dungeon seige 2 still an RPG? [Archive]

Robert Sharp

10-06-2005, 12:46 PM

OK, I am thinking about a new purchase, and I am trying to decide between Space Rangers 2 and Dungeon Seige 2. Now, I know no one on this board has talked about SR2 (heh), but this isn't about reading all the posts on the subject. I know it is a good game. I am more curious about how DS2 has turned out. I want an RPG I can play for short periods, somewhat thoughtlessly (before bedtime). Has DS2 improved on the first game enough to make it worth playing? I had a decent time with the first game, but like many others I quickly grew bored of feeling like I was only watching the game play itself. It reminded me of the time I went to Dungsroman's house, and...well, that's another story.

mouselock

10-06-2005, 12:47 PM

Tom Ohle

10-06-2005, 12:49 PM

I had a really good time with DS2 (full disclosure: I did handle a fair amount of online PR for the title)... it's a solid hack-and-slash game throughout. The visuals may not be as detailed as some games these days, but I think they fit the setting well.

Incendiary Lemon

10-06-2005, 12:59 PM

DS2 is really solid.

Wheelkick

10-06-2005, 01:08 PM

The combat is more engaging in the sequel. Your party is less automated, and thus requires more of your input. Which is a good thing, since it really didn't work the other way.

And there is a lot more stuff to do. Or rather, there are more errands to run, in many more dungeons, crypts and underground temples. With the added boatload of stuff to find, equip, enchant, feed your pet or sell. Since they also added skill trees for melee, ranged, nature magic and combat magic there is also an incentive to try out different characters. And they added lots of new pets to have in your party.

I also really liked that this game is very laptop friendly. It got a nice little battery meter in the lower right, alt-tab works well, and it recovers well from a low battery shutdown.
It is the perfect travel companion on your laptop:)

Moore

10-06-2005, 01:19 PM

TomChick

10-06-2005, 01:29 PM

DeepT

10-06-2005, 01:48 PM

But is it a fun game, as in $49.95 fun? Or as fun as any other game you could get for a similar price?

Wheelkick

10-06-2005, 01:59 PM

I would probably get something else, if I didn't play games on my laptop. But my previous comments still stands. DS2 is an improvement over the original, and it is loaded with content, so you'll get good mileage out of it.

But stuff like "uniques" not being unique irritated me to no end...

RepoMan

10-06-2005, 02:19 PM

Personally I am pretty solidly hooked on DS2. Of course, I finished DS1, so obviously I like the basic formula.

DS2 is really a game about controlling your party, not just your main character. It's actually quite different from Diablo in that way. The interface is optimized to let you steer your group of heroes. The main battle decisions are around when and how to use your super-powers, which fill the screen with gibs and are always entertaining to unload. Plus the no-loading-screen engine (well, except for teleports) means you can really get into a trance-like state of just flowing through the whole game.

It's not really difficult, per se, if you manage aggro well. Some of the bosses are a pain, but they're fairly spectacular, so I can live with it.

It works for me :-) I'm going to complete it, I can tell, even though it'll take me another three weeks. (I get only about 6 hours of gaming per week....)

Cheers!
Rob

Timemaster Tim

10-06-2005, 02:33 PM

I played the DS1 demo. It engaged for the start, probably because of the visuals. However, I got bored by the demo, and never bought the game.

I just finished playing the DS2 demo. I'd say they've done a good job addressing the weaknesses I found playing the DS1 demo. The skill tree makes for a bit more charater variety. Combat is little more than just pointing at an opponent and then hitting the potion keys. There appears to be an actual story, and the quests are more engaging.

The bottom line is that I had enough fun playing the demo that I'm thinking about buying the game.

Desslock

10-06-2005, 02:58 PM

I highly recommend Dungeon Siege 2 -- I think it's a MUCH better game than the original Dungeon Siege.

RepoMan

10-06-2005, 03:24 PM

Since this thread arguably is OK to morph into a DS2 discussion...

What's your current party?

