Is Sly Stalone done as an actor? [Archive]

AIM

01-15-2003, 04:26 PM

Me and my buddy were debating this last night. Is Sly Stalone's acting career over? It might be. His movies aren't even coming close to what he once did.

His latest movie Driven didn't even gross 20 mil. Hell.. he's lucky if it did 10 mil. The movie cost 70-75 mil to make.

Detox which had been made a couple of years ago isn't even going to the theatres. Straight to video. The company that he signed on to do two films (I believe it's Miramax) got the hell out of the deal by paying Sly 7 mil just so they didn't have to shoot another film with the guy. Since Driven did so poorly, they didn't want to take a chance on his second film.

He can't even get anyone to pay for Rambo 4, which was rumored to be in development. I've read that one company offered to put up 15 million for the film, but thats it. It's going to cost a hell of a lot more then 15 mil to make another Rambo film.

Maybe we will see Sly in some supporting roles, but that might be it.

Anonymous

01-15-2003, 04:28 PM

I was unaware that Stallone was ever an actor. Color me puzzled!

Bub, Andrew

01-15-2003, 04:51 PM

Rocky 1... Copland...
ok, now I'm tapped out.

Anonymous

01-15-2003, 05:04 PM

I'm sort of enjoying the visual image of you and your buddy sitting around over a couple of beers arguing about whether or not Sly Stallone is done as an actor. It's like a beer commercial, except that you aren't on television. Think about it.

Supertanker

01-15-2003, 06:09 PM

Friends + beer + inconsequential discussions = College. Similarly, what sort of deep topics do you think one supposed to discuss when knocking back a couple with your friends?

Anonymous

01-15-2003, 06:24 PM

I didn't go to college, so I don't know much about all that particular form of male bonding, but here around the trailer park we usually talk about Kierkegaardian existentialism, the death of God, the heroism of bullfighters and like-minded subjects over a tall, cold one.

Supertanker

01-15-2003, 06:42 PM

I surrender! :D

Desslock

01-15-2003, 06:54 PM

AIM

01-15-2003, 07:13 PM

His latest movie Driven didn't even gross 20 mil. Hell.. he's lucky if it did 10 mil. The movie cost 70-75 mil to make.

It made $32 million in the U.S.

It was a bomb, and he has essentially no box office clout in the U.S., but his films still do well overseas. Rambo III, for instance, made a pathetic fraction of its predecessor in the U.S. ($50 million), but $200 million with overseas proceeds.

Opps. my fault!

I could swear that I read that Driven made somewhere around 12-15 mil.

Are you sure that he's still a big draw overseas? Rambo 3 was many years ago, and that was when he was much popular.

Mark Asher

01-15-2003, 08:24 PM

I heard he signed to do a new Rocky movie. He's running a center for troubled kids or a teen center or something and is lured out of retirement, ala George Foreman, I suppose.

Maybe a new Rocky movie can do some box office.

voltaic

01-15-2003, 09:13 PM

He could always go back to pr0n.

TimElhajj

01-15-2003, 11:01 PM

Maybe a new Rocky movie can do some box office.

You're kidding? This would be like Rocky 6 or 7, right? I'm serious.

Bub, Andrew

01-15-2003, 11:11 PM

Rocky VI.
But it's been about 15 years since the last one (too lazy to look at IMDB). The timing could be right, nostalgia, Rocky isn't over-exposed, apparently that Lipton Ice Tea ad was a big hit... oh, and Mark's right about Foreman. It isn't implausible for a mid-40's former Heavyweight Champion to make a comeback for the title. I'm not saying it will be good but I have a soft spot in my heart for Rocky II and III and I still consider the original Rocky to be one of my all-time favorites.

Yo there Adrian.

Now Rambo IV, that sounds like a bad idea. I think he got the idea because Rambo III features him kicking Soviet ass in Afghanistan. Maybe Stallone's brain thought "Rambo returns there to kick Taliban ass for not sayin' thank you!"

