It's a Pretty Decent Life [Archive] - Quarter To Three Forums

Tom Chick

07-16-2002, 08:21 PM

I've never seen The Godfather, The Wizard of Oz, or It's a Wonderful Life. I just fixed a third of that problem.

Okay, Jimmy Stewart really is great. I'd seen Rear Window and Vertigo, but I presume he was already an established persona by then. In It's a Wonderful Life, there's something much more raw about him. He's younger and earnest and really engaging. What a beautiful expressive face! He just radiates kindness.

However, the developing story very nearly lost me a few times as it plodded along. What's all this tedious stuff about bank loans and someone opening a plastics factory and mean old Mr. Potter and builiding subdivisions? And then suddenly George Bailey is in a bad mood and he's yelling at his kids (ah, the innocence of domestic upheavel in 1946...) and then he's going to throw himself into an icy river.

To my mind, the movie didn't really start until this point, when it's already about 80% finished. This is the best part of the movie, watching Jimmy Stewart reacting to his life being taken away, the slow realization and growing panic. I really liked the angel stuff. BTW, I have to say Clarence the angel is a dead ringer for an older Andrew Bub; I've met Bub and when he's about 50, he'll look just like Clarence.

And I was a sucker for the ending, which is sort of like Timon of Athens/High Noon in reverse. Instead of a man in need being abandoned by his friends, it was all about how your friends will come through for you when you're in trouble. You Get By with a Little Help from Your Friends, says Frank Capra, pollyanna extraordinaire. It must have been nice to be back in 1946 when the United States saved the world and everyone loved everyone and white men benevolently ruled the planet, uncontested and confident. How quaint and heartwarming and no wonder this movie is shown on TV at Christmas all the time. Shucks, the Way It Used To Be sure was swell!

Overall, I'd say Wonderful Life had a decent payoff, but there was too much filler to get there. Maybe that's just the way old movies are.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing Jimmy Stewart in Man Who Shot Liberty Valence. And, of course, The Godfather and Wizard of Oz.

-Tom

Troy S Goodfellow

07-16-2002, 08:31 PM

The filler as you call it (the bank loans, the plastics factory, Bailey Park, etc.) is all there to set up the "road not travelled" thing - demonstrating the choices that George made and the consequences as we see them. Every time he has a chance to get away (his honeymoon, e.g.), he is interrupted by a problem needing immediate attention (the bank run). The plastics thing is an opportunity missed.

Because they are shown to us, we see the series of setbacks and disappointments in George's life making his final despair at the loss of the money the straw on the camel. His college friend is a plastics millionaire, his brother a war hero and Potter evil but rich. His despair is envy and grief at not ever getting *his* chance.

It's A Wonderful Life is one of my favorite movies, and you are right that the raw anger Stewart shows in the film is amazing.

Aszurom

07-16-2002, 08:32 PM

Speaking of classics, I have yet to see Citizen Kane.

Rooooosebud...

Anyway, I have no concept as to the plot of the whole thing, but it's supposed to be a classic on-par with IAWL. Anybody wanna throw me a cluepon?

And yes, every time a trumpet blows, a Bub gets his wings.

Troy S Goodfellow

07-16-2002, 08:42 PM

Kane is great. Very dialogue heavy, not much action. More often praised for its technical achievements than its plot, it's a nice story about the search for the true story about a reclusive newspaper baron. I love it, but people I know and respect find it dreadfully dull.

Before I forget, Tom, Stewart was very well established in Hollywood by the time that IAWL was made in 1946. He had been in about 30 pictures before that, including two bona fide classics (Mr. Smith Goes to Washington and Philadelphia Story). He was 38 when he did IAWL. Give Capra credit for thinking he had the chops to pull this part off, but he was no fresh face.

DavidCPA

07-16-2002, 10:13 PM

TSG...Great description on the setup for Stewart's eventual desperate condition. Maybe I have seen the movie too many times because they appear very obvious plot points.

The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance is good, but not as good as IAWL. John Wayne is his typical tough but good guy (and I don't mean that in a bad way) and Lee Marvin is a good villian.

