Dragon Quest VIII

[Qenan]

I tried to find the old thread to post in, but it didn't seem to come over from the old boards...

I'm only a few hours into Dragon Quest VIII, but am enjoying it so far. It has a very "retro" feel to me... kind of like a DOS game from 1995. That's not quite right, because the graphics are slightly better than that, but it's close.

Fixed a typo

[Ben Sones]

The open-ended world and exploration is not so retro, though. This game hits a lot of the right notes for me; I like the bright, goofy style. The characters are great and the story is interesting. The exploration is awesome, though I wish the random combat was a little less random (or at least a little less frequent). It's not as bad as a lot of JRPGs in that respect, though. The combat system doesn't overwhelm you minutiae, as these sorts of games often do, but still provides some interesting tactical choices. I'm about 20 hours in, and so far I love it.

I hope Rogue Galaxy gets brought over to the states. That's another one that looks really interesting to me.

[Qenan]

Well, Daggerfall had fairly open-ended exploration, but you're right, it wasn't common.

I'm enjoying this game quite a bit, even with the random combat.

[Ben Sones]

Well, Daggerfall had fairly open-ended exploration, but you're right, it wasn't common.

It's a lot more common in PC games than it is in console RPGs, especially Japanese ones. Those tend to be pretty linear, and they have gotten even moreso in recent years. Dragon Quest VIII seems pretty wide open, though--especially once you get to the second continent.

[Jason McMaster]

So this game is pretty good? Thinking about picking it up today. Been a while since I've RPG'd old skool.

[RickH]

So this game is pretty good? Thinking about picking it up today. Been a while since I've RPG'd old skool.

I've started a lot of RPGs and finished few, and I'm with this one until the end. Great to look at, lots of story, the world just feels huge.

And I want to see what other outfits I can get for Jessica.

[Jason McMaster]

also: Old Dragon Quest (http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?t=22471&highlight=dragon)

[Qenan]

It's been great so far (maybe 6-7 hours in?). Light-hearted and fun.

[Marcus]

The game is 34.99 at Bestbuy this week and you can use a 10$ off 29.99 or higher to get it down to 24.99. Its a steal at that price.

[Jason McMaster]

I tried best buy and they were sold out. I went and paid full price which angers me, but if its that good I'll deal with it.

[Bob Cherub]

Do you have the link to that $10 off $30 Best Buy coupon? I had it at one time but now I can't find it.

thx!

[Marcus]

Do you have the link to that $10 off $30 Best Buy coupon? I had it at one time but now I can't find it.

thx!

http://www.phosphors.com/bb10vg%282a%29.pdf

[Nathan]

What's the source of that coupon? Just so I have an answer if the clerk gives me shit about it.

[Marcus]

It was in a book for the 360 launch 2. They shouldnt really flip you too much shit about it as it should just scan right up.

[Bob Cherub]

It says markdowns taken from regular prices.. any one use it successfully with a on sale item?

[Marcus]

It says markdowns taken from regular prices.. any one use it successfully with a on sale item?

Well I am going to try it tonight so we'll see but I dont think it will be a problem.

[SmokeyNecrosis]

My problem may be that I cant stand the icky sweetness of Japanes RPGs, but its a total sugar overdose when one of the first monsters you fight is a "Candy Cat" that periodically stops to lick its face during battle. I'm feeling pretty heroic after killing a herd of those.

Otherwise, the game seems a bit like a Final Fantasy rip off dipped in molases, which is not by any means to suggest that Final Fantasy was in any way edgy.

I wish I could import the Spartan from God of War into this game and just lay waste.

[Angie Gallant]

The cute shit in this game totally makes my dick feel small.

Wait...

[Ex-S Woo]

That's pretty funny considering Dragon Quest predates Final Fantasy and FF started out as a Dragon Quest clone...go fig.

[Qenan]

My problem may be that I cant stand the icky sweetness of Japanes RPGs, but its a total sugar overdose when one of the first monsters you fight is a "Candy Cat" that periodically stops to lick its face during battle. I'm feeling pretty heroic after killing a herd of those.

I want to include (http://www.theoryoffun.com/theoryoffun.pdf) Raph Koster's slide about GTA and powerups, but the damn thing's in a PDF.

Anyhow, whatever. The bad guys are silly, and if that puts you off, it does. Doesn't bother me.

[Matthew Gallant]

I'm feeling pretty heroic after killing a herd of those.
Is your sarcasm meant to imply that you do feel heroic after playing God of War? Because that's what it does.

[SmokeyNecrosis]

Ummm...I think that is what I'm saying. Playing these games is an escape. You take on the role, i.e. role playing game, of the charachter. So now I'm playing the role of a Candy Cat murderer.

[Matthew Gallant]

All right, just wanted to make sure before I send of this Presidential Medal of Freedom nomination form. I see you live in Los Angeles, but I have to ask whether or not you're an American citizen.

[SmokeyNecrosis]

I'm French.

[Matthew Gallant]

Bonjour, amis de héroisme!

[Ben Sones]

I love the monsters in DQVIII. The Candy Cat rocks.

[Moggraider]

Is your sarcasm meant to imply that you do feel heroic after playing God of War? Because that's what it does.


I think we all have to be able to feel some sense of accomplishment from playing videogames, because whether or not we admit it, the act of gaming is basically just us sitting on our asses in front of a TV for hours at a time. It is the search for some sense of accomplishment that makes me, for example, pretty much only play single-player games (usually RPG's) - if I beat a game, I can pat myself on the back for having seen/heard a good, or at least halfway-decent, story. If I don't beat a game, I feel guilty about having wasted the money. If someone else feels sort of heroic from playing God of War, that's all the better.

But when we're doing all that sitting just to defeat creatures as inane as Candy Cats, we might feel a little stupid about the way we're spending our time.


Not that Candy Cats bother me personally. DQVIII rocked.

[Angie Gallant]

But when we're doing all that sitting just to defeat creatures as inane as Candy Cats, we might feel a little stupid about the way we're spending our time.

Funny, I feel the same way about threesome minigames.

[Jasper]

Ugh. Candy Cats? What's next, Smurfs? Baby rabbits? Do you start with wooden swords?

How utterly epic and enthralling.

Do you DQ8 lovers (which seems to be almost everyone!) not care about setting at all, or is the rest of the game simply so good you look past it? Were this a book or a novel done in the same style, would you still like it?

Hmmm, or perhaps I should look at it from another angle... How well does it play along with a 6 year old kid? Are the cutscenes voiced as well as subtitled? Is there a large level grinding gamer tax?

[Backov]

When you see how lovingly rendered and over the top goofy so many of the (huge number of) monsters are - it's hard not to forgive the style.

[Matthew Gallant]

No baby rabbits, just the bunicorns: mean little cross-eyed bunnies with a single horn in between their floppy fuzzy ears.

No smurfs, but there are blue-skinned satyrs that prance and happily play their pan flutes upside your head. And occasionally, they get mad and turn red.

Oh, and giant laughing dinner bells.

[Angie Gallant]

Why does setting need to be serious?

[Ben]

The rest of the game is that good, but it starts to wear on you after the 18th Disney reject you beat to death.

Angie- You really want to get feminist defending Dragon Warrior 8? You happen to recall what special skill Jessica brings to the party?

The setting doesn't have to be serious, but it would help. I don't get why this is always an area of dispute. Fiction targeted at adults does not need to be bright and shiny to maintain the viewer/player's attention.

[Damien Neil]

Ugh. Candy Cats? What's next, Smurfs? Baby rabbits? Do you start with wooden swords?

I've fought more orcs than I can count. Big orcs, little orcs, green orcs, brown orcs, solitary orcs, packs of orcs, orc thralls, orc pawns, orc warriors, orc kings, and Orcus.

But I've never fought a cat that takes a round out from fighting to wash its face. It made me laugh. It amused me. And then I killed it, but what the hey.

Do you DQ8 lovers (which seems to be almost everyone!) not care about setting at all, or is the rest of the game simply so good you look past it? Were this a book or a novel done in the same style, would you still like it?

Sure. I love good settings. Which is why I'm half sick to death of heroes who smolder with generic rage as they fight get another damned grim battle against the forces of darkness. Been there. Done that. Got the Hawaiian shirt, Vorpal Blade, and GDSM to prove it.

DQ8 has a fun setting for me. (Hey, Tom, you can hate me now!) It's bright, cheerful, and there's just something endlessly entertaining about being attacked by a pair of bell peppers on a skewer. (Capsichums!) No, I wouldn't want all my games to look like this. Fortunately, there's not much chance of that.

