Bub's NWN piece at GDR

[Jason Lutes]

I rarely read editorial writing at game sites, but I enjoyed Andrew's NWN piece at Games Domain: http://www.gamesdomain.com/gdreview/depart/jul02/rpg_nwn.html

Made me laugh a lot while reading it. Plus, he's conducting an informal contest for best custom 1-hour, single-player module, so there's some incentive for anyone else out there who's tinkering away.

[Mark Asher]

Yeah, that was a nice piece. Andrew did a good job of conveying the somewhat insurmountable differences between PNP and NWN.

Andrew wants more henchman. I say why stop there? I want a group that I can control like I did in BG. I hope Bioware has an expansion that adds that capability. Then we'd see some really cool single player mods.

[Qenan]

I rarely read editorial writing at game sites, but I enjoyed Andrew's NWN piece at Games Domain: http://www.gamesdomain.com/gdreview/depart/jul02/rpg_nwn.html


Thanks for the link; I enjoyed it. I don't think anything could match the experience of playing with your friends and eating pizza, but he did a good job of pointing out NWN's strengths, too. One of these days it will get cheap enough that I'll take a chance on it...

[Bub, Andrew]

Thanks for the kind words guys, I'm glad that column got some notice.
I was expecting more negative emails but the response has been mostly agreement. FWIW I'm glad Bioware tossed the campaign in there, and I do think the potential is there in spades. I'm hoping for some good modules. I also grant that Bioware wasn't trying to remake BG2 or emulate D&D in single player. I think they mostly hit what they were shooting for, PnP on the PC (single player, as I recall, wasn't part of the original feature set). The problem really is that a true PnP experience isn't actually possible on the PC, arguably, beyond what they achieved.

In case anyone missed it, at the bottom of the column GDR promised a free game (I'll pull whatever weight I have to make sure it's a good one) to the best 1-hour single player module that gets submitted to us. A 1-hour adventure shouldn't be too hard to build, I think... maybe a pure Thief mission, a "sneak in and assassinate the bad guy" quest, a great encounter, or just something really freaking weird. A good short story, in other words... Spread the word if you know any builders and, um, Mr. Lutes... hurry up!

[James Galimo]

Yeah, I've got to agree with you, Bub, on just about everything (especially the part about Minsc). He should've been available. I'd have like to have seen Drizzt in there, as well. That was a nice touch from the original Baldur's Gate.

Actually, what Bioware should have done was made Baldur's Gate 3, only in 3D. Well. Maybe not BG3 exactly. The story was getting tired by the end. It should have been a new game with a 3D infinity engine. They would have gotten far less criticism. Especially the party critique. I've read countless articles and posts, wishing you could control a party.

I'd like to know how many people actually play the game on a LAN in regular weekly sessions. My roommate was planning a campaign for some friends of ours. Unfortunately, Warcraft 3 came out. The only way practically to even talk to him now, is by logging on to battlenet. So much for the campaign. There may be some a few groups out there who are playing it in a campaign, but I'll believe when I see it.


"Don't... poke... Drizzt! It is entirely unsociable."

-Drizzt Do'Urden
Baldur Gate

[Mark Asher]

"Actually, what Bioware should have done was made Baldur's Gate 3, only in 3D. Well. Maybe not BG3 exactly. The story was getting tired by the end. It should have been a new game with a 3D infinity engine. They would have gotten far less criticism. Especially the party critique. I've read countless articles and posts, wishing you could control a party."

The only big difference between NWN and BG is the lack of a party to control.

The emphasis was on the multiplayer/DM stuff when the game was in the early stages. The single player game was just going to be a bunch of modules that connected to tell a story, but I was told that the player could play them in any order if the player wasn't interested in the story. That was several years ago when the game was officially announced at Gen Con. Obviously, the focus shifted a bit, though the multiplayer/DM stuff is still a big part of the game.

The editor's been a big hit, too. There appear to be well over 100 modules to download at Neverwinter Vault. I've played a couple that have been fun.

[Don Quixote]

I'd like to know how many people actually play the game on a LAN in regular weekly sessions

well, that was the plan- I've got a couple of friends who would be interested, but after buying a copy the other day, and installing it on my wife's and my computers, I found that each LAN copy needs it's own unique CD key to connect- and it dials in to the official bioware servers to verify the game EVEN WHEN ONLY PLAYING ON A LAN. I understand that piracy is a problem, but hell, this is just not cool. I am actually considering returning the game, this makes me so angry.

And while I'm ranting, that isn't the only thing about the game that annoys me. The pathfinding is wretched, which shouldn't be the case considering that the engine is really only 2D, with walkable grids on the tiles and such. The graphics are definately sub-par, and only having one party member for single player does suck. As a comparison, Vampire (a similar game that attempted to do similar things) came out 2+ years ago, and it still has amazing graphics, better pathfinding, and larger parties. GRRR.

I just wish Nihilistic had sold the game, and then worked on refining the toolset a bit for an expansion (adding a decent conversation editor, perhaps a new version of QERadiant that worked more with cut and paste buildings- more like the tiles in NWN, etc.)- the potential was soo much greater for that game. Anyone know why they didn't do any expansions for it? From what I remember, it sold pretty well, and got decent reviews... Hell I still see it for mostlty full price on the shelves at Best Buy today.

[mtkafka]

Another problenm I have with NWN, besides the non party in solo and the less-than pnp feel online (almost impossible), the continuity of your character is less with all these modules around. Would have been cool if NWN had an easier way to plugin the modules into the main campaign like MW. Its possible to do that in NWN already, but the way the editor is set up, it seems to focus mainly on small modules sizes...

Otherwise, I stil think theres alot of unseen depth to NWN's combat and spell system... probably the deepest of any tactical type 3d game (except maybe for Freedom Force). All they need to do now is release an expansion that adds the stuff people want, and shopws the strengths of the engine. Also the ability to control henchman like you control your character would be a great addition, and maybe a first person view!

etc

[Mark Asher]

"Another problenm I have with NWN, besides the non party in solo and the less-than pnp feel online (almost impossible), the continuity of your character is less with all these modules around."

Interesting observation. I've also had that feeling. I read about a mod at NWN Vault and it says, "For levels 10-12 solo" and I don't have a 10-12 character. I can use one of the level-up mods to quickly create a level 10-12 charater, but it just doesn't feel right. I don't have any personal investment in the character the way I do when I build the character from level 1 onward.

[Bub, Andrew]

"Interesting observation. I've also had that feeling. --snip-- I don't have any personal investment in the character the way I do when I build the character from level 1 onward.

Well, here's where it helps simulate one aspect of PnP. Like at Gen Con, or any tourney, you can sign up for a handful of adventures. Each has it's own character requirements. You bring a handful of characters to mix and match. Often, in situations like this, the DM hands you your character and you go from there. Continuity is not important. Where you get continuity is with a DM and a homespun campaign.

Consider it the Short Story format for RPG gaming.