Floyd Landis Tour de France Doping Scandal

[SpoofyChop]

Growing up in SE Pennsylvania I knew guys like Floyd Landis. Lanky mennonite kids whose moms (or grandmoms) wore little bonnets and plain dresses and who always drove black cars because any other color was too flashy. Since times were changing a lot of these kids were already destined to grow up to be much more worldly than their parents and grandparent.

If he can't clear his name through some miraculous series of tests that demonstrate that his Testosterone:Epitestosterone ratio is just naturally fubar, fubar because of the cortisone he take for his hip, or fubar because of some other reason, it's going to be a tough blow for Lancaster County PA.

It's also likely to really kill the credibility of the Tour and professional cycling in general (what's left of it.)

[Old Man Gravy]

I figure he probably binged on testosterone during Rumspringa.

[Fugitive]

It certainly shatters a lot of confidence in the sport when you combine this with the earlier controversy, where most of the other big names from previous years got caught up in that Spanish doping scandal. From here on there'll be a cloud of suspicion over a field of nobodies, and who cares about that...

[Dirt]

The sport suffers because some dumbfuck used dope? Baseball wouldn't be broadcast anymore if that were true.

[LarryLard]

It's also likely to really kill the credibility of the Tour and professional cycling in general (what's left of it.)

Your parenthetical remark is spot on. How anyone can believe that a human body is capable of doing even one stage of the Tour, let alone the whole thing, without significant chemical aid, is beyond me. Really it's just a game now between the authorities and the chemists, with the cyclists as game pieces.

[Dave47]

Your parenthetical remark is spot on. How anyone can believe that a human body is capable of doing even one stage of the Tour, let alone the whole thing, without significant chemical aid, is beyond me.
Doping is a huge problem in cycling, but the assertion that a Tour stage (or even a complete Tour) is physically impossible without drugs is flat-out wrong.

[Glenn]

At the speed that they're going at now, I'm pretty sure it is physically impossible without drugs.

[Squirrel Killer]

Yes, even for Cancer Boy.
You do know how Lance won right? He sat in the draft for 16 stages to save his energy for the last climb on two mountain stages and the time trials. It's no stroll on the beach, but any team with a great time trialist who can climb well and didn't care about individual stages could so the same.

[VegasRobb]

Well, I hope he's cleared. He's doing and saying all the right things. I'm just waiting for photos of him proclaiming his innocence from a mountaintop.

[Robert Sharp]

The sport suffers because some dumbfuck used dope? Baseball wouldn't be broadcast anymore if that were true.

Different sport. In this case, it would suffer, yes, especially in the U.S. It's not like the U.S. is big into cycling anyway. So unlike baseball, where there is a nice history to the game, cycling needs every edge it can get.

[antlers]

I was inclined to give Landis the benefit of the doubt (dehydration, bad test) until he claimed he has a naturally high testosterone level. That's weaselly. If you're really innocent, you'd just say you were sure the first test was mistaken, because you can't imagine how the level would be that high.

[Kalle]

Considering that apparantly Landis has refused to take a stance against doping when asked earlier, I have a hard time thinking he's clean.

[caesarbear]

The sport suffers because some dumbfuck used dope? Baseball wouldn't be broadcast anymore if that were true.
You don't think Palmeiro destroyed what the Baltimore Orioles where putting together last year? They went from contender to pathetic.

[Anders Hallin]

Yes, the sport as a whole suffers, and Europeans are often shocked and outraged that American leagues don't care enough about doping.

[caesarbear]

Yes, the sport as a whole suffers, and Europeans are often shocked and outraged that American leagues don't care enough about doping.
What, like this is only an American problem? WTF? Soccer in Europe has it's ugly history of doping. The USADA just nailed Justin Gatlin, the american 100 meter world record holder for doping. It's only baseball that is resisting very strict doping regulations and they are getting tremendous heat for it. Maybe Europe ought to look at itself instead of feigning shock when looking across the Atlantic.

[Toddy]

Some people look at doping as an American problem because the US has a track record of not going after doping cases. While the rest of the world started cracking down on doping in sport after the Ben Johnson scandal in 1988, the US ignored the problem for years afterward and had a laughable out-of-competition testing program. The US also covered up doping results. Carl Lewis was nailed three times by the USOC before the Olympics in 1988, yet we never heard anything about that until Lewis admitted this in 2003. The USOC covered the whole thing up and ruled that Lewis was taking herbal supplements (herbal supplements believed to be masking agents for steroids, but we won't get into that).

There was a lot of anger about all of this in Canada, for obvious reasons. Even now, sports doping stories in the US seem to get big play here, and I think that goes right back to 1988. A lot of people believe that Johnson was just the one caught, and that the whole field of top track and field athletes in the late 80s were juiced.

[CSL]

Wasn't Landis on some sort of medication for his hip - and couldn't that boost his levels?

[deccan]

Bah, they should just legalize all performances enhancers. Then sports would get a lot more interesting.

Disclaimer: speaking as a dork who is totally not into sports. Insert tongue-in-cheek smiley here.

[Aleck]

You don't think Palmeiro destroyed what the Baltimore Orioles where putting together last year? They went from contender to pathetic.

