Warcraft III warezed already

[Mark Asher]

Saw a thread about it on Gone Gold. Those pirates sure are fast. They apparently have the entire game for download.

[Murph]

I've heard talk of people who had a warezed version over a month ago. Don't know if it was the beta (but I'd bet it was), or some "leaked" build. Of course, it couldn't have been the gold copy, since it wasn't gold at this time, so I wonder if they've got the gold copy now.

Speaking of piracy, and veering way off-topic: I've been fighting the urge to go download the warezed version of Lord of the Rings that I know is out there. It's not on in theaters around here anymore, and not out on DVD yet, so it's really easy for me to justify it to myself...I'd still buy the DVD when it came out, so I'm not robbing anyone of money. I just really want to see the movie again, but don't have the option at this point. It sucks. But I haven't, and I'm sure I won't. It's just tempting.

So, anyway...Yeah -- back to Warcraft III. Warezed, huh? Not surprised, but I wonder if it's the gold copy, or just something that they're claiming is "complete." Like I said, there's been something out there for months.

[Alan Au]

As much as I hate elaborate copy protection schemes, the warez thing is getting out of hand. I don't know which is worse, SafeDisc or looking up keywords in the manual. Gah!

- Alan

[Matthew Gallant]

I don't know which is worse, SafeDisc or looking up keywords in the manual.

SafeDisc, by a country mile.

[Mark Asher]

It's likely that it's the full game. Blizzard is doing a worldwide simultaneous release, so the game must be in duplication already.

Once it goes to the dupe factory, all it takes is for one person to walk out with a copy and post it on a warez site.

[Alan Au]

Welcome to the global marketplace!

- Alan

[Murph]

I wish I was cool enough to hack games. I wouldn't do it (I don't think), and I wouldn't distribute them all over the place via warez sites, but I sure would like to know how.

[Anonymous]

Chances are you can find a DVD transfer of Fellowship of the Rings online because New Line sent out DVDs of the movie to academy award voters as part of their Oscar promotion campaign (same with Black Hawk Down). These will inevitably get to someone who can rip it and put it on the net, hence there are some real high quality MPEGs out there of the movie.

--- Alan

[Murph]

Yeah, Alan, I know for sure that they're out there. I've visited other message boards where people commented that they had downloaded them.

Knowing that they're there makes it so hard to not download one...Just until the DVDs are released!

But I'll be strong. Gandalf would want it that way.

[Chris]

My best friend has a screener copy of LoTR, it looks great and he has burned it to a DVD. The crawl pops up from time to time. He doesn't sell it to anyone though just in case. I have resisted the temptation to get a copy made so far.

Chris :)

[Desslock]

>My best friend has a screener copy of LoTR, it looks great and he has burned it to a DVD. The crawl pops up from time to time.

Those were widely available in New York for 10 bucks starting the week prior to release. I had a copy - the best part was the option to include English subtitles, which were unbelievably bad. The quality was otherwise pretty much normal DVD quality, except occassionally the color was pretty faded.

[Aszurom]

Yeah, I've got that one myself... with the "Property of New Line Cinema" crawler on it an everything.

As for buying the DVD, will I get it in Sept? Nope. I'm waiting for the "real deal" that comes out around xmas. They're not tricking me into buying that one twice, hehe.

Heck, a guy could end up owning 6 different copies of Army of Darkness if you had to get each new "special edition" when it came out.

[Murph]

I'll probably buy both, but I'll sell (e-bay, to a friend, something) the non-collector's edition one once I buy the collector's edition.

My wife's exact words were "You can get both, but there's no sense in owning them both at the same time." It's not even about the money. But I can't wait until November to see it again (though there's always Netflix...), but I want the collector's edition.

[Bub, Andrew]

As for buying the DVD, will I get it in Sept? Nope. I'm waiting for the "real deal" that comes out around xmas. They're not tricking me into buying that one twice, hehe.

I'm not sure what to do about it. I hear the November release has all the extras plus the National Geographic Tolkien biography special. Tempting, especially for any deleted scenes. My question is: will this November release feature the original theatrical release too? Or is it one of those annoying "all the extra footage is spliced into the film" dealies.

I (usually) prefer to get the version I saw in the theater. Often I find the new scenes superfluous or poorly shoehorned into the narrative (See Apocalypse Now Redux)

Anyone have the scuttlebutt?