[Damien Neil]

The setting doesn't have to be serious, but it would help. I don't get why this is always an area of dispute. Fiction targeted at adults does not need to be bright and shiny to maintain the viewer/player's attention.

But it does have to be dull and dingy to maintain the player's sense of masculinity?

[Angie Gallant]

Angie- You really want to get feminist defending Dragon Warrior 8?

I play games that are about sex, even if they are mostly an enormous waste of time. I just happen to think that a minigame about it in a non-sex game is pretty inane.

So yeah, feminism? NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

[Jasper]

Why does setting need to be serious?
I'm not at all saying setting needs to be serious. I like any number of games with silly setting. Psychonauts. Star Control 2. Freedom Force. Zelda. Cthulhu...

However, the cutesy "disney reject" (great phrase, thanks Ben!) stuff seen in alot of Japanese RPGs simply does nothing for me. I find it bland and dull -- which is a pretty bad knock when there are a ton of good games around that also have a setting I like. Such silly foes also immediately imply to me that they're disposable, serving only to feed an XP grind. Somehow I'm guessing that the plot point villains aren't Candy Cats.

So honestly, are you trying to say you think the DQ8 setting is good? Or just that I shouldn't care about setting?

[Jasper]

When you see how lovingly rendered and over the top goofy so many of the (huge number of) monsters are - it's hard not to forgive the style.
That might be enough... It's not like the style completely puts me off, especially if the silliness is handled well (which it often is not). Besides, I'd like to find something engaging that I can play with my kids, without the overdose of violence that accompanies so many games.

[Luke M]

The setting doesn't have to be serious, but it would help. I don't get why this is always an area of dispute. Fiction targeted at adults does not need to be bright and shiny to maintain the viewer/player's attention.

Au contraire, the setting, characters, and plot don't have to be serious and "manly" to hold the attention of adult gamers, either. This is an area of disupte because different gamers have different tastes. I like the style of Dragon Quest 8 quite a bit; it's creative, fluffy, and so over the top as to not be taken seriously. But I can appreciate a well designed violent/gritty/tough guy setting just as much as a well designed cute/cartoonish setting. You don't care for DQ8's style; that's fine, your call. However, you don't speak for all adult gamers when you say this (though you probably speak for the majority).

I guess I'm just not manly enough to appreciate all the tough guy badass games released these days. You know, all the white boy thug culture and street racing games, don't forget the badass angry antihero games, regularly pushed out the door to the masses (pending design by focus group and committee). Most of them just feel like they're milking a popular cliché. Superficial, and, well, at least to me, manufactured. No soul. Not that kiddie style games can't be just as bad; I'm sure Pokemon and its ilk have sold at least enough to keep up with tough guy games, and it's quite clear that they're made for the sake of sales to a big, easy demographic anyway. But, all that said, I prefer not to limit myself to only one type of game setting: any setting, creative enough, authentic enough, appealing enough to me, and I'll like it. Any limit imposed will only result in missing out on some great games.

[Damien Neil]

Somehow I'm guessing that the plot point villains aren't Candy Cats.

Plot point villains include a deranged water elemental with a concussion, a mole Elvis whose bad singing causes his own minions to attack him, a flying treasure chest with teeth, and of course the Big Bad: An evil clown.

[Nick Walter]

Ugh. Candy Cats? What's next, Smurfs? Baby rabbits? Do you start with wooden swords?

There's Bunnicorns. Angry rabbits with little horns. Cute as can be.


How utterly epic and enthralling.


It's cartoony and doesn't take itself too seriously. Which is the tone that DQ8 uses throughout. It isn't epic, but then lots of very good things in this world aren't epic. There are alternative paths to fun that don't necessarily try to climb mount epic.


Do you DQ8 lovers (which seems to be almost everyone!) not care about setting at all, or is the rest of the game simply so good you look past it?


I care about setting. It's a great setting and done really really well. Just because you only like dead serious settings with no tongue-in-cheek aspects doesn't mean that other people can't appreciate it.


Were this a book or a novel done in the same style, would you still like it?


Absolutely.


Hmmm, or perhaps I should look at it from another angle... How well does it play along with a 6 year old kid? Are the cutscenes voiced as well as subtitled? Is there a large level grinding gamer tax?

No idea about the six year old kid, the cutscene voices are a perfect match for the cartoony settings, and the levelling up isn't too onerous.

[Ben Sones]

The setting doesn't have to be serious, but it would help. I don't get why this is always an area of dispute. Fiction targeted at adults does not need to be bright and shiny to maintain the viewer/player's attention.

No one said that it does. But by the same token, are adults incapable of appreciating whimsy? Apparently, some are.

Do you DQ8 lovers (which seems to be almost everyone!) not care about setting at all, or is the rest of the game simply so good you look past it?

The two aren't mutually exclusive. I care about setting a lot, and the setting of DQVIII is one of the game's strong points. Just because you hate the idea of a game that isn't deadly serious, that doesn't mean that everyone else does, too. I think the whimsical monsters are great. They are also the opposite of "disposable," since a lot of thought obviously went into creating them, and their quirky attributes make the combat a lot more interesting than it otherwise might be. Some of them are so clever that I laughed out loud upon first encountering them.

But the rest of the game is that good, too.

Edited for speeling

[Jason McMaster]

Funny, I feel the same way about threesome minigames.

What game is that?

[curst]

Let's be real - what RPG doesn't have a whole slew of monsters that serve no purpose other than to add to the levelling grind?

Fallout has rats and scorpions and unkempt raiders. Not exactly epic in my book.

Baldur's Gate has kobolds, skeletons, spiders, the occasional thief. EPIC.

Diablo has... well, almost every single monster in it that isn't a boss strikes me as totally disposable.

Final Fantasy X starts off with me fighting what look like the individual scales of that boss monster in the distance. Not exactly enthralling.

Ultima's 5-8, my favorites in what is probably my favorite RPG series ever, throw everything your way from orcs to skeletons to swarms of flies to giant bats.

Might & Magic 6 mostly started off with just goblins and spiders, and held off on the skeletons and orcs until later, but I'm sure 3DO only did that because they knew just how much everyone loves fighting goblins and spiders!

So I find nothing surprising about Dragon Quest 8's decision to answer all of these with the adorable slimes, the actually-kind-of-creepy-looking candy cats, tap-dancing devils, hipsters, mecha-birds, capsichums, and axe-wielding dinosaurs. I'll take disposable monsters that at least demonstrate some degree of creativity over kobolds and orcs, even if they look cartoony.

[TriggerHappy]

What game is that?

God of War

[Jasper]

Just because you only like dead serious settings with no tongue-in-cheek aspects doesn't mean that other people can't appreciate it.
Just because you hate the idea of a game that isn't deadly serious, that doesn't mean that everyone else does, too.
Apparently a quick list of some of my favorite games that aren't deadly serious wasn't clear enough to make the point that I don't require games to be deadly serious.

Hey guys? I don't require games to be deadly serious. Aim your barbs at someone else.

[Jasper]

Let's be real - what RPG doesn't have a whole slew of monsters that serve no purpose other than to add to the levelling grind?

Fallout has rats and scorpions and unkempt raiders. Not exactly epic in my book.
There is a world of difference between the randomly generated foes in Fallout or KotOR, and the infinite supply of "every couple of steps" random foes in RPGs like FF7.

The random foes in Fallout were not there just to generate XP.

[Ben Sones]

There is a world of difference between the randomly generated foes in Fallout or KotOR, and the infinite supply of "every couple of steps" random foes in RPGs like FF7.

That's true, and that is also one of my most common beefs with console RPGs. DQVIII is better than most in this regard, though--the random combats are less frequent than they are in many other games, and the game seems balanced more for non-grinders (in fact, people who enjoy grinding have complained that the game gets too easy for them).

And I'll take back the deadly serious remark, but your characterization of the DQVIII monsters as "Disney rejects" is unfair and inaccurate. They are more weird than cutesy, and Disney wishes it had as much creativity as the folks who came up with all the DQVIII monsters.

[RickH]

Speaking of grinding, has anyone else had their ass handed to them repeatedly on Princess Minnie's Island? Worse than the stuff on the new continent by far.

[Kevin McGuire]

There is a world of difference between the randomly generated foes in Fallout or KotOR, and the infinite supply of "every couple of steps" random foes in RPGs like FF7.


I think the key difference is that in Fallout, and most PC games, you can see the enemies before you fight them. and usually avoid some if not all. You've got more control over when you fight, even if the total number of fights is the same. I'm not sure why, but it makes a huge difference in terms of how "annoying" combat can be.

