Thoughts on the energy drink craze [Archive]

Tyjenks

11-16-2005, 08:54 AM

If you ever go in a convenience store you will know of what I speak. There are now 70 brands (probably by a total of 4 bottling companies) of energy drinks that guarantee to give you that extra oomph! that a coke or cup of coffee cannot give. Red Bull, like Jolt Cola, seemed like some flash in the pan, only college kids up late studying-type fad, but the numbers of people I see drinking and buying them are through the roof.

Near as I can tell they all have close to the same ingredients....Vitamins B12, B, C, Niacin...blah, blah, Taurine, GInseng and an energy "formula" that consists primarily of 3 kinds of sugar, caffeine, and then more sugar. Also, they all taste kinda funky, but not so bad. I have settled on Monster as my drink of choice and I really like. It comes in a 16 oz. (although, I have seen a 32oz. can, jeez) so you get a little more jolt for your dollars. It does give me a little boost, but I am sure in a few years it will be shown that copious amounts of Taurine and Ginseng, in concert, leads to scrotal sack detachment.

And 2 damn dollars (+/-) a piece is steep. Especially since there is no way to buy them in bulk. Of course, it does say on the can that you should not consume more than 3 in a day. That sorta scares me. I may have 3 in a week, though.

Now Coke has their version, "Full Throttle". Then there is Vault which is a pseudo energy drink from Coke or Pepsi (I think) that just has the vitamins added to a Mt. Dew-ish drink and it is sold out regularly in the soft drink machines on campus. Added to that, there is an energy beer which I have yet to try along with the 500 varieties of mixed drinks that are adding Red Bull, et.al.

Anyone think this is going to fade or is it just an expansion of the drink market that is here until the Republicans destroy the world with big industry, global warming, and wholesale destruction of the ecosystem?

Not sure why I decided an essay was required when I coulda just sat whatcha think? :)

Alan Dunkin

11-16-2005, 08:59 AM

Actually the new fad is energy jelly beans. You carry a small pack of them around with you whenever you need the pick-me-up. Quite a few guys are going for these.. even Jelly Belly has gotten involved.

I guess the other thing, besides energy bars, is energy goo, which has been around for awhile, and is probably the best energy delivery system (taken with water), but for various reasons doesn't sell itself very well.

For me though, if I do need something, it's either the classic Gatorade or maybe a CLIF bar, which is generally a decent bar.

--- Alan

Jason McCullough

11-16-2005, 09:11 AM

Just sounds like a way to get really fat to me.

The era Coca-Cola was invented in had the same fad, right? Pick me ups, on the go, etc.

Ryan A

11-16-2005, 09:29 AM

As far as I understand things, there's a huge difference between energy gells/bars like Powerbar/Clifbar/Gu etc. and the truck-stop/convenience store 'energy drinks' like Red Bull.

Most of the food-type substances (and their sport drink bretheren like Gatorade) claim to replenish stuff your body consumes during physical activity.

The new 'energy drinks' basically claim to be over-the-counter stimulants in beverage form. These things are tremendously popular with teenagers, who drink several cans a day. I have no medical evidense to support my fears, but I'm sure it's not good for them and I worry about the long term damage they may be doing to their systems.

Kryten

11-16-2005, 10:20 AM

As far as I understand things, there's a huge difference between energy gells/bars like Powerbar/Clifbar/Gu etc. and the truck-stop/convenience store 'energy drinks' like Red Bull.

Absolutely - I've used Peak Fuel (http://www.peakfuel.co.nz/products.htm) (carbo gel, for those not interested in clicking) while competing and it's a completely different league to energy drinks. There's no way I'd consume a Red Bull or V (both of which I quite like) or whatever before exercise anymore (yes, I've tried it).

Joel

11-16-2005, 10:23 AM

One of the only things I miss about the midwest are the Quicktrip 'Rooster Boosters,' a fountain energy drink that can be had for the same price as other sodas. (32 oz. is like $.70, I think). They have a Splenda version now, too, so it's all the zip with none of the calories.

But it's not worth living in Kansas City for.

Jamie Madigan

11-16-2005, 10:26 AM

Man, I miss QuickTrip. They need them out here in California.

Alan Dunkin

11-16-2005, 11:13 AM

Red Bull is especially popular in mixed drinks, where it has also been known to kill people.

Yeah there can be a bit of a difference between sports drinks and energy drinks; sports drinks can replenish what you've lost through exercise, while energy just boosts what you already have - though some can do both. Sports foods are generally good for you, energy drinks may not be.

