Xbox 360: Nov 4th & $299

[Warning]

Apparently Wal-Mart is posting signs that the Xbox 360 will be launched Nov 4th for $299.

[Jason McMaster]

awesome. I cannot WAIT

[Kareem]

Is anyone going to hold out until they start selling them with HD-DVD drives? Or can you actually buy those as an accessory?

[Nick Walter]

The big question is which launch titles will hit that date also.

[Wholly Schmidt]

The big question is which launch titles will hit that date also.
Heh, probably the backward compatability code for Halo 2 and...uh...
But who am I kidding? I'll buy one on day one.

[Marcus]

The big question is which launch titles will hit that date also.
Heh, probably the backward compatability code for Halo 2 and...uh...
But who am I kidding? I'll buy one on day one.

I know I will.

[Thrrrpptt!]

Too expensive by $100 unless there's an absolutely killer app at launch. Then it'll only be too expensive by $50. :)

[Shadari]

Too expensive by $100 unless there's an absolutely killer app at launch. Then it'll only be too expensive by $50. :)
What if there are two killer apps at launch?

[Marcus]

Too expensive by $100 unless there's an absolutely killer app at launch. Then it'll only be too expensive by $50. :)
What if there are two killer apps at launch?

THEN ITS JUST RIGHT!

[Wholly Schmidt]

Too expensive by $100 unless there's an absolutely killer app at launch. Then it'll only be too expensive by $50. :)
I'm not saying you're wrong, but the way I justify it to myself is that a price drop probably isn't coming any time in the first couple years (unless Sony does something absolutely crazy). If I'm going to pay $300 for it anyway when there is a killer app, I might as well go ahead and have it on day one to rock out with the amazing visualizer, or something. This kind of thinking may also be why I don't have any money though. And my day-one Thompson drive on my Xbox should've probably taught me a lesson. It clearly didn't.

[Thrrrpptt!]

Too expensive by $100 unless there's an absolutely killer app at launch. Then it'll only be too expensive by $50. :)
What if there are two killer apps at launch?
Then it's too cheap by $50. This kind of math isn't linear. Duh!

I'm sure many of you will buy and thoroughly enjoy your shiny new toys, and I will no doubt be green with envy. But I've got a big stack of unplayed games for my PS2, GameCube, GBA, and PC that suggests I just don't have the time any more to make the time/money ratio worth $300 plus $50 per game.

[sluggo]

Apparently Wal-Mart is posting signs that the Xbox 360 will be launched Nov 4th for $299.
Can you elaborate on "apparently"? :)

Is this based off a story somewhere, or something you saw or heard?

[Marcus]

Well I heard that in a responce to Wal Mart target has signs for it for 199 and it will be launched on October 4th. Its a big fuck you to walmart so I hear.

[Warning]

Apparently Wal-Mart is posting signs that the Xbox 360 will be launched Nov 4th for $299.
Can you elaborate on "apparently"? :)

Is this based off a story somewhere, or something you saw or heard?
There's a 5 page thread on IGN's Xbox 360 boards talking about it.
http://boards.ign.com/Xbox_360_General_Board_/b8266/

I'd personally like to check them out but I'm not going to subscribe to IGN Insider just to access their crappy forums.

[Jason McMaster]

yeah, I want to read it too, but uh, no

[Marcus]

Yeah I dont care that much.

[andrew_fm]

I'm sure many of you will buy and thoroughly enjoy your shiny new toys, and I will no doubt be green with envy. But I've got a big stack of unplayed games for my PS2, GameCube, GBA, and PC that suggests I just don't have the time any more to make the time/money ratio worth $300 plus $50 per game.
You're obviously not one of those early adopters that will buy anything brand new no matter what, I mean that was the Phantom's business model right?

[Jason Cross]

Is anyone going to hold out until they start selling them with HD-DVD drives? Or can you actually buy those as an accessory?

Accessory - not a chance. It's not constructed for the drive to be removable (which would pose all sorts of size problems, warranty issues, etc.).

I'm sure it'll appear in a future Xbox 360, solely for movie playback. The games will probably all be required to be on DVD-9, which honestly I don't think will be that big a deal. Even in the next gen, nine gigs is plenty for even content-heavy games.

[Thrrrpptt!]

You're obviously not one of those early adopters that will buy anything brand new no matter what, I mean that was the Phantom's business model right?
No, admittedly I'm not.

[Kareem]

Is anyone going to hold out until they start selling them with HD-DVD drives? Or can you actually buy those as an accessory?

Accessory - not a chance. It's not constructed for the drive to be removable (which would pose all sorts of size problems, warranty issues, etc.).