TimElhajj

01-15-2003, 11:16 PM

Jakub

01-15-2003, 11:19 PM

I'm one of the few people who genuinely enjoyed Driven. Sure it had sappy, stupid moments, but there was something unpretentious about it. Dunno, can't name it =]

Mark Asher

01-15-2003, 11:23 PM

I love the original. The second was a good sequel. It started to get a little thin for me with three, so of course I thought the rest were just horrendous.

I agree that the timing might be right, but how often can you go back to the well before it's just a little ridiculous?

Rocky 1 was great. 2 was dumb. 3 was lots of fun with Rocky fighting Hulk Hogan and then Mister T twice. 4 was mostly dumb but the fight with Ivan Drago was good. 5 was a disaster.

My boys all love the Rocky movies and according to my oldest, most of the high school boys have seen the movies and know them well enough to make references to them, so a new Rocky movie could do ok.

I'm not endorsing the concept, mind you, because I think a new Rocky movie does sound crazy. It might be Stallone's best chance to resurrect his career, however.

chet

01-16-2003, 07:09 AM

Dave Long

01-16-2003, 07:53 AM

The entire city of Philadelphia would come out in full force if they did another Rocky and set it back in Philly, which is really what they should do if they want to make another one.

The first is a landmark in cinema because it was the first uplifting sports movie. It's cliche now, but back then it was absolutely the cat's meow. It holds up well too. They've still got a block marked at Pat's Steaks in Philly that notes "The great Sylvester Stallone stood here during the making of Rocky!" Mmmmm....Pat's...

It was Best Picture that year IIRC. That always floors people. But it's not Stallone's fault every sports movie since has ripped his film off.

--Dave

Bub, Andrew

01-16-2003, 09:27 AM

I'm not certain that Dave's right about it being the first uplifting sports movie, but it did set the gold standard for a lot of dreck that's followed. Rocky was brilliant, to me, because.

1) Adrian was not beautiful, or I should say that she was, but in a realistic and understated way. She wasn't a hottie, but the love was there and easy to relate to. The ice skating scene (which I've heard happened sort of accidentally) was brilliant.

2) Burgess Meredith. Fantastic.
"You're a bum and you'll always be a bum!"

3) SPOILER?
Rocky doesn't win. He places and shows. Somehow that feels more realistic and world's more satisfying than, I dunno, Remember the Titans and The Karate Kid.

4) The script. Which was written by Sly, or more accurately... he wrote a script and Hollywood fixed it up into something special.

5) Hell of a theme song.

It really was Stallone's baby though. His concept, his initial script, his insistance at playing the lead. EW had a story on it about 6 months ago. Great Hollywood story.

Troy S Goodfellow

01-16-2003, 09:45 AM

I want to second what Bub says. And I'd like to add some things to his great list.

6) Apollo Creed wasn't a heartless and cold villain. He was a showman and a pro and clearly condescending towards the club fighter, but he was no stereotypical "bad guy who is the champ because he is bad."

7) The boxing was only part of the story. Though a lot of bad sports movies have used the "become a good man to become a good athlete" trope, in Rocky, Rocky is a good man already. He needs to improve a bit, and get his priorities straight, but he's not some doofus who is redeemed by the ring.

Now we rate co-Oscar nominee "Taxi Driver" (and maybe "Network") as a better film than "Rocky", though clearly at the time this wasn't clear to everyone. This isn't a colossal blunder on the level of "Ordinary People". "Rocky" did win the LA Film Critics prize for best picture (a tie with "Network") and the Golden Globe for Drama - of course we know what that is worth. 1976 was a good year for movies and "Rocky" should get its due despite it's anomalous status in Stallone's career.

Troy

Tyjenks

01-16-2003, 09:48 AM

oh, and Mark's right about Foreman. It isn't implausible for a mid-40's former Heavyweight Champion to make a comeback for the title.