There's all kinds of caffeine/sugar oriented drinks out there that's popular in the young crowd, Red Bull especially... I guess maybe Mountain Dew is getting out of style. Not great for sports however.

The Jelly Belly's I noted I believe are more along the lines of caffeine chews - according to one account I read they work a lot better and faster than almost any other caffeine delivery system (in an independent "test").

--- Alan

Dean

11-16-2005, 11:23 AM

I drink the energy drinks for long drives and that's it. I do a 5.5 hour drive a couple times a year, and I find that copious caffeine makes me twitchy and I want to get out of the seat and walk around, but the energy drink (always sugar free) give me more mellow energy where I'm singing along with the radio for awhile and then, hey, I've only got an hour to go, and where did the time fly?

Also the complete soundtrack to Sweeney Todd makes the hours pass quickly. So:

Energy Drink + Near opera about mad barber = time machine.

Pretty cool, huh?

Angie Gallant

11-16-2005, 01:44 PM

I have a QuickTrip within walking distance. I don't like the energy drinks, but appreciate the easy access to alcohol.

Robert Sharp

11-16-2005, 02:17 PM

Red Bull is especially popular in mixed drinks, where it has also been known to kill people.

--- Alan

Are you serious? What is the evidence that the Red Bull is somehow responsible (even in part)?

Ryan A

11-16-2005, 02:29 PM

Moore

11-16-2005, 03:26 PM

I'd assume the red bull kept them awake and drinknig long past the point where they should have had the sense to JUST FUCKING STAY DOWN MAN, and then alcohol kills them.

Daly

11-16-2005, 03:27 PM

Red Bull is especially popular in mixed drinks, where it has also been known to kill people.

Are you serious? What is the evidence that the Red Bull is somehow responsible (even in part)?

I'm not sure if Alan may be reffering to something else, but France made the news a while back after banning the drink. To my knowledge however, they haven't proven that it's dangerous.

In a ruling yesterday, the European Court of Justice upheld the main part of the EC challenge, ordering France to lift the ban unless it could prove the health risks. But the court said that the French government did have a right to ban Red Bull.

The judges said that a study by the French Scientific Committee on Human Nutrition found that Red Bull contained excessive caffeine. The committee also raised concerns about the drink's other ingredients - taurine, an amino acid the company claims can 'kick-start' the metabolism - and glucuronolactone, a carbohydrate.

The EC's Scientific Committee on Food conducted a study last year, and found that while caffeine levels in energy drinks were safe, more studies were needed to assess the dangers of taurine and glucuronolactone.

While other toxicology experts had concluded that the caffeine levels in Red Bull are safe, France had a right to ban the drink on the advice of its own experts, the court said.

One can of Red Bull contains 80mg of caffeine - equivalent to one cup of coffee.

Here be linkage (http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/index.php?newsid=5753) to the quoted text.

Bill Dungsroman

11-16-2005, 04:11 PM

I'm not sure if Alan may be reffering to something else, but France made the news a while back after banning the drink. To my knowledge however, they haven't proven that it's dangerous.

I'll point out that, according to the article you linked, along with Red Bull, France outlawed Kellogg's cereal - both because they contain vitamins.

In a ruling yesterday, the European Court of Justice upheld the main part of the EC challenge, ordering France to lift the ban unless it could prove the health risks. But the court said that the French government did have a right to ban Red Bull.

The ban was upheld because, as mentioned, one can's caffiene dose is roughly equivalent to one cup of coffee, and it contains vitamins, and who know what they do? Seriously though, if Starbuck's marketed a coffee drink that contained vitamins, France or Kraplakistan or whoever could ban it, if so inclined.

The judges said that a study by the French Scientific Committee on Human Nutrition found that Red Bull contained excessive caffeine. The committee also raised concerns about the drink's other ingredients - taurine, an amino acid the company claims can 'kick-start' the metabolism - and glucuronolactone, a carbohydrate.

The EC's Scientific Committee on Food conducted a study last year, and found that while caffeine levels in energy drinks were safe, more studies were needed to assess the dangers of taurine and glucuronolactone.

See how this article tries to confuse the facts to make its point? In essence, the caffeine isn't a concern - although the article wants you to think it is, and it's the reason France (presumably) flipped out. But wait! What's all this vitamin hoo-haw?

