Cat Stevens, (Osama's right hand- JK!) wins libel suit

[Midnight Son]

http://www.examiner.ie/breaking/story.asp?j=50038560&p=5xx388z4&n=50038852&x


Singer Yusuf Islam has announced he's won substantial damages from two British newspapers which alleged he supported terrorism.

The British star, formerly known as Cat Stevens, was travelling on a flight from London to Washington, DC, when it was diverted to Bangor, Maine, in September before he was deported from the United States.

The US Homeland Security Department said he was deported after his name turned up on US "no fly" lists because of activities they said could be potentially linked to terrorism.

British publications The Sun and The Sunday Times suggested the US authorities had been right to refuse Islam entry to the country.


Islam says: "I am delighted by the settlement which helps vindicate my character and good name.

"It seems to me the easiest thing in the world these days to make scurrilous accusations against Muslims, and in my case it directly impacts on my relief work and damages my reputation as an artist. The harm done is often difficult to repair."

The 57-year-old singer intends to contribute the undisclosed damages he receives to projects for orphans hit by the Indian Ocean tsunami.

He visited Indonesia in January (05) and is set to release a charity single called Indian Ocean later this month.

Well, you know, he just looked "un-American" and we had to deport him....

[extarbags]

http://www.examiner.ie/breaking/story.asp?j=50038560&p=5xx388z4&n=50038852&x


Singer Yusuf Islam has announced he's won substantial damages from two British newspapers which alleged he supported terrorism.

The British star, formerly known as Cat Stevens, was travelling on a flight from London to Washington, DC, when it was diverted to Bangor, Maine, in September before he was deported from the United States.

The US Homeland Security Department said he was deported after his name turned up on US "no fly" lists because of activities they said could be potentially linked to terrorism.

British publications The Sun and The Sunday Times suggested the US authorities had been right to refuse Islam entry to the country.


Islam says: "I am delighted by the settlement which helps vindicate my character and good name.

"It seems to me the easiest thing in the world these days to make scurrilous accusations against Muslims, and in my case it directly impacts on my relief work and damages my reputation as an artist. The harm done is often difficult to repair."

The 57-year-old singer intends to contribute the undisclosed damages he receives to projects for orphans hit by the Indian Ocean tsunami.

He visited Indonesia in January (05) and is set to release a charity single called Indian Ocean later this month.

Well, you know, he just looked "un-American" and we had to deport him....

What are you talking about? Of course he's un-American... he's from England, isn't he?

[Midnight Son]

Plus, he had one of those kinds of names that Cassius Clay took......

[Nellie]

The s*n and the times made those sort of accusations against him? Surely not those bastions of reasoned, informed, editorially free journalism?.

I hope they get taken to the cleaners.

[Linoleum]

Well, you know, he just looked "un-American" and we had to deport him....

Would anybody object to Germany barring Pat Boone if he had been hanging out with groups associated with Aryan Nation? :roll:

[BrewersDroop]

Uh. Yeah. I. Would.

[foogla]

I would too.

[Midnight Son]

Well, you know, he just looked "un-American" and we had to deport him....

Would anybody object to Germany barring Pat Boone if he had been hanging out with groups associated with Aryan Nation? :roll:

Well, under German law, zat iss verboten!

[Ch. Hasslbauer]

Are you totally out of your mind, linoleum? Did you really just put the muslim world and Aryan Nation in the same box? Or - how thoughtful - groups associated with Aryan Nation.

There is no help for you.

[Uncle Larry]

We're getting away from the point here, people.

Fuck Cat Stevens.

[Linoleum]

Are you totally out of your mind, linoleum? Did you really just put the muslim world and Aryan Nation in the same box? Or - how thoughtful - groups associated with Aryan Nation.

There is no help for you.

I do not lump Hamas in with the rest of the muslim world, no.

It would help if you don't leap to the worst possible extrapoliation possible when I am terse and use it to slander my character. As when making posts assume it was common knowledge why Cat Stevens became a controversial figure. If you are only reading sources implying it's merely because he converted to Islam, I'd argue there isn't much help for you.

Aryan Nation also might be more viscerally repugnant than Hamas (and don't have any charitable wings), but ironically they've wracked up far less of a bodycount.

[Ch. Hasslbauer]

You're right about the ad hominem. I apologize, that was pretty dumb. But I don't see how the Mossad's accusations of CS funding Hamas hold enough water for the US to do anything about it. If the Mossad has reason to belief he did so, why does British security still don't know anything about it?

And there's still no way lumping together sheer stupidity and hate like Aryan Nation's and, well, stupidity and hate understandably evoked by unrightful subjugation of a people, like Hamas'.

[Lizard_King]

You're right about the ad hominem. I apologize, that was pretty dumb. But I don't see how the Mossad's accusations of CS funding Hamas hold enough water for the US to do anything about it. If the Mossad has reason to belief he did so, why does British security still don't know anything about it?
Most intel stuff consists of circumstantial evidence and reasoning out chains of events. The Mossad by their very nature tend to err on the side of guilt, the British tend to err in the other direction. I would distrust both based on their stake in the matter, and I'd say in this one it is simply that the western standard for libel/slander is incompatible with reasonable guesses from the intel community. If you hang out with Hamas for their charitable work, you are either an idiot or a liar. It's like joining the Aryan nation out of a fondness for trains running on time. The British probably see no point in pursuing it, since ol' Cat is obviously pretty low on the useful idiot scale, and are thus being practical. The Mossad faces no consequences, so it sees nothing but a gain in tarnishing someone's reputation...but they rarely act without a reason.


