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Kitsune
09-03-2005, 04:52 PM
Everyonce in a while, a list your favorite of (type) thread is fun, especially if you don't take the lazy way out and actually comment on your choices. So please join me, pick a few categories (they needn't be mine, obviously) and put into this thread all your love for the best gaming genre on Earth!

Best Graphics (2D): Seiken Densetsu 3. There are games that are more technically accomplished, but I think this action RPG still has the best spritework and most accomplished design I've ever seen in 2D.

Best Graphics (3D): Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne. From the stark vision of the character and monster design, to the careful limiting of color, to the beautiful geometric designs, Nocturne benefits from one of the most meticulous aesthetic imaginings out there.

Best Soundtrack: Chrono Cross, gorgeous instrumentation and beautiful ambience. Not many soundtracks aim just for creating beautiful sound these days, but this one did.

Best Growth System: General Skill Allocation. The one that's used in so many RPGs where you somehow raise points in things like swordfighting, mountaineering, lockpicking, writing, conversation, and so on and so forth. I always find these fascinating to tinker with and they always seem to make me consider my choices the most. (Note: I'm talking about battle skills or affinities, which I'd consider separate systems.)

Best Additional System: Tales of the World: Narikiri Dungeon's series costume changes. It is so incredibly cool and deep. Not only can you alter the states of each costume, but it can change your abilities and affinities on top of a general class system, which makes it probably the most flexible ability system I've ever seen. A runner-up would probably be Dark Chronicle's Invention System.

Best Base Mechanic: (by which I mean a basic component of the game, like Pokemon's monster capturing) MegaTen's monster conversations and negotiation, easily.

Best Battle System: Grandia's IP gauge system just takes the cake. It allows for so much on a basic level and is so simple to understand, its kind of a shame it hasn't yet become a genre standard.

Best Sidekick Character: Han-pan, from Wild Arms. Still memorable after all these years.

Best Main Character: Valkyrie Lenneth, from Valkyrie Profile. A very unique design, an excellent protagonist, powerful, fun to play around, fabulous story aound her, and a very cool role to play as.

Best Supporting Character: Judas, from Tales of Destiny II. The Tales of Destiny games are known for their braindead protagonists whom everyone teases, Judas is probably the best straight-faced badass with cruel comments I've ever seen in the genre, plus his character makes him look like some sort of deadly hawk and he's one of the most versatile characters, strength and potential avenue wise out there.

Most Memorable Dungeon: The last dungeon in Dragon Quest III is the most treacherous, memorable, RPG hardcore overload I think I've ever played.

Best Bonus Dungeon: There's lots of unique dungeons out there, but I have to tie it between Lufia's classic Ancient Cave dungeons and the After-Ending bonus dungeon in Star Ocean III that is so monumentally huge (what it has 200 floors?)

Nastiest Challenge: The entirety of Dungeon Master, I can think of harder games, I can think of games with even more deadly gameplay conceits, but I can't think of one whole gauntlet connected together like the riddles, traps, curses, dangers, monsters and constant surprises that met you on every floor of Dungeon Master.

Best Mini Game: Chocobo Hot & Cold from FFIX, easily. I consider it half of what I like the game so much. I think paid more attention to it than anything else in the entire game.

Best Monster Design: The Dragon Quest series as a whole, if I had to pick one game, it would probably be VI or VIII, but the series shares so many common monsters, it seems a shame not to include them all, since just every single monster since the beginning has been pure gold. They have more unique behaviors and strategies to them, as well as, downright odd design than any other RPG series I've played.

Most Unconventional: Giftpia, for sure. There aren't too many RPGs where the point of the game is to save money to prove you're a man and not many games would think to implement role-playing along those lines.

Best Writing (Japanese): Black/Matrix. A game about inverted morality and warped sense of morals, this is one tightly written game. No line of dialogue seems out of place and its all performed (weirdly enough) as if it were a stage play. It works very well and there are tons of memorable lines and extremely careful use of language.

Best Writing (English): Planescape: Torment. On this forum, I don't really think I need to say anymore. :P

Best Ending: Dragon Quest VI. If you've never played the game I won't spoil it for you, just incase a remake makes its way over there one day. One word: totally, utterly brilliant.

