So, I started replaying Fallout...

[Dave47]

Naked Lunch’s rants have reminded me that I never actually finished Fallout, so I’ve been replaying it. I’m having a lot of fun with it, which is impressive for an eight year old game, but I’m also having trouble seeing what makes it "the best RPG ever." The setting and writing are top-notch, but most of the game mechanics frustrate me.

I think a lot of this has to do with the passage of time, so I’d like Fallout fans to try and get me “in the zone” to appreciate it. My first, aborted play through took place in like 2003, so I’m rather short on perspective. So send some positive nostaligia mojo my way!

(PS: Does the text parser ever become useable? I’ve had zero luck with it.)

[Moggraider]

Fallout can be played with a lot of different character types, which gives it a lot of replay value. As you recognized, the setting and writing are excellent. The battle system is fast-paced and exciting, and I still can't find another game that gives me the feeling of satisfaction I get when I've ripped an enemy to shreds with the SMG in Fallout. The timed quest gives the game a real intensity and puts pressure on you, at least the first time through. I think Fallout just broke a ton of precedents and really broke from the mold. It was one of the first PC games I bought for myself and I'm probably always going to name it as my favorite PC RPG, if not RPG period.

[Naked_Lunch]

It's the best RPG ever because it allows for a wide range of play styles; there are very few, if none, useless skills; the game has different endings depending on your actions; choices have consequnces et cetera to a degree never seen before (and since, it seems). Games have come close to replicating Fallout's greatness, but none have done it in the style and grace that FO did. God, I remember the first time I played it. The intro movie blew me away and locked me in and never let go. Made a sneaky character but ended up fighting the rats anyway. I remember the first time I crit'd a rat and got that beautiful, beautiful gore. Geez, I'm getting all misty-eyed just writing about it.

The "Tell Me About" was thrown in there just for kicks it seems, though it's nice if you're a FO junkie like me and crave every single detail possible.

But, be more specific. What mechanics "frustrate" you? The turn-based combat? SPECIAL? Tandy's sweet ass? What what what?

Oh, and Fallout's NINE years old, heh.

[Dave47]

But, be more specific. What mechanics "frustrate" you? The turn-based combat? SPECIAL? Tandy's sweet ass? What what what?
The combat system is terrible. And the inventory system / barter economy is a gigantic pain in the ass. But every dark cloud has a silver lining: The combat system is so bad that it has encouraged me to create a diplomat character-type. Which is going really well so far.

[Naked_Lunch]

Why is it horrible? Is it because it's turn based? Goes too slow? Personally, I love the combat. The death animations never get old and there's nothing like the thrill of aiming a 5% shot at someone's eyes and then scoring a critical on it.

Inventory could use some work, yeah, but I just used the PgUp/Down keys and it wasn't that much of a problem. Note for the bartering counter you can use the numpad to enter the amount rather than scrolling.

Oh, and diplomats are really fun to play. My personal favorite character build I've made is an unbelievably lucky sneaky barehanded ninja guy with tagged stealth, unarmed, and outdoorsman (I hate the random encounters in games, especially with a melee character). Sneaking up behind little kids and then killing them in one punch was good fun.

[JPR]

The combat is by far my favorite part of the game, but I love the whole thing. Unless you don't like turn based combat or don't get a kick out of shooting children in the eyes, I'm not sure what there is to dislike.

Really that was what did it for me, I think. On my first playthrough, I decided (as I usually do in RPGs) to see what happens if I go on a killing spree. I wiped out the entire second town after many many reloads. When I killed the kids and got branded a "childkiller", I was in love. After leaving the second town, I got accosted in the desert by a bounty-hunter who was after a child-murdering savage. I killed him, took his stuff, and had the time of my life.

[Alan Au]

The combat system is a fancy way of rolling dice. The charm comes from, well, loading the dice through strategic allocation of perks.

- Alan

[Warning]

Fallout hurts my eyes on my LCD screen. It runs at a native 1280x1024 and I'm pretty sure Fallout 1/2 are 640x480. It's muy blurrisimo and I get a headache after about 20 minutes.

[Rollory]

I remember one discussion with a coworker about Fallout a few years back. "Yeah, I heard this was a great game, so I tried it. I tried shooting a rat in the eye. It did 1 hit point of damage. I mean, I shot a RAT in the EYE and it did 1 hp. I said 'screw this', and returned it."

I enjoy Fallout, but I can see his point. The combat system was far from perfect.

[SirBruce]

Stupid human psychology ftw. Simply multiply all the numbers in the game by 10, and he'd like the game, even though it would make no real difference.

Bruce

[instant0]

Now, if he shot a PIGEON in the eye, it would have been a different story.

[Chris Woods]

Mutant Rats have armored eyes.

Duh.

Chris Woods

[spiffy]

I remember one discussion with a coworker about Fallout a few years back. "Yeah, I heard this was a great game, so I tried it. I tried shooting a rat in the eye. It did 1 hit point of damage. I mean, I shot a RAT in the EYE and it did 1 hp. I said 'screw this', and returned it."

I enjoy Fallout, but I can see his point. The combat system was far from perfect.

Tell you the truth, soon as I was pitted vs rats in the corridor out of the Vault, and the combat froze for me to pick my target, I nearly dropped the game right there too. I was fresh from playing Diablo and somehow expected games to have 'evolved' to exciting realtime combat. Only the fact I had just returned another game and didn't want to face the clerk again made me push on. Well, turns out once I got past the rats, humans were so much more fun to pepper with SMG's, and the deliberate choices of turn based combat had me hooked (again, as Xcom had already initiated me a whiles back). Now, I wouldn't have it any other way.

My gripes on the combat system would be the time delay for you interface coming up is too long (that "bssshhhh" sound too), controlling squadmates could be much better, and little things to simply get the pace going quicker between choices (make an option to have AI play simultaneous? I dunno).

[SlyFrog]

Stupid human psychology ftw. Simply multiply all the numbers in the game by 10, and he'd like the game, even though it would make no real difference.

Bruce

I don't think it has anything to do with that. I recall the same feeling; here I am in my first fight, and I'm spending a seemingly large amount of time trying to kill some simple freaking rats. With messages telling me things that would lead me to expect that I should be mauling them, while the actual results are not matching those messages.

If you want to add flavor text or hit locations, they do need to make sense (in the context of combat generally). I do not expect any grizzled survivor human type to have too much difficulty killing a normal rat, in particular when they are apparently hitting it in the eye with pointy damage weapons.

[Naked_Lunch]

I remember one discussion with a coworker about Fallout a few years back. "Yeah, I heard this was a great game, so I tried it. I tried shooting a rat in the eye. It did 1 hit point of damage. I mean, I shot a RAT in the EYE and it did 1 hp. I said 'screw this', and returned it.
No offense, but your coworker is a fucking moron and shouldn't be playing computer games.


