Battle for Middle Earth II for $5.99

[SlyFrog]

Here:

http://www.software-blowouts.com/loofribaform.html

If this is a faux pas here, I apologize. I'm not associated with these guys, I do not know whether they are reputable (though they look clean enough).

I'm not going to start cluttering the forum with, "Only $19.99!," posts. I'm only posting this because it seems to be a pretty amazing price for what many around here probably have as their RTS of the year so far.

[Marcus]

OK so who is gonna be the first one to order from them?

[Becoming]

I get a checkout error saying I didn't specify the recipients first name, even though all the fields are filled out... I tried IE and firefox with the same results.

[Mattc0m]

Just FYI it's $12 w/ shipping. Not bad, mind you. But I prefer to shop with PayPal when I'm purchasing stuff online.

[Robert Sharp]

I just placed my order. I'll tell you if I get ripped off, though it will be too late by then to act on this sale, most likely.

I did get a confirmation email...so far, everything seems legit. Thanks for the tip, Sly.

[Dave Long]

I just ordered as well. Will inform people what happens.

Got a confirmation e-mail upon ordering...so it seems to be working right.

[Robert Sharp]

I get a checkout error saying I didn't specify the recipients first name, even though all the fields are filled out... I tried IE and firefox with the same results.

That's odd, because there is no first name/last name field. There's just a name field.

[Becoming]

Just retried and it went through. I just couldn't resist getting this game for 12 bucks. Thanks for posting the link! Being a budget minded gamer is a rough gig sometimes and finds like this make things an easy sell to the wife hehe.

[Erik J.]

Also jumped in. Since I'm poor now, budget gaming is going to become my hobby. I haven't played an RTS in forever, so this seems like a good place to start.

Erik J.

[TomChick]

Dudes, this game is totally worth twice what you're paying!

You should support the developers by sticking ten dollars in an envelope and mailing it to "Hobbit RTS dev team, c/o Electronic Arts".

-Tom

[Becoming]

I can't wait to give it a go. If I like it I'd be up for a QT3 mp session for next saturday or something (even though you rts nuts on here would probably stomp my ass).

[Alan Au]

Quick update--the site is now indicating that it's sold out!

- Alan

[Becoming]

Damn that was fast. I got a confirmation e-mail so I'm glad I got in while the getting was good.

[Robert Sharp]

Well, it did say it was a blowout. These are probably clearance deals of some sort, and it indicated limited quantity. They probably reached that number pretty quickly.

[ron_debry]

Dudes, this game is totally worth twice what you're paying!

You should support the developers by sticking ten dollars in an envelope and mailing it to "Hobbit RTS dev team, c/o Electronic Arts".

-Tom

Like we can trust EA to send the ten bucks on to the dev team...

[mutt]

Screw BFME2. I can't wait to play this one: Gerbil Drop (http://www.software-blowouts.com/gerbildrop.html)

[Dave Long]

Hopefully we got in before they ran out. It's very possible we'll get those dreaded "Sorry... we goofed" e-mails that deny us the game.

[John Reynolds]

Also jumped in. Since I'm poor now, budget gaming is going to become my hobby. I haven't played an RTS in forever, so this seems like a good place to start.

Erik J.

I'm not a fan of the genre and I just finished up both BfME2 campaigns last weekend. Loved the game, and it's the first RTS I've finished since I think WarCraft 1 back in '95.

[JMR]

Screw BFME2. I can't wait to play this one: Gerbil Drop (http://www.software-blowouts.com/gerbildrop.html)


Ehh looks like they didn't consult Richard Gere, think I'll pass.

[Robert Sharp]

I got a strange email today about some guy being out of the office until Monday. No idea what this means for my order, but I didn't email anyone from the company.

[Slainte Mhath]

Those guys have been around awhile and they sell on Ebay sometimes as well. I bought a few copies of Wizardry Archives from them a couple years back for $9.99 a pop (won't tell you what I resold them for on Ebay...). They seem pretty legit, though some of the shovelware they sell is obviously pulled from bundled stuff as it comes only in a sleeve with no instructions or in a "brown box" with the CD and manual but no printed retail box.

The BFME2 they list is retail box though, so it looks like you all got a good deal. Congrats!

[Dave Long]

I got a strange email today about some guy being out of the office until Monday. No idea what this means for my order, but I didn't email anyone from the company.

