Furious George

[Andrew Mayer]

Kerry had a bowl of Cajones for breakfast:

I was a little worried at one point, I thought the President was going to attack Charlie Gibson.

Bush's comback?

With a straight face he said he only had one position on Iraq. He must think we've been on another planet

That would be on the "third world", Mr. President.

[Jamie Madigan]

I missed the part where Bush apparently flipped out. I think I was yelling at the cat to get the hell off the kitchen table or something. I've got the debate on TiVo, though, so I may just have to find that part and watch it. Or just wait for it to show up on The Daily Show's highlights.

[Andrew Mayer]

Enjoy:

http://www.oliverwillis.com/stuff/bushflipsout.wmv

[shift6]

Course, he did catch Kerry in a lie. Uh, sorry, in a "poor choice of words".

[Euri]

Course, he did catch Kerry in a lie. Uh, sorry, in a "poor choice of words".

And what would that be?

Also, thanks for also pointing out Bush's lies. It's real non-partisan of you.

Oh.
Wait.
Nevermind then.

[BrewersDroop]

Course, he did catch Kerry in a lie. Uh, sorry, in a "poor choice of words".
And what would that be?.

"We're going to build alliances. We're not going to go unilaterally. We're not going to go alone like this president did."

[shift6]

Course, he did catch Kerry in a lie. Uh, sorry, in a "poor choice of words".
And what would that be?

Also, thanks for also pointing out Bush's lies. It's real non-partisan of you.

Oh.
Wait.
Nevermind then.
Hey, both of them are lying douchebag career politicians. You aren't going to find me disagreeing with you there. Besides which, this thread was about this particular video clip. You can't possibly expect every thread about politics to contain a complete citation of everything said before to be valid or non-partisan.

However, for this thread, I quote from Kerry right at the start of the clip: "...we're not gonna go alone like this President did". That's simply not true; simply stated, we did not go alone. Now, is there a clear argument that "that's not what he meant"? Yeah probably. But as in the other thread, Kerry simply chose his words poorly. To quote Jason: this isn't rocket science.

Kerry says a word wrong here and there. You're gonna have to get used to it.

[Anaxagoras]

Course, he did catch Kerry in a lie. Uh, sorry, in a "poor choice of words".
And what would that be?.

"We're going to build alliances. We're not going to go unilaterally. We're not going to go alone like this president did."

Mmm-hmm. Yes. And where's the lie? We did act unilaterally. The fact that Britain & Australia came along for the ride is hunky-dorey.... but they did so against the wishes of its people, and we still shouldered the vast majority of the cost, both in terms of dollars and manpower. What's more, in a true alliance, all the members of the alliance help decide policy of the alliance, to some extent or another. In this case, the US unilaterally (there's that word again) decided all the policy, invasion tactics, and pretty much everything else having to do with the war or post-war construction. We have made no effort to involve other countries in the decision making process about what to do now... in fact, it appears as if we're grasping ever harder onto the reins of control.

That's called unilateralism, aka going it alone.

[MikeSofaer]

That's called unilateralism, aka going it alone.

Not synonymous. Close, but the difference seems to matter. (see above)

[TomChick]

The point is that the United States would have invaded Iraq with or without the UN, France, Britain, Spain, Poland, or Fiji. We made the decision unilaterally and would have executed it unilaterally. That some of our allies were cowed into throwing in a token presence doesn't change that.

-Tom

[Andrew Mayer]

I love it. The president decides to go ballistic, and we parse the level of truth on whether what we did in Iraq rises to the official standard of "going it alone"?

Any way you slice it's way the hell closer than "Mission Accomplished" ever was...

More importantly; if this how he acts in a debate, how is he when a real crisis comes up? How does he behave when the real pressure is on?

Bush is obviously incapable of being a serious leader. We were just lucky that he decided to read a book on the morning of 9/11 instead of actually trying to do something.

[BooTx]

Now he's gone "ballistic"...

The comedic value of this board is off the charts sometimes.

[russellmz00]

so far each candidate made me and my mom laugh: kerry in the first (i made a mistake in talking about iraq, bush made a mistake in invading), bush in the second when he verbally ran over the moderator who was asking him a question. i was covering my face with my hands thinking 'wth is he doing?' when that happened.

[Aleck]

The point is that the United States would have invaded Iraq with or without the UN, France, Britain, Spain, Poland, or Fiji. We made the decision unilaterally and would have executed it unilaterally. That some of our allies were cowed into throwing in a token presence doesn't change that.

-Tom

Tom, that's so clearly not fair. The Republic of Palau was definitely at least as Gung Ho as we were. And they're still with us (http://www.un.org/webcast/ga/59/statements/palaeng040923.pdf), unlike those damn commie Poles, who are pulling out of Iraq.

Seriously, though, anyone who honestly thinks that the current effort in Iraq is multilateral in any meaningful sense is deluding themselves. We twisted every arm we could find, yet still could barely scare up enough troops from other nations to cover latrine duty while American soldiers attacked and died.

I'm not minimizing the contributions of some of the countries, but to think that this invasion could have or would have happened absent the US is ridiculous..

[chet]

Also Australia, Poland, and the UK have lessened involement over time to less than half they were during the invasion.

Chet

[quatoria]

Yes, I think it's definately fair to say that Poland's investment is trending towards less than half now. So is Spain's!

[Midnight Son]

The proverbial Dumb Polacks are smarter than Dubya. But we knew that.

[Tim Partlett]

As a Briton, I don't feel "denigrated" by Kerry saying that the US was acting on its own. We aren't stupid. We can see that our forces in Iraq are nothing but a token effort on the part of Blair to ass-kiss George Bush. This was a unilateral effort on the part of Bush, that some other leaders, in spite of popular public opinion against the war, joined in on, for whatever reasons I have yet to fathom. Do the people here who are arguing that this was a mulilateral effort, seriously believe that Bush would have not invaded Iraq if nobody had joined up to the "coalition of the willing"?

The ill-will generated by Bush's aggrogant policies will likely be felt by the next wave of elections across the world, where new leaders are voted in who reflect the anger felt by the people. I notice how Bush suggested that the audience ask Tony Blair if America had gone it alone, rather than imploring that they ask the British people. He's at least aware enough of world opinion to realise that would be a mistake.

[Derek Meister]

We twisted every arm we could find, yet still could barely scare up enough troops from other nations to cover latrine duty while American soldiers attacked and died.

Fun fact: Other than Britain, no other country in the "Coalition of the Willing" has enough people in country to even fill the number of 92S (Laundry and Textile Specialistslots (http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/arjobs/bl92.htm)) slots required by the size of the US forces there. :wink:

[Andrew Mayer]

America is finally noticing that the emperor is naked.

http://www.youforgotpoland.com/forget_about_it.jpg

http://www.youforgotpoland.com/forget_about_it.jpg

[steve]

The point is that the United States would have invaded Iraq with or without the UN, France, Britain, Spain, Poland, or Fiji. We made the decision unilaterally and would have executed it unilaterally. That some of our allies were cowed into throwing in a token presence doesn't change that.
Pshaw. That was a multilaterial coalition of the willing. Bush asked around, established a sort of "global test" for who would be willing to contribute... oh, wait.