PDA

View Full Version : Republican Co-dependancy


Sharpe
03-23-2005, 09:28 AM
Brian Rucker said in the Terri Schiavo thread:

It's looking to me like the reign of the religious right will only be ended if the "enablers", meaning moderate, libertarian and process conservatives just threaten to walk away from the party. Anything short of that means they'll just continue to be tolerated as propagandistic meatshields, worth trotting out only to convince the public the GOP aren't all complete nuts, for the religious right's agenda.

This is something I've been thinking since last year: I continue to be frustrated that a lot of the level headed libertarian or moderate/conservative types in the Republican party don't seem to have noticed (or don't care, or at least don't care enough) that the group in power in Washington under the guise of the Republican party is actually a coalition of fringe elements from within the Republicans, not united by conservative principal but by a weird combination of power, religious belief and idealogical fanaticism.

Without the libertarians and mod-conservatives to give them intellectual cover and to add to their voting numbers, the extremist coalition driving the Bush administration would be a pack of weak fringe groups, not a powerful force ramming special laws down our throats.

I understand the Democrats are not the answer for most of the libertarians and mod/cons (due to the Demo's own problems with idiotic socialist or PC or pacifist fringe groups, as well as the Demo's lack of a coherent message, and weak choices in recent candidates). But just b/c the Demos are not an option doesn't mean you have to accept Bush/Rove/Santorum/Delay as the ONLY option.

Change the balance of power within the Repubs. Vote out DeLay and get a more ethical (and more articulate) Speaker. Choose a better candidate in 08 than Frist or Brownback or Santorum. Don't just slavisly follow Bush even when he blows long held conservative principals to shreds on the altar of political expediency.

Unless you guys take your party back, we're all in for a long next few years.

Of course one alternate option is for the Demos to control their own loony fringe, get their heads out of their asses on a clear and workable message, and field some good candidates. But I'm not too optimistic :).

I left the Demoratic party several years ago and now I just vote for the best candidate. Nowadays, I probably vote Demo 50%, Republican 25% and third party 25%. Maybe some of you Repubs ought to think about that too.

Holding your nose and voting for Bush b/c you feel Kerry is a shitty option just empowers Bush to keep pandering to the extremists. Libertarian dislike of liberal big government is just empowering religious / social conservative big government. It's political co-dependancy.

MikeSofaer
03-23-2005, 09:37 AM
It's too early in the morning to talk so depressing. Sad as it is to say, it may be Arnold that is the future hope of the Republican party. His lack of Christian weirdoness would have kept him off any actual Republican ticket, only the recall gave him a chance, but in a lot of ways he represents the values the Republican party had before they needed Jesus to help them get elected. His speech at the convention really resonated with me, talking about how he'd left a socialist country only to find McGovern talking exactly like his own politicians, hearing Nixon, asking "What party is he?" "He's a Repiblican" "Then I am a Republican". I hope people try to emulate him elsewhere, and maybe bring the GOP back to earth.

Derek Meister
03-23-2005, 10:02 AM
Calvin speaks out on the political situation in the US:

http://images.ucomics.com/comics/ch/1994/ch940322.gif

Brian Rucker
03-23-2005, 11:25 AM
Personally I'm not too fond of Arnie but I was talking with my boss, a moderate Republican himself and a sometimes foil of my political diatribes, and I asked him, "Okay, who's the one guy most famous for killing off evil high priests and sorceror-kings? And isn't he the one guy who can save the Republicans from themselves right now?"

"Conan. Am I right?"

Now he'd never get my vote but, fuck, man I'd rather have a semi-coherent Germannic barbarian as my political opposition than raving loonies. At least I know what this whole raping and pillaging deal is about (pro-business social Darwinism) but the rituals and dogma of ressurrecting some ancient being (Rapture politics) to trigger some kind of world apocalypse just freaks me out.

shift6
03-23-2005, 07:48 PM
It wouldn't have hurt if the ad hoc motto of the Left during this last election was something besides "anyone but Bush". How many votes did that throw away into the Green, Reform, and Libertarian parties? Just a thought.

