E3 Booth Babes

[DanVerssen]

Hello All,

I went to the E3 computer show yesterday and I've posted pictures of interest on the DVG site, along with a mini E3 review. Enjoy!

Disclaimer: My primary focus of the show is the Booth Babes, you can probably figure out what the pictures are of... :)


-Dan Verssen

www.dvg.com

[instant0]

I understand the big smile =)


Interesting that you had a product "Starforce Terra". If this was released before the Starforce Copy Restriction technology, you might be able to sue them for using your name/brand and giving it such a bad reputation?

Course, Money > Justice so whoever has the most will win.

I want to go to E3 once. They are open for the public as well, are they not?

[Robert Sharp]

Whenever I look at pictures of booth babes, I always think they all look like skanks, which I don't find attractive. But there's always one (sometimes two) that are like Julia Roberts in Pretty Woman. You just want to rescue them from that world and say "You actually are pretty, in a sweet way. You don't have to degrade yourself this way. Here's some money. Use it to live while you look for a real job."

Maybe that's just me.

[Alan Au]

I want to go to E3 once. They are open for the public as well, are they not? Er, not quite accurate. They are open to the "public" if you have money. Another way to go is to be "sent" by someone, with the implication that your sender is footing the bill. There's also the press option, but they've wised up recently and are starting to check credentials more carefully.

- Alan

[Squirrel Killer]

Whenever I look at pictures of booth babes, I always think they all look like skanks...
Whenever I look at pictures of booth babes, I always think they how much of a Neanderthal I would feel like posing with them. I'm not sure I'd even get as far as asking them to pose with me before I shot my brains out in humiliation.

[Andrew Mayer]

"You actually are pretty, in a sweet way. You don't have to degrade yourself this way. Here's some money. Use it to live while you look for a real job."

Maybe that's just me.

You should try going up to a booth babe and handing her some cash and then try to explain your honest, gentlemanly, intentions. Perhaps you could use a psuedo English accent.

I'm guessing the reaction will be more like "Pretty Woman" than you initially imagined.

[Slainte Mhath]

"Booth babes" (or "talent" as they sometimes prefer to be called) are not at all embarassed to be there. This is what they do, they know they look good doing it, and they get paid for the job. It may not be their life's ambition (most are aspiring models or just making extra money by hiring out as talent) to be a convention floor model, but they're certainly not going to be ashamed of it, nor should they be.

The embarassed people should be the atendees. Not that I'd want to put any of these ladies out of work, but why the hell do we need scanitly clad women to sell video games, consoles or other gaming products? Isn't it just perpetuating a stereotype that in order to get "geeks" to come look at your booth you need pretty girls to lure them in? Shouldn't the products do that? It's embarassing to think that a manufacturer has so little respect for ME that they would think a pretty girl in a skimpy outfit would draw me in like a moth to a flame.

I'm here to see games and gaming stuff. If I want to see T&A I know where the strip club is, thanks.

[Dirt]

For the same reason we need scantily clad women to sell beer, motorcycles, cars, etc.

[delirium]

The embarassed people should be the atendees. Not that I'd want to put any of these ladies out of work, but why the hell do we need scanitly clad women to sell video games, consoles or other gaming products? Isn't it just perpetuating a stereotype that in order to get "geeks" to come look at your booth you need pretty girls to lure them in? Shouldn't the products do that? It's embarassing to think that a manufacturer has so little respect for ME that they would think a pretty girl in a skimpy outfit would draw me in like a moth to a flame.


Sexy women to sell products? Why I never!

Hasn't the cliche phrase "sex sells" been beaten into your brain by now? It's just standard marketing practice by this point.

[Fussbett]

On the upside, the Babes were very friendly this year, which is not to say they were unfriendly in years past, they were just friendlier this year. On the personal side, I seem to have put on a few pounds since last year, hopefully that can be fixed by next year.
Do not discount the possibility that Babe friendliness is directly proportional to the amount of pounds carried by the E3 patron. Think about this before losing weight for next year.

[Slainte Mhath]

Sexy women to sell products? Why I never!

Hasn't the cliche phrase "sex sells" been beaten into your brain by now? It's just standard marketing practice by this point.

Yes, sex sells. That's why it's all over the insides of gaming magazines, men's lifestyle mags, beer commercials, sporting events, etc., etc., etc.. I'm perfectly cool with that, it's a broad market thing.

But I'm talking in the context of a convention. A place where manufacturers from a hobby are locked in the same room for a week straight with rabid fans of said same hobby. It's as captive a market as you'll ever get! Why bring a distraction into the picture when the real reason the consumers are there in the first place is the games?

[metta]

The worst thing about attending E3 as a vendor (apart from all the standing) is on Saturday, when they open the doors to the masses, all the little shits who go out of their way to come up to you and tell you why your game sucks. >.<

[chet]

But I'm talking in the context of a convention. A place where manufacturers from a hobby are locked in the same room for a week straight with rabid fans of said same hobby. It's as captive a market as you'll ever get! Why bring a distraction into the picture when the real reason the consumers are there in the first place is the games?

Have you ever been to E3? Any other convention?

[Ephraim]

I thought Tom frowned on this kind of site self-pimpage without his permission?

[chet]

I thought Tom frowned on this kind of site self-pimpage without his permission?

Dan regularly comes here and links to his horribly ugly website... and Dan, a little hint - on your page, when you say you have a link, just link to it, don't tell people to go look for the link. Dan's website scares me off of ever trying one of his games.

Chet

[noun]

Holy shit, it's David Cross in 10 years...

[claybob]

I thought Tom frowned on this kind of site self-pimpage without his permission?

You mean like this (http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?t=24169)?

[DrDel]

damn, I thought this thread would be a listing of e3 photos from this year.

what a let down!

[schizoslayer]

Yes, sex sells. That's why it's all over the insides of gaming magazines, men's lifestyle mags, beer commercials, sporting events, etc., etc., etc.. I'm perfectly cool with that, it's a broad market thing.

