Top ten reasons to never buy a diamond

[Jason McCullough]

Link (http://www.fguide.org/Bulletin/conflictdiamonds.htm)

1. You've Been Psychologically Conditioned To Want a Diamond
2. Diamonds are Priced Well Above Their Value
3. Diamonds Have No Resale or Investment Value
4. Diamond Miners are Disproportionately Exposed to HIV/AIDS

It's always convenient when doing the right thing saves you money. :)

[Bill Dungsroman]

1. She wants one, Dummy.

[Robert Sharp]

So, if I buy a diamond, I am cauing someone to die of AIDs? Wow, talk about a serious guilt trip....

Who would want to resell a diamond? And yeah, they are overpriced, but that's the point. The woman gets to know how much you love her by how much you spend on her. I've also been psychologically conditioned to want money, and it's priced well above its value.

Interesting article though....

[Euri]

Tell her to wake up and grow some world ethic. The only diamonds I would buy are Canadian or Gemesis style created, otherwise you have no idea how much blood was spilled to get your little sparkly piece of carbon.

[Robert Sharp]

Tell her to wake up and grow some world ethic. The only diamonds I would buy are Canadian or Gemesis style created, otherwise you have no idea how much blood was spilled to get your little sparkly piece of carbon.

Again, part of proving you love her....

You guys will never be happily married.

[Euri]

Again, part of proving you love her....

You guys will never be happily married.

You're full of shit. I have been in a loving partnership for a decade now. The idea that proving your love has anything to do with spending money is so mind numbingly retarded that I wouldn't want to touch such a woman with a ten foot pole. If she wants a little gem soaked in so much blood, she can go right to hell.

[Euri]

I should include "and dig it out herself if she can get too it before some hobbled African slave-child does first"

[quatoria]

Again, part of proving you love her....

You guys will never be happily married.

Holy retarded overgeneralizations, batman. My wife told ME she didn't want a diamond before I could even tell her why I was morally opposed to the practices of the mining. I guess our marriage has been a miserable, loveless sham - thanks for letting me know that I don't love her, since I didn't buy her a diamond, and that I'm not happy, because I agree with Jason and Euri.

Jesus, does your wife really think that the amount of money you spend on her equals your love for her? If so, run, Robert, run - as far and as fast as you can. Holy shit, man. I ain't sayin' she's a gold digger, but...

[Steve Canyon]

Ain't saying she's a gold digger...

[Marcus]

But she aint messin wit no broke....

well you know the rest.

I bought a diamond for my ex wife... thats the last time I ever do that. Thats 3k I wont be seeing back.

[John Merva]

God we need the smilies back.

[Enidigm]

My favorite is the Life Diamond (aka the Death Gem). What your family needs to have is like a mantlepiece Death Gem collection; see, this one is old uncle Albert! That one over there, the dirty one, is my great grand father Lewis the Blacksmith, ect..

But what's wierd about precious gems is that manufactured gems are actually of better quality (fewer flaws), and cheaper to boot. They've gone quite far beyond the days of cubic zirconia. To me it makes more sense to make her a real kick ass giant monarchy-worthy necklaces et al with tons of synthetic gems and real gold, then to drop 20k for a ring with only one diamond.

[shift6]

I didn't see "because the bitch doesn't really mean the things that she says, and she's going to be leaving you pretty goddamn soon for the rich guy" on the list. Maybe that's just the bitter in me talking, though.

edit: yeah, definitely some bitterness; ignore me.

[quatoria]

I didn't see "because the bitch doesn't really mean the things that she says, and she's going to be leaving you pretty goddamn soon for the rich guy" on the list. Maybe that's just the bitter in me talking, though.

edit: yeah, definitely some bitterness; ignore me.

What I love is that you weren't initially sure if that was bitterness or not.

[Jack Black]

Well I can be as morally opposed to mining and the blood and profiteering it takes to do it, but if your wife wanted it and to her at least it meant more than a simple gemstone, or "my man loves me this much" trophy, most men don't get to decide.

However, I have found I don't get to decide why she would be hurt if I didn't buy her the biggest diamond I could afford to show her that I would commit my life to *DEBT* in order to keep her as mine. It would have been great if she was one of these cool, ultra-cheap, enlightened women. I must have not been picky enough, and she was a victim of the "Perfect Wedding" upbringing. Is that becoming more rare these days?

But I agree. Don't buy diamonds unless you have to, having an ace-in-the-hole excuse like HIV would be gold for any single guy out there testing out the waters.

[Wholly Schmidt]

I was half expecting to see Kanye referenced at the bottom of that guy's list.

[Bill Dungsroman]

You're full of shit. I have been in a loving partnership for a decade now. The idea that proving your love has anything to do with spending money is so mind numbingly retarded that I wouldn't want to touch such a woman with a ten foot pole. If she wants a little gem soaked in so much blood, she can go right to hell.

Wow. Don't forget to punch her in the face and throw her under a flaming gas tanker.

Put this way: she wants you to save up and buy her something nice, overpriced, and utterly without all but intrinsic merit outside of a minerologist's lecture hall. That's makes her feel loved, wanted, appreciated.

You, on the other hand, want all those things too. Except you want to feel all those things by sticking your dick in her mouth.

So, who's coming out ahead HAHAHAHA GETIT?

[Toddy]

Where's DrDel's input on this? We can't have a thread about diamonds without him telling us once more about how love means nothing unless you get your woman a $25,000 engagement ring.

[Euri]

Wow. Don't forget to punch her in the face and throw her under a flaming gas tanker.

Put this way: she wants you to save up and buy her something nice, overpriced, and utterly without all but intrinsic merit outside of a minerologist's lecture hall. That's makes her feel loved, wanted, appreciated.

You, on the other hand, want all those things too. Except you want to feel all those things by sticking your dick in her mouth.

So, who's coming out ahead HAHAHAHA GETIT?

Let me repeat this:

Any woman that feels this way is an idiot. I have absolutely no respect for anyone that assigns love a monetary value. I will also tell you this, I have never seen a healthy relationship based upon this principle, and I probably never will. Good, long lasting relationships are based upon love, mutual respect, friendship and attentiveness. Any bitch that requires an overpriced blood soaked murder gem for proof of love is a woman I want nothing to do with, either in a relationship or in any other capacity.

[Bill Dungsroman]

Any bitch that requires an overpriced blood soaked murder gem for proof of love is a woman I want nothing to do with, either in a relationship or in any other capacity.

But why would you deny her the glory that is you, Euri? You're so...fun, and all.

[Euri]

But why would you deny her the glory that is you, Euri? You're so...fun, and all.

Because we can't all equate our women with whores that only suck our dicks if we pay them with diamonds, Billy.

[Steve Canyon]

edit: yeah, definitely some bitterness; ignore me.

What I love is that you weren't initially sure if that was bitterness or not.

Feel the love.

[chet]

We went without diamonds, but tried to balance it out by giving a minor AIDS. Oh oops, wait a minute... never mind.

[Jasper]

My wife and I got $5 silver rings, which we keep in the junk jar somewhere. If I'd wasted cash on a rock she would have kicked my ass.

The diamond business is bloodthirsty; if you need to waste lots of money to prove your love, why not buy some other prettier mineral?

[Nellie]

Anyone that bases the depth of my affection purely on the cost of the diamond I am prepared to purchase isn't worth trying to keep. Nothing is worth the potential misery caused to so many people that the extraction of that lump of rock from the ground and subsequent shaping caused.

[jpinard]

I believe diamond control goes far beyond the ideas listed here. Because of the bloated price nearly everyone pays for their diamonds... how do you think millions of people would feel if the "invesments" they made, were suddenly cut by 50-90% by uncontrolled open competition... AND the undercutting competition by the manufactured gems? I think the ignorance of the general populace actually supports DeBeers in their control efforts... otherwise - why did xxx go and spend 2 months salary on the engagment ring like was "expected"? Of course, there are those that will always say, "It's better for those poor South African people to get AIDS, mine, be poisoned, etc, than to have no job at all".

[Anders Hallin]

Euri will never find a girl to be happily married to :D

[Ben Sones]

Who would want to resell a diamond? And yeah, they are overpriced, but that's the point. The woman gets to know how much you love her by how much you spend on her.

So if you bought her one of those rings that come inside a plastic egg that you get out of one of those crank machines, but you pay $500 for it, does that mean you love her that much more?

Seriously, diamonds are a ripoff. They are only expensive because the supply is tightly controlled by a powerful cartel that sits on enormous stockpiles of the stones to keep market demand high. Regular white diamonds are actually no more rare than any of the semi-precious stones, like garnets. I'm not sure why paying $1000 for something that should cost $50 is particularly romantic... maybe it sends the message "I'm so in love with you, it's affected my judgement!"

My wife likes the look of diamonds, but has asked me to get her synthetics instead of real ones. They have synthetics now that even gemologists can't distinguish from the real thing. That way, you can have your pretty rock, and you don't have to give any money to the mob (which is essentially what De Beers is).

[Jamie Madigan]

Because we can't all equate our women with whores that only suck our dicks if we pay them with diamonds, Billy.
Not with THAT attitude, mister.

Also, this is the ring to get her if she equates love with diamonds:

http://www.boingboing.net/__product_images2_948_big.jpg

[jpinard]

"I'm so in love with you, it's affected my judgement!"

I think you got it!

[mono]

Yeah, I'm with Quatoria. My wife explicitly didn't want a diamond and went with synthetics, and a very modest synthetic jewel at that. The entire industry is a monumental scam.

[ElGuapo]

See, I'm in the opposite boat as many. I am very against diamonds and the diamond trade. There is a very good article the Atlantic Monthly did a few years ago that sums up the arguments against Debeers and the diamond trade quite well. Here's part of the article by E. Jay Epstein:

Atlantic Monthly Article (http://www.edwardjayepstein.com/diamond.htm)

However, when it came time to pop the question, I was informed by my otherwise fairly reasonable girlfriend that a real diamond was the only acceptable gift. It could be Gemisis (I pointed it out to her that these were in fact real), but cubic zirconium, etc were not acceptable. Sure, she'd still accept, but she would be resentful of having to wear something she really didn't like. So, even though I never thought I'd ever do it, I bought one.

Every time now she mentions the diamond I tell her some little kid in Africa wants his hand back. It's kind of a sore subject between us.

[Flowers]

I have discussed lab created diamonds with my lady. She is "moderately nonreceptive." I offered to get her a diamond the same size or larger than I would normally have been able to afford, and then make up the balance with other fancies.

Yeah, no dice. I only asked because it was a way to get her a bigger rock, and to maybe have some scratch for an emerald or ruby doodoowhatsit. We both took the rocks for jocks(Gemology) course at UW-Madison, so I thought she might be more interested in having a spread, versus having a single natural diamond that she knows contains flaws. (Perfectionist.)

Also, the blood diamonds thing doesn't bother me because I hate kids.

[TheRock]

I bought my ex a Tanzanite rock with two little diamonds surrounding it. Gorgeous ring, everyone told her it was beautiful BUT it wasn't the princess cut diamond she had always wanted...she constantly reminded me of that...I'm anti-diamond but I made sure to include the two little ones just for her...didn't appease her.

