Whither Carmageddon?

[forgeforsaken]

So the combination of watching previews for Dead Rising, and then playing the demo for Saints Row and running over people and sending them flying, especially some old person with a walker, got me nostalgic for Carmageddon.
I thought Stainless did a good job with the first two, I wasn't so enamored with the third by a different dev though. Does this series stand any chance of revival on a next gen platform? Would they still be able to get away with mowing down people, or would they need to zombify/robotify it like they did for some of the regional versions? I suppose a lot of that would depend on the art style they took with the game. I also kind of wonder if the GTA style games would make Carmageddon somewhat redundant, where you can go on a driving rampage in them, but it still isn't quite the same IMO.

[Papageno]

Another vote for a revival of the series. I wish the second game had dispensed with the missions and brought back the cops (except this time had ones that went after the AI drivers as well as the player). One of my favorite memories is Carmageddon 1 was pushing a cop APC off the top of a parking garage.

[steve]

Carmageddon 2 is one of my top 10 games of all-time, I think.

Carmageddon 4 has been announced, but seems stuck in development hell.

[ElGuapo]

Paging Jack Thompson, Paging Jack Thompson!

Jack Thompson, to the frivolous court suit, please!

[tromik]

I loved Carmageddon. I think it was the second level in the original, with the docks, and I would go as fast as possibly to wards the end of the dock, turn the wheel, spin the tires, go completely sideways, hit forty people, slam into the railing/bumper/wall-thing at the end, get airborne, do a 1040*+ spin, and then land in the water.

[Podunk]

Aw, you guys are going to bring a nostalgic little tear to my eye. Has anyone tried to run Carmageddon 2 in XP?

[Sam Jones]

Carmageddon 1 for the win. I loved that game, and played it for years. The sequels never did it for me nearly as much. The Splat Pack expansion for the first game had some great levels, including one with an objective of killing cows, called "Beef Curtains". Make no mistake, it's curtains for beef!

TDR2000 (Carmageddon 3) wasn't nearly as bad as its reputation. I actually liked it more than C2. I think they rebalanced it a bit to avoid the situation where you could build up 20 mins of clock time. It was better for that, at least.

[BobJustBob]

Making games harder is never a good thing. I played and finished all three Carmageddon games and loved them all, but 2 was by far the best. I tried to get it running under Win2k about a year ago and I don't think I was ever successful.

I still have a couple dozen videos I created from replays in C2.

[Angrycoder]

Carmeggedon with todays physics engines would be pretty neat. However, even if the game was made in a super cartoony over the top style it would still bring down more heat than GTA and Postal combined.

[Podunk]

Yeah, but the 20 minutes of clock time in C2 was awesome because then you got to explore around for all the power-ups tucked into all those random almost-inaccessible corners of the map. C2 was great for the exploration and the carnage, not the racing. That's why I didn't like C3: it seriously restricted carnage and exploration (the fun parts) due to an unforgiving clock that actually required you to hit checkpoints.

[spiffy]

I sadly missed the Carmaggeddon series, but I was under the impression Twisted Metal had been it's spiritual successor.. From your descriptions I guess I'm pretty wrong. Dang. Where can I get this carmaggeddon?!

[Moore]

I'd prefer a dead rising style game (sequel?!) in a saintsrow/gta style city so I can run over some zombies.

I never liked carmageddon for the stupidest reason: I thought it should have been Death Race 2000 instead of their take on the same thing, so I wrote it off and never really played it much.

[SolomonGrundy]

In carmageddon 1- did anyone ever actually pull off that loop? I always lost steam at the top . Not that it mattered- I think I never completed a race- I always just took out all my opponents. Ah the elctro-bastard ray...

The Docks- yeah rackin up the points there.
There was a patch to disable the missions in Carma 2, which made it much more enjoyable. My favorite car was the Dodge with the fan blades in the front- and yes they actually worked on chopping people up.

http://www.hoho.nu/carmageddon2/
XP patch and demo on this page.

