2004 World Series

[steve]

Okay, I think it's safe to say the two best teams are in the World Series this year.

So St. Louis vs. Boston

Predictions?

Red Sox in 6.

[sluggo]

Okay, I think it's safe to say the two best teams are in the World Series this year.
C'mon, would you really have said that after ALCS game 3? :)

I'd say the best team in '04 -- the Cards -- made the Series. The Sox and the 'Stros were arguably the two best teams in the second half of the season, but there's a reason they ended up as wild cards.

Edit: St. Louis in 6. The Curse Lives.

[steve]

C'mon, would you really have said that after ALCS game 3? :)
Absolutely. The Yankees were beating a better team. Hell, the Red Sox were favored. They scored more runs and gave up fewer runs than the Yankees; in most cases, that means more wins.

Anyway, I think the Red Sox will expose the weak St. Louis starting pitching, much like they did to the Yankees (eventually). Suppan didn't even make the Red Sox postseason roster last year when they rented him from the Pirates.

The biggest problem for the Sox will be the possibility of a huge letdown. Saturday could be ugly. But I think the American League having the home field advantage will actually matter--a lot--because Fenway is such a weird stadium. Edmonds has a lot of experience in CF in Fenway, but RF and LF are really hard, and could lead to some issues for the Cardinals.

The murderer's row of the Cardinals, though, will be tough to overcome. Crikey, Walker-Pujols-Rolen-Edmonds... that's just not fair, and I'd take that group any day of the week over Jeter, Rodriguez, Sheffield, and Matsui.

I think the series will also be determined by the guy that was invisible in the LCS: Manny Ramirez. It's highly unlikely he'll have 0 RBI again. He goes in mini slumps, but usually breaks out in serious fashion. It will also be interesting to see if the lefties out of the St. Louis pen can contain David Ortiz--that's another key matchup.

I have a weird feeling about someone like Reggie Sanders coming up big. Or Bill Mueller.

Lowe is such a headcase, but he has to feel like he did 2 years ago when he was arguably the best pitcher on the Sox. No one has to enjoy hitting Wakefield's knuckler, and the Sox can make sure that Schilling is ready to go in games 2 and 6, both at Fenway. (So he doesn't have to hit and run... they are doing 2-3-2, right?)

Anyway, it seems like a good matchup, which probably means it'll be 4-0.

[mtkafka]

No. The Cubs are the best team. :roll: The just don't have there shit together.

DAMN YOU!

BTW GO RED SOX!

Cardinal fans are now using the "Who's your daddy?" chant.

etc

[sluggo]

Someone needs to get a clip of tonight's Daily Show piece on the Boston reaction following Game 7. It's classic.

("everyone is cautiously optimistic. We think we've got the Yankees right where we want them, but we could still blow it.")

[triggercut]

Cardinal fans are now using the "Who's your daddy?" chant.

etc

Um, no. We're not.

Anyway, I think the biggest thing will be that the Cardinals may have a couple of secret pitching weapons up their sleeves.

Chris Carpenter stretched a nerve in his biceps about 6 weeks ago. It's a strange injury, one that gradually and slowly recovers without surgery, but one that takes a long time to feel better...and yet, according to doctors,when it finally gets "right", it's like hitting a light switch--suddenly the arm is back to normal.

Monday morning, Carpy woke up and found that he had fulll extension and motion with his pitching arm, without pain. Tuesday he threw a bullpen session with a man in the box in front of Cardinal doctors and a radar gun. According to all, he looked great. He threw again today, and was pronounced healthy. If Carp can go, that gives the Cards a huge psychological lift.

Look for either David Flores (a lefty) or Al Reyes (a righty) to replace Steve Kline from the bullpen as well.

I think Burger can handle Papi if he gets the chance. The big thing to me is how the Cardinal starters will fare against Johnny Damon and Ortiz. Those are two tough lefties right up front. Native St. Louisan Bill Mueller always killed the Cardinals when he was a Giant, too. He'll be a factor.

Forget Reg-Gie. For the Cards on offense, the factors are easy to spot. #5, #27, and Jimmy EyelinerHollywoodHalfshirtBallgame need to keep raking, or this ends soon.