I'm on my first playthrough. My lead char is your standard half-giant two-handed melee monster char. His name is Angus McQueed because half-giants sound quite Scottish, with their gloomy demeanor and homes in the hills and all. Then I've got Deru (thrown weapon bad-ass with a Glaive Of The Winds which just kicks all kinds of ass), Finala (I think Plasma Spheres is the single best spell ever made for clearing an enclosed space quickly -- EAT MY FLAMING BOUNCING BASKETBALLS OF DEATH!), and Taar (who's specializing in cold, and who flings a lot of Cold Snaps).

I just reached level 34, so Finala and Taar have fireballs and iceballs, but they suck so much mana that I'm sticking with fireshot II and cold snap. I have a bunch of 15% mana recharge enchanted items, so my mages can pretty much shoot off all day and never run out.

I like the specialized skill trees, and the powers give you a clear incentive to level up particular skills... you definitely have to pick your path in order to maximize your char's effectiveness. I can't see why anyone would pick electricity or death over fire, because fire is just so lovely looking in those gloomy dark dungeons :-)

And I must say, the dragon boss was pretty dang cool, even if his firebreath did knock my poor mages on their asses waaaay too often. Anyone had a good strategy for handling that? Maybe I should just have split back to town and enchanted up a few mega-fire-resistance rings or something...?

Cheers!
Rob

mouselock

10-06-2005, 03:30 PM

Since this thread arguably is OK to morph into a DS2 discussion...

What's your current party?

I ended up with 2 nature mages, a ranged thrower, and Lothar, the half giant fighter of the hill people!

I somewhat miss having a combat mage, but not all that much.. one of my nature mages (my actual character) is specialized in ice damage with a bit of healing thrown in. The other is a summoner/buffer. Her little pet stands up pretty darned well, and the ice mage can at least make a pet to help out with damage.

(Of course, had I known at the outset that a combat mage got pets too I probably would have steered to use one of each class, but I don't think it's necessary.)

I pushed Lothar into dual wield berserking, and the melee guy (Vix) is headed through the throwing/piercing tree. Which of course means I keep finding good combat mage armor, with the remainder of the pieces being nice 2H/Shields and bows. :P

stusser

10-06-2005, 03:38 PM

Dungeon Siege 2 is good for reminding you how great Diablo 2 was and making you want to reinstall it.
Well put.

mouselock

10-06-2005, 04:48 PM

Dungeon Siege 2 is good for reminding you how great Diablo 2 was and making you want to reinstall it.
Well put.

Does this imply that DS2 isn't worth playing, though? If so I'd disagree. If you're simply saying that Diablo 2 still holds the crown in comparison, no argument there.

TomChick

10-06-2005, 06:17 PM

Worth playing? Dude, there are a bazillion games worth playing.

To paraphrase the pig in Animal Farm, some games are more worth playing than others.

-Tom

mouselock

10-06-2005, 06:24 PM

Worth playing? Dude, there are a bazillion games worth playing.

To paraphrase the pig in Animal Farm, some games are more worth playing than others.

-Tom

Okay then, Tom, worth playing in relation to playing Diablo II for the 7th time.

And yeah, there are plenty of games worth playing.. but IMO DS2 is more toward the top of the list than the middle.

Desslock

10-06-2005, 07:30 PM

I was burned out on Diablo 1 by the time Diablo 2 came out, so I didn't play a lot of the sequel --- with that caveat, I liked Dungeon Siege 2 a lot more than Diablo 2. It felt like a deeper RPG, in a more interesting world.

Diablo 2 had nice cinematics, and a great development system, but the combat and exploring were pretty dull, in my opinion. Dungeon Siege 2 had a more interesting story, party-based gameplay, more interesting environments and enemies, better writing, better graphics and music.....a pretty huge improvement over Dungeon Siege 1, which had an accessible interface and nice graphics, but was perhaps the most "generic" RPG ever.

I hope Oblivion blows it out of the water, but Dungeon Siege 2 is a worthy rival to KOTOR2 for RPG of the year so far, and it's easily better than any RPG that came out in 2004.