The deal is, taurine - which can cause problems if too much is ingested, like I dunno, every substance ever - can be of harm to people with specific, rare metabolic disorders that almost nobody has heard of that hasn't suffered through medical biochemistry course of some kind. PKU(Phenylketonuria), MSUD (Maple Syrup urine Disease - no really), HCU (Homocystenuria) are all diseases caused by genetic inborn errors of metabolic function. Neonatal blood samples are tested for these in that battery of shit they test for in pregnant women. Why? If you don't avoid taurine and other substances who are broken down in those specific pathways that are corrupted by their respective diseases, PKU babies (for instance) will eventually suffer permanent brain damage. They act like a moderately-functioning retarded person with an odd hyperactivity, but they tend to be friendly regardless. PKU kids whose mom avoided taurine and maintain a strict diet devoid of taurine suffer zero mental or physical effects. Seriously, I watched a film in med school with a girl and a boy, both in their 20s. The boy's parents were religious fundy types and brooked no faith in what the doctors were telling them, so their boy is retarded and I guess can drink Red Bull until he's blue in the face. The girl had smart parents and she herself is careful and at the time of the filming, she was a straight-A college student. I've never walked out of a class film so goddamned angry.

Incidentally, taurine is used in supportive therapy for a variety of illnesses, including epilepsy, Down's Syndrome, breast cancer and hyperactivity/anxiety disorders. It's a non-essential amino acid (in that the body naturally produces it) and is the prime component of bile salts, which the body uses to emulsify fat, and is used in the nervous system for proper neuronal function relevant to ionic transport. You, like, need it, but you don't need to overdo it.

While other toxicology experts had concluded that the caffeine levels in Red Bull are safe, France had a right to ban the drink on the advice of its own experts, the court said.

One can of Red Bull contains 80mg of caffeine - equivalent to one cup of coffee.

The anecdotes the article relates are pretty weak, IMO. "Some kid drank some then died THE END." Okay! Sudden Adult Death Syndrome? WTF is that? When your heart stops and nobody knows why. Okay!

Backov

11-16-2005, 04:22 PM

But aren't there other "caffeine equivelants" in Red Bull? Like Guarana, ginseng, etc, etc.. I know they like to keep the ingredients list long.. So is that 80mg JUST caffeine and not the other herbal shit?

Glenn

11-16-2005, 04:31 PM

Red Bull ingredients:
Ingredients: carbonated water, sucrose, glucose, sodium citrate, taurine, glucuronolactone, caffeine, inositol, niacin, D-pantothenol, pyridoxine HCL, vitamin B12, artificial flavours, colors

The only ingredient with caffeine in it is the, um, caffeine.

Daly

11-16-2005, 04:51 PM

InfiniteJest

11-16-2005, 05:41 PM

One guy's subjective experience taste-testing a bunch:

http://www.slate.com/id/2126591/

Nathan Phoenix

11-16-2005, 08:13 PM

I'm just happy that Red Bull makes a sugar free variant for us diabetics.

Lunch of Kong

11-16-2005, 08:23 PM

Heheh. I bought a bunch of Steven Seagal Juice as a gag. Man, that stuff was nasty. Everyone loved to hate it. It was awesome.

"No added sugar"... yet the first listed ingredient is "cane syrup". "No added caffeine!" ... yet it also lists "guarana extract" and "coca bean extract"

The cherry flavor Steven Seagal juice was more palatable than the regular flavor.

Alan Dunkin

11-16-2005, 11:16 PM

Well to quantify the thing about Red Bull, yes it has not actually been blamed directly for anyone's death.

The problem inherent in the drink is that Red Bull contains various elements - like caffeine - that are simulants, and alcohol is a depressant. Mixing the two are never good and can cause all sorts of crap with your body. One reason Red Bull is used in mixed drinks is because people think it negates the effects of the alcohol, which is about as erroneous as Bush's assumptions on Iraq's WMD programs. One does not necessarily cancel the other out. I haven't seen any conclusive studies but it's definitely not good for you either way.

Red Bull also contains glucuronolactone, which has had several European health scares. Glucuronolactone is also linked to taurine, which because of its medicinal purposes anything with taurine in it is treated as a medicine and hence restricted (as in France I believe). Sports drinks are sold over the counter, but cannot contain taurine.

Still, drinking a couple cans of Red Bull as many do per day can cause all sorts of problems: diarrhea, nausea, stomach pains/cramps, etc.

Yes I got most of the above from wikpedia. A couple of former co-workers used to ingest Red Bull daily and wouldn't be able to drink more than two cans a day max. And never, ever with mixed drinks.

--- Alan

Jojo

11-17-2005, 11:14 AM

Heheh. I bought a bunch of Steven Seagal Juice as a gag. Man, that stuff was nasty. Everyone loved to hate it. It was awesome.
:shock: I hope never to ingest Steven Seagal's juice.