I don't think it has anything to do with that. I recall the same feeling; here I am in my first fight, and I'm spending a seemingly large amount of time trying to kill some simple freaking rats. With messages telling me things that would lead me to expect that I should be mauling them, while the actual results are not matching those messages.
You ever try killing rats in real life? Especially with a knife? They don't just stand there and wait for you to hit them. They scurry around and bit and nip and all that stuff. If you hit one in the eye, it could just be a glancing blow and not deal that much damage. A fun thing to do is once the battle is over, go through it in your mind (or use fraps and fast forward it) and imagine it in a real time and you'll see what I mean. That's what gets most people turned off turn-based games, the whole "OMG HES JUST STANDING THERE AND I MISSED LOL WTF NOT REALISTIC GAY GAY GAY." I just imagine turn-based as extremely slowed-down real time, like bullet-time almost, where you can see every action individually. Don't take the combat at face value and you'll have a much more fun time.

Warning -- There's a Fallout 2 patch out there somewhere that allows you to bump up the resolution to your desktop resolution and all that good stuff. I think it's called "FAllout 2 Patcher" or something. Check it out.

[spiffy]

I remember one discussion with a coworker about Fallout a few years back. "Yeah, I heard this was a great game, so I tried it. I tried shooting a rat in the eye. It did 1 hit point of damage. I mean, I shot a RAT in the EYE and it did 1 hp. I said 'screw this', and returned it."

I enjoy Fallout, but I can see his point. The combat system was far from perfect.

eh.. Half my entire company about six years back was playing Everquest and going on about how awesome it was. Whereas in Fallout I spent what, 15 minutes killing rats? In Everquest, it took 4 hours of rats and bats just to make level one, whih then upped me to snakes and spiders. That's when I quit, figuring the progression to foxes, badgers, eagles, rabbits, hippos to DRAGONS would be a long, long journey. Most early rpg's had rat bashing.. what can you do?

[LarryLard]

If you hit one in the eye, it could just be a glancing blow

I take your point, but you have to admit this is a pretty funny line.

[forgeforsaken]

I really never liked the combat in Fallout. There was far too much watching and waiting and not doing anything. The problem came from it being turn based but you only controlled a single character. So combat would go something like this: Make your move, watch as your party makes it's moves, watch as 20 bad guys make their moves, watch as random NPCs make their moves, make a move. I love turn based combat, but I really really need to control more than one guy for it to be fun for me.

[Naked_Lunch]

Yes, it can go slow sometimes but FO wasn't a party-based game. It was all about the one wandering loner in the desert western-y type thing. I think the way to make the combat move faster and generally more enjoyable would be to use concurrent enemy turns like in Night Watch or ToEE.

[Sockpuppet]

Remember back in the day when Sierra released "pretty new graphics" SVGA versions of some of their classic adventures? I think there was a Space Quest and a King's Quest that got the treatment.

I'd have paid full pop for updates of Fallout 1 and 2 which used the graphics and combat from Fallout Tactics. The graphics would be icing, but if I could have individual control of my party members so that Ian wasn't consantly emptying his SMG into my back, that would have been cake.

Not feasible for a million reasons, I understand, but I always thought it would have made for a great excuse to revisit the wasteland.

[SlyFrog]

You ever try killing rats in real life?

Yes. I have. Repeatedly.

[Thrag]

Fallout wasn't perfect by any means, though like all things the longer it fades into the past the more it's flaws are forgotten and successes remembered. After enough time goes by, games usually get remembered for their potential not their delivery. There are plenty of games I hold in high regard now that if I think carefully back to actually playing them I can usually recall moments of frustration and peeves about the system.

Of course this is the problem that leads to the massive disapointment when a game that in reality is equivalent in quality to the treasured memory of a game gone by fails to live up to the insurmountable expectations that the selective memory of the potential of the classic title has set.

[Thrag]

Not to say that Fallout wasn't the bomb, it was for all the reasons mentioned already.

[Rob_Merritt]

The combat system is terrible. And the inventory system / barter economy is a gigantic pain in the ass.

Agreed. Both are terrible. If it wasn't for the quality of the rest of the game, no one would even remember fallout today.

[unbongwah]

The problem came from it being turn based but you only controlled a single character.
Yeah, that was my big beef with Fallout as well: I love a good turn-based combat game, but only when it's party-based. Singler-player (or SP + NPC allies) turn-based combat just bores me silly. My other big beef is post-apocalyptic settings bore me: I liked Wasteland despite its setting, not because of it. So combine the two and I could never force myself through Fallout, despite its other qualities.

[Ben]

Why is it horrible? Is it because it's turn based?

This was a completely unexpected response. Yes, N_L, only you and your codex loser friends are brilliant enough to appreciate turn based games. Us beige gamers get all confused and bored and then go off to play Halo and Madden.


If you hit one in the eye, it could just be a glancing blow and not deal that much damage.

Dude, the answer to that complaint is "It's just a video game". Not an argument of how it's plausible that someone could shoot a rat in the eye and the rat would survive.


there are very few, if none, useless skills;


This is a lie.

[curst]

I love Fallout 1 & 2. Having said that, the intro segment for the first is terrible, and the second's isn't much better (the town was okay, the mandatory temple trial sucked so badly). Just do your best to struggle past them... once you wander into a nearby town, the game should suddenly become much better.

One reason I don't hate Fallout Tactics the way a lot of other F1&2 fans seem to is that its introductory battle is a damn sight more interesting. Navigate minefields, ambush people from two sides, snipe, sneak, etc. It's all feasible. Maybe I'm wrong, but I clearly remember struggling doing anything in the intros of F1 & 2 besides firing/stabbing my weapons until everything around me was dead. Couldn't sneak past everything, couldn't target-shot anything... all you do is fight rats. Or maybe a couple of giant scorpions in the second - WHOA QUICK SOMEONE GET A CAMERA.

It's the worst imaginable way to introduce either game IMO, because for my money the best thing about Fallout is how you can pick from a huge variety of character builds and have a feasible success of chance with pretty much every one (albeit with varying degrees of difficulty). Even worse is that both games have a number of situations you might be able to resolve through dialogue alone, no need for fighting. Yet in the intro of the first there's no dialogue or environment interaction of any kind so you get no chance to see any of this in action, and outside of maybe one or two stupid side-quests I can't remember, the same holds true in the second.

[curst]

Gah! "Feasible success of chance?" I meant reasonable chance of success. I think.

[Moggraider]

Uh, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask if someone dislikes turn-based combat, Ben, particularly when we look at the complaints some people posted here.