While more recent console RPG's like Xenosaga are a bit better in that you can see fights before they happen, you still don't seem to get a lot of choice: most combats are essentially mandatory. This is one convention from the early glory days of console RPG's that I'd like to see die.

[Matthew Gallant]

I think the key difference is that in Fallout, and most PC games, you can see the enemies before you fight them.
That's not true. Well, it's not true for Fallout. Well, some of the time anyway. You would get encounters on the big map.

[Qenan]

I think of the animation in DQVIII as lighthearted. There's no attempt to scare you, or make the game depressing and dark. The monsters are cool, in a goofy way. I enjoy that. (Doesn't mean I want all my RPGs to be that way.)

One of the advantages of DQVIII is that my six year old can sit with me and even help play and not get spooked out. That's a feature, for me.

[Kevin McGuire]

That's not true. Well, it's not true for Fallout. Well, some of the time anyway. You would get encounters on the big map.

Certainly true for the overland travel, but for all of the towns and dungeons (the majority of the combat in the game), you could see the rats, or robots, or whatever, and that somehow made it better. For me. The overland encounters were also pretty limited - if I remember correctly, you could travel for a day or two without getting an encounter, and you could even modify that with a ranger skill of some sort.

[Jasper]

Outside of overland travel, I don't recall any random foes in Fallout at all. I had as many overland encounters in Fallout as I've had inside of 10 minutes in some console RPGs. Being able to see them coming certainly didn't make them easier -- since you couldn't see them coming at all!

Fallout was about exactly how I liked it -- foes should have a purpose, and a place in the world and/or plot. It's definitely good to hear this sort of gamer tax is toned down in DQ8, and that you needn't grind to win.

[Ben]

I don't play enough RPGs to really count anymore, but DQ8 seems to be pretty standard for random battles. I'd be hard pressed to identify which of the 3 current generation jRPGs I've played(FFX, Xenosaga, DQ8) had the highest incidence. I've heard horror stories about SMT:Nocturne and Skies of Arcadia, of course, but all the comments about DQ8's low rate seem at odds with my experience. And the increased difficulty of the average random battle, contrary to reviews, is not due to enemy strength but rather the difficulty of healing. FF games have just as difficult battles, but you can buy MP and life restoring items at any shop in the game.

Anyway, for all it's faults I still adore it and I'm going to go beat the shit out of those faggoty little bells so I can put more points into Jessica's sex appeal.

[Unicorn McGriddle]

Nocturne -- like previous SMT games -- has a ton of random encounters, and not only that, but if they get you when the moon if full, you can really be caught with your pants down. Har har, no seriously, the bad guys are stronger when the moon's full. Combine that with limited saves and health/mana attrition, and you have a game that at times can be frustrating.

I haven't finished it yet, so I don't have a final word on it for you, but what I've seen so far does a lot to justify the high opinion of the game that I see everywhere. Constant random encounters aren't my favorite gameplay element in general, but I've enjoyed games that rely heavily on random encounters and Nocturne's one of them.

[SmokeyNecrosis]

Oh, we are forgetting that one of the more impressive features of DQ8 is that you need to go to a church and make a confession to a priest in order to save the game. Isnt there a Constitutional provision requiring the separation of church and game?

Plus, the main dude looks like a little alter boy and thats kind of a creepy looking priest that you have to confess to. I'm wondering if there isnt a little something extra going on in that confessional booth.

[Nick Walter]

Oh, we are forgetting that one of the more impressive features of DQ8 is that you need to go to a church and make a confession to a priest in order to save the game. Isnt there a Constitutional provision requiring the separation of church and game?

Plus, the main dude looks like a little alter boy and thats kind of a creepy looking priest that you have to confess to. I'm wondering if there isnt a little something extra going on in that confessional booth.

I chuckled at the confession thing too. The androgynous protagonist problem is easily solved by putting Yangus in the front of the line up. Then you can watch a fat bandit run around the landscape. Yangus has more HP and defense than the hero anyway, so it makes sense to put him in front.

[Gendal]

The one thing I really hated about this game was the scrolling text. It... was... so... damn... slow... it... drove... me... up... the... wall.. and... right... back... down... again.

Why the hell all JRPG games feel they have to do this is beyond me. Most, like DQ8, let you cancel this marching progression of letters, but after doing this for the billionth time it starts to grate, and at best still feels sluggish. It gets even better when you end up picking a response you don't want because you where hurriedly pouding the buttons to skip ahead. I read lines at a time, not letters at a time.

And the whole save/load process was just stupidly slow. I am wrapping up playing Shadowhearts for the first time, and it's save/load screens are lightening quick in comparison. I am not talking about how long the game actually takes to save, just how long it takes you to get to that point with stupid and unecessary yes/no questions and/or slowling scrowling text.

In retrospect this sounds like such a small issue, but it really gets under my skin while playing it. Enough to almost ruin the experiance somehow.

[Moore]

The one thing I really hated about this game was the scrolling text. It... was... so... damn... slow... it... drove... me... up... the... wall.. and... right... back... down... again.

Why the hell all JRPG games feel they have to do this is beyond me. Most, like DQ8, let you cancel this marching progression of letters, but after doing this for the billionth time it starts to grate, and at best still feels sluggish. It gets even better when you end up picking a response you don't want because you where hurriedly pouding the buttons to skip ahead. I read lines at a time, not letters at a time.

And the whole save/load process was just stupidly slow. I am wrapping up playing Shadowhearts for the first time, and it's save/load screens are lightening quick in comparison. I am not talking about how long the game actually takes to save, just how long it takes you to get to that point with stupid and unecessary yes/no questions and/or slowling scrowling text.

In retrospect this sounds like such a small issue, but it really gets under my skin while playing it. Enough to almost ruin the experiance somehow.

don't use a button to skip text if you dont want to accidentally select a wrong option. just press left or right.

[Gendal]

don't use a button to skip text if you dont want to accidentally select a wrong option. just press left or right.

That works for DQ8, and then only some of the time I found. Either way it was still really sluggish.

[TriggerHappy]

That works for DQ8, and then only some of the time I found. Either way it was still really sluggish.

I've never, ever had a problem using left or right on the Analog stick to move to the next page of dialogue. I'm about 10 hours in.

[Gendal]

I've never, ever had a problem using left or right on the Analog stick to move to the next page of dialogue. I'm about 10 hours in.

You can't skip text in quite a few places, save/load screens at the church being just one. I finished it around ~80 hours, and thinking about going after the dragovian? section next.

[mtkafka]

Also, DQ8 possibly has the best voiceacting in ANY game I've ever played. I am so used to the cheesy Final Fantasy voices from FFX, this is like Academy Award material in comparison.

etc

[interman]

If only it'd show up in norwegian stores.

[Ben Sones]

Also, DQ8 possibly has the best voiceacting in ANY game I've ever played. I am so used to the cheesy Final Fantasy voices from FFX, this is like Academy Award material in comparison.

etc

It does have very good voice acting. I especially like the actor who does the Hero. ;)

[Kunikos]

that's a laugh riot, guv

[madkevin]

COR BLIMEY!

[zabuni]

Actually, it's more like:

http://img491.imageshack.us/img491/8324/corblimey2kb.jpg
COR BLIMEY!

[Ergo]

The guy doing Yangus' voice is a dead ringer for Bob Hoskins, or it actually IS Bob Hoskins.

[Jasper]

I picked this up to see what all the buzz was about, and just got to that "Cor Blimey". Had me chuckling, and the British voice actors are quite good; pity The Hero isn't voiced.

Anyone know what sort of accent was used in the Japanese version? What's Japanese for Cor Blimey? ;-)

[Ex-S Woo]

The Japanese version doesn't have voices . The US version has an altered soundtrack too, I believe.

[Nick Walter]

I picked this up to see what all the buzz was about, and just got to that "Cor Blimey". Had me chuckling, and the British voice actors are quite good; pity The Hero isn't voiced.

Anyone know what sort of accent was used in the Japanese version? What's Japanese for Cor Blimey? ;-)

I believe the Japanese version was unvoiced. Completely text. Later on in the American version there are some short cutscenes with no voiceover.

On the topic of the voice work, whoever did the voice of Ishmari had a special talent. For making me want to take human life. What an annoying character.

[Warning]

On the topic of the voice work, whoever did the voice of Ishmari had a special talent. For making me want to take human life. What an annoying character.
Was that the breathy, effeminate guy who grants wishes? If so then, yeah, I wanted to shove an icepick in my ear after a minute of him.

