The Outfit - Game released

[Rorschach]

So the Outfit is out this week and I really liked playing the demo, but it seems to have some wide variation on the reviews. The demo pretty much sold me, but some of those reviews are troubling especially for people on the fence. For those of you who have it, how's it working out so far?

Obligatory gamerankings link:
http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/928324.asp

[Kalle]

Since when is a link to gamerankings mandatory?

[OrfBC]

Since when is a link to gamerankings mandatory?

Since now! Get with it!

I was disheartened by the Gamespot review (it got a 0 on the 7-9 scale), but I'm still going to Gamefly it. The demo really was a lot of fun. Even if the single player game is weak, it'll still be good multi.

http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/577875.asp

[Charles]

IGN also gave it less than 7? Holy shit. It must be horrible.

[Moore]

hehe, an IGN 7 means it killed the reviewer's entire family.

[Rorschach]

Since when is a link to gamerankings mandatory?

Obligatory meaning when you talk about more than one review at a time you should post a summary for easy reference.

[Ryan Markel]

Early conversations with people I know have picked it up and are enjoying it are precisely some of the things that the MS people were saying about it about a week ago: that most people won't get what it's all about and will be severely confused by its gameplay.

The graphics are, unfortunately, no better than the ones in the demo (which I thought were quite weak), but the core gameplay is the same. It's safe to assume that, if you enjoyed the demo, you will enjoy the full game.

[Charles]

Obligatory meaning when you talk about more than one review at a time you should post a summary for easy reference.

Are you familiar with which site you are posting on?

[Tom Chick]

Are you familiar with which site you are posting on?

Based on the join dates by your respective names, I'd say he's more familiar with it than you. :)

I think Rorschach's point is just that The Outfit is just one of those sad little mediocre games that sits smack dab in the middle of the 7-9 ratings range and therefore shouldn't be of interest to anyone who pays attention to those sorts of things.

The rest of us, however, think it's pretty cool.

-Tom

[Rorschach]

So much for being subtle... The point I was trying to make is that the big sites are scoring it in the 6's which is outside the normal 7-9 range and only fan mags like XBM are bringing it back into the 7-9 range. I don't think that it's that bad of a game based on the demo, and was wondering if the people on this board who actually have the game agreed.

Charles, I really have no idea why you think my explanation doesn't belong on this board. Please feel free to educate me here on in a PM.

[Rock8man]

I'm still mad at Gamespot for giving Tron 2.0 a bad review. Normally I pay more attention to a wide range of reviews, but when I read that it was just another derivative shooter with terrible weapons, etc. at Gamespot, I kind of ignored the game, especially since its demo was terrible, since they made you fight a terrible boss fight right away in the demo. Curse them! That game is awesome IMHO. When I finally got around to playing it and found it to be one of the most enjoyable shooters I've played, I went around and looked at all the reviews again, and Gamespot is one of the only places that hated it.

The crux of the Outfit review at Gamespot says that the Single Player game is not very good, but the multiplayer is actually good. They give one throwaway line about Co-op, saying it makes the single player campaign better. In what way? Did they even play through the game Co-Op? Or did they just play the Single Player and a few multiplayer games, and then put up the review?

Me and my friends really loved the demo. The more you play it, the more strategic depth you discover, and its one of the most fun action/strategy hybrid games we've played in a long time. So my Xbox 360 owning friends bought the game. One of them is in Illinois, and one is right here in Seattle.

Unfortunately, our first impressions of the game are very negative. The game is NOT like Halo 2. It doesn't make it easy to hook up with your friends over X-box Live. When we hosted a game here, our Illinois friend couldn't see it on the list of games over there. When he hosted over there, we couldn't see it over here. When we tried joining the same games, if he joined a game over there, even though there were still open slots in the game, we weren't allowed to join the same game. So then he quit out, and then we could join the same game, but not at the same time. WHAT THE HELL!?!?

Halo 2 has such an awesome interface. You get together with your friends across the country, you issue game invites and such, and you form a party, and then you join the appropriate game type. It's simple, elegant, and very hassle-free. The Outfit gets it all wrong with its stupid PC-style game browser and such. At least on the PC you can type in your friend's IP when he's hosting a game.

Oh well. Maybe we were just experiencing a bad internet day. I don't know. Maybe the connections in Illinois were whacked that day.

On the bright side: We did join a few games with two players playing split screen on one X-box 360, and those games worked fine. The non-demo maps look really different and interesting so far, though I have to say the demo map seems to be the best one so far.