-Andrew

[Ben Sones]

Actually, in this instance I'd rather have the scenes spliced in. Many "extra scene" features on DVDs focus on scenes that were cut for narrative reasons (i.e. to make a better film). In the case of Fellowship, I'm guessing that all of the included scenes were merely cut for time.

Just picked up the Legend DVD, by the way, and for Legend fans out there, it's a great set. The original theatrical release and the director's cut (which is actually a very different film), all in one package. Nice.

[Sparky]

Just picked up the Legend DVD, by the way, and for Legend fans out there, it's a great set.

Ah, good to know. I could do without a) Tom Cruise and b) the constant downpour of feathery, twinkly fairy-bellybutton-lint in just about every scene of that movie, but Tim Curry was just satan-tastic. I'll have to check it out.

[Brad Grenz]

I understand the Director's cut even has a completely different musical score and over 20 minutes of new footage. Cool that they included both versions, though. God bless Ridley Scott.

[TomChick]

Legend fans? I wasn't aware there were any such creatures.

-Tom

[Mark Asher]

"My question is: will this November release feature the original theatrical release too? Or is it one of those annoying "all the extra footage is spliced into the film" dealies."

Yes. If you want the theatrical release, you need to buy a different DVD. They're going to put out two DVD sets.

[Bub, Andrew]

:evil:

Worse, I won't know which one I want to own until the November one comes out.

[Mark Asher]

There's also going to be a collector's edition DVD set that comes with bookends, I believe.

[Raph Koster]

Actually, every single release of the DVD (there are three) has different stuff on it. :roll: If you're a completist, you actually need to get all three of them.

-Raph

[Alan Au]

If you think DVDs are bad, what about Half-Life?

Half-Life
Half-Life: Game of the Year Edition
Half-Life: Adrenaline Pack
Half-Life: Platinum Collection
Half-Life: Generation

:roll:

- Alan

[Anonymous]

Here's a hypothetical question. I've already pre-ordered Warcraft III. The Special Edition, I might add. That's like $10 more.

Now, if I were to download the warez copy and play that, and I still kept my order and went through with the purchase, would that be wrong?

I'm just wondering whether I should scour usenet or just sit on my hands and learn some patience.

[Reeko]

Now, if I were to download the warez copy and play that, and I still kept my order and went through with the purchase, would that be wrong?


Yes. You are guilty by association.

However, it makes me think about online piracy in general and how to stop it. If the maker, in this case Blizzard, actively searched for warez versions of its games, it could begin downloading them at a frantic pace. Why? To drive up the hacker's bandwidth costs and shut him down. It wouldn't eliminate hard copies (CD's, DVD's, etc.), but it could cripple online distribution.

Or am I an idiot?

[Pie4Foo]

If the maker, in this case Blizzard, actively searched for warez versions of its games, it could begin downloading them at a frantic pace. Why? To drive up the hacker's bandwidth costs and shut him down.

Hmmm...in theory, yes. If there's only one main distribution point and Blizzard can find it, yes. Of course, there's always multiple hacker groups and there's always Kazaa (or whatever's hip nowadays). Hey, once it's out, it's out.

...not that I know anything about these sorts of illegal activities or anything...

On another front, NWN apparently hit the warez front (only?) yesterday. And I'm sure this has already been yakked about, but what's up with the $60 MSRP? Does it come in a special silver tin box?

[Anonymous]

[quote="Reeko]Yes. You are guilty by association.[quote]

See, here's the question. Note that I don't actually plan on doing this. It's just an intellectual excercise at best.

The pirated version is already out there. Once it's on the internet, you can't get it off. It's like trying to remove piss from a pool. It'll be listed on usenet whether I download it or not. I wouldn't be adding to the problem at all by downloading it.

Of course, you get into the moral argument of not paying the developer, but I would under this situation go through with my preorder and purchase the software as well. That, in my mind, eliminates the moral quandry - essentially, the software is already paid for right now.

Now, if I don't go to extraordinary lengths to download it - and I continue with my purchase - then the only possible angle with which what I am doing is wrong is if you interpret the very fact that I am using the warezed software as a tacit agreement and support for the process of warezing software itself.

I can understand where such a view may come from, but I think it's just a bit intellectually dishonest. In my mind, it's a bit like arguing against the ability to make backup copies of software or to use TiVos.

