Buffy is Done [Archive] - Quarter To Three Forums

Case

03-02-2003, 06:40 PM

Sarah Michelle Gellar's made it official -- she's not returning for another season. So Buffy the Vampire Slayer, as we know it, will be wrapping up this season.

Season Six was pretty weak, but this season has been fairly decent, though more on a par with four and five, rather than the groundbreaking first three seasons. Still, it had a good run, and was immensely good fun for the most part.

As ever,

Loyd Case

Anonymous

03-02-2003, 09:08 PM

She's starting to look like an old hag anyway. Everyone wants to bone her little sister on the show now instead. I almost vomited the last time I looked at a picture of Sarah Michelle Ghastly. Ugly whore.

Brad Grenz

03-03-2003, 03:03 AM

Yeah, last year only had a couple really good episodes. This year started out pretty strong, then started dragging ass, but last week's episode was great again. It's about time they put the series to bed, though. I looks like we might get another year out of Angel, though, which has been really solid. I don't think they're going to get another spin-off out of the franchise, besides maybe a run of Ripper from the BBC.

Hey, but we'll always have DVDs. I heard they may even release a DVD of the produced episodes of the Buffy Animated Series that never found a home. But that's just a rumor.

Murph

03-03-2003, 03:59 AM

I've really been enjoying this season, and I'm sad to see it go. I do wonder how many times she can save the world and still keep it fun and new, but they haven't failed yet.

And I still think she's hot.

JosieNutter

03-11-2003, 09:15 PM

Yeah, I think she's still a cutie, too. If she looks like an ugly whore, I'd hate to know what I look like. Heh.

We kind of got out of the loop during season 4. Now, I'm just waiting for them all to come out on Australian DVD to pick them up for cheap. We've only got seasons 1 and 2 so far.

Murph

03-12-2003, 03:44 AM

We get Season 4 in July. I started watching it on and off during season 5, and I've seen most of 6, and of course this season we've watched it religously. Looking forward to getting 4 on DVD, as that'll be about the only season I haven't seen much of.

Anonymous

03-12-2003, 09:57 AM

The only sad thing about Buffy getting killed is that I couldn't be there to do it personally. DIE! DIE! DIE!

Brad Grenz

03-12-2003, 11:14 PM

Season 4 was actually one of the weakest for the show. One episode was spectacularly bad. But there was some good as well. The show just started to suffer from character creep (like feature creep, only with characters). Seson 5 got better, then 6 wasn't so good, 7's been better again. But seasons 2 and 3 were definitely the golden age of the show.

The only sad thing about Buffy getting killed is that I couldn't be there to do it personally. DIE! DIE! DIE!

She's died like four times. I don't think you're even trying.

Murph

03-13-2003, 04:51 AM

gnmarsh

03-13-2003, 05:12 AM

musical was great if your a fan of the show. FX reshowing the series from the begining has been really nice, since I din't have either of the networks the show has been on. We have started getting upn recently, but the show is preempted for hockey most of the time.

Case

03-13-2003, 06:53 AM

Two, I thought. I only remember her dying twice.

I've heard that 4 wasn't that great, but just the same -- lots of story gaps need filling in. That's where Spike got his chip, right? Who else enters the story in season 4? Was that when Dawn showed up, or was that 5? Then, let's see -- Riley, Tara...Oh, well. I'm still lookig forward to it.

I think this season has been more than just "better." I think it's been pretty great.

And season 6 was not so good? But...But...The musical??

I think there were some very good single episodes in season 4. However, the overall story arc, while attractive at first, seemed to have "cheapened" the whole demon/vampire mythos that the show created. After all, if there are hundreds of demons running around, and a secret government organization to combat them, how could the citizens of Sunnydale NOT notice?

One of the best single episodes in the series, Hush, is in season 4.

I do think season 6 was the weakest. It became way too much of a pure soap opera.

The Buffy crew, prodded by Joss Whedon, likes to stretch in one or two episodes a season. So you have Hush, in season 5, The Body, and the musical in Season 6.