[Jab]

I liked Fallout 1 and 2, but the further I got, I didn't see all the choices you could do. Furthest point in Fallout 1, was a church I think where you have to fight mutants. I really hated the intros for both, so linear.
I did get a chance to see the leader of the mutants in Fallout 1, wow that was a bit unexpected.

About turn based combat, I like it , in small doses. I enjoyed silent storm and Fallout Tactics, but the whole watching your AP and hoping you get that hit in, started to get on my nerves after awhile.

[Mehrunes]

Yet in the intro of the first there's no dialogue or environment interaction of any kind so you get no chance to see any of this in action, and outside of maybe one or two stupid side-quests I can't remember, the same holds true in the second.

In the second one you can talk your way past the last guy in the temple trial instead of fighting him, you also have to blow up a door with dynamite (I'm guessing this is what you mean by environment interaction?).

[Robert Sharp]

Damnit. I just reinstalled the game myself. I actually replayed F2 a while back, but the games are so similar, I guess F1 is still just as good. I'll probably start playing this evening. Thanks a lot! BTW, is the 1.1 patch the only one I need?

[instant0]

Hmm. I really liked Fallout Tactics but cant stand Fallout 1 and 2. Maybe I should replay them. The Intros were great though. I wish they made a movie based on the story, cutscenes and how its told. Or just animated episodes in the same cartoon style, could probably be a video-podcast, once a week for 15 minutes or so, 3$.

That patch mentioned earlier for resolution, anyone know where I might find it?

[Incendiary Lemon]

Damnit. I just reinstalled the game myself. I actually replayed F2 a while back, but the games are so similar, I guess F1 is still just as good. I'll probably start playing this evening. Thanks a lot! BTW, is the 1.1 patch the only one I need?

TeamX released a 1.3 fan patch a week or two ago. I believe it resolves dialog and scripting errors. Probably not essential but you might as well.

[spiffy]

I love Fallout 1 & 2. Having said that, the intro segment for the first is terrible, and the second's isn't much better (the town was okay, the mandatory temple trial sucked so badly). Just do your best to struggle past them... once you wander into a nearby town, the game should suddenly become much better.

One reason I don't hate Fallout Tactics the way a lot of other F1&2 fans seem to is that its introductory battle is a damn sight more interesting. Navigate minefields, ambush people from two sides, snipe, sneak, etc. It's all feasible. Maybe I'm wrong, but I clearly remember struggling doing anything in the intros of F1 & 2 besides firing/stabbing my weapons until everything around me was dead. Couldn't sneak past everything, couldn't target-shot anything... all you do is fight rats. Or maybe a couple of giant scorpions in the second - WHOA QUICK SOMEONE GET A CAMERA.

It's the worst imaginable way to introduce either game IMO, because for my money the best thing about Fallout is how you can pick from a huge variety of character builds and have a feasible success of chance with pretty much every one (albeit with varying degrees of difficulty). Even worse is that both games have a number of situations you might be able to resolve through dialogue alone, no need for fighting. Yet in the intro of the first there's no dialogue or environment interaction of any kind so you get no chance to see any of this in action, and outside of maybe one or two stupid side-quests I can't remember, the same holds true in the second.

I'm assuming you mean the first 'level' or five minutes of play when you say 'intro'.. I love the Fallouts, but I completely agree. The Temple of Trials in F2 was a really dumb way to begin a non-linear character-based RPG.

The cinematic intros, however, are awesome, and few games manage to capture so much mood in so little time compared.

[spiffy]

My other big beef is post-apocalyptic settings bore me: I liked Wasteland despite its setting, not because of it.

Hold on.. how many games feature a post-apocalyptic environment, or even anything that isn't your standard tolkien-esque world ? That you don't care for it is fair game, apples and oranges and all that, but to be bored of them when 90% of other rpg's focus on your standard elves n' orcs formula is .. well, kind of sad.
I'm still waiting for RPG's to pick a different theme. How about set in WW1? How about some lost tribes or civilizations in Africa/South America? on the moon? under the sea? There's so much more to explore game-setting wise than the dwarf kingdom of blahblahblah hunting for the amulet of bloopbloop which gives you +4 barf.

[Jazar]

How about some lost tribes or civilizations in Africa/South America? on the moon?

*cough*worldsofultima*cough*

Agree with your post wholeheartedly though. :)

[Podunk]

under the sea?

Bioshock?

[SirBruce]

Mars Saga / Mines of Titan

Bruce

[Naked_Lunch]

I really hated the intros for both, so linear.
Fallout 2 maybe, with the fag ass temple of trials but all FO1 had was the cave that took like a minute to get through and then the game was completely open to you. Even then, you could still sneak past the rats instead of killing them.

Furthest point in Fallout 1, was a church I think where you have to fight mutants.
You didn't have to fight them. Just go straight up and talk to Morpheus, or sneak.

Couldn't sneak past everything, couldn't target-shot anything... all you do is fight rats.
Dude, even with sneak untagged you can get by them. And you can target shot anything in the game.


That patch mentioned earlier for resolution, anyone know where I might find it?
NMA or DaC.


This is a lie.
Name me one completely and utterly useless skill in FO1. Come on, I dare ya.

This was a completely unexpected response. Yes, N_L, only you and your codex loser friends are brilliant enough to appreciate turn based games. Us beige gamers get all confused and bored and then go off to play Halo and Madden
Some people don't like the combat in fallout because it's turn based and whatnot. I was insulting your intelligence or whatnot. Stop being so paranoid, ffs.

[Mehrunes]

First Aid

[Kalle]

Hey Lunchie, didn't we do the "name the useless skills" in that other idiotic thread of yours?

[Naked_Lunch]

First Aid
Yeah, you kinda need this when you break a limb or go blind. That's usually pretty important. Next.

[Mehrunes]

That can actually happen to you in Fallout? Do you have to pick the Geriatric Saviour trait first?


You smack a Supermutant in the leg with your cane for 41 damage, but the sudden motion shatters your hip in the process. It's a pity that health insurance went out of style with the rest of civilization.

[Naked_Lunch]

Yeah, if someone gets a critical on a targeted body part it can break and you can only restore it with the First Aid/Doctor skill. Doctor restores the limb, I think, and first aid is what heals you back to full HP. You need it to use medkits properly.

[Mehrunes]

Well, if you can do it with Doctor then you don't really need First Aid, do you?

[Zylon]

What bugged me about Fallout was that the available character upgrades seemed to far outstrip the amount of XP naturally present in the game. Seems like you have to do some serious desert-combat grinding to gain access to the high-level perks.

[Old Man Gravy]

Seems like you have to do some serious desert-combat grinding to gain access to the high-level perks.
Man, I loved FO1. I got through it without grinding, though (other than playing it on a machine from 1990 that had a 2X CDROM not a typo I meant 2X, WHICH WAS A FUCKING GRIND FOR LOAD TIMES; but that will give you an indication of how much I loved it to suffer like that).