But I'm talking in the context of a convention. A place where manufacturers from a hobby are locked in the same room for a week straight with rabid fans of said same hobby. It's as captive a market as you'll ever get! Why bring a distraction into the picture when the real reason the consumers are there in the first place is the games?

After being locked in a convention hall for a week with the people I've met in the games industry Booth babes would be a welcome change.

[Lunch of Kong]

Have you ever been to E3? Any other convention?

I want so badly to be invited to a cosmetic surgery convention. Somehow, I think the booth babes there will actually be relevant to the products they're selling. "Come check out how natural these butt implants feel!"

[Steve Canyon]

Whenever I look at pictures of booth babes, I always think they all look like skanks, which I don't find attractive. But there's always one (sometimes two) that are like Julia Roberts in Pretty Woman. You just want to rescue them from that world and say "You actually are pretty, in a sweet way. You don't have to degrade yourself this way. Here's some money. Use it to live while you look for a real job."

Maybe that's just me.

All the sweet looking ones are on the look out for guys like you, Robert!

[Lunch of Kong]

Maybe that's just me.

That's rather patronizing, actually. Booth babes could probably say the same about our jobs: "Why would you want to spend your life doing XXX? Is that really the best use of your skills? You don't have to degrade yourself. Here's some money while you look for a real job."

[Equisilus]

Whenever I look at pictures of booth babes, I always think they all look like skanks, which I don't find attractive. <snip>
Maybe that's just me.

No, not just you. Hey, I'm sure they are great gals, doing a job they enjoy (perhaps), and look great in the 'normal' world, but I agree with you. I probably wouldn't second glance (at least, not in a good way) any made-up as they are at these conventions.

But you know, it must work, cause look at all those pics with Dan....

Besides, it just feeds the usual stereotype of the industry being for a bunch of immature males living in a fantasy world. It may be true but it doesn't mean we should advertise it.

[MikeSofaer]

http://news.com.com/2300-1043_3-6070849-1.html?tag=ne.gall.pg

Saved by FARK

[Robert Sharp]

That's rather patronizing, actually. Booth babes could probably say the same about our jobs: "Why would you want to spend your life doing XXX? Is that really the best use of your skills? You don't have to degrade yourself. Here's some money while you look for a real job."


Maybe, but my point is more that they are patronizing themselves when they base their lives on how they look (note the implants). I suppose you could argue that any job is degrading on some level, but booth babes aren't really that far from prostitution in some ways, as far as what they are selling.

Besides, my point was less about them and more about my silly savior complex.

[Enidigm]

It's sort of a postmodern dilemma.

We've been fighting for the rights of women to not be sexual objects for so long that we're taken aback, when, given the opportunity not to be, some voluntarily choose to be anyway, (at least for the right price!).

It's like going to a strip club and being embarrassed for the girls working there. Well i suppose there are hard luck cases, but generally they are there by choice, and you're there by choice, so .. perhaps you shouldn't feel guilty? (As a caveat, i've never been to a strip club. I feel guilty :) ).

I'm sure many of these women feel like Wonder Women among flocks of braying sheep, hands on spandex hips, lasso on belt ready for action. Virtually every woman wants to be attractive, and from their perspective i'm sure many of them feel far more powerful then all the guilty hordes of pasty geeks oggling them.

But, hey, you're a pasty geek, and you're at E3! So maybe it's your job to oggle.

The only real question is whether it's right to have booth babes at all in the tradeshow. If it is, well, don't feel so guilty about it.

[ElGuapo]

but booth babes aren't really that far from prostitution in some ways, as far as what they are selling.

That's a really dumb thing to say. Really.

Would you call every model who ever modelled anything, who was attractive and not wearing a head to toe coverage close to being a prostitute?

[schizoslayer]

Well if we're going to analyse the booth babes properly I found some more lurking in a blog at BeyondUnreal.

http://www.beyondunreal.com/content/articles/147_1.php

Note how one company has circumvented the "revealing clothing" issue by dressing them in latex catsuits.

Also I feel very sorry for the poor Americas Army bloke who is in full sniper type camo in the blazing LA sun.

[Erik]

but booth babes aren't really that far from prostitution in some ways

Seriously, though, In some ways your post isn't different from instructions for the Holocaust by Adolf Hitler. Onto the next thread!

[Shadarr]

The simple fact is that hot young women can make more money by being objectified than pretty much anything else. Therefor it makes sound business sense for them to do so, for as long as they can. If a woman wants to be a doctor, which is the better option: going to med school right away and ending up with loans in excess of $100,000 or modelling/stripping/doing internet porn for a few years and paying most or all of her tuition out of pocket?

[DanVerssen]

I've known a couple booth babes socially, and they think of it as a just a job. The girls knew that they're pretty, and didn't mind the work.

They didn't mind guys coming up to them and asking to take pictures or having a short chat.

What they did mind were guys hitting on them or making lewd jokes.

Here's my take on it. Guys like to look at good looking women. Good looking women liked to be looked at. As long as everyone is respectful, everyone will have a good time.

-Dan Verssen
www.dvg.com

[DanVerssen]

Chet, I'm open to ideas on the look of the DVG site. Are there any game company sites that you like the look of? I'd be happy to take a look.

-Dan Verssen
www.dvg.com

[Rimbo]

That's a really dumb thing to say. Really.

Would you call every model who ever modelled anything, who was attractive and not wearing a head to toe coverage close to being a prostitute?

They're not?

Edit: Although I admit I don't apply quite the negative crack-whore connotation to the word "prostitute" that other people tend to. The fact that one of my best friends worked as one for a while might have something to do with that, though.

[Enidigm]

The simple fact is that hot young women can make more money by being objectified than pretty much anything else. Therefor it makes sound business sense for them to do so, for as long as they can. If a woman wants to be a doctor, which is the better option: going to med school right away and ending up with loans in excess of $100,000 or modelling/stripping/doing internet porn for a few years and paying most or all of her tuition out of pocket?

The wierd thing is that it's hard for me to decide whether this is right and healthy or not. I don't think it's good that selling their sexuality is far more profitable for most women then ordinary jobs, but then again i don't want to deny women the ability to use their sexuality as a counterweight to male culture and predominance.