Doug Erickson

10-06-2005, 11:28 PM

It's official: Desslock really *is* insane, now.

That said, I liked Dungeon Siege 2 a lot, mostly because the super-skills gib everything so nicely.

Gendal

10-07-2005, 12:14 AM

It's official: Desslock really *is* insane, now.

That was my first thought too. DS2 is definately a better game than DS1, but Diablo 2? Still far too shallow in my opinion.

I want an RPG I can play for short periods, somewhat thoughtlessly (before bedtime).

Well that's DS2. Space Rangers is more fun, but it requires some thought and effort. DS2... does not.

Wheelkick

10-07-2005, 02:20 AM

Since this thread arguably is OK to morph into a DS2 discussion...

What's your current party?

My main char was your typical paladin: human fighter, focusing on shield and the tank-skills. Added to that was some ranks in nature magic. I had minor heal and resurection. Pretty good build. My char could take massive punishment, and res and heal any fallen party members.

Lothar became a combat mage, splitting points between death and curse.

Taar became the main healer buffer

Deru became a thrower, but she died a lot. So I repaced her with the sniping elf. But he was a bit boring to play with, so he got replaced by Finala. I split her skills between fire and lightning (a bit dumb in retrospect. should have gone with lightning only since Lothar cast a mean drown with his buffed curses)

Chris Nahr

10-07-2005, 02:28 AM

I played the DS2 demo. Some guy kept ranting at me about his medaillon while we were trudging through tunnel-shaped maps, slaying generic enemies by clicking on them once. There were lots of statistics but I'm not sure about their purpose because the text was basically unreadable at 1280x1024. This is supposed to be a good game?

Jack Black

10-07-2005, 03:48 AM

As soon as it drops to like 24.95, it's well worth picking up. I would probably avoid it at the standard 49.95 pricepoint. It's a decent RPG and much better than it's predecessor, but it's not worth $50.00. Unless of course you are looking for a new RPG right now, and consoles/portables won't fill your need.

Desslock

10-07-2005, 12:28 PM

It's official: Desslock really *is* insane, now. That said, I liked Dungeon Siege 2 a lot,

That was my first thought too. DS2 is definately a better game than DS1, but Diablo 2?.

Well, like I said - I truly overdosed on Diablo 1, which was one of my favourite games of all time -- I literally played through that game close to 300 times to do a crazy strategy guide for it. After spending hundreds of hours on the original, the sequel didn't really grab me. I also think the graphics were worse (and looked less crisp) for the time when they came out, that the monsters were less interesting, that the jungle act was terrible (the only one I really liked was the desert act - the last one was fine, but abbreviated), etc. Aside from the great (unsurpassed?) skill development system, Diablo 2 never grabbed me.

In any event, if you're looking for a PC RPG that came out in the past couple of years, your "good" choices are essentially KOTOR2, Vampire and Dungeon Siege 2, and they're very different from each other, which is cool.

Xaroc

10-07-2005, 01:56 PM

I think SR2 is the better game but not a sit down and play for a little bit kind of game. It has that just one more turn factor that will have you playing it far longer than you planned. For short bursts of time DS2 would probably be the better choice.

-- Xaroc

Unicorn McGriddle

10-07-2005, 02:56 PM

You might want to hold off on KotOR 2 until those guys finish the Restoration Project. www.team-gizka.org

Edit: Also, I hated Vampire: Bloodlines. It turns into nothing but combat in sewers. If you think Dungeon Siege was an RPG, though, you should be fine with that.

MatthewF

10-07-2005, 03:03 PM

I think you can love Bloodlines but hate the sewers at the same time. That's the boat I'm in.

stusser

10-07-2005, 03:09 PM

Dungeon Siege 2 is a worthy rival to KOTOR2 for RPG of the year so far, and it's easily better than any RPG that came out in 2004.
What?

