Ann Coulter: plagiarist?

[z0diac]

http://tinyurl.com/zu4ps

Interesting. It seems there might be a pattern of cribbing short passages in her books and columns. I'm looking forward to hearing her excuse (liberal editors FTW?).

[Greatatlantic]

If a university professor were to publish something with that many unattributed verbatim lifts they'd probably loose their job and their credibility. Plagriasim is serious stuff. The problem is Ann Coulter has no credibility to begin with. She's the journalistic equivalent of Holocaust Deniers: make outrageous and unprovable claims that people will believe not because the evidence of truth is there, but because they want to believe it. Meh, I stopped carrying about her career a long time ago. The only thing that upsets me is when other news outlets give her air time.

[skedastic]

It's awful when professors loose their jobs and credibility. Unfettered, the jobs and credibility go rampaging across the land, leaving a trail of destruction in their wake.

[Linoleum]

Do you really want to believe that there are more people out there that write like her?

[Rob Beschizza]

Would anyone who cares about this kind of activity have any respect for Coulter that they might lose as a result of it?

My guess is that Coulter's target audience won't mind either, because they see her writing as a kind of vanguard political action anyway, not work of literary credibility or merit. Though the fantastical array of half-baked footnoting in her books suggests she might think it is.

[Andrew Mayer]

Would anyone who cares about this kind of activity have any respect for Coulter that they might lose as a result of it?

My guess is that Coulter's target audience won't mind either, because they see her writing as a kind of vanguard political action anyway, not work of literary credibility or merit. Though the fantastical array of half-baked footnoting in her books suggests she might think it is.

It's not only her credibility that's at stake here though. It's the editors, syndicators, and the journals that choose to publish her work.

[Moore]

Yeah, because they are credible.

[Jason McCullough]

The amusing part is this story will probably get more attention than her wishing death on people.

[Bob Cherub]

The amusing part is this story will probably get more attention than her wishing death on people.

I forget, were you up in arms when Al Franken said Karl Rove should be executed or when Alec Baldwin said Dick Cheney should die? Oh yeah never mind.

Wow, two dozen word strings. In a 300+ page book that is SHOCKING.

I wonder what would be the result if you ran Michael Moore's books or Al Franken's books through ITHENTICATE.

Oh yeah never mind that will never happen.

[MikeJ]

Wow, two dozen word strings. In a 300+ page book that is SHOCKING.


Do you mean that this is likely to happen by chance in a book that long? Or is it that you're allowed a certain amount of plagiarism per chapter?

[Bill Dungsroman]

Seriously, for a second I thought this thread was called Anne Coulter: Poltergiest and there was much understanding and rejoicing in the Dungsroman household.

[Midnight Son]

She's a stupid hateful bitch and a plagiarist? Priceless.

[z0diac]

I forget, were you up in arms when Al Franken said Karl Rove should be executed or when Alec Baldwin said Dick Cheney should die? Oh yeah never mind.

I believe Al Franken pointed out that if Karl Rove were to be found guilty of leaking a CIA agent's name, and it fell under the definition of treason, then he could be executed. Mind you, this was banter spoken on Letterman in an obviously (well, maybe not to wingnuts) half-joking manner. It was only a big deal to the hyper-sensitve <siren>DRUDGE HEADLINE</siren> readers.

I wonder what would be the result if you ran Michael Moore's books or Al Franken's books through ITHENTICATE.

I'm sure some right-wing blog is crosschecking Lexus-Nexus right now. Feel free to post in this thread when you spot the results.

[VegasRobb]

I have no doubt that those books were checked, double-checked, and rechecked by people hoping to find a way to discredit the authors.

If the allegations are true, I have to admit that I'm surprised. Well, maybe not. I wouldn't be surprised in Ms. Coulter handled her book the same way she handles herself in the media. Damn the torpedos.

I think I understand where Bob Cherub is coming from, but I'm curious to see the final tally of word-strings and how large the strings are. Stuff like "We The People" or "Jesus Wept" ... big deal.

As for stealing from another author; that hotshot Ivy League teen author was throttled by the press and eventually her publisher after attempts at damage control failed. Here's a link to the Slate article: http://www.slate.com/id/2140683/?nav=fo

If the allegations are true I actually don't expect to hear much about it. Who's going to talk about it?

[Robert Sharp]

Read the article, Robb. Anywhere from 24 to 48 word strings seem to be suggested (from memory..I won't read it twice even to post about it).

[Unicorn McGriddle]

The story's incomplete without reproducing the passages in question. On the other hand, in the grand scheme of things, my interest is zero.