Although i think your example exaggerates the issue just a bit.

[Shadarr]

Strippers can make $1000-2000 per night. $1000 x 2 nights per week = $100,000 a year before taxes. It's not unreasonable to think they could save up tuition money if they did it for a couple years (assuming they didn't just blow it all on comic books and gum).

Now, as to whether it's good or not, that's harder to say. I think it's good that people are becoming less uptight about sexuality, and that porn is being democratized and made more woman-friendly by the internet. There may be negative ramifications for society as a whole, but I think most women don't worry a whole lot about that.

[Fugitive]

If a woman wants to be a doctor, which is the better option: going to med school right away and ending up with loans in excess of $100,000 or modelling/stripping/doing internet porn for a few years and paying most or all of her tuition out of pocket?
And as an added bonus you'll be more relaxed when you go for your doctor's appointment, since you'll have already seen her naked.

[DanVerssen]

I'm assuming that most of the people in this thread are guys.

If you could make $100,000 a year by dressing in revealing clothes and talking with women a couple nights a week who found you attractive, would you do it?

-Dan Verssen
www.dvg.com

[TreadingLeitly]

I've never seen a med student or law student go that route to be perfectly honest. What I HAVE seen are graduate students in areas unlikely to bring in the bacon, even with those magic three letters after thier name, use their sex appeal to fund their intellectual interests. People in history, literature, music, art, etc. Even amongst so called "full endowment" instiutions there is generally a funding cutoff after the first two years and about half as many TAships as students needing them.

I see no problem with these individuals exploiting their sexuality to get the money they need.

I do have a problem with the fact that "ooh-la-la" carries so much more weight than "P-H-D".

[Dr Fear]

Strippers can make $1000-2000 per night. $1000 x 2 nights per week = $100,000 a year before taxes. It's not unreasonable to think they could save up tuition money if they did it for a couple years (assuming they didn't just blow it all on comic books and gum).
Four years of medical school tuition and living expenses runs around $250,000 now. If you paid taxes on your $100,000 per year (including self-employment tax since I doubt strippers pay FICA), took home $65,000 per year, spent $25,000 per year just to live, and saved every penny of the rest, that's almost seven years of stripping to pay for medical school. By which time the average cost would probably be $300,000, and you'd be really tired of it.

[Dr Fear]

Even amongst so called "full endowment" instiutions there is generally a funding cutoff after the first two years and about half as many TAships as students needing them.
I assume you do not men graduate school in the sciences, as this is the opposite of what the case actually is.

[TreadingLeitly]

Natural Sci and Engineering have a great deal in graduate school. TAships, reasearch assistantships, and quite frankly, their odds of doing well for themselves financially after graduation are a lot better too. Folks seem to actually value that kind of knowledge enough to pay for it. The arts and humanities are a different story entirely.

[Robert Sharp]

That's a really dumb thing to say. Really.

Would you call every model who ever modelled anything, who was attractive and not wearing a head to toe coverage close to being a prostitute?

Please read what I said. I said insofar as what they are selling is sex, they are not that different from prostitutes. Yes, that is true of ALL models, male or female, as long as they are essentially selling sex and not something else (many models really are just selling watches/clothing/whatever). Let me be clear though that I have no problem with any of it, including prostitution, which I think should be legalized. But some forms of the modeling trade seem degrading to me. If the women themselves don't feel that way, that's great, but it doesn't change what they are doing and how society will view them.

I probably shouldn't have used 'degrading' in the first place though, since it was a much stronger word than I intended.

[Robert Sharp]

I'm assuming that most of the people in this thread are guys.

If you could make $100,000 a year by dressing in revealing clothes and talking with women a couple nights a week who found you attractive, would you do it?

-Dan Verssen
www.dvg.com

No. I wouldn't, but I still see your point.

[Qenan]

For the same reason we need scantily clad women to sell beer, motorcycles, cars, etc.

Hormone-induced stupidity, in other words.

[Shadarr]

I've never seen a med student or law student go that route to be perfectly honest. What I HAVE seen are graduate students in areas unlikely to bring in the bacon, even with those magic three letters after thier name, use their sex appeal to fund their intellectual interests.
You're probably right, because even thought they wind up with huge loans the med students pretty much know they'll be able to pay them off. But it's also a stronger case for stripping when the options are get a degree and pay for it by stripping, get a degree and have huge loans with no realistic career path to pay them off, or else don't get the degree you want.

[Angie Gallant]

If you could make $100,000 a year by dressing in revealing clothes and talking with women a couple nights a week who found you attractive, would you do it?

The men on this board probably don't worry much about being raped by women.

[jeffd]

I seriously doubt that the vast majority of strippers can pull in 1k a night.

I mean, I'm sure there are a handful that do, but they aren't at all representative.

[Sebmolo]

Can I speak for me and say those pictures are creepy as fuck?

[chet]

Please read what I said. I said insofar as what they are selling is sex, they are not that different from prostitutes. Yes, that is true of ALL models, male or female, as long as they are essentially selling sex and not something else (many models really are just selling watches/clothing/whatever). Let me be clear though that I have no problem with any of it, including prostitution, which I think should be legalized. But some forms of the modeling trade seem degrading to me. If the women themselves don't feel that way, that's great, but it doesn't change what they are doing and how society will view them.

I probably shouldn't have used 'degrading' in the first place though, since it was a much stronger word than I intended.

hee hee hee.

And Robert, I find your sexist talk sexy... so hot... what does that make you? Say something stupid and sexist again.. oh yeah.... oh oh yeah....

[Robert Sharp]

hee hee hee.

And Robert, I find your sexist talk sexy... so hot... what does that make you? Say something stupid and sexist again.. oh yeah.... oh oh yeah....

So the fact that I said it doesn't matter if they are male or female means nothing to you?

Edit: Also, I guess I am missing where my saying that there is something degrading about women being exploited for their bodies is sexist. So please, chet, since you know all...fill me in.