[spiffy]

Holy shit. I'm sorry to perhaps derail here, but anybody remember Death Rally (1996 I think?) . Top-down post apocalyptic racing with all manner of weapons, guns, upgrades and a challenging career and memorable opponents. Controls played like a dream too. Cameo by Duke Nuke'em. Why is there not a Death Rally 6 right now?

[steve]

I pretty much played the Carmageddon games as open-ended carnage simulators. I raced for a bit, got way ahead of everyone, and then just beat the shit out of everyone else. Bouncy bouncy.

The damage and collision detection and physics in that game were off the charts; I talked to David Kaemmer of Papyrus around the release of Carmageddon 2, and even they were impressed.

I believe the issue with Carm 2 and modern machines is that it was 3dfx-only for acceleration. You need to run it in software mode.

[Podunk]

I believe the issue with Carm 2 and modern machines is that it was 3dfx-only for acceleration. You need to run it in software mode.

People in the Carm community seem to have had good success with zeckenzack's glide wrapper. (http://www.cwaboard.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB11&Number=78084&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1)

Edit: and here (http://www.planetmaim.com/tutorial-c2-xp.php) is a good tutorial for getting C2 running in XP.

[simoniker]

There's a perfect conversion of Carmageddon available for the, uhh, Gizmondo! Except, of course, it was never released, and we only got copies through Gizmondo's U.S. PR agency. I think it might have got leaked online after someone worked on the Giz's copy protection? Nonetheless, I was all tingly when I saw it.

Also, Carmageddon 2 multiplayer tagteam mode over LAN with experienced players = complete genius, as I recall.

[tromik]

In carmageddon 1- did anyone ever actually pull off that loop? I always lost steam at the top . Not that it mattered- I think I never completed a race- I always just took out all my opponents. Ah the elctro-bastard ray...
The loop no stage three or four? With the big field next to it with all the cows? Nope, don't remeber ever making it.

The Docks- yeah rackin up the points there.
The docks were the best.

Did Camag actually have a physics engine running underneath it or something? I think it would be pretty cool is someone just used the Halo engine to make a Camag-like game.

[Robert Sharp]

So, was it better than Twisted Metal 2? I never played Carmaggedon. I take it the series is pretty old, from your comments. I must have just missed out on it.

[steve]

So, was it better than Twisted Metal 2? I never played Carmaggedon. I take it the series is pretty old, from your comments. I must have just missed out on it.
I was never a big fan of Twisted Metal, but Carmageddon had it beat in any number of ways: Better car modeling, better damage modeling, a more open-ended structure... sorta, and an even more twisted sense of humor. These games were funny, particularly the power-ups. "Electo Bastard Ray," (or whatever it was), "Bouncy Bouncy"... I wish I could remember more of them.

And you had people begging in front of your car as you mowed them down. And you left bloody tracks. And it made a horrible "squish" sound. Ooh, you got a "Piledriver" bonus for ramming someone into a wall.

[BobJustBob]

So, was it better than Twisted Metal 2? I never played Carmaggedon. I take it the series is pretty old, from your comments. I must have just missed out on it.

Then you're in luck!

[Moore]

Holy shit. I'm sorry to perhaps derail here, but anybody remember Death Rally (1996 I think?) . Top-down post apocalyptic racing with all manner of weapons, guns, upgrades and a challenging career and memorable opponents. Controls played like a dream too. Cameo by Duke Nuke'em. Why is there not a Death Rally 6 right now?


I do and I really wish there was some hope of titles like this and duke2d and jazz jack rabbit and halloween harry etc.. on xbox live arcade. I know consoles and arcades were the big shit for 2d action games, but there was some really nice PC stuff that could still be rgeat today with online multi.....

[Podunk]

Hey, Death Rally was developed by Remedy, right? Back in the pre-Max Payne days? I might have to track that down and take it for a spin.

[Marcin]

Hey, Death Rally was developed by Remedy, right? Back in the pre-Max Payne days? I might have to track that down and take it for a spin.

You can get Karnaaj Rally (http://www.wickedtoast.com/screen.php?t=a&id=62&w=1), a complete ripof...err, remake of Death Rally, for the GBA. Works quite well, although the FOV is a bit less than on the PC.

