Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones

[Andrew Mallon]

Anyone playing this? The new speed kill system is ridiculously fun. TTT is so much better than Warrior Within. If you gave up on the series after WW, seriously consider looking into this one.

I hate using the term "speed kill,” as it makes the game sound reflex based, when really the system is almost more about positioning and navigating the environment than anything else. It's almost like a little mini-platforming challenge within any given room.

It basically works like this: you enter a room and there's a guard either standing in a fixed location or following a small patrol route. You can attack him straight out, but if you look around the room, you can you usually determine where you need to position yourself to score a stealth kill. Then, the challenge is getting there. Usually it means walking a ledge and performing a few jumps to get there. Sometimes you have to be careful to wait until the guard can't see you. Actually executing the kill is almost perfunctory; the real challenge is getting to the point where you can do it.

The best part of it is that it really feels like something that fits in a Prince of Persia game, unlike the clunky combo system of Warrior Within. It feels fluid and integrated into the game, rather than the disjointed, ok, platform section, combat section, puzzle section of the previous two games. It’s incredibly satisfying when you start stringing together multiple speed kills.

Regarding the story, the vengeful, rage-filled prince is gone and the developers have tried very hard to recreate the Sands of Time vibe. Too hard, in fact. Sands of Time was a perfectly told, self-contained story and I think it was a mistake to try and extend the story across three games. The more they add to it, the more they diminish the impact that SOTs ending had.

This isn’t to say the story’s bad mind you, it’s light years better than Warrior Within and has its moments. The game does work hard to try and recapture the feel of SoT. The original voice actor for the Prince is back, and they also bring back the game-as-a-narrated-story vibe, complete with a narrator asking if she should continue the story later when you go to a menu. Unfortunately, the narrator of the game is very weak. Her voice is fine, but the delivery is stiff and she doesn’t sound enthusiastic.

Music is period appropriate and well done (no more heavy metal, thank God). My only other problem is with the art direction. SoT had such a swashbuckling feel with vibrant colors and slightly surreal environments. So far in TTT I’ve seen a lot of gritty, sandy environments with monotonous desert brown colors. This has improved slightly now that I reached the palace, but it definitely doesn’t appeal to me as much the style in SoT.

This game is a huge step forward from Warrior Within. It’s not quite as good as Sands of Time, but it does feel like a worthy sequel so far.

[selfnoise]

Thanks for posting this... I'm in the "loved SoT, returned WW" camp.

Question: does the TT plot depend on WW? I REALLY don't want to play that game through.

[Drastic]

How's the general-vague polish level? Does our hero bellow "I AM THE PRINCE OF PERSIA AND THE KING OF BLADES!" when you accidentally hit your attack button? Does he utter two-second long battle grunts for a half-second sword-slash? Do enemies urge you to spank them, and purringly announce that there's soooo much pleasure in pain and utter dying gasps when they're still standing and the Prince is knocked on his ass?

[Andrew Mallon]

You really don't need to have played Warrior Within to understand TTT. All you need to know is that the sands of time and the Dagger of Time were created by some tart known as the Empress of Time and she totally has the hots for the Prince. Seriously, that's about all the story that carries forward from Warrior Within.

And so far there's been no pandering to the kiddies in this one. No heavy metal, no S&M bondage chicks wearing butt floss, and no dumb battle cries. The game's much closer to Sands of Time in this respect.

[RichardC]

Thanks for posting this... I'm in the "loved SoT, returned WW" camp.

Question: does the TT plot depend on WW? I REALLY don't want to play that game through.

You missed nothing.

I'm willing to give it a try even after Warrior Without, but they comprehensively murdered any sense of anticipation with Shahdee, Kaileena and the rest of Harlot Island. All I hope for is to be pleasantly surprised.

Oh, and Kindred Blades was a much better title than Two Thrones.

[Charles]

I've been playing the game since wednesday, and I must say, it's a worthy successor to the PoP title.

I think gamespot put it best when they added this to their 'good' things: "Prince lost his Baditude".

The game is fun, the level design is nothing short of brilliant, the speed kill system adds a ton of strategy to the game, combat has slowed down a bit from WW's frantic (and buggy) button mashing/ hoping for a hit.

The gameplay additions are great as well. Jabbing your knife in to the wall to hang there, and all the variations that adds. Speed killing from hanging upside down on a chain.

My only criticism of the game so far is that the voice actor for the dark prince is poor when compared to the rest of the voice actors. The guy just doesn't pull it off. Realistically, they should've just gotten the guy who does the prince to do it.

That, and the fact that while combat is much improved over WW, there's still some bugs to it. I've spent a few fights fighting a guy that was standing exactly on the same spot as I was.

edit: As for story continuation, the beginning of the game gives you a quick rundown, including telling everyone that the ending they got in WW was wrong, because TT builds off the 'good' ending which no one got.

[Jamie Madigan]

There's not going to be a PC port of this one, is there? I don't see it listed on EBGames, for example.

[Charles]

There's not going to be a PC port of this one, is there? I don't see it listed on EBGames, for example.

There is.