My best friends wife almost married her previous boyfriend who she didn't totally love but told him if he bought her a 15K diamond ring she fell in love with, she would be his...my buddie told me she wasn't like that anymore...of course, he ONLY bought her a 8K diamond ring!

[Squirrel Killer]

Every time now she mentions the diamond I tell her some little kid in Africa wants his hand back. It's kind of a sore subject between us.
You bought it, shut up about it. It's pretty unfair of you to say, "Ok, even though you'll accept a Gemisis diamond and I'm passionately against natural diamonds, I'll still buy a natural diamond for you, but I'll hang it over your head for the rest of our time together."

[noun]

So how do you guys feel about buying cheap clothing, Starbucks coffee, and really, anything ever produced by a corporation?

[mouselock]

The diamond business is bloodthirsty; if you need to waste lots of money to prove your love, why not buy some other prettier mineral?

Much of the other semiprecious and precious gemstone business is just as vicious. Most of those things don't come from enlightened 1st world nations, y'know.

However, pretty is a subjective thing. AFAIK, diamonds still are the gemstone with the highest index of refraction which means they'll still do the coolest things optically when faceted. To a lot of people that's what's pretty about them. (I have to admit that I find the refractive dispersion pretty appealing.. I'd love to see similar in colored gemstones, but... the only other gemstones I think are as pretty really are opals, which are completely unsuitable for an engagement ring due to fragility, and real alexandrite which is every bit as expensive as diamonds if not more so, or at least was ten years ago when I last saw one.)

[graller]

Let me repeat this:

Any woman that feels this way is an idiot. I have absolutely no respect for anyone that assigns love a monetary value. I will also tell you this, I have never seen a healthy relationship based upon this principle, and I probably never will. Good, long lasting relationships are based upon love, mutual respect, friendship and attentiveness. Any bitch that requires an overpriced blood soaked murder gem for proof of love is a woman I want nothing to do with, either in a relationship or in any other capacity.


Does your mother have a diamond ring?

[Raife]

Every time now she mentions the diamond I tell her some little kid in Africa wants his hand back. It's kind of a sore subject between us.
You bought it, shut up about it. It's pretty unfair of you to say, "Ok, even though you'll accept a Gemisis diamond and I'm passionately against natural diamonds, I'll still buy a natural diamond for you, but I'll hang it over your head for the rest of our time together."

Absolutely. Take responsibility for your own actions.

Talk about a drain on a relationship.

[ElGuapo]

I don't mention it EVERY time, that's an exaggeration. I probably should shut up about it but it's that bit of morality kicking the back of my head sometimes. I'd say when she mentions it I might jokingly retort 5% of the time. I mean, I do see the thing EVERY day.

As for coffee, cheap clothing, etc. they are completely different. For one thing there are alternatives that have ready substitutes. For another, the supply of clothing, coffee, cars, etc. is not almost 100% controlled by one organization as in diamonds. Those items are also not artifically inflated by holding reserves and creating a false scarcity. There are many, many differences, mostly having to do with near monopolies, which is why Debeers is so scared of companies like Gemisis and will be ratching up campaigns promoting "natural" diamonds once the cat is out of the bag in a few years. I can't wait.

[mouselock]

It could be Gemisis (I pointed it out to her that these were in fact real), but cubic zirconium, etc were not acceptable.

Unless I'm missing something, all the Gemesis stones are colored (and seem highly colored at that. There's a big difference between natural diamonds which (at least by the time you're shopping at a jewelry store) are near clear, and bright yellow, red, blue, etc..

Has anyone actually managed to make synthetic colorless diamonds that are large enough to use in jewelry?

[Ben Sones]

It's pretty unfair of you to say, "Ok, even though you'll accept a Gemisis diamond and I'm passionately against natural diamonds, I'll still buy a natural diamond for you, but I'll hang it over your head for the rest of our time together."

Pretty unfair, but also pretty funny.

[Squirrel Killer]

I don't mention it EVERY time, that's an exaggeration. I probably should shut up about it but it's that bit of morality kicking the back of my head sometimes. I'd say when she mentions it I might jokingly retort 5% of the time. I mean, I do see the thing EVERY day.
Does it really matter if you compare what she sees as a token of your love to maming African children every single time it comes up or every twentieth time. And while, yes Ben, it's funny, it doesn't really help build the relationship.

[ElGuapo]

Oh, to be clear, I absolutely would have bought the Gemesis stone had it been colorless. But they don't sell colorless diamonds yet, so that's out.

So here's a rhetorical question. Those of you opposed to natural diamonds. If your girlfriend absolutely wanted a diamond as an engagement ring, is your conviction so strong that you wouldn't marry her? Would you absolutely not compromise? Don't give the answer that any girl you would be with would not want a diamond, because that's a cop out. Unless you make that a first date conversation, which is wholly consuming.

Because I came to that point, and I felt I was willing to compromise.

By the way, our relationship is certainly strong and healthy enough to withstand an occasional barb from me and the other way around, so you can drop the "that's unhealthy for your relationship" sermon.

[jpinard]

So how do you guys feel about buying cheap clothing, Starbucks coffee, and really, anything ever produced by a corporation?

My last pair of shoes were LL Bean Wicked Good Slippers.

But... I think what separates the Diamond Industry from ther rest of the world's manufacturing ills - is that ther'es little/no competition and the mass amount of price-fixing that's occured. I don't think there's such a monopoly in coffee, clothes, or shoes... though I could be wrong.

[Rimbo]

Shoot, that list is short about a few dozen reasons, if anything.

Once you get past the "conflict diamonds" angle, you get into the whole "deBeers is the most evil monopoly ever" angle.

Basically, if there were multiple companies selling diamonds and we actually had market price (supply and demand and all that) the price would be a tiny fraction of what it is now.

[Guido Jones]

I'm so fucking lucky my wife's mother is a Jeweler - got the diamond at cost instead of 600% markup.

[Squirrel Killer]

So here's a rhetorical question. Those of you opposed to natural diamonds. If your girlfriend absolutely wanted a diamond as an engagement ring, is your conviction so strong that you wouldn't marry her? Would you absolutely not compromise? Don't give the answer that any girl you would be with would not want a diamond, because that's a cop out. Unless you make that a first date conversation, which is wholly consuming.
Even though it's rhetorical, I'll answer anyway. If my girlfriend absolutely wanted a diamond, and no amount of persuading would sway her, I'd compromise, buy the diamond, and never mention it again.

Because I came to that point, and I felt I was willing to compromise.
Then don't belittle her for your compromise.

By the way, our relationship is certainly strong and healthy enough to withstand an occasional barb from me and the other way around, so you can drop the "that's unhealthy for your relationship" sermon.
My relationship with my wife is strong and healthy too, but I realized that if I continued to point out that she basically let her mom pick our daughter's name, it would be a source of resentment in our relationship. I don't know your wife, so obviously my advice might be off the mark, but I doubt very many women would easily accept a "little kid in Africa wants his hand back" remark about their engagement ring. It may not hurt your relationship, but it certainly doesn't help it either.

[Guido Jones]

Does it really matter if you compare what she sees as a token of your love to maming African children every single time it comes up or every twentieth time. And while, yes Ben, it's funny, it doesn't really help build the relationship.

To be fair to the man, they may exchange barbs in light hearted tones, just like I call my wife a bitch or a cunt (go go deadwood) and then we both laugh. Just becuase your wife would rip your head off or harbor murderous intentions for saying something like doesn't mean his will.

[Jason McCullough]

If your girlfriend absolutely wanted a diamond as an engagement ring, is your conviction so strong that you wouldn't marry her?

Err, no. It's a nice thing to do, but it's not worth ruining a relationship over. My girlfriend isn't vegetarian, either.

[MatthewF]

To be fair to the man, they may exchange barbs in light hearted tones, just like I call my wife a bitch or a cunt (go go deadwood) and then we both laugh. Just becuase your wife would rip your head off or harbor murderous intentions for saying something like doesn't mean his will.
Hmm, I'll probably regret mentioning this, but apparently "beyotch" is now a term of affection in our relationship. I referred to a woman on TV as a "crazy beyotch" and the girlfriend wouldn't speak to me for a few minutes before finally blurting out "but that's my name."

Hmmmm.. yeah I think I'm going to regret this.

[Robert Sharp]

My God...I said that having people die so your wife can have a ring is a sign of your love for her.....and people jump all over me saying I am full of shit?

Ummm....yeah, I WAS full of shit. But your anger about it proves that you didn't actually notice that.

How about this one? All women are secretly lesbians. If your wife tells you she wouldn't want to sleep with another woman, she is lying to you, probably because she doesn't love you enough to want to bring you the pleasure of watching her do it.

[SlyFrog]

My wife didn't want a diamond either - she was perfectly happy with my killing a hobo as a sign of my devotion.

Out of curiosity, how much higher is the standard of living in African countries that do not have diamonds?

[Bill Dungsroman]

I think everyone who is taking a politically-charged moral stand AGAINST THA MAN so you can cheese out of buying your (perhaps purely hypothetical) li'l lady something overpriced that she likes (because, ha ha, wow everything you like is affordably-priced and not a waste of money at all coughcoughguitarcoughgamingrigcoughcoughbigscreenp lasmaTVcough) is queer and a cheap, rationalizing bastard.

That said, anybody dating a girl who sez something like "Nothing but a diamond will do, HUHM!" needs to drop her like a (princess-cut) rock. My gee isn't convulsing over one either, but she'll get one, anyway. That's the point, though.

Se, with that diamond, I'm not just buying her shallow affection and giving 100 African babies AIDS, I'm also doing several other morally-reprehensible things. I'm keeping her wildman Pops off my back (you know how guys marry their moms and gals their dads? Her dad is like Bill^3), Mom swoons yet again, Sisx2 mellows out, no daggers from her (or my) mixed bag of friends, et fucking cetera. Yes, it's very sad, I'm kowtowing to the precious stone meatgrinder of human SOUUUUUUULS not to mention the materialistic bullshit precepts of a few dozen ancillary individuals, none of whom have a legitimate say in how strong our commitment is to each other, her and I, but really...I don't care. You kids go run along and fight the good fight, and forgive me my trespasses on this particular subject, for I am weak.

[Guido Jones]

I think everyone who is taking a politically-charged moral stand AGAINST THA MAN so you can cheese out of buying your (perhaps purely hypothetical) li'l lady something overpriced that she likes (because, ha ha, wow everything you like is affordably-priced and not a waste of money at all coughcoughguitarcoughgamingrigcoughcoughbigscreenp lasmaTVcough) is queer and a cheap, rationalizing bastard.

I take issue with this - you can, you know, do things with a plasma TV - watch football, play 360, watch some DVD's. A diamond does nothing, and just adds extra grief to your life (losing it, breaking it, having it stolen). The TV adds similar grief, but at least it adds other value as well.

As I said though, I bought the ring, cause I'm a fool.