I would actually be interested in seeing a film with Jimmy Stewart as a bad guy. Anyone know of a film where played something different than his usual type role?

-DavidCPA

Tom Chick

07-16-2002, 10:24 PM

He was 38 when he did IAWL.

Whoa! I knew they were pushing it when he was playing a high school student, but I had no idea. I didn't know he was an icon by then, either. My only frame of reference was the two Hitchcock films I'd seen.

Good points about the set up, but I could see the pattern by the second or third time it happened: yeah, yeah, he's such a steadfast fella that he's letting his Dreams pass him by. I freely admit I'm a child of modern movies, so the luxury of this sort of character development might be lost on me. :)

I had a girlfriend who said she'd watch It's a Wonderful Life whenever she was depressed and it would make her feel better. But while I was watching it, I couldn't imagine sitting through the whole thing again. Certainly I could watch the part with Clarence/Bub the angel until the end a few times, but the first two thirds just seemed so workaday to me. Although Stewart sure as hell is watchable.

Also, I must say it would be cool to work someplace where there's a raven just hopping around the office.

-Tom

Anonymous

07-16-2002, 11:15 PM

Also, I must say it would be cool to work someplace where there's a raven just hopping around the office.

It's not all its cracked up to be. What with the tapping, TAPPING, TAPPING at the fucking chamber door, and I'm constantly cleaning raven guano off my bust of Pallas Athena. I'm not even going to mention the squawking. Ravens in the workplace? Nevermore. Get a nice, peaceful aquarium instead, you'll thank me.

Murph

07-17-2002, 12:36 AM

Heh. Okay ten experience points to that guest. That was pretty clever. I thought.

Or else I'm just tired. Either way, I laughed.

mtkafka

07-17-2002, 02:50 AM

Tom , you still haven't seen The Godfather? Or Wizard of Oz? And ONLY TWO Hitchcock movies? You Weirdo!

Actually you might like Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.. its a subversive commie movie with Charlie as the prole who does good! Sorta like Baum being a socialist with his Oz books!

Anyway, if you think about it, Its a Wonderful Life is more mature in its view of the world then alot of current movies. There's the rich and the people fucked by the rich (not that I agree with this view!), and Mr Potter gets away with it. In Mr Smith Goes to Washington its greedy politicians. I think if you watch Capra's Lost Horizon, you'll see his views about the world better. Its a shitty place, but you still need friends and whatnut. Thats if you believe in the auteur theory of directors being the center of movies.

An old director I think you'd like Tom, if you haven't seen his stuff, is Howard Hawks. Hes a GREAT american director. Did everything from Scarface, to The Big Sleep, to His Girl Friday, to Sergeant York to Barabary Coast to Bringing up Baby. Alot of his movies have GREAT dialogue especially His Girl Friday. The Big Sleep is awesome too! Faulkner wrote the script of a Chandler book! How good is that!

etc

Bub, Andrew

07-17-2002, 04:33 AM

[quote] Certainly I could watch the part with Clarence/Bub the angel until the end a few times, but the first two thirds just seemed so workaday to me. Although Stewart sure as hell is watchable.

I haven't seen IAWL yet (but I have seen the Godfather, Part 2 even, and the Wizard of Oz). Is the angel really named Bub? I enjoy movies with characters named Bub. Like "Day of the Dead" f'rinstance. If so, people will wonder why I have George Romero and Frank Capra side-by-side on my movie shelf and I'll cryptically tell them "it's for personal reasons".

Matthew Gallant

07-17-2002, 07:03 AM

It could have been 20 points if he signed off with:

E.A. Poe - It's in the floorboard.

Anonymous

07-17-2002, 07:30 AM

Capra movies always have a dark side to them Meet John Doe for instance with Gary Cooper and Barbara Stanwyck. If you enjoy old black and white films I always suggest Fritz Lang's M with Peter Lorre.

And hey Wizard of Oz is one of my favorite movies.