But otherwise I love the voice acting and the music. I understand the Japanese version didn't have symphonic music which is a shame. The music is really very good (though a bit repetitive).

[Qenan]

The Japanese version doesn't have voices . The US version has an altered soundtrack too, I believe.

Yikes. The voices in the U.S. version are terrific.

[PeterK]

POSSIBLE MINOR SPOILER





I'm having a problem with my Zoom list. I've visited the West Trodain Church and the little blue circle for it shows up on my world map, but it doesn't show up on the list when I cast Zoom. Has anyone else had this problem? I'm wondering if it's because I visited it before visiting Trodain and maybe the game got confused somehow.

Last night I fought those four creatures that do a Voltron-like transformation. I love the monsters in this game.

[Matthew Gallant]

The Zoom list scrolls, even though the window gives no indication of there being another page. Just push right.

[PeterK]

Yeah, I found that out earlier when I couldn't reach Ascantha. I've scrolled the list around everywhich way, but the West Trodain Church doesn't show up.

[Tom McNamara]

Picked this up earlier this week, and I've logged about 12 hours. Initial combat difficulty is pretty steep, and the flow the game really doesn't get a good head of steam until you get to the abbey. Other than that, though, it has delightful artwork, the music is great (although a little repetitive), and I wish the random encounters were just a wee bit less frequent. I also wish that people I add to my party would actually start out with a few skills.

I'm also rather annoyed that I apparently can't sell anything, because almost everything seems to be an alchemy ingredient. I sold someone's starter weapon almost immediately, only to find out a little later that I could have combined it with something else to make a powerful weapon that I wouldn't have access to until much later in the game. That rather annoys and makes me paranoid about vendoring anything. And most of the recipes I've come across are hopelessly vague. On the other hand, my party bag seems to be bottomless, which is a nice touch. One other minor annoyance: "Organizing" my bag shouldn't mean throwing everything I'm not wearing into the party bag. When you're going up against a boss, it's a real pain to move all those herbs one at a time to four different characters.

[Glycerine]

Just finished it last night with about 80 hours logged. Fantastic game! Best console RPG I've played in years. I'm torn between taking a break and playing something else or continuing on to get the second ending and do the Dragovian trials.

Glycerine

[Nick Walter]

Just finished it last night with about 80 hours logged. Fantastic game! Best console RPG I've played in years. I'm torn between taking a break and playing something else or continuing on to get the second ending and do the Dragovian trials.

Glycerine

80 hours?!?!?

I've logged over that and I just got to Arcadia.

[Jab2565]

I'm at around 38 hours, just finshed at arcadia and moving on from there. Yeah the only things I sell are copies of items, so I always have one of everything. Dhoulmagus part 2 kicked my ass for 3 days straight.
I got hero with courage and boomerang, yangus : courage and scythe, jessica whip and sex appeal, and angelo sword and charsmia. Best part is that when I first got the boat I got completely lost and had no idea where to go, so I explored alot of the map and got town locations to alot of spots.

[Nick Walter]

Wow, Apparently I'm very slow.

I do have some bad habits like running against a wall to get the alchemy wait periods over with. I'll also walk away from the PS2 for 15 minutes if I want the ingame time to change from night->day or vice versa. Come to think of it, I'll also leave the game running when I go to change my sons diaper, or cook dinner, etc. So that's probably where the big discrepancy in times comes into play.

[Kitsune]

Wow, Apparently I'm very slow.

I do have some bad habits like running against a wall to get the alchemy wait periods over with. I'll also walk away from the PS2 for 15 minutes if I want the ingame time to change from night->day or vice versa. Come to think of it, I'll also leave the game running when I go to change my sons diaper, or cook dinner, etc. So that's probably where the big discrepancy in times comes into play.

You know you can go to the Inn and make time go directly to day or night without staying in a bed for the night, right?

A good idea for keeping older items around is using the idea is to think about what the item is made of and what it could be boiled down to make other things with? Does it have something unique like a wing or a scale? Is it made out of a certain metal or have magic properties? There are quite a few items its just best to sell and I think its possible to get the idea of which are which just by getting used to game's logic.

Also, I'm so immensely pleased that this game did well over there and the graphics makeover has allowed many previously unimpressed people to try it out!

Now if you'd only buy more of a game like Romancing Saga than Final Fantasy X-2, you'd be really sending what I consider the best message for translation to Japan.

Yeah, okay, so I don't have anything really specific to say, but I feel naked if I don't post about Dragon Quest at least once a week. ^_^

-Kitsune

[Glycerine]

* * * SPOILERS * * *

Just beat the Dragovian Lord last night, which is pretty much all you have to do to get the true ending. Most in my party were around 40-41, and he really didn't even put up much of a fight. I thought getting to him was more of a challenge, simply because almost all of the monsters are dangerous and have instant kill abilities. The ones that don't have anything like that can hit you with a desperate attack that will do over 300 damage in one hit.

Next step now is to take down all of his forms so I can get all of the Dragovian armor and sword. If they are as easy as he was, it shouldn't be a problem to get through the first few. I'm going for the armor, helmet, sword, upgraded alchemy pot, and finally the shield. After that I'll try for HEV and whatever is left.

Glycerine

[Jab2565]

So has anyone beaten rank A in the monster fights? My team got to the last round one guy left then lost. I have a blue cyclops, talos, and one of those robot things. Also I'm getting killed at that purple bird you fight.

[BDGE]

* * * SPOILERS * * *

Next step now is to take down all of his forms so I can get all of the Dragovian armor and sword. If they are as easy as he was, it shouldn't be a problem to get through the first few. I'm going for the armor, helmet, sword, upgraded alchemy pot, and finally the shield. After that I'll try for HEV and whatever is left.

Glycerine

I made it to the 6th dragovian boss before it became readilly apparent that I need more HP to survive the onslaught of a triple turn strike. Even equipping the best duds possible through alchemy, casinos, etc... two members fall every round, and the rez/heal requisite is practically futile. I never did spend much time grinding metal slimes though and I know my levels are under par for the challenge.

The first several dragovians weren't too bad though, they all present unique weaknesses to exploit, some have crippling spells that can be negated with special trinkets(anti-sleep/poison and such), but they are not totally necessary for victory. (I never bothered)

I'm only 1 armor piece away from getting Hero decked out in full dragovian gear, I'd squeal if he turned out looking like the old Luto/Erdrick from the NES games, but it'll probably end up being some Dragonball inspired ninja/samurai. I adore the setting of this optional area though, the cloudy peaks and winding cliffs are stunning.

Oh and I got Rank S in the monster arena pretty handily using a combination of golems that form some CRAZY HUGE GODZILLA GOLEM as a team attack. Took out the final teams in a single attempt.

[Lum]

Romancing Saga - wasn't that put out in the US by Square a few years back and had a completely unusable combat system? Or am I thinking of something else?

DQ8 is great. Once I got past the Dragonball Z-style graphics, it's oldschool RPG goodness. My party's in the 28-32 level range and is getting its tail kicked in the Dragon Graveyard at the moment.

[zabuni]

Lum, that was Unlimitied Saga. Romancing Saga is it's somewhat more playable, completely non-linear cousin.

[Kunikos]

Just got the first of the three notorius monsters captured... I think I have about 20 hours logged, I've been spreading my skill points around. Is that a mistake? About the only thing I don't spend it on is fists, with most points in one main weapon and a lesser amount in the others (such as hero level 20, with 13 sword, 13 spear, 20-something boomerang, 0 fist, and 11 courage).

[RickH]

you only get enough points to max out 3 skills if you level up completely.

[DanielElliot]

I think it's enough for 3.5 skills, so if you haven't been spreading around all of them for too long, you should be ok. Also, there's apparently a rare item you can farm that will give skill points, but I'm sure that's a real drag to do.

[Jason Lutes]

So, how does the frequency of random encounters in DQVIII compare to the frequency of random encounters in SMT: Nocturne? You guys make me want to try this game, but I gave up on SMT:N right quick due to the constant and tedious random fights. My tolerance for that crap has dropped significantly over the years.

[Jasper]

I haven't played SMT: Nocturne, but If you're worried about random encounters, I'd shy away from DQ8 -- that's what I've spent most of my time doing. I like the artwork, the characters, the voicework is awesome, and even the plot is ok. But there are indeed a ton of throwaway monsters with no reason to exist other than to give you XP and loot, they're everywhere once you step outside a town's gates, and there's no way to see them coming or avoid them.

There's apparently some skill for Yangus that'll help, but I've no idea how much it helps, and according to the FAQ you can't get it for quite a while anyway. Plus I get the distinct impression that if you miss out on the random encounters you won't have enough power to progress anyway.