The Cardinals have a decent book on Schilling, but Pedro, Wake, and Lowe will give 'em fits.

Sox in 6, much as I hate to say it.

[triggercut]

Oh, and one other thing....

http://msn.foxsports.com/id/3100152_7_2.jpg

[Mark Asher]

Edmonds has to be right up there with the greatest centerfielders of all time. The guy just amazes. He makes incredible catches. The one he made tonight in game 7 has to be the equal of the Willie Mays catch of the Vic Wertz shot in the '54 series. I think Edmonds catch was even better.

As to the World Series, it's impossible to predict. In a short series too many bats can go cold and too many stoppers can have a bad game. This looks to be a pretty evenly matched series. I'd give a slight edge to the Cards on offense and defense and a slightly larger edge to the Sox on pitching. And Boston has the homefield advantage edge too. Damn Clemens in the All-Star game!

[steve]

There have been tons of catches better than the one Mays made, but it will go down as the best because, well, it was in a World Series, and more importantly, it was the first of its kind. No one, up to that point, had seen a play like that (that I'm aware of) because, well, there wasn't a player like Mays up to that point. At least in MLB.

Anyway, the catch he made as an Angel, when he did a dive directly facing away from home, is by far the best catch I've ever seen. Some of the wall-crawling antics from Hunter and Griffey and Lofton (and Edmonds) are impressive, but yeesh, going flat out away from home and diving... similar to last night, but directly behind you. That's just insane.

The only thing about Carpenter is, I believe, it was a similar injury to the one suffered by Brad Penny of the Dodgers. He was "fine" one day, went out to pitch, then wasn't so fine. He'd be a HUGE risk to add to the roster, because if he can't pitch, they can't replace him.

[graller]

I give the edge on offense to the Sox although what they do with Ortiz during the NL games will be interesting. I give the edge on D to the Cardinals. I think the Sox pitching is better, both starters and pen but I give an edge back to the Cardinals at manager. Sox have the deeper bench.

Sox in 7 with each team taking one in the other's park

[Jason Levine]

There have been tons of catches better than the one Mays made, but it will go down as the best because, well, it was in a World Series, and more importantly, it was the first of its kind. No one, up to that point, had seen a play like that (that I'm aware of) because, well, there wasn't a player like Mays up to that point. At least in MLB.



The best catch I have ever seen was Ron Swoboda's in the 1969 World Series. A diving catch of a low line drive to right. All the more remarkable because he really wasn't good defensive outfielder. Anyway, what makes the Willie May's play so remarkable wasn't just the catch, it was the turn and throw immediately afterward.

[steve]

I give the edge on offense to the Sox although what they do with Ortiz during the NL games will be interesting. I give the edge on D to the Cardinals. I think the Sox pitching is better, both starters and pen but I give an edge back to the Cardinals at manager. Sox have the deeper bench.
Ortiz will play 1B, which he did probably 20-30 games this season. If he gets to a ball, he'll catch it. But as the ESPN scouting says, some players look faster than they are; Ortiz isn't one of them. (Yet he tries a stolen base in the LCS...)

If it's a lefty starter, Millar will play RF (which creates a defensive black hole out there). With a righty, Nixon will play. I'd expect a good series from Trot--he usually comes up big in big games.

The Cardinals definitely have an edge in D; not even close.

LaRussa will definitely manage... more. Sox definitely have the bench advantage.

Who will the Cardinals DH? Sanders, and play someone else in left?

[Mark Asher]

Good question about the DH. It's either Sanders or Mabry, probably Sanders as DH and Mabry in the outfield though Sanders isn't a bad outfielder. Against a lefthander they might sit Mabry and use someone like Cedeno as the DH.

I think Sanders has started every game in the playoffs. In the regular season they platooned him a lot more. Guess LaRussa wants his experience out there in the post-season.

[triggercut]

The only thing about Carpenter is, I believe, it was a similar injury to the one suffered by Brad Penny of the Dodgers. He was "fine" one day, went out to pitch, then wasn't so fine. He'd be a HUGE risk to add to the roster, because if he can't pitch, they can't replace him.

Ah, not so fast.