[bago]

But if they reproduced it they would be plagarising/violating copyright!

Alternatively titled: Do you really think you can lay the flim flam down in the age of the internet and AI?

Those tubes will get you.

[Andrew Mayer]

Here's an interview with the person who did the analysis:

http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Countdown-Coulter-Plagiarism.wmv

[Jason McCullough]

List of the plagarized sections: http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/001070.php

[jeffd]

There's only one or two in there that seem to be obvious and outright plagiarism. The others seem to arguably be "only so many ways to say things"

[Squirrel Killer]

It's too bad they mix bad examples like "Read My Lips: No New Liberals,” Aug. 5, 2005's Example 3 (extended Souter quote) and "Thou Shalt Not Commit Religion," June 29, 2005 Example 6 (how do you descibe Piss Christ without using "Christ" or "urine", the only two words in both) with obviously plagiarized Godless Examples 1 and 3 or High Crimes and Misdemeanors Example 2.

[Damien Falgoust]

No kidding, SK. A bunch of the ones from the No New Liberals column are direct quotations of David Souter. Not only would you expect those to mirror the source material, it would be irresponsible if they didn't.

[Flowers]

I am not bothered much by plagiarism.

In my line of work, I am constantly astounded at how often people are required to pass of my work as their own. Whenever I make an assertion, I am required to do so by citing two to five court cases that speak for me. Sometimes, I barely need the connective tissue of transitional phrases to write my briefs. Nevertheless, I do frequently see my musings between the lines and "howevers, other hands and althoughs" turning up in paperwork with other people's names attached. I am perfectly fine with this, mostly because I don't rely on writing samples to get laid. If I did, I would be up in arms. Moving on....

Judges form their opinions based largely on the assertions laid out in one or more briefs submitted by parties to a controversy. If Souter said anything about anything, the smart money is on him having read, been swayed, and his particular opinions constituted by one of the briefs that he read. Then you realize that the clerks wrote most of the opinion, and their names are not attached. So, don't worry about plagiarizing the Supreme Court, they do it all the time. Turnabout's fair play.

Anyways, I would say that, because there are so many people, not much you can do or say is original. If you are the first person to say a particular thing publically, that's great for you. If not, a nod would be nice, but really, when you open your mouth in a public forum, you contribute to the discourse and if you didn't do so in the hopes that people would hear, agree, and imitate you, you're probably Frank Zappa.

I had a professor of Urdu Prose who was of the opinion that the West places too much emphasis on ownership of particular thoughts. I am inclined to agree.

I can't get worked up about the prospect that Ann Coulter might be a bit slapdash at times.

[Andrew Mayer]

I am not bothered much by plagiarism.

In my line of work, I am constantly astounded at how often people are required to pass of my work as their own. Whenever I make an assertion, I am required to do so by citing two to five court cases that speak for me. Sometimes, I barely need the connective tissue of transitional phrases to write my briefs. Nevertheless, I do frequently see my musings between the lines and "howevers, other hands and althoughs" turning up in paperwork with other people's names attached. I am perfectly fine with this, mostly because I don't rely on writing samples to get laid. If I did, I would be up in arms. Moving on....

Judges form their opinions based largely on the assertions laid out in one or more briefs submitted by parties to a controversy. If Souter said anything about anything, the smart money is on him having read, been swayed, and his particular opinions constituted by one of the briefs that he read. Then you realize that the clerks wrote most of the opinion, and their names are not attached. So, don't worry about plagiarizing the Supreme Court, they do it all the time. Turnabout's fair play.

Anyways, I would say that, because there are so many people, not much you can do or say is original. If you are the first person to say a particular thing publically, that's great for you. If not, a nod would be nice, but really, when you open your mouth in a public forum, you contribute to the discourse and if you didn't do so in the hopes that people would hear, agree, and imitate you, you're probably Frank Zappa.

I had a professor of Urdu Prose who was of the opinion that the West places too much emphasis on ownership of particular thoughts. I am inclined to agree.

I can't get worked up about the prospect that Ann Coulter might be a bit slapdash at times.

I, on the other hand, am constantly astounded at how often people are tempted to pass of the work of others their own. I do not enjoy seeing my ideas turning up in paperwork with other people's names attached.

Unlike you, I am not fine with this, in spite of the fact there are so many people, not much you can do or say is original.

When you open your mouth in a public forum, you contribute to the discourse but you do so in the hopes that people would hear, agree, and build on your ideas.

