US Gov. to citizens: We are too incompetent to evacuate you in a timely manner

[arctangent]

U.S. Rescue Bogs Down in Lebanon (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-evacuate18jul18,0,4382034.story)

Thousands of Americans whose vacations and business trips to Lebanon have degenerated with sickening speed into stints in a battle zone remained stranded here under Israeli bombardment Monday, their frustration and anger mounting because the U.S. government hasn't gotten them out faster.

Waiting around Beirut with bags packed and fingers crossed, U.S. citizens derided the embassy for busy phone lines, a lack of information and gnawing uncertainty over when and whether they will get out. Hundreds were expected to be shipped to Cyprus today, but how long the full evacuation will take remains uncertain.

The frustration has been intensified by news that other countries have already pulled many of their citizens out of Lebanon, efficiently and free of cost. A ferry chartered by the French government carried about 800 of its citizens and several dozen Americans to Cyprus on Monday. The U.S. military evacuated about 60 Americans by helicopter Sunday and Monday.

Other nations have packed people into rented tour buses and driven them over the mountains to Syria. The U.S. State Department has warned Americans against traveling to Syria.

The main U.S. evacuation plan involves a Pentagon-contracted cruise ship, the Orient Queen, due to arrive in Lebanon today to ferry people to Cyprus. The ship can carry about 750 passengers for the five-hour trip. Defense Department officials said other private ships were likely to be hired as well.

Americans have been told to wait for a telephone call that could come in hours — or days. They've also been told they can't board a ship unless they've signed a contract agreeing to repay the U.S. government for the price of their evacuation.

The rules have angered Americans who are already fatigued and nervous after days of explosions. "I'm freaked out that our government is treating us this way," snapped a Rutgers University student who had been studying Arabic at the American University of Beirut. She declined to give her name for fear she would be taken off the passenger list in retribution for criticizing the evacuation effort.

"Are we a Third World country or what?" she said.

Female students from the American University of Beirut, who had been huddled on the ground floor of their dormitory in case of missile strikes, said they were instructed to take a blanket and a three-day supply of food to Cyprus. They were panicked at the notion of sleeping on the street in a strange country.

[Enidigm]

Welcome to the Federal gov't under Bush administration!

BTW this has been happening for the last 4 years.

Also, i was going to make an example between cronyism and inefficiency - but i won't :)

[Matthew Gallant]

The question is how will Republicans make it all Ray Nagin's fault?

[Mehrunes]

Welcome to the Federal gov't under Bush administration!

Hey, this administration may have failed at every test of it's ability perform most of it's basic duties. But you can't ignore the fact that they've succeeded at fulfilling their most sacred duty of all, putting a stop to gay marriage!

[Ben Sones]

750 passengers per trip? I'm not sure how many are evacuating, but aren't there something like 25,000 US citizens in Lebanon?

[Qenan]

Hey, this administration may have failed at every test of it's ability perform most of it's basic duties. But you can't ignore the fact that they've succeeded at fulfilling their most sacred duty of all, putting a stop to gay marriage!

Next up: A constitutional amendment to prevent the 3 flag-burnings that occur every year.

[arctangent]

750 passengers per trip? I'm not sure how many are evacuating, but aren't there something like 25,000 US citizens in Lebanon?

Assuming two 10 hour round-trips a day, that would be about 16 days.

One hopes that more ships will be involved, but hey, this is the Bush administration, whose motto is "Everything costs more and takes longer".

[Moore]

Maybe they are hoping that some wont sign the bill, so they can leave them? Or that all but 750 will be dead by the time they bother to get the ship there?

[SlyFrog]

Man, Bush really should have switched Lebanese Embassy phone companies back when Al-Krahetka offered him unlimited night and weekend minutes. Doesn't this guy do anything right?

[Robert Sharp]

This is ugly. We're the freakin U.S.!! If anyone can get its citizens out of a country fast and freely, it should be us. This is embarrassing.

[Lizard_King]

What happened to the good old days of take no prisoners extracts? It troubles me that Rules Of Engagement has passed from merely being a bad movie fraught with idiot pandering to being one that in no way reflects American procedures any longer.

[forgeforsaken]

This is ugly. We're the freakin U.S.!! If anyone can get its citizens out of a country fast and freely, it should be us. This is embarrassing.

Embarrassing but hardly surprising these days where we couldnt even get people to safety in a timely manner that were in our own country.