If Carp is go (in place of Kline), that makes the likely starters for WS games Williams, Carp, MoHRis, and Suppan.

That puts the bullpen at Izzy, Tavarez, Burger, Calero, and Eldred....

....and oh yeah. Marquis and Haren. Both of whom are starters.

There were plenty of us seamhead Cardinals fans imploring the team to give Marquis' start in the LCS to Haren. He is the real deal. If Carp can't pitch, Haren can, and Haren can deal some tabasco. He only got into 1 LCS game, and that was a token appearances.

If LaRussa wants another lefty, David Flores was lights out down the stretch. He's got some cheese, especially vs. lefties. Substitute Flores for Caulk Eldred in that case.

I guess what I'm saying is that LaRussa was already carrying Haren as an insurance policy in the LCS...no reason he and Marquis both can't be Carpy's insurance in the WS.

[triggercut]

Good question about the DH. It's either Sanders or Mabry, probably Sanders as DH and Mabry in the outfield though Sanders isn't a bad outfielder. Against a lefthander they might sit Mabry and use someone like Cedeno as the DH.

I think Sanders has started every game in the playoffs. In the regular season they platooned him a lot more. Guess LaRussa wants his experience out there in the post-season.

Mabes' arm is awful, especially compared to Sanders. Reggie's still got some range, too. You might even see So Taguchi (best range/arm of their potential leftfielders) in left and Sanders and Mabry platoon the DH.

[sluggo]

As the two teams battle 7-7 in the 7th, it occurs to me that I only want one thing out of this series: a Game 7 at Fenway.

Which would happen, fittingly enough, on Halloween.

[shift6]

SOX!

Was anyone else concerned after homeboy got that double right there in the top of the 9th with only one out? Phew!

[steve]

That was ugly.

[graller]

About what I expected actually....But as long as the SOX win 3 more I am HAPPY!!!

[DrCrypt]

Man, if the Sox win in a year when I can't realistically go home for the ensuing riot, I'll be pissed. I mean, there's already a riot death count from when we beat the Yankees in game 7. What are the professionals predicting? Sox win?

[steve]

Man, if the Sox win in a year when I can't realistically go home for the ensuing riot, I'll be pissed. I mean, there's already a riot death count from when we beat the Yankees in game 7. What are the professionals predicting? Sox win?
Most are saying Sox in 6 or 7.

[mtkafka]

One of the best reason to be a BoSox fan? They have the best fansite on the net for ANY professional team!

http://www.bostondirtdogs.com/

Though I like this Dodgers site as well.

http://www.dodgerblues.com/

For the Cubs.. well you get stuff from kids like this....

http://www.mlb.com/mlb/kids/website_contest/runnerup_b/index.html

So innocent to the doldrums of Cub misery.

etc

[steve]

There's also www.bambinoscurse.com

But if you want some really good Cubs news, try www.all-baseball.com/cubreporter/

All of the blogs from All Baseball are really good. If you like liberal politics with baseball, try Will Carrols blog there.

My new favorite geeky baseball site is www.hardballtimes.com

[hido]

Best Cubs writing on the net:

http://www.yellon.org/links.htm

[triggercut]

Pitching tonight: Matt MoHRis on three-days' rest. This might be the ugliest game ever pitched in the 100-year history of the World Series.

Prediction for tonight: Boston 14, St. Louis 5. For this Cardinal fan, call it a mercy killing. With untested and woeful Jason Marquis slated for a must-win game 3 in St. Louis against Pedro, this might be over real quick, series-wise.

Scott Rolen first-pitch swinging in the 8th with the bases loaded, one out, and Foulke on the ropes might be the biggest play of the series, frankly.

[steve]

Pitching tonight: Matt MoHRis on three-days' rest. This might be the ugliest game ever pitched in the 100-year history of the World Series.
He certainly didn't look good in the first. Not sharp at all. Why do people insist on using starters on three days rest?

And man, can those Red Sox wear out a starter or what?

Schilling looks okay, all things considered. Renteria had the right idea, but none of the following hitters have taken him quite as deep.