Like Ryan, I find Red Bull to be great for long drives, but that's about it. I can't even finish a whole can of the stuff. I tried drinking an entire can once, half way through a 6hr drive. We arrived, and I had to run up and down the stairs for a bit, to burn off the excess energy. It was sort of amusing, and sort of disturbing at the same time. Excess caffeine makes me all jumpy, and I find that while the body is wired, the brain is still tired. Red Bull seems to have an overall awakening effect.

Thanks for that medical info stuff Bill, really interesting.

Moore

11-17-2005, 01:27 PM

whoa whoa

more info on "MSUD (Maple Syrup urine Disease - no really)" please

Robert Sharp

11-17-2005, 01:27 PM

Well, Wikipedia could still have people complaining that aspertame causes memory loss. We can give anecdotal evidence for almost anything. I suppose France takes that stuff to heart though!

Talisker

11-17-2005, 04:00 PM

whoa whoa

more info on "MSUD (Maple Syrup urine Disease - no really)" please
Yay, Google! (http://www.meadjohnson.com/metabolics/maplesyrupurinedesease.html)

Tim

11-17-2005, 04:32 PM

I was drinking 2 16oz cans of Monster drink almost every day for 4 or 5 months. I quit caffeine completely a little over a month ago. I'll be back on it in a month or two.

I much prefer this stuff to the massive doses of Mountain Dew or other "conventional" caffeine sodas. I just had to drink way too much and was getting sick on all the sugar and other crap. The Monster drink actually never got in my way much. Plus, I get cases at Costco for about $1 per can.

Before that, I liked the Blue Ox drinks. I got a free case of that shipped from Austria when I emailed them pictures of the misspelling their moron American bottler had ("suppliment"). That was fun. But I think the Monster drink tastes a lot better.

Anyway, I was doing it for a work crunch, and was feeling fine on only 5-6 hours of sleep a night for an extended period. My current cold turkey is really just a habit from the days when I used Mtn Dew & Dr Pepper, which eventually would make me feel like crap all the time.

Tyjenks

11-17-2005, 05:32 PM

Cases at Costco?!?!?! Damn, must...have...membership.

Glenn

11-17-2005, 05:37 PM

While we're on the subject, I'd like to point out that Rockstar energy drink is run by the son of Michael I-hope-you-get-AIDS-and-die Savage, and that he owns a large stake in the company. So you are monetarily supporting that fucker each and every time you buy a can.

Kryten

11-17-2005, 07:14 PM

One reason Red Bull is used in mixed drinks is because people think it negates the effects of the alcohol, which is about as erroneous as Bush's assumptions on Iraq's WMD programs.

Wow. I've never known anyone who drinks Red Bull + Vodka who thought that the Red Bull would negate the effects of the alcohol - in fact, it's pretty much the opposite.

Oh, and Red Bull + Jagermeister is scrummy.

Bill Dungsroman

11-18-2005, 09:48 PM

Brandon Clements

11-19-2005, 05:41 AM

Jager? How can y'all drink that vile cough syrup?

Tyjenks

11-19-2005, 07:24 PM

I hear ya', but drop a shot of it in a glass of Red Bull and its like drinking liquid gum drops.

John Sansker

11-19-2005, 10:44 PM

Are you serious? What is the evidence that the Red Bull is somehow responsible (even in part)?

I suspect any evidence would be anecdotal at best -- sort of like all the people who swear that tequila makes them violent and/or horny. NO SERIOUSLY IT WAS THE TEQUILA

Try READING sometime guys.
Like you'll be able to read this.
Anyway, if you were to read the label on a can of Red Bull, you'd notice it contains something like 212% of the recommended daily allowance of vitamin B12.

See, it's a little known FACT, that too much of a good thing(vitamins in this case) can in fact KILL YOUR ASS DEAD.

THIS, is the stuff you want. http://www.bawls.com/

No overly healthy crap to harm you here, just 80mg of caffine per 12oz serving.
Available at some CompUSA stores for $17.99 or so for a case of 12.

Bill Dungsroman

11-20-2005, 07:18 AM

Try READING sometime guys.
Like you'll be able to read this.
Anyway, if you were to read the label on a can of Red Bull, you'd notice it contains something like 212% of the recommended daily allowance of vitamin B12.

See, it's a little known FACT, that too much of a good thing(vitamins in this case) can in fact KILL YOUR ASS DEAD.

THIS, is the stuff you want. http://www.bawls.com/

No overly healthy crap to harm you here, just 80mg of caffine per 12oz serving.
Available at some CompUSA stores for $17.99 or so for a case of 12.

If it's a little-known fact, how did you manage to hear about it? Actually, yes, you are correct. Vitamin OD/intoxication can cause as much harm as anything else. My old Pharm prof said something to the effect of "The only 100% safe substance to ingest is water...in relatively small doses."