As ever,

Loyd Case

Brad Grenz

03-13-2003, 10:00 PM

The episodes Joss writes and directs himself are easily some of the very best. Like Hush, the Body, Once More With Feeling, etc. My personal favorite episode was actually the one from season 5 about Spike's past called Fool For Love, but it wasn't written or directed by Joss.

Two, I thought. I only remember her dying twice.

She dies at the end of season 1 and at the end of season 5. She also dies in an alternate universe during an episode in season 3 which I'm counting. Oh, and she gets turned into a vampire during an episode in the first season as well, as part of a nightmares come true thing. So there. But lots of people don't count those last two as real deaths, it's still Buffy getting killed 4 times though.

Sharpe

03-13-2003, 10:38 PM

This is getting me nostalgic for seasons two and three :0. Without further ado, my list of top 3 episodes:

#3 Becoming - a startlingly powerful end to the classic 2nd season. Although most fans love the Angel/Buff stuff, I truly loved the great Spike scenes, especially his scene with Buffy's mom and his speech about things in the world worth saving. It was the ret-con changing of Spike into a totally different character that ruined seasons 5+ for me and why I havent watched six or seven.

#2 Anne - an underappreciated episode. After the "death" of Angel at the end of season 2, being the Slayer is too much for Buffy. She hitchhikes to the big city and becomes a waitress using the name Anne, until she inevitabitly gets dragged into Hell (literally) and faces a crew of evil slave-running demons who keep their slaves cowed by forcing them to admit "I am No One". When they try to subdue Buffy she re-asserts her Slayer'ness and and whips the snot out of the whole joint. Classic stuff in the Spider "with great power comes great responsibility" way. (Side note when Buffy deviated from this theme after season 3, the show began to suck).

#1 Graduation Day - best girl vs girl fight Evar! The long awaited, much built up, knock down drag out, fist, foot, hair, knife, crowbar and handcuff fight between Buffy and Faith is one of the best choreographed fight scenes ever. Plus the Mayor. Plus blowing up the high school on Graduation Day. How can you go wrong.

Dan

Brad Grenz

03-14-2003, 12:29 AM

#1 Graduation Day - best girl vs girl fight Evar! The long awaited, much built up, knock down drag out, fist, foot, hair, knife, crowbar and handcuff fight between Buffy and Faith is one of the best choreographed fight scenes ever. Plus the Mayor. Plus blowing up the high school on Graduation Day. How can you go wrong.

Back when stunts were stunts on Buffy. They fired the stunt coordinator from season 2 through 4 at the end of that season. I still think it was a huge mistake. The fights haven't been very good ever since and are always better on Angel these days. The old stunt guy was named Jeff Pruitt, he was a cool guy, and really good at his job.

Ben Sones

03-14-2003, 10:37 AM

I can't remember the name of the episode, but it's the one narrated by David Boreanaz after Angel loses his soul--the one where he kills Jenny Calendar. Still one of my all-time favorite episodes.

I loved Hush too, conceptually, though it bothers me how much the demon guys feel like ripoffs of the floating evil doctors in Dark City (which came out just prior to that episode, IIRC). Still, a great episode--it was impressive that they were able to pull off ~45 minutes of show with no spoken dialog.

Season 6 was a bit too depressing, overall, for my tastes. It had one hell of a finale, though.

I've been liking the new (and last :() season quite a bit.

Case

03-14-2003, 11:08 AM

I just got done watching the Season 2 DVD with my 12-year old daughter and a friend of hers. As an overall story arc, it's easily the best of the series, replete with both a heroic and tragic ending.

Is it just me, or has Sarah Michelle Gellar's acting range actually narrowed over the years? Or maybe it's just that the writers don't allow her to have the range that she demonstrated in the second season.

But my all time favorite episode is still "The Wish" from season 3.

As ever,

Loyd Case

Toddy

03-14-2003, 09:14 PM

I completely agree with that assessment of season two. It and season three were fantastic. But as much of a fanboy as I was at one time, I'm very glad that the show is ending. Last season was horrible. This year's is much stronger overall, though there are some real problems. Mutant Enemy doesn't seem to be trying anymore. We've been getting the same story arc stretched over numerous episodes. We see Buffy's leadership angst, Spike's struggle to become a bad boy, the mysterious Principal Wood, and Willow's cartoony battle with her dark side on top of plots that don't go anywhere. And the First Evil is lame. Having it always change shape doesn't give you anything to latch onto as a villain, and the threatened end of the world seems goofy when all the thing's done is summon a single big vampire and talk a teenage girl into suicide.