[chet]

So the fact that I said it doesn't matter if they are male or female means nothing to you?

Not in the least bit.



Edit: Also, I guess I am missing where my saying that there is something degrading about women being exploited for their bodies is sexist. So please, chet, since you know all...fill me in.

Robert, does your boyfriend know you are gay?

[Unicorn McGriddle]

The men on this board probably don't worry much about being raped by women.

QFT :(

[DaveC]

I'm assuming that most of the people in this thread are guys.

If you could make $100,000 a year by dressing in revealing clothes and talking with women a couple nights a week who found you attractive, would you do it?

-Dan Verssen
www.dvg.com

If you think booth babes are making that kind of coin you need to put the pipe down for a bit.

[shift6]

I've never seen a med student or law student go that route to be perfectly honest.
You never attended UNLV (Las Vegas). I knew at least four chicks in my couple years there who were strippers/dancers to pay their pre-law and law tuition.


I seriously doubt that the vast majority of strippers can pull in 1k a night.

I mean, I'm sure there are a handful that do, but they aren't at all representative.
Most of the strippers I knew in Vegas made about $200-300 a night when they first started out. I knew of a couple who also hooked and charged upwards of $2000 an hour.</anecdote>

[JMR]

Well dude it's Las Vegas.

[DaveC]

Strippers can make $1000-2000 per night. $1000 x 2 nights per week = $100,000 a year before taxes. It's not unreasonable to think they could save up tuition money if they did it for a couple years (assuming they didn't just blow it all on comic books and gum).


Can make. However, when I drove cab the vast majority of strippers I knew were always on the verge of being broke. There was 1 out of about 20 (the local hotel in my area had a strip club and a cab stand for the company I worked for) that caught my cab on a regular basis that actually saved money and owned a house with plans to go to college. The rest were pretty well fucked up party girls. They made decent money, but no where near $100K a year. For some reason my taxi cab was a substitute confessional and I heard all the gossip. Anyway, there might be a couple name brand booth models that make top coin, but the majority probably make close to actor scale or less for a few days work here and there. It's usually a second job for most according the few that I talked to.

[DaveC]

Can I speak for me and say those pictures are creepy as fuck?

I wasn't going to go there, but I'm glad someone did.

[wildpokerman]

Hooray it's the annual booth babe shame a thon.

This Story (http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/print?id=1919192) shows that raising men's wages is the best way to end prostitution. I suggest a control experiment where my wages are doubled and we check the effect on prostitution in 20 years.

[stusser]

It's just like any other job, the high end at gown clubs can do quite well, pulling in over $100k/yr, but the tipout is extremely high so if you have a bad night you can work 6 hours sitting on smelly fat dudes' laps and lose money. The girls at gown clubs are uniformly young and gorgeous, all tattoos are covered up with makeup, beer is $10 plus tip. Public dances are topless only. If you offer blowjobs in VIP your takehome triples. Most of the hotter girls start off here, if they're smart enough to come to a metropolitan area with enough money to support a gown club.

Then you go a step down, to clubs with a name but less class. Girls don't wear gowns, they wear stripper clothes (hotpants, microskirts, etc) and fuckme heels. Usually full nude public dances. Visible tattoos, beer is $6. This is the top end if you don't live in a major metro area. In cities, this is where the really hot girls end up after a few years of doing meth and giving surreptitious head. Tipout is much lower, and the frontrunners can pull in $100k, but they have to work harder and it's scummier. The difference between playboy and hustler. As usual, offering blowjobs really scales up that salary.

Below that you have your neighborhood clubs, beer is bud light and costs $4, usually 95% full of skanks with one or two lookers, and below that you have the clubs in paterson NJ... take my advice, don't go. And below that, welcome to tijuana, gringo. Ayy papi!

[Jeff Fries]

Being a booth babe = I Am Legend with nerds

[VegasRobb]

I figured this thread wasn't going to happen this year because of the restrictions on Booth Babes.

[Cosmic Hippo]

It isn't about the "booth babes" themselves resorting to that - hey, it's an easy way to make some money, and if you're comfortable with it, why not? What I don't like about it is the fact that the tactic still works. Companies aren't going to stop "selling sex" until a) it's banned, or b) it stops working. Ironically, the quickest way to make it stop working would be to have them stop doing it. It's very self-propogating.

[bago]

Tee hee (http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/e3/booth-babes-protest-e3-bikini-ban-173061.php)!

[DanVerssen]

Great protesters!

If more protesters looked like that, their causes would be more successful. It's hard to support a cause that has ugly protesters.

-Dan Verssen
www.dvg.com

[instant0]

Thats why many causes have spokes-persons that are (semi)-famous so the tv-audience can feel that they "identify" more with the cause, since it is fronted by someone they could classify as 'hot' or 'handsome'.

There is no business like showbusiness.

[metta]

Thats why many causes have spokes-persons that are (semi)-famous so the tv-audience can feel that they "identify" more with the cause, since it is fronted by someone they could classify as 'hot' or 'handsome'.

There is no business like showbusiness.

Yeah, and it's more than sex appeal. A co-worker and his bride had their first child and he reported "I totally get what Johnny Depp's talking about when he speaks about his kids". Celebrities legitimize things for people.

[instant0]

Metta:
Celebrities legitimize things for *some* people.

:-)

It is very sad actually.

People are not interested in issues unless there is a famous person talking about it.

[Bill Dungsroman]

Okay, who can top last year's "Fattest Conventioneer/Most Horrified Boothbabe Pic?"

That being this:

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/4139/themdukesthemdukes9bc.jpg

[Michael Fortson]

Okay, who can top last year's "Fattest Conventioneer/Most Horrified Boothbabe Pic?"
Something tells me that door wasn't welded shut.

[Quitch]

The Booth Babe regulations were just another case of some pressure group forcing their morals onto others, and thus having rules introduced that aren't required. If Booth Babes put people off, then they'll disappear, and if they don't then they won't.

Welcome to the world of market forces. No regulation required, you're there to sell or draw attention to product, and if you think scantily clad women are going to do it, then why the hell can't you put scantily clad women there?