[Dave Long]

But by definition, most warez copies are ripped with the specific purpose of playing the game and usually are missing movies and the other bits that often add to the experience. You're not really playing what you're getting in the box, just a hacked up look-alike.

By downloading the copy that's posted, you're also saying "Hey, I want you to do this again and again. Every game should be posted this way in case I might be buying it." Now how many people do you think really are going to follow your altruistic view and do the same thing?

Not damn many...

But you're helping support and are voting with your download that you want that software out there "just in case".

--Dave

[Xaroc]

If you download it or not it will be out there nothing will change that.

According to their own goofy rules you are buying the right to play the game and not the media it comes on so you are completely justified in downloading it if you are indeed going to buy it.

[Mark Asher]

I just exchanged email with someone at Blizzard. They don't even have copies of it yet. The warez crowd has it before the game company itself has a boxed version. Amazing.

[rdarnese]

They get it from the duplication houses, we have the same problem.

Some kid either works in a dup house, or has a friend that does, etc. He burns an extra copy and gives to his warez friends. They crack it and voila...

Copy protection is pretty pointless these days...

[rdarnese]

On another front, NWN apparently hit the warez front (only?) yesterday. And I'm sure this has already been yakked about, but what's up with the $60 MSRP? Does it come in a special silver tin box?

I think the same thing is going on with WC3 also.

Game companies are starting to wake up to the reality that they can indeed raise the price of the hit games, because folks will still buy them. Same with the reduced box sizes. I would expect to see the same from other companies, on games with a ton of hype, in the near future if these launches are succesful.

Retail can squeeze your margins so tight that you have to find some way to make up the marketing, development, and retail space costs.

[Dave Long]

Considering that the leaks often come from someone that works at the CD duplication plants, it's not surprising. Blizzard sends them the Gold CD and one of the first guys it hits there is moving it onto the crackers. Publishers and developers should band together and fight these duplicators. They're most likely the source of most before zero-day warez.

--Dave

[Dave Long]

Game companies are starting to wake up to the reality that they can indeed raise the price of the hit games, because folks will still buy them.

I think it's a bad idea for PC game makers to gouge. Sony is going to $40 across the board for their own PS2 releases. It only makes PC games even more of a niche item than they already are. People might blow big wads on high profile releases now, but they won't do it multiple times in a year. It just makes console gaming all the more appealing.

--Dave

[Menzo]

It's not gouging if you're only charging what people are willing to pay.

You make the price $59 for the first three months, grab all the people who absolutely MUST own the game the second it comes out, then drop the price to $49. Nice little rush of sales for another nine months, then drop the price again to $39 when the expansion comes out. Six months after that you make the original's price $24.95 and release a Gold version with the expansion for $49.

It's all about maintainging shelf presence and keeping the price as high as possible for as long as possible.

Of course this is just a model for PC games. Console game pricing is way different.

[Mark Asher]

Except that there are only a handful of console titles I'm interested in. Sony could drop the price to $20 on their new games and I'd still want PC titles.

[rdarnese]

Game companies are starting to wake up to the reality that they can indeed raise the price of the hit games, because folks will still buy them.

I think it's a bad idea for PC game makers to gouge. Sony is going to $40 across the board for their own PS2 releases. It only makes PC games even more of a niche item than they already are. People might blow big wads on high profile releases now, but they won't do it multiple times in a year. It just makes console gaming all the more appealing.

--Dave

Oh I agree with you, however large publishers are not about to reduce any of the other costs surrounding game development, marketing, or retail space rent. Instead their going to try gimicky solutions like raising game prices and reducing the size of the boxes and eliminating or reducing manual sizes.

I understand the pressures from all sides, retail PC gaming is a small margin business. I just think that the solutions should rely on smarter business practices and reducing costs in ways that don't impact the customer.

But that's just my 2 cents worth ;)

[Ben Sones]

Publishers aren't responsible for smaller boxes, though--retailers wanted that. Publishers hate it, because they view the box as a marketing tool (and smaller is, well, smaller). And personally, I prefer them. I've heard people complain that manuals are going to get smaller, but hey--most manuals are jewel case-sized these days anyway. You can stick a big manual in the small boxes, however. Witness the nice, 218-page spiral-bound manual that Neverwinter Nights comes with. That's as long as any manual from "the good old days," and longer than most.