Funniest RPG: A tie between Tomato Adventure and Tales of Destiny II. The former is the game Alpha Dream made before Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga and I consider even funnier than that game, the latter, sure has classic Tales Bad Storytelling, but the dialogue is so shit-your-pants hilarious (and there's SO MUCH OF IT) its almost hard to keep your hand on the controller at times.

Then the random awards:

The "Okay, we REALLY don't need anymore stats!" award: Tales of Destiny II, I think there are almost 50 different stats to remember in this game and about 30 of them aren't listed in the menu status screen. Yeah, that's overdoing it.

The "Why do they do that?" award: Why is it everyone always justs stands and watches when the villain is doing something heinous right in front of them? This question is no more aggravating then it is in Wild Arms 2.

The "Best Non-RPG spin-off taken from an RPG series" award: Slime Mori Mori Dragon Quest, a Zelda-like action adventure game that is so original, quirky and downright awesome it really deserves a wider audience.

Best Plot Twist in an RPG: Chrono Cross, its really, really quite special if you've played Chrono Trigger, but there are several really good ones here.

Best Rare Item: Leaves of the World Tree in Dragon Quest, or Metal Babble Shields in the same.

-Kitsune

Kaigen
09-03-2005, 04:52 PM
I love RPGs.

Just not the kind of RPG you're talking about (except Torment).

dmiller
09-03-2005, 04:56 PM
I severly disliked Crono Cross so much that I didn't get past the first scene (in the village).

Matthew Gallant
09-03-2005, 05:01 PM
I love RPGs.

Just not the kind of RPG you're talking about (except Torment).
What type do you mean-- like patient and naughty nurse?

Matthew Gallant
09-03-2005, 05:06 PM
I'm going to argue best minigame is actually the theater in Suikoden III. The all-ninja Romeo and Juliet especially.

Kaigen
09-03-2005, 05:13 PM
I love RPGs.

Just not the kind of RPG you're talking about (except Torment).
What type do you mean-- like patient and naughty nurse?

The words "Japanese" and "console" come to mind.

With a few exceptions.

Jason Becker
09-03-2005, 05:45 PM
I love RPGs.

Just not the kind of RPG you're talking about (except Torment).
What type do you mean-- like patient and naughty nurse?

The words "Japanese" and "console" come to mind.

With a few exceptions.


Same here. Tried several times but they just don't do it for me.

Dante Rising
09-03-2005, 06:33 PM
i absolutely love RPGs, but I absolutely hate:


-the Japanese obsession with random battles every three seconds

-the inability for American and Japanese publishers to do consistent, quality translations of a game's script and dialogue. For some reason, when an RPG gets translated, it is somehow regressed to bland, childish wording:

JAPANESE DIALOGUE:
"The malevolent wizard and his twisted machinations can be thwarted only through perseverence and sacrifice.

ENGLISH TRANSLATION:
"If we're strong we can stop this evil wizard!!!"


JAPANESE DIALOGUE:
"The aroma is bittersweet."

ENGLISH TRANSLATION:
"That doesn't smell so good."


JAPANESE DIALOGUE:
"You've taken everything from me! Everything that I treasured has been consumed by your hatred and arrogance! In my weakness I allowed you to lead me down this path of corruption which has destroyed our country, our families and our friendship. Enough! This madness must end!

ENGLISH TRANSLATION:
"!"

zabuni
09-03-2005, 06:35 PM
Best Graphics (2D): Seiken Densetsu 3. There are games that are more technically accomplished, but I think this action RPG still has the best spritework and most accomplished design I've ever seen in 2D.



And here we have one of the great aggravations of the American RPG gamer. SD3 never came out here. From the rumors I've heard, it was translated, but never released here. Instead we got it's stupid cousin, Secret of Evermore. Not a bad game, but it doesn't hold a candle to the graphic design of SD3.

I really, really like SD2 (Secret of Mana). It was the first RPG that I ever finished. Seeing pictures of it's sequel in Nintendo Power and never getting it was annoying. Not that such things didn't repeatedly happen in the SNES days.

