seekers, other members of your team can take pot shots at him from a distance. This can also work with smoke, if your team has thermals.

I believe shields are less useful than countermeasures. YMMV.

[forgeforsaken]

Xaroc, Mirlin, and I (and then just Xaroc and I) ran into a bunch of Double Doubles tonight and we pretty much came out victorious every round. Always nice when you overcome the cheese. The most annoying thing was they kept taking forever to ready up, like what the hell is an all double double team strategizing?

[Lunch of Kong]

What you do is go for the COMBA win. That's how you would beat me if I were fielding my 128 speed hound with 2x DoubleCannons. But while you were doing that, I would move onto your base, destroying it in seven salvos.

So you would have to attack me while I was busy with your base and stay out of my rotation range.

I think missiles go for the generator. Let's run some tests. :)

[Xaroc]

Xaroc, Mirlin, and I (and then just Xaroc and I) ran into a bunch of Double Doubles tonight and we pretty much came out victorious every round. Always nice when you overcome the cheese. The most annoying thing was they kept taking forever to ready up, like what the hell is an all double double team strategizing?

Yeah, we kicked the crap out of them. My new personal favorite hound has quad clustered and linked Falchion Cannons on one side and a couple of stylets on the other side for trash clearing. Throw in the 6700 durability cockpit and front armor all mounted on RJ-401 legs and you are ready to lay the smack down. Really you can have all the armor you want but when you are being hit by 6800 damage per volley you are going to feel it.

BTW, I do think the proliferation of double doubles is annoying. I don't mind the build if there is one in a group but if it is everyone where is the fun in that?

[Guido Jones]

Guido, I disagree. First of all, your shield does no good if the person with heat seekers aims above or to the side of your hound.

As long as you can face the person shooting missles at you, missle counters are a waste of weight.

And, as I noted, this has worked for me, best illustrated in my ridiculus 21 missles and not dying story above.

[MatthewF]

I don't understand how that's really all that effective, because all they have to do is aim high and the missiles will dive down over your armor. That's what people do to me when I use front-mounted armor. I used to be a huge supporter of the front armor, but now I'm not so sure -- I seem to do equally as well or better without it, and now I use the extra weight for one more gun.

I think missiles go for the generator. Let's run some tests. :)

Let us know how that turns out :)

[Michael Fortson]

My six-missile mech never seemed to have much of a problem with armor or counters (3 Morskov heavy missile launchers on a heavy Tarakian tread). Of course, two enemies and he's out of missiles :)

And then there's the little problem of those damn circling hovercraft......

[forgeforsaken]

Has anyone ever tried to shoot down missiles, maybe with a multishotgun build? I just wonder if it's even possible, would be cool if it is though.

[MatthewF]

I've never seen a missile blow up from anything other than impacts or counter flares, so I'm going with no.

[slantz]

I was fighting 1v1 against a hound that was shooting lots (8?) of small missiles at once.

I was using my 3 machine-gun hound, and shooting straight at him. It did apear that on most salvos I was hitting/destroying some of the missiles on their way over, but it was hard to tell for sure given the chaos.

[Rorschach]

Did anybody wind up paying $10 for the new parts packs? Any parts worth the $1.25 each?

I was on this weekend playing on 2.45, honest Quatoria. Don't kick me out just yet. :)

[Lunch of Kong]

Those were rockets, hiro.

[Guido Jones]

Did anybody wind up paying $10 for the new parts packs? Any parts worth the $1.25 each?

I was on this weekend playing on 2.45, honest Quatoria. Don't kick me out just yet. :)

The only good was the Assault Rifle, which does 3 round burst. The others pretty much sucked.

[Chowhound]

The hex anti-hound rockets are pretty decent.

Thanks for the various tips for taking on double-doubles. I'm sure it just takes focused fire and teamwork, I'm just sick of seeing them in almost every game we play.

[Lunch of Kong]

WOO HOO! I just beat my first 1 vs 2 game. I didn't use a double double, though. I used a triple double and was shelling the hell out of their base before they realized they were going to lose and charged me. Don't charge a triple double-cannon hound.

[Reldan]

Mmmm... I love ordering triple doubles naked animal style.

[Lunch of Kong]

Reldan, did you get into the squad yet?

[Chowhound]

Last night was the biggest ownage we've ever gotten, period. 6 matches against another squad in South Cemo Oil Fields, and we lost every time, each time not even bringing down 1 of their hounds.