Scott Rolen first-pitch swinging in the 8th with the bases loaded, one out, and Foulke on the ropes might be the biggest play of the series, frankly.
Yeah, that looked like an extreme case of being overanxious. I can't imagine Rolen has seen Foulke that much; he should have been at least taking the first pitch.

[steve]

I think I spoke too soon about Schilling. Velocity is down this inning... 90MPH fastballs, not good.

[steve]

Memo to St. Louis: You guys should know this already, but DON'T THROW FASTBALLS TO ORLANDO CABRERA.

Seriously, the guy can't hit breaking stuff.

[sluggo]

I'd like to have a law passed that makes it legal to beat the living crap out of morons who jump into the camera shot whenever there's an interview in the stands. "haha, look at me, I'm on TV!"

Meanwhile, Edmonds just made a pretty impressive over-the-shoulder catch.

[steve]

I'd like to have a law passed that makes it legal to beat the living crap out of morons who jump into the camera shot whenever there's an interview in the stands. "haha, look at me, I'm on TV!"
No, there are worse people. The ones who get seats behind the plate and spend the entire game on the cel phone waving at people they're calling.

"Look, I'm on TV!"

Foulke is DA MAN.

[steve]

From ESPN: "The Red Sox have generated 17 runs with the steady drum beat of tough at-bats: The St. Louis pitchers have thrown 354 pitches so far in this series, and incredibly, the Red Sox have swung and missed only 18 times, with 60 foul balls."

Um, yikes.

[Lloyd Heilbrunn]

I'm glad they missed a pitching change to interview Tom Hanks and whoever that other guy was.........


Oh, I miss the days when a game was covered as a sporting event and not a promo for other shit! :roll:

[steve]

Oh, I miss the days when a game was covered as a sporting event and not a promo for other shit! :roll:
I did love the "Look at the people from the show on our network" bit, because the four people from That 70s Show looked like they'd rather have been anywhere else than that game. Either that or they all hated each other. Man, did they look unhappy.

[sluggo]

there are worse people. The ones who get seats behind the plate and spend the entire game on the cel phone waving at people they're calling. "Look, I'm on TV!"
Hehe. I put them all in the same category. They should all be dropped into one big Bag O' Jackholes (TM) and beaten with the Dumbass Stick.

I did love the "Look at the people from the show on our network" bit, because the four people from That 70s Show looked like they'd rather have been anywhere else than that game. Either that or they all hated each other. Man, did they look unhappy.
I saw that too. Mila Kunis in particular looked absolutely miserable. I'm just surprised we haven't been seeing the cast of the OC every 10 minutes.

[Dean]

Man, if the Sox win in a year when I can't realistically go home for the ensuing riot, I'll be pissed. I mean, there's already a riot death count from when we beat the Yankees in game 7. What are the professionals predicting? Sox win?

I'm doing some work at Emerson this week and there are signs up all over the common to boycott the Herald because they published pictures of the dead girl (presumably dying or dead, I don't know, I didn't see them and I don't particularly want to). Emerson had Friday off to mourn.

I still had to work. The show must go on.

That said, on Saturday night we walked out of the building into Boylston Place (an alley filled with restaurants and bars) and yelled, "What's the score?"

It had to have been like 50 people in unison shouting "8-7 Sox!"

[triggercut]

I fly out of DC at the before dawn on Tuesday to St. Louis. Have tickets for games 3, 4, and, (if necessary, although not likely) game 5.

At the very, very worst, I'll see my second favorite team make history--albeit against the team I love most dearly. Unless Suppan can figure some things out though, and unless Jim Edmonds can shake loose some hits, this series is all but over.

Still, it'll be good times in my hometown: Lion's Choice, toasted ravioli, Imo's pizza, Vintage Vinyl....can't hardly wait!

[Midnight Son]

Fox appears to be pimping everything but the actual games. I hate that.
I'd say the Sawx only need to win one in StL and can then clinch at home.

[Jason Levine]

I fly out of DC at the before dawn on Tuesday to St. Louis. Have tickets for games 3, 4, and, (if necessary, although not likely) game 5.



Considering, that the home team has won every Cardinals' post-season game so far this year, I wouldn't consider that game 5 unlikely just yet.

And before we pronounce the curse completely dead, remember that the Red Sox won the first two games of the 1986 World Series, on the road.