Without all the random encounters I'd give DQ8 8/10, but as it is I'd give it 4/10. I played it one night, and doubt I'll pick it up again.

[Lizard_King]

There's apparently some skill for Yangus that'll help, but I've no idea how much it helps, and according to the FAQ you can't get it for quite a while anyway.
Your main character can get a no encounter skill at 28 Courage (Intrepid), and Yangus gets it at 33 Humanity (Padfoot). If memory serves, the hero's is more effective, but Yangus' was easier to get because you don't miss as much as if you don't focus on a weapon skill exclusively (at first) like with the pc. Both of these are temporary spells, but well worth it by the time you get them.
Plus I get the distinct impression that if you miss out on the random encounters you won't have enough power to progress anyway.
True, but I think most people have no difficulty levelling once you figured out (1)how to kill metal monsters and (2) where to find them. But if the early random encounters are a deal breaker, then it's probably not for you. Personally, I didn't mind as much as in other games because the combat seemed less of a jarring transition (FFX almost drove me insane with its broken glass), but then again, I stopped playing 2/3 through, and never picked it up again although I can't explain why.

[RickH]

. . . but then again, I stopped playing 2/3 through, and never picked it up again although I can't explain why.

I've done the same, it's an odd phenomenon, the loss of RPG momentum. I think mine was related to never feeling like I had enough time (at least an hour) to sit down and have a satisfying session. So all of a sudden, THUG looks pretty good.

[Kitsune]

I haven't played SMT: Nocturne, but If you're worried about random encounters, I'd shy away from DQ8 -- that's what I've spent most of my time doing. I like the artwork, the characters, the voicework is awesome, and even the plot is ok. But there are indeed a ton of throwaway monsters with no reason to exist other than to give you XP and loot, they're everywhere once you step outside a town's gates, and there's no way to see them coming or avoid them.

What the hell? No reason to exist. That's more than half the reason people play Dragon Quest and its one of the major selling points of the series - the battles are extremely awesome. Oh, and since DQV, you've been able to recruit monsters and in this game you can form a monster team that can be summoned to fight for three rounds or used in a sidequest monster coliseum. Since these monsters are tougher than usual, you can see and avoid them on the map. So their practical game use isn't just for loot or XP.

And is there a way to avoid them from the very first town in the game to the very end. You can buy holy water nearly everywhere and sprinkling reduces the encounter rate or completely nullifies depending on how strong the monsters are in relation to you.

And when you first start a fight, you can threaten monsters with each of your characters so that THEY run away. This is useful, because its a fast way other than running to avoid the fight and monsters have a higher chance of dropping their common or rare items when you do. (Pro DQ gamers use it to control which monsters they fight, and only gain exp/gold for the monsters that haven't run away.)

And as everyone else has mentioned you get the chance to completely stop most random encounters later in the game, though obviously that's somewhat dangerous. Though you can keep up by making sure you get ahold of rare and valuable items/weapons/armor or using tension/skills really well, or by doing sidequests.

In fact, that's one of the biggest misunderstandings about DQ. Since the original, you have never needed to grind to level up. Yuji Horii has always, always, always designed each game so that if you explore around you and try out things, you will be at the appropriate level to be able to win. Unless you have a certain hardcore purpose in mind (in which you use metal enemies to get the job done quickly), leveling up has happened as a matter of course, for doing what the game was designed to do. If you explore reasonably (you don't even have to do it much) you can play the entire game through without ever stopping for the express purpose of leveling up.

You do not play Dragon Quest just to follow a plot, that's a bonus or an extra, at most. You do not play it to roleplay some complex moral problem and decide how of an asshole or a saint you want to be. You do not play to dilly dally around with complex battle or growth systems.

Though the first DQ was the only game in the series to be completely non-linear, the rest give you the freedom to do what you want in a given radius. In DQVIII, it works like this: 1) Can explore everything before the gate barrier -> 2) Most of the current continent -> 3) The entire southern continent -> 4) Most of the eastern hemisphere -> 5) The bulk of western continent and lands -> 6) More of that continent -> 7) The entire world.

In each step, you're given hints by townspeople and such, and by your own exploring of what you can do. You don't just grind and fight if you're having problems with the waterfall. Go seek out the tough wandering monsters, earn some monster coins and sell them to help you out with a better sword, or the all-powerful wonder machine boomerang. Go do the sidequest with the old man at the top of the wonderful and use your rat's cheese attacks to take care of the monsters before the boss. Go search out the treasure chests, the contents are often very helpful and cool. Along any combination of these things, you will be at a reasonable level to pass it. The same is true for the rest of the game, there's always something else to explore.

More than any RPG series I've played, its easier to control the difficulty level in DQ. Exploiting very satisfying tactical plans pays off and you can do hella hard stuff at low levels. In fact, that's one of the reasons the game sells so well in Japan. Its made for both people who just don't want to have too hard of a time of fighting, but want it to be fun enough to do more than attack and for people who like to make their own challenges. Both exist in great quantities. I love doing stuff like going to the treasure cave near the thieves' town before you do anything at the abbey or for the king and then an entirely different cutscene plays when you meet the thief lady (so many name changes, I've been purposely vague) to reflect that. You can enter the western continent anyway you please and the cutscenes reflect that (there are different flows to plot depending on which place you start exploring at). You can visit Lapan House and get the tiger before you ever hear about a spoiled prince. Or vice versa.

Just walking around that luscious overworld invites finding what's hidden every nook and cranny for many a gamer now, but that's the way it has always been for the Dragon Quest faithful. That's why every town has lots of little goodies hidden in pots, or down wells (I love the hidden health club you can find in one, and the friendly monster in another, and the stuck slime king in another), or around obscure corners, or up ladders.

As has been pointed in this thread and others, the monsters have many unique abilities and animated meticulously with many creative and charming touches. Believe it or not, the monsters are the joy of the game.

So no they aren't just there to grind XP. They're the entire foundation of the game and one of its biggest selling points. If you can't get into it, fine, but you can't criticize a game for what you want it be, instead of looking at it for what it wants to be.

-Kitsune

[Jab2565]

My only real problem with the combat system is that boss fights seem to always be at a higher plateau then enemy fights regardless of level. I spent the last 3 days grinding enemies just so I have the level strength to survive against the bird boss in the dark world (purple one). The reason is that the boss was able to kill any member of my team if it attacked them twice in a row, and since bosses can attack twice per turn at that point it's very annoying. Plus I hate how every other boss it seems has the power to encase itself in ice, which for some strange reason removes all buffs from your party.

Outside of bosses, I like the combat system, when I'm exploring I always put on holy protection which sometimes means no fights for the few minutes it lasts. Still I'm finding dq8 alot easier to stand random battles then in games like SMT and the FF series.

Almost forgot, at the purple boss my team was lvl 36 35 33 35 hero yangus jessica angelo. And I won by pure luck.

[Kitsune]

My only real problem with the combat system is that boss fights seem to always be at a higher plateau then enemy fights regardless of level. I spent the last 3 days grinding enemies just so I have the level strength to survive against the bird boss in the dark world (purple one). The reason is that the boss was able to kill any member of my team if it attacked them twice in a row, and since bosses can attack twice per turn at that point it's very annoying. Plus I hate how every other boss it seems has the power to encase itself in ice, which for some strange reason removes all buffs from your party.

He, he. Did you realize while you were writing this out that you kind of your answered own question on a method to beat the bosses other than power-leveling? That means you have to plan for either a party member to die or all your protections to go away each turn, right? Is this your first Dragon Quest game or are you experienced with the series? By this point there's so much you can do to counter all this, there's no one real way to approach the problem you're having.

I'll tell you what I did.

1) The first time I was an alchemy fiend, so Kukule had so much defense he could barely be touched. I used him to support other characters and to whittle down the bird.

2) The second time, I had taken a more wholistic approach to skill development and used a combination of bouncing that spell back at the bird and first strike skills.

3) The third time, I equipped Jessica with the weaker knife that hits two per turn and focused on supporting her only, with the other characters not even attacking.

4) The fourth time I beat him using revolving tension (revolving tension is when you choose one character to build tension either once for a slightly enhanced attack or all the way and every other character supports them). Yeah its risky, but no danger = no reward. When I did this, I beat the bird on the fourth or fifth turn.

5) The fifth time I used lucky tension, that's when you build up lots of tension solely for a support spell and you don't do anything but defend until you find a round where you can pull it off, then you go banzai in the next round. Rinse and repeat.