[Linoleum]

This is ugly. We're the freakin U.S.!! If anyone can get its citizens out of a country fast and freely, it should be us. This is embarrassing.

How do you propose to get to and transport them? When you have nowhere to land airliners? Most cruise liners aren't US flagged and aren't going to want to enter the area without a lot of protection.

I'd like to see one of the lamenters in this thread give some concrete logistical plans for moving 20,000 people out of Lebanon quickly. Remember, of course, that all these people are not in the same place and their mobility may be hampered at the moment. If you wish an easier problem, I'll take suggestions for evaculating 7,000 people from Beirut.

[deccan]

Send in some aircraft carriers to carry them?

Only half-joking. The Australians sent in a couple of warships to evacuate ozzies and kiwis from the Solomon Islands in 2001.

[soondifferent]

How do you propose to get to and transport them? When you have nowhere to land airliners? Most cruise liners aren't US flagged and aren't going to want to enter the area without a lot of protection.

I'd like to see one of the lamenters in this thread give some concrete logistical plans for moving 20,000 people out of Lebanon quickly. Remember, of course, that all these people are not in the same place and their mobility may be hampered at the moment. If you wish an easier problem, I'll take suggestions for evaculating 7,000 people from Beirut.

Rapture?

[Ben Sones]

How do you propose to get to and transport them? When you have nowhere to land airliners? Most cruise liners aren't US flagged and aren't going to want to enter the area without a lot of protection.

Well, I'd start by tasking more than one ship to transport those 25,000 refugees. A good portion of the Navy is already in the area. Retask an LHD or something.

[Enidigm]

Make a deal with Syria?

Hire some Cypriot/Turkish/Egyptian ships?

[Mehrunes]

How do you propose to get to and transport them? When you have nowhere to land airliners?

We have an entire FLEET ( Numero Seis) assigned to the Mediterranian and I highly doubt they anything more pressing to attend to. If anyone else were president this shit wouldn't be happening.

[bago]

This is one truism that works no matter where you are in the world. Money Talks. It needs no translator. If you go somewhere with 50 grand, and say I need these people here ASAP, people will find a way.

[bago]

A corollary: How much money should you offer as a bribe?

Answer: Enough that the person getting it won't think twice.

[Uncle Larry]

We have an entire FLEET ( Numero Seis) assigned to the Mediterranian and I highly doubt they anything more pressing to attend to. If anyone else were president this shit wouldn't be happening.

Perhaps moving the entire fleet into a warzone we're not directly involved in isn't strategically sound, or something?

[Mehrunes]

Perhaps moving the entire fleet into a warzone we're not directly involved in isn't strategically sound, or something?

I have no idea what this is even implying. What's so strategically unsound about rescuing civilians with navy assets?

[Uncle Larry]

I have no idea what this is even implying. What's so strategically unsound about rescuing civilians with navy assets?

I honestly don't know if it is or isn't. My initial thought was that if we "send in the fleet" we give the appearance that we're getting involved, increasing the chances of some Hezbollah Hijinks that make that happpen for real. What if some nutjob attacks one of our ships? Are you going to hold your breath in the hopes that we show restraint?

Also, the CNN reporting on this mentions that there's something like 25K Americans there, "many having dual citizenship." So how many want out? How do we contact them, or locate them? There's like a war going on, and stuff. It all sounds a little more nuanced that just "sending in the fleet", that's why I asked.

[bago]

Bring some ships under destroyer escort. Let them shoot missiles. We've got the phalanx.

[Uncle Larry]

Bring some ships under destroyer escort. Let them shoot missiles. We've got the phalanx.

Well, that much we're already doing.

[BrewersDroop]

The US isn't the only nation facing logistics problems.

Canada currently has between 40-50,000 citizens in Lebanon, some dual-nationality and it's not clear how many want to leave. The government has hired a handful of ships to evacuate those who want out but between them the ships can only carry 2,000 people at a time. They're already saying it's the largest evacuation in Canadian history.

There are around 22,000 British and British-Lebanese nationals in Lebanon. The UK has sent in some warships but expect to be able to evacuate only 5,000 people by the end of the week.

Likewise, Australia has 25,000 citizens there, the Philippines has 30,000, France 30,000 and on the list goes.