I thought Stallone had turned 50 already. I am sure he is still in decent shape, but it would be pretty hard to swallow (even for another crazy Rocky comeback premise) a 50 year old boxer. A grizzled 50 year old Rambo, maybe.

Anonymous

01-16-2003, 10:38 AM

The first is a landmark in cinema because it was the first uplifting sports movie.

As opposed to "It Happens Every Spring", "Somebody Up There Likes Me", "The Jackie Robinson Story", "Take Me Out to the Ballgame", that ridiculous B&W Babe Ruth movie and in a really weird way even "Horsefeathers"?

Bub, Andrew

01-16-2003, 10:40 AM

I thought Stallone had turned 50 already. I am sure he is still in decent shape, but it would be pretty hard to swallow (even for another crazy Rocky comeback premise) a 50 year old boxer. A grizzled 50 year old Rambo, maybe.

Acting! I meant Rocky would be mid-40's. Stallone's probably in good enough shape to sell that age, I think.

Bub, Andrew

01-16-2003, 10:42 AM

7) The boxing was only part of the story. Though a lot of bad sports movies have used the "become a good man to become a good athlete" trope, in Rocky, Rocky is a good man already. He needs to improve a bit, and get his priorities straight, but he's not some doofus who is redeemed by the ring.

Yeah, I'd argue Adrian is his redemption, which is why after going to distance at the end of the film, she's all he thinks and cares about. His cries of "Adrian" while in his "boxing glory moment" mark one of the best moments seen on film.

So far as the rest of your post, I still think Taxi Driver is the better film.

Qwijybo

01-16-2003, 10:58 AM

Troy S Goodfellow

01-16-2003, 11:08 AM

So far as the rest of your post, I still think Taxi Driver is the better film.

You won't get any argument from me on that. I think Network is better, too. But sometimes I think that I'm just seeing Rocky's quality through the "Might Ducks" lens.

Troy

voltaic

01-16-2003, 11:38 AM

I think "The Program" is a another great non-Rocky non-cheese sports movie.

Tyjenks

01-16-2003, 12:39 PM

I think "The Program" is a another great non-Rocky non-cheese sports movie.

It was good until the movie studio caved and cut out the scene where they laid down in the middle of a roadway on the centerline for the 'rush'. :cry: Kids were gettting the wrong idea and thought it would be fun to imitate the movie. :cry: Bastard studio exec. weasels.

That was a pretty good flick though. I think I saw it twice in one weekend when it was first released before it was bastardized. Grrrr!

Guestacy

01-16-2003, 07:01 PM

I think "The Program" is a another great non-Rocky non-cheese sports movie.
Two words: Bull Durham.

Raging Bull.

Even Tin Cup.

Jakub

01-16-2003, 07:08 PM

AAHHHHHHHHHHH Jakub, you are just kidding about Driven right? unpretentious? You have made me go back to dictionary.com jus to see if they have redefined the word.

Somewhere on the old forums I posted about this movie. I think it may be the single worst movie I have ever seen. And every time Stallone woodenly says - "Kid", I cry.

The entire story of Driven is based on the idea that if a rookie driver does not win the entire circuit championship - his career is over, he is a failure. The entire movie is filmed like a really bad beer commercial, and sadly it is even lacking the beer.

Chet

:(

You got me. I'm trolling.

I did like a few things about it though. Like how the girl went back to the original guy, how he wasn't a complete villain... but that was the story in Days of Thunder too (except the girl). The whole time I was at the theater, I kept expecting Tom Cruise to pop out.

Jakub

01-16-2003, 07:09 PM

I think "The Program" is a another great non-Rocky non-cheese sports movie.
Two words: Bull Durham.

Raging Bull.

Even Tin Cup.

I'd recommend Slapshot. Same gritty style as Rocky.

Mark Asher

01-16-2003, 09:02 PM

I think "The Program" is a another great non-Rocky non-cheese sports movie.
Two words: Bull Durham.