That said, B12 intoxication/OD is silly rare. You'd have to hurf a bottle of the fuckers, and even then you'd like as not just get crampy and the shits. It wouldn't, like, KILL YOUR ASS DEAD. Calm down there, Rambo.

B12 is the most structurally-complex of vitamins, we cannot synthesize it ourselves, and we rely on meat and egg products to supply us with it. B12 deficiency is much more common - alcoholics and strict ovovegans are both at risk. The fruity chick who sits next to you in English 101 , the one who smells funny, never shaves her legs, and wears the same pair of overalls every day could actually use a can of Red Bull. So, good point, baaad example.

Bawls. A CompUSA drone offered me that shit once as I was buying KotOR2 and a Dewski.

"So, you're a...gamer?" He said it like he'd presumed I was into BDSM.

"Yeah."

"You should try Bawls."

"Whatever, HOMO." No, just kidding, but he did say that. Then he said it was pretty sugary tasting.

Also, seriously. Are you trying to tell me Bawls is better for you than Red Bull? Let's look at the ingredients:

INGREDIENTS: Carbonated Water, Corn Syrup, Citric Acid, Natural Guarana Flavor, Sodium Benzoate (as a preservative), Caffeine, Artificial Flavors and Caramel Color. WARNING: This products contains high levels of Caffeine

Mmmm, preservatives, sugars, caffeine, artificial flavors and colors. Hey, you know what? High doses of caffeine can KILL YOUR ASS DEAD.

I'm sticking with Mt. Dew but when I really need an eye opener, I drop a Zip Fizz into a bottle of water.

Robert Sharp

11-20-2005, 09:29 AM

Just to add to Bill's point, I take 2 Vit B pills a day, each of which gives me 208% of my daily recommended of B12. I don't even get the cramps Bill is talking about, and I am nowhere close to killing myself. B-12 just isn't a dangerous vitamin. To suggest people die from it when they drink to much Red Bull seems a bit silly, honestly.

You see, reading is about more than reciting things on a label. It includes reading health information so that you can make sense of what you are seeing on those labels. The recommended daily allowance scales are more about getting your minimal needs than setting some sort of limit on your intake. It's a guide for enhancing your diet, not scaring you away from Red Bull.

For that reason, any amount of cocaine would be infinitely more than the recommended daily amount, which is 0.

John Sansker

11-20-2005, 11:22 AM

Oh, I see, I mistakenly belived that if you drank 3 or 4 cans of Red Bull and got 600 to 800% of your RDA of vitamin B12, that it would be bad for you.

As for Bawls, I only mentioned it cause no one else had at that point.
None of that crap is any good for ya really.

Joel

11-20-2005, 01:26 PM

John, your only mistake is not pointing out that Bawls tastes like delicious orange creme soda, while Red Bull tastes like balls.

Robert Sharp

11-20-2005, 05:56 PM

As for Bawls, I only mentioned it cause no one else had at that point.
None of that crap is any good for ya really.

Can't argue with that. The very idea of pumping yourself up for a quick energy fix is just bad. I take vitamins (obviously) but that's because I don't always eat as well as I should. Still, those aren't quick hits...they are daily supplements. However, I don't want to get my energry from caffeine and similar sources. I already eat too much sugar, and it causes me to crash in a bad way after about 30 minutes from eating/drinking it. I'm just an addict :(

Bill Dungsroman

11-20-2005, 06:07 PM

Oh, I see, I mistakenly belived that if you drank 3 or 4 cans of Red Bull and got 600 to 800% of your RDA of vitamin B12, that it would be bad for you.

Don't go all high and hard on those multiples of 100%, John. It's not like any and every substance or chemical you ingest hightails it straight to its respective biochemical pathway, overloads it and kills you. Like as not, you'll just piss most of it off or your liver will bust a nut on the excess, and the pathways it is involved in, while vital, aren't fastidious nor ubiquitous enough to be damaged nor inflict much damage upon your person.

One bowl of Total cereal has 100% of everything. Per your theory, 2 or 3 bowls would make you explode.

Put this way: lots of people would be seriously jacked up if four cans of Red Bull annihilated your internal biochemistry.

As for Bawls, I only mentioned it cause no one else had at that point.
None of that crap is any good for ya really.

Ya.

Joel

11-20-2005, 07:08 PM

noun

11-20-2005, 09:41 PM

The closet I ever came to having any kind of energy drink was a Power Frappacino at a Starbucks about 10 years ago. Near as I can tell, they just mashed a multivitamin into the mix.