[Idar Thorvaldsen]

I'd like to see one of the lamenters in this thread give some concrete logistical plans for moving 20,000 people out of Lebanon quickly. Remember, of course, that all these people are not in the same place and their mobility may be hampered at the moment. If you wish an easier problem, I'll take suggestions for evaculating 7,000 people from Beirut. The Norwegian gov't just evacuated little over a thousand people (mostly Swedes) using a car transport vessel; evidently rather uncomfortable for the passengers, but it worked. They got resupplied while at sea by a US naval vessel, too.

[E-phonk]

For what it's worth: part of our citizens left with the french boat, and part went to the closest airport in syria, where they are picked up by military aircrafts.

We are offcourse talking about Belgium, with only 300 people or something - which makes it a lot easier. All of the people who wanted to leave (until now) should be gone today.

There was some critisizm over the way our ambassy handled things, since they didn't have the proper info for those who called - even though it was available on the website from the department of foreign affairs.

[Brian Rucker]

A website is helpful if you have power.

This whole thing is fucked up on so many levels. The only encouraging thing I'm seeing is the neocons, trying to escalate things into Syria and Iran, getting kicked to the curb. At least in the media.

[Ben Sones]

I honestly don't know if it is or isn't. My initial thought was that if we "send in the fleet" we give the appearance that we're getting involved, increasing the chances of some Hezbollah Hijinks that make that happpen for real. What if some nutjob attacks one of our ships? Are you going to hold your breath in the hopes that we show restraint?

Getting caught int he crossfire is definitely a real risk. However, the 25,000 Americans in Lebanon are already facing that same risk, and the founding purpose of the American military is to defend Americans, so I don't think it makes much sense to put those citizens at risk to keep the military safe from the crossfire. If a bunch of the people waiting for evac end up dead, what are the odds that we get involved? I'd say pretty high.

[E-phonk]

And it's not like Israel would risk targeting a US marine fleet.

[Brian Rucker]

Israel did sink a U.S. warship before accidentally (at least depending on who you ask).

[noun]

The fact that Israel destroyed the Lebanese airport(s) and that the US has always charged for evacs may be valid points, but it shouldn't matter. The main thing this administration has never understood from day one is the value of GOOD PR. They should be paying someone insanely big bucks to get people out of there as fast as possible, with the results that:

* The US would demonstrate to the world we really do think people are important.
* The US would prove that we're competent in something after all.

And after we get our own people out, we spend the money to start evacuating OTHER countries' citizens. And you know what would be the icing on the cake? Convincing Halliburton to contribute resources and money to make it happen.

Can you just imagine how much PR damage this would undo?

[Aeon221]

If you beat small dogs your entire life, and then dedicate one day to the kissing of small dogs, does this change the fact that you have beaten small dogs your entire life?

[Kareem]

The main thing this administration has never understood from day one is the value of GOOD PR.

Isn't that just irrelevant once you get elected for a second term?

[noun]

To you and I, no. But I'm talking about the people with such horrible short-term memories they voted for Bush again even after he demonstrated his incompetence. You know, the ones that forget about issues two days after they stop appearing in newspapers?

Isn't that just irrelevant once you get elected for a second term?

Ask the folks up for re-election this November.

[Enidigm]

It's not "spending the big bucks", it's not acting like a clueless bureaucratic whale that takes a week just to wake up from it's fattened slumber and then get pissy about having to wake up at all.

In the New Orleans disaster, for example, Bush should've called up the draft and sent 100,000 men to fix the city. Yea, these recruits would be living in tents, yea, they'd be eating spam and beans 'n rice - but that's the whole point of goverment sized projects. Labor is cheap if you use cheap labor :).

Contrast, with, for example Iraq, where you instead throw billions into corporations with vague goals and directives and then act suprised when large portions of this money simply dissapear into the void with no appreciable benefits gained from the expenditures.

[Jason McCullough]

So I guess what this thread has revealed is that the great powers need to get off their ass and impose a cease-fire. Hell of a lot easier than evacuating 100k people.

[MikeSofaer]

So I guess what this thread has revealed is that the great powers need to get off their ass and impose a cease-fire. Hell of a lot easier than evacuating 100k people.Israel would like nothing more than for a major power to impose a ceasefire.

[Incendiary Lemon]

Israel did sink a U.S. warship before accidentally (at least depending on who you ask).

This is the top return at Google (http://www.ussliberty.org/) for "USS Liberty." A partisan site, although I do fall on that side. The ship was monitoring Israeli movements from international waters when it was attacked. Here is the other view of it (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/liberty.html), again its the first that Google picked up.

[Lum]

Israel would like nothing more than for a major power to impose a ceasefire.