[Lloyd Heilbrunn]

So, does Schilling get stitches in his dice rolling wrist before the next ASL tourney??? 8)

[Union Carbide]

Remember that the Curse of the Bambino frequently dictates that the Sox lose in the most heartbreaking manner possible.

My prediction: Cards win the next 3, Boston wins game 6, then loses with two outs in the 9th due to a combination of bad umpiring, fan interference, and terrorist activities.

[sluggo]

So, the stage is set. Boston goes up 3-0.

I still think is all just a big setup to a Halloween Game 7. We'll see if that's still a possibility after tomorrow and Thursday. :)

[Union Carbide]

Yeah, I can't remember the last time a team went up 3-0 in a 7 game championship series and still managed to lose.













:lol:

[steve]

I still think is all just a big setup to a Halloween Game 7. We'll see if that's still a possibility after tomorrow and Thursday. :)
Of course then you're faced with this: "Now pitching for the Red Sox, Michael Meyers."

[Brian Koontz]

Of course then you're faced with this: "Now pitching for the Red Sox, Michael Meyers."

I hear he has a wicked cutter... it slashes down and to the left.

[SolomonGrundy]

My Red Sox exprience:

"Daddy they Lost!" my four year old cried.
"Well, yeah, that happens in sports." This was right after game 1 vs. the Evil Empire. I realized that my son isn't used to this. Unlike the rest of the long supffering nation, that grew up with buckner, game 7 of 75, that '78 heartbreak, and 42 years of not even sniffing a superbowl win (yeah 2 SB in that time, but we were going to beat the Bears or Farve in his prime with Bledsoe...come on) my son's experience has been, never seeing a patriots loss, at least one he can remember, and now Sox playoffs.
Is this the new generation of Boston fans? Optimistic? Not waiting for the other shoe to drop, like I was right after game 7 vs the Yanks- still staring at the TV, KNOWING that the Yankees were going to do something, some obscure rule like the Yanks have it in thier contract that they must be in the World Series or something. Not my son, he is the opposite. He knows Johnny and the boys are going to win. How? "They are our team Daddy. they will win, just like Brady."

On the other end of the life,I went to visit my grandma in the hospital. She is having kidney failure, but somehow is staying up for every game. First thing she said"how about my Sox?" My Sox. It is funny, but these guys are like family in our house. Our collective memory is based around great sport moments, 'Havelcheck stole the ball' 'Bucky fucking Dent' Petey 6 inning shutout in relief, Adam V and the snow bowl.
The rest of the older generation has passed on, but I have found myself thinking about them alot the past couple of weeks. I had my great grandmothers giant 27' TV that was more a piece of furnature than a TV that she bought to watch the Sox back in 78. I just got rid of it 2 years ago, only turned it on for playoff games, green picture and all.
Both my grandfather's were huge Sox fans, it was the sound track of my life on every saturday.

Well, for those that have passed, those of us that have suffered with you, and the young ones that are just discovering you, just win one more.

Of course we can always fall back on:

Wait til next year. Not forgetting that line just in case.
My son says it will be this year and next year.

[Merakon]

Nice post, SolomonGrundy.

I wish I was as optimistic as your son, but I have a strong suspicion that this series will be returning to Fenway. :)

[mtkafka]

Crazy... Red Sox are 6 outs away from the dream.

GO SOX GO!

etc

[Squirrel Killer]

Who would've thunk the Cards would've folded like a house of cards like they did?

[Alan Dunkin]

Looks like they spent themselves entirely against Houston and Boston just rolled all over them with the momentum from the NY series. A very impressive win, and if I ever hear any more nonsense about a curse or people not taking them seriously or some Bambino crap it'll be waaaayyy too soon.

--- Alan

[steve]

What is Red Sox nation going to do now?

[Merakon]

Celebrate! :D

[Rob O'Boston]

What is Red Sox nation going to do now?

Apparently honk their fucking horns outside my window for hours on end. Which is cool. GO SOX!!!