Another negative note: The leaderboard seems to be based on player score, not on win/loss ratio like in Halo 2. So people can get some score even in games they lose, and it just accumulates. So its like experience in an MMRPG. The more you play, the higher up the ranking you go. So our friend in Illinois who has only lost one game so far climbed up to Number 5 in the rankings yesterday, and when he got home from work today, he was already down in the 30s. It's just a bizarre system that rewards more frequent players rather than people who are better.

But in the end, the leaderboard might be irrelevant. In Halo 2, the ranking system is brilliant because it ensures that with the exception of cheaters, you mostly play against equivalently skilled players, which makes the game a lot more fun for us than games on the PC like Quake, UT, BF, etc. because on the PC its a crap shoot if you join some random game. People are usually way better or way worse than you. The whole point of ranked games in Halo 2 is to make sure people with equivalent skill play each other. However, the Outfit seems so far to be matching people completely randomly from the leaderboard.

If you're not going to use the leaderboard and ranking system for matching skill levels, then what the heck is the point of ranked matches?

I'll report back here as we get farther into the game.

[Ryan Markel]

Halo 2 has such an awesome interface. You get together with your friends across the country, you issue game invites and such, and you form a party, and then you join the appropriate game type. It's simple, elegant, and very hassle-free.

MS just should have made it part of the licensing agreement that every game had to support everything that Halo 2 did with Xbox Live. It's been how long now (?), and we still haven't seen anything (even 360-wise) that even comes CLOSE.

And where's our damn clan support?

[Wholly Schmidt]

MS just should have made it part of the licensing agreement that every game had to support everything that Halo 2 did with Xbox Live. It's been how long now (?), and we still haven't seen anything (even 360-wise) that even comes CLOSE.

And where's our damn clan support?
Throw in some of PGR2's seam-less-ness for good measure, and yeah, that should be the ideal that all online games strive for.

[ElGuapo]

By "really like the Demo", Rorschach means "Like Whirblewinding ElGuapo's whole squad.

Still undecided. I really like the demo, but I'm not sure there is $60 worth of game there. Is it much more than I can get for free right now?

If there were co-op skirmishes against the computer like in GRAW, it'd be worth it. But if it's only a short single player campaign . . . ehhhhh.

[Theodore Rex DX]

Obligatory does not mean the same thing as mandatory!

[Jason Cross]

I'm still mad at Gamespot for giving Tron 2.0 a bad review. Normally I pay more attention to a wide range of reviews, but when I read that it was just another derivative shooter with terrible weapons, etc. at Gamespot, I kind of ignored the game, especially since its demo was terrible, since they made you fight a terrible boss fight right away in the demo. Curse them! That game is awesome IMHO.


They did? And they said it was derivitave? Jesus! Tron 2.0 rocks, and it's anything but derivitave. Even if you ignore the art direction (which kicks ass and is spot on for modernizing Tron), the disc weapon and upgrades and stuff make it more than just another shooter.

Yeah, it had a few annoying bits, but it's one of the few shooters I basically played straight through, spending all my free time on that one game until I finished it.


Halo 2 has such an awesome interface. You get together with your friends across the country, you issue game invites and such, and you form a party, and then you join the appropriate game type. It's simple, elegant, and very hassle-free.

Agreed! What's more, it only lets you join game types, not specific servers and maps. The game itself figures out who should host which people, picks the map and exact gametype (CTF, team deatchmatch, etc) behind your back. Sounds annoying at first, until you realize that it's way more fun when you don't play the same game on de_dust all the time, but also don't have the fifty-jillion-different-server-rules situation of UT2004. You get a small number of maps and gametypes in the rotation, enough to keep it fresh without getting stale. It also means you can't pick your opponents and game the ranking system so easily.

Naturally, they threw everyone a bone and let you do whatever custom maps and gametypes you like in unranked pickup games, but you gotta invite all the participants.

Halo 2's matchmaking and game-hosting setup thing is the best of its type. I'm not sure it would work for every kind of online game, but for the competitive online shooter, it should so be copied by everyone. Please.

[Rock8man]

Yeah, it had a few annoying bits, but it's one of the few shooters I basically played straight through, spending all my free time on that one game until I finished it.

I agree 100% Jason. When I finally got the game from the bargain bins, I was really surprised at how much I loved it. From the unique art direction to the "crisp" feel of the weapons, to the fun upgrading of the character, to the awesome look and feel of the world that just made me keep playing and playing until I finished the game.