[Glycerine]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1dUPkk6vOk

[forgeforsaken]

Carmageddon was pretty different from the Twisted Metals. You really didn't have ranged weapons on the cars, it was all about ramming things at full speed. Also a very very large focus on the game was running over pedestrians to extend your time and score points. There were even style bonuses for the number you got and how you hit them, I used to love handbraking and slamming the side into the pedestrians and a wall, think that was called a piledriver though I kind of forget. I do remember getting "cunning stunt" bonuses though for flipping through the air. The game really did have a good phsysics engine for the cars, and C2 added that for the peds when the got 3d modelled.

[tromik]

The replay feature was definatlely one of the coolest part of the Carmageddeon games.

[scharmers]

Carmageddon 1 was amazingly ahead of its time in damage modelling and physics. Superb, superb game.

[Hump]

I think GTA 3 on up owes more to Carmageddon than Rockstar acknowledges.

[Jason McCullough]

I have fond memories of the ice level in 2. The moose kind of shook their heads in this "noooo don't run over me" thing. Getting parts stuck on the grille never got old.

[Podunk]

I think GTA 3 on up owes more to Carmageddon than Rockstar acknowledges.

Yeah, agreed 100%. I think it's impossible to play Carmageddon and GTA 3 and not see the influence. It's pretty blatant.

[steve]

Yeah, agreed 100%. I think it's impossible to play Carmageddon and GTA 3 and not see the influence. It's pretty blatant.
Well, that may be true. But at the same time, GTA 3 was a remake of the original 2D, top-down GTA. Both Carmageddon and the original GTA came out in 1997.

[Podunk]

Well, that may be true. But at the same time, GTA 3 was a remake of the original 2D, top-down GTA. Both Carmageddon and the original GTA came out in 1997.

Sure, but the original GTA didn't play anything like Carmageddon. GTA 3, on the other hand, plays a lot like it once you get into a vehicle. Well, minus the Electro Bastard Rays and Repulsificators and such.

[SolomonGrundy]

You know you gotta love a game where you can bounce so high into the sky you have time to go to the bathroom, get a soda and have a smoke before you land on the ground again....I know bouncy bouncy was suppost to be a bad thing, but if you used it right you could rack up serious points.

Twisted Metal? Blech not even close.

Death Rally - yep still have it...one of the few games that wasn't stolen. I'm sure there is a demo out there somewhere...great little game.

Carma had so many things going for it...the maps were HUGE. The repair key allowed you to do crazy ass stupid things like driving off cliffs at 200 mph.
the ammount of bonuses you could get was great- piledriver, splatter, and opening your door to wipe out a few people was also one...Sick to think I would push people around without killing them in Carma 2 to line up a huge electro bastard combo...I'm so ashamed.
I admit I never played this game with anyone else around.
Jason - hahah- forgot about that , but I know exactly what you are talking about 'Moo..Noooooo'

[steve]

Sure, but the original GTA didn't play anything like Carmageddon. GTA 3, on the other hand, plays a lot like it once you get into a vehicle. Well, minus the Electro Bastard Rays and Repulsificators and such.
Of course they didn't play the same; one was 3D, the other was 2D. Even if the gameplay was similar, they felt totally different.

I played the top-down GTA exactly like I played GTA 3 and Carmageddon. I often ignored the actual game and just did crazy stupid things.

[olaf]

Oh hell yeah the first two were great. Never played the third.

olaf

[Podunk]

Of course they didn't play the same; one was 3D, the other was 2D. Even if the gameplay was similar, they felt totally different.

Sure, and once GTA went to 3D there were elements of the gameplay that felt strikingly similar. That's all I'm saying. I suppose the similarities between the 3D GTA games and Carmageddon could just be chalked up to convergent evolution. I mean, how do you do a 3rd person 3D action game that features vehicles and allows you to mow down pedestrians by the grillion without invoking a little bit of Carmageddon?