Yeah, I got the same thing. I'm a little concerned about that. Makes me wonder if it was supposed to be the "Sorry, we oversold it" e-mail and they just screwed up.

[jpinard]

I got a strange email today about some guy being out of the office until Monday. No idea what this means for my order, but I didn't email anyone from the company.

I ordered Zoo Tycoon 2 for my niece (can't beat $1.99), and I got the same message. That also has me very concerned.

[Dave Long]

Could be someone screwed up because of the volume of orders for BFME2.

I guess we'll know soon enough.

[jpinard]

Could be someone screwed up because of the volume of orders for BFME2.

I guess we'll know soon enough.

I didn't order BFMEII - it's a company issue which is why I'm worried about the legitamacy.

[Jab2565]

Well I just had a great match with superhiro and orph, so I'm ready when you guys get your copies, hopefully.

[Becoming]

I didn't order BFMEII - it's a company issue which is why I'm worried about the legitamacy.

If that's their name on Ebay they have a fairly good feedback rating there. I'm not really an Ebay shopper so I really don't know if those ratings are worth a damn or are easily stacked by the store in their own favor though.

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=software-blowouts&frm=1742

Funny enough though if you peek down to the 2 feedbacks by restaurantexpert one is in english and one in "spanish" (or whatever that's supposed to be). Does anyone else find that not only fishy, but hilarious?

[Robert Sharp]

Well I just had a great match with superhiro and orph, so I'm ready when you guys get your copies, hopefully.

I'm not a great at RTSs, but I'll play online if you want. I learn a lot from getting beaten down :).

[Jab2565]

One of the problems with their online feature, is that it makes for a pain in the ass to find someone, do you have a user name yet for it?

[SuperHiro]

Well I just had a great match with superhiro and orph, so I'm ready when you guys get your copies, hopefully.

Those attack trolls just chewed me up. And the fact that you ninja'ed all those heroes and I didn't even notice. I DID notice that I turned away and suddenly my entire army was gone. In retrospect, sending those wargs into the scrum hoping your pikes were occupied was a really bad idea. Three man FFA's are always dicey like that. Some days you're the man enjoying the Oreo and somedays you're the creamy filling. What's their counter? Pikes?

Good game though... I finally got the hang of getting econ set up. But seriously, Fortresses need a boost, they go down way too easily.

[Jab2565]

All buildings need a boost at this point, and I know for a fact that attack trolls go down easily from pikemen, if you can get 2 or 3 units to attack them while they're moving you can kill them before they reach your fortress. Of course upgrading pikes help as well.

[Robert Sharp]

One of the problems with their online feature, is that it makes for a pain in the ass to find someone, do you have a user name yet for it?

Oops, I didn't clarify that I don't have it yet. I just ordered it, as per this thread. Who knows when it will arrive...and I have to learn the game first, so it could be a couple of weeks.

[Dave Long]

SHIPPED!

http://www.pogoslam.com/headbanging3.gif

[Becoming]

SHIPPED!

http://www.pogoslam.com/headbanging3.gif

Ditto! Weeeeeeee!

[Robert Sharp]

Yep, me too. I'm pretty happy about it! Of course, I used the cheapest shipping (hey, it was a deal..why negate it with shipping costs?), so it could be a few weeks before it arrives.

[Dave Long]

USPS is usually pretty fast. Should have it by Friday at the latest.

[Becoming]

Mine just came in!

[Robert Sharp]

Mine too...everything looks good.

[SuperHiro]

Well then... I guess a BFME2 mp fest is imminent?

[Becoming]

Sure! Well...as soon as I figure out what in the hell I'm doing anyway.

[DanielElliot]

I'll play BFME2, though its my least favorite RTS-that-I-actually-play

[Jab2565]

Can't wait, time to send out the nazgul army again. Although today I got killed by a rusher who sent an army of axe throwers, killed my nazgul in 2 seconds.

[Dave Long]

Unfortunately, mine didn't arrive today. Probably tomorrow. I'm on the east coast.

[Jab2565]

I'm set now to play if anyone wants to.

[Erik J.]

Back from the beach and my copy was waiting for me when I got back. Everything looks good. 5 friggin discs, though. Damn.

Erik J.

[Becoming]

Back from the beach and my copy was waiting for me when I got back. Everything looks good. 5 friggin discs, though. Damn.