Here was one of the paragraphs from the Gamespot review though, that turned me off of the game when it first came out:


Ultimately, the weapons and enemies are basically the same things shooter fans have seen many times over. It doesn't help that the story and characters are forgettable and the dialogue is awkwardly juvenile, with weak humor that mostly falls flat. This is very surprising, given the sharp writing Monolith is known for. Once you look past the unique visual style of the game, you quickly see that many of the levels are bland and linear. You run across a bridge to get to point X to push a button. You hunt for some keys, push some more buttons, meet a forgettable female ally, only minimally interact with the world, and only, occasionally, talk with characters at certain selected junctures. ("Talking" here means listening to some preset dialogue.)

Just like the Outfit review, I guess everything mention there is technically true, but the game sort of transcends that, and I never felt like I was bored or uninterested in what was going on.

Similarly, in the Outfit's multiplayer game, Gamespot review has several accurate points about there being some snags in the collision detection and the graphics don't look too "Next Gen", and the vehicles are hard to get used to. But the title innovates in providing a new multiplayer experience that's more than the sum of its parts.

Now, if only they had copied Halo's ranking and lobby system. That's my main complaint with the game.

P.S. One interesting note: During the game you can "wiretap" your opponent if you have the radio tower. We were all initially confused as to what on earth that was supposed to do. Well, we discovered that it allows the person who wiretaps to listen in on the opposing team's voice chat with each other. So if they plan stuff, or decide to go capture the motor pool, for example, you can hear that and tell your partner what you heard. Of course, it really tickles me to no end that when you tell your partner what you just heard, your enemy could be wiretapping you and realize that they're being spied upon.

[Rorschach]

Obligatory does not mean the same thing as mandatory!
Thank you.

[RickH]

They did? And they said it was derivitave? Jesus! Tron 2.0 rocks, and it's anything but derivitave. Even if you ignore the art direction (which kicks ass and is spot on for modernizing Tron), the disc weapon and upgrades and stuff make it more than just another shooter.

Yeah, it had a few annoying bits, but it's one of the few shooters I basically played straight through, spending all my free time on that one game until I finished it.

Agreed as well. It's funny how there are "bad" games I've enjoyed and "great" games that have left me cold. Suppose there is no objective truth for entertainment products. My standard is whether I can't wait to get back home and play some more. And by that standard, TRON 2.0 was better than Half-Life, which I've started at least 4 times and never finished.

[Rorschach]

Picked the full game up this weekend and have played through mission 5 in single player and about 4 matches online.

The missions are linear for the most part and fully scripted. I don't think there's any such thing as a tactical AI in the game to play multiplayer skirmish against the computer. Lacking that, I'm having a blast with it. The areas and missions have variety, I'm not getting bored and will most likely play through the end.

Multiplayer is a blast, but I highly recommend using quick games if you're on your own. Much like Splinter Cell, if you go into custom games, you're going to be playing aginst people who know each other and they will most likely be bored and start the game with uneven teams against you.

[Pumpkinhead]

I am enjoying it quite a bit also. I can’t quite put my finger on it, but there is something about the game that makes me want to keep playing. My only complaint is the controls for vehicles which have turrets. They really should have included a button to center the turret on the hull. I have only played split screen multiplayer so far. But it is clear from that experience and the demo that multiplayer is where the game really shines.

[Tom Chick]

They really should have included a button to center the turret on the hull.

Left bumper, Pumpkinhead. I find that driving is a lot easier if you hold the left bumper down.

-Tom

[Pumpkinhead]

Left bumper, Pumpkinhead. I find that driving is a lot easier if you hold the left bumper down.

-Tom

Worked like a charm. Thanks.

[Tom Chick]

And by the way, that's not in the manual. I'm not sure where I saw it (GAF?), but if anyone knows any other undocumented tips, I'd love to hear them.

-Tom

[Rorschach]

I picked up that right stick can rotate the placement of items. I think that's covered in the walkthrough part of the first mission though.

[Luke M]

So Relic has just released their new WW2 console game, and they've got the Warhammer 40k license. I'd really like to see them create a Warhammer 40k console action strategy game using The Outfit's engine. The Warhammer 40k universe already accommodates many of The Outfit's features. Space marine dropships instead of WW2 fighters for "destruction on demand". Squads of infantry. Vehicles. Destructible buildings and maybe even deformable terrain. Put a 40k coat of paint on The Outfit and add map control points and you could be halfway there. It'd need to be a visceral and dynamic experience, a grand synthesis of Mercenaries, Sacrifice, and Dawn of War. Just imagine playing through the Dawn of War intro cinematic as one of the ground troops. How cool would that be?

