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View Full Version : The 14 characteristics of Fascism.



Midnight Son
11-05-2004, 06:49 PM
http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/britt_23_2.htm


For the purpose of this perspective, I will consider the following regimes: Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, Francoís Spain, Salazarís Portugal, Papadopoulosís Greece, Pinochetís Chile, and Suhartoís Indonesia. To be sure, they constitute a mixed bag of national identities, cultures, developmental levels, and history. But they all followed the fascist or protofascist model in obtaining, expanding, and maintaining power. Further, all these regimes have been overthrown, so a more or less complete picture of their basic characteristics and abuses is possible.

1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism.

2. Disdain for the importance of human rights.

3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause.

4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism.

5. Rampant sexism.

6. A controlled mass media.

7. Obsession with national security.

8. Religion and ruling elite tied together.

9. Power of corporations protected.

10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated.

11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts.

12. Obsession with crime and punishment.

13. Rampant cronyism and corruption.

14. Fraudulent elections.

Does any of this ring alarm bells? Of course not. After all, this is America, officially a democracy with the rule of law, a constitution, a free press, honest elections, and a well-informed public constantly being put on guard against evils. Historical comparisons like these are just exercises in verbal gymnastics. Maybe, maybe not.


He writes much more about each one; I just wanted to list them. If this doesn't make you think.....

Robert Sharp
11-05-2004, 07:47 PM
That's why I have been calling Bush a fascist for the last 3 years. That's my list too. It's such a historic pattern that it amazes me that more people don't see it. I am NOT anti-Republican. I am a fiscal conservative, and I voted for a Republican in the House. But Bush is a dangerous, dangerous man. Actually, his advisors are more dangerous; Bush is a puppet, but a great puppet. And one that, like Hitler (and no, I am not trying to say Bush IS Hitler) could go beyond his masters and do damage they never really intended.

Jason McCullough
11-05-2004, 08:15 PM
If Fascism ever comes to America, it will come wrapped in an American flag

Not that I really think we're seeing the beginnings of fascism. But it does worry me.

Neal Stevens
11-05-2004, 08:41 PM
Yuh, but shouldn't it scare you? :?

Brian Koontz
11-05-2004, 10:58 PM
The danger is not that Bush will lead a Fascist nation, the danger is that culture is moving toward Fascism (or a similar variant) and that in 10, 20, or 30 years America will finally be *ready* for Fascism. Right now there is too much baggage, but if "progress" is made in terms of greater economic disparity, fear of external forces, disdain for democracy, disunity, etc. the groundwork for Fascism will be laid, and then it will merely take a charismatic figure to tip the scales.

A lot of what the GOP has been doing over the last 15 years is related to Fascism. They've already succeeded in conditioning America to an extent that the Bush Administration didn't throw up red flags with people.

If you're used to and accepting of Fascism, you don't even CALL it that. You call it "right", or "what I like", or "what I voted for"...

When someone says "But that's Fascist!" the response is "Amen!"

Robert Sharp
11-06-2004, 09:41 AM
Brian is absolutely right. Italy welcomed Mussolini with open arms because they were ready for him. Look at the things on the list. Look at how people like Wagner, Nietzsche, even Goethe all led Germany down the path of fascism. Did they do it deliberately? I doubt it (maybe Nietzsche did, but he never intended Hitler). There were other forces at work (versailles for instance). But government's don't change over night and they don't change because of one person or one small group of people. They change because of changes in culture, climate, and attitude.

Anyone who lived in America when Sept. 11 happened saw that change. Bush et al are feeding it, intentionally or not. The country is moving that way. My father-and-law yelled at my wife for voting for Bush. He said he had rather she be a stripper than vote Democrat. All he listens to is hate radio; all he reads are hate websites. He sees Kerry as a traitor to this country and thinks he should be dealt with accordingly. That's the end of democracy...that attitude. And it's growing.

forgeforsaken
11-06-2004, 09:46 AM
I just started a thread on if America is becoming Fascist...
Anyhow here's a rerun of my post

The more I see of the Bush regime, and the more I study the other fascist states of history the more apparent it becomes that we are rapidly sliding into fascism.

Here are a bunch of articles on the matter, don't know much about the site but (googled) but they have a good collection of various links.
http://www.crisispapers.org/topics/fascism.htm

Everyone should read Henry Wallaces speach on the American Fascism

John Many Jars
11-06-2004, 11:19 AM
http://www.missandrea.com/wisdom1.jpg

Ben
11-06-2004, 11:40 AM
There's a subtle layer of nuance between crazy people who think Kerry is a traitor and insightful people who think Bush is a fascist.


Wait, no, there's not. Idiots.

forgeforsaken
11-06-2004, 12:10 PM
Umm ok Ben. The sad part is, as we slide into fascism there will continue to be people who refuse to see it simply because "it can't happen here." If you understand what fascism is, and if you study history and how it took over other countries, it very much seems like the US is sliding into fascism. Why do you find the idea that the US is becoming fascist so absurd? It is very clear that we have

Here is a good brief on fascism from Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

Ben
11-06-2004, 01:48 PM
As I said, idiots. Keep it up, make the left look worse, because God knows nobody wants a Democrat in 2008.