It's just the games industry pussy footing around again because it hasn't built up a powerful lobby of its own yet.

[Troy S Goodfellow]

The Booth Babe regulations were just another case of some pressure group forcing their morals onto others, and thus having rules introduced that aren't required.

Or a sign that an industry too easily associated with hormone driven teenagers wanted to do a little something to downplay that image.

Troy

[ElGuapo]

Companies aren't going to stop "selling sex" until a) it's banned, or b) it stops working.

a) is scary, but o-k. The government can put restrictions on such thing, I suppose. Welcome to pre-2001 Afghanistan!

b) will never happen. We're biologically wired to find attractive people, um, attractive, and want to impress them. Using sex to sell gives an underlying message of "buy this product and you will impress this attractive potential mate". It's never going to dissappear.

Trends may come and go. I'd love to see sensuality and model attractiveness play a lot less role in advertising and merit play a larger part. I'd love a feature list for sales pitches ala early TV advertising. But I doubt it will happen.

[Quitch]

Or a sign that an industry too easily associated with hormone driven teenagers wanted to do a little something to downplay that image.

Troy

Yes, because once they've left the teenage years behind, no man is affected by his hormones.

Men are hormone driven creatures, and for some reason that seems to offend some people. Sorry, but men, for the most part, like scantily clad women. I don't see anything changing any time soon.

The industry is worth $18 billion a year. Who cares what it's associated with, it hasn't stopped it growing at an incredible rate.

[metta]

Yes, because once they've left the teenage years behind, no man is affected by his hormones.

Men are hormone driven creatures, and for some reason that seems to offend some people. Sorry, but men, for the most part, like scantily clad women. I don't see anything changing any time soon.

The industry is worth $18 billion a year. Who cares what it's associated with, it hasn't stopped it growing at an incredible rate.

That's incorrect. Drooling cro-magnons like scantily clad women. Men who learned to walk upright, and have an understanding of how positioning women as the sex class harms all of us, are a little more discerning in their tastes.

The industry growth has very little to do with the fact that you like looking at boobs. The fact that many publishers are moving away from that paradigm has a lot to do with it:


One of the common statistics often cited by video game industry trade groups is that the average age of a gamer nowadays is around 30 years old. What you might not know, however, is that among game players between the ages of 25 and 34, women far outnumber men, according to a new study by the Consumer Electronics Association (as reported in The New York Times).

The CEA study found that 65 percent of women in the 25-34 age bracket play video games, while only 35 percent of men in that group said that they play video games.

If you want your titles to do well, aim them at the broadest possible audience. Not just the neanderthals.

[Robert Sharp]

Robert, does your boyfriend know you are gay?

Ah, you got me. For a second there I thought you were really flaming me. I didn't realize you were joking.

[Troy S Goodfellow]

Who cares what it's associated with, it hasn't stopped it growing at an incredible rate.

A lot of people care what it's associated with.

Check out the "gamers at work" thread and see some serious people trapped in an environment that sees games as child's play and not a pasttime worthy of any discussion.

Check out any of Angie's complaints about why female RPG romances suck and try to separate that from an industry primarily concerned with teenage male fantasies about what relationships - or even women - are like.

Check out last year's keynote address by the head of the Entertainment Software Association, wherein he says that the industry has an image problem and that it bears a lot of responsibility for accepting that what it does affects how people see it.

Games do not exist in a vaccuum. They are part of the social currency. Booth babes always struck me as more as a juvenile embarrassment than an affront to women, but if the first thing that a girl gamer sees in E3 coverage is a huge link to HOTT PIXX then the industry demographics begin to make sense.

You may not care how people see your hobby. Some of us wish we didn't have to defend it.

(Oh, and no use bringing in the "But other industries do it" defense. I frankly don't care about boat shows.)

Troy

[Ryan A]

The only thing worse than the companies that hire booth babes are the sweaty losers that get their picture taken with them.

[Raife]

The only thing worse than the companies that hire booth babes are the sweaty losers that get their picture taken with them.

Zing!

[Quitch]

That's incorrect. Drooling cro-magnons like scantily clad women. Men who learned to walk upright, and have an understanding of how positioning women as the sex class harms all of us, are a little more discerning in their tastes.

I find it sad that it's even an issue. So women can do anything men can, but they can't be scantily clad because that makes them a sex class.

Oh yes, a true revolution.

I feel pity for people who would judge computing by booth babes. It simply shows how shallow they are.

[Aeroplane]

(Oh, and no use bringing in the "But other industries do it" defense. I frankly don't care about boat shows.)

Troy

I think it's instructive to mention other industries. Most that I can think of have booth babes of some sort at their trade shows. Heck, I used to go to American Chemical Society meetings, and one of the software vendors there was renowned for its booth babes. People of both genders got a big kick out of it for the most part.

But the important difference is that the ACS isn't currently fighting an image that it is juvenile. When a chemical software vendor puts hot models in its booth, people recognize it as a tongue-in-cheek move and laugh it off. When a video game publisher does the same thing, people see it as yet another attempt to profit off of teenage boys' hormones. It reinforces the exact stereotype that the industry, for the most part, is trying to shed. Once that stereotype isn't as prevalent, E3 booth babes will just be another set of models hawking products. I have no idea when that will be, though.

[Quitch]

But that's what's so pathetic, that this particular image is looked down on as tacky and juvenile, as though somehow you grow out of sex.

It's just so narrow-minded. But most of all, it's just so... modern.

[Squirrel Killer]

But that's what's so pathetic, that this particular image is looked down on as tacky and juvenile, so though somehow you grow out of sex.
...it's called "marriage."

[Aeroplane]

But that's what's so pathetic, that this particular image is looked down on as tacky and juvenile, so though somehow you grow out of sex.

It's just so narrow-minded. But most of all, it's just so... modern.

Perhaps it is pathetic, though that's a discussion that can (and probably will) go on forever. Regardless, if an industry is looking to broaden its appeal, it's a whole lot more effective for it to conform to the prevailing mores than to try to change them.