Bub, Andrew
03-23-2005, 08:21 PM
His speech at the convention really resonated with me, talking about how he'd left a socialist country only to find McGovern talking exactly like his own politicians, hearing Nixon, asking "What party is he?" "He's a Repiblican" "Then I am a Republican". I hope people try to emulate him elsewhere, and maybe bring the GOP back to earth.

So you're saying you'd like to see future Republicans take their inspiration from Richard Nixon? I cringed when I heard that story (even though I actually like many of Arnie's policies - he's a real moderate) because I kept thinking: Nixon? Maybe it's a true story, but it'd work much better if it was the Gipper who did the inspirin'.

MikeSofaer
03-23-2005, 09:46 PM
Nixon was a multifaceted guy. He's more or less the poster child for presidential misconduct, but there is more too him than that. It's too bad, I guess, that Arnie's inspiration has the "I am not a crook" taint, but in the end it's about being inspired by the principle of self-reliance and self-determination that matters, not who happened to be expressing it.

It's the idea that there is a popular, if not truly mainstream, Republican out there saying "I'm about freedom. I support abortion, tax cuts and smaller government" that's so refreshing. Maybe they can get the Moral Majority to join the socialists in the Democratic Party, and take the gay rights people in exchange. Then it wouldn't be such a choice between two evils.

Jason McCullough
03-24-2005, 09:37 AM
If you want the GOP to become the party of non-religion and Milton Friedman, go right ahead; you'll hand the country to the Democrats. Self-reliance polls for shit.

MikeSofaer
03-24-2005, 09:56 AM
Then why did Arnold win?

mystery
03-24-2005, 10:07 AM
It's the idea that there is a popular, if not truly mainstream, Republican out there saying "I'm about freedom. I support abortion, tax cuts and smaller government" that's so refreshing.

If you watch West Wing at all, you've just described Alan Alda's character to a tee. I wonder if the writers there are saying something. He's particularly likeable in that character, and that's coming from me -- a campaign worker for Kerry.

Midnight Son
03-24-2005, 10:29 AM
Then why did Arnold win?

Because the national majority of idiots is well represented in the most populous state?

MikeSofaer
03-24-2005, 10:32 AM
Then why did Arnold win?

Because the national majority of idiots is well represented in the most populous state?
People who think genetically modified food is worse for you? I didn't think they voted for Arnold.

Dirt
03-24-2005, 10:35 AM
Then why did Arnold win?
Because he's a movie star Republican with a Democrat wife.

Jason McCullough
03-24-2005, 10:49 AM
Then why did Arnold win?

He ran a save-the-children & stop-the-corrupt-governor campaign in a strange multiple candidate recall race, was a movie star, and he still didn't break 50%. I'm actually expecting him to lose next time if the Democrats put up a half-decent candidate. The right kind of candidate can get elected with just about any political platform, no matter how unpopular, but you shouldn't confuse that with "libertarianism is a viable political strategy in the United States."

MikeSofaer
03-24-2005, 10:59 AM
Then why did Arnold win?

He ran a save-the-children & stop-the-corrupt-governor campaign in a strange multiple candidate recall race, was a movie star, and he still didn't break 50%. I'm actually expecting him to lose next time if the Democrats put up a half-decent candidate. The right kind of candidate can get elected with just about any political platform, no matter how unpopular, but you shouldn't confuse that with "libertarianism is a viable political strategy in the United States."
Well, he was a relative political unknown at the time of the race. He's much better known now and he's pretty popular, to the point where his threats to bypass the legislature on his political agenda are credible. But you're right, I shouldn't get my hopes up, and his victory was probably due more the Grey Davis being corrupt than a return of positive feeling for pre-Christian-Rule Repbulicanism.

Tyrion Lannister
03-24-2005, 10:20 PM
I find it interesting that you consider the Democrats to be rife with fringe loonies. To almost every other country in the world they are right-wing with a few right-wing moderates.

There doesn't appear to be any kind of left-wing in this country. The closest I can see are some of the more balanced libertarians, and they pretend to be Republicans.

I'm not suprised people vote for movie stars. If they aren't following the dictates of their church that is.

bago
03-24-2005, 10:36 PM
Actually, there's been a lot of talk today about the fracturing of the republican party. It's getting top billing at all of the libertarian/conservative sites, like instapundit, andrewsullivan, and volokh.