Midnight Son
11-06-2004, 02:07 PM
Don't worry, Bennie Boy, by the time they come for you, all others will be gone already. :roll:

forgeforsaken
11-06-2004, 02:47 PM
Interesting you assume I'm a Democrat. I've never been registered as one. So try again. I'm independant and have voted for libetarians, greens, republicans, and democrats depending on their viewpoints and what I thought they would bring to the office they were running for.

So instead of just calling me an idiot, how about you explain why you don't think America is sliding into fascism?

John Many Jars
11-06-2004, 03:11 PM
This entire thread is in violation of Godwin's law anyway. :wink:

Tim Partlett
11-06-2004, 04:49 PM
It has to be said that Hermann Goering was one smart guy. Like George Orwell, only evil.

Ben
11-06-2004, 05:40 PM
I have to prove the negative?


How about this: The Patriot Act is so far away from martial law and other oppression that it's an insult to people who have suffered to compare the two. No one is getting suppressed.

Very few, in fact, I'll go ahead and say none of those 14 signs are in evidence in the US any more than in, say, Canada.

You might not be a Democrat, but you're for damn sure an idiot. Bush is as close to Hitler as Kerry was.


Also, you say you've voted for 4 parties. Do you simply not have any important issues, are you always voting for the tallest candidate, what's up?

MikeJ
11-06-2004, 05:58 PM
Very few, in fact, I'll go ahead and say none of those 14 signs are in evidence in the US any more than in, say, Canada.


From a Canadian perspective, I see more evidence in the U.S. of 1,2,4,7,8 and 12.

I think a lot would have to go wrong over the next 20 years for America to fall that way though. Of course, if anyone's up to the task, it's GWB and his successors.

Toddy
11-06-2004, 06:00 PM
You can say it, but you're out of your fucking mind if you actually believe it. Canada isn't undergoing anything like the US is at the moment. And, for the record, we turned down our Conservatives in a national election last spring. Also...

We don't have any hate TV and radio.

We don't have the biggest news channel in the country broadcasting neo-con propaganda.

We don't have fundy Christians dominating the political agenda.

We don't have millions of people mobilizing to fight gays.

We don't have national elections decided on the disenfranchisment of minorities.

We aren't obsessed with national security.

We aren't militaristic--hell, we barely have a military at all (note: I don't think that this is a good thing)

Our idea of nationalism goes no further than getting hammered on Canada Day and going nuts whenever our hockey teams kick American or Russian ass (although I wouldn't push us too far on nationalistic feelings--we're very, very patriotic up here, but we don't think the best way to express that is to speak loudly and carry a big stick).

And so on, and so on. Canada is growing further and further apart from the US mainstream all the time. You've got a government powered solely by fear. That's wildly out of step with the rest of the Western world, let alone just Canada, and if you aren't at least somewhat fearful about the country sliding into fascism, you'd better open your eyes.

Ben
11-06-2004, 06:37 PM
Brett- Yeah, my argument was that none of that is true in America. Really, I'm tired of this shit. You guys need to take a deep breath and grow up. It's just another day. Your boy lost, and I'm displeased. But it's not the end of the world.

Brett, how often have you seen Fox News? You guys can't get your impression of America from breathlessly outraged liberal blogs.

Also, isn't the reason you guys don't have hate TV and radio is because of your oppressive media control laws?



The obession with national security is wholy because of 9/11, and you can't really blame us on that.

Here's a restatement:

Any of those things that are true are either not a magic harbinger of fascism or also true in other countries.

Toddy
11-06-2004, 07:05 PM
My opinions about Fox News are first-hand, I'll leave it at that. I watched a lot of it leading up to the election and on election night, just to get a feel for it. It's ludicrous and biased. I think the so-called lefty spin on it is actually too soft. It's the neocon Al Jazeera.

Oppressive media control laws? What the hell are you talking about? The only rules I'm aware of govern foreign control. There are limits on this, so foreign companies can't come in and simply buy up all our sources of news. Which is fine by me, and I wouldn't exactly call this repressive because it insulates us from some idiot like Rupert Murdoch coming in and altering the political landscape in the entire country through a propaganda station masquerading as news.

And our news organizations do a far, far better job of covering the US than the American ones. You want to look for the main reason why 51% of the US populace just doesn't get it, look no further than the shallow "What was Britney thinking?" media.

Robert Sharp
11-06-2004, 07:19 PM
Ben, you are being just as dismissive and narrow-minded as you are accusing us of being. I am NOT a democrat. I voted Republican in every election this year except for the President. Just look at the list, then look at the history. Check what happened in Italy and Germany. Then see if there are similarities. If you don't see them, that's fine. I'm not going to say you are an idiot for not agreeing with me (actually, you are the one who is doing that, and without ANY arguments btw). But I will say you are an idiot if you don't at least think about it.