Didn't we have a similar thread to this a year or two ago that was sparked off by a Wired article about the expanding artificial diamond market and De Beers? "A bullet in the head is forever" Edit: Yarr, it's here (http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?t=5149)

[Jason McMaster]

I only buy diamonds that still resonate with a thousand screams of those who died to get it. On second thought, isn't that a De Beers commercial?

[Bill Dungsroman]

I take issue with this - you can, you know, do things with a plasma TV - watch football, play 360, watch some DVD's. A diamond does nothing, and just adds extra grief to your life (losing it, breaking it, having it stolen). The TV adds similar grief, but at least it adds other value as well.

To you Gweed. To you it does, and other people who appreciate the utilitarian/tech dick measurements a big ol' plaz provides. But, you know, a rock provides other, less concrete things that you may or may not appreciate. Put this way: you could spend 1/4 of what a big plasma costs you to get a smaller regular ol' TV and put the couch closer. And it's not entirely impossible that your (or anyone's) lady doesn't at all get the point of dropping 3-5K on a TV set, just as you scratch your head over dropping that much on a finger nugget. In 5-10 years, you'll be moving that TV set into the bedroom as you make way for something even sillier high tech for a couple thou easy, and she still (hopefully) has that same ring, hasn't had to talk you into buying another one because hers doesn't have an auto-clean function or LOJACK microchip. Using tech as a counter-example is a tough sell here.

[Jason McMaster]

A vote against diamonds is also like saying you want to tongue-kiss Machfive

[Euri]

Does your mother have a diamond ring?

No. Her jewelery is religious in nature. As we are Irish, she went with a simple claddagh ring for her marriage. Her mother did the same.

Keep in mind here, my mother married a wealthy man, who could have showered her with diamonds. I am constantly proud of her, in the sense that she never went on wild indulgent spending sprees and she chose to keep her ethics.

As a side note, I tend to only buy things made in America when it comes to every day clothing, but that can be hazardous as things made in Saipan sweatshops CAN be labelled as American. I also buy some French and Italian designed and made clothing. My shoes are all made locally.

[Jason McMaster]

"No, I don't watch television. And you might have noticed I didn't say 'TV'. That's because 'TV' is a nickname, and nicknames are for friends, and Television is no friend of mine."

[extarbags]

I think everyone who is taking a politically-charged moral stand AGAINST THA MAN so you can cheese out of buying your (perhaps purely hypothetical) li'l lady something overpriced that she likes (because, ha ha, wow everything you like is affordably-priced and not a waste of money at all coughcoughguitarcoughgamingrigcoughcoughbigscreenp lasmaTVcough) is queer and a cheap, rationalizing bastard.

Not really, Bill. I don't support companies whose business practices I don't like, plain and simple. I don't shop at Walmart, I don't buy CD's made by RIAA labels, and I don't buy diamonds.

To answer ElGuapo's question: if I sat down and explained to my girlfriend that diamonds are actually nearly worthless, and that the diamond industry is fueled by child slaves and that the proceeds of the sale of that ring are going to fund the illegal arms trade and fucking child armies, and she said "I don't care, I just wants me-shinies," well... I'd have to think about whether or not she was the person I thought she was.

[Guido Jones]

To you Gweed. To you it does, and other people who appreciate the utilitarian/tech dick measurements a big ol' plaz provides. But, you know, a rock provides other, less concrete things that you may or may not appreciate. Put this way: you could spend 1/4 of what a big plasma costs you to get a smaller regular ol' TV and put the couch closer. And it's not entirely impossible that your (or anyone's) lady doesn't at all get the point of dropping 3-5K on a TV set, just as you scratch your head over dropping that much on a finger nugget. In 5-10 years, you'll be moving that TV set into the bedroom as you make way for something even sillier high tech for a couple thou easy, and she still (hopefully) has that same ring, hasn't had to talk you into buying another one because hers doesn't have an auto-clean function or LOJACK microchip. Using tech as a counter-example is a tough sell here.


You missed the whole argument - TV: does Something, Rock: is Rock. It doesn't matter if they have other "special values to emotions" other than that, because *I DON'T CARE*

Spending a ton of money on a fucking rock is stupid, no matter how much you love someone.

[Wholly Schmidt]

You missed the whole argument - TV: does Something, Rock: is Rock. It doesn't matter if they have other "special values to emotions" other than that, because *I DON'T CARE*

Spending a ton of money on a fucking rock is stupid, no matter how much you love someone.
Guido, TV does something, but 50" Plasma TV and 26" CRT do the same something, that's the point Bill was making. Oh wait, the Plasma is bigger? Well? Who cares. Guys care, that's who. Oh wait, the Diamond is...shinier, or something, than I dunno, whatever they make those fake diamonds with? Who cares? Girls care, that's who.

[LarryLard]

2. Diamonds are Priced Well Above Their Value

All these posts and no one called this out.

[Guido Jones]

Guido, TV does something, but 50" Plasma TV and 26" CRT do the same something, that's the point Bill was making. Oh wait, the Plasma is bigger? Well? Who cares. Guys care, that's who. Oh wait, the Diamond is...shinier, or something, than I dunno, whatever they make those fake diamonds with? Who cares? Girls care, that's who.

Except you can see HDTV on a 50" Plasma, and can watch widescreen moveis at the correct ratio. Difference between a fake diamond and a real one? I mean, besides emotional ones? None.

[Ephraim]

Well, I made my call recently, and I popped the question with a Canadian diamond.

I'm Canadian, and the deal was good (sometimes it's good to know people who know people in the diamond wholesale business) but I can't take the high road and say that I wouldn't have jumped on a stone with a more dubious origin if the price had been right. I might have, or I might not have, I guess I'll never know.

In the end, it made my wife-to-be very happy, she enjoys wearing the ring as much as I enjoy playing with my tech toys (of which she supports my purchases). Giving it made me feel good, too. So there's some more positive vibes that went with spending the money.

Sure, it's fundamentally a useless geegaw, but just as much as a Louis Vuitton bag, or any other "fashion" item that could easily be replaced with a burlap sack and/or some unlabelled cloth. It's how wearing it makes the recipient feel that matters, as far as I'm concerned. And my fiancee's enjoyment of her rock made the time spent earning the money to buy it absolutely worthwhile. As far as I'm concerned I got my money's worth from the smile on her face the day I put it on her finger.

[quatoria]

By the way, our relationship is certainly strong and healthy enough to withstand an occasional barb from me and the other way around, so you can drop the "that's unhealthy for your relationship" sermon.

But not strong enough that you felt she would still love you if you didn't compromise your morals for her? Obviously you feel guilt about having done it, and feel some kind of anger that you were pushed into compromising your morals for her diamond lust, or you wouldn't constantly be needling her about it. If your relationship is as strong and healthy as you say, why wouldn't it have survived your refusal to abandon your morals for her? Would she have left you without a diamond? If that's the case, how healthy can a relationship contingent upon the presence of a stone possibly be?

[Jason McMaster]

So anyone that buys his wife a diamond or anyones wife that wants a diamond is a bad person? Wow.

[Jack Black]

Except you can see HDTV on a 50" Plasma, and can watch widescreen moveis at the correct ratio. Difference between a fake diamond and a real one? I mean, besides emotional ones? None.

Yeah, emotional ones and if you haven't been paying attention to women in general. They tend to take things like "emotions" seriously.

[extarbags]

You know, guys, "they're a ripoff" is really the least bad thing about diamonds.

[Troy S Goodfellow]

My wife has specifically told me that she would be very disappointed in me if I bought her diamond jewelry (hell, any jewelry) since that money could help pay for a monster computer upgrade.

Troy

[Ben Sones]

So anyone that buys his wife a diamond or anyones wife that wants a diamond is a bad person? Wow.

No. I know that a lot of people don't know anything about where diamonds come from, or what their real value is, or what sort of people they are funding by buying them. They aren't bad--just ignorant. I bought my wife a diamond when we got engaged, though I wouldn't buy one knowing what I know today.

Someone that knows the details of the diamond trade and still doesn't mind putting money in the pockets of the monsters that run it... well, let's just say that it wouldn't bolster my respect for their ethics.

[noun]

So just so I'm clear - my coffee analogy doesn't work because diamonds are subject to price fixing? So the objection is really about the price and NOT about the AIDS-ridden labor involved to get them?

I'm calling bullshit, boys. Just admit you don't want to spend the money. :)

[Ben Sones]

So just so I'm clear - my coffee analogy doesn't work because diamonds are subject to price fixing? So the objection is really about the price and NOT about the AIDS-ridden labor involved to get them?

I'm calling bullshit, boys. Just admit you don't want to spend the money. :)

No, your coffee analogy doesn't work because coffee comes from a huge number of different producers all over the world, not all of whom are evil AIDS-labor employing bastards. I'll grant you that knowingly buying coffee from a grower who employs labor practices similar to those of DeBeers would be equally immoral, though.

It's funny how so many people think that the typical generic diamond engagement ring is SO romantic, just because it cost you an arm and a leg. You want to spend money? Pay a goldsmith to help custom design a unique ring for you, set with a synthetic diamond. It will probably cost as much--if not more--than a ring with a natural diamond, so your "money spent = how much I love you" equation will be satisfied. It will look a hell of a lot nicer, too.

[Backov]

Shoot, that list is short about a few dozen reasons, if anything.

Once you get past the "conflict diamonds" angle, you get into the whole "deBeers is the most evil monopoly ever" angle.

Basically, if there were multiple companies selling diamonds and we actually had market price (supply and demand and all that) the price would be a tiny fraction of what it is now.

This is yet another of the world problems that would be most easily solved by mass executions. In this case, everyone middle management and above at DeBeers.

[Gordon Cameron]

3. Diamonds Have No Resale or Investment Value
Any diamond that you buy or receive will indeed be yours forever: De Beers’ advertising deliberately brain-washed women not to sell; the steady price is a tool to prevent speculation in diamonds; and no dealer will buy a diamond from you. You can only sell it at a diamond purchasing center or a pawn shop where you will receive a tiny fraction of its original "value."

But can they be disenchanted?

[Flowers]

What's everyone's favorite cut of diamond? Mine is the Cushion.

[TheRock]

Some of those cushion cuts have so many cuts, its almost too busy...I like the Asscher cut.

[wisefool]

2. Diamonds are Priced Well Above Their Value

Beg to differ. Diamonds are priced well above their *cost*.

The 60" DLP has negative value for the wife because it takes up space and looks ugly in the living room. It has value for men cause we get to watch a big screen TV, brag about it to friends, and feel pretty good that you have a big expensive thing.

If everyone had a 60" Pioneer plasma, your DLP would now be a source of shame and you'd secretly want it to break so you could "upgrade."

I personally hate diamonds. It's not just the whole political angle nut that adds a nice moral sheen to my dislike. It's because I think it's a worthless piece of vanity. Same as LV bags,shoes, fur coats. Yet they would think spending $700 on a coffee machine is ridiculous whereas I picture me using it every day, so hey, I'm actually saving money!