[Andrew Mallon]

PC version ships next week: http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/product/257764.asp

[Jamie Madigan]

Ah, cool, thanks guys. I may pick up the PC version. I got a USB converter for my PS2 controller that has worked pretty well in the past.

[SorenJohnson]

does anyone know if WW actually did sell more copies than SoT? I've always heard that (depressing thought, I know...) but have never actually seen the numbers. If WW did sell better, it's impressive that they learned the right lessons and dropped the badittude.

[Kevin Grey]

does anyone know if WW actually did sell more copies than SoT? I've always heard that (depressing thought, I know...) but have never actually seen the numbers. If WW did sell better, it's impressive that they learned the right lessons and dropped the badittude.

If it did sell more copies its not by much. I searched Gaming-Age for LTD numbers for both games but couldn't find them. IIRC, Warrior Within technically got off to a stronger start but also faded much faster. Sands of Time is widely considered to have performed poorly after a lackluster first month (approx 100k across all three platforms). Sales turned around the following month though with something like 400k across all three platforms and I'm pretty sure it has since broken a million.

Ubi put out a press release last year touting the "stronger start" for Warrior Within compared to SoT but I think it came close to evening out in the end.

[Draikin]

I finished it and i think it ends the sands of time trilogy very well.

- Story: Kaleina's new voice is really great in the french version, she's a perfect narrator. I liked all the characters: Prince, Farah, Dark Prince. TTT story linked SoT and WW together and gave us a good ending.

- Gameplay: Maybe i played SoT and WW too much. TTT was a speedrun for me, i never got stuck, never had to think more than 5 seconds about what i had to do next. As a result i missed pretty much all bonus. It's still great to jump around like a cat, that's why i love PoP afterall ;). Speedkills are cool, so are all the new gameplay additions. The first and last boss are great, the two others really suck, especially the twin warriors. Needs more traps imo :( also Farah is not used enough. Dark Prince is good for platforming (you have to act really fast) but combat is really boring, he's way too powerful.

- Music is okay i guess, I never really liked Inon Zur, it feels souless. CG are fantastic. Ingame gfx are a mixed bag (bad: Babylon city; good: Babel tower). I didn't find any bug.

The bonus video is funny :lol:

[RepoMan]

Just call me The Threadcromancer... because I only get 4 hours a week for solo gaming (WoW cut my solo game time in half) so I'm late to play everything.

That said, I'm not very far into PoP:TTS, but I must say so far so good. I couldn't agree more that speed kills are the shizzle -- I skipped WW due to the annoying attitude and de-emphasized acrobatics that everyone has cited, and so far TTS has the same kind of atmospheric fairy-tale-like quality that SOT had. And the speed kills help with that. The combat is fine but what I really like is craftily jumping around.

And on that note... I really, really like the jumping around. In fact, I've never played a game that made me feel as much freedom of motion as this game does. I feel myself savoring darn near every wallrun-to-speedkill-platform, or every beam-walk-to-jump-to-split-slide. I don't EVER want them to stop making this game!!!

Which is why it concerns me that everyone is talking about "bringing the saga of the Prince to an end." Is this really the end for this whole series? Am I going to have to hope that Crystal Dynamics gives Lara actual acrobatic skill? I don't WANT Ubisoft to give up this engine and character! I want the Prince (or someone equally nimble) to do some SERIOUS next-gen 360 acrobatics! Waaaah!!!!!

Anyone know whether this franchise is really dead as of now?

Cheers!
Rob

[Kevin Grey]

I skipped WW due to the annoying attitude and de-emphasized acrobatics that everyone has cited

FWIW, acrobatics aren't de-emphasized in WW. If anything, it has even more platforming than SoT and the platforming is generally excellent.

If you can get past the "attitude" there is quite an underrated game within WW and you might want to pick it up at a budget price.

[Charles]

It's not worth it even at a budget price. I picked it up for 15 bucks and I still feel ripped off. Too much combat, and the combat is buggy and absolutely no fun. And the level design is atrocious. And you have to play on mute.

[BDGE]

I agree with Kevin, avoided WW until I saw it budget priced last summer and gave it the benefit of the doubt. Strip away the attitude adjustment, and you're still left with the equal parts platforming, puzzles, and combat. Having played Two Thrones just a few months later, I found both games carried equal representation when it came to those elements.

WW has it's share of problems though, the Xbox version is riddled with glitches, bugs, constant crashing, and sound errors(supposedly a Live-enabled patch to fix that stuff is available though which I wasn't aware of at the time). The progression has some minor backtracking woes forcing the Prince to revisit certain combat and platforming sections that cheapens the experience. And the story can almost give RE4 a run for its retarded money(Island of Time??).

The Dahaka chase sequences are thrilling though, and there are some captivating locations in the game. Not a classic, but decent fun. I didn't actually find Two Thrones to be THAT superior to this game either, though the speed kills and lack of backtracking were definite improvements.

[Xemu]

My problem with WW was when the first miniboss (the babe at the end of the 1st level) kicked my ass until I went down to easy, and the second miniboss was around all these pits of infinite death that the Prince would leap into blindly (ie, literally where the camera could not see them). Does it get better from there?

