Sigh, it's an OS upgrade conspiracy.

[Supertanker]

So with a combination of Christmas presents and my own money, I finally get the parts together to upgrade my PC. Everything is running fine, but it just doesn't seem as fast as I expected, so I decide to benchmark it.

The benchmark scores come out about 40% lower than people running similar rigs (for example, 11000+ 3DMarks to my 7200). Eventually I figure out that the AGP driver never loaded, so I download the necessary stuff and try to install (it is an Asus P4PE board, using an Intel 845PE chipset). Sorry, Intel has dropped AGP driver support for the original release of Win98 - only 98SE and above are supported, and the driver won't install.

I've already exhausted my upgrade budget, so now I have to start saving my pennies for Microsoft's piece of the action. I thought about a cheap copy of the SE upgrade from Ebay, but even those are going for $75 or more. OK, fine, they got me, I'll migrate to XP. Bastards.

[Ben Sones]

You won't regret it. I mean, I hate the upgrade cycle too, but at least XP is worth the hassle. It's a hell of a lot better than the mess that is Windows 98 (which is what I upgraded from). More stable, nicer interface, better OS all around.

[dannimal]

Not only that, but it was the easiest upgrade (of Windows) I'd ever done. I direct upgraded 3 machines (2 Win98 and 1 WinME, egad!) without a single problem. I'm not a big MS fan, but XP is one of the lesser evils to ooze out of Redmond.

[wumpus]

I find it difficult to believe that avid gamers would have any difficulty getting a warez copy of the corporate edition of XP. Sure, you have to install with the pirate key, which means no SP1 or windows update, but all you need to do at that point is run the keygen.. it really does work.

I would never advocate copying games, but MS has its hand in so many different pies that I don't see anything particularly wrong with copying XP. With product activation, the technical bar has already been raised far enough that joe six-pack won't be able to copy it; it's hardly a floodgate of piracy.

[TomChick]

Okay, here's a question. I have six computers here for Shoot Club, all running Win98 (I don't even think it's the SE). Would I have to buy six separate fucking copies of Windows XP to upgrade? Say it isn't so...

-Tom

[Bullhajj]

Okay, here's a question. I have six computers here for Shoot Club, all running Win98 (I don't even think it's the SE). Would I have to buy six separate fucking copies of Windows XP to upgrade? Say it isn't so...

You're missing the point. The license agreement hasn't changed that substantially, just the method of enforcement. In other words, you were supposed to have already purchased 6 copies of Win98 for Shoot Club's computers. If you're going to steal those five licences, you may as well just use wumpus suggestion to get 6 XP licenses. :!:

Or you could just ask someone in Redmond to go to the company store and buy it for you--it's offered at an incredibly discount. I spent $25 on full version of Win98. :idea:

[Rywill]

But to state explicitly what is implicit in Tim's reply: yes, you would have to buy six copies of XP, unless you go with warez versions like Wumpus said.

[Anonymous]

That's one thing that Apple does very well... A single license for OS X Jaguar will cost you $130 (much bitching has been done about this from the faithful already, who feel they've been charged for beta testing OS X from the Beta to OS X 10.0 to 10.1). But a 5-user license for OS X costs only $199, so if you have multiple Macs in your home, you're set.

Of course, you can't game on OS X. But I like it on my PowerBook for just taking notes down at the library and such.

MS needs to have done something like this, though. Tons of people have multiple PC homes. God knows they would have helped XP adoption a bunch if they'd just been a bit more consumer-friendly in that.

[Bullhajj]

The benchmark scores come out about 40% lower than people running similar rigs (for example, 11000+ 3DMarks to my 7200).

Wow, where do you get the stats for like computers? Also, don't you have to buy a license for 3Dmarks? I was looking for some benchmark software not too long ago but it was all pay for software, but I didn't want to spend for a license.

I thought about a cheap copy of the SE upgrade from Ebay, but even those are going for $75 or more.

Wow, no kidding? I am going to have to clean out my closet. I know I have an ME and an SE disk lying around somewhere. Half price books only gives you a pittance for those things.

[Bullhajj]

MS needs to have done something like this, though. Tons of people have multiple PC homes. God knows they would have helped XP adoption a bunch if they'd just been a bit more consumer-friendly in that.

But Apple doesn't have the business customers MS does, so I can sorta see why they don't do the same thing. What's to stop a 100 machine shop from only purchasing a fifth of their previous order with this sort of plan?

[chet]

Of course apple can bundle their OS for $199 for 5. They didn't write the core of their OS, they picked it up for free. That saves quite a bit.

Chet

[Supertanker]

Wow, where do you get the stats for like computers? Also, don't you have to buy a license for 3Dmarks? I was looking for some benchmark software not too long ago but it was all pay for software, but I didn't want to spend for a license.

Mad Onion, now named Futuremark, makers of 3DMark, have a search & compare (http://service.futuremark.com/servlet/Index?pageid=/orb/projectsearch) page on their site. When you run the benchmark, it gives you the option to upload the results to their database. If you click on the Accelerator Comparison link on the left, it compares your score to similar computers but with different graphics cards. Mine shows that systems with the same card are 43% faster than my computer - and that is after I OC'd my video card and cranked up my memory timings.