[JM]

Dont tease me like that - you know they'll never make it.

[Dean]

What would've made the game better:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/deanodonnell/spongeoutfit.jpg

More Spongebob!

[Erik]

From the IGN review:


Relic's first endeavor in the next-generation of consoles is like a bag of mixed candy: you might love the M&Ms, but you'll hate the candy corns.

I'm glad somebody finally took the time to fully explain that metaphor.

[Rorschach]

I like candy corn, does that mean I like the Outfit?

[Pumpkinhead]

I picked up that right stick can rotate the placement of items. I think that's covered in the walkthrough part of the first mission though.

I know it's in the manual, but I just realized that you can melee by pressing [A] when close to an enemy soldier. I discovered it by accident while fighting off Germans in order to hold the town in mission 4. I think I like this game because it is the first 360 game I've played that is unique to the 360. I enjoy CoD 2 and Ghost Recon but they are really just souped up versions of games I've played before. NBA 2K6 and Fight Night are the same way. This game gets better the more I play. And I agree that a Warhammer 40K themed version would kick ass.

[Rorschach]

Finished the single player campaign last night now it's time to really get into the multiplayer.

I've noticed that people often focus on the objective points. If you put down your emplacements away from the objective but still covering the approach your opponents have to either go after the emplacements first allowing you to respond or continue taking fire while taking the objective.

Another tip I think was already mentioned maybe in another thread is that pretty much any vehicle on the map is driveable. They can't take a lot of damage but if you're out of FUs that truck can get you to the objective quickly.

Finally vehicles can be manned by more than one player. If you jump into the drivers seat your buddy can jump into the weapon station and fire independently of your driving.

[Rorschach]

Anyone up for a game this weekend? Best times for me will be after 11am pst on Sunday, but I can probably find time other times on the weekend.

[BobJustBob]

Possibly. I picked up the game tonight along with Dynasty Warriors 5: Empires, but that game kicks so much ass that I haven't touched The Outfit yet.

[Dave Long]

I'm in depending on the time. Tom and I along with one of his friends played a game last night before switching to GRAW. It was a blast and very back and forth for awhile before my anonymous partner and I got overrun. I made Chick eat flamethrower plenty before that, though. :)

I know I spammed just about everyone on my Friends List, probably many of whom don't own the game. heh

[OrfBC]

Really? What's it got over previous Dynasty Warriors? I tried one on the first Xbox and it seemed just...bland. Hack through lots of people, hack up the captain, move onto the next troop.

[Dave Long]

Really? What's it got over previous Dynasty Warriors?

It's only $40?

[Pumpkinhead]

I'm in depending on the time. Tom and I along with one of his friends played a game last night before switching to GRAW. It was a blast and very back and forth for awhile before my anonymous partner and I got overrun. I made Chick eat flamethrower plenty before that, though. :)

I know I spammed just about everyone on my Friends List, probably many of whom don't own the game. heh


I am interested in playing some online Outfit. I also just finished the single player campaign. I haven't played online very much, but the little I have played with randoms has been a blast.

XBL tag: denoginizer

[Rorschach]

Well I beat Maradine in a best 2 out of 3 tonight, but is was hard fought each time. There's some interesting maps and setups in the multiplayer. I think it will be a while before I figure out all the little quirks and defensive positions on all the maps.

[ElGuapo]

My brother and I played a ton of this over the weekend (I finally got the full game). We played both Conquest and also Co-op, which is way, way, way more fun than I thought I'd be.

The thing they try to push with this game in the advertising is the non-stop mindless action and cutesy over the top personalities. But there is actually a great deal of strategy involved. We had a real slugmatch/stalemate on the map by the dock with the big seawall.

This may be one of the most fun splitscreen games I've played in a while. I'm up for a match anytime.

[ElGuapo]

Seems there is no love for this game. Oh well.

I played a bunch of matches against random people last night. Found out doing the "quick match" and picking your parameters leads to much, much faster match setups. Random match lobbies seem to get pretty chaotic with people coming and going.

Unfortunately, I won all my matches last night. Now I need a Qt3er to teach me some humility (or, even better, take on the comp together in my hard Campaign).

I like how paper rock scissors the matches are, with the chaos of battle thrown in. AT kills Armor, Armor kills infantry (and fixed guns if they can get behind them), and Atillery kills fixed positions.