I'm sure it'll appear in a future Xbox 360, solely for movie playback. The games will probably all be required to be on DVD-9, which honestly I don't think will be that big a deal. Even in the next gen, nine gigs is plenty for even content-heavy games.

That's true. I guess only time will tell if next-gen consoles will be really influential in deciding the winner of this format war. Though with the PS3 launching with blu-ray support from the start, whereas X360 early adopters will be out of the format loop, it seems Sony will have the upper edge blu-ray support, assuming the PS3 reaches the level of penetration of the PS2.

[Talisker]

Accessory - not a chance. It's not constructed for the drive to be removable (which would pose all sorts of size problems, warranty issues, etc.)
So they couldn't do it as an external USB2 drive or whatever?

[Jason McMaster]

the problem from Microsofts point of view for an external drive would be how easy it would be to mod, I would think.

[Talisker]

the problem from Microsofts point of view for an external drive would be how easy it would be to mod, I would think.
Yeah, that's true -- while it's technically doable, I don't expect we'll ever see one.

[Jason McMaster]

I would completely prefer a USB hard drive that I could attach later, but I'll buy one when it comes out. If the hdd ones come out later and I decide I need one, I'll get one of those too.

[Jason Cross]

Accessory - not a chance. It's not constructed for the drive to be removable (which would pose all sorts of size problems, warranty issues, etc.)
So they couldn't do it as an external USB2 drive or whatever?

It's not technically impossible, but it's impractical, costly, and a pain to support. Plus you have to deal with issues like "what happens when you put a game disc in both drives?" and stuff.

No, it'll just be a new Xbox 360 with HD-DVD, and all games will stay on DVD-9.

The good part is, the hard drive is detachable. So if, let's say 18 months from now, you want to pick up the HD-DVD version...you can pop off the hard drive from your old DVD-9 unit and pop it on the new HD-DVD one and keep all your saves and downloads and ripped music and stuff. That could be especially attractive if they sell the HD-DVD version in a version without a hard drive (as an option).

What I would love to see is MS have an exchange policy, where you can send off your first-gen Xbox 360 for the HD-DVD version, for like $50.

[Jason Cross]

I would completely prefer a USB hard drive that I could attach later, but I'll buy one when it comes out. If the hdd ones come out later and I decide I need one, I'll get one of those too.

We're not talking about HDD drives. We're talking about HD-DVD optical drives.

All Xbox 360 boxes, from the start, include a 20GB detachable serial ATA hard drive.

[Kadath]

I'm already preordered. I'm more excited by the PS3 than the 360, but I will get both on day 1. I dont intendo get a Nintendo Revolution. At least not based on what they have shown so far.

Sam

[Ben Sones]

I'm already preordered. I'm more excited by the PS3 than the 360, but I will get both on day 1. I dont intendo get a Nintendo Revolution. At least not based on what they have shown so far.


Which, to be fair, is essentially nothing. It's way too early to pass judgement on the Revolution one way or the other, I'd say.

[Qenan]

I need to see a game I really want before ordering.

[forgeforsaken]

Well Nintendo hasn't shown anything for Revolution. No game demos, no controller, pretty much nothing.

[Jason Cross]

I'm already preordered. I'm more excited by the PS3 than the 360, but I will get both on day 1. I dont intendo get a Nintendo Revolution. At least not based on what they have shown so far.

Sam

I'm finding it hard to get excited about the PS3. I need to see a lot more than their typical smoke and mirrors rendered movie and non-interactive game demo on "kinda sorta dev kits" stuff. Word has it that the actual games you can control are pretty unimpressive...nothing like the promised revoluion and rendered demos.

I'm doubtful about their architecture in general. I'm sure developers will come to grips with it in time, but everything so far that's actually a "real game" in the works seems to be using none of the SPEs. They're all like "oh we'll have all that awesome stuff you saw in the movies once we use the SPEs" but that's easier said than done. Running Unreal demos on dual 7800 GTX cards in SLI is a fine way to preview shader performance, but it gives you like twice the memory bandwdith as well...what can you get on screen with a 128-bit memory interface at 700MHz, I wonder?

And I want to hear a lot more about the online and service aspects of the system. Not just "all these amazing things will be possible with this technology," but an actual "this is what we WILL offer, and this is WHEN, and this is what it will look like and cost and how the games will use it."

[Kadath]

I'm right there with you. I think the multiprocessor approach is a huge risk. But..... bundle in Bluray and give me at a _minimum_ unreal warfare performance and I'm sold on day one.