Bill Dungsroman

11-20-2005, 09:54 PM

What's the current wisdom about vitamin suplements? I take a multi-vitamin every day I remember, along with some Super B Bastards, but am I actually doing myself any good? Every few months or so I read that taking vitamin suplements doesn't actually help anything, since the stomach lining can't process them in raw for or something.

I think you mean the intestines, the stomach doesn't absorb much of anything. Either way, you got 2 kinds of vitamins, fat-soluble and water-soluble (and minerals). Water-soluble vitamins (B6, B12, Folate, Riboflavin, Thiamine, Niacin, C) absorb readily in the small intestine and excesses are easily excreted by the kidneys (which is why you rarely see B12 ODs, although Niacin intox isn't unheard of). Fat-soluble vitamins, OTOH, (A, E, D, beta-carotene, retinoic acid, K), require bile salts for breakdown an co-absorb with fat in the small intestine. So, taking your vities with a couple pieces of bacon would be a good idea, if you were looking to maximize your absorption of the fat-soluble vitamins. As for the overall value of vitamin supplements? They aren't likely to hurt you, they most probably can help you, especially if you don't eat like the most perfectly balanced diet every day. I say thumbs up!

Robert Sharp

11-21-2005, 09:13 AM

Based on personal testing (which is thus anecdotal, obviously), the vitamins do me a lot of good and I notice a difference when I don't take them...especially the B vitamins, which give me a slight boost of energy throughout the day (relative to not having them anyway).

Joel

11-21-2005, 10:36 AM

Thanks, guys. I will pop some right now with my healthy popcorn lunch.

John Sansker

11-22-2005, 12:13 AM

Hmm, I thought that the RDA thing was a general guide to follow and exceeding by a few hundred percent would be extremely bad if not outright hazardous to your health.

I looked at a can of RedBull in the store the other day before work.
Turns out it is 250% of the RDA of B6 not 212% of B12.
Don't know if that makes any difference, you say that B6 is water souluable too, so I'm guessing it is about the same as B12.

I know that high doses of certain things can kill you though, like Iron.
I was under the impression that any vitamin or supplement could do the same.

To me RedBull tastes like carbonated grapefuit juice.
Bawls was like the guy at the store said, kinda tasted like bubblegum.

Hmm, there is always Jolt cola, if you can find a place to buy it. :D

Ryan A

11-22-2005, 06:21 AM

Hmm, I thought that the RDA thing was a general guide to follow and exceeding by a few hundred percent would be extremely bad if not outright hazardous to your health.

TRY READING (http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/recommended-daily-allowance/) sometime, dude!

I kid because I care. In case you don't want to follow the fun linky, it basically tells you that RDA is essentially the minimum amount of a nutrient you should consume in order to maintain good health. I regularly take 1000% of the RDA for Vitamin C during cold season and it has yet to KILL ME DEAD, though my doctor friends tell me it's really just expensive piss.

Nellie

11-22-2005, 06:59 AM

One reason Red Bull is used in mixed drinks is because people think it negates the effects of the alcohol, which is about as erroneous as Bush's assumptions on Iraq's WMD programs.

More a case of while you get off your tits on the booze, the Red Bull has a good/nasty habit of tending to keep you relatively upright long after the booze on it's own would have you dribbling and pissing yourself on the sofa.

Chris Nahr

11-22-2005, 07:00 AM

I take tons of Vitamin C, too. Keeps the colds away, keeps me awake, and doesn't taste half bad in those instant drinks. What's not to like?

Matthew Gallant

11-22-2005, 07:10 AM

Vitamins have an RDA, but they also have a Tolerable Upper Intake Level. Even Vitamin C.

They're very conservative numbers and people can exceed them-- they are the maximum "safe" dosage of the vitamin.

Robert Sharp

11-22-2005, 12:40 PM

I take tons of Vitamin C, too. Keeps the colds away, keeps me awake, and doesn't taste half bad in those instant drinks. What's not to like?

vitamin C can give you energy? I hadn't heard of that.

Chris Nahr

11-23-2005, 02:40 AM

Maybe I have some kind of natural vitamin deficiency but yes, I found that a vitamin C drink keeps off drowsiness.

Bill Dungsroman

11-23-2005, 10:46 AM

Hmm, I thought that the RDA thing was a general guide to follow and exceeding by a few hundred percent would be extremely bad if not outright hazardous to your health.

You're thinking recommended dosages for OTC drugs, John. The body takes what it needs and rarely gets in a bind if it gets too much of what it needs - at least in terms of vities. Makes evolutionary sense, right?