RepoMan

10-07-2005, 07:23 PM

Dungeon Siege 2 is a worthy rival to KOTOR2 for RPG of the year so far, and it's easily better than any RPG that came out in 2004.
What?
What he said :-)

Also see his review of it in this month's PC Gamer (score: 87%, with which I definitely agree, possibly even a bit higher IMHO).

One nit, though, Desslock: the powers give you (e.g.) 3,500% of your normal damage, not 3,500 TIMES your normal damage. That much damage would probably kill everything in the level in one shot!

...now you've got me wishing it WAS like that :-D
Cheers!
Rob

Desslock

10-07-2005, 10:17 PM

Dungeon Siege 2 is a worthy rival to KOTOR2 for RPG of the year so far, and it's easily better than any RPG that came out in 2004.
What?

I was probably unfairly discounting Vampire when I made that post, but what else do you think is a contender? 2004 was a really terrible year for RPGs (excluding MMOs, of course, which probably had their best year ever).

Desslock

10-07-2005, 10:19 PM

stusser

10-08-2005, 08:35 AM

Desslock

10-08-2005, 10:06 AM

Lessee, RPGs better than dungeon siege 2 that came out in the past year or so. Off the top of my head:

-beyond divinity (disappointing, but better than DS2. There was a real game here.)
-fable (also disappointing, also better than DS2)
-NWN: HOU (underappreciated, GREAT game)
-sacred
-freedom force2 (I think it counts as a RPG)
-gothic2
-KOTOR2
-guild wars (not a MMORPG after all)
-vampire

I'm sure there are more. DS2 was polished, and it was certainly better than DS1, but there was very little meat to it.

Let's compare notes:

- I strongly, strongly disagree that Sacred is better than Dungeon Siege 2 - I much prefer the latter. That said, I've been replaying Sacred's main campaign again lately and liking it a bit more than I did the first time through. The fact that we couldn't come up with a better selection for RPG of the Year at PC Gamer saddened me.
- Agree with you on Vampire and KOTOR 2, as I mentioned.
- Both NWN: HOU and Gothic 2 came out prior to the time frame I was talking about (2004/2005) - but are definitely outstanding, for what it's worth.
- Guild Wars - was excluding it as an MMO, although it can mostly be played solely.
- FF2 is a strategy game.
- Haven't tried Fable, but didn't really like what I've seen of it.
- Beyond Divinity - no way is this better than DS2. I liked it, and am probably one of its few defenders (although Divine Divinity is much better).

In some ways, Dungeon Siege 2 also kind of reminds me of the Myth series, which is a good thing - the presentation of its combat, the engaging storyline (again, exponentially better than in its predecessor).

Unicorn McGriddle

10-08-2005, 03:54 PM

You might want to hold off on KotOR 2 ...Edit: Also, I hated Vampire: Bloodlines. .... [Dungeon Siege..blah blah].

Well if your answer is that no recently released RPGs are worth your time, I guess I strongly disagree. Unless you're want to play something much older, those are all decent choices if you're in the mood for an RPG (action/RPG, in the case of DS2).

I enjoyed KotOR 2 when it came out, despite its faults. I've played through it 3 times and lost interest (along with my saved game, which was afflicted by a bug anyway) during a fourth (not back to back, of course -- each run-through was separated by a few months from the last). It's flawed. I would never tell someone it was a classic or anything like that. It's still fun to play if you like the genre. (Can I write for Gamespy now?)

The principal reason I suggest holding out on KotOR 2 is the Restoration Project I mentioned. I honestly believe that when it's done, it will make a great deal of difference. And I also think it will be done relatively soon, say, in a few months.

So basically I'm saying, "Yes, get KotOR 2 if you're an RPG fan, but if you wait a couple months you'll be picking up a better version of the game." I suppose if the consumer can't wait, he can get KotOR 2 right away, play through it the first time with only the patches and enhancements that have been released thus far (and there are a ton), and then come back to it when the Restoration Project is done.