Sam

[Jason McMaster]

Emotion Engine

[Jason McMaster]

I would completely prefer a USB hard drive that I could attach later, but I'll buy one when it comes out. If the hdd ones come out later and I decide I need one, I'll get one of those too.

We're not talking about HDD drives. We're talking about HD-DVD optical drives.

All Xbox 360 boxes, from the start, include a 20GB detachable serial ATA hard drive.

Wait, what? So they hd-dvd drive is what's at stake? Don't get me wrong, I'll still totally buy it day one, but that kinda sucks. Then again, I'm big enough of a fan to get over it I guess.

[Jason Cross]

I'm right there with you. I think the multiprocessor approach is a huge risk. But..... bundle in Bluray and give me at a _minimum_ unreal warfare performance and I'm sold on day one.

Sam

You mean Unreal Engine 3 performance, right? Unreal Warfare was the engine code name that basically powered Unreal Tournament 2004, Unreal 2, the Splinter Cell games (though they re-wrote the renderer), and so on.

I'm not sold on Blu-Ray either. I don't care if we get Blu-Ray or HD-DVD, but I want to see which one is gonna have tons of movies at my local Best Buy before I get all excited about it.

Wait, what? So they hd-dvd drive is what's at stake? Don't get me wrong, I'll still totally buy it day one, but that kinda sucks. Then again, I'm big enough of a fan to get over it I guess.

Yeah, what did you think it was by reading the rest of the thread? ;)

All we're discussing is this: The Xbox 360 will *NOT* ship with an HD-DVD drive initiallly, just a 12X DVD drive. The speculation and hints are that, at a future date, the 360 will be offered with an HD-DVD drive. (We don't know if that's as a seperate SKU, or replacing the original, or what)

If you ask me, not having a hard drive would have been a MUCH bigger deal!

A) There are almost no games now that fill up a single-layer DVD. The 9GB available in a dual-layer DVD is plenty for next-gen games, and if some crazy video-heavy RPG or something is gonna go over, you can do the multi-disc thing (ala some PS1 games).

B) Giving up the hard drive means that developers can't count on it being there, so you don't get games that you simply can't do without a hard drive. Like, I dunno, Oblivion (http://www.elderscrolls.com/games/oblivion_overview.htm). It also presents a real huge problem for downloads (how much memory card do you need to buy for those add-on levels and such?). And ripping music to use as custom soundtracks in games, a feature I use constantly on Xbox. And forget about any kind of digital distribution of games or demos. Word has it that you'll be able to download playable demos of AAA Xbox 360 games the day you bring it home, over Live, even with the free Silver account. Neat.

That's one reason I'm not so hyped about the PS3. Besides the fact that I think their split-memory setup isn't great, the Cell isn't as hot as they think, and the GPU doesn't have enough bandwidth for HDR and the like, it's got no hard drive! That impacts my console experiece WAY more than the optical drive format does.

[Don Quixote]

And ripping music to use as custom soundtracks in games, a feature I use constantly on Xbox.

What the hell games are you playing? And what happened to the 'streaming music over your LAN/iPod' thing? This was a feature I was very excited about with the Xbox, but that just kind of fizzled in the end as far as I'm concerned. It seems as though less than 1% of xbox games support it, which is why I'm excited that they've said that all X360 games willhave custom soundtracks, though I haven't seen them say definitively whether they will stream music druing gameplay. I've got more than 30GB on my PC- it'd be really nice to be able to listen to whatever album I want (while wandering around the huge world that will be Oblivion), for example, and not have to re-rip everyting onto the console's HD.

[olaf]

I am sure I will end up with a 360 and a PS3 at some point but right now...meh. What was the verdict on Oblivion, is it a launch day 360 title? Also, is it supposed to launch for the PC at the same time?

olaf

[Draco]

And ripping music to use as custom soundtracks in games, a feature I use constantly on Xbox.

What the hell games are you playing?

:? Well, I for one use custom soundtracks when playing GTA: Vice City, Outlaw Golf 2 and Road Kill.

The two "killer apps" I'm looking forward to for Xbox 360 are Gears of War and Oblivion, but I don't think either of those will be out at launch. Call of Duty looks good though; havn't see much of Perfect Dark Zero. Full Auto looks like a kick-ass version of Twisted Metal Black so that's definitely a must-buy.

[Kevin Grey]

B) Giving up the hard drive means that developers can't count on it being there, so you don't get games that you simply can't do without a hard drive. Like, I dunno, Oblivion.

Does that still apply? I'm guessing the the minimum size storage cards for PS3 are going to be more than large enough to hold Oblivion saves. Does Obilivion absolutely mandate hard-drive availability for streaming?