EDIT: I have to chime in with Ephraim, however. If you have the money, and you want to make a loved one smile, then go for it. It's not as if you'd be giving the money for mosquito nets in some malaria coast.

[Ranulf]

So just so I'm clear - my coffee analogy doesn't work because diamonds are subject to price fixing? So the objection is really about the price and NOT about the AIDS-ridden labor involved to get them?

I'm calling bullshit, boys. Just admit you don't want to spend the money. :)

Of course. Its always about the money. Never could it be about resentment at being sold a bill of goods by advertising companies since the 1930s and the Debeers ads. Or the phony idea that "love" should be based on an over inflated fucking gem. Dear old dad's diamond ring appraised out at $5k for the estate. I'd be lucky to be able to sell the diamonds out of the gold for 20% of that. Probably more like 10%.

http://brimstone.fpsn.net/~cfaber/funny_stuff/DEBEERS.jpg Image, sorta NSFW

[Flowers]

Asscher cut has too many things going on with the pavillion. What's the one with the two sharp points?

Diamonds are neat, but kinda boring, you know what gemstones rock my nads? These. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapphire)

[TheRock]

Marquise?

http://www.diamondsourceva.com/Education/Shape/Shape.asp

Colored gems done right are so much nicer than diamonds

[noun]

Of course. Its always about the money. Never could it be about resentment at being sold a bill of goods by advertising companies since the 1930s and the Debeers ads. Or the phony idea that "love" should be based on an over inflated fucking gem. Dear old dad's diamond ring appraised out at $5k for the estate. I'd be lucky to be able to sell the diamonds out of the gold for 20% of that. Probably more like 10%.

So is similar outrage being expressed about spending money on her for Christmas and Valentine's Day as well?

[Gav]

My wife had me buy her some pretty pottery to display instead of a ring. She figured she'd rather wear the wedding ring anyway (which has to be a plain gold circlet per Jewish law, no diamonds allowed)

Gav

[Flowers]

Marquise?

http://www.diamondsourceva.com/Education/Shape/Shape.asp

Colored gems done right are so much nicer than diamonds
Right on both counts.

[Ephraim]

My wife had me buy her some pretty pottery to display instead of a ring. She figured she'd rather wear the wedding ring anyway (which has to be a plain gold circlet per Jewish law, no diamonds allowed)

Gav

Gav, wedding ring != engagement ring in my Jewish world. All the married, Jewish women I know wear a plain gold wedding band, but they either pair it with their diamond engagement ring on the left ring finger, or they move the engagement ring to the right hand and wear the band on their left.

[JeffL]

Link (http://www.fguide.org/Bulletin/conflictdiamonds.htm)



It's always convenient when doing the right thing saves you money. :)

When I read that report it loses a lot of credibility due to some of the obvious stretches to achieve an agenda. People should understand that your point is better made if you just stick to what are clear and substantive points and data.

Are diamonds that you buy for rings investment quality that you can resell? No, but you can buy investment quality diamonds if you know what you are doing. No one in their right mind buys an engagement ring to make money, any more than they spend $3000 on a bridal gown as an investment to resell.

The HIV part is a real stretch.

The child slave issue in India (and around the world) is one of those issues that makes me wonder what the U.N. uses as criteria for action. It's horrible, unimaginable in a modern world, yet is so real. But the biggest single offender there is the carpet world - lots and lots of data on that, including the cited article. Don't drink tea either, because more child slaves work on tea plantations by far than diamonds. Sugar is similarly evil. if you buy leather belts, sportwear, etc. you're doing more to support child slavery than diamonds.

Diamonds are priced above their value? By definition, nope. Their value is what people are willing to pay. You can make a big list of things that are "overpriced." I know all about DeBeers (I worked in the jewelry industry while in grad school) and the monopoly. But if people are willing to pay, that is by definition the value, especially something that is completely a luxury.

Countries that produce diamonds use children in war roles - so do countries who don't produce diamonds, there's no real link there.

There are reasons to dislike DeBeers and some of the conditions at the mines, but articles like this that have so much tenuous at best links and data hurt the case for attacking DeBeers.

[Bill Dungsroman]

Not really, Bill. I don't support companies whose business practices I don't like, plain and simple. I don't shop at Walmart, I don't buy CD's made by RIAA labels, and I don't buy diamonds.
So, it's impossible to buy a diamond from anyone but a ravaging slavemonger? Or is it simply that they overcharge for an essentially worthless-aside-from-aesthetics dinky hunk of carbon? Because, in the former case, I can dig it. But, if it's really the latter and you're just trotting out that old saw as a dodge...since, you know, Ephraim over there bought a Canadian diamond for his woman.


If I sat down and explained to my girlfriend that diamonds are actually nearly worthless, and that the diamond industry is fueled by child slaves and that the proceeds of the sale of that ring are going to fund the illegal arms trade and fucking child armies, and she said "I don't care, I just wants me-shinies," well... I'd have to think about whether or not she was the person I thought she was.
And you'd be kind of a fag, but that's beside the point. Canada has child armies and illegal arms trade? Who knew?


Except you can see HDTV on a 50" Plasma, and can watch widescreen moveis at the correct ratio. Difference between a fake diamond and a real one? I mean, besides emotional ones? None.
D-did you just type "correct ratio?" Come on Guid-O-Blab, you're like totally proving my point here. You stand 8 feet away from a plasma TV (which is where my home theater surround sound is built for optimum listening), the difference in clarity between that and a 3LCD is fairly negligible - at the very least, not proportionate to the price differential, at any rate. And you can't say "besides emotional ones," and than carry on the argument. How about I say "besides technical ones?" You're gonna spend far more on your rumpus room then her finger, all told. Now, I'm not going to accuse you of missing my point, because that's some lame-ass bush league shit but whatever, I'm clearly that stupid and argumentatively inept, but I'm not sure you get that one of the major points to buying a diamond for your Lady Love is that it isn't some object with utilitarian appeal, that augments some other section of both of your lives, that everyone can use and enjoy at will. It's hers, from you. Period. The boys don't come over and play grab-ass while the game is on with it. Her sister isn't going to borrow it. It goes on her finger, and there it stays (or, ideally, ought to). It could be a monkey grafted to her forehead for all you or anyone should care. And hey, if you have something else, something she values on a similar level, man that's aces. Just remember: maybe she says she doesn't want a diamond because she knows you won't buy her one, but she loves your ass anyway. Good for her, whatever for you.


No. I know that a lot of people don't know anything about where diamonds come from,
Canada?

or what their real value is,
Dude, capitalize the 'r' and 'v' there and that phrase sounds positively Koontzian. "Real value?" Has everyone here gone bananas? (catch that one, Lutes?) I like how the subject of diamonds turns otherwise rational dudes into devout Buddhists.

or what sort of people they are funding by buying them. They aren't bad--just ignorant. I bought my wife a diamond when we got engaged, though I wouldn't buy one knowing what I know today.
I hope you wear biodegradable hemp from head to toe, walk to work and use a PC composed of whole grains and field vegetables, BS. Otherwise, it just looks kind of silly (not to mention, you know, ignorant) to suddenly jump up in the midst of all your (and my, and our) wretched Western excess and declare "Diamonds? Are you people all sick?"

Someone that knows the details of the diamond trade and still doesn't mind putting money in the pockets of the monsters that run it... well, let's just say that it wouldn't bolster my respect for their ethics.
You forgot to spit in my face there, B, and do that Italian flick of your hand under your chin at my disgraceful personage. Disgrazia!

It's funny how so many people think that the typical generic diamond engagement ring is SO romantic, just because it cost you an arm and a leg.
1 arm (1 radius bone@$2500 + 1 ulnus bone@$2500 + 1 humerus bone@$1550) + 1 leg (1 femur@$5820 + 1 tibia@$1800 + 1 fibula@$1730 + ass't calcaneal/talus bones@3200 + 1 Achilles tendon@$995 + 1 Anterior tibialis tendon and posterior tibialis tendon@$1050 ea. + 1 patellar bone and ligament@$4250 etc) = way more than a diamond ring, Hoss.

You want to spend money? Pay a goldsmith to help custom design a unique ring for you, set with a synthetic diamond. It will probably cost as much--if not more--than a ring with a natural diamond, so your "money spent = how much I love you" equation will be satisfied. It will look a hell of a lot nicer, too.

Man, the back of my tongue has almost swollen my pharynx shut with all the bitterness. You're gonn akill me, because I already designed a ring and setting, but I'm putting a real diamond in it (one with a microflaw, to drive down the price). Haven't signed the waiver that states I know a significant porton of the proceeds goes to help the African Genocide Project, but I'll read the fine print on the Receipt, I assure you.


Also, I too, am now in love with Flowers. He'll like the diamond SOB

[soondifferent]

Something (http://pangaea.org/street_children/latin/flower.htm) else that I don't have to get for my wife. Does chocolate deplete the ozone and cause cancer in little orphan children? Cuz that'd be awesome.

[extarbags]

So, it's impossible to buy a diamond from anyone but a ravaging slavemonger? Or is it simply that they overcharge for an essentially worthless-aside-from-aesthetics dinky hunk of carbon? Because, in the former case, I can dig it. But, if it's really the latter and you're just trotting out that old saw as a dodge...since, you know, Ephraim over there bought a Canadian diamond for his woman.

From the site:

There is no reliable way to insure that your diamond was not mined or stolen by government or rebel military forces in order to finance civil conflict.

And you'd be kind of a fag, but that's beside the point.

Well let me give you another example. Let's say you're sitting at home, playing a game you just got, when your long-term serious girlfriend, who doesn't play games but shows a passing interest in your hobby, comes home.

Her: Hey, what game is this?

You: Oh, it's the new Grand Theft Auto.

Her: Oh, I heard about this. This is the one where you abuse hookers right? Yeah, I don't think so, turn it off, right now.

You: Look, first of all, that's not what the ga--

Her: RARARARARARAI DON'T WANT THAT TRASH IN MY HOUSE RARARARAR.

And so on. Worth ending your relationship over? No, of course not. Worth looking into, though, to find out why she would act that way? Yeah, I'd say so.

[Rimbo]

So how do you guys feel about buying cheap clothing, Starbucks coffee, and really, anything ever produced by a corporation?


I'm pretty much a big-time corporate cheerleader, until the corporation becomes an abusive monopoly. Thus we have good guys and bad guys.

See, Starbucks is a good guy; thanks to Starbucks, the Great American Hot Morning Caffeinated Beverage of Choice doesn't have to taste like battery acid any more; they managed to raise the quality of coffee the average joe drinks. And don't get me started on what soft drinks people choke down in parts of the world where there is no Coca-Cola. McDonald's? Love those $1 double cheeseburgers, and when taking the family on a cross-country trip, you know that the golden arches is a sign of relatively clean restrooms and a safe place for your cooped-up hyperactive 1-year-old to run off some of his energy. IBM? I'll take two, please. Caterpillar? Buy me some stock. Johnson Controls, Inc? Yeah! Wal-Mart? I'm a believer.