One thing that gives me really want the Revolution is the possibility that SquareEnix might start translating some of their unreleased games that never made it over here. SD3, Bahatmut Lagoon, Terrinigma, DQ5, DQ6. All downloadable and legal.*


*Yes yes, I know about the fan translation and emulation. It would still be neat to play them on a tv screen, full and legal.

Dante Rising
09-03-2005, 06:56 PM
Best Combat: Baten Kaitos (Gamecube) and Sudeki (Xbox)

Best Environment: Final Fantasy X

Best Cast of Characters: Shadow Hearts: Covenant

Gordon Cameron
09-03-2005, 06:59 PM
Best Graphics (2D): Maybe Sacred.

Best Graphics (3D): Morrowind (especially with the face add ons)

Best Soundtrack: Ultima IV, Baldur's Gate 2

Best Growth System: Dunno, different systems seem to work all right for different games.

Best Additional System: Dunno

Best Base Mechanic: I like the combat in the Avernums. Kotor's is pretty good too.

Best Battle System: ^

Best Sidekick Character: HK-47, Ignus, Minsk, Iolo, Sarevok

Best Main Character: Your guy in KOTOR

Most Memorable Dungeon: Last dungeon in Avernum 2... Last dungeon in Ultima V...

Best Bonus Dungeon: Watcher's Keep

Nastiest Challenge: Draconis in BG2: ToB

Best Mini Game: Arcomage

Best Monster Design: Dunno

Most Unconventional: Dunno. Gothic, maybe.

Best Writing (English): PS T I suppose. Or Fallout 2 maybe.

Best Ending: BG2 ToB, after all you've come through.

Funniest RPG: I'm not sure if I've ever played a funny RPG. I guess BG2 or KoTOR for Minsc and HK47's coments.

The "Best Non-RPG spin-off taken from an RPG series" award: HoMM

Best Plot Twist in an RPG: I can't think of any that have really knocked me out.

Best Rare Item: The multi-item pieces in BG2, like the dragonskin armor or the Carsomyr Holy Avenger. The Human Skin armor was conceptually great for playing evil, but I don't think I found it that useful statswise.

Warning
09-03-2005, 07:07 PM
I have CD's with Might & Magic 3-8 around here somewhere. I have this fantasy that I'll start with 3 and slowly work my way through till 8.

Those were some hard, big games.

On the console RPG side, I remember being floored by the Opera scene in Final Fantasy III/VI. I'd never seen anything like that and I was hooked from that point forward.

Graeme Dice
09-03-2005, 07:10 PM
Best Base Mechanic: I like the combat in the Avernums. Kotor's is pretty good too.

I'd have to go with the Nahlakh/Natuk system here.

[qupte]Nastiest Challenge: Draconis in BG2: ToB[/quote]

Install Ascension, and Draconis becomes a speedbump compared to his Father.

Gordon Cameron
09-03-2005, 07:23 PM
In that case perhaps I won't install Ascension, since the Draconis battle had me ready to hurl my computer through the window. :)

Kalle
09-03-2005, 07:40 PM
Kitsune, the only freaking game you mentioned that I have played is Chrono Cross. Oh, and Torment, of course. And I love RPG's. So clearly there is something wrong with your list. :wink:

Anyway, here is my list.

Best RPG makers ever: Black Isle Studios

snowmyr
09-03-2005, 08:02 PM
JAPANESE DIALOGUE:
"You've taken everything from me! Everything that I treasured has been consumed by your hatred and arrogance! In my weakness I allowed you to lead me down this path of corruption which has destroyed our country, our families and our friendship. Enough! This madness must end!

ENGLISH TRANSLATION:
"!"

Brilliant

olaf
09-03-2005, 08:14 PM
Yeah and where in the hell are the good PC RPGs these days? Its bordering on a dead genre.

olaf

copeknight
09-03-2005, 08:55 PM
Funniest RPG: I'm not sure if I've ever played a funny RPG. I guess BG2 or KoTOR for Minsc and HK47's coments.