Erik J.

Six discs SUCKS. When are companies going to quit putting large games on cds and coddling people unwilling to drop 30 bucks on a dvd drive? I've had my dvd reader and writer for about three YEARS.

[Dave Long]

I finally got mine on Tuesday. Total screw up by the Post Office. Software Blowouts were very cool about the whole thing though.

Definitely inteersted in playing sometime.

[Marcus]

FYI Frys has the game for 12 bucks both the DVD version and the CD version.

[Dirt]

FYI Frys has the game for 12 bucks both the DVD version and the CD version.
Jebus. All these sales makes me poorer, not richer. I just have to grab as many as I can. Lord knows when I'll have the time to play them all. I'm still waiting for Circuit City's July 4th sale.

[RichVR]

Still too expensive?

http://www.software-blowouts.com/abomination.html

[Dirt]

FYI Frys has the game for 12 bucks both the DVD version and the CD version.
You're lucky. I went to the Fry's in Fountain Valley and it's $49.99.

[Marcus]

You're lucky. I went to the Fry's in Fountain Valley and it's $49.99.

Well did you check the price or just check the sticker because all the copies on the shelf still said 49.99 but they rang up at 12 bucks.

[Dirt]

Well did you check the price or just check the sticker because all the copies on the shelf still said 49.99 but they rang up at 12 bucks.
Yeah. I had a price check done on it. :( Maybe I'll try again tomorrow; maybe there'll be a sale.

[ducker]

target has them for $39.95 until 7/10 I believe.

[eliandi]

This thread made me finally fire up the demo for BfME2. The game looks awesome...everything just oozes Middle Earth.

In game, however, I find it a clickfest. Units moving so fast, construction done in a flash, and the FOV so small as to be constantly zooming about to find the unit you need. I know the RTS folks want to ask me what did I expect, but all this hyper-speed-ADD is in opposition to the epic beat of the soundtrack and expic scope of the material.

So I reloaded Medieval Total War and found the pace of the battles to be more what I was looking for. If only TW did Middle Earth.....

I will give BfME2 another chance in the future as I do love the subject. Maybe for $5.99

[Alistair]

Well, I picked this up on sale... I guess I should know that titles described as genre-wonk unit-wrangles are not for me.

I know the SP campaign is not the strong point of this, but really, :(

I think the thing that brings it down is the camera, to an extent coupled with the interface. So I've got something I need some guys with swords to do. I need to find some guys with swords. I basically have to scroll my postage stamp view of the world around until I find where I left them? That's just painful. I can't you know, tilt the camera? Or press G for Guys with Swords? Or see more than 3 square feet? I'd somehow formed the mental impression that this was a good-looking game, but as all I can ever see is the corner of some docks (I exaggerate) how can I possibly know? I feel I've bought tickets for the cheap seats, and they guys sitting higher up are having the intended experience, while I'm stuck leaning round pillars for a view...

[Dave Long]

Take note of where you put your guys with swords when you build them. Click in the mini-map instead of scrolling around like a moron.

I guess I'm in a bad mood, but every time I see a post like this about RTS games, my first thought is "Do you want to play a game or just watch things move around onscreen?"

If you're playing the campaign, go through the tutorial. If that's too clicky for you, then basically RTS just isn't for you.

[Sebmolo]

Nice snark, Snarky McSnarkster! LEARN2PLAY NOOB, GO BACK TO STRACRAFT or QQ LOL would also have been acceptable. But bonus points for calling him a moron!

[Dave Long]

See, I knew that would be someone's reply, but when you read about people having absolutely no clue how to even monitor their unit's location, then I think it's time to tell them to find another type of game to play.

I've written countless posts over the years to help people like this, very kind, helpful ones, and I think maybe one of them actually decided to continue playing RTS games instead of just bitching every time another one came along.

So basically, I think it's better to tell people to bag it instead.

I mean, this is snarky IMO...

I think the thing that brings it down is the camera, to an extent coupled with the interface. So I've got something I need some guys with swords to do. I need to find some guys with swords. I basically have to scroll my postage stamp view of the world around until I find where I left them? That's just painful. I can't you know, tilt the camera? Or press G for Guys with Swords? Or see more than 3 square feet? I'd somehow formed the mental impression that this was a good-looking game, but as all I can ever see is the corner of some docks (I exaggerate) how can I possibly know? I feel I've bought tickets for the cheap seats, and they guys sitting higher up are having the intended experience, while I'm stuck leaning round pillars for a view...