But I did do something that broke it. Can't remember exactly how, but I think I became really good at stealing shit. I'd steal everything and sell it to merchants or something along those lines. I'd gimped other skills by becoming such a good thief, but it didn't matter. I started doing drugs to boost the other skills, became an addict; but that didn't matter either, because I could make so much money by stealing or just take any drugs I saw in other people's pockets that I was a walking pharmacy anyway. I finished off the mutants and The Master with like drug-addled 11's in all my combat-related stats.

It's sad when something about the economics/purchasing model that lets you break an otherwise great game without really intending to.

[Naked_Lunch]

Well, if you can do it with Doctor then you don't really need First Aid, do you?
You need first aid to heal yourself with med kits and shit.

[Kalle]

Or, you could just use more med kits. It's not like they're in short supply.

[Old Man Gravy]

Hey, Naked, by the way:

If I may make a suggestion - stop defending Fallout like it's your sister's honor, man.

You seem like a decent enough chap, you like games, and you've had the shit kicked out of you by Bill Dungsroman. That's three things you have in common with most of the rest of us here.

If you'll cool off and hang around for a while, you'll find some of the most intelligent game discussion on the net, and some of the most interesting, precisely because it's not some collective orgasmic expression of monolithic worship of certain games in the RPG canon. It's a bunch of divergent opinions expressed by (on balance) pretty smart people who have been playing games for a long time.

There are guys here who love Fallout and guys who love X-Com. And some who don't. Guys who like Thief and guys who don't. Guys who like Deus Ex and guys who don't. Hell, there are even guys who don't like System Shock 2, because... well, I don't know what's wrong with them to cause that idiotic malady. And, (sit up cause this is critical) there are guys who will pretend to dislike Fallout even if they don't just to get you to be comic relief for a day. Games like Fallout stand or fall on their own, pal. You don't have to procelytize.

I like your passion, but I think you'll feel better and fit in just fine if you relax a bit.


Anyway, sorry for the derail, Dave. I'm going to go install Fallout 2 and replay. Can't remember why I didn't finish that one.

[JPR]

Or, you could just use more med kits. It's not like they're in short supply.

If you're trying to heal during combat, depending on how you do it, using additional medkits uses extra AP. And if you have managed to keep your attendants alive, it can be a little taxing to keep around enough stimpacks for everybody.

I'm not a "power-gamer", but I certainly had points in First Aid (and Doctor) every time I've played FO1 or 2.

[Naked_Lunch]

snip
Everything in that post is true except for the part about Bill.

[Kadath]

I suppose I could google this, but supposing one wanted to play FO1 today, what would be the easiest way to acquire a copy? Legitimately that is. I'm sure my originals are long long gone...

Sam

[Kalle]

I know it's been a traumatic experience but I'd have thought you would be past the denial stage by now Lunchie.

[Old Man Gravy]

what would be the easiest way to acquire a copy? Legitimately that is.

www.ebay.com

Also, if you look around, you should be able to find a Fallout 1/2 bundle for $9.99 in the budget games sections of places like Circuit City, CompUSA, Best Buy, Hastings, Walmart, etc. It's one of those little cardboard multi-fold envelopes in the section with the 10,000 clipart, learn Spanish, and fishtank screensavers disks.

[JPR]

Also, if you just need the first one, there's Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00004KDF9/sr=8-2/qid=1152313568/ref=pd_bbs_2/102-4355670-5476951?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance).

[roguefrog]

I run through the rat cave everytime. Takes like 20 seconds.

Now the Temple of Trials is a fucking tragedy.

[spiffy]

Man, I loved FO1. I got through it without grinding, though (other than playing it on a machine from 1990 that had a 2X CDROM not a typo I meant 2X, WHICH WAS A FUCKING GRIND FOR LOAD TIMES; but that will give you an indication of how much I loved it to suffer like that).

But I did do something that broke it. Can't remember exactly how, but I think I became really good at stealing shit. I'd steal everything and sell it to merchants or something along those lines. I'd gimped other skills by becoming such a good thief, but it didn't matter. I started doing drugs to boost the other skills, became an addict; but that didn't matter either, because I could make so much money by stealing or just take any drugs I saw in other people's pockets that I was a walking pharmacy anyway. I finished off the mutants and The Master with like drug-addled 11's in all my combat-related stats.

It's sad when something about the economics/purchasing model that lets you break an otherwise great game without really intending to.

that's awesome. I don't think you broke the game, you just pushed it on another level. I stayed away from drugs and stealing just like my mommy told me to. Instead, I read so many books on science and repair I could tech my way through any door or forcefield, install brains into robots and out-think SkyNet. In hindsight, how boring of me!

[Ben]

OMG- With a high enough barter skill in FO1 you could sell something to the same person for more than you bought it for. Both Fallouts had terrible, terrible economies. Also, stop being nice to Naked_Lunch. Before you know it's we'll have terrible little circle jerk threads about how games these days only cater to children with consoles and OMG I'm so smart because I like turnbased 2D games.
The RPGcodex infiltration is a threat to the very fabric of Qt3. I have in my hand the names of 57 individuals who would appear to be posting members or certainly lurkers at RPGcodex or No Mutants Allowed.

N_L- Well, by the standards that you'd claim a skill in Oblivion was useless, everything but small arms and energy weapons(i.e. Unarmed is worthless without the power fist). As far as actually and completely useless(as in any skill points put into would be better spent elsewhere)?
First Aid
Doctor
Outdoorsman
Repair
Traps
Throwing*

*Throwing is perhaps the least valuable skill in the history of video games.

[roguefrog]

Throwing weapons are cool in Mount&Blade

[Old Man Gravy]

OMG- With a high enough barter skill in FO1 you could sell something to the same person for more than you bought it for. Both Fallouts had terrible, terrible economies.
Yeah, that was it, man. I would buy something and then sell it back to them repeatedly until I had all their coin. So feeding the addiction and keeping the stats at above max with goofball wasn't a problem.

And I actually killed the Vault Leader with a thrown flare at the end after he told me I couldn't return. It was pretty funny, they must have coded it so that he'd die if you did even 1 point of damage or something. I was just going to be petty and toss something at him before he got back into the vault, but it like splattered him and blew his leg off. He tried crawling away but the burning flare scorched his trailing intestines and he didn't make it. Throw skill for the win! Good times.

So, 57 names, eh? Well, the meltdown rant at Equis aside, I still think Nekkid's an okay guy so far. Zealous, sure, and a ton defensive... but who hasn't been when they're receiving the rough side of Dungsroman's tongue (as opposed to the smooth side TOUTSUITE CAN I GET A HELL YEAH)? I guess I'm a bit skeptical, but I'll keep an ear out for your Midnight Ride once they start shambling their way over en masse like doofy zombies.