Bush won on "values" whatever that means...apparently, it means religion.

After 9/11 gas stations around here put up signs saying they were "American owned". That's nationalism (of the bad kind), racism, an intolerance for foreigners.

The war was sold to us as a need to meet an imminent threat to our country (that was just bullshit, and would have been even if Saddam DID have a connection to terrorism).

Those who disagree with said war are labelled traitors.

The Patriot Act is part of this illegal combatant idea, which is scary as HELL. If they think you are a combatant, they can lock you up without due process. They'll keep extending that one...watch and see.

Now, I am not saying it is an intentional fascist coup (although I guess it could be). I am saying these are the early signs of fascism. What stops fascism is being aware of these signs and making sure they don't go to far. What aids fascism is ignoring it, or worse, buying into it. Fascism is almost never sold AS fascism. countries seldom turn themselves over to totalitarianism willingly.

forgeforsaken
11-06-2004, 07:33 PM
I don't recall saying Bush is the same as Hitler, please don't put words in my mouth. Germany wasn't the only Fascist state, and in fact some would argue (and I think correctly) that Nazism is a form of Fascism but not all Fascism is Nazism.

Ben
11-06-2004, 08:47 PM
I'm so tired of this shit. You guys believe whatever the hell you want, at this point it's like talking to Jason's hypothetical homeless person. You are all absolutely batshit insane. Maybe in a few weeks you'll calm down and start acting reasonable.

Canada's government is bravely protecting it's citizens from hurtful thoughts, but uh, America is brutally oppressing people. That's the ticket.


I'm being dismissive because you've got nothing besides that last weapon of Internet argument, the Nazi card.

Well, I'm leaving it in your hands. You guys are in charge of stopping George Bush from implementing the 4th Reich. I guess we already remilitarized the Rheinland...

forgeforsaken
11-06-2004, 09:37 PM
Ben I think you're the only one all in a huff here.

You should at least read Henry Wallace's speach, he was a US Vice President after all.

Ben
11-06-2004, 10:23 PM
Yes, I'm clearly the unreasonable one. You guys think Bill O'Reilly is just a hop skip and jump away from Goebbels, and I'm the fucking unreasonable one.

You guys ought to think about this for just one second. I expect this crap from Midnight, but those of you with triple digit IQs shouldn't be making yourselves look ridiculous.


This forum is going off the deep end fast, and you guys need to engage in a bit of reflection about why. Not every left leaning blog is worth reading and reposting. How is it that you guys are able to figure out that right wing talking points are full of shit without ever making that logical leap to left wing talking points also being full of shit? Did the thought never cross your minds? Are you that blinded by partisan hate?


The problem is the one you guys always complain about. I'll be like: "What's a single element of fascism shown by the Bush adminstration that hasn't been found in previous adminstrations?", and you'll claim... rampant cronyism, and I'll ask for evidence, and you'll yell Enron for 15 posts without ever providing any actual evidence, and we'll start over again.

You all loved that reality based community line, how about returning to it?

Jason McCullough
11-06-2004, 10:25 PM
Not as strident as Ben, but you are being a little silly.

Give it another 10 years (dives).

Brian Koontz
11-07-2004, 09:10 PM
http://www.angryflower.com/wackya.gif

Euri
11-07-2004, 09:55 PM
Yes, I'm clearly the unreasonable one. You guys think Bill O'Reilly is just a hop skip and jump away from Goebbels, and I'm the fucking unreasonable one.

No, Bill O'Reilly is a sympton of a sick culture that is a hop skip and jump away from outright fascism.

quatoria
11-09-2004, 05:27 AM
And our news organizations do a far, far better job of covering the US than the American ones. You want to look for the main reason why 51% of the US populace just doesn't get it, look no further than the shallow "What was Britney thinking?" media.

Sadly true. When my cable carrier was Time Warner, I was able to watch Newsworld International, and found it a superior enough news source that I used it for all my non-local news needs. It was especially nice to have access to the reports from major foreign countries every morning.

Brian Rucker
11-09-2004, 05:31 AM
The hilarious part? There's no way mainstream media is going to pick up that story and run with it. Hi, we made the voters stupid. First off that admits they've done an idiotic job of things. Then it accuses their viewers of being clueless. Lastly, it implies The President got reelected by a nation of dupes and dunces. No more inside information for you Mr. Reporterman. Editor to reporter, "No story, no job."

Prodigy
11-09-2004, 06:42 AM
I'm so tired of this shit. You guys believe whatever the hell you want, at this point it's like talking to Jason's hypothetical homeless person. You are all absolutely batshit insane. Maybe in a few weeks you'll calm down and start acting reasonable.

It's weird to see how your refuse even the smallest remote possibility of a debate by beeing 100% dismissive of everyone's arguments.

Jason McCullough
11-09-2004, 10:24 AM
Jason's hypothetical homeless person

Eh? That example last week was real.