Except for the second time, I won at against the bird the very first time I encountered. And yes, I have played through DQVIII five times. I usually like playing underleveled so I was usually at level 28 or 29. BTW, the fourth time I didn't equip my party members with a single weapon throughout the entire game. Its doable, though I do agree sometimes when you're new to DQ, I can see how you would think there's no other way out.

-Kitsune

[PeterK]

What do you mean by having one character support another?

[Moore]

Heal them and shit

[RickH]

Probably buffing, too. Yangus is very effective when his attacks are doubled.

[Nick Walter]

Probably buffing, too. Yangus is very effective when his attacks are doubled.

Yangus? I find him the weak sister of my party. The Hero has better HP, attack, defense, and special attacks. Maybe I made the wrong choice specializing Yangus in axes. Factor in the low MP and Yangus is unexciting.

[PeterK]

So in Kitsune's third option, the other characters just cast healing and buff spells on Jessica the whole time? Would they cast healing even if she had full health at the beginning of the round? And how do you keep the monster from attacking the other characters?

[Jab2565]

This is my first dq game, I had the hero with boomerang, yangus with scythe, jessica whip, angelo sword. Had the same problem fighting dhoulmagus part 2.

[Jasper]

What the hell? No reason to exist. That's more than half the reason people play Dragon Quest and its one of the major selling points of the series - the battles are extremely awesome.
That's right, no reason to exist. They're just random encounters randomly pasted in. They have no purpose other than to throw themselves upon your sword, and apparently only your sword.

And is there a way to avoid them from the very first town in the game to the very end. You can buy holy water nearly everywhere and sprinkling reduces the encounter rate or completely nullifies depending on how strong the monsters are in relation to you.
Your definition of avoid and mine obviously differ. I'd wager most of your time would still be spent dealing with random encounters.

And when you first start a fight, you can threaten monsters with each of your characters so that THEY run away.
Yes, I know. With the PS2's slow loading this isn't appreciably faster than just killing weak monsters, and doesn't work upon more threatening monsters.

And as everyone else has mentioned you get the chance to completely stop most random encounters later in the game, though obviously that's somewhat dangerous. Though you can keep up by making sure you get ahold of rare and valuable items/weapons/armor or using tension/skills really well, or by doing sidequests.
Right, as I said. But there seems to be agreement that you'll have to makeup what you skip later. I want to not have to spend most of my time fighting random encounters.

In fact, that's one of the biggest misunderstandings about DQ. Since the original, you have never needed to grind to level up. Yuji Horii has always, always, always designed each game so that if you explore around you and try out things, you will be at the appropriate level to be able to win.
News flash Kitsune -- that is grinding. If exploration didn't mostly consist of an endless string of random encounters it'd be fun, but it does. Not everyone likes your favorite game, nor is willing to pay as much gamer tax as you.

[snip]
In each step, you're given hints by townspeople and such, and by your own exploring of what you can do. You don't just grind and fight if you're having problems with the waterfall.
Right, you grind and fight whereever you go, and if you avoid it you'll be behind the power curve.

It's great that you guys like it, but I find it dull and well worse than most PC RPGs -- and it's all due to the preponderance of random encounters. Considering Jason said that he too was leery of such gamer tax, I figured it was worth warning him -- I sure wish someone had given me a better warning as to just how onerus the random encounters were. Not everyone has as much time to dispose of gaming as you.

Go seek out the tough wandering monsters, earn some monster coins and sell them to help you out with a better sword, or the all-powerful wonder machine boomerang. Go do the sidequest with the old man at the top of the wonderful and use your rat's cheese attacks to take care of the monsters before the boss. Go search out the treasure chests, the contents are often very helpful and cool. Along any combination of these things, you will be at a reasonable level to pass it. The same is true for the rest of the game, there's always something else to explore.
Kistsune, I did those things, I went exploring, and that's exactly the slew of every couple of step random encounters I hate.

More than any RPG series I've played, its easier to control the difficulty level in DQ.
You've got me confused with someone else. I don't think DQ8 was hard.

I love doing stuff like going to the treasure cave near the thieves' town before you do anything at the abbey or for the king and then an entirely different cutscene plays when you meet the thief lady (so many name changes, I've been purposely vague) to reflect that. You can enter the western continent anyway you please and the cutscenes reflect that (there are different flows to plot depending on which place you start exploring at). You can visit Lapan House and get the tiger before you ever hear about a spoiled prince. Or vice versa.
[snip: extensive elaboration]
That's all great, and part of why I'd rate it highly if it weren't for the random encounters.

[Nick Walter]

That's right, no reason to exist. They're just random encounters randomly pasted in. They have no purpose other than the throw themselves upon your sword, and apparently only your sword.


This is a staple of the RPG genre though. With a good combat system, random encounters are quite an enjoyable mechanic.

It's okay if that's not your cup of tea but you have to recognize that this mechanic is widespread and popular.

[TriggerHappy]

News flash Kitsune -- that is grinding. If exploration didn't mostly consist of an endless string of random encounters it'd be fun, but it does. Not everyone likes your favorite game, nor is willing to pay as much gamer tax as you.

You and I have very different definitions of grinding I guess. Grinding to me is when your goal is to fight. In DQ8 you get random encounters on the way to a chest off in the distance, or some cave off in the distance, etc. The goal isn't to fight, but to explore. Fighting just happens on the way.

[Jasper]

Nick, I do recognize it's wide spread and popular, especially in "Japanese style RPGs", which is why I didn't bring it up until Jason asked. I was convinced to try it after assurances that the random encounters "weren't so bad", and thought I'd make it clear that someone expressely complaining about random encounters might not like it because there are alot of random encounters -- even if it's less than some other RPGs.

[Kitsune]

PeterK, yeah sometimes you want to cast a cure spell even when they aren't hurt.

You can make sure Jessica is attacked the most by putting her in the front. Its not as pervasive as past games, but DQVIII still follows the rule that the person in front tends to get attacked the most.

Like pfreak said, and you probably know, the bosses will periodically wipe out all your support, so the pattern for this type of strategy is getting in a couple of well-timed strong hits (and being a little lucky). The bird can go down really quickly, since its high defense and low HP.

You can help your other characters by taking advantage of what you think might go on next round, re-equiping equipment with the best support effects in each round.

You can also make sure they stay alive by putting them an appropriate auto battle setting. Think of the difference between manual and auto battle as not as control setting, but an existential one. Manual is destiny from the gods (you), auto is free will. Characters can react to what happens within the attack round making decisions based on what the monster(s) do instead of deciding before the round begins and they will also sometimes try surprising strategies that give you new ideas.

Of course you can't support as well when you do this, but its a moment by moment decision. You might also think of going kamikaze and just have Jessica fight to the bitter end while the other three characters sacrifice themselves.

Pfreak, specializing in boomerangs won't kill you for boss battles, but its more of an exploration skill than a monster-hunter skill, since it helps so much in thinning out the herds. There are no wrong decisions for the skill allocation though.

One of the small downsides of Dragon Quest games (no game is perfect, even though I sometimes feel DQ games get very close! :D) is that though the game is great with indirect teaching on how to approach it, there's usually not enough to very beginners to teach them how to plan for any kind of DQ situation. Since this is the eighth game in the series I've played and umpteenth time throw one of these games, I knew if I could make or acquire item that restored magic points easily, it would be a great boon later on. Thus, I spent time at the casino to earn lots of coins for the magic water thinking it might create something great with the alchemy pot later on. All I have to say is once you get the chance to buy Leaves of the World Tree, wow, did that ever pay off. So thinking of stuff like that always helps before you even know there's going to be a dark world bird. Unfortunately, some of that is just being familiar of what you can expect to run against in a Dragon's Quest!

Do you guys use/did you find the tambourine? I don't like using it, but a lot of people do.

BTW, did you guys know that if you go to a boss the second time around, after losing once, there's a special dialogue where the boss will gloat about the first time they beat you? And that you can beat the first form of Clown Man Extraordinaire, lose to the second, come back and you only have to fight the second? And that if you beat the extra bosses with nothing but your bare hands, there's also a special dialogue?

Along that line, do you guys go and visit you-know-who at the spring periodically?

Also, I'm not trying to undermine anyone's obvious intelligence, but I see a lot of people overlook this: you do know that tension affects nearly everything, including status inducing/raising/lowering attacks, the secondary effects of attacks (I believe you get a higher chance to steal with Yangus if you raise his tension first, for instance) and healing spells, right? And that bosses unlike many RPGs, can be made to fall into status effects? Hell, one time I put Big Bad Clown Man to sleep by accident. ^_^

-Kitsune

[Dirt]

Is Dragon Warrior/Quest VII still worth playing?