Loving Two Thrones too, BTW... got it for Christmas.

[MattKeil]

Anyone know whether this franchise is really dead as of now?

Next gen installments have been mentioned by Ubisoft multiple times. PoP is popular enough that it's not going away any time soon.

[Wholly Schmidt]

Next gen installments have been mentioned by Ubisoft multiple times. PoP is popular enough that it's not going away any time soon.
Remember when we were all so upset that a game like Prince of Persia (SoT) was doing so poorly, and how depressing it was that they were practically giving it away with Splinter Cell, and how it really deserved a sequel? That was fun.

[RepoMan]

Remember when we were all so upset that a game like Prince of Persia (SoT) was doing so poorly, and how depressing it was that they were practically giving it away with Splinter Cell, and how it really deserved a sequel? That was fun.
No. No, it wasn't.

Specifically, what was not fun about it was exactly the same thing that wasn't fun about hearing "this ends the saga of the Prince" with TTT... great games should never die, they should just keep getting remade, BETTER! :-D

(Take that, Chick! Don't bust ME for context-free "fun" usage!)

[Papageno]

I've been playing Warrior Within on and off since I got it free with a new vidcard last summer, and the thing that's killing me is the plethora of freaking combat moves. I mean, who can remember them all in the heat of battle? In SoT, you basically had the "jump over the enemy and slash him from behind" move, the variant on that one where you ran up the wall first, and the "bounce off the wall and knock the enemy down" move for the badass blue guys with the double-ended spears and the big scimitar-wielding guys.

With WW, I feel like I have to learn the 50 different combat moves (which admittedly look pretty cool) just to have a chance in battle, especially against multiple opponents. Or are there a few good ol' standbys that work most of the time? And does this get any better in the Two Thrones? At least it seems like you can dispense with some of the long drawn out combat with these stealth kills.

[Kevin Grey]

With WW, I feel like I have to learn the 50 different combat moves (which admittedly look pretty cool) just to have a chance in battle, especially against multiple opponents. Or are there a few good ol' standbys that work most of the time? And does this get any better in the Two Thrones? At least it seems like you can dispense with some of the long drawn out combat with these stealth kills.

I've forgotten the moves specifically but, yeah, you can generally get by with a few good ol' standbys.

The combat system in TTT is the same but the stealth system largely alleviates the need to use it.

[Daydreamer]

I liked all three PoP games, and bought and beat 'em all before trading them in. TTT was definitely better than WW in my book, though not as good as SoT - but as good as they are I can't but help feel that the entire series dances near but not quite on the edge of greatness. I do wish they continue the series, I'd love to see what else they could do with it.

PS: the double regular guard stealth kill sequence is my favorite, followed by the 5-hit special guard sequence.

[BDGE]

I liked all three PoP games, and bought and beat 'em all before trading them in. TTT was definitely better than WW in my book, though not as good as SoT - but as good as they are I can't but help feel that the entire series dances near but not quite on the edge of greatness. I do wish they continue the series, I'd love to see what else they could do with it.

I'd agree with this, though I almost feel as if SoT IS a classic, despite it's regurgitating enemy spawns; I was captivated by that narrative, something neither of its sequel brethren could match.

I'm not a fan of combat in any of the games, and I do wish I could recall some of the priotity moves to easilly dispatch certain foes in WW. I will say that in TTT, running up the walls as the prince and hitting either attack button can rip most enemies to shreds. Nevermind dealing with combos or direct attacks, that single move pretty much kept my sanity during those moments when I failed the stealth kill.

[Equis]

I'd agree with this, though I almost feel as if SoT IS a classic, despite it's regurgitating enemy spawns; I was captivated by that narrative, something neither of its sequel brethren could match.

I'm not a fan of combat in any of the games, and I do wish I could recall some of the priotity moves to easilly dispatch certain foes in WW. I will say that in TTT, running up the walls as the prince and hitting either attack button can rip most enemies to shreds. Nevermind dealing with combos or direct attacks, that single move pretty much kept my sanity during those moments when I failed the stealth kill.

I really liked TTT though, and completely agree that it is not the captivating magic that was SoT. It does however, alleviate a lot of the criticism that WW brought. This should have been the sequel and have one more.

I hope for more PoP games.

[Shiroko]

I will say that in TTT, running up the walls as the prince and hitting either attack button can rip most enemies to shreds. Nevermind dealing with combos or direct attacks, that single move pretty much kept my sanity during those moments when I failed the stealth kill.

Yeah, once I figured that I forgot all combos I knew, I just run matrix style and slice the poor guards. For some reason this stikre does the damage of two good combos. And it also works great for when you are out of a second weapon.

I have to say though once you forget the theme of WW it's a good game, the PC version wasn't buggy, the fighting was better and some of the level design there was fantastic (Like the garden tower).

-Shiroko

[Kevin Grey]

I have to say though once you forget the theme of WW it's a good game, the PC version wasn't buggy, .


Yeah it was. In fact, all versions I believe suffer from a monster game ending bug that is rather easy to trigger. I've personally experienced it in the PC version. And while they never patched it, at least with the PC version you can download a savegame to bypass it.