MASSIVE Magazine

[SirBruce]

From the editors of Computer Games Magazine comes:

MASSIVE Magazine (http://massive-magazine.com/)

The last print mag we had dedicated to MMOGs (MOG Magazine) died after only one issue, so I hope this new venture is more successful!

Bruce

[Jason McMaster]

I'll be impressed if there's even remotely enough content to keep this going.

[mouselock]

Well, there goes half the content I found interesting in CGM...

[SirBruce]

I'll be impressed if there's even remotely enough content to keep this going.

Why would you say that? There's 30+ MMOGs out there, not counting all the Asian ones, and 100 in development. Every month you're going to have patch notes on a bunch of games, a review of an expansion, a couple of previews of games in development, probably an interview with a developer, some nice columns, maybe an in-depth walkthrough of a zone or something... MOG Magazine wasn't lacking for content, that's for sure.

Bruce

[Jason McMaster]

I meant interesting content.

[SirBruce]

Oh, well, fair enough. :)

Bruce

[Fugitive]

There's a wide enough choice of MMOGs, but is there a wide enough range of interest in each individual gamer? Considering the amount of time a single MMOG soaks up, will people really want to read about a couple dozen other games they'll never have time to play?

[Moggraider]

Probably not. I thought CGM was thin enough as it is. I hope this doesn't detract from it.

[Balasarius]

will people really want to read about a couple dozen other games they'll never have time to play?
Not me.

[Ephraim]

I guess my biggest concern about a print magazine focused on MMOs is that it just doesn't make a lot of sense.

MMOs are online (duh). So are the fan sites, official forums, guild forums, etc... Patch notes, both upcoming and past, are easily found online (yes, there's that word again).

I don't know how a print magazine is going to satisfy any multiple MMOGamer, they'll already be getting their content on a daily basis on that fancy shmancy Internet thingamabob. Possibly from HRose's blog.

[Cold Blooded]

About time someone had the courage to take those "snobby Japs" (http://massive-magazine.com/content/view/223/6/) to task...?

[Jason McMaster]

The way that the Internet, which is of course the most important part of MMO's, changes constantly is the biggest problem with a MMO print mag. A print mag has to have considerably lead time to appear recent. So, what do you do then? To keep everything relevant you need to be able to predict the future or end up writing stories that could double as Reader's Digest submissions.

[SirBruce]

While I was initially skeptical about such a magazine as well, what I saw in MOG Magazine convinced me. There was something different about having all that stuff readily accessible in print form, with all those pretty pictures, that made it worthwhile.

The points about "But MMOGs are all online, so you can find out everything you need to there" make sense, until you consider -- in the modern Internet age, the same is true for ALL other computer and video games as well. Non-MMOGs get plenty of coverage in forums and fan sites and patch notes and reviews and stuff online as well. It's rare that I first hear about ANY game in a review in CGW or CG. So it's unfair to single out MMOGs on this point.

As for being interested in dozens of other games I'll never play... well, yes, I am, because I'm interested in the industry, and I might find something that catches my attention. And again, this is hardly MMOG-specific; I'm not interested in dozens of other games that print magazines cover, either.

Bruce

[Jason McMaster]

True, but gaming magazines have the advantage of possibly reaching people who don't look stuff up on the internet (such as games). If you play an MMO you are definitely on.

[SirBruce]

I'm not convinced that people who play MMOs are that much more likely to look stuff up on the Internet about games than regular PC gamers. I certainly know plenty of WoW players that don't really surf the web, and plenty of non-MMOG players that surf the web all the time.

Bruce

[Bill Dungsroman]

As I understand it, the first three issues are free, but then you get billed every month for the rest :(

[olaf]

I think a magazine that does nothing but cover and discuss WoW could make it.

olaf

[RickH]

Well, there goes half the content I found interesting in CGM...

That's funny, I immediately thought "there goes the stuff I didn't read in CGM."

[steve]

The way that the Internet, which is of course the most important part of MMO's, changes constantly is the biggest problem with a MMO print mag. A print mag has to have considerably lead time to appear recent. So, what do you do then?
You don't try to be up-to-date. That's why there will be no reviews and few previews.

There are plenty of issues about MMOs that have nothing to do with what's being covered every day on various websites. Think feature stories that, hopefully, are worth reading. Plus we'll have editorials from people like Richard Bartle and others.

It shouldn't have much impact on the MMO coverage in CGM. We won't do an annual "Massively Multiplayer Issue," but the month-to-month stuff will remain.

(Edit: It's also quarterly.)

[steve]

Probably not. I thought CGM was thin enough as it is. I hope this doesn't detract from it.
Count the edit pages; we have as much or more editorial than everyone. The magazine is only thin because we have fewer ads.

[Ryan A]

About time someone had the courage to take those "snobby Japs" (http://massive-magazine.com/content/view/223/6/) to task...?

Clearly you've misunderstood the article. The person who made the "snobby Japs" comment is being held up for ridicule.