[Ben]

M&B thrown weapons are actually useful, I forgot that. I was mostly thinking of Jagged Alliance 2, where the damage done by physically hitting someone with a grenade was roughly equal to the amount caused by the subsequent explosion.

[spiffy]

OMG- With a high enough barter skill in FO1 you could sell something to the same person for more than you bought it for. Both Fallouts had terrible, terrible economies. Also, stop being nice to Naked_Lunch. Before you know it's we'll have terrible little circle jerk threads about how games these days only cater to children with consoles and OMG I'm so smart because I like turnbased 2D games.
The RPGcodex infiltration is a threat to the very fabric of Qt3. I have in my hand the names of 57 individuals who would appear to be posting members or certainly lurkers at RPGcodex or No Mutants Allowed.

N_L- Well, by the standards that you'd claim a skill in Oblivion was useless, everything but small arms and energy weapons(i.e. Unarmed is worthless without the power fist). As far as actually and completely useless(as in any skill points put into would be better spent elsewhere)?
First Aid
Doctor
Outdoorsman
Repair
Traps
Throwing*

*Throwing is perhaps the least valuable skill in the history of video games.

We've gone over this so issue so many times already it's redundant and antagonizing just for the sake of it.

Also, for you to be collecting names and making "lists" makes you a paranoid elitist in your own right. Who cares where people come from, there was no entrance exam or a bloodtest, and it takes all types to stay interesting.

[Incendiary Lemon]

First Aid - I've never put points into it and I've only used in the beginning of the game when I couldn't afford stimpaks. Still, I'd like to see the medical skills stick around for a theoretical F3, the Doctor is a decent archetype.

Doctor - Rare, you can heal the occasional critical and it restores more HP than first aid but again stimpaks are just easier.

Outdoorsman - Actually kind of nice if your a Diplomat or an H2H specialist (F2 only.)

Repair - Pretty Much Useless in F1. Occasionaly usefull in F2 with the prewar facilities.

Traps - Disgree, If you go with Lockpick you probably want to pick it up. There are enough spots that one without the other is just futile.

Throwing - Playing through F1 or F2 as the throwing expert would be brutal. I'd keep it though for F3 and make Grenades much more powerful as they are in Silent Storm.

[roguefrog]

That's it! I'm going to play Fallout with Throwing, Doctor, and First Aid tagged.

As it stands, I found the following skills completely viable:

Small Arms
Big Guns
Energy Weapons
Melee Weapons
Unarmed
Lockpick
Sneak
Speech
Steal

Useable but less useful then the above:

Science
Repair
Gambling

[Naked_Lunch]

Science and Repair were used in FO1, but were much more prominent in FO2. And hey, gambling was the instant money skill! I'd say that was pretty useful.

Ben -- Lighten the fuck up. As Old Man Gravy said earlier, the neat thing about Qt3 is the variety of opinions. Shit man, if you want to keep out all those unsavory types (i.e. people with different views than you) then Qt3 would just be as much as a hivemind as the Codex supposedly is. :rolleyes:

everything but small arms and energy weapons(i.e. Unarmed is worthless without the power fist)
Dude that is so wrong it's sickening. I'm guessing you just fought your way through the game and never bothered to try anything else.

Oh, and making sneaky throwing weapon master kicks ass.

[Unicorn McGriddle]

Also, for you to be collecting names and making "lists" makes you a paranoid elitist in your own right. Who cares where people come from, there was no entrance exam or a bloodtest, and it takes all types to stay interesting.

It was a McCarthy joke. I'm pretty sure Ben doesn't really have a list.

[Ben]

N-L: Unarmed in FO1 was completely worthless without the powerfist. I mean, you could probably get overpowered enough with other skills to make that work, but it was vastly less useful than small/energy/melee. If you want to roleplay and try out different shit you can do make anything you want work, but that's also true in hated Bethesda games.

And repair and science were usable in FO1, but they weren't useful.

Gambling was a terrible idea for a skill, actually, since it went from "complete waste of skill points" to "breaks the economy of the game" in the space of 5 or so points.

[roguefrog]

Unarmed is fine. Saying it is "COMPLETELY WORTHLESS WITHOUT THE POWERFIST" is pushing it. By the end you want the powerfist if you're planning to take out hordes of Mutants quickly, but believe me, the spiked knuckles worked against most humans or ghouls. Honest.

[Kirian]

I suppose I could google this, but supposing one wanted to play FO1 today, what would be the easiest way to acquire a copy? Legitimately that is. I'm sure my originals are long long gone...

Sam
Actually, if you don't mind importing, several old games have been bundled and re-released in the UK.
You can acquire The Fallout series (1, 2, and Tactics) (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000FUD16A/026-9901940-5589269?v=glance&n=300703), Baldur's Gate series (1+ Sword Coast, 2+ Throne of Bhaal) (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000FGA1US/026-9901940-5589269?v=glance&n=300703&v=glance), or The Icewind Dale series (extrapolate the pattern) (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000FGBVAC/026-9901940-5589269?v=glance&n=300703&v=glance).
Wonderful.
You can also order them all from Play (http://www.play.com), if ye prefer. The prices are the same.

[ashileedo]

I've replayed the first Fallout several times and I figured out a nice way to re-experience the game. To see all the hidden content or to re-experience the characters, setting and story quickly is to lower the combat difficulty in the options (I don't quite remember what they were, but just crank the difficulty down). Then roll a character with a really high LUCK -- this is the important part. Since the diff is low, you can afford to go with low strength or other stat. With a super high luck, your chances of seeing the fun stuff go up dramatically. I've found this to be the fastest, easiest way to re-experience the game.

[Naked_Lunch]

N-L: Unarmed in FO1 was completely worthless without the powerfist
Get off the drugs, BNOL. I've beaten the game with a character with tagged unarmed.

I mean, you could probably get overpowered enough with other skills to make that work, but it was vastly less useful than small/energy/melee.
Obviously, you're using only your fists for fuck's sake so of course it's less powerful and probably not AS useful, but saying it's completely worthless without the power glove is dumb.

If you want to roleplay and try out different shit you can do make anything you want work, but that's also true in hated Bethesda games.
Most "role-playing" in Bethesda's games boils down to making a bunch of shit up in your head like "I am ogrniarman, son of the Fallen God Chickenfaggot" and then running around going "I am running everywhere because of the sins of my father and I must repent for them." It's digital LARPing. Fallout actually supports real role-playing by giving you hard stats to go with it and actual choices and consequences and all that good stuff.


And repair and science were usable in FO1, but they weren't useful.
Repair helped you solve a few quests and was needed to get the Power Armor (along with science I believe. OH MAN TWO FOR ONE.) Plus, science also allowed you to converse in-depth with ZAX and in my opinion, just that makes it useful for at least one playthrough.