[Kareem]

B) Giving up the hard drive means that developers can't count on it being there, so you don't get games that you simply can't do without a hard drive. Like, I dunno, Oblivion.

Does that still apply? I'm guessing the the minimum size storage cards for PS3 are going to be more than large enough to hold Oblivion saves. Does Obilivion absolutely mandate hard-drive availability for streaming?

I think Jason was just giving a random example there because Oblivion hasn't been announced for the PS3.

[RickH]

B) Giving up the hard drive means that developers can't count on it being there, so you don't get games that you simply can't do without a hard drive. Like, I dunno, Oblivion.

Does that still apply? I'm guessing the the minimum size storage cards for PS3 are going to be more than large enough to hold Oblivion saves. Does Obilivion absolutely mandate hard-drive availability for streaming?

Isn't there a transfer rate problem as well? I could be wrong, but I don't think that flash memory cards deliver the same access rates as hard drives.

[Jason McMaster]

All we're discussing is this: The Xbox 360 will *NOT* ship with an HD-DVD drive initiallly, just a 12X DVD drive. The speculation and hints are that, at a future date, the 360 will be offered with an HD-DVD drive. (We don't know if that's as a seperate SKU, or replacing the original, or what)

If you ask me, not having a hard drive would have been a MUCH bigger deal!

A) There are almost no games now that fill up a single-layer DVD. The 9GB available in a dual-layer DVD is plenty for next-gen games, and if some crazy video-heavy RPG or something is gonna go over, you can do the multi-disc thing (ala some PS1 games).

B) Giving up the hard drive means that developers can't count on it being there, so you don't get games that you simply can't do without a hard drive. Like, I dunno, Oblivion (http://www.elderscrolls.com/games/oblivion_overview.htm). It also presents a real huge problem for downloads (how much memory card do you need to buy for those add-on levels and such?). And ripping music to use as custom soundtracks in games, a feature I use constantly on Xbox. And forget about any kind of digital distribution of games or demos. Word has it that you'll be able to download playable demos of AAA Xbox 360 games the day you bring it home, over Live, even with the free Silver account. Neat.

That's one reason I'm not so hyped about the PS3. Besides the fact that I think their split-memory setup isn't great, the Cell isn't as hot as they think, and the GPU doesn't have enough bandwidth for HDR and the like, it's got no hard drive! That impacts my console experiece WAY more than the optical drive format does.

Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, the Hard Drive is much more important to me, just kind of shocked because I thought it was shipping with a hd-dvd drive. Oh well, as long as the hdd is in I'm content.

[Jazar]

I'm finding it hard to get excited about the Xbox 360. I would love to have a next gen console sitting in my living room this november but I have yet to see any games that make me want to run out and buy the thing. The demos that we've seen so far look like Xbox games with higher resolution and more (cloned) enemies. Even the most hyped game so far, Gears of War, looks to me like a Doom 3 clone.

Say what you will about the demos of the PS3 and their basis in reality, but at least they captured the idea of what next gen should be like.

Regarding the Xbox 360 HDD, I read here that devs can't always expect a hard drive.

Do Xbox 360 games require the detachable HDD to be plugged in for them to work?

Todd Holmdahl: Xbox 360 games do not require the HDD or a Memory Unit, but Xbox Live requires one or the other to save the gamers’ account information.

http://interviews.teamxbox.com/xbox/1190/Xbox-360-Interview-Todd-Holmdahl/p2/

[Jose Liz]

That's the best price Microsoft can offer. Certainly a great move for them.

[Jason McMaster]

The price is fantastic. I really think this could be the best opening they can have. All it really needs is a couple of really killer titles (Full Auto, Oblivion) right off the bat and it'll be quite a coupe.

[Mattc0m]

Between Full Auto, Gears of War, Oblivion, Project Gotham Racing 3, Call of Duty, Ghost Recon 3, and others, I'm sure we're going to see some great titles near the launch. However, I'm wondering just how many titles I can get at the launch day.

[RickH]

Between Full Auto, Gears of War, Oblivion, Project Gotham Racing 3, Call of Duty, Ghost Recon 3, and others, I'm sure we're going to see some great titles near the launch. However, I'm wondering just how many titles I can get at the launch day.

I recommend two. My experience has been that when I buy 3 games at a time, even for a new console, one of them will be neglected. Just askmy lonely copy of Ridge Racer for the PSP.

[Kevin Grey]

Between Full Auto, Gears of War, Oblivion, Project Gotham Racing 3, Call of Duty, Ghost Recon 3, and others, I'm sure we're going to see some great titles near the launch. However, I'm wondering just how many titles I can get at the launch day.

