Update: Forcible evictions in NO.

[Midnight Son]

It looks like this has started. They are being really inflexible about this. MSNBC showed this wealthy lawyers whose house was undamaged, in a dry part of town and he had plenty of supplies and generator. He was pissed and said if they tried to force him out there was going to be shooting. I think they need to use a little common sense and judgment here.

Update: Honore says Feds won't enforce this.

[Brian Rucker]

I think it's the residents that need to show the judgement. This city is a mess and even the dry areas aren't safe from waterborne diseases spread by animals and insects. If it's a citywide evacuation, it's a citywide evacuation.

Don't know why I've got the lyrics of an old Flying Burrito Brother's song in my head these days.

This old earthquake's gonna leave me in the poor house
It seems like this whole town's insane
On the thirty-first floor a gold plated door
Won't keep out the Lord's burning rain
The scientists say
It will all wash away
But we don't believe any more

[Duality]

Eviction or evacuation?

While technical definitions could be similar for each word, the context of each are entirely different.

[Midnight Son]

Good point. It seems my mind was leaning a certain way.....

[Rollory]

I think it's the residents that need to show the judgement. This city is a mess and even the dry areas aren't safe from waterborne diseases spread by animals and insects. If it's a citywide evacuation, it's a citywide evacuation.

It is PRIVATE PROPERTY. The "authorities" do not have the RIGHT to insist on an evacuation. All they have is POWER. Just like Mao.

If the owners want to stay there, that is THEIR BUSINESS and nobody else's. Just because you think their judgement is wrong does not give you the right to impose your opinion on them, particularly when they are not hurting anyone by doing so and not asking anything in particular from the government other than to be left alone.

That the area is flooded and poisoned and unlivable is irrelevant to whether property owners have the right to occupy property that they have full legal title to.

[Linoleum]

I find this (http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2005_09_04-2005_09_10.shtml#1126215739) to be equally disturbing.

[Jason McCullough]

Don't you think Mao is a little exaggerated? :)

Lino, you beat me to the gun thing. What the fuck is going on down there?

[Nick Walter]

It is PRIVATE PROPERTY. The "authorities" do not have the RIGHT to insist on an evacuation. All they have is POWER. Just like Mao.


Nice use of caps, but still incorrect. There are circumstances when government can trump property rights for the greater good. Eminent domain is a good example of this principle.

In this case, the city is lawless and the only way to ensure the safety of the workers trying to clean up the mess is to clean the city out of residents. It's a drastic step certainly, but the situation is horrible and calls for drastic steps.

[Euri]

I am about the biggest screecher for civil rights there is, but even I agree here. These people need to *go* without any exceptions. The city is not safe, and there is no reason to be there, especially if you're rich. Pack up and take your valuables with you. Fly to Bermuda. Take a holiday.

[playingwithknives]

Im sure some are worried about returning to their property to find its no longer their property. I wouldnt be suprised to see a few companies making some land grabs, or landlords demolishing their tenants flats where they couldnt before.

As for the Gun thing, you know the right to bear arms thingy you yanks love so much ?

Its gone.

The Interdictor has a few words to say on it.

[Lunch of Kong]

What rights do you have under martial law anyway?

[Menzo]

Not to mention one of the issues is infectious disease, which is a public safety issue even if you're in your own home.

[MikeSofaer]

Louisiana doesn't have a martial law provision in the constitution.

As far as the guns, you could argue that anyone still living in the city is resisting legitimate law enforcement activities (since the evac was mandatory) and may be disarmed.

[Ben Sones]

Im sure some are worried about returning to their property to find its no longer their property. I wouldnt be suprised to see a few companies making some land grabs, or landlords demolishing their tenants flats where they couldnt before.

In fairness, if everyone would *go* like they have been ordered to, there wouldn't be any landlords or companies in the city to do those things.

[Moore]

Except they arent 'evaucuating private security brought in by biz, or disarming those particular private citixens who are alos presumably 'in danger' and dont even have any stake in the area.