Sure, once they're done. I think they would get quite irritated were we to actually impose a cease fire before they ceased firing.

[Lizard_King]

Sure, once they're done. I think they would get quite irritated were we to actually impose a cease fire before they ceased firing.
I think the main thing would be how the ceasefire is put in place vs when. I don't really think they have very many achievable goals militarily at this point, and the main end in negotiations for a stand down would likely be conditions that would preclude the need for such an attack to happen again.

[forgeforsaken]

Isn't that just irrelevant once you get elected for a second term?

That's assuming the only concern is your carreer and maybe the state of the party and not the world oppinion of the country. A president's top concern should be the well being of the country, and being on good standing with the rest of the world could be argued as being highly conducive to achieving that.

[arctangent]

I don't really think they have very many achievable goals militarily at this point.

Israel wants all Lebanese civilians to evacuate the area south of the Litani river (which Israel has wanted control of for a long time, btw), presumably in order to bomb the crap out of Hizbullah, who are still in that area in force. IDF says that they need 10 to 14 days more in Lebanon.

Israel is also apparently calling up (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1153291949935&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull) two reserve battalions.

If this story is true (http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=2927), they are going to need them.

The last thing Israel wants is a ceasefire right now. In week or two, assuming all goes well from Israel's point of view, then sure.

[awdougherty]

Next up: A constitutional amendment to prevent the 3 flag-burnings that occur every year.

All of which are in response to the threat of a flag burning amendment. Seriously, I feel like the "important political battles" being waged in Congress are more in line with shadowboxing than anything else.

[antlers]

This is the top return at Google (http://www.ussliberty.org/) for "USS Liberty." A partisan site, although I do fall on that side. The ship was monitoring Israeli movements from international waters when it was attacked. Here is the other view of it (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/liberty.html), again its the first that Google picked up.

I looked at this in detail last time it came up and concluded that the only possibility that explained all the facts was that Israeli pilots participating in the attack knew the ship was American, attempted to communicate this, and believed that they had been ordered to sink it nonetheless, but that higher levels of Israeli command did not realize it was an American ship for hours because they were pre-occupied with all the other events of the war taking place that day--kind of "the American ship is there in addition to that Egyptian ship we told you to sink" vs. "The American ship is the Egyptian ship we told you to sink." It was a classic fog of war situation--with plenty of "Oh, crap" from the Israelis when they realized what they had done. Perhaps most embarassing is that the Israeli pilots and their immediate superiors were perfectly prepared to follow orders involving sinking an American ship.

Though I can't argue with you if you think differently.

[antlers]

How dangerous is Lebanon now, really, if you don't travel and you're not a Hezbollah militant?

[MikeSofaer]

Sure, once they're done. I think they would get quite irritated were we to actually impose a cease fire before they ceased firing.I think if a major power committed itself to keeping Israel and Hezbollah from shooting at each other by means of a large military presence in the region, Israel would be quite content. That's how I interpreted "impose a ceasefire", although that may not be what was meant.

[playingwithknives]

How dangerous is Lebanon now, really, if you don't travel and you're not a Hezbollah militant?

Quite I imagine, one of the Sky News crews were in the garage of a condominium in an expensive Christian part of Beriut when the Israeli's hit a bulldozer like vehicle at a roadworks 50m down the street.

[Idar Thorvaldsen]

How dangerous is Lebanon now, really, if you don't travel and you're not a Hezbollah militant?
Most western citizens aren't staying around to find out, which gives some indication.

[Kalle]

If you can avoid the bombs, I guess Lebanon isn't that dangerous. Yet. Expect kidnappings of westerners within the month.

[Lum]

I think if a major power committed itself to keeping Israel and Hezbollah from shooting at each other by means of a large military presence in the region, Israel would be quite content. That's how I interpreted "impose a ceasefire", although that may not be what was meant.

Actually, no. They have historical precedent for UN forces intervening between Arab and Israeli armies, then helpfully stepping out of the way when the Arab armies decide it's time for this week's installment of the Arab-Israeli Wars. Happened in the Sinai, Lebanon, and I believe Golan as well.

[Idar Thorvaldsen]

Actually, no. They have historical precedent for UN forces intervening between Arab and Israeli armies, then helpfully stepping out of the way when the Arab armies decide it's time for this week's installment of the Arab-Israeli Wars. Happened in the Sinai, Lebanon, and I believe Golan as well.
To be fair, the UN forces did also step out of the way when Israel decided the same (as seen in the 1982 invasion of Lebanon, I believe).

