We Got Him

[awdougherty]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/04/03/moussaoui/index.html

Does the mean anything in particular? Is this sort of like that one trial in the JFK assassination where it felt more like a desperate clutching at straws than real progress in the search for justice?

[Midnight Son]

We've had him for years.....

[extarbags]

My favorite part of following this case was this one report that other Al Qaeda members basically couldn't stand this guy, and say that he really had nothing to do with it. It included one higher-level guy who gave him a cell phone number for emergency use only, and eventually had to disconnect the line because Moussaoui kept calling him on it constantly. I couldn't help but laugh at the thought that, even among terrorists, there are assholes with delusions of grandeur that their co-workers just can't stand.

Also, look at the picture next to "Moussaoui shocks a packed courtroom" on that link. That's one court artist that needs to be fired.

[awdougherty]

My impression of him is that he was disliked and a dipshit moron, which is probably why we "got him."

But we got him, so White House press conference about how we're winning the war on terror in 5.... 4.... 3.... 2....

[Flowers]

So basically we caught the Dwight Schrute of Al Qaeda?

[awdougherty]

So basically we caught the Dwight Schrute of Al Qaeda?

Bingo, and an excellent analogy.

And let this serve as a message to all the other asshole retards tangentally connected to terrorism against the US. We will hunt you, wait for you to give yourself away, and we will kill you... bitches.

[CindySue22]

He seems like a nice young man, I think he should just get "time served", and let go back into society. It's too bad he has to go through all this "trial" stuff; I mean, he didn't really do anything, right?

[awdougherty]

You know I'm not saying that he should just get released, but does he deserve the death penalty? If any of the lawyers here know, is this type of thing usually a capital offense?

What we know is that he claims to be an Al Queso terrorist, that he sought flight training in a blantantly suspicious manner, and that he never participated in the 9/11 attacks. Are those facts correct? If so, death seems like a really stiff penalty.

[Steve Canyon]

I thought they caught bin Laden when I read this header and I thought to myself, "Shit, I got to stop getting my world news from this forum."

[Menzo]

The guy should definitely go to jail for life, but the death penalty, I dunno.

I'm no lawyer, but I thought the 5th amendment said that you can't be forced to incriminate yourself. Well, this guy kept his mouth shut and didn't tell people about his plans to blow shit up. Now they say because he didn't incriminate himself that he should be put to death.

Then there's the whole part about that local FBI guy who sent emails and memos to his boss saying that they should investigate but was ignored. Who's to say that they would have done anything even if he did confess?

Am I going to shed a tear if they kill him? Nah, but it does seem a bit iffy.

[Brad Grenz]

I don't think there's any point in killing him. He wants to die, for one, and he'd be the first actual martyr involved in 9/11.

[Destarius]

I don't think there's any point in killing him. He wants to die, for one, and he'd be the first actual martyr involved in 9/11.

I would have thought that Al Qaeda would consider their operatives on board the planes in 9/11 as the first martyrs.

[Brad Grenz]

I would have thought that Al Qaeda would consider their operatives on board the planes in 9/11 as the first martyrs.

Well, they may consider that, but where I come from to be a martyr, someone has to kill you for your beliefs. If you kill yourself it's just suicide. And if you take others with you, it's murder, too. Both mortal sins...

[Midnight Son]

I thought just calling Dubya a "moron" was a capital offense? Can someone enlighten me?

[Nellie]

Just don't accept an invitation to go hunting with the VP

[John Many Jars]

From what I've read, the prosecutors' argument is that he knew about the attacks and didn't do anything to prevent them, and therefore shares responsibility for the deaths of all the victims. When he finally started answering the lawyers' questions (very recently) he freely admitted knowing that planes were to hit the WTC, in addition to saying that he and Richard Reid were supposed to fly a plane into the White House --- that last part sounds made up to me, but the first part was the key to the charges. Oh, and "conspiring to use weapons of mass destruction" is actually its own crime, and he's certainly guilty of that.

To some extent he's just the only guy we could get our hands on, and he's stupid and not very important, but he wasn't a dupe --- he knew what it was all about --- and he's guilty...so fuck him. Orange-sweater-wearing motherfucker.

[extarbags]

Oh, and "conspiring to use weapons of mass destruction" is actually its own crime, and he's certainly guilty of that.

Is it its own crime that people get executed for?

[John Many Jars]

Is it its own crime that people get executed for?

I don't know whether the death penalty is supposed to apply to the conspiracy charge or to his not acting to prevent the actual deaths on 9/11. Maybe both.

[Glenn]

I don't know whether the death penalty is supposed to apply to the conspiracy charge or to his not acting to prevent the actual deaths on 9/11. Maybe both.
It's the "deaths on 9/11" angle, since the conspiracy did not result in any deaths. Can't execute him without someone actually dying as a result of his actions. The only exception I can think of allowing for the death penalty without a murder occurring is some Southern state has a (unconstitutional) law allowing for the execution of repeat child rapists.

[John Many Jars]

It's the "death on 9/11" angle, since the conspiracy did not result in any deaths. Currently, I'm not aware of any laws that allow for the death penalty without someone actually dying as a result of the defendant's actions. The only exception I can think of is I think some Southern state has a (probably unconstitutional) law that allows for the execution of repeat child rapists.

Dude, this is weird --- there's a sentence when I hit "quote" that isn't there when I view your message normally. (Seriously; I'm not making any kind of "fixed" forum joke.)

Apparently when they say WMDs re: ZM's prosecution, they're referring to the hijacked jets, not purpose-built WMDs like nukes. That's why the jury asked for a definition of WMDs before they ruled; they were told that the jets met the definition. So the conspiracy in question is just the planning of the 9/11 attacks, not dirty bomb plans or anything like that.

[edit]I absolutely agree that laws like the one you describe are probably unconstitutional -- habeas corpus, after all. And now your sentence is showing up.

[Glenn]

I edit a lot sometimes. Please don't taunt OCD boy.

Re: 2nd paragraph, the WMD was the plane that retard was planning on personally flying into the White House, or the moon, or whatever. But since he never did it, he never killed anyone, and was ineligible for the death penalty on that count. The dath penalty was just tied to that ridiculous "we totally could have stopped 9/11 if we hadn't been stonewalled by the big guy with Down's syndrome" argument.

[Glenn]

Oh, shit: Treason. You can be executed for treason without causing anyone's death. Two exceptions.

[Jason McCullough]

Kind of like executing Hitler's secretary.

[Natus]

Isn't there already a Tom Delay thread?

[Jasper]

Hah! That was my thought reading the title too. Tom DeLay's downfall is big enough for two threads though... unlike this little nobody would be terrorist.

But hey! Great to know Bush is on the job, stamping out terrorism so we can live in a safer world! Hallelujah! :-/

[Cleve Blakemore]

It's fascinating to listen to you blind mice tapping around the subject with your canes.

The guy was not on the planes for the express purpose of not being on the planes. The other guys were not on the planes, either - at least not the stolen identities that were offered as those guys' actual names on the televitz device.

The truth is, nobody knows the names of any of these men or their national origin. The only people left who believe they were connected to Al Quaida are the same people expecting to find WMDs in Iraq. Tom Clancy middle-aged remote pilots surfing world intelligence from the grand deck of CNN and Foxzed News. Which is equivalent to living in a shoebox with holes punched in the top for air.

You'd be funny if you weren't so gullible.

[Andrew Mayer]

The ignore list is a new feature since you were last here.