Raging Bull.

Even Tin Cup.

The Longest Yard. Hoosiers. Take Me Out to the Ballgame.

Those are three fun sports movies, though the last one doesn't focus on the sports too much.

And Brian's Song -- how could that not be mentioned? Back when I was a kid, everyone watched it. It made quite the impression.

Tyjenks

01-16-2003, 09:04 PM

Matthew Modine at his finest:

Vision Quest

Jack

01-17-2003, 06:12 AM

Anyone remember "The Cutting Edge"? They don't make 'em like that anymore. Now that's a great sports flick. :roll:

Never has ice been so hot!

Qwijybo

01-17-2003, 06:16 AM

The Cutting Edge ranks right up there with Rudy. Take that how you will.

Jack

01-17-2003, 06:24 AM

Note the rolling eyes. :)

My wife enjoys that movie and I enjoy teasing her about it -- but then she thinks Elves and magic are silly. Nonsense!

Tyjenks

01-17-2003, 07:40 AM

Note the rolling eyes. :)

My wife enjoys that movie and I enjoy teasing her about it -- but then she thinks Elves and magic are silly. Nonsense!

Ditto. She calls me a nerd and then watches sappy garbage like that. Not once, but every time it is on TV. Steel Magnolias, When Harry Met Sally, Sleepless in Seattle....She has the damn DVDs, but cannot help but switch to those movies if they appear on the menu. The worst is those Lifetime movies. The Face on the Milkcarton.......Please stop the madness.

Jack

01-17-2003, 07:47 AM

You're preachin' to the choir, Ty.

I drew the line at "You've Got Mail." I refused to watch even the opening credits and left the room for a few hours of Diablo. Hell spawn are better company.

I'm sure when I get to Hell, I'll be subject to a romantic comedy film festival for all eternity. I'll be begging for Corpse Spitters to regurgitate putrid flesh at me.

Qwijybo

01-17-2003, 07:54 AM

Note the rolling eyes. :)

My wife enjoys that movie and I enjoy teasing her about it -- but then she thinks Elves and magic are silly. Nonsense!

I saw the rolling eyes. I would hope that even without the eyes, one would know you were kidding. :lol:

Count me in on the spousal hypocrisy choir. Oh well, something for everybody, I suppose.

Anonymous

01-17-2003, 09:01 AM

The Longest Yard. Hoosiers. Take Me Out to the Ballgame.
I've never seen the last one.

I liked Blue Chips.

And Brian's Song -- how could that not be mentioned? Back when I was a kid, everyone watched it. It made quite the impression.
Well, it was cheesy, and we're talking about non-cheesy sports movies. And the Band Played On was also cheesy.

Ben Sones

01-17-2003, 11:08 AM

Judge Dredd.

Need I say more?

Tyjenks

01-17-2003, 12:23 PM

Don't you all think Schwarzenegger has pretty much fallen into this same black hole? 6th Day was average at best, End of Days sucked ass, and I have not seen Collateral Damage, but I do not think it did well either. As with Stallone, I am sure his overseas box office draw is still fairly large and between that and rentals he might still be a marketable star. His "acting" is even worse than Sly's.

ANother two who used to bring folks in and have fallen by the wayside, but not on as grand a scale as the 2 above:

Stephen Segal
Jean Claude Van Damme

In high school, we had an ongoing debate as to who would kick who's ass. Dunno, but I still liked the Segal flicks better. More of the bad-ass factor, IMO. Van DAmmes are pretty much straight to video now and as long as Segal teams with an angry rapper his will show in theaters. They are all equally as bad now, however.

Qwijybo

01-17-2003, 12:46 PM

What really surprises me is how well Vin Diesel (I don't know or care if it's on his birth certificate, but that is the fakest-sounding stage name ever) is succeeding at doing exactly the same types of movies. Well, he doesn't have a Segal arm-breaking fetish, a Van Damme roundhouse, a Stallone sneer or an Arnie accent, but (at least from the previews) his movies are exactly the same!