Keef the Thief

Flowers
09-03-2005, 09:04 PM
Yeah and where in the hell are the good PC RPGs these days? Its bordering on a dead genre.

olaf


I was at target and walmart today, looking for a PC RPG to buy. I just stood there, and stood there, and stood there. I kept thinking, "Hmm, maybe I'm not seeing it, there has to be one. It must be because I am hungover." So I basically went from box to box, pointing so I didn't lose my place, checking the back of every box that wasn't Barbie Fashion Studio to see if it was an RPG. And no, Dungeon Siege II doesn't count.

Nothing.

MarchHare
09-03-2005, 09:45 PM
JAPANESE DIALOGUE:
"You've taken everything from me! Everything that I treasured has been consumed by your hatred and arrogance! In my weakness I allowed you to lead me down this path of corruption which has destroyed our country, our families and our friendship. Enough! This madness must end!

ENGLISH TRANSLATION:
"!"

Brilliant

Also, don't forget the phrase "..." for seemingly every third or fourth line of dialogue.

And yeah, I really can't stand Japanese console RPGs either. I've tried to get into them, but I just can't. I think I missed out on so many great games because I associated all RPGs with having random battles and combat where your team and the opposing team line up on opposite sides of the screen and politely take turns attacking each other. It wasn't until NWN and KOTOR (and now WoW) came out that I discovered that RPGs are probably my favourite genre, it's just that I'd only played the wrong kind of RPGs before. I've never experienced either Baldur's Gate, or Torment, or dozens of others that are now considered classics. :(

roguefrog
09-03-2005, 10:47 PM
Best Characters, Story, Writing, Setting, Voice Acting, and Journal System - Planescape: Torment

Best Character Development/Level System - SPECIAL (Fallout)

Best Loot - Kill Sword (Hacked item spawned from the console in Baldur's Gate II)

Best Foozle - Sarevok

Best Combat System - The Temple of Elemental Evil

Best Costum Design - Blue Jumpsuits (Fallout)

Best RPG Studio - Black Isle Studios

Best Console/Japanese RPG - Earthbound

Sebmolo
09-03-2005, 11:32 PM
Best new old school RPG: Wizardry 8. One of these days I'll finish it.

Brad Wardell
09-03-2005, 11:45 PM
I love RPGs too but I am not IN love with them. ;)

For me, I'd kill (the corpses in the other room are my proof) for another Baldur's Gate title.

Or how about a sequel to Planetscape Torment?

roguefrog
09-04-2005, 12:38 AM
Making a sequel to Torment would be a diservice to it. It was ment to be a one-off/stand alone game with a beginning and end. Making a sequel would only ruin the original games closure. Now I'm all for another game in the Planescape setting and of the same breed.

awdougherty
09-04-2005, 12:47 AM
Best Characters and Story - Planescape, Deus Ex
Best Combat - Temple of Elemental Evil, Icewind Dale
Best Setting - Darklands, Fallout
Best World - Ultima 7, Ultima 5
Best Soundtrack - Icewind Dale
Best Plot Twist - Maybe the one in KOTOR... might not be "the best," but I thought it fit in perfectly with all things Star Wars
Most Satisfying Ending - BG2 TOB, Bard's Tale 3 when my thief sneaks all the way up and takes out Tarjan
Best Character System - Darklands, Fallout
Best Online Experience - Neverwinter Nights, Icewind Dale
Best Villian - Shadowlords in Ultima 5, The Guardian
Special Shout Out - Wasteland... really great time playing this

Sapper Gopher
09-04-2005, 06:35 AM
Nastiest Challenge: Draconis in BG2: ToB
Install Ascension, and Draconis becomes a speedbump compared to his Father.
Is that the mod where when you meet the Bhaalspawn dragon you have to fight him and another dragon and a bunch of drakes at once, and he gets to cast spells? I made a post in the greatest gaming moments thread about how hard that was. Truly the last great challenge for BG2 characters. And to think I got frustrated when I met the first bounty hunter in BG1.