[Kevin Perry]

But games are cheaper now.

I remember paying $50-60 for games back in 1990. That's the equivalent of $80+ nowadays.

SNES carts sold for the same price that Gamcube games do now.

Heck, wasn't the Atari 2600 at least $200 when it came out? That's roughly $560 today.

[rdarnese]

No your right, the retailers are driving this, I understand the problems that the publishers face when dealing with retail.

That is the problem ;) (ie the retailers)

The increased price issue, coupled with this, can create another problem though. For the true believer buyers it doesn't matter. For many others though it can add to the already pervasive mood in the PC market that many publishers rush their games to market to meet retail deadlines, with little concern for the buying public.

I think that, more than anything, is what is driving the pirating crowd. There will always be pirates, but having a satisfied customer base can help reduce that. Your customers become the pirating police in many cases, criticizing friends of theirs who have pirated copies of the game from their favorite developer. They know how much that screws over the developer, and reduces the chance that the game will continue to be supported or will make it to a second game.

I think building a rabidly loyal fanbase will do more for a company in pirating control than safedisk can....

But then again if we're talking Blizzard and NWN, then they treat their fan base fairly good to begin with.

[Supertanker]

The other thing on game pricing is to take advantage of the market development funds when they are available. I may not buy NWN this week (yeah, right) and instead wait until next week when the MDF come online to push sales. I figure NWN will be $39.99 then, maybe $44.95. If you wait until the next week, after the MDF is gone, then you will be stuck at the higher price again, so strike while the iron is hot.

Keep an eye on Circuit City, too. I think they are attempting to build PC game sales (following Best Buy's retail model more closely these days instead of Pacific Stereo's?) because they seem to toss in an extra $5 & undercut BB, CompUSA, & the others. I don't think I've paid more than $34.95 for a game at Circuit City because I always just buy the weekly specials advertised in the Sunday circular.

[rdarnese]

That's true too. That is a trend I have seen with launches.

In fact I think AOWII was like 30 bucks this week at Best Buy, which reminds me.... ;)

[Bub, Andrew]

You can stick a big manual in the small boxes, however. Witness the nice, 218-page spiral-bound manual that Neverwinter Nights comes with. That's as long as any manual from "the good old days," and longer than most.

True enough Ben, but NWN sacrifices a nice jewel case for that manual space in the small boxes. Annoying! (Though I appreciate the nice manual size, I like official looking - rather than homemade - jewel display cases.)

[mtkafka]

Down with jewelcases! I'm all for 'nice' paper cases that are slim, Because jewel cases always break for me. Though the NWN paper cases are annoying... actually the NWN stuff (hanky map/thick mini manual) with the game is small on stuff compared to the BG and BG2 stuff I got. Its because of the DVD sized cases. I like the big ones, bigger rules.

etc

[GMicek]

But games are cheaper now.

I remember paying $50-60 for games back in 1990. That's the equivalent of $80+ nowadays.

Heck, wasn't the Atari 2600 at least $200 when it came out? That's roughly $560 today.

Hell, i just looked in some of my old price catalogues from some old games I have and new release games are anywhere from $54.99 to $79.99, with most of them being about $69 or $75. These are games from back in the early 90's mind you. So, a $69.99 game from 1991 would cost $92.14. That's why i just have to laugh when people who try and justify software piracy claim that game prices have gone up. Hell, anyone remember Virtua Racing for the Genesis? It cost about $90 when it came out because it had the extra graphics proccessor in it.

As for the cost of the consoles, i put together a little list of figures from various old school gaming magazine i have. The following are the launch prices for several consoles and how much they would cost now (According to the Federal Reserve Bank Of Minneapolis):

Atari 2600 $199.95 in 1977 . $ 591.60 in 2002
Intellivision $299 in 1979 . $738.44 in 2002
ColecoVision $199.95 in 1982 . $371.51 in 2002
NES $159.99 in 1985 . $266.60 in 2002
Sega Genesis $200 in 1989 . $289.19 in 2002

I also found some interesting examples of game prices when they were released.