However, the first post would suggest that Robert does not spend his time and money on games lightly. If I were hesitant to shell out on KotOR 2, but did, and then the Restoration Project fell apart (not to be a pessimist, but it could happen), I think I would be annoyed. So, based on his situation, I made my recommendation with a calculated dose of caution. A few months is nothing to somebody who doesn't spend all that much time playing games -- some other game or two can fill the void between now and KotOR 2, if Robert is even interested in KotOR 2 anyway.

As for Vampire: Bloodlines, I was very disappointed. I think we all know what that game's shortcomings are, so I'll leave it at that. (Fun Trivia Fact: among my friends, the FIRST Vampire CRPG is known as THAT GAME because we hated it so much. So on the bright side, Bloodlines is definitely an improvement.)

As for Dungeon Siege 2, I haven't played it. And consequently, I haven't said a damn thing about it. If I dissed the original Dungeon Siege, it was with good reason -- it's the only game I've ever sold. I still have X-Com: Interceptor. I still have Battlecruiser 3000 AD. I still have Lionheart. Dungeon Siege, however, managed to overcome my natural reluctance to part with a game once it's mine. I recovered most of the loss on eBay. Anyway I don't really see myself picking up Dungeon Siege 2.

While we're on the subject, I liked Sacred for what it was. It actually pleasantly surprised me for the most part. I normally don't care for that kind of game. I still never finished it though.

stusser

10-08-2005, 04:10 PM

Just checked... NWN:HOU and gothic2 were both christmas 2003. Pretty close, though.

I guess we'll just have to disagree. Everybody has a slant, I just thought yours was closer to mine. Obviously not, because on the standard 60-100% scale I would give DS2 a 75-80 or so. C, C-.

Wait, no, I can't just agree to disagree... an 87?! You mentioned strong characters and an engaging storyline. Can you name any of the characters off the top of your head? I can... I had my PC, my combat mage, my nature mage, and my archer. What was so engaging about the storyline? It's a bog-standard kill foozle, that shit was obsolete when ultima4 came out in the 80s.

Compare that to baldur's gate, planescape, fallout, KOTOR... damn straight I remember jaheira, minsc, morte, annah, dogmeat, ian, bastila, mission/zalbar the wookie, and HK-47. I remember the plot of those games too. Because it wasn't generic.

DS2 is exactly what we don't need. It doesn't advance the genre in any way. In a month nobody will be playing it and more importantly nobody will remember it. The only kind words I can find about DS2 is that it's easily accessible.

And lastly-- if guild wars is a MMOG then so is diablo2, because they have essentially the same multiplayer mechanic.

Dhruin

10-08-2005, 05:49 PM

I think you're underestimating DS2. The general forum buzz I'm seeing is that most players are pleasantly suprised (no doubt in part because of low expectations, I accept). It's no classic and the individual parts lack depth but it has enough breadth in its various parts that as a whole, it's pretty good.

On stories, I'll never understand why KotOR gets the hyperbole it does. It was just collect the 4x Waterdavian creatures -- oops, wrong game... with a lame twist.

stusser

10-08-2005, 06:21 PM

KOTOR's plot was multidimensional. You didn't just collect the dingbats of power to kill foozle. It was about your identity, your relationships with the party members, and your relationship with the big bad foozle too for that matter.

The DS2 plot is literally to find 4 dingbats of power then kill foozle. That's it. It's an ultima3 level plot. Literally... in ultima3 you collect 4 cards, go to the exodus' castle, and kill him. Actually U3 had a neat twist that DS2 lacks; DS2's big boss is a standard evil wizard, U3's boss is a computer trying to avenge its maker.

FYI-- ultima3 came out in 1983.

Raife

10-08-2005, 06:35 PM

It's an ultima3 level plot. Literally... in ultima3 you collect 4 cards, go to the exodus' castle, and kill him.

EVOCARE

Oh, sorry. Spoiler.

Dhruin

10-08-2005, 06:43 PM

Yes, I remember U3. ;) Those other elements of KotOR didn't work particularly well for me, leaving "collect the widgets". I might have been more interested in the relationship with the NPCs if I hadn't seen most of them before - I've always hated Jaheira/Aribeth/Bastila's whining, Imoen/Mission is boring and so on.