He he he... Baltimore a contender.

C-bear, I think you made me wet myself.

He he he...

[SpoofyChop]

Wasn't Landis on some sort of medication for his hip - and couldn't that boost his levels?

He was allowed to take Cortisone shots for his bum hip, not sure whether this could have caused the problem or not.

[Anders Hallin]

What, like this is only an American problem? WTF?
Who said that?
Doping is a huge, worldwide problem, just look at China a few years ago, Greece, the entire Eastern European legacy... It's just that when American penalties are like a tenth of the rest of the world, it's seen as a bit strange.

[Bill Dungsroman]

Yeah, but in cycling and the French's obsession with proving Lance guilty, it sure makes me think he's not. Or, he's just the smartest cheater ever. Just because somebody is good or great, they must be cheating? Although, IMO he could have taken a more passive stance whenever he got accused. Don't you be doin' no Rafael Palmiero fingerpointin'!

[Nellie]

Maybe Europe ought to look at itself instead of feigning shock when looking across the Atlantic.

Football certainly needs to sort itself out. Ferdinand escaped with an 8month ban for "forgetting" to attend a drugs test, any other sport and he'd have been hit with an instant 2 year ban.

Though most footballers seem to fail for cocaine use more than any performance enhancers.

[Squirrel Killer]

Bye Floyd (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/01/sports/othersports/01landis.html?ei=5065&en=62f8b57a3bf5609d&ex=1155096000&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print).

[Bill Dungsroman]

He was allowed to take Cortisone shots for his bum hip, not sure whether this could have caused the problem or not.
Not according to what the test was looking for, exogenous testosterone level.

[Shadarr]

Landis won the Tour largely on the strength of one stage where he made up an 8 minute deficit, which is almost unheard of, and then he also tested positive in a sample taken after that very stage. I don't believe in those sorts of coincidences. I believe in common sense.

Common sense says that when a swimmer grows 2 inches at age 26, he's taking HGH. Common sense says Barry Bonds didn't go from a scrawny little Pirate outfielder to a lumbering hulk whose neck is actually thicker than his head without a little vitamin S. Common sense also says that when nobody in the NHL is testing positive, it's not proof that nobody's using, it's proof that the tests are ineffective.

Heck, a number of former NHL players have come out and said that every enforcer in the league uses steroids. Jose Canseco wrote a book where he named names, and yet somehow people still choose to stick their heads in the sand and pretend that guys can put on 20 pounds of muscle in the offseason just by eating right and exercising. The reality is that doping is not a danger to sports leagues, but star players testing positive for doping is.

[Squirrel Killer]

From MSNBC's Sports front page regarding the US Basketball team...
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/6236/stghzworldbeaters150pha8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[SpoofyChop]

Well since the B sample came back positive for synthetic testosterone it looks like Floyd is in deep doo-doo.

I really wish I could believe his current explanation that there's an "agenda" at these anti-doping agencies to get him but it's hard to imagine that somebody squirted some testosterone into his pee cup to frame him.

[Nellie]

The only person I believe so far in the "agenda" stakes is Armstrong. If he isn't still, at one point he was the most drug tested athelete in history and despite the inuendo that still floats around about him he's apparently passed every test going. Though with cycling in the state it's in I'm not surprised that he's still accused of being a cheat.

[Dave Markell]

Your parenthetical remark is spot on. How anyone can believe that a human body is capable of doing even one stage of the Tour, let alone the whole thing, without significant chemical aid, is beyond me.

The Tour began in 1903. Unless you count exotic substances like "food" and "water" as chemical aid, I think they somehow managed to complete the whole thing without drugs or doping.

[Kalle]

Yeah, people are out to get him. Really. Just like people are out to get Justin Gatlin and his steroid-dealing coach too.

[prolix]

"I put in more than 20,000 kilometers of training for the Tour. I won the Tour of California, Paris-Nice and the Tour de Georgia," Landis said. "I was tested eight times at the Tour de France, four times before that stage and three times after, including three blood tests.

"Only one came back positive. Nobody in their right mind would take testosterone just once. It doesn't work that way."
Well, what about this? Seems like a fairly compelling argument.

[SpoofyChop]

Well, what about this? Seems like a fairly compelling argument.

Yeah...I read that and I'd certainly like to believe it but this article (http://blogcritics.org/archives/2006/08/07/121819.php) seems to shoot a lot of holes into the theory.

[Squirrel Killer]

Well, what about this? Seems like a fairly compelling argument.
There are some theories that one-time usage would give a performance advantage but you're right, as commonly accepted, it is a fairly compelling argument. Also, why would you dope, then go out and ride the stage of a lifetime knowing that as stage winner, you'd get tested? But then again, having both samples contain synthetic testosterone is a fairly compelling argument as well.

My theory, based on absolutely nothing, is that if you looked for synthetic testosterone in all his other tests, you'd find it. I'd guess someone was regulating Landis' testosterone levels just enough to boost performance and still fly under the 4:1 ratio, but bonking on stage 16 threw his body chemistry out of whack. Maybe someone with any real knowledge in the field can tell me if I'm barking up the wrong tree.