...and basically tells me the person just wants to pound on their favorite whipping boy genre again and not bother to figure out how to play the game.

[Sebmolo]

Doesn't come across that way to me. He wants to play the game, and the interface is getting in the way. If there's a simple solution I'm sure he'd like to hear it. Your suggestion that he could write down his units' locations as he produces/moves them is kind, but impractical.

And saying it's an attack on that 'whipping boy' of genres, the RTS, is just odd.

[Graeme Dice]

Take note of where you put your guys with swords when you build them. Click in the mini-map instead of scrolling around like a moron.

I think you dismiss a very valid point too quickly. RTS games tend to have fairly poor interfaces. You tend to spend more time repeatedly selecting new units and pressing ctrl-1 than you do actually controlling where your units go.

I guess I'm in a bad mood, but every time I see a post like this about RTS games, my first thought is "Do you want to play a game or just watch things move around onscreen?"

I do want my units to be smart enough that I can just watch them move around onscreen. Taking Dawn of War as an example, why aren't my units smart enough to use their grenades automatically? They recharge quickly enough, and there's little interesting about in tabbing between 10 different marine squads to throw grenades at the same target 10 times.

[Dave Long]

Why is that odd? It's a genre that takes constant punishment from people that "don't get it". Same as MMORPGs. This strikes me as exactly that kind of post.

I didn't tell him to write anything down. If you aren't paying close enough attention to know where your units are, and more importantly aren't able to click on the mini-map where you see the dots the color of your troops, then really, no one can help you.

[Dave Long]

I think you dismiss a very valid point too quickly. RTS games tend to have fairly poor interfaces. You tend to spend more time repeatedly selecting new units and pressing ctrl-1 than you do actually controlling where your units go.

Bull. Most RTS games today have very good interfaces. They make tasks easy. It's a far cry from Command & Conquer. Hotkeys allow you to hit a single key to select multiple units after a single lasso and Ctrl-# press. How do you propose to make it even easier without removing the part of the game where you actually control things onscreen?

I do want my units to be smart enough that I can just watch them move around onscreen. Taking Dawn of War as an example, why aren't my units smart enough to use their grenades automatically? They recharge quickly enough, and there's little interesting about in tabbing between 10 different marine squads to throw grenades at the same target 10 times.

What's the point of a game where you just watch? Games are about interaction. Don't you make games? I thought you said that at some point but maybe I'm wrong. Anyway, if you do make them, I don't want to play the games you make. They'll all be like Dungeon Siege.

The reason they don't throw grenades automatically is because those guys don't know if you want them thrown or not and the moment they throw them and you didn't want them to, you're going to reverse that argument and say "Why don't those fuckers read my mind and throw grenades at exaclty the moment I want them to?!"

These are games, not movies. They require interaction.

[Sebmolo]

Of course they do. The OP was just saying that the interaction wasn't entertaining.

[Graeme Dice]

Bull. Most RTS games today have very good interfaces. They make tasks easy. It's a far cry from Command & Conquer. Hotkeys allow you to hit a single key to select multiple units after a single lasso and Ctrl-# press. How do you propose to make it even easier without removing the part of the game where you actually control things onscreen?

You just repeated what I said was a problem as though it was a benefit of current interfaces. Clicking back to your base, dragging a box around only the unit you want to select, then pressing ctrl-# every five seconds isn't particularly appealing, nor does it have anything to do with developing a strategy. It took till 2006 and Rise of Legends to have a mainstream games that allowed production to automatically join a control group. It's still not perfect since you have to right click on an already existing group for it to work, but at least it exists. Then there's the genre convention that if you queue five units you have to pay for all five right away. That's something that should have died with Dune 2, not been carried until the present. It's not a good thing to be forced to constantly click on a microscopically tiny minimap just so that I can babysit unit production. There's another ridiculous genre convention that attack move requires both a keypress and a mouseclick, while the rarely used normal movement order only requires a single mouseclick.

What's the point of a game where you just watch? Games are about interaction. Don't you make games? I thought you said that at some point but maybe I'm wrong. Anyway, if you do make them, I don't want to play the games you make. They'll all be like Dungeon Siege.