[MikeSofaer]

Actually, no. They have historical precedent for UN forces intervening between Arab and Israeli armies, then helpfully stepping out of the way when the Arab armies decide it's time for this week's installment of the Arab-Israeli Wars. Happened in the Sinai, Lebanon, and I believe Golan as well.True enough, but in this case Israel it's a militia, not a nation, that is the threat, so there may be a better chance of them sticking it out.

Also, a single nation might be more reliable than the UN.

[SlyFrog]

A website is helpful if you have power.

This whole thing is fucked up on so many levels. The only encouraging thing I'm seeing is the neocons, trying to escalate things into Syria and Iran, getting kicked to the curb. At least in the media.

They don't need to escalate this thing to Syrian and Iran on the surface. One current theory found at Debka is that the U.S. is letting Israel go nuts for a few weeks as a message to Iran, and as a response to the Iranian involvement in the July 4 attacks against coalition soldiers in Iraq (believed to be triggered by Iran).

So this is in part likely all a big proxy killing.

[Lizard_King]

What's the message being sent to Iran, then? Hurry up with those nukes already?

[Unicorn McGriddle]

They get sent that message a lot. If you listen to Iran's answering machine, it's just that one message, over and over again.

[John Many Jars]

What were all these so-called Americans doing in Lebanon, and how do we know that they all support our troops?

[Brian Rucker]

Well, they're sending the Marines in to extract Americans. Last I heard they estimate 25,000 Americans in-country. I think we've gotten a couple thousand out now.

Here is where things, PR wise, do start looking better for Israel. If Marines do end up flying into Hezbollah controlled territory and get shot at then, for a change, it's not Israeli's scaring the crap out of Americans and terrorizing a whole country. They can point the finger at Hezbollah instead as badguys.

Given how open Hezbollah has been to reporters lately one does get the sense the leadership, at least, is savvy to how things look in the media. Maybe there won't be kidnappings of American hostages or guerillas firing on Marine helicopters. But I wouldn't count on it.

Everyone knows we're letting Israel do this. I suspect someone will take potshots or try to grab a few unfortunates to make a point.

[CindySue22]

Rush puts it best:

But here we have a life in this country that's so cushy, the expectations are so high, that when a little hardship like going without food for a couple of hours or riding on a cramped boat out of a war zone. Where do they think they are anyway? They're in the Third World for all practical purposes.

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_071906/content/america_s_anchorman.guest.html

Wanna take your family on a vacation? Yeah, the ME is a great place to go! Use your fuckin' brains, for Chrissakes.

"The evacuation was a nightmare. Everyone at [The American University in Beirut] was shuttled to the port in downtown and put on a Norwegian freighter, which was horribly overcrowded," she said. "One of the crewmates said that it was designed to hold 25 people and instead there were about 1,000 people on board. Only one or two bathrooms that were filthy, covered in garbage and buzzing with flies. Flies were everywhere, all over us."

OMG!!

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/13939882/

[Kalle]

Wanna take your family on a vacation? Yeah, the ME is a great place to go! Use your fuckin' brains, for Chrissakes.


Hey, stupid hyperbole, who'd have guessed it.

Two weeks ago no one would have advised against a tourist trip to Lebanon. Stay out of the border country and don't get mixed up witht he Hizbollah, sure, but the rest of the country was safe for anyone with some common sense. A lot of people being evacutated, US citizens, UK citizens, French, Swedish, Belgian, are people who were born in Lebanon but fled the country during the civil war and built new lives in new countries. But they still have family in Lebanon, history there, so they come back and visit. Even if it's not perfectly safe.

But the bottom line is that nobody, absolutely nobody, expected all of Lebanon to be a warzone two weeks ago. And as long as you stayed away from the Israeli border you weren't in danger. It is not, and has never been a question of bad judgement on behalf of the people being evacuated from Lebanon. They could not have anticipated this, and Israel didn't give anyone time to leave.

[playingwithknives]

My friend at work spent a frantic few days on the phone to Beruit, where her Kuwaiti friends had gone to party. This lot are the Chanel and Cristal crowd rather than burka wearers of course, as Beirut was just getting itself back to being the Arabic Riveria playground it used to be.

[CindySue22]

Hey, stupid hyperbole, who'd have guessed it.