Gears of War isn't launch. I don't think its due out until next summer at the earliest.

[Wholly Schmidt]

Between Full Auto, Gears of War, Oblivion, Project Gotham Racing 3, Call of Duty, Ghost Recon 3, and others, I'm sure we're going to see some great titles near the launch. However, I'm wondering just how many titles I can get at the launch day.

Gears of War isn't launch. I don't think its due out until next summer at the earliest.
Well, Matt did say near launch, but yeah, I don't think it'll actually be near launch by anyone's practical definition of near.

[Jason Cross]

And ripping music to use as custom soundtracks in games, a feature I use constantly on Xbox.

What the hell games are you playing? And what happened to the 'streaming music over your LAN/iPod' thing?

Streaming thing: still in there on xbox 360, and supported in all games just like "local" ripped music. But not everyone has a PC on the same network with all their MP3s on it, or a portable player, or whatever. It's nice to be able to rip straight to the Xbox if you want.

As for what I play with custom soundtracks: virtually any racing game (PGR 1 and 2, Rallisport). It's freakin' mandatory in Forza Motorsport (god that crappy music gets old fast). It was good to have in games like Amped and Links, and the Tony Hawk games. Used it all the time in Burnout as well. More games SHOULD have supported it (I'm looking at you, Eve of Destruction!).

I wish they let me use custom soundtracks in the multiplayer of Halo 2 and the like. I can understand them wanting me to hear the composed-for music in the single player game, and I'm happy to hear it.

[Jason Cross]

Between Full Auto, Gears of War, Oblivion, Project Gotham Racing 3, Call of Duty, Ghost Recon 3, and others, I'm sure we're going to see some great titles near the launch. However, I'm wondering just how many titles I can get at the launch day.

I put a preorder down on PGR3, Perfect Dark Zero, and Kameo. Oblivion I'll get on the PC (more modding!). Same with Call of Duty. But then, I have a really high-end PC.

Of the launch games, PGR3 is starting to really sound like the must-have title. The more I read about it, the more I'm excited about not the graphics, but the way they're really stepping up the gameplay in some significant ways.

Of course, the prospect of bots in PDZ makes me happy, too.

[Jason McMaster]

I will get Oblivion for PC as well, but I'm ultra curious about it on 360. Curious enough to buy it for the box. PGR3 and Full Auto look sweet.

[Wholly Schmidt]

Used it all the time in Burnout as well. More games SHOULD have supported it (I'm looking at you, Eve of Destruction!).
But...Eve of Destruction does support custom soundtracks.

[Justin Fletcher]

I wish they let me use custom soundtracks in the multiplayer of Halo 2 and the like. I can understand them wanting me to hear the composed-for music in the single player game, and I'm happy to hear it.
I've always thought a good compromise might be enabling custom soundtracks after playing through the game once. That way, the composer is able to give gamers the experience he intended, but gamers are able to mix it up in subsequent replays.

[Jason Cross]

I think Jason was just giving a random example there because Oblivion hasn't been announced for the PS3.

Right.

That, and because it's a title that the developers have said simply can't be done without a hard drive.

Final Fantasy XI also requires a hard drive, and it was designed from the start to play nice with the PS2. As it stands, it's one of, what, 2 or 3 PS2 games that can even recognize it? It makes the prospect of MMOs on a console without a hard drive...fuzzy at best.

Hard drive good. Hard drive better than hi-def movie playback.

But...Eve of Destruction does support custom soundtracks.

Whaaaa? I looked in the menus! How did I miss it?! GRR...

[Kadath]

Yeah I got the Unreal engine version wrong, sorry.

I'm not sold on Blu-Ray either. I don't care if we get Blu-Ray or HD-DVD, but I want to see which one is gonna have tons of movies at my local Best Buy before I get all excited about it.


http://www.thedigitalbits.com/mytwocentsa107.html#foxblu

Now their preference for the format is official. With their decision, Fox joins Sony, MGM and Buena Vista as the major Blu-ray Disc supporting studios. By comparison, the HD-DVD camp includes Warner Bros., Universal and Paramount

So take your choice of which studio you like most. Format wars suck. Also DRM sucks. DVD players that phone home suck. Shutting down 'compromized' players taking collateral damage with them is going to suck and will net a huge consumer backlash from whichever side does it first/worst.

So, I'm not convinced either side isnt going to rape consumers, but from what I have seen the advantage is in Blurays court and the ONLY plusses I see to HD-DVD is in the greedy studios side and NOT for the consumer...