[Ben Sones]

Well, that's a problem, then.

[Linoleum]

Louisiana doesn't have a martial law provision in the constitution.

As far as the guns, you could argue that anyone still living in the city is resisting legitimate law enforcement activities (since the evac was mandatory) and may be disarmed.

Which would be just as unconstitutional under Louisiana's constitution as declaring martial law. Details, details...

[MikeSofaer]

Louisiana doesn't have a martial law provision in the constitution.

As far as the guns, you could argue that anyone still living in the city is resisting legitimate law enforcement activities (since the evac was mandatory) and may be disarmed.

Which would be just as unconstitutional under Louisiana's constitution as declaring martial law. Details, details...

Why? The police can temporarily disarm a citizen in the process of carrying out other duties. If a bank is being robbed and the police show up, and you are an innocent customer, and they tell you to put down your gun and move to the other side of the room, they have that right.

[Ben]

Just because it's better than it was last week doesn't make this not an emergency zone.
I'm a big rights screecher _and_ I don't share Euri's socialism wrt property, but this is completely within the purview of disaster response and law enforcement.

The "disarming everyone but private security" is kind of scary. Blackwater employees are private citizens like anyone else, in theory.

[Linoleum]

Louisiana doesn't have a martial law provision in the constitution.

As far as the guns, you could argue that anyone still living in the city is resisting legitimate law enforcement activities (since the evac was mandatory) and may be disarmed.

Which would be just as unconstitutional under Louisiana's constitution as declaring martial law. Details, details...

Why? The police can temporarily disarm a citizen in the process of carrying out other duties. If a bank is being robbed and the police show up, and you are an innocent customer, and they tell you to put down your gun and move to the other side of the room, they have that right.

That is a far far cry from stopping by your home and demanding your firearms.

[Jason McCullough]

The gun confiscation thing is insufferable. Way to go FEMA, confirm the black helicopter crowd's suspicions.

[MikeSofaer]

Louisiana doesn't have a martial law provision in the constitution.

As far as the guns, you could argue that anyone still living in the city is resisting legitimate law enforcement activities (since the evac was mandatory) and may be disarmed.

Which would be just as unconstitutional under Louisiana's constitution as declaring martial law. Details, details...

Why? The police can temporarily disarm a citizen in the process of carrying out other duties. If a bank is being robbed and the police show up, and you are an innocent customer, and they tell you to put down your gun and move to the other side of the room, they have that right.

That is a far far cry from stopping by your home and demanding your firearms.
In normal circumstances, agreed. In this case you are under a mandatory evacuation order that they need to enforce. Anywhere someone is living is an active law enforcement scene.

[Midnight Son]

Update: Honore says Feds won't enforce evacuation.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050911/ap_on_re_us/katrina_washington

Army Lt. Gen. Russel L. Honore said military units are continuing to provide food and water and other aid despite the order, which he indicated is the responsibility of state and local authorities to enforce.

"Federal troops will not be involved in the direct evacuation in any way, of any one, from their home. That is a local and state law enforcement task not to include federal troops," Honore told CNN's "Late Edition."

He added that local officials and the National Guard also are providing food and water to people who have stayed.

Thousands of residents are defying orders to leave the city, but security forces were not physically forcing anyone to go. The mayor, Ray Nagin, had warned that residents could be forcibly removed, but authorities have been reluctant to take that step.

Honore, who heads the military's Joint Task Force Katrina, said that over the next three days, officials should learn how many people died in New Orleans. He said the preliminary figure of 10,000 offered last week by some officials was "a number we'd be very happy to be wrong about."

Honore also addressed the issue of media access during recover efforts. The Bush administration, challenged in court by CNN, agreed on Saturday not to prevent the media from following the effort to recover the bodies of Katrina victims.

On Thursday, Honore said the media would be allowed "zero access" to recovery efforts. But on Sunday, he said reporters and photographers have "total access" to the area.

"I can't swing a dead cat without hitting a reporter," Honore said.