Love, love, love corporate America. And the day Microsoft plays by the rules, I'll love them, too. I will! Just watch me.

deBeers loses in the "corporate America" cheerleading on two counts:

1. They're not American. So they don't get the patriotic sympathy vote.
2. They're not so much a corporation with a stranglehold on a market, so much as organized crime.

[TheRock]

Worth looking into? The game is trash...beating up, killing people in numerous ways...her reaction should be that way, you not thinking it should be that way would be somewhat questioning. It is fun though!

[Bill Dungsroman]

From the site:

The terrorists WIN! Come on 'bags, that vague disclaimer isn't gonna cut it.


Well let me give you another example. Let's say you're sitting at home, playing a game you just got, when your long-term serious girlfriend, who doesn't play games but shows a passing interest in your hobby, comes home.

Her: Hey, what game is this?

You: Oh, it's the new Grand Theft Auto.

Her: Oh, I heard about this. This is the one where you abuse hookers right? Yeah, I don't think so, turn it off, right now.

You: Look, first of all, that's not what the ga--

Her: RARARARARARAI DON'T WANT THAT TRASH IN MY HOUSE RARARARAR.

And so on. Worth ending your relationship over? No, of course not. Worth looking into, though, to find out why she would act that way? Yeah, I'd say so.

I'm not just being flippant here 'bags, because you're my boy and I ain't like that, but that analogy sucks.

[Rimbo]

You know, guys, "they're a ripoff" is really the least bad thing about diamonds.

The fact that they're a ripoff kept artificially high by controlling the supply is a big part of the reason for all the other Bad Things. Remove that artificial control of the supply, restore them to their proper market value, and you remove almost everything else magically.

[Raife]

Does chocolate deplete the ozone and cause cancer in little orphan children? Cuz that'd be awesome.

No it would not be awesome because then Tim Tams would be destroying both the environment and the orphans, and respectable people would have to buy Canadian Tim Tams. This would be a problem because they don't make them in Canada, and even if they did they would suck.

Canadian diamonds? Yes. Canadian Tim Tams? Fuck you.

Also, if there is a production facility somewhere in Canada, fuck you.

[fire]

1 arm (1 radius bone@$2500 + 1 ulnus bone@$2500 + 1 humerus bone@$1550) + 1 leg (1 femur@$5820 + 1 tibia@$1800 + 1 fibula@$1730 + ass't calcaneal/talus bones@3200 + 1 Achilles tendon@$995 + 1 Anterior tibialis tendon and posterior tibialis tendon@$1050 ea. + 1 patellar bone and ligament@$4250 etc) = way more than a diamond ring, Hoss.


If we still had the pop-eyed, scared-looking shocked smiley, I would use that.

[extarbags]

The terrorists WIN! Come on 'bags, that vague disclaimer isn't gonna cut it.




I'm not just being flippant here 'bags, because you're my boy and I ain't like that, but that analogy sucks.

It sounded better before I typed it out :(.

[Robert Sharp]

Yeah, but what if slaves made Grand Theft Auto, and umm....they made children go to war to test how the violence would work in real life, and the kids got AIDS because they had to share toilet seats?

[fire]

I'm with Rimbo: corporate America is fabulous.

As far as diamonds go, though, the Evils Of DeBeers was presented in my 11th grade economics class, so I got that end of the argument before I got the Diamonds Mean Love story.

I like pretty shiny things; who doesn't? There is one important similarity between diamond rings and 50" plasma TVs: what you do with them: you look at them. Fundamentally, big, shiny, bright things are nice to look at.

[Sparky]

I like pretty shiny things; who doesn't?
I really like rhinestones. And plastic pony beads. And those shiny colored pebbles you get to put in fishtanks.

I am a very cheap date.

[Qmanol]

I bought an estate ring.

My wife liked it more because it had history, I got it cheaper, and no additional money from me went to the evil deBeers bastards. Win/win. Not to mention that this two months salary thing is ridiculous.

[Angie Gallant]

Matt gave me a diamond ring that is a family heirloom. It means a lot to me that he'd give me something so precious because of it's emotional value. I'd have been just as overwhelmed if it didn't have a gem of any sort. Our wedding bands will not have gems.

[Unicorn McGriddle]

This is one of the rare occasions where if there were a poll, I *wouldn't* vote for shit bonerz.

Fuck diamonds. This is not a men-and-women-should-not-be-together issue, or a men-and-women-are-so-fundamentally-different-on-a-cognitive-level-that-the-best-they-can-hope-for-is-to-fake-it-well-enough-to-get-sex-or-expensive-consumer-products issue, it's about what's really important to you. Maybe if I was some kind of diamond freak, I could understand the NEED for a diamond, but since I'm not, I probably shouldn't marry one.

[shift6]

What I love is that you weren't initially sure if that was bitterness or not.
Fortunately, it was pink sapphires, not diamonds. Looking at the big picture, I suppose I got off on the cheap.

Well, I made my call recently, and I popped the question with a Canadian diamond.
1000 happinesses to you, dude. Congrats.

[Lunch of Kong]

you can buy investment quality diamonds if you know what you are doing.

Gotta call you on this one, Jeff. Diamonds are terrible investments.

1. For something to be an investment, you have to be able to readily liquidate it. There's no "diamond market" where a person can do this. If you can't sell it, its paper worth doesn't mean much. You'd have to try to convince someone to buy your $200,000 diamond.

2. Diamond prices track inflation. There are many other instruments that will give you a return higher than that, and that are readily tradeable.

3. A diamond's value is subjective, and is based upon its grading. Different gemologists will grade the same stone differently. So even if I can find a buyer for my $200,000 diamond, my buyer's appraiser might say "this is D clarity, not C" and only value it at $170,000. Even if his appraiser valued it higher, it won't matter because I already offered to sell it for $200,000.

[Graeme Dice]

1. You've Been Psychologically Conditioned To Want a Diamond

I've also been psychologically conditioned to not urinate in public. What do the particulars of our artificially constructed culture have to do with anything?

2. Diamonds are Priced Well Above Their Value

Diamonds are priced at whatever the market will pay for them. As is just about everything else in the world.

3. Diamonds Have No Resale or Investment Value

You don't buy diamonds with an intent to resell them unless you happen to be a jeweller.

4. Diamond Miners are Disproportionately Exposed to HIV/AIDS

Got any information on how that statistic was collected? Because one easy comparison is to note that Diamond miners are mostly in Africa, where the rate of HIV infection is already higher for completely unrelated reasons.

[Rob Beschizza]

2. Diamond prices track inflation. There are many other instruments that will give you a return higher than that, and that are readily tradeable.

Where I live, there are these Monex ads touting Gold as the ultimate investment, sure to get you rich.

These are the U.S. answer to the infamous "Ambassador, you are spoiling us with the Ferrero Rocher!" ads from Europe. Brilliant, in other words.

Warm, softly lit scenes of a satin-shirted blonde, somewhat past her best years, set against the backdrop of a 1970s firelit cabin. Original fittings. Paneling.

"Goooold. I'm going to tell you about goooold."

She brushes her fingers over piles of gold sovereigns, swirling them around. She hums the word over and over again, uttering statistics, honey-laid with the lurid, breathless quiver of her pornographic contralto voice.

"Goooold."

She smiles, a look of come get some MILF spreading in the base-packed creases of her leathery face. "Goooold," she says, as a chart appears tracking the price of Goooold. You're almost there.

"Goooold."

It's one of my favorite ads, for obvious reasons.

Now, thanks to all you bastards, all I can think of is a male version of her, middle aged and bald and fat, with a strong South African accent, his pudgy sausage fingers sliding around amid diamonds on a glass table.

"Diamends, from Efrica," he licks his lips. "Diamends. You're awl under errest!"

[Graeme Dice]

From the site:

There is no reliable way to insure that your diamond was not mined or stolen by government or rebel military forces in order to finance civil conflict.

The site is lying.
http://www.polarbeardiamond.com/pages/wheretobuy.html

[MikeJ]

Diamonds are priced at whatever the market will pay for them. As is just about everything else in the world.


Every time someone says this I think of that guy signing away his fortune one meal at a time in 'The Count of Monte Cristo'.

[Euri]

I think everyone who is taking a politically-charged moral stand AGAINST THA MAN so you can cheese out of buying your (perhaps purely hypothetical) li'l lady something overpriced that she likes (because, ha ha, wow everything you like is affordably-priced and not a waste of money at all coughcoughguitarcoughgamingrigcoughcoughbigscreenp lasmaTVcough) is queer and a cheap, rationalizing bastard.

Or maybe, just maybe, we find the diamond trade to be morally reprehensible. Canadian gems are clean, Gemesis and the like are clean. Others range from suspect to disgusting. I can't abide that. I also think diamonds are boring, but whatever.

Also, Billy, I probably paid more for the ring I bought than you did. Nanner nanner nanner.

[Bill Dungsroman]

This is one of the rare occasions where if there were a poll, I *wouldn't* vote for shit bonerz.

Fuck diamonds. This is not a men-and-women-should-not-be-together issue, or a men-and-women-are-so-fundamentally-different-on-a-cognitive-level-that-the-best-they-can-hope-for-is-to-fake-it-well-enough-to-get-sex-or-expensive-consumer-products issue, it's about what's really important to you. Maybe if I was some kind of diamond freak, I could understand the NEED for a diamond, but since I'm not, I probably shouldn't marry one.

Well, to me, it ain't about that, either. I think it's awesome that Matt had something like a precious, priceless family heirloom to give Angie. That it's a diamond is, as she says, ancillary, but seeing as how that's traditional, to be given and wear a diamond ring (and I agree with the stoneless wedding rings, incidentally), everything dovetails nicely.

Also, fire would love it if I - or whomever doesn't regard pressurized hunks of carbon as instruments of the BEAST - gave her a diamond ring, and she's like hot, so her opinion somehow counts a lot to me, I dunno what it is. I have no heirlooms, my parents were part of this ridiculous wandering theater group (I guess back in the 60's people did that sort of thing, like a Shakespearian troupe in England or some damned thing) and held very little in terms of material possessions, much less a valuable heirloom. So, I feel it's my undertaking to secure an heirloom for my branch of my family tree, and give it to the lady for whom I will, uh, make the branch grow and bear leaves with, or what the Hell ever. And our son can take that diamond or monkey or whatever and do the same.

See U-Mac, sure that diamond Matt gave Angie didn't cost him nothin', but it sure did somebody. With me, my family, that somebody's going to be so nobody else needs to, and so I have something special to give her that she, like Angie, isn't actually laying in wait to receive.

[Bill Dungsroman]

Or maybe, just maybe, we find the diamond trade to be morally reprehensible. Canadian gems are clean, Gemesis and the like are clean. Others range from suspect to disgusting. I can't abide that. I also think diamonds are boring, but whatever.

Also, Billy, I probably paid more for the ring I bought than you did. Nanner nanner nanner.

I imagine so Euri, since I have yet to actually buy one. Nannest nannest nannest.

[Backov]

Bill, if you want an heirloom, don't buy a diamond. They're artificially rare, and in the next couple years CVD synthetics will start appearing, which are way better than the Gemesis ones, and undetectable from the "real" thing.