[farley2k]

That's right, no reason to exist. They're just random encounters randomly pasted in. They have no purpose other than to throw themselves upon your sword, and apparently only your sword.



Out of curiosity what RPG doesn't have that? Even ones where you can see the enemy - Knights of the Old Republic for example - are full of enemies which are just there to level you up to face the final boss.

Maybe I don't understand what you mean.

[BDGE]

Do you guys use/did you find the tambourine? I don't like using it, but a lot of people do.

I think it is called the 'Timbrel of Tension' in the US version, and I found them(have 2) an extremely vital asset to my combat routine, particularly against the endgame optional bosses.

For the bulk of the game I made Jessica and Angelo my healing bitches forcing stave points on both from the outset. An unpopular choice, but having so many rez and heal options available(with near limitless MP pools) made the adventure a pretty smooth ride; so smooth that I generally spammed holy water and Hero's 'remove encounter' spell for much of the second half. Of course it gets pretty slow not having much in the way of offense for those two. Many a turn was spent tossing out garbage attacks/skills when they had no more healing/buffing to do for a round.

Going with Axes for Yangus is a really good choice. His headsplitter debuff is pretty useful the entire game, and a tension boosted Parrallax is absolutely devastating to pretty much anything.

[Jab2565]

I know about those 2nd conversations ... I think I had to fight every boss twice except for the giant mole and genon. I've gone to the springs a few times. I did use tension on genon and got over 1000 damage with yangus.
About tension, can all the characters psyche up to 100? So far the only character I got up 100 once was jessica. Yangus only seems to go up to 50.

[BDGE]

Is Dragon Warrior/Quest VII still worth playing?

Probably my least favorite in the franchise, but still woefully addictive and charming in it's own unique fashion. The dated visuals are a downer post-DQ8, and there are some progression qualms I wish were sorted out(unlabeled island warps tested my patience during the various backtracking rituals). It'll keep you busy for a long while if you strive for more DQ lovin though.

pfreak: Hitting 100 tension is a random thing once you hit level 20 or 30 I think. Everyone can do it, but it's all probability.

[PeterK]

Kitsune: Thanks for explaining that. Just to clarify, I'm not having much trouble with the game so far, though I haven't reached the bird thing yet. I just wanted to understand what you were describing.

I do wish the party order had a larger effect. I have Yangus in the front and Jessica in the back, and it doesn't seem like Yangus gets hit that much more than she does, though maybe I'm noticing it more when she gets hit because of her low health. Is there a concept of aggro with the monsters?

[Jason Lutes]

Thanks for the warning, Jasper, I appreciate it. I think I'll hold off and hope the game got a high enough production run to show up in bargain bins down the road.


You do not play Dragon Quest just to follow a plot, that's a bonus or an extra, at most. You do not play it to roleplay some complex moral problem and decide how of an asshole or a saint you want to be. You do not play to dilly dally around with complex battle or growth systems.
So, then, why do you play it?

[Lum]

Because it's fun?

I had a bit of problem with Dhoulmagus II as well but I was under the "expected" level at that point. I finally realized it was a battle of attrition and kept casting buff spells knowing that they'd be dispelled. Each time he dispelled a buff was one less attack. Hero and Angelo were full time healers, Yangus and Jessica doled out the beats. It took FOREVER (and Yangus was having to siphon mana out to Hero near the end) but it finally worked.

The battle in the Dragon Graveyard is kicking my tail - there's no "recharge" point that I can tell beforehand, so I have to fight my way through tons of tough lizards first. Oh well, at least I'm getting XP on the way back...

[zabuni]

Desert Chapel?

[Moore]

Thanks for the warning, Jasper, I appreciate it. I think I'll hold off and hope the game got a high enough production run to show up in bargain bins down the road.


So, then, why do you play it?


Because you enjoy the doof-ass monsters and you actually ENJOY the combat. IMO the series is WAAAY better portable and in 2d (thank you, sony) but dq8 is fun fun fun.

[Jab2565]

I just got to leopold and he kicked my ass. Going to try him again later now that I got the legendary sword and that armor for 78 medals.

[DanielElliot]

I just jumped back into the game after reading this thread, after a break of several months. It's great that you can always ask your party members what you were supposed to be doing.

I can't get the hang of the alchemy pot. I've made a few cheeses and done recipes I find on bookshelves, but haven't really discovered anything good on my own. Before I go to a FAQ, is the thing really worth it? Are there some uber items you can only get through it?

[Nick Walter]

I just jumped back into the game after reading this thread, after a break of several months. It's great that you can always ask your party members what you were supposed to be doing.

I can't get the hang of the alchemy pot. I've made a few cheeses and done recipes I find on bookshelves, but haven't really discovered anything good on my own. Before I go to a FAQ, is the thing really worth it? Are there some uber items you can only get through it?

I generally steer clear of FAQs unless stuck but a good alchemy faq is handy as heck for DQ8. I'm just not patient enough to wait out a lot of trial and error attempts in the alchemy pot to see what + what = what. So a FAQ to lets me know what the best things I can currently make are is very welcome.

Alchemy seem to provide better equipment than available in the stores in lots of areas of the game. Most of my characters are wearing one or two items from the pot.

[BDGE]

I can't get the hang of the alchemy pot. I've made a few cheeses and done recipes I find on bookshelves, but haven't really discovered anything good on my own. Before I go to a FAQ, is the thing really worth it? Are there some uber items you can only get through it?

You'll find recipes throughout the game, usually tucked away in bookshelves that you can refer to anytime in the menu. A faq will of course negate their usefulness, but often the "good" recipes don't appear until pretty late in the quest, so if you're serious about this stuff planning ahead with a faq helps. The alchemy pot isn't necessary to finish the game by any means, but taking the time to use and abuse it will reap some pretty hefty rewards.

I generally kept 'something' brewing in the pot at all available times, even if that meant turning two weak herbs into a stronger version during the downtime between serious equipment mixes. I used to cheer when that "toaster ding" sounbyte went off.

[PeterK]

I didn't realize what the "toaster ding" meant initially. The first few times it went off, I assumed it was somehow part of the background music. Now that I know what it is, I also get excited when I hear it. Also enjoyable is the sound of the lid popping off. My son laughs hysterically whenever that happens.

Though I do wish some of the recipes were less vague, I've gotten some good stuff from the pot.

[extarbags]

Just started this last night, and I love it. I love the monster design, I love the voice work, I love the music, I love the graphics, I love the deceptively-simple-yet-surprisingly-deep advancement system... I love all of it.

But the min-maxer in me won't be silenced, so help me out here: I've been putting the hero's points into Boomerang and Courage, which I realize will relegate him to a support role during boss fights, and I'm ok with that. But what about Yangus? I started putting points into Scythe, and also Fisticuffs because I want him to learn Padfoot, but now the internet tells me that the steal item abilities from Scythe don't really work well, and plus he's still using his starter club. So is Scythe useful at all? What about the gold-stealing abilities for club? What weapon should I have him using? And I'm level 8, how dicked am I if I misspent those points?

Edit: Oh man I forgot one of my favorite parts! The way the towns are designed. The weapon and armor stand right next to each other with the big signs... it's so much like the 8-bit games (the only ones I've played previously). It's like you're just zoomed in on the 8-bit town map and exploring it in lucious 3d.

[Hawkeye Fierce]

I'm level 8, how dicked am I if I misspent those points?
That early, it's not a big deal - most of the skill paths for all the characters have some pretty useful all-around skills at the low ends, so it's beneficial to spread your points around to some extent. Eventually, though, you get diminishing returns from spreading points around, so in the later game it pays to focus on one weapon/skillset.

Be warned about Boomerangs - there aren't many powerful boomerangs around. You'll be presented with the choice of either sticking the Hero with a substandard weapon for a while, or giving him a weapon with which he has no skills. Thus, having a few points spread around is useful. Yangus has the same issue - there isn't always a weapon of your preferred type that's appropriate to your current level/area.

In the end, though, you don't need to worry too much about the optimal "build." You get plenty of skill points throughout the game, and the game is plenty beatable even without maxed skills.

[Nick Walter]

I wouldn't worry too much extar. I think it's hard to screw up the hero and yangus since all of their skills basically boil down to hitting people with weapons. I recommend getting the hero to at least 25 in sword for late game metal slime hunting though.

Angelo and Jessica on the other hand are probably easier to screw up. They are both mages and need need need to get some sort of MP recovery from a skill or else they won't be able to cast often. With Jessica that means staff and with Angelo that means bow or staff. I recommend bow actually as it's a better MP gainer than staff and in the late game bows can do great damage.