Anyway, plot aside, I still think DS2 has collected a reasonable fan base. I'm getting awfully tired of action RPGs, but DS2 is a reasonable one.

Desslock

10-09-2005, 01:25 PM

Compare that to baldur's gate, planescape, fallout, KOTOR... damn straight I remember jaheira, minsc, morte, annah, dogmeat, ian, bastila, mission/zalbar the wookie, and HK-47. I remember the plot of those games too. Because it wasn't generic..

Those games are all better than DS2, and I don't recall saying the characters were great -- I just said more obviously more effort had gone into making the background lore and a more interesting world, companions banter, have their own quests, etc. -- it's still very much on the "light" side compared to what Baldur's Gate 2 did with that stuff (or Ultima VII, for that matter), but I don't think those are fair comparables -- it's an action/RPG Diablo clone -- and measured against other action/RPGs, it has more depth, while maintaining the fast-paced, action-oriented combat that attracts people to that subgenre.

DS2 is exactly what we don't need. It doesn't advance the genre in any way.

If the genre you're referring to is "RPGs" in general, I'm pretty damn sick of action/RPGs and agree that I would prefer "meatier" role-playing experiences. But action/RPGs and traditional RPGs are really different types of games (in the same way that the linear adventure/RPGs on consoles are fundamentally different) -- if you like action/RPGs, Dungeon Siege 2 is one of the best ones yet, and has a lot more depth than the original Dungeon Siege, with was a great example of "nice gloss, poor substance".

And lastly-- if guild wars is a MMOG then so is diablo2, because they have essentially the same multiplayer mechanic.

Diablo 2 can be played completely stand-alone -- it is almost impossible (at least for the average gamer) to complete Guild Wars without other players - the henchmen just don't cut it for the later missions. Aside from having entirely instanced adventure zones, how is Guild Wars NOT an RPG -- it's not that different from City of Heroes in that regard, since most of that game's missions are instanced as well.

Desslock

10-09-2005, 01:37 PM

I'm getting awfully tired of action RPGs, but DS2 is a reasonable one.

Agree. After playing and/or reviewing, in succession, The Bard's Tale, Heretic Kingdoms, Sacred Underworld and Dungeon Siege 2, it's pretty hard to get excited about the gameplay a typical action/RPG offers.

One of the main things I liked about Dungeon Siege 2 is that, like Divine Divinity, it maintains its simplicity and action-oriented gameplay, but adds in some more traditional RPG elements.

Criticizing it because it's just a "kill the foozle" game, unlike Planescape Torment or Ultima 4, isn't really fair, when there's NEVER been an action/RPG that wasn't a "kill the foozle" game. You're basically just saying you don't like action/RPGs as much as deeper RPGs which emphasize, well, actual "role-playing", as opposed to hack & slashing -- I completely concur with that sentiment -- but if you like action/RPGs, Dungeon Siege 2 is a very good choice, because it's both accessible with good production values and it features a less generic world, character interaction, etc. than the subgenre is typically encumbered by.

Wheelkick

10-09-2005, 01:52 PM

DS2 is exactly what we don't need. It doesn't advance the genre in any way. In a month nobody will be playing it and more importantly nobody will remember it. The only kind words I can find about DS2 is that it's easily accessible.

Your kind words about DS2 is just why we need those kind of games. It is easily accessible. Many role playing games are unnecesary complex.

DS2 caters to the casual player, and provides enough depht and content to fill many gaming hours. That is the kind of RPG that I need, anyway.

stusser

10-09-2005, 02:30 PM

Well, it doesn't advance the RPG genre certainly, but it doesn't advance the action/rpg genre either, which is a telling point.

Divine divinity plays on a different level. It was a good RPG. Not just a good action/rpg but a good RPG period. Beyond divinity not so much.