So, diamonds are going to be pretty worthless heirlooms in 50 years.

[Euri]

Bill, if you want an heirloom, don't buy a diamond. They're artificially rare, and in the next couple years CVD synthetics will start appearing, which are way better than the Gemesis ones, and undetectable from the "real" thing.

So, diamonds are going to be pretty worthless heirlooms in 50 years.
Gemesis are already indistinguishable, except that they tend to have no flaws at all.

[Backov]

Gemesis are already indistinguishable, except that they tend to have no flaws at all.

Nope.. There's some metallic residue used in the process that's detectable by infrared spectraography. The Apollo Diamond ones are undetectable by any means other than "it's too perfect."

[Euri]

Nope.. There's some metallic residue used in the process that's detectable by infrared spectraography. The Apollo Diamond ones are undetectable by any means other than "it's too perfect."

My mistake.

Then again, if you need infrared spectraography in order to determine it is man made you must be doing something right.

[fire]

So, I feel it's my undertaking to secure an heirloom for my branch of my family tree, and give it to the lady for whom I will, uh, make the branch grow and bear leaves with, or what the Hell ever.
See, I think that's really sweet and hell, diamonds last a long time. But I would also think that's really sweet if you got an heirloom spoon +1 (+2 vs jellies) or something.

[Efthimios G.]

extrabags you said:
Well let me give you another example. Let's say you're sitting at home, playing a game you just got, when your long-term serious girlfriend, who doesn't play games but shows a passing interest in your hobby, comes home.

Her: Hey, what game is this?

You: Oh, it's the new Grand Theft Auto.

Her: Oh, I heard about this. This is the one where you abuse hookers right? Yeah, I don't think so, turn it off, right now.

You: Look, first of all, that's not what the ga--

Her: RARARARARARAI DON'T WANT THAT TRASH IN MY HOUSE RARARARAR.

And so on. Worth ending your relationship over? No, of course not. Worth looking into, though, to find out why she would act that way? Yeah, I'd say so.


She better be one hot piece of ass if you are ready to tolerate such behavior from her. This is not a relationship this is you as her bitch.

[Graeme Dice]

Bill, if you want an heirloom, don't buy a diamond. They're artificially rare, and in the next couple years CVD synthetics will start appearing, which are way better than the Gemesis ones, and undetectable from the "real" thing.

So, diamonds are going to be pretty worthless heirlooms in 50 years.

A heirloom is valuable because it's a link to the past, not because it has any intrinsic value to other people.

[fire]

She better be one hot piece of ass if you are ready to tolerate such behavior from her. This is not a relationship this is you as her bitch.
And if he replies: RARARARAWOULD YOU LIKE A SLICE OF STFU then he'd better be one hot piece of ass. Noob.

[Andrew Mayer]

As far as I understand it from a Jewler friend of mine, Diamonds are essentially worthless once purchased by a consumer. Jewlers won't touch them because attempting to appraise their real value is more trouble than it's worth.

[Efthimios G.]

And if he replies: RARARARAWOULD YOU LIKE A SLICE OF STFU then he'd better be one hot piece of ass. Noob.

So for you the only reply other than the one extrabags mentioned, is to tell her to stfu? Not very clever.

[fire]

If only he had known that at the timeRAAAAARARARARAR
http://www.yikes.com/~fire/qt3/firebrains.jpg

[Ranulf]

So is similar outrage being expressed about spending money on her for Christmas and Valentine's Day as well?

Christmas not so much. Its equal opportunity consumerism. :) Valentine's day... yes the outrage exists. I'll allow Valentines to go on unmaligned though if Steak and BJ day gets as much press and importance in our society. I'm not holding my breath though.

[Bill Dungsroman]

http://www.yikes.com/~fire/qt3/firebrains.jpg

http://decendantsguild.com/gallery/d/1106-2/fire_HUR.jpg

RAAAAARARARARAR!

[Lunch of Kong]

I'll allow Valentines to go on unmaligned though if Steak and BJ day gets as much press and importance in our society.

If any of you guys tell my girlfriend that the rest of the world calls Steak & BJ Day "Valentine's Day", I will hunt you down and kill you. That is all. Have a nice day.

[Chris Nahr]

There is a very good article the Atlantic Monthly did a few years ago that sums up the arguments against Debeers and the diamond trade quite well. Here's part of the article by E. Jay Epstein:

Atlantic Monthly Article (http://www.edwardjayepstein.com/diamond.htm)

With all the rage about ElGuapo's girlfriend eating the hands off little black children, people apparently forgot to read this highly informative article that he linked to, perhaps because his description was somewhat misleading (sorry).

Epstein's article, entitled "Have You Ever Tried to Sell a Diamond?", is actually not yet another activist tirade against the evils of DeBeers but a thorough description of the company's origins and the current situation of the diamond market.

The article also explains why diamonds are a piss-poor investment. In addition to the reasons Roger Wong mentioned (no liquid seller market, uncertain valuation) Epstein notes that jewellers sell diamonds with a whopping 100-200% markup while DeBeers is tightly controlling global supply.

So on one hand you can't ever hope to recoup the surcharge you're paying above the current wholesale price, which is obviously all that a jeweller would be willing to pay you. And on the other hand, as more and more competitors (independent mines and synthetics) enter the diamond business you can bet that even the wholesale price of diamonds will fall. Gizmondo stocks are a better investment than that.

[Gav]

Gav, wedding ring != engagement ring in my Jewish world. All the married, Jewish women I know wear a plain gold wedding band, but they either pair it with their diamond engagement ring on the left ring finger, or they move the engagement ring to the right hand and wear the band on their left.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. She wanted to wear ONLY the wedding band--she was a one ring at a time person, I guess :-). So I didn't get her an engagement ring at all--the engagement present was the pottery. Which made my wallet happy as well; I bought her two nice pieces for relatively little money (at least, relative to a diamond).

Gav

[mouselock]

Bill, if you want an heirloom, don't buy a diamond. They're artificially rare, and in the next couple years CVD synthetics will start appearing, which are way better than the Gemesis ones, and undetectable from the "real" thing.

So, diamonds are going to be pretty worthless heirlooms in 50 years.

WTF does something's quality as an heirloom have to do with it's monetary value? If there's enough family tradition and emotional involvement, I can have an heirloom stick of bubble gum. Good luck liquidating it at an estate sale, but then I'm going to go out on a limb here and bet that Bill isn't looking to establish an heirloom trove so his grandkids can sell it to sniff whatever designer molecular substance is popular in 50 years off a hooker's tits (assuming they're still living in Bill's old stomping grounds).

Though, it is Bill, so there's a somewhat larger chance than normal that I'm wrong about that guess.

[mouselock]

Gemesis are already indistinguishable, except that they tend to have no flaws at all.

And they're fucking brightly colored, which is exceedingly rare in the world of diamonds. Because, actually, we can't make 99.99999999999% pure carbon diamonds that are, y'know, gem grade yet. So all the intersticial shit they inject into the synthetics gives them really bright colors. But otherwise, they're "indistinguishable".

[Lunch of Kong]

I can't tell if you're being facetious, mouselock. In case you're serious, I have to inform you that the human race has had the ability to create pure carbon diamonds for a few years now.

[Flowers]

Here's my reasons not to buy a diamond engagement ring.

1. She wants fake tits NOW.
2. She is from Africa and her brother got AIDS from a diamond.
3. She has no hands. Also, no sense of humor about having no hands. (Most don't!)
4. You don't want to get engaged.
5. She is some kind of hippy and decided on her own that you are a hippy too. (Warning! She may sell your car and excavate a drum circle pit at any time.)
6. They will just take it away from her because they know she only wants it to try and cut the glass and escape from the women's correctional facility.
7. You enjoy dangling the prospect of marriage over her head as a way to keep her at her, "fighting weight."
8. You can just take one from some dumbshit's grave whenever you want.
9. Speaking of taking diamonds, you could probably fund a small contingent of child soldiers in West Africa for a number of months, so why pay $10,000 for one diamond when you can just send six boxes of semiautomatic rifles, bullets, and ramen noodles and own your own diamond mine? (Women like men who accomplish things.)
10. You hate blowjobs.

[Robert Sharp]

I choose 10. Hate is a bit strong perhaps, but they don't do much for me. However, if some 'expert' out there wants to try to change my mind....

[MatthewF]

I choose 10. Hate is a bit strong perhaps, but they don't do much for me. However, if some 'expert' out there wants to try to change my mind....
I didn't really care for them either until I met one of those "experts" you speak of. There's only been 2 girls in my entire life that I'd feel comfortable giving the coveted "UUNNNGGH" award to.

[mouselock]

I can't tell if you're being facetious, mouselock. In case you're serious, I have to inform you that the human race has had the ability to create pure carbon diamonds for a few years now.

No, I'm not being facetious. Last time I looked the Gemisis stuff was the closest and there was always nitrogen or something else in there that gave it the colors and made it possible to crystallize. We've been able to create tiny diamonds for quite a while that are 100% carbon, but completely useless for gem-grade work. Is there somewhere that's creating colorless (or nearly so, in gemological terms, not in the "It's only a pale yellow to the eye" term) synthetic, gem-grade diamonds that I'm not aware of? As near as I can tell Gemisis certainly isn't it. All the other stuff I've seen has been "near diamonds" which are all varying grades of artificial crystals of types that have IORs near that of diamonds and hardnesses pretty close, but aren't, actually, diamonds. (I care about both hardness for durability and index of refraction for look if I'm going to consider synthetics instead of real.)

[SlyFrog]

I didn't really care for them either until I met one of those "experts" you speak of. There's only been 2 girls in my entire life that I'd feel comfortable giving the coveted "UUNNNGGH" award to.

That's beautiful.

[Rywill]

I didn't really care for them either until I met one of those "experts" you speak of. There's only been 2 girls in my entire life that I'd feel comfortable giving the coveted "UUNNNGGH" award to.
Can you give us some more detail? What was so great about them? Also, more detail about your sex life in general would be great. Let us know in particular about cool exploits, like if you've ever been in a threesome or had sex in a public place. I would also like to know about how hot the girls you date are, all the crazy things they do for you, and so on.

Thanks!

[SlyFrog]

Can you give us some more detail? What was so great about them? Also, more detail about your sex life in general would be great. Let us know in particular about cool exploits, like if you've ever been in a threesome or had sex in a public place. I would also like to know about how hot the girls you date are, all the crazy things they do for you, and so on.

Thanks!

I'd like to know if there were any rings or tongue studs involved. If so, please detail the gauge and metal composition.

[MatthewF]

Can you give us some more detail? What was so great about them? Also, more detail about your sex life in general would be great. Let us know in particular about cool exploits, like if you've ever been in a threesome or had sex in a public place. I would also like to know about how hot the girls you date are, all the crazy things they do for you, and so on.

Thanks!
Did you think I was channelling Bill or something? I'm fairly modest about my sex life, it hasn't been an amazing 10 years but I've gotten a fair share of enjoyment out of it. Sorry, no threesomes, no dating strippers, no sex in public places, no crazy animal women that shredded the skin on my back with their nails (although I dated a bipolar girl for a brief period, and that was... interesting). So I've met 2 girls that give good head, big deal. I'm sure just about anyone here can beat that.