[Papageno]

I really enjoyed the "destroy your opponents" aspect of the races in Carma 1, as well as the cops. +1 for mention of the physics of the vehicles as far back as Carma 1.

BTW, were there cops in TDR 2000 (Carma 3)? I never did pick that up.

[Robert Sharp]

Then you're in luck!

Or I would be, if you hadn't already pointed out that it doesn't run in XP ;)

[Podunk]

But it does run in XP.

People in the Carm community seem to have had good success with zeckenzack's glide wrapper. (http://www.cwaboard.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB11&Number=78084&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1)

Edit: and here (http://www.planetmaim.com/tutorial-c2-xp.php) is a good tutorial for getting C2 running in XP.

[Robert Sharp]

Then I better get to work on this one! I seem to have all three versions...imagine that. Should I only play 2?

[azzl]

I remember driving in to work late and bleary after an all-night Carmageddon session, and briefly thinking I could get more time by running over the pedestrians on the sidewalk.

Hm...maybe I should send this anecdote to Jack Thompson...

[Podunk]

Then I better get to work on this one! I seem to have all three versions...imagine that. Should I only play 2?

I like 2 the best, but lots of people prefer the first game. 3 is not terrible, but not really much fun compared to the other two.

[Kalle]

I remember that I actually looked for (and found) a hack to disable the timer in the Carmaggeddon 2 demo. That's how much I played it before I could get the full game. The powerups, the insane physics, the SPLAT sounds, I loved everything about the game. Few games have come so close to capturing the sheer joy of sociopathic carnage on a screen.

[John Sansker]

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_vg/102-5081562-9486507?url=search-alias%3Dvideogames&field-keywords=carmageddon&Go.x=0&Go.y=0&Go=Go

May hafta order these, though I still have the 3rd one around here somewhere.

[ExecutionerFive]

Has anyone ever gotten the original Carmageddon to run in XP? If so, please share :).

[Hump]

Of course they didn't play the same; one was 3D, the other was 2D. Even if the gameplay was similar, they felt totally different.

I played the top-down GTA exactly like I played GTA 3 and Carmageddon. I often ignored the actual game and just did crazy stupid things.

It goes beyond simply the move from 2d to 3d. For instance pulling off stunts in the cars having text pop-up with a naming convention and points was a Carmageddon hallmark. When I first saw it in GTA3 it was like Deja-vu. The whole structure of the environments, how missions were triggered etc that were hailed in GTA3 had its equivilent in Carmageddon 1 & 2

[steve]

It goes beyond simply the move from 2d to 3d. For instance pulling off stunts in the cars having text pop-up with a naming convention and points was a Carmageddon hallmark. When I first saw it in GTA3 it was like Deja-vu. The whole structure of the environments, how missions were triggered etc that were hailed in GTA3 had its equivilent in Carmageddon 1 & 2
While you can give Carmageddon credit for doing them first in 3D, the original GTA had all of those pop-ups too, and crazy bonuses, and secrets, etc. And it was released around the same time as Carmageddon.

http://gtauniverse0.tripod.com//sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/elvis-large.jpg
http://www.mobygames.com/images/i/06/43/181943.png

(You'll need to copy/paste the first.)

[mandarin]

Did anyone ever beat a level by killing all of the pedestrians? It required hobby-levels of time investment.

Also, Towmeister was amazing in the first Carmageddon. He was all bulbous and floaty after that, like so much engorged American belly :/

[SolomonGrundy]

mandarin I tried, but I always got bored or pissed at the other cars and just wiped them out..
I spent so much time working out crazy deathtraps with the boulders in 2. Did it again at lunch on Friday...line those suckers up, and lookie- a very convienent bouncy bouncy...there always seems to be one near the boulders...and yes you get points for everything the boulders that you moved kill.

[pg]

I won quit a few by killing all the pedestrians. The key is getting powerups specifically the electro-bastard ray(or whatever it was), then racing through as many areas as possible. You could get hundreds of kills in a minute if you had a good route. Obviously hunting down the last few guys could be annoying but they usually showed up on the map(via powerups or not?), but you would have so much time by all the previous kills that it won't be hard.