[SirBruce]

Only quarterly? Bummer. I realize it's hard to sell ad space in a new mag, but I think you should at least try for bi-monthly. Look at The Escapist; they have tons of content that would help fill up a bi-monthly mag. Of course, they're also paying very well.

I didn't see submission guidelines up on the website yet. Maybe you're only accepting solicited articles, but there are a lot of MMO writers out there.

Bruce

[Poops McGee]

I clicked the link to check it out and boom, the first pic in their rotating linup is a City of Heroes shot that has the Qt3 group! My old character, Gruntwork is there alongside all the other Target brand heroes!

[Moggraider]

Count the edit pages; we have as much or more editorial than everyone. The magazine is only thin because we have fewer ads.


Alright alright, relax, hehe. It's still the only PC mag I subscribe to.

[Mark Asher]

I guess my biggest concern about a print magazine focused on MMOs is that it just doesn't make a lot of sense.

MMOs are online (duh). So are the fan sites, official forums, guild forums, etc... Patch notes, both upcoming and past, are easily found online (yes, there's that word again).

I don't know how a print magazine is going to satisfy any multiple MMOGamer, they'll already be getting their content on a daily basis on that fancy shmancy Internet thingamabob. Possibly from HRose's blog.

Well, I might read about WoW on the web but I wouldn't mind a monthly print mag with good summaries of what's going on in games I don't play. There's an overload of information on the web about these games. I want someone to sift through it and summarize it for me for the games I don't play.

The only thing I'm not sure of is if I want to read about the games I don't play.

[SirBruce]

Alright alright, relax, hehe. It's still the only PC mag I subscribe to.

I subscribe to both Computer Games and Computer Gaming World and like them both. PC Gamer I don't like as much, but they WERE the magazine that interviewed me, so I have to give them SOME dap...

I'll definitely be picking up Massive.

Bruce

[simoniker]

Oddly enough, Beckett (the baseball card trading mag guys) just launched an MMO mag:

http://www.gamesetwatch.com/2006/06/beckett_online_gamer_ganks_int.php

Has anyone checked it out? I think it might be a bit tragic. Also, last time I ran something on Beckett and/or Massive, someone emailed me to give me hell for not mentioning a _third_ MMO mag in the works. And now I can't remember what it is. Anyone?

[Mark Asher]

I thumbed through the Beckett magazine. It looked ok, a lot of WoW stuff, including a big foldout poster. Nothing really grabbed me though.

These MMO mags will probably be 50% WoW and 50% divided among another dozen games.

[Moggraider]

Considering 50% of the entire worldwide MMO population plays WoW, that sounds about fair to me.

[SirBruce]

Oddly enough, Beckett (the baseball card trading mag guys) just launched an MMO mag:

http://www.gamesetwatch.com/2006/06/beckett_online_gamer_ganks_int.php

Has anyone checked it out? I think it might be a bit tragic. Also, last time I ran something on Beckett and/or Massive, someone emailed me to give me hell for not mentioning a _third_ MMO mag in the works. And now I can't remember what it is. Anyone?

This one?

http://www.mmo-gamer.com/

Bruce

[steve]

Only quarterly? Bummer. I realize it's hard to sell ad space in a new mag, but I think you should at least try for bi-monthly. Look at The Escapist; they have tons of content that would help fill up a bi-monthly mag. Of course, they're also paying very well.
The Escapist doesn't have print bills for each issue.

The challenge isn't finding or paying for content; it's generating enough revenue from newsstand sales and advertising to make a profit. Going out bi-monthly would be risky, because you'd already have a second issue out there before you know if the first is selling. We're not in a position to put out a year's worth of issues that lose $100,000 per.


I didn't see submission guidelines up on the website yet. Maybe you're only accepting solicited articles, but there are a lot of MMO writers out there.
Sure, there are a lot of MMO writers out there; if they were interested, they should have contacted us when we announced the magazine three months ago. The first issue is mostly assigned out to writers and in production.

The first issue of Massive won't have anything close to 50% of the content devoted to World of WarCraft. It's not a news/reviews/previews/tips magazine. But its features will be relevant to WoW players, as well as those of other games.

It's a little different from other game magazines. I hope people dig it.

[SirBruce]

The Escapist doesn't have print bills for each issue.

Yeah, the Internet age sucks, doesn't it? At least magazines are holding up better than newspapers. :) As Egon said, "Print is dead."



The challenge isn't finding or paying for content; it's generating enough revenue from newsstand sales and advertising to make a profit. Going out bi-monthly would be risky, because you'd already have a second issue out there before you know if the first is selling. We're not in a position to put out a year's worth of issues that lose $100,000 per.

Right, that's why I mentioned ads before. Here's hoping your first few issues are so successful you'll switch to bi-monthly soon. :) My concern would be that sales will be reduced unless it comes out often enough to stick in the buyer's mind. But this is your business, not mine. If you are, as you say, unwilling to risk a million on a potentially losing venture, then you have to play it conservatively.



Sure, there are a lot of MMO writers out there; if they were interested, they should have contacted us when we announced the magazine three months ago. The first issue is mostly assigned out to writers and in production.