Angel, on the other hand, has been great. It seems like every episode ends with some sort of cliffhanger that advances the plot and doesn't seem cheap and manipulative. I didn't like the dream episode of a few weeks back, but overall the show's been much better than Buffy for at least two seasons now, maybe three. The fighting sequences are a lot better, too. The fight between Angel and Faith this past week was the best I've seen on either show.

Brad Grenz

03-15-2003, 01:38 AM

I can't remember the name of the episode, but it's the one narrated by David Boreanaz after Angel loses his soul--the one where he kills Jenny Calendar. Still one of my all-time favorite episodes.

Passions. Awsome episode, written by one Ty King, who's a really cool guy.

But my all time favorite episode is still "The Wish" from season 3.

Yup, another absolute classic.

Murph

03-16-2003, 06:27 PM

I'm just getting into Angel, starting with Season One on DVD. So far, I really like what I've seen, though (at least, based on the first few episodes) it doesn't have the personality of Buffy. So many great "side" characters -- Spike, Oz (back when he was on it) Willow, Anya, and Xander -- heck, even Andrew, these days -- really add a lot of character. But I'm really enjoying Angel.

For some reason, I feel like you guys are being too hard on Season Six of Buffy. I didn't see the whole thing, but the episodes I saw were great episodes -- approximately half. But, then, when it comes to that show, I'm pretty easy to please, I guess.

I miss Oz.

Ben Sones

03-16-2003, 07:35 PM

Angel gets more characters (and some of the best ones, like Lorne) in the second season. It's a great show--as much as I like Buffy, I'd have to say that I currently like Angel better.

balut

03-16-2003, 07:42 PM

Tho Connor is still a whiny punk.

BraveStar

03-16-2003, 07:55 PM

I quit watching after about 5 episodes in Season 6, but decided to give it another shot this year, and I think it rocks. I have been watching since the beginning, and I love it and Angel. Isn't it cool that Willow is going to be on Angel this next week? Do I smell another crossover?? I agree that in some ways, Angel is a better show. This season in particular has kicked ass!

Toddy

03-16-2003, 10:52 PM

Angel changes completely in the second season. ME started off with Law & Order: Vampire Crimes Division, but slowly began to pick up more continuity. Now it's got a great supporting cast and you need to know a lot about the show or you can't really appreciate or even understand the plots. This isn't a show you can drop in and out on, especially this year.

Brad Grenz

03-17-2003, 01:52 AM

Yeah, Angel takes a little while to get it's feet, but gets really good around the time in the first season when, well, I won't spoil it for Murph. They really turn things on starting with the 2nd season, though.

I miss Oz as well, it's too bad Seth Green left the show. I keep hoping maybe someday they'll build a spin-off, road show around that character...

Murph, I can see why your impression might be mostly positive of season 6 having not seen all of it. In general an episode of Buffy by it self is never too bad, but the problem that year was week after week of the same, slow moving missery. It just gets to be too much at some point.

Skies

04-09-2003, 04:12 PM

Have to agree that Buffy does get a bit too angst ridden, but one does have to admit it has been a great ride for a TV program one thought would last one season.

And Angel is getting better every episode, especally this season.

Long Live Joss Whedon!

BraveStar

04-09-2003, 04:33 PM

Personally, I enjoyed the show he came out with, what was it called, the sci-fi/western on Fox. I don't think they gave it enough time to get on its feet, imho.

FlamingSheep

04-09-2003, 04:39 PM

Personally, I enjoyed the show he came out with, what was it called, the sci-fi/western on Fox. I don't think they gave it enough time to get on its feet, imho.

Firefly? Yes, I also enjoyed it. But it was like a shameful secret I don't admit to people in real-life.