I looked at a can of RedBull in the store the other day before work.
Turns out it is 250% of the RDA of B6 not 212% of B12.
Don't know if that makes any difference, you say that B6 is water souluable too, so I'm guessing it is about the same as B12.

Try READING some...oh, I think you know the rest. B6 is a silly important vitamin. It's a precursor for some cofactors crucial to amino acid breakdown. Generally speaking, all the water-soluble vitamins act as enzyme cofactors, which ought to give you a clue as to how relatively inoffensive they are in large doses. See, substances that can cause serious harm, like Rx drugs and such, are usually enzyme substrates - that is, they are the enzyme's specific target for the relevant metabolic pathway. Usually, the more substrate you have, the harder the enzymes work (that is, a lrager percentage of the enzymes in your body are recruited to process the substance). There are usually some feedback mechanisms to halt the process, but they might take some time to act, which is why quick high doses of things can be bad.

Now, water-soluble vitamins are enzyme cofactors, meaning they aren't the target substance, just a vital assistance substance. They're like hired hands, you know? So, you can have some extra hired hands hanging out, but if you have no customers, who fucking cares? So you hand them their pink slip in the liver and fire them out the kidneys. And seeing as how the substances (amino acids, etc.) are good ones, all you do is maximize your effectiveness to the limit of the available substance. And since the vitamins don't do much otherwise (fuckin' hired help :evil: ), there's no concern.

Funny thing about B6: it's acutally of use in high doses, as a shot for Carpal Tunnel and other joint/muscle problems. It's what Rafael Palmiero is claiming he thought he was getting when he was taking steroids, a B6 shot.

I know that high doses of certain things can kill you though, like Iron.

As in ingested iron in tablet form? Not so much. Super high doses wouldn't be fun, sure, but it's not the way to check out.

I was under the impression that any vitamin or supplement could do the same.

Nope! Not any, but certain ones, sure. And don't confuse "vitamin" with "supplement." Sure, you can take a vitamin supplement, but supplements run the whole gamut of non-FDA-approved shit, lots of it entirely non-vitamin in nature. Creatine is a good example. Creatine, or rather Creatine Phosphate, is used as an inorganic phosphate source in the muscles to assist in the recycling of ATP (adenosine tri-PHOSPHATE). ATP is an enzyme cofactor itself, the most important one in your bod. Muscle fibers have these little arms that interact with each other, see, and ATP cleaves off a phosphate, releases the high energy in that bond, and your muscle contracts. Now, you have some random store of inorganic phos in your body. But, you could probably do with some more. Creatine takes up the slack, to whatever max amount of phos your muscles can handle. The rest, well, that's what gives you the shits. More creatine will not equal better muscle performance above a certain maximum, which is variant among the population. It's also a added solute in the muscle tissue, so you get water weight added into the muscle itself, and your muscles look more "pumped." People decry creatine for its "fake" muscle growth, but all I can say is, more water in the tissue isn't such a bad thing regardless.

To me RedBull tastes like carbonated grapefuit juice.
Bawls was like the guy at the store said, kinda tasted like bubblegum.

Hmm, there is always Jolt cola, if you can find a place to buy it. :D

Another healthy alternative!

Glenn

11-23-2005, 11:08 AM

I'm really enjoying the second half of this thread. Dungsroman reminds me of an Indian professor I had for metabolic biochemistry. It was pretty much the same rant, but with the full-on Apu Nahasapeemapetilon accent.

"Okay, we have ten minutes left today.... Any questions? Anybody?..."

~Silence~

"We can just wait here in silence until you start to ask. I know you have questions. Come on and ask, I won't bite."

~muttered question about the Atkin's diet~

"Okay, that was a very, very stupid question, but it leads me to think of an interesting corollary about ketosis..."

Ryan A

11-23-2005, 11:35 AM

~muttered question about the Atkin's diet~

You heard about why Atkins fell off the sidewalk and broke his hip, right?

...he didn't have a balanced diet.

Thank you, thank you very much 8)

Tim

11-23-2005, 02:26 PM

I know that high doses of certain things can kill you though, like Iron.
As in ingested iron in tablet form? Not so much. Super high doses wouldn't be fun, sure, but it's not the way to check out.

What if you're guarding Magneto? OK then, apology accepted.

John Sansker

11-23-2005, 09:40 PM

As in ingested iron in tablet form? Not so much. Super high doses wouldn't be fun, sure, but it's not the way to check out.

Either way I guess.
I have heard of 2 foods that are high in iron content that aren't supposed to be served together in the same meal.
Otherwise you'd get an iron OD.