Ummm, sure, but presumably you're ready to start planning that second issue now. That's why you need that sort of information on the web site. Not really sure where the "they should have contacted us" hostility is coming from. Oh, and for the record, I didn't hear about it months ago either, although some did. It seems content isn't an issue for you, though, so this is rather a moot point.



The first issue of Massive won't have anything close to 50% of the content devoted to World of WarCraft. It's not a news/reviews/previews/tips magazine. But its features will be relevant to WoW players, as well as those of other games.

While lots of opinion is great, readers want the facts, too. My advice, based on my own research when I was looked at previous MMO-centric magazines, is to at the very least include industry news and previews and patch notes (but save the reviews for CGM) Even if you're going for more of a "MMO gamer culture" magazine, this is still stuff people want. But that's just my opinion; I could be wrong. If Massive struggles, I hope you will try changing the content before deciding that there's not a large enough market for an MMO magazine.



It's a little different from other game magazines. I hope people dig it.

I hope so, too. If it makes you feel any better, I didn't even know Beckett's had come out. :)

Bruce

[Ryan A]

Not really sure where the "they should have contacted us" hostility is coming from. Oh, and for the record, I didn't hear about it months ago either, although some did. It seems content isn't an issue for you, though, so this is rather a moot point.

You really have a bad case of the crazies if you read any hostility whatsoever into steve's reply.

[SirBruce]

You really have a bad case of the crazies if you read any hostility whatsoever into steve's reply.

I just got up. Not enough caffeine yet, perhaps.

Bruce

[Talisker]

Will Massive Mag run ads from IGE? 'Cause I'll wager they'd pay really, really well for space in an MMO-only mag :)

[steve]

My concern would be that sales will be reduced unless it comes out often enough to stick in the buyer's mind.
The fact we already have a monthly magazine helps. At a minimum, it means "free ads."


Ummm, sure, but presumably you're ready to start planning that second issue now. That's why you need that sort of information on the web site. Not really sure where the "they should have contacted us" hostility is coming from.
There's no shortage of people interested in writing, but most people aren't that good. While the contact info will eventually make its way to the site, most pitches are like, "Dude, I love WoW, can I write some reviews?"


My advice, based on my own research when I was looked at previous MMO-centric magazines, is to at the very least include industry news and previews and patch notes (but save the reviews for CGM)
News and patch notes are questionable for a quarterly because of timeliness, or a lack thereof. We could print the new WoW patch notes, but by the time it comes out in September, they'd have a new patch available.


Even if you're going for more of a "MMO gamer culture" magazine, this is still stuff people want.
If we had more people, we'd do more of that stuff online and leave the features for print.

[steve]

Will Massive Mag run ads from IGE? 'Cause I'll wager they'd pay really, really well for space in an MMO-only mag :)
There will be no ads from IGE.

[Kadath]

This wins the award for 'worst idea ever for magazines that are completely obviated by the nimbleness of the world wide web'.

Shit, Sony could have all the inside information they wanted on all their games and even they couldnt come out with more than one issue of SOE worlds... And THAT had 6 month old info for the most part.

Sam

[Supersport]

Just read the Beckett MMO mag and I really wasn't impressed.

Couple of things that really bothered me....

There reviews were done with rose colored glasses. Example being the Auto Assault review. There is a population problem and the reviewer pointed out that it is easier to get quests done without a large group of individuals competing for the same camps.

DDO got a glowing review as well. Another example of rose colored glasses, "Shrines allow you to heal and regain spell points (as opposed to resting on your butt!). This makes DDO a faster-paced game because you aren't always wasting time resting."

To me, this is one of the most annoying features of DDO, the I can't rest anywhere aspect of it. Did the review spend time resting in a Inn that makes you sit there for 5 minutes, then have to run across the entire zone to get back into the instance?


50% of the mag was WOW related. Even though I primarily play WOW, I would like to see some more information on the other communities out there. DAOC, AO, WWIIO, EQ2, AC, were pretty much non-existant.

Hardware review was pretty much paper filler. They should drop it all together since other mags (Maximum PC) do it better.

Oh...and my last gripe....they had a history of D&D. However in their timeline which included the SSI Gold box blurbs, they left out Baldur's Gate series and Icewind Dale series. If it wasn't for these games, RPG's would be the way of flight sim games today. This was a HUGE oversight. The Timeline in the mag jumped from America Online's Forgotten Realms (this was good since it hardly ever gets mentioned) straight to Neverwinter Nights. Now I understand that they are focusing on ONLINE games, but then why point out SSI gold box Pool of Radiance?

I really didn't like it at all.

[JM]

EVE-Online's magazine, E-ON, is a good read. Lots of decent articles, short stories, "in-character" interviews and some fantastic adverts for ingame services. Pricey but I'm happy with my subscription.

(Ok, so I've become a complete EVE fanboy and my Guristas t-shirt is in the mail...)

[SirBruce]

I didn't even know EVE had a magazine until I saw it at E3 this year. Very slick, nicely printed.

Also, more companies should do artbooks. Dofus is making a ton of money of their art book.

Bruce