Jason Levine

07-17-2002, 09:36 AM

DavidCPA

07-17-2002, 09:44 AM

For those interested in seeing the dark side of Jimmy Stewart, two films:

1) Winchester 73 (Stewart as very credible tough guy) (And, for Tom, I consider this movie superior to the Man Who Shot Liberty Valence, although the ironic ending of Liberty Valence is great).

2) Anatomy of a Murder (Stewart as perhaps the most credible trial lawyer I've seen in a fictional movie. (And Lee Remick is scorching hot.))

I have seen Anatomy of a Murder and it is very good. George C. Scott stars as the lead prosecutor in this film. Stewart does some dirty work, but I wouldn't call it a dark side.

Jason Levine

07-17-2002, 09:52 AM

I have seen Anatomy of a Murder and it is very good. George C. Scott stars as the lead prosecutor in this film. Stewart does some dirty work, but I wouldn't call it a dark side.

Yeah, I shouldn't have given the impression that he's a bad guy in the film, but he does skirt the line of legal ethics in convincing fashion, which to me makes the character a lot more interesting than the goody-two-shoes of the Capra films.

hido

07-17-2002, 10:09 AM

How can someone have never seen The Godfather?!? I thought it was required.

Mark Asher

07-17-2002, 10:24 AM

For those interested in seeing the dark side of Jimmy Stewart, two films:

1) Winchester 73 (Stewart as very credible tough guy) (And, for Tom, I consider this movie superior to the Man Who Shot Liberty Valence, although the ironic ending of Liberty Valence is great).

2) Anatomy of a Murder (Stewart as perhaps the most credible trial lawyer I've seen in a fictional movie. (And Lee Remick is scorching hot.))

He's an actual bad guy in one of the Thin Man movies. Those are must sees in my book. William Powell and Myrna Loy are one of the great film couples. Stewart might be in the second one.

A guilty pleasure Jimmy Stewart film of mine -- The Flight of the Phoenix. He's a good guy, but he loses his temper a few times.

Troy S Goodfellow

07-17-2002, 11:27 AM

I have to put a plug in for Philadelphia Story. Stewart plays a cynical tabloid reporter opposite Cary Grant and Kate Hepburn in a wonderfully romantic story. The Sinatra/Crosby/Kelly remake ("High Society") is considerably more lively, but the original has stronger acting all the way through.

I just caught Stewart this weekend on a PBS showing of "How the West Was Won". He played Mountain Man Linus Rawlings. A cast of thousands, most of them stars, but the movie was hilariously awful. The highlight was John Wayne as Gen. Sherman trying to convince Harry Morgan as Gen. Grant not to resign. Debbie Reynolds, Gregory Peck, Karl Malden...all wasted talents in this sprawling disaster that somwhow managed to win three Oscars with five other nominations. They don't make epics like they used to. Thank God.

Anonymous

07-17-2002, 01:33 PM

Definitely catch the recent release of 'Kane' on DVD-it probably looks better than it did on the original release.One of the best looking B&W movies ever shot.It looks hyper-modern,even when compared to today's movies.

IAWL is a good movie,though highly overexposed the last decade or so.It's not the kind of movie I can watch over and over,which is not true of other Stewart movies,such as 'Rear Window' and 'Vertigo'.

Mike

Mark Asher

07-17-2002, 02:35 PM

Yes, Philadelphia Story is great. Don't miss that one. High Society -- can't stand that remake.

Ok, I checked IMDB. Other good Stewart movies you should check out include Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, Destry Rides Again, and Harvey.

Toddy

07-17-2002, 09:43 PM

Anonymous

07-17-2002, 10:28 PM

The Citizen Kane DVD is fantastic. What a gorgeous film. Though I'm not sure that the plot was as well developed as it should have been. The movie seemed to lurch at times, jumping forward years and giving us plot developments that were rushed. The end of Kane's second marriage really seemed to come out of nowhere, for example.

Right,but I think that's the intent-the story is told through flashbacks from various people,after all,so one would expect it to be disjointed and spotty.I have always loved the energy in many of the scenes with Kane as a young man.The film as a whole(rather than any one scene,or the 'surprise' ending)has a strange effect on me,as if it were telling me something very deep and mysterious,when it's really saying nothing at all.