Without him, I would have thought that the genre itself was dying, but maybe it's just that the old-skoolers are just that - too old to be plausible in these types of movies. Even so, I haven't seen any other breakout action stars in the past few years.

Tyjenks

01-17-2003, 12:49 PM

Vin Diesel is the same, but all of his stunts are XXX-Treme, have a better soundtrack, and crazier camera angles.

Chris Nahr

01-17-2003, 01:18 PM

Judge Dredd.

Need I say more?

Great film! Stallone was perfect for the role.

Don't you all think Schwarzenegger has pretty much fallen into this same black hole?

Well, sure... these guys do turn 50 eventually, no matter how well they keep in shape, and you can't play an action star forever. In the closeups in the T3 trailer, you really see Schwarzenegger's age. I hope they'll eventually nail down that contract for Conan 3, he could very well play an ageing Conan who has become king.

Tyjenks

01-17-2003, 01:24 PM

Don't you all think Schwarzenegger has pretty much fallen into this same black hole?

Well, sure... these guys do turn 50 eventually, no matter how well they keep in shape, and you can't play an action star forever. In the closeups in the T3 trailer, you really see Schwarzenegger's age. I hope they'll eventually nail down that contract for Conan 3, he could very well play an ageing Conan who has become king.

I think the action genre in general has become pretty stale as Qwjybo pointed out. Connery and Ford still do pretty well in action/thrillers at their respective ages. I think they (Stallone/Scwarzenegger) could both still do well if the right script came along. The scripts offered to Arnie and Sly must have become sparse or they are just picking some horribly written, lame projects to star in.

Jakub

01-17-2003, 01:28 PM

Arnie could make a great villain.

I mean, he still has presence, just look at this: http://www.badwojo.com/funnies/stfu.jpg

chet

01-17-2003, 01:40 PM

I think now that Steven Seagal has gone loopy (http://www.eonline.com/News/Items/0,1,11082,00.html), he might be near the end. Thank god.

Chet

Desslock

01-17-2003, 03:38 PM

Don't you all think Schwarzenegger has pretty much fallen into this same black hole? 6th Day was average at best, End of Days sucked ass, and I have not seen Collateral Damage, but I do not think it did well either.

Yes, and Collateral Damage was far, far worse than the others.

I'd be great if these guys (Arnie, Stallone, Dolph, Seagal, Van Damme) swallowed some pride and appeared in some Dirty Dozen action flick all together, preferably with Tarantino directing, heh.

Tyjenks

01-17-2003, 08:49 PM

Only all of them put together are not half as good as the original Dirty Dozen. Of course that is 5 actors versus 12, but you get my meaning. Will we ever see good ensemble cast movies like that again? Telly Savalas alone is better than any one of our multi-millionaire cast of brutes.

Guestacy

01-18-2003, 07:47 AM

I think now that Steven Seagal has gone loopy (http://www.eonline.com/News/Items/0,1,11082,00.html), he might be near the end. Thank god.
But you have to admit, Half Past Dead is a great title for an action movie. Why it's a PG-13 action movie is something of a mystery.

Everyone should watch a Steven Seagal movie, anything made since Under Siege. Notice how every shot frames his face in such a way so you can't see how fat he is. Notice how every action shot is sped up. Notice how he never actually completes any of his amazing judo-karate-tae kwon-butt kicking moves anymore. It's fun stuff. More fun than any movie he's ever done, except for maybe Under Siege.

Tyjenks

01-20-2003, 12:42 PM

I think now that Steven Seagal has gone loopy (http://www.eonline.com/News/Items/0,1,11082,00.html), he might be near the end. Thank god.

Chet

The Seagal plot thickens. (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030119/ap_on_re_us/seagal_mob_trial_2)