Gambling was a terrible idea for a skill, actually, since it went from "complete waste of skill points" to "breaks the economy of the game" in the space of 5 or so points.
But it WAS useful, heh.

[Dave47]

Hey, I’m back with some more notes:

I’m glad it took me a while to get back to this thread. The initial “Oh, you must hate turn-based combat!” round of responses would have pissed me off, because I love turn based combat. I think that’s my real problem, actually. If you compare Fallout to most turn-based strategy games (whether table-top or electronic) it comes up short. If you compare it to RPGs, it’s a lot easier to take. I still feel fights take too long to resolve given how simple they are, though. And the combat AI is absolutely brain dead.

The economy is still a massive pain in the ass. I chose bartering as one of my starting skills, which means I immediately broke the game without realizing it, but I‘ve been making a conscious choice not to abuse the economy like that. My bigger problem is that there’s just not enough liquidity in the system. Every town is a game of “how can I convert the heavy crap I’m currently carrying into caps / weightless items?” The answer involves selling my rifle to some dude in exchange for 427 caps a pistol, and 3 knives. The knives are sold to another guy in exchange for 85 caps, and some fruit, which is sold to sold to yet another guy in exchange for all his caps. And so on. At first, it was interesting. Now it’s just a chore.

But boy am I digging this game anyway. I’ve decided to ditch the “logical” order of the progression, and am currently in way over my head in the ruins of Los Angeles. The discovery of which has made me realize that Shady Sands is somewhere in the Central Valley. (Bakersfield?) Which explains the farming, and also why it’s such a shit-hole. I picked up some Plasma Grenades from the Gun Runners, and actually had some decent luck against the big nasties on the surface, only to find out they respawn unless you kill their queen. And, given the poor lighting conditions down there, my grenades seem to go every which way. Including onto me. Time to come up with a new plan, I guess.

QUESTION: Can my bodyguards who can use “Any pistol” or “rifles” use the plasma pistol or plasma rifle? Because underpowered or not, I’m going to find a way to take those suckers down.

[Naked_Lunch]

The initial “Oh, you must hate turn-based combat!” round of responses would have pissed me off, because I love turn based combat.
Sorry mate, that's just the usual reason why people ditch Fallout so early on. My bad.

I’ve decided to ditch the “logical” order of the progression, and am currently in way over my head in the ruins of Los Angeles.
That's most of the fun of fallout is just doing things YOUR way and not the way some dipshit back at the Vault wants you to.


QUESTION: Can my bodyguards who can use “Any pistol” or “rifles” use the plasma pistol or plasma rifle? Because underpowered or not, I’m going to find way to take those suckers down.
Dunno, never tried myself aheh.

[roguefrog]

Yeah, most the followers, if I pick them up at all, are long dead before I arrive in LA. I don't try and keep them alive. If they die, I just keep going. In fact I pick them up just see how long they'll last "this time."

[Inactiviste]

This thread made me replay Fallout 2, which I had never finished. The game is pretty good, but mostly because it promises a lot of things, which it does not always deliver. But the sad thing is that as far as I know, no other game delivered what Fallout hinted at... So this eight year game is still something to consider whan you want to think to the future of RPGs !

Last time I played it, I was pretty much fed up with the dialogue, which I found too abundant to be a good gaming interface. This time around, I actually enjoy some of the lines, but I still fast forward to the lines where you have actual choice. I love to read books, not so much to read in videogames, where I'd rather make choices. Maybe the crappy dialogue presentation does not help... But I guess there are problems with the branched conversaton, which often results in a "guess what the developpers want" mini-game.

The combat is pretty bad, for a lot of reasons. It's too slow, because you have to wait for the NPCs to act... and the strategy mostly consists of targetting the eyes... You can't really use things like grenades if you don't have the appropriate skill, and there are better skills to have, so your tactics are pretty much uni-dimensional. If you're not overpowered, the result of a fight often depends of luck, because a big critical hit is what separates victory from defeat. I'm in Redding, the part where you've got to clean the mine... That fight is awful, far too long and boring for its own good (and I don't know how you're supposed to tank the wannabigos without the power armour)...

I guess there's more strategy involved in a good jRPG like SMT: Nocturne or DQ 8 (but the fights are much more central in those games). Or just go Fire Emblem if you want turn-based strategy goodness ! Well I guess it's an incentive to play a diplomat type character.

So, as a game, Fallout is good but not great. As an idea box, it' great, one of the most interesting RPGs (alongside Ultima VII). I'd like to see other open endend rpgs (I did not play Oblivion, because Morrowind was not my cup of tea), maybe a little less repetitive, but with more politics in it (the way you can choose whether Redding is going to be dominated by the NCR, or New Reno is good, but there should be more things like that, and the story could capitalize more on those choices).

Sorry for the long, kinda confused post !

[Unicorn McGriddle]

Those mines in Redding are a bitch. I like to wait until I can kill those bug monsters reasonably fast. If you're plinking them with a shitty automatic pistol and hoping your leather jacket will protect you, maybe you should get topside and look for raiders to kill.

[Inactiviste]

Well, I've got the advanced power armour MK II and a big Magnum, around 160 small arms but I just can't be bothered to track down all these critters. It's just lame game design at this point.

[Dave47]

The saga continues. (Spoiler warning for the other people also currently playing Fallout.)

I finally solved Vault 13’s water chip problem. I was totally thrown by the fact that Fallout’s Bakersfield is not where Earth’s Bakersfield is. Or perhaps the map just doesn’t have “up” equate directly to “North,” I’m not sure. Whatever the explanation, I spent a loooong time wandering the wastes before I realized that you can’t just magically will a Vault into existence where you think it ought to be. I eventually gave up on searching the wastes, returned to the Hub, and caught the clue that I somehow missed before: The Necropolis is the only city that doesn’t deal with the water merchants. I’d previously been to the Necropolis, but I hadn’t noticed the manhole covers, so I just milled around the Hotel and left. But this time I knew I needed to go into the sewers. So I returned to the Necropolis only to find….

Corpses. Everywhere. And big-ass mutant invaders all up in the Necropolis’s grill. I try to initiate a conversation (the guys at the Army Base had been totally cool chatting with me) and they annihilate my hearty band. At which point I realize I hadn’t saved during my jaunt across the wastes. Shit. I load up my previous game, and find that the mutant invasion hasn’t happened yet. I negotiate with the ghoul underground, get the water chip, and fix their water pump, even though I know they’ve only got like a month left to live.

I think it’s pretty neat that the Mutant Army doesn‘t wait around for you, although the window is pretty small: Even if you don’t use the 100 day Water Merchant extension, the Necropolis is toast long before you need to complete the Chip quest. I don’t know if my character could have completed the chain with all those big mutants roaming around, although perhaps a quick talker such as myself could have convinced the Overseer to move the Vault’s population to Shady Sands.

