So, I got into Univ. of Penn and Yale

[Jose Liz]

I'm not sure where to go. I have pretty much a free ride to both, but I'm leaning towards University of Pennsylvania because Wharton School is ranked #1 consistently in terms of business/management undergrad programs. That said, I'm going to attend both universities' admitted students day to get an impression of the campuses.

Does anyone here have any information I may consider useful?

[Bullhajj]

Awesome, congratulations Jose Liz

[Lunch of Kong]

If you're a social butterfly, consider Yale. The friends you make at Yale will have richer and more influential parents than the friends you'll make at Penn State. Even if you don't end up getting employment leads through them, they're at least good for a couple of paid ski-trips to the Alps, and maybe a week in a luxury palace in India.

On a more serious note (but not much more serious - social contacts are very important), you can't go wrong with either. Penn is reputed to have the the better business school, Yale adds more prestige to your resume.

If you're a good student, you'll be able to get an excellent education out of both colleges. Just don't screw it up. :-)

[Squirrel Killer]

My rowing coach went to Penn and did his doctorate at Yale before coming to the boonies to do his post-doctorate work at the Univerity of Iowa and watch farm boys catch crabs like New England fishermen. While I seem to recall him having liked Penn more, I'll always remember him asking us about our grades and commenting that with the enforced curve, it was harder to get a good GPA at Iowa than either of his alma maters. I cling to that faint hope whilst I cry myself to sleep as you damn Ivies quaff insanely overpriced decadent beverages out of the nether regions of supermodels in the state rooms of your triple hulled double catamaran ocean liners.

Not that I'm envious or anything.

Oh and...

...Penn State...

FYI Jose, no one confuses Yale with any other college. :wink:

[Alan Dunkin]

Rory Gilmore goes to Yale and, if the show is any indication, looks like a good place to learn.

On a more serious note, congrats, you people who get into rich schools with free rides are... great. Really.

--- Alan

[Bullhajj]

no one confuses Yale with any other college

It's not Penn State?

[Squirrel Killer]

You tell me... Penn (http://www.penn.edu) vs. Penn State (http://www.psu.edu/). Unless there's some sort of personal tie to Penn State, the decision between near full rides at both Yale and Penn State is no brainer.

[Jose Liz]

Full rides at Yale and University of Pennsylvania (Penn, not Penn Sate).

Penn State is a solid state university. Better than NJ's equivalent (Rutgers). University of Pennsylvania ("Penn") is an Ivy League, ranked #4 in the country, #1 for business.

FYI Jose, no one confuses Yale with any other college.

This is extremely frustrating. Thankfully, Wharton School is generally well known among business folks. If it was any other major, Yale would be the obvious choice. But I'm not sure about my particular major.

Now that we are sure of the schools we're comparing, any comments?

Thanks for the congrats, btw :)

[Matthew Gallant]

Dude, you gave Max Payne 2 a 9.8. Go to Yale; you're obviously into grade inflation.

[Bullhajj]

Full rides at Yale and University of Pennsylvania (Penn, not Penn Sate).

Penn State is a solid state university. Better than NJ's equivalent (Rutgers). University of Pennsylvania ("Penn") is an Ivy League, ranked #4 in the country, #1 for business.

Ah, I get it. I guess I'm not the only one that makes this mistake. I grew up in Harrisburg so you would think I would know better.

[James Gutierrez]

Congratulations Jose. I went to Penn, and even though it was a while ago (Wh 91), some of this might be useful:

1. Assuming it's still around in some form or another, you should look into the M&T (Management and Technology) program, a joint degree program between Wharton and Moore School of Engineering. In my case, I had an opportunity to finish a year early if I just stuck with Wharton, but if I had had a full ride I definitely would have gone M&T.

2. Even if you don't go M&T, head down to the Moore school and check out the Eniac exhibit. Very cool.

3. Philadelphia Cheesesteaks. 'nuff said.

4. Honestly, Philadelphia vs. New Haven. C'mon.

5. Franklin Field and the Palestra are two of the greatest, most historic sporting venues in the country. Even if you don't like sports, they're great places to watch a game.

6. Wharton is not just a name, you'll really get a good education if you go Wharton undergrad. You'll find that once you get past the 100 level courses, a lot of your classes are the exact same as the grad students are taking. Be prepared, though. Because of the overlap with the grad program a lot of the classes, particularly the upper level Fin classes, are much more businesslike than your average college class.

7. As you've already seen, be prepared for a lifetime of explaning Penn/Penn State. When I was there the bookstore sold t-shirts with the Penn seal and below it "Not Penn State". Seriously though, regardless of the latest rankings, it's just a fact that Yale has more name recognition than Penn.

8. If you go to Penn and live on campus, do whatever you can to get a room in the quad. I visited campus just once before deciding to go and the only dorm that I remembered was Hill House because of the big atrium. Well, "Hell House" is about as socially segregated from the rest of the campus as possible without being off campus. The other dorms aren't much better.

9. As far as social contacts, I don't know. I suspect that Yale might have more of the "upper crust", but I really don't think it matters that much. You're going to meet tons of interesting people wherever you go. Frankly, I'd take a connection that can get you into lifeguard parties at the Jersey shore over ski trips any day. That said, you've given me the perfect opportunity to shamelessly name drop, so I will say that I spent just about every weekend for 2 years playing football with Harold Ford and that one night he brought all of his considerable political and diplomatic skills to bear in service of preventing my drunk ass from getting killed by one of the black fraternities.

Anyway, PM me if you have any questions.

[John Many Jars]

Jose Liz, I won't recommend one school, but here are some things to consider.