[TheWombat]

Didn't they say Oblivion was pushed back into 2006? Or was that just a rumor?

[Mattc0m]

Didn't they say Oblivion was pushed back into 2006? Or was that just a rumor?

Rumor. They actually had a pretty fun news post about it on their website... I should try and find it.

EDIT: Couldn't find it, but the official word is "Holidays 2005".

[Jose Liz]

Didn't they say Oblivion was pushed back into 2006? Or was that just a rumor?

Rumor. They actually had a pretty fun news post about it on their website... I should try and find it.

EDIT: Couldn't find it, but the official word is "Holidays 2005".

Probably because NuclearWinter (http://www.quartertothree.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=451791) edited his post to say "edit: not a real bethsoft post."

[Qenan]

The price is fantastic. I really think this could be the best opening they can have. All it really needs is a couple of really killer titles (Full Auto, Oblivion) right off the bat and it'll be quite a coupe.

How is Oblivion a killer title? Won't it be out on PC? (In which case, I'll buy it there.)

[Drunkagain]

I'm hoping there's an Amped 3 for launch myself. Been playing the original again lately for some reason and I had forgotten how addictive it can be.

I'll be getting it day one for sure, but I'm waiting for the package deals to start showing up before I preorder.

[Moggraider]

Why wait for a package deal? It's not like you save money on those. I still shudder at the thought of all those PSP bundles.

[Jason Cross]

How is Oblivion a killer title? Won't it be out on PC? (In which case, I'll buy it there.)

Morrowind did about as much business on Xbox as it did on PC, so it's hard to think of it as just a "PC port." And it's questionable whether or not a really huge group of people will have powerful enough PCs to make it look as good as it should on the 360.

But the "killer" part of it is that you typically don't have a real RPG on your system in the first few months after launch. They take so long to make and test, you typically only have short/shallow/lame RPGs at launch if anything, and then a really deep RPG doesn't come along until the system is at least 8 months to a year old. Having Oblivion in the first couple months of the system is a pretty big win for RPG fans.

[Kitsune]

I dunno, you'll never convince me that a hard drive is needed for those types of games. There are several more MMORPGs in Japan that don't require the hard drive, for instance.

On top of that, you had games like the Lunatic Dawn series that tracked an insane amount of location, data, dynamic information such as climate, how many plants you'd picked, enemy populations (changed based on several factors) all sorts of movable objects and deformable terrain in-house and outside, random worlds, fixed worlds, relationships with races, churchs, wives, friends and children of the main hero and so on and so forth. It had pretty fast loading times (though the bugs were a bitch, just like Elder Scrolls series). III and Odyssey on the PlayStation (and Tempest on the PlayStation 2) accomplished all this easily with a memory card and whatever the developers used. There were no excessive load times and I believe save files took up three blocks, which is a bit more than the average 1 or 2 back then, but not by much. In any case, the point is the series very much like Elder Scrolls in its freedom and huge amount of saved variables and such. Its a particularly good series to state this too, because Lunatic Dawn II if I remember correctly was trumpetting innovations based on the PC's newly ability to have a hard drive when it released, but the console translations didn't suffer from any scaling back whatsoever. I think a part of it is just comfortability, if the hard drive's there, why not, it makes an easy solution? But I don't think its absolutely necessary, as it seems as if anyone who wants the things it brings can do so other ways.

There are of course, other examples (like Chaos Seed waaaay back on the SFC).

I'm not saying hard drives useful for custom soundtracks and whatever, or they don't make it easier for developers used to them to realize their plans, just that I very much doubt its impossible to accomplish the same things with a little ingenuity.

If its the huge, detailed 3D environments you're talking about (well, Tempest had that too) wait till you see Dragon Quest VIII and Grandia III. I mean those games are like, Jeeeeesus KER-RHYST!

I'm looking forward to the Xbox 360 too, especially since it looks like its going to have a much better presence in Japan (have you Enchant Arm, Lost Odyssey and Tengai Makyou ZIRIA?) though most of my purchasing decision lies not on any online capabilities, but whether it can play the existing Xbox catalog with no quibbles, since I missed out on the first one. I love obscure titles, so I'm not going to be impressed if its just the big guys, so I hope they have something comprehensive in store.

BTW, it certainly looks a lot better aesthetically than the first Xbox and their marketing is a lot nicer and more humble over here now. No more of that, "Hey look, we're American so WE'RE SUPERIOR, of course you're going to buy this, we're rescuing you from Sony and yourselves" attitude any more that left a lot of Japanese understandably cold.