...it's called "marriage."

My lunch tasted better when it wasn't seasoned with my tears.


[Edited because I did the it's/its thing. Gah!]

[Troy S Goodfellow]

But that's what's so pathetic, that this particular image is looked down on as tacky and juvenile, so though somehow you grow out of sex.

I don't get what the hell sex has to do with any of this, though. Why are games (or any other product) sold with the sex carrot? Does it add anything? Does it make the game better? The marketing more persuasive?

Think of all the E3 booth babes you have seen - better yet, think of the pictures Dan took.

What games were being pitched?

Outside of booth babes tied to now iconic images (Lara Croft, Everquest Elf Queen and Daisy Duke) can you think of any booth babes that immediately make you think about the product for sale?

I'm sure things were worse when G.O.D. Games had "schoolgirls" and strippers at their parties.

It's the Hooters business model, only there is zero evidence that it even works. A few dozen EB Assistant Managers get their picture taken beside Vampire Lady With Big Guns and nothing is done to to advance the product one bit.

Booth babes aren't "wrong" or "immoral". But they are tacky and assume that men are easily persuaded by cleavage tucked into a tight shirt. You could argue that it's more an insult to me than to women.

I'm sure it's cheaper than hiring a magician, so maybe that's the attraction. Even those "protesters" were hired by a marketing company leeching off the great Intellivision name.

Troy
- glad to have not outgrown sex, but glad to have outgrown the need to have it vicariously through showroom models

[Ryan A]

But that's what's so pathetic, that this particular image is looked down on as tacky and juvenile, so though somehow you grow out of sex.

It's just so narrow-minded. But most of all, it's just so... modern.

Just because using booth babes is tacky and juvenile doesn't mean sex is tacky and juvenile. The fact that you would conflate the two is what's truly pathetic here.

[Justin Fletcher]

But the important difference is that the ACS isn't currently fighting an image that it is juvenile. When a chemical software vendor puts hot models in its booth, people recognize it as a tongue-in-cheek move and laugh it off. When a video game publisher does the same thing, people see it as yet another attempt to profit off of teenage boys' hormones. It reinforces the exact stereotype that the industry, for the most part, is trying to shed. Once that stereotype isn't as prevalent, E3 booth babes will just be another set of models hawking products. I have no idea when that will be, though.
I completely agree with you and Troy, but the booth babe ban strikes me as the proverbial cart before the horse. Even if every booth babe was replaced with George Plimpton extolling the virtues of the latest titles, it wouldn't change the fact that most of the time he would be hawking a product that revelled in the amount of gore and/or sex on display. Gaming booth babes reflect gaming marketing which reflects gaming content. To remove the juvenile stigma, change must first come from the latter.

[Aeroplane]

I completely agree with you and Troy, but the booth babe ban strikes me as the proverbial cart before the horse. Even if every booth babe was replaced with George Plimpton extolling the virtues of the latest titles, it wouldn't change the fact that most of the time he would be hawking a product that revelled in the amount of gore and/or sex on display. Gaming booth babes reflect gaming marketing which reflects gaming content. To remove the juvenile stigma, change must first come from the latter.

That's true, I agree - and not only because I now have a disturbing image of George Plimpton dressed as Lara Croft talking up the latest Tomb Raider (my own issue, I understand). Toning down the booth babes alone doesn't do a whole lot to remove the stigma. It does at least start to send a better message, and it's the only part of the process that the organizers of the conference are able to control. But the best way to get people to stop thinking that games are juvenile is certainly to make sure that the games themselves aren't, well, juvenile.

[Slainte Mhath]

Have you ever been to E3? Any other convention?

Yes, and yes. Thank you for that thought provoking contribution to the thread.

[Slainte Mhath]

I see that in the ensuing 24 hours there are a couple of other people making the same point I was trying to make originally, though they are doing so much more eloquently than I.

I know that between this thread and the "Sex in Games" thread I'm probably starting to look like some anti-sex ultra-right-wing nutjob, and nothing could be farther from the truth. I'm a total liberal, and support the rights of free speech. I'm all about supporting the right of developers and publishers to create adult oriented games and include and promote sexual themes in games as long as it's done with maturity and measures are in place to keep minors from accessing content they shouldn't be able to.

That said, booth babes running wild at E3 and similar industry events basically serves only to further the stereotype that "Gamers" fall into one of two categories:

1) Teenage boys who everyone knows are obsessed with sex.

2) Adult males who can't get real sex, so they salivate like Pavlovian dogs over models in latex outfits. These guys have nothing better to do than play games with bouncing cartoon breasts in them on their XBox's to fill the time in between watching anime and furiously masturbating to internet porn while living in their mom's basement.


Obviously that's not true (for most of us). However, if we ever want gaming to be accepted in the mainstream, if we ever want ignorant senators from New York and crackpot lawyers to leave us the hell alone, if we ever want people to stop thinking of gamers as sex obssesed juvenile losers, then we need to make an effort to present gaming in a better light.

Having a woman dress up as Lara Croft to promote the latest Tomb Raider game is one thing. Having six women parading around in schoolgirl outfits with fishnet stockings to "promote" your latest video card release is something else entirely. I'm not saying there isn't a place for sexuality in gaming, I'm just saying we need to take it seriously before anyone else will take us seriously.

[Squirrel Killer]

Even if every booth babe was replaced with George Plimpton extolling the virtues of the latest titles...
http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/1883/plimptonad5uw.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
_____


...I now have a disturbing image of George Plimpton dressed as Lara Croft talking up the latest Tomb Raider (my own issue, I understand).
http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/8171/croftad5ph.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Aeroplane]

Wow. Did Plimpton halve the value of a picture? Or was it Intellivision? Either way, impressive.

[Sparky]

Why are games (or any other product) sold with the sex carrot?
SEX CARROT is totally going to be the name of my punk band!

Thanks, Troy.

[Slainte Mhath]

SEX CARROT is totally going to be the name of my punk band!

Thanks, Troy.


Your debut CD should be entitled "Veggie Delight!"