E.T. (For Atari 2600) $35 at launch, $65.03 in 2002
Zaxxon (For ColecoVision) $49.99 at launch, $92.88 today.
Falcon 3.0 (PC) $79.95 at launch, $105.30 today
The 7th Guest (PC) $99.99 at launch, $124.07 today.
(The PC game prices are the MSRP, so they were somewhat cheaper in stores)

[Anonymous]

So, the real question... Anyone try WC3 yet? I grabbed it off the newsgroup (not a hint of guilt, either, because my preorder's already in... Nobody's losing a cent to me doing this), but I haven't had the guts to UNRAR it and try it out yet. (Always paranoid about timebombs in warez...)

[Murph]

The problem with those "adjusted for inflation" prices is that I doubt anyone would release games/systems at those prices today. People know the market, and they would never make a system that they would have to sell for $600 to make a profit, because hardly anybody would pay it. I think.

It's all about what's accepted. I suppose that if that was the going rate for consoles, people might pay it. But I doubt it would ever come to that point.

[Bub, Andrew]

The other adjustment not being made is demand. Looking at computer games in particular, say in 1990, sales of 50,000 would be considered amazingly high. Nowadays that's not the case. Demand is higher, the install base is higher, WalMart is selling them (etc.,), that should mean profits are up.

Now, the bugga-boo that counters this argument is that games are MUCH more expensive to make.

Screw it. 20 hours, at a minimum, is well worth $39-50 for my entertainment I say.

[Murph]

Generally, I'd agree, though I may be a bit more picky. I'd not fork over $60 for anything other than Neverwinter Nights and mabye Warcraft III, because I know that there's somewhere between 90-140 hours (and that's just for the single-player campaign) in NWN, and I know how much time my buddies and I spend with Warcraft II now, so I can imagine how many hours I'd log with Warcraft III.

I have to be expecting lots of hours to spend that kind of money, but I'm a little less picky about those $35 games.

[Sean Tudor]

Some prices from AussieLand :

in 1982 I was paying AUD$49.95 (US$28.30) for a full price Commodore 64 game
in 1986 I was paying AUD$79.95 (US$45.28 ) for a full price PC game
in 1994 I was paying AUD$89.95 (US$50.94) for a full price PC game
in 2000 I was paying AUD$99.95 (US$56.60) for a full price PC game

These days the price seems to bounce around between $90 - $100 for a full price game.

The most I have ever paid for a computer game is Morrowind for which I paid AUD$145 (US$82) to import a copy into Australia. The game still hasn't been released here.

[Anonymous]

So glad Australia exists to make Canada feel like their dollar is still somewhat valuable, Sean. :twisted:

[Pie4Foo]

It's not gouging if you're only charging what people are willing to pay.

You make the price $59 for the first three months, grab all the people who absolutely MUST own the game the second it comes out, then drop the price to $49. Nice little rush of sales for another nine months, then drop the price again to $39 when the expansion comes out. Six months after that you make the original's price $24.95 and release a Gold version with the expansion for $49.

It's all about maintainging shelf presence and keeping the price as high as possible for as long as possible.

Of course this is just a model for PC games. Console game pricing is way different.

I would actually think that by pricing a game at $59 is a higher-than-market average (US) might have a negative effect on the customers who are accustomed to paying $49. Let's face it, the majority of gamers do NOT read gaming web sites, and so they are primarily drawn to a game by a store display, the box art or otherwise. Any retailer worth its salt will likely be pushing the new titles aggressively, and customers will QUICKLY note the $59 high price when comparing it to the $49 standard price (as examples). I believe such a price would be a significant deterrent, especially if they've not been tuned to the hype from gaming webzines or magazines.

Hence, I would disagree with price points at release which are higher than normal. Price points below the norm (e.g., SOF 2 at $39 for one week at CompUSA) encourage people to purchase the game who might not normally AND by the time their friends find out, the price is back up to the standard $49. Heck, MoHAA is another solid example: it still sells great and is priced at $49 most places.

Word of mouth counts for quite a bit among gamers. If publishers price games at $59 at release, they are likely going to discourage the initial purchase and hurt their chances at word of mouth within mainstream gaming circles.

....IMHO.

[Alan Au]

Well, there's the psychological trick that higher price make people think the product is more valuable. Besides, they can reduce the price to $49 and make it look like it's a bargain. I agree that it isn't gouging if customers are willing to pay. However, I can tell you that this customer is not willing to pay $59 when there are other equally entertaining games available for $35.