Brian Rucker
09-04-2005, 07:13 AM
RPG > JRPG
RPG > CRPG

That said...keeping this limited to computer/console games:

Best Characters and Story - Planescape
Best Combat - Mount & Blade
Best Setting - Morrowind
Best World - Daggerfall
Best Soundtrack - X-Men: Legends/Vampire: Bloodlines
Best Character System - Darklands
Best Online Experience - Star Wars Galaxies
Special Shout Out - Jagged Alliance - not exactly roleplaying but fun use of characters and characterizations.

Bill Dungsroman
09-04-2005, 01:08 PM
I guess this is as good a place as any to ask this. Look, I would really love to pay Gothic 1. But, unfortunately, not "$70-100" love, y'know? So, mmmmmm, if anyone has any other "ideas" they can PM me. Even an URL will do. Thanks, nothing to see here.

wildpokerman
09-04-2005, 02:11 PM
I was reading Kitsune's list and I realized most of my nominations would go to one game but I'll try to follow his pattern.

Best Graphics 2d: Probably Eternal Mana

Best Graphics 3d: I'd agree with Nocturne but on the PC I'd give it to KOTOR. Yes I know kotor was console too but I don't play with the console where every game is available for PS2 or PC.

Soundtrack: Morrowind

Growth system: I'd say Morrowind again, you're rewarded for specializing in one area but you can switch it up from level to level to make a broad based characacter if you want to.

Additional system: I like the SMT: nocturne system of ingesting the magatama (spelling) to determine your skills.

Base mechanic: Um level up and kick the bad guy's ass? I'd say the negotiation in nocturne was it's weak point, the awesome part was the combining. I really liked the store mechanic in Eternal Mana.

Best battle system: I'm partial to the bioware real time pausible. Do your gruntwork in real time but pause for spells and special orders.

Best sidekick: HK-47 or Bastila Really cool plot twists with both of them.

Best main: Kotor main. Can't beat the role playing choices he makes.

Best supporting: The dude in fallout from your pod with the machine gun chair, awesome.

Memorable dungeon: Star forge in kotor.

Bonus dungeon: Diablo II cows.

Challenge: Diablo II hardcore

Mini game: Most mini games suck but kotor had the best set of them with races, pazzak and the shooting of sith attackers.

Monster design: Kotor, but most were only cool because they were predesigned in the movies. Best original monsters for the game would be SMT: nocturne. I'd have to give a big hats off to WOW too. Awesome if you played Warcraft II and III.

Unconventional: Fallout 1-2.

Japanese writing: Disgaea

Ending: FF VII, you know who the big bad ass is, you learn about the backstory and then you duke it out and he doesn't dissapoint.

Funniest: Disgaea

Too many stats: I love stats. I'd be happy if my character were one huge spreadsheet.

Too few: Pirates

Spin off: FF tactics

Plot twist: Kotor, it tied into everyone you knew already.

Why do they do that: Why is every savior of the world a young Japanese boy? Can't fat middle aged guys ever pull it off?

Rare item: Diablo II had a ton of great stuff

Yes some of these aren't pure rpgs but they implement the RPG elements they have extremely well.

Kunikos
09-04-2005, 11:43 PM
Most Attempts at Humor: Anachronox

Crispus
09-04-2005, 11:48 PM
I guess this is as good a place as any to ask this. Look, I would really love to pay Gothic 1. But, unfortunately, not "$70-100" love, y'know? So, mmmmmm, if anyone has any other "ideas" they can PM me. Even an URL will do. Thanks, nothing to see here.

I bought Gothic about a year ago for $15. I ordered it online from EB or Gamestop (can't remember which), and I know Best Buy carried it too. Surely it couldn't have become so scarce within a year's time that it's selling for $75...

roguefrog
09-05-2005, 01:03 AM
Most Attempts at Humor: Anachronox

So are you infering they did not succeed?

"I will kill you...with DEATH!"

-Rictus

Kunikos
09-05-2005, 01:07 AM
Most of the trivial npc dialogue is all puns and cornball humor, so yes. Some succeeds and some doesn't. I did like the red light district, lots of LSL type stuff there.

roguefrog
09-06-2005, 12:56 AM
Well it was good enough to make me laugh. Too bad the game was never finished. That big twist at the end and then...

crap