I’m really digging the things Fallout does well, but I’m also kind of frustrated at how incomplete a lot of the ideas and events are. I’m starting to understand why everyone makes on-rails experiences these days: Open-ended games must be a real bitch to balance / script. But I'm glad that people try.

[worm]

Cue N_L to explain how you're wrong for being frustrated with the perfect game.

[Incendiary Lemon]

I think it’s pretty neat that the Mutant Army doesn‘t wait around for you, although the window is pretty small: Even if you don’t use the 100 day Water Merchant extension, the Necropolis is toast long before you need to complete the Chip quest.

For that reason the Mutant Invasion was removed in the later patches. You must be playing 1.0?

[Alan Au]

QUESTION: Can my bodyguards who can use “Any pistol” or “rifles” use the plasma pistol or plasma rifle? Because underpowered or not, I’m going to find a way to take those suckers down."Any pistol" and "any rifle" refer to weapons requiring the "small guns" skill. Also, do not under any circumstances give your party members burst-fire weapons.

- Alan

[Bill Dungsroman]

Yes, it can go slow sometimes but FO wasn't a party-based game.
Yes it was. Well, it could be, if you like formed a party and had the requisite CHA. Come on NL. You had a party. Ergo, it was a party-based game.

Then again, you're right, for the wrong reasons. Obviously it was Black Isle's intention to make NPCs with heavy emphasis on the N, but since there wasn't much in the way of the C...well, who gives a shit? What, exactly, is the benefit to gameplay or story to have to fucking barter with your NPCs to simply have them hold something? I don't even want to think about how many reloads I had to do because I either got shot by an NPC, or the dummy ran straight up to an enemy when we had range to soften them up with grenades (like that Deathclaw in the basement - turned an otherwise awesome encounter into a nightmare). You guys say "Fuck 'em" or "Don't give them burst weapons, Dummy" and I say I've never played an RPG that encourages you to build a party and then lets them be stupidly wiped out because Woo, they're NPCS - they're not you, Bud and you have horrific control over them.

I mean, the KotOR and BG games had NPCs doing all kinds of interesting things and until they did something that rationally disallowed you from being able to control them anymore, you had full control over them. I had full control over my NPCs in the Gold Box SSI games, ffs (conversely, I dug Troika limiting NPCs in ToEE because we all know dodgy NPCs are the rule in PnP D&D).

Saying the FO games are "lone wolf" games is just bullshit. It has to be the gayest twist of apologismic logic I've seen for a game.



If you hit one in the eye, it could just be a glancing blow and not deal that much damage.
Since this is hardly the first nay the last unrealistic damaging model/outcome in the history of games, I've no problem with it, I guess. But you sound like a dummy with your rationale. Yes, trying to run after a rat and kill with a knife or shoot it while it is moving is pretty tough (although I'd wager it's easier when they are not running away but actively attacking you), but shooting one in the eye for a glancing blow? Man, only Lord British could get away with that.

Equally gay: your contention that First Aid is anything above superfluous at best, useless at worst.



Everything in that post is true except for the part about Bill.

Ha ha, really? You fed me a pack of lies about FO3 ("I've been around. I hear things. Things you wouldn't believe, Mister.") and not only did I shoot them down with the goodly help of the Qt3 Forum Super Squad, my nizzle Kitsune done linked you to an interview you'd never even read. And then, blithering nonsense invective replete with a gradeschooler closing shot like an ant-ridden cherry on a soured banana split of awful, and what has to be the worst apology ever in a PM unless everyone's idea of a good apology is to call the other person an ass and tell them to "deal with it."

But hey, you maintain Fallout was a single-player game. Which means, simply put, you have no definitive, lucid grasp on reality.

[spiffy]

But hey, you maintain Fallout was a single-player game. Which means, simply put, you have no definitive, lucid grasp on reality.

There was multiplayer in Fallout? doh.

[Bill Dungsroman]

There was multiplayer in Fallout? doh.
Single character - excuse me, Pedantry-Pants.

[Kadath]

Also, if you look around, you should be able to find a Fallout 1/2 bundle for $9.99 in the budget games sections of places like Circuit City, CompUSA, Best Buy, Hastings, Walmart, etc. It's one of those little cardboard multi-fold envelopes in the section with the 10,000 clipart, learn Spanish, and fishtank screensavers disks.

Wound up buying a british version with FO1, FO2 and Tactics on 1 DVD for under $20 shipped. I'm going on vacation soon so not worried about getting it fast, and having all on DVD is a nice bonus. Not sure if they come with printed manuals or PDFs but I'm guessing the latter.

Hmmmm, now I'm tempted to go find a C64 emulator and find a copy of Wasteland somewhere =)

Sam

[Kadath]

Think I'm gonna go look for copies of Planescape Torment and Vampire Bloodlines too, never played either of them but hear they were good, especially with some community patches....

sam

[roguefrog]

I recall a Fallout dev saying the joinable NPCs in Fallout were a late drop-in feature i.e. not a intended feature day one like in Baldur's Gate, or KotOR, or Torment. I mean it does feels like a single-character game with the joinable non-controllable NPCs tacked on...with wet scratch tape.

No remorse for Fallout 2 (18 month dev cycle go! go! go!)

[roguefrog]

For that reason the Mutant Invasion was removed in the later patches. You must be playing 1.0?

The mutant invasion of Necropolis was left in post-patch.

[Sarkus]

Hmmmm, now I'm tempted to go find a C64 emulator and find a copy of Wasteland somewhere =)

Sam

You'll have to be pretty hardcore gamer to stomach any game that requires paragraph booklets in this day and age.

[Lloyd Heilbrunn]

I'm still upset I could not win the last battle without losing Dogmeat.:(

[JMR]

Heh me too.

[Dave47]

I'm still upset I could not win the last battle without losing Dogmeat.:(

You should have used a spolier tag. Ass.

Nah, just kidding. Anyway, I’ve cleared the Military Base, so only the Master is left. I assume he’s lurking in that part of the Cathedral I haven’t been able to access, and if he’s not, I’m sure someone up there will be able to tell me where’s he’s hiding. I actually sort of took out the Military Base “by accident:” I was just goofing around, but discovered that I could talk and sneak my way through to the control room, only having to kill one mutant along the way. But I think part of that was due to game bugs, so it took some of the fun out.

I am indeed playing version 1.0. It might explain why I’ve been encountering so many small problems, but I can’t upgrade now without losing my save games. It’s a shame that the mutant invasion isn’t a “toggle” option in later versions; I still haven’t decided if I like or dislike it.