[RepoMan]

I've never seen a med student or law student go that route to be perfectly honest.
I have. I have two female friends, law students, who went that route. Definitely happens.

[Lunch of Kong]

The men on this board probably don't worry much about being raped by women.

That's because the men on this board can only imagine themselves being "raped" or harrassed by attractive women.

Imagine these women squeezing your ass cheeks and trying to stick their tongues in your ear:

http://www.cnn.com/US/9807/23/cia.cocaine/link.reno.jpg http://edition.cnn.com/2001/LAW/06/04/embassy.bombings.02/story.albright.jpg
http://images.washtimes.com/photos/full/20051003-102328-3981.jpg

[RepoMan]

Can I speak for me and say those pictures are creepy as fuck?
Yeah. Dan, nothing personal, but the pics would be a lot better with just the girls in them.

[Slainte Mhath]

Yeah. Dan, nothing personal, but the pics would be a lot better with just the girls in them.

Getting your wife to take the pictures of you with booth babes, I can't decide if that's genius or just plain wrong.

[fuzzyslug]

Getting your wife to take the pictures of you with booth babes, I can't decide if that's genius or just plain wrong.

I'm going with the latter.

[JM]

That's because the men on this board can only imagine themselves being "raped" or harrassed by attractive women.

Imagine these women squeezing your ass cheeks and trying to stick their tongues in your ear:

http://www.cnn.com/US/9807/23/cia.cocaine/link.reno.jpg http://edition.cnn.com/2001/LAW/06/04/embassy.bombings.02/story.albright.jpg
http://images.washtimes.com/photos/full/20051003-102328-3981.jpg

Why would Angie want to imagine that? Why would you ask her to? Weirdo.

[Lunch of Kong]

See, JM can't even imagine that I'm asking *him* to imagine that.

[DanVerssen]

Booth Babes are hired to bring attention to a booth. It works. Once you have the customer's attention, you had better have a quality product, or you will soon lose that attention, and he will walk away.

Yes, I say "he", not "he or she" because the 90%+ of the attendees were male.

Yes, sex sells. Not only does it sell, it is a vital piece of modern economics. If all products dealing with sex were removed from the market, you would lose a huge chunk of the businesses.

Not just Booth Babes, porno movies, vibrator companies, and the other obvious ones. But also, sports car makers, cosmetics, health clubs, bars, diet foods, most of the clothing industry, romantic cruises, and so on. The list is endless. A *large* segment of our economy is devoted to sex either directly or indirectly.

Why? Because it's the one thing that everyone has in common. Sports? Politics? Games? TV? Any subject has its fans, but sex is the one thing we all have an interest in. So, if you take the sex angle, you get people's attention, which is a vital first step in selling them something.

So, what about the people who are not interested in sex? Who cares. Their disinterest will die with them.

-Dan Verssen
www.dvg.com

[Troy S Goodfellow]

Yes, sex sells. Not only does it sell, it is a vital piece of modern economics.

I hate it when otherwise intelligent people use this argument because the counterexamples are legion.

In games, BMX XXX - not exactly a success.

In movies, Basic Instinct 2 or Showgirls - commercial disasters.

Sex gets attention, but it cannot and will not close the deal.


If all products dealing with sex were removed from the market, you would lose a huge chunk of the businesses.

I get sex to sell things like clothing or perfume. Those are designed to attract others. Sexy movies, of course, need to have sex.

But sex cannot sell an RPG. Sex cannot sell an FPS. And I don't think Down in Flames would sell more copies if it had half-naked ladies on whatever advertising it used. These are not, to use your phrase, "products dealing with sex."

Troy

[Quitch]

Just because using booth babes is tacky and juvenile doesn't mean sex is tacky and juvenile. The fact that you would conflate the two is what's truly pathetic here.

Yes, because of course a scantily clad booth babe certainly isn't there for sexual allure, it's for her technical knowledge...


I hate it when otherwise intelligent people use this argument because the counterexamples are legion.

In games, BMX XXX - not exactly a success.

In movies, Basic Instinct 2 or Showgirls - commercial disasters.

Sex gets attention, but it cannot and will not close the deal.

My grandfather smoked 50 a day and died at 90, so smoking can't be bad for you.


I hate it when otherwise intelligent people use this argument because the counterexamples are legion.

In games, BMX XXX - not exactly a success.

In movies, Basic Instinct 2 or Showgirls - commercial disasters.

Sex gets attention, but it cannot and will not close the deal.

E3 isn't about selling, it's about garnering attention and gaining good press.

[Dr Fear]

E3 isn't about selling, it's about garnering attention and gaining good press.
E3 is very much about selling ......to retailers. I think a number of industry people have posted here repeatedly about how the show is really about getting retailers to commit to buying games.

[SuperHiro]

I want the booth babes out of the convention and back on my computer, where they belong.

[DaveC]

Great protesters!

If more protesters looked like that, their causes would be more successful. It's hard to support a cause that has ugly protesters.

-Dan Verssen
www.dvg.com

Wow, you are just chock full of insightful goodness.

[Bill Dungsroman]

I don't get it. What entertainment medium doesn't use sex to sell itself? Or product? These days you can work up a batch to a Carl's Jr or Firestone ad. My opinion is that by making such a fuss about it, it just comes off as pretentious. Tits or the lack of tits do not make gaming a legitimate, mature entertainment medium. Revenue does.

[DaveC]

The Booth Babe regulations were just another case of some pressure group forcing their morals onto others, and thus having rules introduced that aren't required. If Booth Babes put people off, then they'll disappear, and if they don't then they won't.

Welcome to the world of market forces. No regulation required, you're there to sell or draw attention to product, and if you think scantily clad women are going to do it, then why the hell can't you put scantily clad women there?

It's just the games industry pussy footing around again because it hasn't built up a powerful lobby of its own yet.

Ummm, do you think maybe it was market forces that moved the E3 organizers to enforce the rules they established and to which all exhibitors agree to when they contract to display at E3? I for one am all for E3 being more about games and far less about tits and ass. If you want T&A go surf porn.