1) Undergrad programs linked to big-name grad programs don't bring the same prestige as their big brothers. That's true of Wharton, Northwestern's Medill program in journalism, Iowa's undergrad creative writing courses, etc. Penn's business major may be #1, but MBAs are the key qualifier in business-world hires, not bachelor's degrees. A Wharton bachelor's should help you get into business school...but see my next point.

2) If you're circa 18, don't be 100% sure you won't change your life plans during college. You might consider which school's curriculum you consider to be better rounded, to have more options you can dabble in as you go. If you never change your major, this will still improve your experience and your education.

3) The name recognition factor may seem funny, but it's real. My undergrad was at the U. of Chicago, and I know. :wink:

4) At Yale, a significant fraction of the undergrads are legacy admissions, let in because their parents/grandparents are monied alumni, not because they're qualified. These people will be dead weight in your classes, which you may find annoying. (On the other hand, you may become friends with them and get invited onto their yacht for Spring Break.) But either way, Penn is much less likely to surround you with blue-blooded dummies.

5) JamesG is right; New Haven is a shithole.

[SpoofyChop]

New Haven does indeed suck, but the area Penn is in is not so great either. I think you should have tried harder to get into Harvard Jose.

:wink:

[VegasRobb]

Congrats! The first two points of JMJs post are dead on. What percentage of undergrads from each are accepted into MBA programs? And your goals can change, big time.

I had a very similiar choice (Yale versus Penn versus Carnegie Mellon), except that it was driven by financial aid packages because they did not offer football scholarships. Because I had to pay (or repay) tons of money, I decided that both were too far from home and attend school a bit closer. All the scholarship money was closer to the west coast.

Keep us posted and good luck!

[Gav]

I was at Penn, engineering, not Wharton. But I can tell that a lot of the Wharton undergrads were frustrated by a combination of two things:

1. As someone else mentioned above, Wharton undergrad doesn't have the same cachet as Wharton grad school.

2. Once you're in the undergrad program, it's much harder to get into the grad program. AFAIK, outside of Harvard, grad schools don't like to take folks who went to that institution as undergrads.

Personally, I loved Penn, but I can't really compare it to Yale--I only know one person who went there, and she was very bitter about the whole experience.

Gav

[fire]

My experience with Gav's second point has been that an institution is OK continuing its undergrads to the Master's program, but not the Ph.D. For a Ph.D., they expect you to be well-rounded, which for them means attending at least two different universities. Although technically it can be done, it may hinder you in the future.

[SpoofyChop]

It's pretty stunning how incredibly absurd and hypocritical academia has become. When the undergrad school can take your money, but then when you want to get into the grad program they say "you're not qualified because you went here."

:roll:

[mouselock]

It's pretty stunning how incredibly absurd and hypocritical academia has become. When the undergrad school can take your money, but then when you want to get into the grad program they say "you're not qualified because you went here."

:roll:

They don't say "You're not qualified." They say (probably rightfully so) "There are more interpretations on this than just ours, and if you're really going to make a name for yourself, maybe you ought to have some differing interpretations and experiences behind you."

College is horrible for getting any real experience for the most part. Everything happens in an ivory tower, and it's really easy to lose touch with the real world. This is why people are encouraged to attend differing schools and move on; it's at least a smidgeon more representative of a well-rounded, real-world viewpoint.

[SpoofyChop]

They say (probably rightfully so) "There are more interpretations on this than just ours, and if you're really going to make a name for yourself, maybe you ought to have some differing interpretations and experiences behind you."

If academics actually said this kind of thing it would be great. Unfortunately most disciplines enshrine the same old boring liberal dogmas and refuse to even consider the idea that people outhgt to have some differing interpretations.

Maybe business school is an exception...I don't know.

[mouselock]

They say (probably rightfully so) "There are more interpretations on this than just ours, and if you're really going to make a name for yourself, maybe you ought to have some differing interpretations and experiences behind you."

If academics actually said this kind of thing it would be great. Unfortunately most disciplines enshrine the same old boring liberal dogmas and refuse to even consider the idea that people outhgt to have some differing interpretations.

Maybe business school is an exception...I don't know.

Err.. I am in academia, and that's what I've heard repeatedly through all my looking. People are very hesitant to accept you at the same place multiple degrees in a row for just that reason (exception for a master's that's considered a non-terminal degree; which is more prevalent in some fields than others). This is also what professionals have told me as I look into postdocs. (Although there it's gone from "going to the same school" to "working in the same area of research".)

[Jose Liz]

Wharton School Undergrad carries a great deal of prestige. At least, the average starting salary is considerably higher for a Wharton UG graduate than even the next best (NYU Stern).

I will ask on Wharton UGs having a hard time getting into Wharton graduate, though.

Thanks for all the input!

I'm visiting both campuses next week, so I'll keep you'll updated.

[Jose Liz]

Hi Jose,

I have never heard that before. There are actually a number of former Wharton undergraduates who are currently now MBAs. Three of my classmates (I graduated in 2002) were just accepted to this year's MBA class, and I am sure there are more.

One thing that we do know is that only about 30% of Wharton undergrads ever go on to get an MBA (we survey grads up to 15 years out). They end up with the same jobs and same salaries as those who go back for their MBAs so their undergraduate degree is largely seen as a terminal degree (only 50% go on for any advanced degree).

If Wharton undergrads do go back for their MBA, they usually don't come back to Wharton. You really are getting an MBA quality education (same faculty, many similar if not same courses, etc.) so they don't feel the need to come back and do the same thing all over again. They are more likely to go to b-school at Harvard, Stanford, Chicago, etc., not Wharton.

What you may have heard is that it is difficult to submatriculate into the MBA program (get your BS and MBA in 5 years). This is true.