Seems like review scores are more about comparisons to other recent games than absolutes than they used to be... maybe because the reviewer is a RPG fan and wants to encourage development of his favorite genre. 2004/05 sucked for RPGs, so DS2 got a 87% when in 2002 it would have received the equivalent of a "C" it deserves. But that's a whole other discussion, all I know is that seeing DS2: 87% made me go "what, seriously? why?".

mouselock

10-09-2005, 02:44 PM

Well, it doesn't advance the RPG genre certainly, but it doesn't advance the action/rpg genre either, which is a telling point.

Just because a game doesn't advance the genre doesn't mean it's not worthwhile. By that definition you could pick whatever your favorite game of all time is and make the ludicrous statement "This other game, which is every bit as good in every way that's important to me as my all time favorite game ever, isn't worth playing because it does nothing to advance the genre."

It sounds more like you just don't appreciate the type of RPG/action hybrid that DS2 represents. That's your perogative, however, that doesn't mean that it's undeserving of being considered a good game.

stusser

10-09-2005, 04:18 PM

I played diablo2 for months when it first came out, and still fire it up every so often.

This thread is going in circles, we're arguing opinions like they're facts, so lets end it there.

Destarius

10-09-2005, 10:12 PM

Just because a game doesn't advance the genre doesn't mean it's not worthwhile. By that definition you could pick whatever your favorite game of all time is and make the ludicrous statement "This other game, which is every bit as good in every way that's important to me as my all time favorite game ever, isn't worth playing because it does nothing to advance the genre."

Yes, that appears to be a good summation of the apparent weakness in stusser's argument. Must a game advance the genre to be a good game? Why can't a game be 'just as good' as the other one as mouselock suggests? Sometimes gamers just want more of the same.

Jab2565

10-09-2005, 10:21 PM

Both myself and a friend a mine played Ds2 demo in augest. We both didn't like the game, mainly because your forced to babysit the other members of your team. We liked the loot and the skill trees , but we both came from our deep love and obession of Diablo 2 where you just had one character to work with.

I played divine divinity and loved it, there was a few sticky spots in it but I loved how you could take skills from each of the 3 classes and develop your guy.

Desslock

10-10-2005, 11:55 AM

But that's a whole other discussion, all I know is that seeing DS2: 87% made me go "what, seriously? why?" ... 2004/05 sucked for RPGs, so DS2 got a 87% when in 2002 it would have received the equivalent of a "C" it deserves.

Naw, DS2 is far from a "c" game - it'd be a great action/RPG no matter what year it came out. If you really think it's a C-game, I think you're just bored with action/RPGs, and nothing you've said in this thread has suggested otherwise. It seems like you just don't like the subgenre since the mold hasn't changed much since Diablo.

I'm getting tired of it myself, but the fact that I still had so much fun with DS2 (despite, if anything, expecting to dislike it -- I panned it as "most disappointing" after the 2004 E3) shows how great a game it is -- I'll reiterate: I do not think DS2 is a "decent" game, or "pretty good", or "good since nothing else has come out recently" - I think it's a great action/RPG -- one of the best I've ever played in any year, and far better than its predecessor in every way.

I think I actually gave it an 85%, for what it's worth, but the other PCG guys liked it even more, so it got bumped up a bit.

Destarius

10-11-2005, 01:01 PM

Just picked this up. It's pretty good.

One question though: sometimes I'm talking to someone when I get attacked, then the chat window automatically closes and I lose whatever conversation I'm supposed to have because the NPC runs off - surely this is a horrible design flaw? I don't even know if I've missed quests. Does anyone know how to get around this problem?

stusser

10-11-2005, 01:03 PM

Yeah, that annoyed me too. No way around it.

Desslock

10-11-2005, 01:28 PM

Yes, that is a bad design flaw, which I don't think there's a way to circumvent, other than to reload and advance slower over (or delay advancing over) the triggering point until no creatures are nearby. I don't think you miss anything other than flavour, however.