[Sparky]

If only some game company would hire Hugh Laurie as a booth babe...that would make E3 worthwhile, IMHO.

[DaveC]

Booth Babes are hired to bring attention to a booth. It works. Once you have the customer's attention, you had better have a quality product, or you will soon lose that attention, and he will walk away.


That only goes so far. After a day or two of being bombarded with blaring techno and explosions and having massive amounts of silicone thrust in their faces I think a buyer from Wal Mart would mostly be immune to that crap and would just look at what might actually sell. Seriously, I don't care how much testosterone you have, after a few hours on the floor at E3 you really don't care how much cleavage booth X has.

[Quitch]

Ummm, do you think maybe it was market forces that moved the E3 organizers to enforce the rules they established and to which all exhibitors agree to when they contract to display at E3? I for one am all for E3 being more about games and far less about tits and ass. If you want T&A go surf porn.

No, I think it was pressure groups.

[DaveC]

E3 isn't about selling, it's about garnering attention and gaining good press.

Okay, your level of ignorance is showing. Do you actually know what the purpose of E3 is? It is 100% about selling. It's about buyers coming to see what's hot and placing orders. It's like any other trade show where buyers negotiate deals. Why do you think every booth has those meeting rooms and why the people with the proper badges get so much attention? Sure there is hype at E3, but that's only there to generate purchasing commitments.

[Quitch]

If it's 100% about selling then you wouldn't have people from gaming mags and sites there. Yes, indirectly it's about selling, but indirectly it's about happiness because people are paid to be there and so can spend it on things they want and so...

So I don't care about indirectly. Perhaps I was a little strong in saying it's not about selling, but it's certainly not ALL about selling.

[DaveC]

No, I think it was pressure groups.

Internal pressure from an industry that wants to broaden it's market and appeal. Why do you think that they have a trade show for porn that's seperate from the regular broadcast trade show? If it's all the same why not just have it under one roof? Because it's two different markets. Markets with massive overlap, but it wouldn't be too appropriate to have a production company selling a new kid's education show next door to some booth where guys were lining up to pose with porn stars now would it?

[DaveC]

If it's 100% about selling then you wouldn't have people from gaming mags and sites there. Yes, indirectly it's about selling, but indirectly it's about happiness because people are paid to be there and so can spend it on things they want and so...

So I don't care about indirectly. Perhaps I was a little strong in saying it's not about selling, but it's certainly not ALL about selling.

God, you're being completely obtuse. Either that or you're just trolling me and I'm dumb enough to take the bait. E3 is a TRADE show that was established so that game publishers and devleopers could talk to retailers about making purchasing deals. That's it's primary function and everything at E3 is driven by that function. It is not primarily a press event. The press and hype is just to drive sales. If you don't get that then I can't help you.

[Bill Dungsroman]

SEX CARROT is totally going to be the name of my punk band!

Thanks, Troy.
IIRC, every possible phrase permutation with the word "sex" in it for a band's name was trademarked by the mid-90's, alas.

[Ryan A]

IIRC, every possible phrase permutation with the word "sex" in it for a band's name was trademarked by the mid-90's, alas.

What about Sex Funnel?

[Angie Gallant]

I have no problem with the booth babes themselves, mostly with the troglodytes that crow about having their picture taken with them like it's some sort of amazing accomplishment. No offense to the thread creator.

[Aeroplane]

Haha! Fantastic, Squirrel Killer. I missed that the first time through. You have surely restored the value of a picture.

Now it's time for me to turn to my inevitable nightmares.

[Ryan A]

I have no problem with the booth babes themselves, mostly with the troglodytes that crow about having their picture taken with them like it's some sort of amazing accomplishment. No offense to the thread creator.

If the OP is any indicator of the average slavering photo-begger, I'd classify them more as pudgy gnomes than troggs.

[Matthew Gallant]

If the OP is any indicator of the average slavering photo-begger, I'd classify them more as pudgy gnomes than troggs.
Troglodytes are known for their scent glands.

[Ryan A]

Troglodytes are known for their scent glands.

not to mention their incredibly large aggro radius and nasty stunlocks.

[Bill Dungsroman]

Okay, somebody's got to poke fun at a guy who starts a thread linking to his meaningless E3 T&A pics.

I asked a few days ago if anyone had a pic to top last year's Fat Guy With Embarassed Booth Babe pic. Silly me, the OP did:

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/1571/getemouttaheer9mf.jpg

You want to just look at the bubbly leedle blond and think it's all groovy, but then the sultry, sulky Amazon and her mouth corner upturned one micron smile nerfs the whole thing. And, Hoss, no offense: ze grin of yours, to say "Cheese" does not necessarily mean to be cheesy, non?


On the personal side, I seem to have put on a few pounds since last year, hopefully that can be fixed by next year. :-)
This...this just makes my day.

[Sparky]

I can understand getting your picture taken with a guy in a Pokemon suit, a bunch of Stormtroopers, a very enthusiastic lady dressed like Xena, or a robot caveman (hell, I'm guilty of all of those), but getting your picture taken with just, well, random attractive women in shorts? Meh. I can see those at the mall.

[Squirrel Killer]

I can understand getting your picture taken with a guy in a Pokemon suit, a bunch of Stormtroopers, a very enthusiastic lady dressed like Xena, or a robot caveman (hell, I'm guilty of all of those), but getting your picture taken with just, well, random attractive women in shorts? Meh. I can see those at the mall.
Yeah, but if you tried to get your picture taken with them, they'd think you were creepy or something.

[Enidigm]

Yea, but if i tried to get pics with me and the random girls at the mall they'd call security and call me a "prevert" whilst tossing me into the county jail.

[Enidigm]

I like my answer better :).

[wildpokerman]

I like my answer better :).

Seconded. Squirrel Killer please edit your post for more comedic effect.

[Brad Grenz]

Yea, but if i tried to get pics with me and the random girls at the mall they'd call security and call me a "prevert" whilst tossing me into the county jail.

Probably confiscate your shoe-cam, too.