- Alan

[Reeko]

The pirated version is already out there. Once it's on the internet, you can't get it off. It's like trying to remove piss from a pool. It'll be listed on usenet whether I download it or not. I wouldn't be adding to the problem at all by downloading it.

Stealing is stealing is stealing. The software developer/publisher owns the intellectual property. Therefore, they also exclusively own the rights to distribute that property. It doesn't matter if you are planning on buying it eventually, you have no right to the material until it has reached you through authorized distribution channels.

For example: Should you wait until the car you want arrives at the dealership, or should you steal it off the truck, then pay for it later, when it would have arrived at the dealership?

[wumpus]

For example: Should you wait until the car you want arrives at the dealership, or should you steal it off the truck, then pay for it later, when it would have arrived at the dealership?
How about if I make a perfect bit-for-bit copy of the car-- that way the dealer can keep his, and I can get mine!

This is an old, boring argument. As long as you pay for the games you actually play for more than a couple hours, I don't have a problem with it.

[Murph]

As someone pointed out, you're actually paying for the right to *use* the software. It's a license. The distribution is just a necessary evil.

If it wouldn't be a major piracy venue, and if it were feasible due to broadband penetration, I'm sure publishers would gladly let you pay for the software, e-mail you a CD key, and let you download the information directly from their server.

As long as I've paid them for my right to use their software, and I've purchased my license, I can see no issues with playing a "pirated" version, other than the pseudo-ethical problem with supporting the piracy site in question.

[Xaroc]

As long as I've paid them for my right to use their software, and I've purchased my license, I can see no issues with playing a "pirated" version, other than the pseudo-ethical problem with supporting the piracy site in question.

Exactly, at this point you start arguing over driving 56 in a 55 zone. Sure it is technically illegal but it isn't immoral or wrong.

[rdarnese]

Speaking of which....

We're planning on rolling out an option for our lower level titles. You can download the game or you can get a CD with no manual. This way folks who don't want to pay shipping can just download the same game for the same price.

Not exactly what you are talking about, but close.

[Matthew Gallant]

We're planning on rolling out an option for our lower level titles. You can download the game or you can get a CD with no manual. This way folks who don't want to pay shipping can just download the same game for the same price.

And who are we again? I'm somewhat new here.

[Murph]

You can download the game or you can get a CD with no manual. This way folks who don't want to pay shipping can just download the same game for the same price.

I think that's a great idea. Not only do you not have to pay for shipping, but you don't have the infernal three-day wait (or five, if you're me and you've pre-ordered Neverwinter Nights from Gamestop instead of EB like an idiot!) until the game gets there. I'm all about instant gratification, I guess.

[TomChick]

And who are we again? I'm somewhat new here.

Matthew,

Richard Arnesen (rdarnese) is the PR guy for Shrapnel Games, a small company that mainly publishes wargames, but they also published Malfador's Space Empires IV and Crosscut's Runesword, an RPG with an open-ended construction set (think Neverwinter Nights without the budget).

They have a couple of upcoming titles that I'm just as exicted about as any upcoming AAA release. There's a M.U.L.E. "remake" called Space Horse. But I think I'm most eager about Shrapnel founder Tim Brooks' sequel to 101st Airborne over Normandy, a brilliant before-its-time mix of X-Com and Saving Private Ryan.

-Tom

EDIT: Actually, it occurs to me that considering Shrapnel's size, Richard might do more than just PR, in which case I apologize for the restrictive pigeonholing.

[captainwolf]

what if your a try before you buy person and the game (or anything for that matter) and the game has no/inadequate demo. Is it still wrong dwonload a warez copy if you will buy the game if you like it and just delete it if you dont. The developer isnt going to lose any buissiness either way but they may gain buissness if you you like it.

[Brad Grenz]

Rationalizing are we? It's ok to own slaves. They're an inferior species anyway, and who knows what kind of trouble they'd get up to in the wild. At least in my care they have food and shelter and are making a valuable contribution to society.

[mtkafka]

People who warez are the same people who take a date to McDonald's. Cheapskates with no class!

etc

[Xaroc]

BTW, Babages still offers 7 day return on open software. So they just got my business.