I've never said that I make games.

As for the question about watching battles, I'm going to come right out and state that RTS battles should be more like Dominions, and less like Warcraft III. Warcraft III is a good example, because it has countless cases where player actions have obvious correct choices. I can't think of any situation where you are better off having your ranged units spread their firepower, so your units should automatically focus fire unless you specifically tell them not to. The same goes for your melee attackers. If multiple friendly units are next to a single enemy unit, then they should automatically choose to attack the same unit unless specifically ordered to do otherwise. Are you going to argue that it would be better if spells like heal or bloodlust could not be autocast just so that people would have to play the game rather than watching it?

If a decision is simple enough, or obvious enough that there is always a correct answer, then I want to be able to tell the program to make that decision for me as it's no longer a strategic decision. Dungeon Siege wouldn't have magically become a good game just by taking away the automation. It would have become tedious.

The reason they don't throw grenades automatically is because those guys don't know if you want them thrown or not and the moment they throw them and you didn't want them to, you're going to reverse that argument and say "Why don't those fuckers read my mind and throw grenades at exaclty the moment I want them to?!"

Why would I say that? The grenades do virtually no damage, and have very short cooldowns so they are not an ability that you care about saving to the proper moment. The AI is already perfectly capable of using them on its own troops after all. Even though they have minimal benefits, they still require two keystrokes and a carefully aimed mouse click just to get any benefit out of them. And yet, I still always want them to be thrown for their minor benefit, which leads directly to more micromanagement. Even if the grenades were powerful and rare, then I would still want to have the option to automate their use.

[Becoming]

I think an awful lot of people won't be as accepting/forgiving of the more standard zoom levels in RTS games once Supreme Commander is released. The entire time I played BFME2 I just wished I could pull the camera out farther (including the time pfreak kicked my drunk ass at it).

I can't complain too greatly about the game though since I only paid like ten bucks for it. :)

[Robert Sharp]

Yep. I'm with Becoming here. I just want to be able to scroll back and forth as much as I choose. Honestly, that's the best thing I've seen about SC so far. Yeah, the battles are cute, but that scroll impressed the hell out of me. I've been wanting that since the original Warcraft.

[Jab2565]

Yeah the camera in Bfme2 is abit too zoomed in for me. Whenever they decide to release the next patch, I'll be up for some games.

[Sebmolo]

Ground Control was pretty good for that. Hm. You can download that for free nowadays, can'tcha?

Edit: Yes. (http://internetgames.about.com/b/a/094985.htm)

[Troy S Goodfellow]

Yep. I'm with Becoming here. I just want to be able to scroll back and forth as much as I choose.

I completely understand that sentiment, but I can also appreciate the decision not to do it.

I was listening to one developer talk about building an RTS and how one version let you give orders from a super zoomed out position. You could see your entire range of sight, assign build orders, command your armies, etc. Very cool.

But then there was little reason to ever zoom in. Why would you ever cut off your intelligence capabilities and play the game from a place where you could actually see the art? Victory is about being able to give as many orders in as many places as you can. Zooming in worked against victory.

The balance is tricky, especially since so many games will let you zoom in to the grass level (totally useless *except* to appreciate the art) but not let you zoom out that one extra level you always think you need. (As much as I love BfME2, I always wanted to see just a little bit more.)

Troy

[Enidigm]

It's not so much that zooming is bad but that zooming negates micromanagement. It becomes about banding a group, throwing them at the enemy, and repeating till done.

Now this is the part where you say "i don't want a game with micromanagement!".

Make the game where micro is necessary AND you have a huge zoom, and you just make it more difficult for the keyboard-monkey challenged to win. I mean, its a subtle balance that depends alot of the game itself, so there is no set solution here.

[caesarbear]

It took till 2006 and Rise of Legends to have a mainstream games that allowed production to automatically join a control group.
Maybe, but non-"mainstream" RTS games have had that for years. In fact all of your complaints have been addressed years ago. The target audience for a game like BFME2 is as you say mainstream, so for some reason EA decides that means it can't have a powerful interface. Still, good RTS games have had excellent and flexible interfaces for years.

[TurinTuramba]

But then there was little reason to ever zoom in. Why would you ever cut off your intelligence capabilities and play the game from a place where you could actually see the art? Victory is about being able to give as many orders in as many places as you can. Zooming in worked against victory.