We'd start at base 1, they at their base 1, and we would be getting shelled immediately. Go up on the ridge, sniped in the cockpit. Advance through the open towards them, arty would lock us down. Their double double would charge us as we were pinned down, making very short work of us.

I think they just play the same map over and over again, and memorize exactly which cloud formation and elevation to point out to rain down arty on our heads and base from the start. Switching to base 2 didn't help any at all.

Found out later that it was Dead Pain, ranked #2 overall. But we still ended the night ready to quit the game altogether.

[jeffd]

Chowhound: I'm assuming that's how playing a top ranked squad works. They may know just what clouds to fire at, or they may just have their ranges down *really* well. It honestly sounds like they just have some killer tactics and coordination.

[Chowhound]

Yeah, was an exercise in frustration, to say the least. Right now, we still search for missions and join whatever is up. We're wondering if picking a map and learning the bejeebus out of it would be better. Certainly not as much fun though. :(

Still, was an awed amazement of how quickly and well they decimated us each and every time.

[Charles]

That's true in many, many games though. If you run up against a group of people who work together all the time, and know a map, it's going to be hard to compete. I've seen it (and done it) in many games.

[K0NY]

It hurts to be on the recieving end of something like that. I've been there too. I'd just take note of their builds, if you can, and try to learn the tactics to improve your own game.

[Lunch of Kong]

Also, I don't bother with nightvision anymore. I just plick the brightness of my monitor up by 5% and suddenly everything is twilight.

[Lunch of Kong]

I think they just play the same map over and over again, and memorize exactly which cloud formation and elevation to point out to rain down arty on our heads and base from the start.

I've been doing that in Tarakia defending St. Yves harbor. From certain easily locatable spots, I know exactly how much elevation is required to hit northern bases 1, 2 or 3.

Some maps are one-sided like that, where one side's bases are obscured by hills, but another sides is visible.

[Chowhound]

Any idea what condenser usage is for when building a mech? It's pretty much the only stat I have no idea what it's for.

Also, I've seen opponents fire in a tight pattern that barely disperses over distance, whereas mine spread all over the place? Any tips on how to get that concentrated effect?

[Xaroc]

Any idea what condenser usage is for when building a mech? It's pretty much the only stat I have no idea what it's for.

Also, I've seen opponents fire in a tight pattern that barely disperses over distance, whereas mine spread all over the place? Any tips on how to get that concentrated effect?

It is how long the hover components will last before needing to recharge.

As to your second question, make sure the stability of your legs is very high, that is what controls recoil. The Naqas and RJ-401s are both really good for recoil control because of their high stability.

[jeffd]

re tight pattern: you also need to fiddle with the way the weapons are mounted - e.g. the "angle" they're mounted at. Mounting them all upright will not give you a tight pattern, no matter how good your stability is.

[quatoria]

re tight pattern: you also need to fiddle with the way the weapons are mounted - e.g. the "angle" they're mounted at. Mounting them all upright will not give you a tight pattern, no matter how good your stability is.

That's, ah, not necessarily true.

[K0NY]

There are certain system chips that also help you get tight groupings and almost zero recoil effect even with heavy cannons, howitzers or sniper cannons. I have a sniper hound with two sets of three sniper cannons, mounted on reverse jointed legs that has amazing accuracy.

[quatoria]

There are certain system chips that also help you get tight groupings and almost zero recoil effect even with heavy cannons, howitzers or sniper cannons. I have a sniper hound with two sets of three sniper cannons, mounted on reverse jointed legs that has amazing accuracy.

The trick is to utterly ignore aiming stability, in favor of stability. Weapon chips are nearly pointless, aside from the number of guns they allow you to use - my most accurate snipers and artillery hounds use the 1 slot, 35 aim stability chips. The only thing aim stability does, despite the help file lying to you about it, is compensate for the recoil of nearby shell impacts.

[Jaysun]

Since this thread has kind of diverged and I'd rather not created another, I was wondering if anyone was still playing this game. A friend of mine and I picked it up and we've been getting our asses handed to us in MP. Was wondering if there was room in any squads for us to join/people to play with, because it seems like it would be a lot more fun with more people.

[EvilTodd]

As a related question to the last post, what's the ettiquette for joining squads? Is there an Xobx Live squad recruitment forum I don't see, or do I just find a squad in the list and join, and hope for the best?

Yeah, I'm a Live newb.