[extarbags]

Thanks! That reminds me, what's this "Sex Appeal" skill I've heard so much about, and how useful is it?

[Chris Woods]

I would concentrate on the non-combat skills (Courage, etc.) while you got a feel for the weapons. I pumped Hero's Courage up first and still employed a Boomerang, then once I had Courage to pretty high levels I started working Sword because it was obvious to me that single target damage was going to be more important to my playstyle.

Similar with Yangus, though I started working Axe fairly early got the armor debuf which is awesome in boss fights. Also, axe gets a group attack, meaning Yangus can simulate "Boomerang mode" as needed.

Same with any other people you may or may not encounter. Consider pumping their non-combat skills for several levels while you feel it out. They're all handy, and it will make the concern about wasted points moot.

Chris Woods

[zabuni]

Thanks! That reminds me, what's this "Sex Appeal" skill I've heard so much about, and how useful is it?

The skill mainly mesmerizes enemies, either by chance (1/8 times at its highest) or through skills.

It does have some damaging skills, but nothing in comparison to Jessica's spells. Good for magic resistant enemies.

The main reason people put points in Sex Appeal is the animations that comes with the skills.

[Hawkeye Fierce]

The main reason people put points in Sex Appeal is the animations that comes with the skills.

Yeah, I went with Whips and Sex Appeal for Jessica. While SA was amusing for the early parts of the game, by the mid-to-late game I was wishing I had those points back to dump into Staves.

[DanielElliot]

Are Angelo's bow MP recovery skills usable if he's not using a bow? I've just gotten him fairly recently (just finished Pickham), and have points in Unarmed and Charisma so far. I like Unarmed, and I'd like to stick with it while putting points in either bow or staves for the spells.

[Greedo]

Are Angelo's bow MP recovery skills usable if he's not using a bow? I've just gotten him fairly recently (just finished Pickham), and have points in Unarmed and Charisma so far. I like Unarmed, and I'd like to stick with it while putting points in either bow or staves for the spells.

Nope . . . ne needs to have a bow equipped. (I assume you're talking about the Cherub Shot skill).

[DanielElliot]

No idea what I'm talking about, I only have points in unarmed and charisma right now. What would be a good third skill for him, do you think? Staves?

Anyone use Knives with Jessica, by the way? I'm too far down the road with them to change now, but I haven't been overly impressed, other than the paralysis effect my current knife (poison moth knife) has.

[Nick Walter]

No idea what I'm talking about, I only have points in unarmed and charisma right now. What would be a good third skill for him, do you think? Staves?

Anyone use Knives with Jessica, by the way? I'm too far down the road with them to change now, but I haven't been overly impressed, other than the paralysis effect my current knife (poison moth knife) has.

Knives are good because with enough knife skill Jessica can equip swords.

I wouldn't recommend unarmed with Angelo. I'm sure it's doable, but you are making the game harder than it would be if you gave him a bow and good bow skills.

[DanielElliot]

Alright, I'll start putting points into bows too, then. I'll keep him unarmed until I feel the need to switch.

[Kitsune]

You know you can change weapons within battle without any loss of initiative, right?

-Kitsune

[DanielElliot]

Didn't know that. Good tip, thanks! Now I can give Jessica a staff when...I feel like it. Which is seldom since the wizard's staff sucks so much. But I'm sure I will want to do that at some point. When you say "without any loss of initiative", do you mean it doesn't take up their turn?

[zabuni]

Yep, and putting points in the staff allows for the user to have increased magic points, and increased wisdom (spell damage) when equipped with a staff.

[DanielElliot]

I'm doing

Hero: Swords, boomerangs (love the boomerang for weaker encounters), courage

Yangus: Scythes, clubs, humanity

Jessica: Staves, knives, sex appeal

Angelo: Unarmed, charisma, and will start putting points in bows


I'll start giving Jessica a staff when I need to cast spells a lot, which hasn't really happened yet. Hero switches from boomerang to sword when the going gets rough or for boss fights, and I guess Angelo will probably switch to a bow at some point. Yangus has been using a scythe exclusively, but I'm taking club points just because I want a third skill for him (I hear you get 350 points if you max out your levels)

[zabuni]

The only problem with maxing out levels, is that it will take an obscene amount of grinding to get there. I finished the game below level 50.

[extarbags]

Good lord, this game just won'tstop getting better. I love the way the game balances the dark undertones of the plot with the bright, happy-go-lucky game world and monsters. Just stellar.

Ok, so: I like Yangus using scythes too, even though Steal Scythe is pretty much worthless. I haven't put Hero points into Sword yet, though, because here's how I like to fight bosses: everyone goes into full support mode, buffing Yangus, debuffing the boss, healing when necessary, while Yangus psyches up. Have him psyche up to the max, then attack, then repeat as many times as necessary. It's rad. But I'll put the points into Sword if I start feeling the squeeze.

[zabuni]

The only real problem you might hit is that some of the later sword weapons are only equippable by Jessica or the Hero, although Angelo has a couple of really nice swords only he can use.

[extarbags]

Oh that reminds me: the biggest reason to put points into Sword is for the ability that helps with hitting Metal Slimes, right? Well I ran into a few of those last night, in the dungeon you do right before you get Angelo, and I managed to kill one... holy crap, awesome. Where can I find more, and what's the best way to kill them?

[dmiller]

Maybe I've quickly become impatient with games these days, but I couldn't make it through this game. It's just too long. It's a great, simple jrpg, but the length in my opinion is bordering on insane. I can't put 70 hours into a game. My break point is now at 30 (which I made it to in DQVIII, but then quit). I guess I wish they would just compact all of the good stuff, weed out the bad (the prince hunting scene) and edit the game down to 30 hours. I would have loved it.

[Nick Walter]

Oh that reminds me: the biggest reason to put points into Sword is for the ability that helps with hitting Metal Slimes, right? Well I ran into a few of those last night, in the dungeon you do right before you get Angelo, and I managed to kill one... holy crap, awesome. Where can I find more, and what's the best way to kill them?

Ability to kill metal slimes is a handy side effect of swords, but not the main reason. The main reason to learn swords is falcon slash, which is a sweet 0mp attack that does ~50% more than normal damage with every attack.

There are three versions of metal slimes in the game and they are sprinkled around in various places. Late in the game there is an area where only slimes live (with a high percentage of metals) so it's a great place to wander around and get in fights and get xp.

Metal slimes take 0 damage from all magic, 1 damage from attacks, 2-4 damage from metal slash, and full normal damage from critical hits. The best way to kill the bigger metal slimes is moves with a high crit rate such as Yangus' Executioner move. The best way to kill weaker metal slimes is falcon blades and metal slash.

[Reed]

I guess I wish they would just compact all of the good stuff, weed out the bad (the prince hunting scene) and edit the game down to 30 hours. I would have loved it.
Same here. That and cut the # of random battles in half.

[DanielElliot]

One thing (one of the few things really) I find irritating is needing to manually select the 0 mp special abilities each time. Like I want Yangus to use Steal Sickle instead of normal attack every time, since it does a little more damage and one time it even actually stole something, but those three extra clicks or whatever aren't worth it to me when i'm fighting 34958379 monsters in a dungeon.

[RickH]

I guess I wish they would just compact all of the good stuff, weed out the bad (the prince hunting scene) and edit the game down to 30 hours. I would have loved it.

Stuck on the prince myself. I wish there was an option to slap him around a little.

[Backov]

One thing (one of the few things really) I find irritating is needing to manually select the 0 mp special abilities each time. Like I want Yangus to use Steal Sickle instead of normal attack every time, since it does a little more damage and one time it even actually stole something, but those three extra clicks or whatever aren't worth it to me when i'm fighting 34958379 monsters in a dungeon.

When I played through it, ya, I'd want to use a special 0mp attack most of the time. But the problem is that those attacks don't critical often, if at all. So instead of using Yangus's big special hammer attack, I'd often just attack - his skill with hammers was so high that he'd critical a lot.

[extarbags]

One thing (one of the few things really) I find irritating is needing to manually select the 0 mp special abilities each time. Like I want Yangus to use Steal Sickle instead of normal attack every time, since it does a little more damage and one time it even actually stole something, but those three extra clicks or whatever aren't worth it to me when i'm fighting 34958379 monsters in a dungeon.

Yeah that would be my pretty much only complaint so far.

[Ben]

Backov- But, for example, his axe debuff attack is hugely superior to his regular attack. It would've been easy to do a Diablo 2-style "change what "attack" means config.