There is a free download (http://www.futuremark.com/download/?3dmark2001.shtml) for 3DMark2001SE, but it lacks a few features from the full release. Most popular benchmarks are free. The UT2003 demo has one, Vulpine GLMark (http://www.vulpine.de/demos_benchmark.html), and the Comanche 4 benchmark (http://www.novalogic.com/downloaddetails.asp?GameKey=C4) come to mind immediately.

[Anonymous]

WinXp Professional Full is all of $30 at the Microsoft Store, all of the software is 10% of MSRP (not Xbox Games though, they're...$25 i think, for the first party stuff). No, I won't pick you up a copy.

[Derek Smart [3000AD]]

WinXp Professional Full is all of $30 at the Microsoft Store.

Fer real? I paid full price for four XP Pro licenses (and I got another via my MSDN sub). Where's the link? cuz I didn't find any such pricing.

[Guido Jones]

Sorry Derek, wasn't clear enough - The Microsoft Employee Store :P Someone else mentioned it above so I thought I'd jump in with current pricing.

[Ben Sones]

Directron.com will sell you copies of Windows at OEM prices if you buy them with hardware. Of course, their definition of "hardware" is pretty loose: a mouse pad qualifies. ;)

[Dave Long]

What Ben said...most online retailers will sell you XP at OEM pricing if you buy something as simple as a mouse or keyboard.

--Dave

[JeffL]

Newegg is typical, they'll sell you an OEM copy of XP Home, with SP1, for about $90. You can buy an upgrade to XP Home for about the same price from a retail store.

[Anonymous]

You might as well buy just one Win2000 Pro and use it on all 5 computers -- you get the stability of WinXP without all the glitzy front-end stuff. I do think the photo thumbnails XP puts on folders full of picturs are way cool though, so that's one thing you'll miss.

You won't be able to run older games, but you can't run them with XP either. I haven't had any issues with games not working in 2000 that do work in XP.

[Bullhajj]

You might as well buy just one Win2000 Pro and use it on all 5 computers --

I don't get this. If you're going to pirate anyway why would you spend whatever W2k costs *and* pirate an old OS? This makes no sense. Just do the thing wumpus said and be done with it.

[Dave Long]

...or take the moral high road and buy a copy for each PC.

--Dave

[Kalle]

I don't get this. If you're going to pirate anyway why would you spend whatever W2k costs *and* pirate an old OS? This makes no sense. Just do the thing wumpus said and be done with it.

Because while most people disapprove of outright stealing they believe that once they buy something they should be free to do whatever the hell they want with it.

Microsofts license agreement collides with the general public's sense of ownership.

[Anonymous]

Also, windows 2000 isn't really 'old' in a useful sense. It's still kept up to date, it's just that the service pack number is higher.

[Ben Sones]

Because while most people disapprove of outright stealing they believe that once they buy something they should be free to do whatever the hell they want with it.

Microsofts license agreement collides with the general public's sense of ownership.

Last I checked, the general public lacks the legal autonomy to interpret the law however it likes.

[Kalle]

Because while most people disapprove of outright stealing they believe that once they buy something they should be free to do whatever the hell they want with it.

Microsofts license agreement collides with the general public's sense of ownership.

Last I checked, the general public lacks the legal autonomy to interpret the law however it likes.

True, but since the police won't be knocking at anyone's door for installing windows on three computers instead of one the general public can do as they please. If there is no enforcement the general public has all the autonomy it needs.

[Jason Becker]

"I don't get this. If you're going to pirate anyway why would you spend whatever W2k costs *and* pirate an old OS?"

Well you can still update a copy of Win2K, vs that coparate WinXP warzed copy since it doesn't have the registration requirements of XP.

[Bullhajj]

"I don't get this. If you're going to pirate anyway why would you spend whatever W2k costs *and* pirate an old OS?"

Well you can still update a copy of Win2K, vs that coparate WinXP warzed copy since it doesn't have the registration requirements of XP.

That's what the genkey utility is for. You use it to generate a key so you can update.

[Sean Tudor]

Damned XP registration crap.

[Aleck]

"I don't get this. If you're going to pirate anyway why would you spend whatever W2k costs *and* pirate an old OS?"

Well you can still update a copy of Win2K, vs that coparate WinXP warzed copy since it doesn't have the registration requirements of XP.

That's what the genkey utility is for. You use it to generate a key so you can update.

I don't know since I don't have a warez copy of XP, but can't you just download the service packs for XP? Just download the network copy of SP-1 and install it? (see http://download.microsoft.com/download/whistler/SP/SP1/WXP/EN-US/xpsp1_en_x86.exe for the network copy).

Or does the warez WinXP prevent you from installing the network copy, too? I didn't even know they did a key check with Windows update! :oops:

[westyx2]

The service pack has a list of the commonly used corporate keys that most warezed winxp installs use.

[Kalle]

From what I read when I installed SP1 there was only two commonly pirated keys that prevented SP1 from being installed.

I expect the number of banned keys to be increased in SP2 though

[DavidCPA]

I would like to point out that the person who posted this thread barely escaped major injury in a train wreck shortly after his post. Coincidence? Maybe, but MS is known for their hardball tatics in making sure their OS is everyone's OS.

-DavidCPA

[wumpus]

Didn't we cover this joke in the other thread? OMG LOL!