I just wanted to reassure Mr. Sharp that even though I was a non-believer in the Power of the Blowjob for years, it didn't mean that I didn't like them. I just hadn't met a girl with an appropriate level of talent yet.

[Guido Jones]

Yeah, emotional ones and if you haven't been paying attention to women in general. They tend to take things like "emotions" seriously.

Yeah I know, that's why I spent $6k on the one for my wife. My issue was with Bill saying that Diamonds are to women what HDTV's are for men, which is just fucking false.

[Guido Jones]

You stand 8 feet away from a plasma TV (which is where my home theater surround sound is built for optimum listening), the difference in clarity between that and a 3LCD is fairly negligible - at the very least, not proportionate to the price differential, at any rate.

Wha? LCD's are more expensive then Plasma's (or were last I checked).

Anyway, all I'm trying to say is that equating an HDTV purchase to a diamond purchase is goofy, because they're totally different. One has practical use, one does not. One is for entertainment, one is for showing someone you love them. And as I said, now for the third time, I did buy my wife a Diamond when we got engaged.

[fire]

I just wanted to reassure Mr. Sharp that even though I was a non-believer in the Power of the Blowjob for years, it didn't mean that I didn't like them. I just hadn't met a girl with an appropriate level of talent yet.
Talent is directly proportional to the size of the rock on her finger.

[MatthewF]

Talent is directly proportional to the size of the rock on her finger.
Noted.

[Flowers]

Did you think I was channelling Bill or something? I'm fairly modest about my sex life, it hasn't been an amazing 10 years but I've gotten a fair share of enjoyment out of it.

Whoa, dude, you're only ten? That's awesome.

[Ben]

Sobering thought for the day: If your girl(guy) gives good head it's almost certainly because her(his) previous boyfriends were bigger than you.

On the other hand, Scry, banging >2 chicks by your tenth birthday is pimp.

[Lunch of Kong]

Last time I looked the Gemisis stuff was the closest

Yeah, they came up with a new method for making diamonds.

The "old" Gemesis diamonds are grown inside a metal solvent, and some of that metal gets trapped in the diamond.

The new* chemical vapor deposition process (CVD) grows diamond crystals by turning carbon into a plasma, which then precipitates as a pure diamond crystal.

The color grade of CVD diamonds is about "F". I believe a company called Apollo Diamond holds the US patent for this process.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/techinnovations/2005-10-06-man-made-diamonds_x.htm
http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/SavingandDebt/P97816.asp
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.09/diamond_pr.html

* - CVD has been around for a while, but it's only in recent years that smart boffins have figured out how to get the diamond precipitate to form a single crystal instead of lots of small ones.

[Backov]

No, I'm not being facetious. Last time I looked the Gemisis stuff was the closest and there was always nitrogen or something else in there that gave it the colors and made it possible to crystallize. We've been able to create tiny diamonds for quite a while that are 100% carbon, but completely useless for gem-grade work. Is there somewhere that's creating colorless (or nearly so, in gemological terms, not in the "It's only a pale yellow to the eye" term) synthetic, gem-grade diamonds that I'm not aware of? As near as I can tell Gemisis certainly isn't it. All the other stuff I've seen has been "near diamonds" which are all varying grades of artificial crystals of types that have IORs near that of diamonds and hardnesses pretty close, but aren't, actually, diamonds. (I care about both hardness for durability and index of refraction for look if I'm going to consider synthetics instead of real.)

Your information is out of date. Gemesis can produce clear stones, it's just a longer process and they don't currently do it for marketing reasons. The gems are only detectable by spectraography (sp?).

Apollo Diamond is the new up and comer, and uses Carbon Vapor Deposition, and the gems are absolutely undetectable, flawless, any color, and are up to 3 carats.

Read and learn man. I'm not sure when your information was right, but it's not now, and hasn't been for a while.

[MatthewF]

10 years of my sex life people, not entire life.

Sobering thought for the day: If your girl(guy) gives good head it's almost certainly because her(his) previous boyfriends were bigger than you.
I think I understand your reasoning for this, but "almost certainly" is quite a stretch. When it came down to feeling good on my part, I realized it was the way it was being done. There's a wrong way, and a right way, apparently, and a lot of girls don't seem to know the difference.

[Lunch of Kong]

Instead of calling these synthetic diamonds, we should call them cultured diamonds. I mean, women have no problem wearing cultured pearls. With enough marketing, I'm sure they can be persuaded to accept cultured diamonds as well.

[mouselock]

Read and learn man. I'm not sure when your information was right, but it's not now, and hasn't been for a while.

Figuring out whether or not they'd gotten to where they could grow diamonds hasn't really been a huge priority.

I did catch the part where they found a substance harder than diamond, because, y'know, that was news. And I heard about Gemisis because that was also news as nobody had been able to grow large size before that. Guess the large size, clear slipped past me, sorry.

Nifty though. Will check em out.

(I have no attachment to actual mined diamonds that haven't, y'know, been passed down through my family for ages.)

Edit: And for the purposes of this discussion, while we may be able to make them, you still can't buy them for general jewelry usage. Apollo intends to sell 0.25-1.0 carat colorless or near colorless stones as part of pre-set jewelry sometime in the future, but they currently aren't generally available. So we're still back at "if you want something that's a diamond in the traditional sense, you have to buy one; if you want a highly colored, high IoR rock, you're set" The problem with highly colored is, of course, that the coloration filters parts of the visible spectrum, and the diffractive effect of colorless or nearly so diamonds is much of why they're sought after as things of beauty.)

[Bill Dungsroman]

Did you think I was channelling Bill or something?
Dude! The Bill Channel is on 24/7. Okay, early in the morning it's infomercials, but they're mostly for Sybian and Wet Platinum.


I'm fairly modest about my sex life, it hasn't been an amazing 10 years but I've gotten a fair share of enjoyment out of it. Sorry, no threesomes,
Overrated.


no dating strippers,
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOverrated.


no sex in public places,
Wimp! Dude, it's like the only time that you are lauded for your premature ejaculative tendencies. What's the worst that could happen? What're they gonna do, take away your birthday? I'm still hoping for that crazy porno See-Fuck-Do-Fuck hornball chain reaction, but alas.


no crazy animal women that shredded the skin on my back with their nails (although I dated a bipolar girl for a brief period, and that was... interesting).
No it wasn't, it sucked. Anyway, being bipolar is like the New Thing these days. My buddy in college, now this motherfucker was bipolar. Used to perform "bloodless" surgery on himself (all the blood in the bathroom was from, I dunno, the cat I guess), had a messiah complex, you name it.


So I've met 2 girls that give good head, big deal. I'm sure just about anyone here can beat that.
You'd be surprised. Lots of people, of both sexes, suck at sex. Worse yet, they don't even know it. One reason: people tend to treat their partner like they want to be treated, which of course thanks to our specific physical (and, to a large but more variant degree, emotional) differences, is about the worst outcome imaginable that doesn't involve teeth, blood, or both. So you get wimpy BJ's and TONE IT DOWN A NOTCH THERE RAMBO cunnilingus. 'Cuz like, what, you tell her she's bad at head, Montalban. Hope you like that hand; hope that hand likes you.


I just wanted to reassure Mr. Sharp that even though I was a non-believer in the Power of the Blowjob for years, it didn't mean that I didn't like them. I just hadn't met a girl with an appropriate level of talent yet.
Totally. And hey, I've no doubt it ain't an easy undertaking, putting a guy's Golan Globus into your gob and like doing something with it. But, like most things, it's a lot about paying attention.


Yeah I know, that's why I spent $6k on the one for my wife. My issue was with Bill saying that Diamonds are to women what HDTV's are for men, which is just fucking false.
It certainly is. However, I never said such a thing. Pay attention! Man, I coughed out "plasma tv" as an example of overpriced shit guys dig on that women, on average, might not. You took that ball and ran with it, citing chapter and verse on the advantages of a big-ass plasma TV over a smaller, less cutting-edge tech TV (whatever it may be, last fall plasmas sure seemed more expensive than LCD) at a much smaller price. Now I have to put my fucking monocle back in, goddammit.

See, taking the cost differential between a smaller CRT TV or some other type of TV and the big-screen high def monkeyfuck TV is an easy 2 grand or summat, yes? More, even? Take that same cash, you can bust out a diamond. It's all frosting. Now, with the TV, you got some cake under that frosting. Maybe you got none under the diamond, but don't even go there in regards to the level of warm fuzzies you get with your TV and her with her rawk. See, if that older TV gets the job done (more in your theoretical sigoth's mind in this instance, I make no assumptions about Mrs. Gweed) the same as the big'un, all that extra cash is simply to make you feel like a big sexy tech tiger. Imagine if she busted that fucker on you, on your birfday. Man, if my lady did that, I'd have a transplant surgeon graft a cock on her just so I could suck it. That's...that's a helluva thing, there, what she did. She sure didn't have to, Hell I didn't need some monstro box like that, we'd make do quite alright with a smaller one. I didn't ask, I wouldn't ask, that's not very fair.

..but I ain't taking it back, motherfucker. I'll cut you if you touch it! MINE! MINE!

..Yes, Darling? The extra absorbent economy pack? Sure, heh heh, jus' let me get my car keys...

[fire]

Talent is directly proportional to the size of the rock on her finger.

Noted.

Whoops, there go those absence of smileys again.

[MatthewF]

Don't worry, i took it as a joke. Guess you wouldn't know without a smiley either, though.

[MarchHare]

I don't have time to read all six pages of this thread, but when I proposed to my girlfriend last month, she explicitly told me she didn't want a diamond or any engagement ring at all.

She's also going to use her deceased mother's wedding ring, and I'm going to use my grandfather's. We have far more important things to spend our money on at the moment, such as paying for our wedding and saving for a down payment on a home. Why anyone would be so stupid as to blow huge wads of cash on a worthless token baffles me. Don't most young couples have more pressing financial concerns?

[Stroker Ace]

when i blew a month's salary on a diamond at the tender age of 21, i told myself "hey, i can finally afford this, maybe i can afford being married."

we'd been dating 4 years at that point, and while we'd known we wanted to marry for a while, we weren't really in the right place for it financially (not to mention college, career, etc). so once we got there, we got married.

[mouselock]

We have far more important things to spend our money on at the moment, such as paying for our wedding and saving for a down payment on a home. Why anyone would be so stupid as to blow huge wads of cash on a worthless token baffles me. Don't most young couples have more pressing financial concerns?

Oddly, I see the ring (as a lasting meaningful trinket) as a lot more important than spending gobs of money on a huge party where 99% of the people getting the benefit are neither you nor your betrothed.

[Bill Dungsroman]

I don't have time to read all six pages of this thread, but when I proposed to my girlfriend last month, she explicitly told me she didn't want a diamond or any engagement ring at all.