And there's still no way lumping together sheer stupidity and hate like Aryan Nation's and, well, stupidity and hate understandably evoked by unrightful subjugation of a people, like Hamas'.
Why? Because your personal predilections make you more comfortable with one than the other?

Also, I think Uncle Larry really hit it on the head.

[Jason McCullough]

It's like joining the Aryan nation out of a fondness for trains running on time.

No, it's not, because the aryans have never expressed the slightest interest in government efficiency.

By contrast, though it's apparently impossible for us to accept, Hamas *does* do charity work.

[Lizard_King]

It's like joining the Aryan nation out of a fondness for trains running on time.

No, it's not, because the aryans have never expressed the slightest interest in government efficiency.
So you're telling me that you really don't understand my analogy? It's that heartbreakingly difficult to see an evolutionary line between Naziism and Aryan Nation? Or you're just using your trademark literal/circular reasoning attack to annoy your opponents, real or imagined, into submission. I eagerly await the referencing of other people's really longwinded blogs as your counterargument.


By contrast, though it's apparently impossible for us to accept, Hamas *does* do charity work.
The main difference I can see is that you all cut Hamas a lot more slack for being more mainstream and successful despite its overt repugnance, whereas the Aryan Nation is confined to a niche role by the circumstances of the people it tries to represent and the places it tries to succeed in...also, it's always a lot easier to hate whitey, I guess.
It's that very *moderate* success that makes Hamas the worse of the two in practical terms. It's powerful enough to fuck everything up, indefinitely, and have a real say in prolonging its own existence.

[Jason McCullough]

It's that heartbreakingly difficult to see an evolutionary line between Naziism and Aryan Nation?

Naziism was a social movement and political party with many goals: racism, state power, efficiency (hence trains running on time), breaking unions, a million other things.

The Aryan Nation, by contrast, is pretty much just racism, which is why the analogy makes no sense.


The main difference I can see is that you all cut Hamas a lot more slack for being more mainstream and successful despite its overt repugnance.

Not really; I sure as hell wouldn't give them anything. But the terrorist organization with a charity wing is a pretty common occurence:

* The US mafia of the early 20th century
* Sein Fein

So is it unlikely that Cat was really all why-I-was-just-doing-charity? Yeah. Impossible, no.

[Lizard_King]

Naziism was a social movement and political party with many goals: racism, state power, efficiency (hence trains running on time), breaking unions, a million other things.

The Aryan Nation, by contrast, is pretty much just racism, which is why the analogy makes no sense.
Are you really going to demand that I start delving through their websites for obvious counterexamples? I don't even know which particular Aryan nation was being discussed (is it copyrighted?)....I simply assumed it was shorthand for "neonazis that there is no risk of anyone here defending in any way". You know, kind of how their Nazi forebears make the easy choice for objectively evil bad guys in media, and how their equally heinous Communist counterparts are a more controversial because of the complex web of sympathies they inspire, Hamas-like?



The main difference I can see is that you all cut Hamas a lot more slack for being more mainstream and successful despite its overt repugnance.Not really; I sure as hell wouldn't give them anything. But the terrorist organization with a charity wing is a pretty common occurence:
* The US mafia of the early 20th century
* Sein Fein
So is it unlikely that Cat was really all why-I-was-just-doing-charity? Yeah. Impossible, no.
Right. Wait, so we agree and are arguing because you are really upset about my failure to properly analyze the particular Aryan lunatics you had in mind? Honestly, I really did not think we were talking about a particular bunch of crazies, but I am sure you recognize that even neonazis and raw racist Aryans have diversified goals. For instance, I am sure they are sure that they could get the trains running on time if they got rid of all those lazy minorities. Are they inarticulate? Sure. Illogical? Sure. But that does not make my fucking obvious analogy hard to comprehend in any way, or even inaccurate.

[Linoleum]

Fine, you want a better analogy? Now Boone is associated with Basque groups with ties to the ETA. Bloody hell, way to nitpick an analogy and miss the actual principal.


By contrast, though it's apparently impossible for us to accept, Hamas *does* do charity work.

I thought I reference that in my first post. I'm not sure how you weigh the moral calculus of "well, we'll try and make sure OUR children are fed, but no qualms about blowing up theirs!".

To me, the issue with CS and the US government isn't that he was directly funding Hamas or had any direct ties. But as a public psuedo-Western psuedo-Muslim pseudo-celebrity, he was careless and unapologetic about some of the company he kept. Security risk? Heavens no. But as a political matter bouncing him at the border makes perfect sense.

[Jason McCullough]

If that's the criteria, there's a lot of Isreali groups we don't want to let in either.


Wait, so we agree and are arguing because you are really upset about my failure to properly analyze the particular Aryan lunatics you had in mind?

No, I'm just annoyed about the "Hamas cannot possibly be a serious charity organization" angle because it's part and parcel of the one-dimensional Level of Freedom(tm) analysis that's causing us so much trouble.

[BrewersDroop]

If that's the criteria, there's a lot of Isreali groups we don't want to let in either..

For that matter, I doubt most US intelligence agencies would pass muster either. They've been funding and otherwise aiding and abetting known terrorist organizations for decades.

[Lizard_King]

No, I'm just annoyed about the "Hamas cannot possibly be a serious charity organization" angle because it's part and parcel of the one-dimensional Level of Freedom(tm) analysis that's causing us so much trouble.
That's your spin. All I said is that associating with Hamas is something that is impossible to divorce from its terrorist backbone. We're not talking about his brother's uncles' sister living across the street from someone who donated to Hamas. At least they're not questioning 80 year old Chinese grandmothers if their going after Cat Fucking Stevens.

But, yeah, I'm sure creating a catch-smear will do wonders for your unnecessary indignation.