I'm still not going to buy it at launch though, even I want to, just because like Namco vs. Nintendo, I keep grudges and I'm never going to forgive Microsoft for nicknaming the original Xbox Project Midway. ;)

-Kitsune

[Mattc0m]

How is Oblivion a killer title? Won't it be out on PC? (In which case, I'll buy it there.)

Morrowind did about as much business on Xbox as it did on PC, so it's hard to think of it as just a "PC port." And it's questionable whether or not a really huge group of people will have powerful enough PCs to make it look as good as it should on the 360.

But the "killer" part of it is that you typically don't have a real RPG on your system in the first few months after launch. They take so long to make and test, you typically only have short/shallow/lame RPGs at launch if anything, and then a really deep RPG doesn't come along until the system is at least 8 months to a year old. Having Oblivion in the first couple months of the system is a pretty big win for RPG fans.

That, and it's in high defination.

To me, the big draw for Morrowind Xbox was the ability to sit down and enjoy it on a far more comfy couch. Usually when I'm on my PC I'm not nearly as relaxed and comfortable, and the games aren't quite as enjoyable (if only by a bit). The PC's strength will lie in it's community, and it's new content that it adds. That can add tons of replay value.

But when it comes down to it (at least for me), Morrowind did not need anymore replay value. It was stuffed, and I enjoy my time on the Xbox over the PC, even though it lacked sharper graphics (they still looked damn nice), and had some crazy load times.

If the Xbox 360 can create a more seemless enviroment, look great in widescreen HD, and have plenty of replay value, I'm sold. I was excited about the 360 version long before I posted this, so this might just be a spout of fanboyism. But I loved what Morrowind did, and I did enjoy it more on the Xbox. There's just something about kicking back and playing in the comfort of your own living room, on a big soft sofa.

[Warning]

By the time my wife goes to bed and I get the couch/TV combination it's usually 11 pm or so. That's why I tend to play PC and GBA games unless it's a game she really likes to watch or play with me.

For me the key with the Xbox 360 will be if I can connect it to the DVI connector on my Dell 1905FP 19" LCD (1280x1024 resolution) and have it look well. If so, then I can have my PC and Xbox 360 running into the same monitor and switch back and forth between the two.

And then I could also play the bunch of old Xbox games I (like Kitsune) missed out on.

[Jason McMaster]

The price is fantastic. I really think this could be the best opening they can have. All it really needs is a couple of really killer titles (Full Auto, Oblivion) right off the bat and it'll be quite a coupe.

How is Oblivion a killer title? Won't it be out on PC? (In which case, I'll buy it there.)

Most everyone has hit the nail on the head, but to re-iterate: it'll mostly look great out of the box on the 360 and I can play it on my hd tv.

[LionelThompson]

Am I the only one who is somewhat on the fence with the XBox while they figure out backwards compatibility? I still have several neglected XBox games that I've been meaning to play (bought them dirt cheap, but haven't had time) and my entertainment center is already full from the GameCube, PS2, XBox, and Dreamcast.

I mean, I GUESS I could try to move the photos of my wife's family from that top shelf, but then we are delving into justifiable homicide territory on her part :shock:

[Jason Becker]

Could care less about backewards compatibility. The whole thing IMO is massvily overblown by a small group of hardcore gamers on message boards. Most people I've ever talked to maybe mentioned playing a couple of games on their PS2's early on but thats it. Its not like backwards compatitbility has been around since the the start either. To me like its a gimmick feature that is more to have as bullet point feature for a system than anything of substance.

[Jason McMaster]

Yeah, I never cared for backwards comp at all. I played all the games I wanted to play on my regular xbox.

[Mattc0m]

I don't think it's an overblown issue. In fact, I think that's one of the reasons the PS2 did so well. Not that many people USED backwards compatability, but the fact it was there didn't mean "throwing away" all their PS1 games. I was planning on getting a PS2 solely for that reason, until I played a little game I liked to call Halo.

[Kevin Grey]

Backwards compatability has become a huge deal to me ever since my Thompson drive started acting up.

[ramsies]

I'll hold out for the PS3

[Jason McMaster]

I'll hold out for the PS3

GOOD, MORE XBOX 360 FOR US THEN

[Dave Long]

Backwards compatability has become a huge deal to me ever since my Thompson drive started acting up.

I can't tell you how many times I've heard, "I lost all my saves when I bought my second Xbox because the first one died." from people in game stores, at Best Buy, etc. Every time I go into one of these places some dude is talking about it. Those Thompson drives are just awful pieces of shit.

--Dave

[Qenan]

Having just bought a "new" XBox that somehow had a Thomson drive that promptly conked out, I'd have to agree.