It was the similarities to all the space-age cowboy anime series' that came out in '98 (Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, and to a lesser extent the hideous Outlaw Star) that got me hooked.

BraveStar

04-09-2003, 04:46 PM

Firefly, yes, thank you! I never saw any of those shows, but I did enjoy Firefly :). Soooo........ anyone watched the new WB show, Black Sash yet? Stars Russel Wong, kind of a soap opera with martial arts, has me interested anyway so far.

Anonymous

04-09-2003, 07:40 PM

I'd only watch it if it starred Roger Wong, and his beautiful Turkish international school classmates involved in espionage and intrigue.

Skies

04-23-2003, 04:31 PM

Oh my! Did anyone see last weeks Buffy. Buffy's army got their butts completetly kicked by the evil preacher Caleb. Poor Xander!

Ben Sones

04-23-2003, 04:43 PM

Yeah, good episode. Buffy and Angel seem to be turning into a Firefly cast reunion--and they all get evil roles.

Cool. :)

Skies

04-23-2003, 04:57 PM

Actually wasn't the woman plays Jasmine also in Xena and Cleopatra 2525?

Can't wait to see what's in store on Angel tonight!

Murph

04-23-2003, 07:46 PM

Case

04-23-2003, 08:01 PM

(Possible spoiler, if anyone cares and hasn't seen the newest episode of Buffy.)

Poor Xander indeed! Though, it's amazing that, in seven seasons, he's just now getting some incurable injury.

So...Patch, or glass eye? (Or magic?)

The All-Seeing Eye. Then he'll appear as a guest in the third Tomb Raider Movie.

:lol:

Loyd Case

Mike Cathcart

04-23-2003, 08:22 PM

I vote for patch. Then he can make pirate jokes, and who doesn't love a good pirate joke?

balut

04-23-2003, 08:33 PM

I vote for patch. Then he can make pirate jokes, and who doesn't love a good pirate joke?

Ninjas.

Remember, the purpose of the ninja is to flip out and kill people. But, because ninjas are mammals, they can be mean or totally awesome.

Brad Grenz

04-24-2003, 02:06 AM

I'm voting for the Xander eye-patch too. Total bummer for him, he's a good man.

dannimal

04-24-2003, 11:20 AM

Yes, Gina Torres (Jasmine) was on Xena (once) and a semi-regular on Hercules after that (several season 5 episodes as Nebula, who I believe Iolus loved) before moving to the dismal Cleopatra 2525 and then Firefly.

Skies

04-30-2003, 11:27 PM

And Xander went for the eye-patch! (and a few pirate jokes)

Robert Sharp

05-13-2003, 06:14 PM

Mike Cathcart

05-13-2003, 07:13 PM

And Angel's entrance was kind of lame. Still, I didn't realize he was that strong. Of course, I don't watch Angel, since it seems kind of silly to me.

In Angel's season finale he was given some kind of thing that's supposed to play a big role in the final showdown. Maybe that made him stronger? Or maybe he's just the man. Maybe we'll never know. Anyway, season one of Angel is out on DVD, and worth checking out if you're sick of the somewhat lame dramatics that have taken over Buffy in the last few years. Like this:

I can't believe they pulled one last Spike and Buffy on...now off...I thought that was finally going to be resolved and then bam....it's annoying.

Yup.

Brad Grenz

05-14-2003, 12:38 AM

Well, tonight's episode had good and bad. I really hope Caleb is not dead because I thought that was a lame final fight with him. They should have played up his misogynism a bit more to get us (and Buffy) really mad at him in the end. And Angel's entrance was kind of lame. Still, I didn't realize he was that strong. Of course, I don't watch Angel, since it seems kind of silly to me.

Too bad, Angel's been better than Buffy the last two years.

From the preview it looks like Caleb pulls through. Buffy really ought to have made really sure he was dead instead of immediately making out with her ex.

I can't believe they pulled one last Spike and Buffy on...now off...I thought that was finally going to be resolved and then bam....it's annoying.

Yeah, she's been stringing him along in a way she really shouldn't.