Two weeks ago no one would have advised against a tourist trip to Lebanon. Stay out of the border country and don't get mixed up witht he Hizbollah, sure, but the rest of the country was safe for anyone with some common sense. A lot of people being evacutated, US citizens, UK citizens, French, Swedish, Belgian, are people who were born in Lebanon but fled the country during the civil war and built new lives in new countries. But they still have family in Lebanon, history there, so they come back and visit. Even if it's not perfectly safe.

But the bottom line is that nobody, absolutely nobody, expected all of Lebanon to be a warzone two weeks ago. And as long as you stayed away from the Israeli border you weren't in danger. It is not, and has never been a question of bad judgement on behalf of the people being evacuated from Lebanon. They could not have anticipated this, and Israel didn't give anyone time to leave.

God forbid anyone would do a bit of research and think.

SAFETY AND SECURITY: Recent events in Lebanon underscore the need for caution and sound personal security precautions. Former Prime Minister Rafiq Hariri was assassinated on February 14, 2005 in a car bomb attack in which 22 people were killed and many others seriously wounded; the potential for violence remains. Since February 2005, there have been 15 separate bombings in Lebanon, resulting in ten dead and 121 wounded.

Americans have been the targets of numerous terrorist attacks in Lebanon in the past. The perpetrators of many of these attacks are still present and retain the ability to act. American citizens should thus keep a low profile, varying times and routes for all required travel. Americans should also pay close attention to their personal security at locations where Westerners are generally known to congregate, and should avoid demonstrations and large gatherings. Unofficial travel to Lebanon by U.S. Government employees and their family members requires prior approval by the Department of State.

U.S. citizens who travel to Lebanon should exercise heightened caution when traveling in parts of the southern suburbs of Beirut, portions of the Bekaa Valley and South Lebanon, and the cities of Sidon and Tripoli. Hizballah has not been disarmed. It maintains a strong presence in many of these areas, and there is potential for action by other extremist groups in the city of Tripoli. Tensions remain in Lebanon's southern border with the possibility of Hizballah and Palestinian militant activity at any time.

Palestinian groups hostile to both the Lebanese government and the U.S. operate largely autonomously inside refugee camps in different areas of the country. Intra-communal violence within the camps has resulted in violent incidents such as shootings and explosions. Travel by U.S. citizens to Palestinian camps should be avoided. Asbat al-Ansar, a terrorist group with apparent links to Al-Qaida, has targeted Lebanese, U.S. and other foreign government interests. It has been outlawed by the Lebanese government but continues to maintain a presence in Ain al-Hilweh refugee camp.


http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_948.html

But just another trip to Disneyland, hey? Except for the flies, of course. Dipshit.

[Brian Rucker]

More on the PR front. Here's the latest conservative spin. I saw this going out on FOX yesterday. A whole segment on how the Arab-Americans evacuted from Lebanon might include Hezbollah sleeper cells. "Oh, of course, the documentation is all correct. They're vetting these people very strictly but they've been here such a long time who knows what side they're on?"

Holy fuck. Is this the best AIPAC's proxies can come up with to steal away sympathy from American refugees fleeing Israel's military operations?

Better keep those FOXy fingers crossed that Hezbollah does something stupid like kidnapping some American. This crap reeks far too much of desperation to fly.

[Enidigm]

I guess citizenship only counts as first class when it's politically expedient and does not offend the powers that be. Otherwise your just another expendible, stupid, COPS-worthy ingrate.

[Kalle]

But just another trip to Disneyland, hey? Except for the flies, of course. Dipshit.

No, Lebanon is not perfectly safe. It hasn't been since the 1970's. And I failed to recognise that US citizens run a higher risk of becoming targets within Lebanon than most others. But none of this has anything to do with the matter at hand which is the Israeli bombings, and subsequent invasion. They are the reason for the exodus of foreigners and civilians from Lebanon, not the domestic radical groups your government sees fit to warn travelers about.

[CindySue22]

No, Lebanon is not perfectly safe. It hasn't been since the 1970's. And I failed to recognise that US citizens run a higher risk of becoming targets within Lebanon than most others. But none of this has anything to do with the matter at hand which is the Israeli bombings, and subsequent invasion. They are the reason for the exodus of foreigners and civilians from Lebanon, not the domestic radical groups your government sees fit to warn travelers about.

Except these domestic terrorist groups (supported by Iran) are the reason Israel is now engaged in this latest war/military action. And just how fast, in you considered opinion, should the US be able to pull 25,000 people out of a war zone? Again, it's not Disneyland over there, you go there, you take risks.