Finally, a game where I can call in an artiliery strike and wait for the explosions to stop, then lead my squad in on foot into the trenches. . . CHARGE! Did I mention the co-op campaign is hella fun?

[instant0]

COOP Campaign?
Maybe I should check out this game.

Course, that means digging up my 360, I read somewhere about "three green circles", meaning the 360 is kaput, is that in any way related to the Feb/March XBL update, or does it just 'happen'?

[Tom Chick]

The co-op campaign -- and by extension, the single player campaign -- isn't worth buying the game for. And there's no skirmish mode. So unless you're playing online or splitscreen, there's really no need to get The Outfit.

I've seen ElGuapo and Rorschach playing online and been tempted to join, but, well, you know. Oblivion and all. :(

-Tom

[Jim Preston]

The co-op campaign -- and by extension, the single player campaign -- isn't worth buying the game for. And there's no skirmish mode. So unless you're playing online or splitscreen, there's really no need to get The Outfit.

I've seen ElGuapo and Rorschach playing online and been tempted to join, but, well, you know. Oblivion and all. :(

-Tom
Tom, what's your Gamertag? I'm Galaron. I'm playing Oblivion myself now and want to be able to open the Guide at any moment and snort in disbelief at your pitiful gamerscore and leave annoying voicemails about Killer 7.

[Dave Long]

ROFL!

We need to get a four-player game of The Outfit going with Tom, Guapo, Rorschach and myself. Now that I know you two guy are playing in addition to Tom, I know who to spam. We discovered the last time that apparently my Friends List is longer than Chick's. :D

[OrfBC]

I have it out from Gamefly and would be up for a game sometime. I tried the single player briefly, but Oblivion so I haven't played it too much.

[Tom Chick]

I'm Galaron.

I read that and I can't help but think, "I have grey eyes."

Good lord, I can't keep you people and your silly gamertags straight! I get little messages about Captain Donut, YakeeFan8675309, and DenseBread, but I have no idea who they are. So apologies if I've ever dropped any of you guys from my friends list, but sometimes I'm going through with no idea of who's who.

Which, BTW, is why my gamertag is 'tomchick'. :)

-Tom

[Tom McNamara]

hehe, an IGN 7 means it killed the reviewer's entire family.

It molested my dog and took a crap in my Xbox :(

But then it jumped out the window and landed square on a scenester, so I forgave it.

Outfit, let's be friends. I know it was just the drink talking.

[GregB]

I get little messages about Captain Donut, YakeeFan8675309, and DenseBread, but I have no idea who they are.

That's "Capt Donut," Mr. Chick. And don't you forget it. Sheesh!

[ElGuapo]

Ok, let's get this thing going. Tonight good for anyone? I'll try to be on in the eveningish. Specific, I know. I'll turn my notifications back on tonight (they were off for Oblivion immersiveness).

I love the little Duke Nukem-esqe blurbs. So far my favorite is the German general's when he gets injured:

"My favorite monocle!"

[OrfBC]

Yep, I'll play tonight. Then I'm sending it back for Far Cry: Instincts: Predator: Too Many Subtitles

[ElGuapo]

For anyone who's interested, Rorschach (I just finished The Watchmen by the way, so I have new appreciation for your name) and I tried Co-op yesterday. It was so laggy it was unplayable. We tried 3 times and either one of us dropped, or the other did, or it was super-lag.

So we played a few games of vs., which was fun. But I wanted co-op!

[Rorschach]

I was having a bad network day, we'l try again another time.

[Rorschach]

3 multiplayer maps out for $4.00 (500 points) anyone interested in getting this and trying out some games?

[Tom Chick]

Count me in!

...oh, wait, I don't have a working Xbox 360.

-Tom

[Marcus]

I guess I'll bump this up...

Go gamer has the game for 17.90 and thats my impulse buy target right there but I havent pulled the trigger just yet.

What do you think? Worth 17.90?

[GrinR]

I guess I'll bump this up...

Go gamer has the game for 17.90 and thats my impulse buy target right there but I havent pulled the trigger just yet.

What do you think? Worth 17.90?

GOD DAMN IT. I just bought this for a friend at EBX (stupidstupidstupid) for $35 USED.

BAH!

Yes, it's absolutely worth the 17.90, unless you HATE HATE HATE the demo.

[Moore]

lets try and get some outfit going this weekend, I havent gotten much time with the multi

[Rorschach]

I'm in. I'm pretty sure you can get the map pack for free now.