I like the story,but the cinematography is astounding.I suppose one could say that the cinematography is like another major character in the film,looking over everyone,if I may steal a phrase from someone regarding the music in 'Rushmore'.

Mike

Dean

07-18-2002, 01:48 PM

From Connie Willis' Introduction to Miracle and other Christmas Stories:

It's a Wonderful Life is supposed to be The Best Christmas Movie Ever, with ten million showings [this was apparently written before NBC bought the rights and scaled it down to one showing] and accompanying merchandising. (I saw an It's a Wonderful Life mouse pad this last Christmas.) And I'm not denying that there are some great scenes in it, but the movies has real problems. For one thing, the villainous Mr. Potter is still loose and unpunished at the end of the movie, something no good fairy tale ever permits. The dreadful little psychologist in Miracle on 34th Street is summarily, and very appropriately, fired, and the DA, who after all was only doing his job, repents.

But in It's a Wonderful Life, not only is Mr. Potter free, with his villainy undetected, but he has already proved to be a vindictive and malicious villain. Since this didn't work, he'll obviously try something else. And poor George is still faced with embezzlement charges, which the last time I looked don't disappear just because you pay back the money, even if the cop is smiling in the last scene.

But the worst problem seems to me to be that the ending depends on the goodness of the people of Bedford Falls, something that (especially in light of previous events) seems like a dicey proposition.

She goes on to explain why Miracle on 34th St. is a much better movie. Personally, I prefer Meet John Doe to either.

Jim F.

07-18-2002, 02:23 PM

Wow, that's an interesting opinion.

Did you ever see the IAWL + 15 mins skit on Saturday Night Live? They have Billy the absent minded banker run in and yell "I remember what I did with the money!" and they all head down to Mr. Potter's with pitchforks and torches. After thoroughly beating him and taking their money back, the end credits roll. I assume this is how she would prefer the movie ended.

I think having Potter go unpunished was a very poigniant point. George's life may be wonderful, but his trials aren't over yet. He still has a nemesis to contend with.

According to the IMDB, IAWL 2: Revenge is a Wonderful Thing will be released in 2004. Apparently George comes back from the dead as a rogue angel and ruins the lives of Potter's great grandchildren.

Mark Asher

07-18-2002, 03:00 PM

"For one thing, the villainous Mr. Potter is still loose and unpunished at the end of the movie, something no good fairy tale ever permits. The dreadful little psychologist in Miracle on 34th Street is summarily, and very appropriately, fired, and the DA, who after all was only doing his job, repents."

Potter's an old man in a wheelchair. His punishment is having to endure the success of George Bailey. It's the perfect punishment -- Potter is his own jailer. The rest of Bedford Falls gets an uplifting ending and doesn't stoop to meaness and vindictiveness.

"But in It's a Wonderful Life, not only is Mr. Potter free, with his villainy undetected, but he has already proved to be a vindictive and malicious villain. Since this didn't work, he'll obviously try something else. And poor George is still faced with embezzlement charges, which the last time I looked don't disappear just because you pay back the money, even if the cop is smiling in the last scene."

No one who watches the movie thinks he'll be brought up on charges. It's a small town and George has the missing money. It doesn't matter where it came from -- the books are squared.

"But the worst problem seems to me to be that the ending depends on the goodness of the people of Bedford Falls, something that (especially in light of previous events) seems like a dicey proposition."

What? That the ending's unbelievable? The entire movie is unbelievable. Why start picking nits now, at the end? The people are the way they are because of George Bailey's life, because one man made that much difference. That's the fairy-tale.

Yes, let's condemn every movie that's unbelievable. We won't have to spend much on our DVD libraries then. This is a critic who's just looking for reasons to diss the movie.

Matthew Gallant

07-18-2002, 03:28 PM

There was a Saturday Night Live skit of "IAWL - The Director's Cut", where Potter receives his comeuppance. The celebratory mood at the Bailey household is interrupted by someone's realization that Potter took the money. At George's exhortation, they head en masse to Potter's office, extract him from his wheelchair, and proceed to beat the stuffings out of him with fists and feet. George himself administers a flying elbow such as one might see in a wrestling match.