[Jason McCullough]

PERHAPS WE SHOULD DISCUSS THE POLITICAL IMPLICATIONS

[Allagash]

It's reallly freaky here in Boston. The moon turned red earlier tonight due to a lunar eclipse. Cars are honking, there's shouting & fireworks. Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria!

From boston.com: Pigs can fly, hell is frozen, the slipper finally fits, and Impossible Dreams really can come true.

And now I can trim my beard.

[steve]

I just had a few hundred people walk past my apartment here in Burlington screaming, "Yankees suck, Yankees suck."

[mtkafka]

Yay, so the Cubs (1908) and White Sox (1917) hold the retardo record for longest without a WS victory. KUDOS TO LOSERVILLE!

:cry:

BRING BACK JORDAN!

etc

[Kevin McGuire]

From boston.com: Pigs can fly, hell is frozen, the slipper finally fits, and Impossible Dreams really can come true.


Nice quote. I liked Tyler Kepner's bit in the NYT when the Red Sox beat the Yankees in the ALCS:
It was actually happening. The nerd was kissing the homecoming queen. Paper was beating scissors; scissors were beating rock. Charlie Brown was kicking the football. The Red Sox were beating the Yankees for the American League pennant.

Comm Ave is a sea of drunken, happy BU students, Brookline is mostly quiet, and there's a new constellation over Boston - all the news helicopters hovering over Fenway look like brand new stars, slowly drifting.

[Dean]

After watching the Sox win at the Sweetwater Cafe on Boylston, I was one of the screaming morons for a little while.

Then I walked to the middle of Boston Common, which was dark and deserted, and just stood there and listened to the entire city cheer.

[triggercut]

Grats Sox fans! What a team, eh?

In 1982, I was a teenaged punk sitting in a folding chair in the press box at Busch for all 4 home games. I'll never forget Engine 42 blowing a high fastball past Gorman Thomas to win it all. Glad the Sox fans got to feel that, finally, tonight.

As a Cardinal fan, I'm not even the least bit pissed. How can you be? Especially after game 1, the Sox just beat us in every phase of the game. We had no answers--not one. For a while I thought maybe Scott Rolen swinging at the first pitch he saw in game 1 with the bases loaded and score tied in the 7th was the play that turned the Series. It wasn't. I thought Soup running the bases like a drunken beer league softballer in game 3 was going to be the play that turned the Series. It wasn't.

Nope. Even if those plays had turned around for the Redbirds, they weren't going to win this. So...I don't feel like I did in '85, when we got fucking jobbed. I don't feel like I did when we lost in '87, helpless in the Homerdome without Jack The Ripper in the lineup.

The best team won. My team lost...but gave me one helluva great season of memories. The gratuitous drinking tonight in The Loop felt a lot more like an Irish wake than a funeral.

[Mark Asher]

Grats to the Sox. The Cards were flat for the Series and the Sox were dead on. They just ran into a buzzsaw. Losing that first game killed the Cards with Schilling and Pedro pitching the next two. Oh well, it was a great season for the Cards -- 105 wins and dramatic moments in the NL playoffs. Maybe they'll be back next year. Most of their studs are under contract. Only Renteria and Matheny of the everyday players will be free agents.

The worst thing about this game was Barry Bonds getting honored before the game started. I hate that guy! Get him out of my ballpark!

[Alan Dunkin]

Yeah really, shouldn't they be honoring Mark McAndro instead of Barry Balco?

--- Alan

[Midnight Son]

Awesome post season from the Sawx. Coming back from 0 - 3 against the fookin Yonkees! Sweeping the Cards and winning the World Series! It was a lot of fun to watch.

[Jason Levine]

What is Red Sox nation going to do now?

They should put up a statue of Theo Epstein outside of Fenway. Seriously. How about that guy? He was 12, 12!, when that ball rolled through Buckner's legs. Amazing.

As to what Red Sox nation will do emotionally. When Ohio State won the NCAA championship in 2002, it was the first time won of my teams had one a major championship since I was 13. It takes a few days to sink in. Then it just feels great. :)

Boston really is Titletown, USA today. Who would've thunk it?

[Toddy]

The worst thing about this game was Barry Bonds getting honored before the game started. I hate that guy! Get him out of my ballpark!

At least he didn't yell "Go baseball!" again...