Mike O'Malley

10-11-2005, 02:16 PM

The reverse is even more annoying: your party members engaging you in random conversation. I think it's supposed to be immersive, but the freaking women in my group open their yaps just as some boss creature starts charging across the screen at me. I wish they had a "SHUT THE FUCK UP" option, because these women have nothing useful to say and apparently are blind to the fact that they're about to get cut in half by a giant wotsis.

I'm not trying to be misogynistic, but the timing and lack of content issues are restricted to the female NPCs; the male half-giant knows enough to keep his mouth shut.

The whole conversation idea was a massive design mistake.

Destarius

10-12-2005, 07:28 PM

I don't think you miss anything other than flavour, however.

From what I can tell, this design flaw can cut off an entire sub-quest branch as it didn't allow me to choose the option which started the quest. My personal experience stems from the part in Act I where you converse with a woman who is trying to rescue her daughter who has been kidnapped by the Ha'ku (sp?). The first time, my conversation with her was rudely interrupted, the dialog window closed, she ran off, and I did not receive a new quest prompt. The second time I managed to finish the conversation (i.e. "yes, I will go save your daughter now" etc.), and received the quest prompt.

Considering that commences the line of entire Haku leadership sub-quests, I'd have missed a significant amount of content! I wonder whether the system is sufficiently made aware of the environment such that it will replace the NPC if you haven't finished your conversation.

Destarius

10-12-2005, 07:46 PM

The reverse is even more annoying: your party members engaging you in random conversation... (and) apparently are blind to the fact that they're about to get cut in half by a giant wotsis.

I finally experienced this once I picked up Deru. Yes, I can't believe that QA wouldn't have picked this up as a bug, unless you've played through this game 5000 times and don't bother reading the conversations anymore.

Unlike the conversation flaw with NPCs above, the window DOESN'T close if you are attacked! So while the NPC conversations are critical and commence quests, they will close abruptly when there is a mob attack, but the annoying intra-party communications will happily proceed while you are being gutted by some "whotsis". How does this sort of thing slip through? It's not a bug per se, but surely this is a serious gameplay issue?

Despite my grouses, though, I am glad that Desslock gave it a thumbs up. This is a very different game from DS1 (which I thought played itself).

Incendiary Lemon

10-12-2005, 07:56 PM

The rescue the daughter quest can be picked up again in the Dryad Villiage. Got the infirmary.

Huzurdaddi

10-14-2005, 08:23 PM

So I wonder who the PM was who deceided that the save game functionality you see in all other games was 'messed up'? Was he fired? Is it possible to know what game he will be working on next so that I can avoid it?

The fix for DS1's 'problem' of limited need for human interaction is constant holding of the right mouse button. That seems logical ... no wait, it's retarded. I wonder if the same PM was involved?

The story may be better but in so many ways this is a huge step back compared to DS1. I am very sorry that I bought this at gamestop and that they do not take returns anymore.

Desslock

10-16-2005, 11:23 PM

The fix for DS1's 'problem' of limited need for human interaction is constant holding of the right mouse button. That seems logical ... no wait, it's retarded. I wonder if the same PM was involved?.

You can revert to DS1's auto-attack in the options menu, which I did almost immediately. The "addition" of clicking to attack was added for people who preferred that mechanic in games like Diablo and Sacred.

Dirt

04-14-2006, 11:02 AM

This game isn't getting enough love. It's 'fun' and has really helped to satiate my party RPG appetite.

awdougherty

04-14-2006, 11:11 AM

I really enjoyed it myself, but I played it purely as a co-op online game. Not sure what I would have thought as a single player game.

Glycerine

04-14-2006, 01:39 PM

Dungeon Siege 2 is good for reminding you how great Diablo 2 was and making you want to reinstall it. I'm not sure whether that's the desired effect, since it wasn't developed by Blizzard, but, yeah, in that regard, a very solid game.

-Tom

Nah, it never made me yearn for Diablo 2. That game is dead, buried, and should stay that way. (At least for me, I know there are stil lots of people who play it on Battle.net.)

DS2 is a pretty solid game that kept me interested long enough to finish it. My only complaints were the shitty voice acting and the story never really grabbed me.

Glycerine