-- Xaroc

[GMicek]

People who warez are the same people who take a date to McDonald's. Cheapskates with no class!

etc

Hahaha, no doubt. When I was growing up a number of my friends were really into the whole warez scene among other things. What i noticed is that a lot of people that are really into it do it out of some sort of obsessive compulsive tendency. I've seen people quit their jobs just so they could spend more time dealing with warez. Not installing and using them, but just creating huge archives for their own personal pleasure. It's a little sad actually, but still illegal.

In a somewhat related note I think it's funny that some forms of piracy are socially acceptable while others are not. MP3's a pretty mainstream, but they're no different than grabbing a game from some IRC channel or newsgroups. Same goes for movies. There are plenty of people who have no problem getting the latest album on MP3 or a DivX version of Lord Of The Rings, but they'll scoff at people who download pirated software. I'll never understand that. If you didn't pay for it then you probably shouldn't have it.

[GMicek]

BTW, Babages still offers 7 day return on open software. So they just got my business.

Thank god software stores are more flexible about that now huh? I returned Jazz & Faust to EB the other day(the worst voice acting in a game ever i think) and was thanking my lucky stars that they had a good return policy. I remember before they had that policy i had a major issue trying to return Motocross Madness(couldnt get it working on my machine, so MS said to return it). EB wanted to just exchange it for the same item. I had to have them call MS and get some sort of return code just so i could get store credit, much less my cash back.

[Anonymous]

Tom: I'm really looking forward to 82nd Airborne too. Just out of curiousity has anyone tried multiplayer Airborne 101?

[TomChick]

Just out of curiousity has anyone tried multiplayer Airborne 101?

I didn't even know 101st had multiplayer support? Was that something added in after the fact?

I can't imagine how it would work, since so much of 101st Airborne was creeping across the countryside, worrying about when you'd stumble into some Germans.

-Tom

[Tyjenks]

In a somewhat related note I think it's funny that some forms of piracy are socially acceptable while others are not. MP3's a pretty mainstream, but they're no different than grabbing a game from some IRC channel or newsgroups. Same goes for movies. There are plenty of people who have no problem getting the latest album on MP3 or a DivX version of Lord Of The Rings, but they'll scoff at people who download pirated software. I'll never understand that. If you didn't pay for it then you probably shouldn't have it.

Totally agreed! I have a friend who finds ways out of paying for everything. He will take sneakers back with a little defect in them after playing b'ball in them for a month and get away with it. He had an N64 with several games he received for X-mas one year, went to Toys 'R Us in Feb. of that year, said it was all a gift, and got a couple hundred dollars in credit. I told him he might like Dungeon Siege and should try the demo and he said," I'll just download the whole thing from Kazaa." For some reason, I was still a little taken aback and surprised.

NOw that I think about it, he sounds like a fraudulent crook.

Some people simply justify it to themselves. They believe they simply deserve anything they can get. Screw before you get screwed or something like that. Possibly, they do not have that irritating little conscience that the rest of us may have.

[Alan Au]

Actually, most of 101 Airborne was creeping across the countryside looking for lone German snipers hidden in the hedgerows.

I don't recall the original having multiplayer (?), although it could work if you set it up as a single map engagement, e.g. defend the radio room or some such.

Of course, they'd have to leave out one of the best parts of 101, which is seeing the airdrop results play out. At best, your supply bags of extra ammo and rations are lost somewhere over the French countryside. At worst, your squad lands out of the drop zone in an off-map area, your machine gunner is separated from the group, your captain's chute doesn't open, your lieutenant lands in a tree, and the last half of your squad is lost when the transport takes a flak hit. Ah, good times.

- Alan

[TomChick]

Of course, they'd have to leave out one of the best parts of 101, which is seeing the airdrop results play out.

Yes! I loved that part of the game. It was a brave design choice, killing and incapacitating part of the player's team before the game even started, but it was a vivid way to start out on a "War is hell" note.

-Tom

[Anonymous]

Yeah, 101st did have multiplayer out of the box. I think both sides played out on a map and I imagine it would be a very different experience than the singleplayer game.

I really loved the drops too. It made the game much more unpredictable and replayable. It was great finding a lost cache or trooper out in the wilderness. The aspect of getting lost was also good though it could be frustrating.

There are alot of things I'd have seen changed or tweaked but the most important seem to be included in 82nd. The slow slogging and repetative encounters could be a major drain however realistic they were. I keep bugging Richard on the cdmag boards about 82nd every so often. :)