There was a professor of Urdu Prose who was of the opinion that the West places too much emphasis on ownership of particular thoughts. Some people are inclined to agree, but I'm not one of them.

The prospect that Ann Coulter might be a bit "slapdash" gets me worked up.

[Matthew Gallant]

There's no issue here-- if Ann Coulter is stealing your ideas that means they were worthless anyway.

[Rob Beschizza]

Plagiarism isn't copying an idea, it's copying a specific expression of an idea.

[Doug Erickson]

That's a pretty weak case of plagiarism -- it doesn't even approach the Stephen Glass bar, much less my high school history essay bar.

Ann Coulter is a professional troll and little else, and she's making bank entirely on how creative and convincing she is with her approach. She's a comedian with a specific albeit large audience. My old man reads her and nods his head in a sort of gleeful syncopation to her rhythmic sequences of increasingly hyperbolic modifiers, and when I say "you seriously don't buy that shit, do you?" he laughs and says YES, YES I DO DOUG YOU SHRILL, OBNOXIOUS LIBERAL.

Folks don't read Ann for political ammunition. They read it because the thought of the histrionic liberal reaction puts a smile on their faces. Ultimately, she's a type of political porn, just like Al Franken is liberal porn (admittedly better informed porn, but porn nonetheless) and having a hysterical opinion on porn is, as ever, possibly creepier than the porn itself.

EDIT: Philip Glass LOLZ.

[forgeforsaken]

That's a pretty weak case of plagiarism -- it doesn't even approach the Philip Glass bar, much less my high school history essay bar.

Do you mean Stephen Glass? He wasn't so much a plagiarist as he just blatantly made shit up and pretended it was real.

[Benhur]

That's a pretty weak case of plagiarism -- it doesn't even approach the Philip Glass bar, much less my high school history essay bar.


Philip Glass is a minimalist and therefore plagiarizes himself. For example, he uses the exact same arpegio combintations in Powaqqatsi, Itiapu, Symphony No. 5 and Glassworks.

[Robert Sharp]

Plagiarism isn't copying an idea, it's copying a specific expression of an idea.

I'm afraid you are wrong here, and I hope you don't use this definition for your professional work or it will get you in big trouble.

[Chris Nahr]

I don't think he's talking about science where "ideas" can mean very specific concepts. In novels or politics there are only a few ideas to go around so copying them is a non-issue. The worst you'd face is bad reviews.

[Mark Crump]

I'm afraid you are wrong here, and I hope you don't use this definition for your professional work or it will get you in big trouble.

The idea itself isn't copywriteable--how many books or movies have you seen where the plot is basically a knock off of another work?

It's not plagarism if you and I each write a murder mystery where the butler, who is a pervert and a paranoid, commited the crime.

It's plagarism if I damn near copy you word for word.

[Rob Beschizza]

I'm afraid you are wrong here, and I hope you don't use this definition for your professional work or it will get you in big trouble.

Merely "copying an idea" isn't a form of plagiarism that will get anyone in big trouble, though it might be unwise. Plagiarism involves passing off another's work as if it were your own, or claiming credit for work done. Something has to actually exist in tangible form for it to be work in the sense the law is interested in, which is why mere "ideas" are not copyrighted and cannot be trademarked or patented.

Ideas are copied all the time. Concept like "plagiarism" and "copyright" and so on exist to help us define the boundaries of moral and legal acceptability in how others' ideas are presented and developed in ones' own work.

[Lunch of Kong]

A copyright violation is a civil matter for which the law allows remedies. A charge of plagiarism is not. Plagiarism is an ethical matter. What constitutes plagiarism varies with the organization that defines it. At some universities, it's even possible to plagiarize yourself!

[Flowers]

I am constantly astounded at how often people are tempted to pass of the work of others their own. [...] I do [...] enjoy seeing my ideas turning up [...] with other people's names attached.

I [...] am fine with this, [...] the fact there are so many people, not much you can do or say is original.

When you open your mouth in a public forum, you contribute to the discourse but you do so in the hopes that people would hear, agree, and build on your ideas.

There was a professor of Urdu Prose who was of the opinion that the West places too much emphasis on ownership of particular thoughts. Some people are inclined to agree,[...] I'm [...] one of them.

The prospect that Ann Coulter might be a bit "slapdash" gets me worked up.
Quoted for Truth...


Or was it?

[Rob Beschizza]

"Matching text is not plagiarism," Lee Salem, editor and president of Universal Press Syndicate, said Monday in a statement."

I guess that means it's O.K.