Troy

That´s the really good reason to have a closed zoom. You always have an advantage if you zoom out farther and to stay competitive you´d basically have to play it like a game of chess with abstract symbols.

Now it´s certainly possible that the zoom limit is set a bit too low, but you can easily mod it with worldbuilder. I have played a few maps with unlimited zoom levels and the feeling of the epic battles gets kinda lost if your balrog is just another little spot on the map.

[Shiroko]

Then there's the genre convention that if you queue five units you have to pay for all five right away. That's something that should have died with Dune 2,

Ummm.... Dune 2 in its heirs are actually the games were you pay only during the building process. :)

[ron_debry]

But then there was little reason to ever zoom in. Why would you ever cut off your intelligence capabilities and play the game from a place where you could actually see the art?
Troy

That is exactly why zoom limits feel arbitrary to many players. Developers expend so much effort on the art that a suitably zoomed view can't run on most systems.


It's not so much that zooming is bad but that zooming negates micromanagement. It becomes about banding a group, throwing them at the enemy, and repeating till done.

Only if the game design allows a randomly collected group to be as effective as one carefully chosen for the situation. If things such as terrain and flanking matter, then the player who picks the time and place for the battle and picks his force to take best advantage and places the components of his force in the right spots will win every time over the "lasso a random group and throw" guy.


Unfortunately, a game with lots of eye candy will probably outsell a game with lots of strategy 10:1.

[Chris Nahr]

Only if the game design allows a randomly collected group to be as effective as one carefully chosen for the situation. If things such as terrain and flanking matter, then the player who picks the time and place for the battle and picks his force to take best advantage and places the components of his force in the right spots will win every time over the "lasso a random group and throw" guy.

Bingo. If your game has one zoom level at which it looks best, and a totally different zoom level at which it plays best, you have a fundamental contradiction in your game design. Resolve that contradiction, and complaints about zoom levels will go away...

[metta]

Why is that odd? It's a genre that takes constant punishment from people that "don't get it".

Maybe folks are reacting to the arrogance that says "If you don't like this, then you just don't get it."

It's possible for people to 'get it' and still not like it :)

[Ben Sones]

How do you propose to make it even easier without removing the part of the game where you actually control things onscreen?

By automatically controlling units in groups, instead of individually. When you think about it, having to manage individual units is pretty dumb, thematically. There are a number of games that already do this, and not just Total War-style games, either. After playing games like Dawn of War, where you just automatically recruit and command units in squads, it's hard for me to go back to games where I have to fiddle with each individual guy in my army.

What's the point of a game where you just watch? ...

The reason they don't throw grenades automatically is because those guys don't know if you want them thrown or not and the moment they throw them and you didn't want them to, you're going to reverse that argument and say "Why don't those fuckers read my mind and throw grenades at exaclty the moment I want them to?!"

The real genius of Kohan was that it demonstrated how empty this argument is. The guys in your army knew how to do their jobs in that game without any micromanagement on your part, and it didn't ruin the experience. I'm not saying that every game has to be Kohan; certainly there are games where triggering unit powers at the right time is a big part of the game strategy. But there are also a lot of games where triggering unit powers is more of a chore than tactical choice. If nothing else, I think Kohan demonstrates that RTS games in general could stand to automate a whole lot more than they do.

[Enidigm]

The thing about Kohan was that not having direct control wasn't that bad because no one had direct control. You never missed not having to focus fire because your opponent couldn't focus fire either. If you made controlling individual units an "optional" ability, no one would play without using this feature because they would have a significant advantage.

[Mark Asher]

Kohan went a long way towards making an RTS game feel less frantic. It didn't get all the way there, but it got closer than any other RTS game I've played.

[Robert Sharp]

I don't understand the art comments, at least not from the gamer's perspective. So what if I don't zoom in and look at the art? I want to be able to play the game and have fun. There may still be reasons to zoom in a bit (directed abilities, for example...easier unit selection, etc.). But to say I should look at the art all the time seems like forcing me to enjoy what the developers have done. I don't find that a compelling reason.

BTW, I am the type who would zoom in a lot anyway because I like seeing the units fight. That's part of the fun for me. I just want to be able to zoom out to see what my units can see.