She's also going to use her deceased mother's wedding ring, and I'm going to use my grandfather's. We have far more important things to spend our money on at the moment, such as paying for our wedding and saving for a down payment on a home. Why anyone would be so stupid as to blow huge wads of cash on a worthless token baffles me. Don't most young couples have more pressing financial concerns?

Yeah, like blowing huge wads of cash on a wedding.

[Stroker Ace]

my wife and i are like the only ones who didn't get drunk at our wedding - we had to catch a flight 4 hours away.

[Rimbo]

my wife and i figure we'll get married eventually

to each other, i mean

[SlyFrog]

my wife and i figure we'll get married eventually

to each other, i mean

All that matters is that you know. Her opinion is fairly irrelevant.

[Unicorn McGriddle]

As far as I understand it from a Jewler friend of mine, Diamonds are essentially worthless once purchased by a consumer. Jewlers won't touch them because attempting to appraise their real value is more trouble than it's worth.

Some of my best friends are Jewlers.

[John Merva]

Yeah, like blowing huge wads of cash on a wedding.

I actually made a profit on my wedding!!

[shift6]

And if he replies: RARARARAWOULD YOU LIKE A SLICE OF STFU then he'd better be one hot piece of ass. Noob.
So for you the only reply other than the one extrabags mentioned, is to tell her to stfu? Not very clever.
You might have missed it: fire is a chick. With a nice ass, BTW.

Sobering thought for the day: If your girl(guy) gives good head it's almost certainly because her(his) previous boyfriends were bigger than you.
Link? Genuinely curious.

[Nellie]

My GF was munching carpet prior to meeting me, and she's awful, if that bears any relation to the BJ argument.

(on the plus side there's no teeth involved)

[Bill Dungsroman]

My GF was munching carpet prior to meeting me, and she's awful, if that bears any relation to the BJ argument.

(on the plus side there's no teeth involved)

She has no teeth? Choice catch there, Nel.

[Unicorn McGriddle]

As I recall, Nellie lives in England (or Australia; one a them places where they talk their English funny), where no teeth is probably the best case teeth scenario.

[JM]

No no, in England our teeth are funny and uneven and often razor-sharp from gnawing on the bones of American tourists when they end up in Cornwall.

[CJ Martin]

(on threesomes) Overrated.


Not in my experience.

(insert smug smilely here)

-CJ / a.k.a. Smut

[bago]

I concur with CJ.

[Hanzii]

This thread just cost me $5 in the airport, because I had to read it to it's sordid end (Starting out diamonds=bad! to geek strangers bragging about sex they've had... wtf!?)
The thread was so totally priced 2-300% above it's True Value.
(I'd pay a buck fifty for a version with just Bills posts however)

I bought a nice silver ring with a piece of glass in it for my wife.
Then I later bought a diamond when I was in South Africa, because you have to buy diamonds, when you're in South Africa (or ivory... but that can get you shot).

[Chris Nahr]

I bought a nice silver ring with a piece of glass in it for my wife.

Was that one of those goodies from a bubble gum vending machine?

[Unicorn McGriddle]

No no, in England our teeth are funny and uneven and often razor-sharp from gnawing on the bones of American tourists when they end up in Cornwall.

Yeah, see, that's why no teeth is the best-case scenario -- the alternative is the jagged, filed-to-points sawblade of yellow-brown Pictish teeth being dragged across your anatomy like an ice scraper.

[Flowers]

Picts aren't from Cornwall. Speaking of the small degenerates of the British Isles, I believe that "pwnt" is actually a Welsh word.

Now that I think about it, a lot of leetspeek looks like Welsh. Mainly because its a jumble of mumbly consonants, but also because I am a bigot against Catherine Zeta Jones.

[Chris Nahr]

Of course Picts are from Cornwall! Haven't you read Robert E. Howard?

[MarchHare]

Yeah, like blowing huge wads of cash on a wedding.



Oddly, I see the ring (as a lasting meaningful trinket) as a lot more important than spending gobs of money on a huge party where 99% of the people getting the benefit are neither you nor your betrothed.


I probably should have mentioned we're planning a really small wedding as well; we're aiming for under 50 attendees, including both of us.

[Matthew Gallant]

we're aiming for under 50 attendees, unlike both of us.
So, the reception won't be at the Raelian compound, is that what you're saying?

[MarchHare]

So, the reception won't be at the Raelian compound, is that what you're saying?

Gah, I was hoping I fixed that before nobody noticed it!

[Matthew Gallant]

Gah, I was hoping I fixed that before nobody noticed it!
Are you calling me a nobody?

[Qenan]

Again, part of proving you love her....

You guys will never be happily married.

Sure we are. Just not to women so shallow that they are worried about diamonds.

[Robert Sharp]

*sigh*

[mdowdle]

*sigh*

Translation: Please bring back smilies before we start killing each other over here.

[quatoria]

*sigh*

Aw, come on, Robert, give us a smile. Oh, wait, right, you can't.

[wildpokerman]

1. You've been phychologically conditioned to want a diamond.

Would a Scientology audit help me with this conditioning?

[Lunch of Kong]

You bet! All your income will go to books and tapes and audits instead of to a diamond.

[Flowers]

Diamonds probably are remote beacons to Xenu's Mindlaser anyways.

[Bill Dungsroman]

I concur with CJ.

My lower jaw literally did a Tex Avery KA-THUNK at that reveal, bago.

I dunno. Maybe it was the other two guys, I didn't know them that well :(

[Jackstar]

Diamonds are for peasants.

[magnetic_rose]

Working in the gem industry is a professional hobby I pursue, have been in one form or another for about 9 years. The company I work for does the big trade shows (AGTA, GLDA, etc. and primarily sells high-end loose colored gemstones and pearls, with some finished jewelry.) As a result of working with a bunch of low-to-high-end dealers and retailers, I have seen first-hand how it all works. I have seen also that there are two VERY distinct trends at the shows: there's the diamond dealers, and then there's everybody else.

So here it is, scenario 1, you are not looking for a diamond, you want something for your girl, anything else. You go to show looking for a stone, you're bound to, if you're clever and compare and are willing to haggle, get what you like for a decent price. For instance, if you want a ring, you buy the pieces (stone and mount) separately at the show. It's harder to judge a SET stone for quality (mounts can hide flaws) and compatibility (does it look the best) with a given mount, and the jeweler you buy the mount from sets the stone for free anyway. Sure, you have to shop around, but you can *always* find a good deal on a colored gem, ANY colored gem, as long as you take your time. Colored stone dealers know, unless it's an ultrararity like star alexandrite or a giant paraiba, they have to compete for your business with the 500 other shmoes selling the same 5ct trillian cut tourmaline you're looking for. In addition, these dealers also know in many cases, most of the value of the ring is not going to be in their gem, but in the gold (or other precious metal).

So on with Scenario 2, you gotta have some princess cut jobby-doo, and you try to buy a single diamond to be mounted. First, unless you go into this jungle with a "guide" they will push you, the inexperienced retail-world average joe, into something you probably don't want. The higher end wholesalers, not wishing to be bothered with a non-expert running around with the telltale "GUEST" badge, would treat you with disdain, as you are someone who isn't interested in buying or trading "packets" (ie hundreds of thousands of dollars in cut stone merchandise being shifted around between the diamond concerns like so much glassy cattle), and they may try to get you to buy a preset ring from their case, knowing that you probably wouldn't have the knowledge or the balls to argue or to use a loupe and tweezers to look though a packet for the pick you want to set later. (The colored gem dealer will, on the other hand, happily open a packet and let you go through every stone in hopes you will buy one or more stones) Adding to that, you now have a non-colored gem in the setting; the metal is expensive enough, but you're paying doubly through the nose for overpriced, brilliant cut carbon. The lower end diamond merchant will just push the hard sell, since they usually only have presets, and are not unlike any retail jewelry store; you probably wouldn't get a much better bargain than simply going to the mall.

That's why the retail stores make such a brisk business in overpriced, low-quality diamonds; most people cannot even go to the shows, get the good deals, or know someone who can get them what they want. It's simply not worth the effort or hassle for most people, so, unarmed with any knowledge of the extraordinary complexity of the diamond trade, they get what is expected of them, and the "tradition" continues.


Whether you are bothered by the mafia practices of the DeBeers cartel or not, even at the wholesale and retail end of it, the price fixing is unbelieveable, the snobbery is unreal, the attitude is just plain annoying. I don't know how many times I have been to so-called rare gem shows, where a colored gem dealer was shutout from getting tradeshow floor space because some diamond industry people wedged their way in. It's politics, it's a pain, and you just don't get what you pay for.

[Donald L.]

Interesting article on diamonds: Have You Ever Tried to Sell a Diamond? (http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/198202/diamond)

[Chris Nahr]

Dear Semi-Noob,

Not only did you reply to post that was already over a month old, you also posted a link that (while certainly interesting) had already been posted not just once but twice in this very thread.

Yours,
Old Salt v2

[Donald L.]

My fault for not having continued reading after the first few posts.

Are you the same Old Salt from c.s.ibm.pc.games.strategic?

[Kalle]

I think he's Cristoph Nahr from c.s.i.p.g.s , but I could be mistaken.

[Chris Nahr]

Yeah, I don't actually know the real name of the Saltster. He keeps showing up on war-historical about once a year, telling everyone that the NG has gone to shit.

[XPav]

If only they had let him make it a moderated NG!

[VegasRobb]

"Old Salt" ... wow.

Donald, don't let these guys dissuade you from practicing thread necromancy.

[Lizard_King]

And here I thought I was the clever one for using Blue Nile instead of a mall store for an anniversary gift...I'll have to let my wife know she is wearing two clumps of bloadsoaked AIDS in her ears. She'll be thrilled.

Thanks for that, dead thread guy!

[Dain]

When I got engaged I didn't want a diamond (I didn't want yellow gold either, just a personal preference there). So I found a ring I really liked that had a hugely expensive diamond in it and asked how much it was with a sapphire. The price came down significantly and I got a nice ring with the stone I wanted. I will admit expensive diamonds can be very pretty but there are so many other things you can spend that kind of money on that are actually worth the money spent. I'd personally rather have an plasma screen TV or an awesome computer, or something more useful like a down payment on a house than jewelry. Plus, diamonds are boring (along with brand names that are expensive for no reason).

Unfortunately, the engagement was broken off and so now I have a ring that I have no idea what to do with. I've worn it a few times on a different finger, but what do you do with a ring like that? Strangely enough, my sister also got a white gold ring with a sapphire (totally different style of ring) and her engagement was also broken off.

[Marcus]

That sounds like some serious bad luck.

[Flowers]

No, it sounds like diamonds have the magical power to make love last forever and that other stones don't. That leaves me with just one question, what's the ioun stone color for anonymous romps?

[walTer]

Dain:

Sell and get a really sweet laptop, Tivo and a flat screen TV.

just sayin'

[Jason McCullough]

Interesting Epstein article from the Atlantic Monthly about the history of De Beers (http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/198202/diamond).

[Chris Nahr]

http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/violent001.gif

[Lunch of Kong]

Jason, that's just cruel.