Robert Sharp

05-14-2003, 02:35 PM

Maybe Angel just seems bad to me because I don't watch it. I flipped over to try to watch one time and Cordelia was scheming and having babies and Angel had a son who was already old and powerful and there was some green guy making jokes and looking jazzy or something. In fact, I watched a couple of episodes to see Faith come back, since I knew it would play a role in Buffy.

However, I agree that Buffy hasn't been great the last couple of seasons. I still think seasons 1-3 were some of the best television ever though.

As for Angel, perhaps these shows just don't look good when you jump in the middle of them. Try explaining something from either of them to someone who doesn't watch them and it sounds pretty stupid. You really have to understand the continuing narrative, I guess. I HAVE been thinking about getting the first season of Angel for this reason.

XPav

05-14-2003, 02:45 PM

Maybe Angel just seems bad to me because I don't watch it. I flipped over to try to watch one time and Cordelia was scheming and having babies...
With Angel's son, but Cordelia was actually possessed by an evil creature.

and Angel had a son who was already old and powerful
That's because he was stolen as a baby by an enemy of Angel and taken to a hell dimension. He had a rough life. But now he's been retconned away.

and there was some green guy making jokes and looking jazzy or something.That's Lorne. Iif you sing, he can read your mind.

Try explaining something from either of them to someone who doesn't watch them and it sounds pretty stupid.
Crap, you're right.

But hey, Angel has been renewed, Cordelia will be gone, and Spike will be on.

Mike Cathcart

05-14-2003, 04:18 PM

Guido Jones

05-18-2003, 05:24 AM

Cordy will be gone? :/

That sucks. Where'd you hear that from?

Ben Sones

05-18-2003, 06:38 AM

She's not listed as a cast member for the new season. Apparently she's taking time off to be with her kid (she really was pregnant), which is certainly understandable.

XPav

05-18-2003, 01:00 PM

But hey, Angel has been renewed, Cordelia will be gone, and Spike will be on.

Really? Wow. I usually avoid sites with news like that because they tend to give away spoilers. Too bad about Cordy, but yay Spike.

PS: If you tell me anything else that might give away something that happens on the series finale next week I will hunt you down and kill you ;)
Well, I was thinking about Angel, but you're right, having Spike on it does give away one plot element for Buffy on Tuesday -- that Spike will live.

I know nothing else. I swear! :P

Anders Hallin

05-18-2003, 01:20 PM

So yeah, I'm avoiding reading this thread until I've sludged through the final 8 episodes or so.
After that I will give everyone my oh so important opinion on how Buffy started being bad around.. somewhere, don't know where at this point, all the while making comparisons to that pedestal of television quality, Xena: Warrior Princess and of course the travesty that was that show's ending. I may (or may not) also in this thread, post pictures of me in a dress (http://hem.passagen.se/forsaken/andcen.html) and possibly juggle.

(link dead sunday evening, possibly)

wumpus

05-18-2003, 01:46 PM

I have no idea why this show was popular, but if you want to drop a grand on some random item in Buffy's room, get your eBay on:

http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/foxauction/

Sharpe

05-18-2003, 10:05 PM

In terms of when Buffy went bad, to me its when she graduated. The show lost the focus provided by high school along with the whole cheesy/irony/contrast of vampire slaying vs high school fu.

If you want a more a geeko-philosophical analysis, I always thought one of the main pillars of Buffy's success was that Buffy was Spiderman for girls in the 90s. The first three seasons were really caught up in the "with great power comes great responsibility" theme - Buffy paid a very steep price for being the slayer and coming to terms with that power and responsibility was a great theme for those 3 seasons.

After season 3, they drifted from that theme. After a season with no real theme (blech Riley/Initiative), they did try to develop themes in the later seasons: the price a hero's friends pay, the cost of family, great power corrupts, etc. But none of those really fit Buffy as well. Part of it is that SMG really did the female Peter Parker thing well, and part of it is that the seriousness of those other themes don't really fit with the campy nature of the show.

The Peter Parker theme, fits the camp perfectly and during seasons 1 to 3 I felt Whedon updated the classic Spiderman themes incredibly well, with a 90s spin. After that.... oh well :0

I didn't even bother watching the last 2 seasons and based on what I hear, I didnt miss much.