[Troy S Goodfellow]

BTW, I am the type who would zoom in a lot anyway because I like seeing the units fight. That's part of the fun for me. I just want to be able to zoom out to see what my units can see.

That's what I mean about the art. The units themselves either fighting it out or marching along. This is my favorite part, too, until they find themselves in a swirling mass of crap.

There is also the AI to consider in this balance. RTS AI isn't that great to begin with in most cases. If you give the player an almost total field of vision and control, I would guess it becomes even more incompetent. MP games would only be played at the widest zoom.

Troy

[TurinTuramba]

I don't understand the art comments, at least not from the gamer's perspective. So what if I don't zoom in and look at the art? I want to be able to play the game and have fun. There may still be reasons to zoom in a bit (directed abilities, for example...easier unit selection, etc.). But to say I should look at the art all the time seems like forcing me to enjoy what the developers have done. I don't find that a compelling reason.

BTW, I am the type who would zoom in a lot anyway because I like seeing the units fight. That's part of the fun for me. I just want to be able to zoom out to see what my units can see.

Here is my take on that.
I like watching the art and feeling like I´m in the thick of battle.
I also like to win the game.
In order to win I should gather as many advantages as possible, which means I should play at a very high zoom level to see the whole battlefield at once.
So if you allow high zoom levels, you are forcing me to play at a zoom level where I can´t appreciate the art anymore to stay competitive.
That makes the game less enjoyable for me.

A somewhat crappy analogy:
Say you are playing a game of chess, where it isn´t allowed to use a computer or books to help.
Now someone comes along and says: hey you are allowed to use computers/books for the opening moves, because learning opening moves is a chore.
So everyone would use computers/books for the opening moves, which would
result in a less interesting game, because every opening would be played flawlessly.

[Enidigm]

Kohan went a long way towards making an RTS game feel less frantic. It didn't get all the way there, but it got closer than any other RTS game I've played.


... but you need to replace that "frantic" feeling with something else, something more to keep the player's mind and attention going. Whether it's more meaningful terrain, economics, whatever.

I know that after playing a skirmish game vs. the AI in Kohan 2 i literally felt like my brain had gone to sleep; i get that "cotten-ball headache" like i've been staring at TV for too long. Kohan 2 is just so numbingly dull unless you play it at the fastest speed settings, which nullifies the whole "Deep Strategy" thing.

[Naked]

Originally Posted by TomChick

Dudes, this game is totally worth twice what you're paying!

You should support the developers by sticking ten dollars in an envelope and mailing it to "Hobbit RTS dev team, c/o Electronic Arts".

-Tom

Originally Posted by ron_debry

Like we can trust EA to send the ten bucks on to the dev team..

Just send your hard earned dollars my way. I'll make sure everyone on the team gets a cut, honest....

[Jab2565]

I didn't feel like bringing back my post. But Ea has released a pretty big change list for the next patch. One thing that's going to alter the game is that walls are now cheaper to make and immune to everything but siege damage.

http://forums.ea.com/mboards/thread.jspa?sls=2&tstart=0&threadID=101413&start=0

Now if they can get this out before the end of augest. I'll be happy.

[rezaf]

*rise*

Couldn't locate the actual BfME2 release thread, so this one will have to do.

I picked this one up ages ago, but somehow never got around to actually play it. Well, I was having some time recently, and semi-randomly picked this from my backlog.
First I couldn't get it to work at all - turned out EA proved unable to patch the game to run under Vista. Way to go, EA.
Anyway, as soon as I did the manual changes, it ran, but ... I couldn't switch to a widescreen resolution.
Manually editing the ini made that work, but then I ran into the issue mentioned in this thread: zooming is almost non-existant.
The default zoom is unbearably close, and zooming out works only to an EXTREMELY limited degree. Like being able to zoom out from 100% to 97%, no more.
I found one "patch" which supposedly changed the maps themselves to allow for a widescreen, more zoomed out view, but I couldn't even notice that anything changed and zooming out was still basically impossible.
Was there ever a proper mod, hack or anything that actually made it possible to play at a reasonably zoomed out view?

I think it's quite embarrassing for EA that a game barely three years old does not work in Vista with it's newest patch and doesn't support widescreen resolutions.

Whatever, anyone aware of a fanmade solution to the zoom problem?
Thanks in advance.
_____
rezaf