I totally agree with what people have said about the NPCs. Their implementation is incredibly bad. I have great Charisma and Int at the expense of combat skills, so I get a lot of mileage from my trusty followers. It wasn’t a problem for most of the game, but it’s become a giant pain now. The NPCs are totally not balanced: Ian is incredibly badass when you find him at level 1, and so are all the other early NPCs. Then the late game NPCs…. Don’t exist. It’s a terrible design decision: You can get through two-thirds of the game leaning heavily on your buddies, but then you suddenly hit this brick wall. I’ve kept them alive through everything so far because I’m worried I won’t be able to beat the game without them. I need every drop of combat potential I can muster.

If the NPCs were intended to be disposable (and their lack of personality makes me think they were) there really should have been more of them. It’s the post-apocalyptic future. Why can’t I hire mercenaries? It would be a much more reasonable dynamic than having a very limited number of super-boring gunmen who are absolutely dedicated to you for no good reason, but have the tactical sense of a turnip.

[spiffy]

You should have used a spolier tag. Ass.


I totally agree with what people have said about the NPCs. Their implementation is incredibly bad. I have great Charisma and Int at the expense of combat skills, so I get a lot of mileage from my trusty followers. It wasn’t a problem for most of the game, but it’s become a giant pain now. The NPCs are totally not balanced: Ian is incredibly badass when you find him at level 1, and so are all the other early NPCs. Then the late game NPCs…. Don’t exist. It’s a terrible design decision: You can get through two-thirds of the game leaning heavily on your buddies, but then you suddenly hit this brick wall. I’ve kept them alive through everything so far because I’m worried I won’t be able to beat the game without them. I need every drop of combat potential I can muster.

If the NPCs were intended to be disposable (and their lack of personality makes me think they were) there really should have been more of them. It’s the post-apocalyptic future. Why can’t I hire mercenaries? It would be a much more reasonable dynamic than having a very limited number of super-boring gunmen who are absolutely dedicated to you for no good reason, but have the tactical sense of a turnip.

I think Fallout 2 addressed those concerns by providing more high-level NPC's for your party (the interface was ass and they stilll weren't smart, but at least they could do damage and stay alive.) As for Fallout 1, I don't remember the manual stressing charisma as a party-making thing as much as an attribute to 'charm' individuals into liking you, for information-collecting purposes and the like. You still needed a viable skill for getting past baddies, so if you were ignoring weaponry skills then you ought to have been boosting your sneak. Personally, my first run through Fallout I didn't even know I could have party members other than dogmeat, who followed me around automatically. I had initially refused Ian and then forgot about him, and that was that.

[Bill Dungsroman]

I recall a Fallout dev saying the joinable NPCs in Fallout were a late drop-in feature i.e. not a intended feature day one like in Baldur's Gate, or KotOR, or Torment. I mean it does feels like a single-character game with the joinable non-controllable NPCs tacked on...with wet scratch tape.

No remorse for Fallout 2 (18 month dev cycle go! go! go!)
Which is one of the primary reasons I'd rank any of the games you mention above the Fallout games in terms of greatness.

[Incendiary Lemon]

If anyone is planning on giving F2 another playthrough you should checkout Killap's F2 Patch (http://nma-fallout.com/forum/dload.php?action=file&file_id=704). The changelog is quite lengthy taking care of most of the issues that I could remember.

If you don't have the US edition of F2 then you'll need this (http://nma-fallout.com/forum/dload.php?action=file&file_id=705) version of his patch.

[spiffy]

Which is one of the primary reasons I'd rank any of the games you mention above the Fallout games in terms of greatness.

basing greatness on technical who-dunnit-when-sies is strange to me.

[JoshV]

BG1's NPCs didn't truly feel realized much until BG2, and I still think Torment did a better job then both. And Fallout2, at least you could talk to your wife err i mean your NPCs.

[Ben]

spiffy- I assume he meant the way the NPCs in Fallout 1 seem tacked on rather than a part of the core game. Planescape without the party simply doesn't work. The party members have inter-relationships as well as roles in the plot.

Fallout 1's most memorable party member is a dog.

[Kadath]

You'll have to be pretty hardcore gamer to stomach any game that requires paragraph booklets in this day and age.

Heh, as long as I dont have to build my own cardboard secret decoder ring =)

[countzero]

After reading this thread I also tried to finished Fallout. But now I'm at a point, where I have to go to The Glow and cannot finish the game, because I don't find anyone who could sell me these RadX and RadAway pills. I wandered for hours, consulted walkthroughs and nothing helps. I cannot find a merchand who's got them. This shouldn't happen.

[Lizard_King]

After reading this thread I also tried to finished Fallout. But now I'm at a point, where I have to go to The Glow and cannot finish the game, because I don't find anyone who could sell me these RadX and RadAway pills. I wandered for hours, consulted walkthroughs and nothing helps. I cannot find a merchand who's got them. This shouldn't happen.
That's odd, I don't recall having a problem stockpiling those. I will say that for replays of the game I definitely used character trainers (plentiful for both) to bump radiation resistance to 100% artificially. It's cheap but removes some of the more irritating game mechanics.

[Incendiary Lemon]

If your dumb enough the guard at the BOS will give you rad-x for free (along with instructions on how to swallow them!)

However nearly all of the merchants carry rad-x and rad away. The general store in the hub should have plenty.

[countzero]

If your dumb enough the guard at the BOS will give you rad-x for free (along with instructions on how to swallow them!)

However nearly all of the merchants carry rad-x and rad away. The general store in the hub should have plenty.

That's exactly what's irritating me so much: No one has them, not even the general store.

[extarbags]

That's odd, I don't recall having a problem stockpiling those.

Same here. In fact, that was the only part of either game that I ever used them, so I had more than enough that I had just taken off of the people I killed.

[countzero]

All right, found a solution. Made a run to the glow, first floor. Got the disk and the radx and radaway there. After that I could join the brotherhood and had access to radx. But I still don't understand, why I cannot find any in town... Well, nevermind...

[Bill Dungsroman]

You might have skimped on random encounters. That could explain it.

[Qmanol]

The drug dealer in the Hub usually has at least one type of the anti-rad meds.

[russellmz00]

dogmeat spoiler:
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
it is possible to save dogmeat, at least i read that somewhere
.
.
.
.
you got to time it some at the forcefields so dogmeat gets stuck and can't follow you at the end.
.
.
.
.
.

.
.

[Alan Au]

You only need 2 RadX for the whole game, since those two will bump you up to 100% resistance for a couple of hours and your NPCs don't care about radiation. You have to stop on the world map just short of the Glow, take 'em, and then continue on and complete the Glow without playing too many games of chess or reading textbooks (or anything that causes time to pass). If you really can't find any RadX, try the ice chests in Children of the Cathedral store room (Boneyards/L.A.). Worst case, there's plenty of RadAway in the Glow medical area.

- Alan