Oh well, the first 3 seasons are classic and will be enjoyed in reruns for a long time.

Dan

XPav

05-18-2003, 10:31 PM

I have no idea why this show was popular, but if you want to drop a grand on some random item in Buffy's room, get your eBay on:

http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/foxauction/
How's that for a fantasy. I wish I had a few thousand dollars so I could buy a Buffy outfit...
.
.
.
.
.
.
so a GIRL could wear it.

Jeez, what were you people thinking?

Brad Grenz

05-19-2003, 01:02 AM

In terms of when Buffy went bad, to me its when she graduated. The show lost the focus provided by high school along with the whole cheesy/irony/contrast of vampire slaying vs high school fu.

I'd agree that the end of the third season is where the show's decline began, but I wouldn't go so far as saying it was bad after that. There was still some amazing television to be had in the final four years, but it certainly peaked with the 2nd and 3rd seasons. The turning bad really starts with Buffy's most recent death. Again, there were still some great episodes in seasons 6 & 7, but those were exceptions in the surrounding mediocrity.

Quaro

05-19-2003, 08:48 AM

The problem with cutting it off at graduation is that you miss some of the very best episodes of any season -- 'Hush', 'The Body', and of course 'Once More with Feeling'.

Mike Cathcart

05-19-2003, 09:47 AM

The problem with cutting it off at graduation is that you miss some of the very best episodes of any season -- 'Hush', 'The Body', and of course 'Once More with Feeling'.

Can't remember the name of the episode, but the one where Jonathan casts a spell that makes him into Super-Jonathan (in season 4) is easily up there with those three (which are also great).

Dirt

05-19-2003, 11:11 AM

i've never watched buffy. but if it's anything like angel then i'm guessing i've missed alot. while i don't agree with most of the choices the writers have made on angel, i have to hand it to them, they are willing to take risks and that's what keeps me coming back for more.

Robert Sharp

05-19-2003, 02:04 PM

The problem with cutting it off at graduation is that you miss some of the very best episodes of any season -- 'Hush', 'The Body', and of course 'Once More with Feeling'.

I disagree with the Body. I hate that episode, though I guess it does do a good job of making you uncomfortable, which is the point. However, 'Hush' may be the finest episode of any television show ever. It is an INCREDIBLE show. The demons were terrifying and the strange movements they made, and the smile that looked like their lips were just cut off. But the silence...that took it beyond creepy. Pure genius. Unfortunately, it was probably the last good Buffy episode. I do like 'Once More with Feeling' though the songs get old toward the end.

I am in the first 3 seasons camp, personally. But you are right that there were still some good ones left. I actually liked the Fear Itself episode.

Jason Cross

05-20-2003, 11:15 PM

I saw two episodes of Black Sash, and it was so appalingly bad I think I had that thing happen where a little vomit creeps up and you have to choke it down.

Firefly ruled. Maybe the best dialog on television, and some truly interesting characters, once they start to delve into their backgrounds. Everyone is flawed in ways that mean something. I really dug the universe they created, and the way they made it so there was no sound in space at all and such.

Of course, some dumbass network exec figured a good time to run a show for the 18-35 age demo was Friday evening. SIGH...

I'll buy Firefly on DVD if they do it.

Brad Grenz

05-21-2003, 01:48 AM

The Firefly DVDs are a lock. They were recording commentary tracks and stuff last week, in fact. Will include every produced episode, including the 3 never aired, all in their intended 16x9 aspect ratio. Commentarys, interviews, featurettes and gag reels too. I don't know when they're due to hit, but they a definitely coming.

Toddy

05-21-2003, 01:57 AM

Mike Cathcart

05-21-2003, 06:00 AM

What a huge seller that will be, considering the dozens of people who watched the episodes when they ran on TV. Why would anyone publish Firefly on DVD? It seems like a sure-fire money loser. What's next? The complete first season of Mama's Family? BJ and the Bear?

Ay! Don't jinx it, Firefly is my favorite show since NewsRadio. If I read "Cancelled DVD release because Brett Todd said it wouldn't sell" on the website I'll...uh...type really mad emoticons at you!

:x