Let's discuss today's Corporate Giveaway

[Midnight Son]

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/11/business/11CND-TAX.html?hp&ex=1097553600&en=3de4947a2f1bfd03&ei=5094&partner=homepage

The Senate today approved a bill handing out about $140 billion in corporate tax breaks.

The 633-page bill, which has already been passed by the House, passed the Senate today on a vote of 69 to 17. It is loaded with hundreds of provisions that provide benefits to a wide range of interests, including the General Electric Company, oil drillers, shipbuilders, cruise ship operators, importers of ceiling fans, corn farmers, tobacco farmers and even foreign gamblers.

Despite widespread criticism of the bill as a Christmas tree of special-interest provisions, the House passed it by a vote of 280 to 141 on Friday, and the Senate voted, 66 to 14, on Sunday to cut off a potential filibuster.

Happy joy.

[JeffL]

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/11/business/11CND-TAX.html?hp&ex=1097553600&en=3de4947a2f1bfd03&ei=5094&partner=homepage

The Senate today approved a bill handing out about $140 billion in corporate tax breaks.

The 633-page bill, which has already been passed by the House, passed the Senate today on a vote of 69 to 17. It is loaded with hundreds of provisions that provide benefits to a wide range of interests, including the General Electric Company, oil drillers, shipbuilders, cruise ship operators, importers of ceiling fans, corn farmers, tobacco farmers and even foreign gamblers.

Despite widespread criticism of the bill as a Christmas tree of special-interest provisions, the House passed it by a vote of 280 to 141 on Friday, and the Senate voted, 66 to 14, on Sunday to cut off a potential filibuster.

Happy joy.

Everybody should note that this was not a partisan, close vote. For all of the pretentions and showboating, our lawmakers all go along with this stuff.

[Midnight Son]

Of course you're right. I'm just hoping that we as a nation try to dial down the graft about 5% or so by kicking out the worst offenders.

[JeffL]

Of course you're right. I'm just hoping that we as a nation try to dial down the graft about 5% or so by kicking out the worst offenders.

Yeah, but people get so caught up in their partisan politics (both sides) that they lose sight of the fact that both sides are screwing us. Both sides are looking out for themselves and their own power and all that goes along with that, and they play us, the public, like puppets, with incredible disdain. They rely on us to jump down each others' throats and fight each other in our partisan ways, which we gladly do, and in being so interested and focused on telling the other side how crooked and evil they are that we fail to notice that "our" people are just as sleazy and power hungry, just in a way that fools/appeases their particular constituents.

I so thirst for a 3rd party or strong independant movement to knock the Dems and Republicans off their power thrones.

[John Many Jars]

Of course you're right. I'm just hoping that we as a nation try to dial down the graft about 5% or so by kicking out the worst offenders.

Yeah, but people get so caught up in their partisan politics (both sides) that they lose sight of the fact that both sides are screwing us. Both sides are looking out for themselves and their own power and all that goes along with that, and they play us, the public, like puppets, with incredible disdain. They rely on us to jump down each others' throats and fight each other in our partisan ways, which we gladly do, and in being so interested and focused on telling the other side how crooked and evil they are that we fail to notice that "our" people are just as sleazy and power hungry, just in a way that fools/appeases their particular constituents.

I so thirst for a 3rd party or strong independant movement to knock the Dems and Republicans off their power thrones.

Yeah, me too.

[Jason McCullough]

Of course you're right. I'm just hoping that we as a nation try to dial down the graft about 5% or so by kicking out the worst offenders.

Yeah, but people get so caught up in their partisan politics (both sides) that they lose sight of the fact that both sides are screwing us. Both sides are looking out for themselves and their own power and all that goes along with that, and they play us, the public, like puppets, with incredible disdain. They rely on us to jump down each others' throats and fight each other in our partisan ways, which we gladly do, and in being so interested and focused on telling the other side how crooked and evil they are that we fail to notice that "our" people are just as sleazy and power hungry, just in a way that fools/appeases their particular constituents.

I so thirst for a 3rd party or strong independant movement to knock the Dems and Republicans off their power thrones.

And then they'd become one of the two major parties and do it again. The GOP is really pushing the envelope this time, and it's disgusting, but some level of pork to lubricate politics is inevitable - the Engine of Democracy would freeze up without it.

[Jim Preston]

I so thirst for a 3rd party or strong independant movement to knock the Dems and Republicans off their power thrones.

I share your feeling on this, but there's a strong argument to be made for a two party system. First, the goal of having two parties is that each party will (in theory) protect the nation from the worst excesses of the other. A politician will be less inclined to screw over the other party because he knows that if his group is not in power then the other group definitely will be and his political chickens may come home to roost.

Second, within each party there is a moderating effect because the more radical fringes know that if they break off they will decrease both their chances as well as the chances of their more moderate bretheren. (Again, in theory.)

And finally, the problem with the political pork highlighted in this article is not the result of a two party system. It is the result, in my opinion of course, of unethical politicians and an atmosphere of political backscratching with little genuine leadership.

[quatoria]

A politician will be less inclined to screw over the other party because he knows that if his group is not in power then the other group definitely will be and his political chickens may come home to roost.

Is that really the case these days, however? Explain Tom DeLay. Explain the Texas Redistricting, in that context. Trying as hard as possible to not just screw over the other party, but to literally wipe it from existance. Furthermore, how does that explanation gel with the multitude of pundits who have spent the last three years making 'liberal' a dirty word, and selling millions of books while calling liberals traitors, communists, cowards, and "hate america-first wimps?"

How can that behavior be parsed in any way but to mean that the homeostasis envisioned as the two parties fight for dominance has completely broken down?

[Jim Preston]

Is that really the case these days, however?

No, I certainly don't think it's that way at all. This administration is the least bipartisan and the most nakedly self-interested that I've seen in my lifetime. This is an administration that is not even interested in the appearance of propriety or bipartisanship. Dick Armey's exile from the kingdom and subsequent treatment by Tom Delay is further proof of just how vicious things have become.

I don't think this cause of this was the two-party system and I don't think a multi-party system will be the solution, that's all.