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View Full Version : Now the laws themselves are secret



Jason McCullough
02-22-2005, 12:59 AM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A40624-2005Feb20?language=printer


ATTORNEYS FOR the Justice Department appeared before a federal judge in Washington this month and asked him to dismiss a lawsuit over the detention of a U.S. citizen, basing their request not merely on secret evidence but also on secret legal arguments. The government contends that the legal theory by which it would defend its behavior should be immune from debate in court. This position is alien to the history and premise of Anglo-American jurisprudence, which assumes that opposing lawyers will challenge one another's arguments.

Ahmed Abu Ali was arrested in June 2003 in Saudi Arabia. He and his family claim the arrest took place at the behest of U.S. officials who, though unable to bring a case against him, have encouraged the Saudis to keep him locked up. The facts are murky, and Judge John D. Bates refused in December to dismiss the case, writing that he needed more information before he could decide whether a U.S. court has jurisdiction.

Since then, the U.S. government has acted to frustrate all reasonable searches for answers. It has moved to stay discovery based on secret evidence. It has proposed adding to the facts at Judge Bates's disposal by submitting secret evidence that Mr. Abu Ali's attorneys would have no opportunity to challenge. Most recently, it urged that the case be dismissed on the basis, yet again, of secret evidence -- this time supplemented with what a Justice Department lawyer termed "legal argument [that] itself cannot be made public without disclosing the classified information that underlies it."

Judge Bates is cautious and generally deferential to government concerns. Yet he was evidently disturbed by this argument, at one point asking whether the government could identify "any case in which . . . even the legal theory for dismissal is not known to the other side?" The government could not.

In this case, the liberty of a U.S. citizen is at stake. It is not clear what role the U.S. government played in his arrest, nor that he is innocent. What is clear is that Mr. Abu Ali has been held for 20 months without being charged and that, as Judge Bates wrote in December, his lawyers "have presented some unrebutted evidence that [his] detention is at the behest and ongoing direction of United States officials." It should be unthinkable that the courts would resolve this matter without hearing from both sides on key legal questions. It should have been unthinkable for the government to propose such a step.

I cannot believe this.

Midnight Son
02-22-2005, 03:55 AM
Remember the good old days when Americans still had rights.....?

Timemaster Tim
02-22-2005, 04:51 AM
But... But... It's all in the name of War against Terrorism! If we can't arbitrarily run roughshod over the rights of citizens, then the Terrorsist win! Or something like that.

Duality
02-22-2005, 05:07 AM
No no, Tim, you have it wrong.

Its, "If we don't run roughshod over their rights, they might run roughshod over our rights! With a plane!"

Ch. Hasslbauer
02-22-2005, 05:26 AM
Your problem seems to be that Dubya is exporting American Freedom (TM) so efficiently to Iraq and Afghanistan that there's not enough left for US citizens. Like Chet said, "Misson too accomplished!"

John Many Jars
02-22-2005, 05:36 AM
Your problem seems to be that Dubya is exporting American Freedom (TM) so efficiently to Iraq and Afghanistan that there's not enough left for US citizens.

They make it in China now anyway. It breaks easily.

foogla
02-22-2005, 06:51 AM
Your problem seems to be that Dubya is exporting American Freedom (TM) so efficiently to Iraq and Afghanistan that there's not enough left for US citizens.

They make it in China now anyway. It breaks easily.

Also the refund policy for it sucks.

Moore
02-22-2005, 04:44 PM
You shouldnt have broken the shrink wrap!

Jason Cross
02-22-2005, 05:00 PM
Your problem seems to be that Dubya is exporting American Freedom (TM) so efficiently to Iraq and Afghanistan that there's not enough left for US citizens.

They make it in China now anyway. It breaks easily.

Also the refund policy for it sucks.

And if you really want some, you have to like, preorder it and put $10 down, or you'll have to wait for the next shipment.

Moore
02-22-2005, 05:50 PM
Your problem seems to be that Dubya is exporting American Freedom (TM) so efficiently to Iraq and Afghanistan that there's not enough left for US citizens.

They make it in China now anyway. It breaks easily.

Also the refund policy for it sucks.

And if you really want some, you have to like, preorder it and put $10 down, or you'll have to wait for the next shipment.

I read on a blog you can legalyl download it in Kanadia!

Nick Walter
02-23-2005, 09:26 AM
Interestingly enough, they publically put out a 6-count federal indictment on this guy yesterday. Apparently we did have some dirt on him after all.


http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/283644p-242972c.html

Jason McCullough
02-23-2005, 09:41 AM
Nice of them to get around to it.


Even if he made the threats alleged, Daily News sources downplayed the seriousness of the threat against Bush's life, describing Abu Ali's alleged tough talk as only slightly more serious than an idle threat by a barroom drunk.

One federal law enforcement source noted that the Secret Service would have had a major role in the case if Bush were in any imminent danger.

Hmm.....