It was quite uproarious.

Desslock

07-18-2002, 03:46 PM

> poor George is still faced with embezzlement charges, which the last time I looked don't disappear just because you pay back the money, even if the cop is smiling in the last scene

He was never facing embezzlement charges. He was facing criminal charges for not being able to pay his debts (no easy bankruptcy out back then). Bad old days of debtor prisons.

JeffL

07-18-2002, 05:02 PM

Tom - you never saw the Godfather? Living in the city where the theater ads section of the paper is thicker than my city's Sunday paper? Didn't they show that in Divinity School?

IAWL: I saw that so much as a kid growing up that I can't quite imagine what it's like to see for the first time as an adult. We usually watch our DVD of it during the Christmas season with the kids (along with the other must-sees, such as the Muppet Christmas Carol - great version, Michael Cain as Scrooge).

Murph

07-18-2002, 09:57 PM

The Muppets' Christmas Carol may very well be my favorite Christmas movie ever.

mtkafka

07-18-2002, 10:34 PM

Isaw Godfather trilogy during college (a couple years after Godfather III came out) and I was very impressed! Its a great epic tragicdrama. And its not really a mob movie, but more a tragedy except the corleone family are mobsters instead of kings and queens. Loved it! Tom, what the hell are you waiting for? Go see the darn thing!

etc

hido

07-18-2002, 10:56 PM

Let me just pop back in here: You've never seen The Godfather? What's your fucking problem?

Sparky

07-18-2002, 11:07 PM

The Muppets' Christmas Carol may very well be my favorite Christmas movie ever.

Yup -- Rizzo the Rat in one of his finest roles. "Light the lamp, not the rat!"

Brad Grenz

07-19-2002, 12:23 AM

I never saw the Muppet's Christmas Carol, but I really like Muppet's Treasure Island.

I've not seen the Godfather movies either. Or Scarface, or Goodfellas, or Taxi Driver. I really ought to some time. I would not refuse any donations to my disposable income.

Murph

07-19-2002, 04:16 AM

The Muppets' Christmas Carol may very well be my favorite Christmas movie ever.

Yup -- Rizzo the Rat in one of his finest roles. "Light the lamp, not the rat!"

Totally. Rizzo pretty much made that movie for me.

Brad, you should see that one. Really. It's just so fun.

mtkafka

07-19-2002, 04:27 AM

"I've not seen the Godfather movies either. Or Scarface, or Goodfellas, or Taxi Driver."

:shock:

You're insane. Go watch and rent them. They be good Brad... you nutball. Don't tell me you watch the 'overrated' Soprano's.... yeesh, I'm tired of mob movies, but Goodfellas, Godfather and Scarface (new and old versions!) stand on there own as just great movies! Taxi Driver isa nutty movie but good too!

etc

Supertanker

07-19-2002, 07:50 AM

"A Christmas Story" will easily put the eye out of "The Muppets' Christmas Carol."

Bub, Andrew

07-19-2002, 09:13 AM

... and Michael Caine has nothing on George C. Scott in terms of Scrooge.

Tom Chick

07-19-2002, 10:13 AM

You guys will be pleased to know that The Godfather and Wizard of Oz have both in my Netflix queue for some time. But first I gotta knock off stuff like The One, Tremors 2, and Notting Hill.

-Tom

Jason Levine

07-19-2002, 10:26 AM

"A Christmas Story" will easily put the eye out of "The Muppets' Christmas Carol."

"A Chirstmas Story" remains my favorite Christmas movie despite the fact that it's replaced "It's A Wonderful Life" as the most over-shown holiday film. The original "Miracle on 34th Street" is a close second, mainly because no other screen Santa ever deserves to hold Edmund Gwynn's cane, and the courtroom scenes were wonderful, with great touches like the Brooklyn accent of the baliff: "Draw near and ye shall be hoid!"