I've found the information in this thread very interesting.
I never knew all that much about nutrion and stuff, hence my misconceptions about some things.
I only recently started paying any attention to nutrional information after my mother had gastric bypass surgery and had to monitor her food intake.
I remember her telling me the nutrionist told her that it was ok for her to drink milk and I laughed.
I explained that there are more calories in an 8oz serving of milk than there are in 8oz of regular Pepsi.

By far the best thing I've run into though is the dried herrin fillets I picked up to snack on at work one day.
Ate a few, ack, these are "kinda" salty.
After finishing the package, think there were like 6 fillets total, I see the nutrional information on the bottom of the little foam tray.

"Serving size 1.5 fillets"
calories xxx
other stuff xxxx
Sodium 5000mg
This was per serving.

Graeme Dice

11-23-2005, 09:45 PM

I remember her telling me the nutrionist told her that it was ok for her to drink milk and I laughed.
I explained that there are more calories in an 8oz serving of milk than there are in 8oz of regular Pepsi.

While whole milk does have more energy per unit volume than Pepsi, skim milk does not. Nor are those calories provided entirely by sugars, which is a concern for those people who are obese enough that they are at risk for diabetes. Further, the actual amount of milk a person drinks is usually going to be considerably smaller than the amount of soft drinks a person would drink. There are many people who drink two litres or more of pop in a day, and they would be much better served by drinking two litres of water and three cups of milk.

John Sansker

11-23-2005, 09:47 PM

Ooops, forgot to specify.
Even 2% is higher in calories than regular sodas.

Bill Dungsroman

11-24-2005, 07:40 AM

Either way I guess.
I have heard of 2 foods that are high in iron content that aren't supposed to be served together in the same meal.
Otherwise you'd get an iron OD.

Well John, are you gonna fucking tell me which two foods those are? I've got lunch coming up later, you know.

I've found the information in this thread very interesting.
I never knew all that much about nutrion and stuff, hence my misconceptions about some things.
I only recently started paying any attention to nutrional information after my mother had gastric bypass surgery and had to monitor her food intake.
I remember her telling me the nutrionist told her that it was ok for her to drink milk and I laughed.
I explained that there are more calories in an 8oz serving of milk than there are in 8oz of regular Pepsi.

John, you're my pal. So I'll be honest: stop talking to people about nutrition. Your mother had gastric bypass and you told her she was better off drinking Pepsi over milk? For caloric reasons? Whole milk is full of milk protein (specifically, casein). That and calium are why growing lads such as yourself, or whoever, ought to drink it. I could bore you with another dissertation on what the term calorie actually means and how your mode of thought, while not strictly incorrect, isn't really doing you justice. Then again, if your mom is lactose intolerant, maybe she should go with the Pepsi.

By far the best thing I've run into though is the dried herrin fillets I picked up to snack on at work one day.
Ate a few, ack, these are "kinda" salty.
After finishing the package, think there were like 6 fillets total, I see the nutrional information on the bottom of the little foam tray.

"Serving size 1.5 fillets"
calories xxx
other stuff xxxx
Sodium 5000mg
This was per serving.

Yeah, I run into a sodium problem with my snack of choice, beef jerky.

Brian Koontz

11-24-2005, 09:07 AM

There's nothing like a passionate bias against sleep to make humans do anything to stay on their toes.

Must... eek... out... that... extra... hour... of waking...

Must... explore... ways to not kill myself... while... eeking out... that... extra... hour... of waking...

The nice thing about sleep is that it raises the quality of your waking life.

"Robots don't need to sleep. Zombies don't need to sleep. What... are you saying we're not better than Robot Zombies?"

I'm thinking this isn't one of the better aspects of this generation of humans.

"I fucking hate sleep! If sleep was here right now I'd kick its ass!"

"My eyes! My eyes open! I'm seeing, I'm doing, I'm...ZZZ"

Robert Sharp

11-24-2005, 09:11 AM

To clarify, calories are not evil. Calories are what we burn for energy. Too many calories can be a bad thing because you won't burn them all and the leftover "stuff" (that's a technical term) can get converted to things like fat in your body. However, you should not base any specific decisions on what foods to prefer on calories. Your overall caloric intake should be reasonable for your size and activity level, but choosing a soda over milk for caloric reasons is a very bad idea. As a general rule, milk is MUCH better for you because the calories in a soda are EMPTY calories, meaning they give you no benefits other than adding to your caloric intake. Milk, as Bill pointed out, contains lots of good stuff in it, most notably calcium and protein, but also vitamins A and D, which are added to milk.

This reminds me...remember when people stopped drinking OJ because they feared its carbs? I bet there were a lot of sick people for a while :).