Maybe if I had HDTV, I'd be more enthused about Oblivion on XBox, but I don't, and that alone will induce me to buy the PC version.

[Jason Cross]

For me the key with the Xbox 360 will be if I can connect it to the DVI connector on my Dell 1905FP 19" LCD (1280x1024 resolution) and have it look well. If so, then I can have my PC and Xbox 360 running into the same monitor and switch back and forth between the two.


DVI, no. You can hook it up to the VGA input on your 1905, though. And it should look, well, just as good as a PC running at 1280x720.

[Warning]

For me the key with the Xbox 360 will be if I can connect it to the DVI connector on my Dell 1905FP 19" LCD (1280x1024 resolution) and have it look well. If so, then I can have my PC and Xbox 360 running into the same monitor and switch back and forth between the two.


DVI, no. You can hook it up to the VGA input on your 1905, though. And it should look, well, just as good as a PC running at 1280x720.
That works. I wonder how it will handle the resolution as the LCD is fixed with 1024 height. Will it stretch or make black bars?

[curst]

Backwards compatability has become a huge deal to me ever since my Thompson drive started acting up.

I can't tell you how many times I've heard, "I lost all my saves when I bought my second Xbox because the first one died." from people in game stores, at Best Buy, etc. Every time I go into one of these places some dude is talking about it. Those Thompson drives are just awful pieces of shit.

I'm holding off on the next-gen consoles for a while. I learned my lesson from the initial versions of the XBox and PS2. The newer models of both had better load times, less fan/CPU noise, and much greater durability.

Maybe Microsoft and Sony will do a better job with the launches this time around, but do I really have any reason to think that'll be the case?

[bago]

Well, this is 2nd gen for Microsoft, so they should have the fab details down pat this time. I know I've got my vga slot on my projector free for it come release day.

[Jason Becker]

I don't think it's an overblown issue. In fact, I think that's one of the reasons the PS2 did so well. Not that many people USED backwards compatability, but the fact it was there didn't mean "throwing away" all their PS1 games. I was planning on getting a PS2 solely for that reason, until I played a little game I liked to call Halo.

The ability to play DVD's was a much bigger selling point early on than backwards compatibility.

[RickH]

I don't think it's an overblown issue. In fact, I think that's one of the reasons the PS2 did so well. Not that many people USED backwards compatability, but the fact it was there didn't mean "throwing away" all their PS1 games. I was planning on getting a PS2 solely for that reason, until I played a little game I liked to call Halo.

The ability to play DVD's was a much bigger selling point early on than backwards compatibility.

I wonder if Sony learned a bit too much about that feature, now they seem to think that if they Xmas-tree everything they can think of into the PS3, people will take out a second mortgage for the privilege of owning it. $300 is my limit, woe be to the console manufacturer who thinks otherwise. And no, I don't care about inflation-adjusted prices from 2000.

[Tom McNamara]

As far as I know, this price point rumor was generated from a message board posting. The poster did not specify which store it was, provide evidence of any kind, or return to the thread. I'd link to it, but no one admits to reading IGN, so what's the point.

[Justin Fletcher]

I read IGN. I'm even *gasp* an Insider.

Of course, that's because they keep automatically renewing me, and I keep forgetting to cancel.

[Marcus]

I paid 250 for a fuckin portable I dont see any issue dropping 350-400 on a ps3.... now mind you I wont like it but I'll do it.

[Wholly Schmidt]

Hey Justin, just a reminder. Go cancel your insider subscription!

[Justin Fletcher]

[ties string around finger]

[Marcus]

Of course, that's because they keep automatically renewing me, and I keep forgetting to cancel.
Thats how fileplanet got me for almost a year.

[Jason Cross]

DVI, no. You can hook it up to the VGA input on your 1905, though. And it should look, well, just as good as a PC running at 1280x720.
That works. I wonder how it will handle the resolution as the LCD is fixed with 1024 height. Will it stretch or make black bars?[/quote]

That's entirely up to your LCD's settings. What does it do when you set your PC res to something other than 1280x1024?

You should have a setting to pick between "stretch" and "display the native input res." You might even have an "aspect" setting that will stretch while maintaining the aspect ratio, until it hits the edges either horizontally or vertially, and then displays black bars for the rest.

What you want for the 360 is to go with "native input" setting. You'll want that 1280 width with black bars, otherwise you'll have a really stretched image.

[Warning]

Wow I set it up and I've got the black bars and 1280x720. Looks like it'll work great!

Now I'm going to pretend I have that Dell widescreen monitor.