The Splinter Cell strikes back thread (take that Metroid!!)

[Rob O'Boston]

I'm extremely curious if anyone here is playing this. I'm trying to make up my mind between getting Live with MA or Ghost Recon, or to skip the Live experience for now and play some SC.

[wumpus]

I wouldn't get Live! for MechAssault unless vanilla deathmatch (with sprinkles) is exciting to you. As for GR and UC, well, if you have a PC..

It's looking more and more like the "must have" games for Live! are the sports franchises-- NHL 2003 just came out and is Live! compatible, for example.

You can also download add-ons for games even if they're not fully "live!" compatible. This is true of Splinter Cell (new missions, etc) as well as a half-dozen other titles.

[Jim Preston]

I'm not trying to pimp a mag I used to work for, but...OXM this month has a demo of Splinter Cell (along with BloodRayne, TJ&E III, and others). If you're on the fence, buy the mag and check out the demo for yourself. I'm a huge stealth fan and I absolutely loved it. I've already got SC, but I want to finish Metroid first.

[wumpus]

I just got through the training, and I'm tremendously impressed with Splinter Cell. One little benchmark I use for games is, how much fun did I have in the training? Well, SC is shooting a perfect 10/10 so far. For me, the highlight was sound training room with the egg-carton style acoustic walls-- for obstacles, you've got hanging chains, a drop onto a metal walkway, and (of course) broken glass on the ground. The soundtrack was reduced to a heartbeat for this sequence, which was VERY cool.

Fantastic controls, with great (and amazingly varied) actions for Sam. It's the first game I've seen where you can actually jump off walls, Tony Hawk style, to reach higher ledges. It's also hands down the best lockpicking simulation yet-- you rotate the left analog stick and the vibration lets you know when you've hit a "pin". Wiggle enough and it releases, then repeat. That's representative of the detail the developers have put into every aspect of this game. The stealth elements are.. dare I say.. looking like they might actually rival, if not actually outstrip, Thief? It's incredibly solid.

Visually, it is outstanding; the light effects, in my opinion, are superior to what I saw in the leaked Doom 3 alpha.* Good luck doing these lighting effects on a GC, and god help the PS2.

And, as always, I can't say enough great things about a nice Dolby Digital setup for gaming. That goes double for this game, since noise can give you away as easily as being seen can. Hearing sounds convincingly pan around you to each individual speaker as you rotate the camera contributes greatly to immersion, plus having a big honkin' subwoofer makes booms go BOOM. As far as I'm concerned, this is one of the major reasons to play a hybrid PC/Xbox title like this one on the Xbox only.

As I play more of the game, I don't know if I'll get frustrated enough to drop this into the 8.5/10 range like Kasavin did (although, strangely, he was never frustrated in Metroid.. hmm), but I can tell you right now that you WILL want this game if you own an Xbox and have any interest whatsoever in stealth-type gameplay.

* Actually, I wasn't impressed with the alpha. The lighting had a lot of weirdo side effects that ripped it out of "ooh" territory and right back into antiseptic graphics card demo territory for me-- which is about what you would expect for a leaked alpha, I guess. I was worried that playing the alpha would reduce my enthusiasm for the game, and my fears were realized :(

[wumpus]

Interestingly, Kasavin's review (8.6) is the lowest reported score for this game to date:

http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/21880.asp

The gamespot user reviews are averaging to ~9.2 so far, for what that's worth. For comparison, Jedi Knight II Xbox got an 8.3, and Unreal Championship got an 8.5.

I'll know more as I play more, but man, this game has sho' nuff got the Bruce Leroy full body glow of a superstar title.

[GregB]

So far, I'm just not that impressed. I'll admit having a little trouble with the Metroid Controls but damn, I feel like I'm fighting the camera every step of the way in Splinter Cell. Maybe after a little more time playing, but I'm just not having all that much fun.

And Wumpus, concerning the graphics, what are you smoking? You're quick to jump all over the PS2 for resolution issues, but you can't tell me you're satisfied with the jaggy crap this game is pulling. It's bad. Really bad.

[runesword forger]

Interestingly, Kasavin's review (8.6) is the lowest reported score for this game to date:

http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/21880.asp

The gamespot user reviews are averaging to ~9.2 so far, for what that's worth. For comparison, Jedi Knight II Xbox got an 8.3, and Unreal Championship got an 8.5.

I'll know more as I play more, but man, this game has sho' nuff got the Bruce Leroy full body glow of a superstar title.

I think EGM gave Splinter Cell an 8.5.

It looks really cool. Is SC much better than other sneak around type shooters?

Admission of ignorance: Who the hell is Bruce Leroy?

[DaveC]

I am playing SC and it's the most fun I've had on my Xbox since Halo. It forces you to be stealthy and it's a nice change from run and gun. The whole presentation is also very cool. The graphics are slick and the sound is top notch.

[Anonymous]

That's right Dave C. SC was only made to be played on the Xbox. The PC version will suck. To everyone else. Get an xbox.

[Naked]

Admission of ignorance: Who the hell is Bruce Leroy?

Hero of the one and only Last Dragon (http://us.imdb.com/Title?0089461), perhaps the greatest Karate Kid/softcore blaxpoitation hybrid mystical martial arts hokum featuring a 9 foot tall villain named Sho'nuff to be released in 1985. Available now on TNT and home video.

Oh, and I'm enjoying what I've played on Splinter Cell (its currently 2nd on the "to be played after Vice City pile", right after Metroid). I've only really screwed around with the training and the OXM demo, but (framerate issues aside) its a damn good stealth game in the Thief (not Metal Gear Solid) mold.

[Anonymous]

And Wumpus, concerning the graphics, what are you smoking? You're quick to jump all over the PS2 for resolution issues, but you can't tell me you're satisfied with the jaggy crap this game is pulling. It's bad. Really bad.
Eh? It's still 640x480, which is pretty much the max resolution for a standard television. This will vary by screen size (I hear Asher plays on a 5" black and white screen ;)) but it's never going to look like an ultra-high-res 1280x1024 computer game. Some aliasing on a TV is expected, particularly if you have a quality large TV. My beef with PS2 is the *even worse* resolution than this; a lot of games use 640x240 on that platform due to the lack of video framebuffer memory.. the complete absence of mip-mapping compounds the problem.

I'll admit having a little trouble with the Metroid Controls but damn, I feel like I'm fighting the camera every step of the way in Splinter Cell. Maybe after a little more time playing, but I'm just not having all that much fun.
Did you go through the training? There are really only a few key moves you need to be good at. My game did come with a Prima mini-walkthrough of the first mission, which was helpful while I was learning what kinds of things I could and couldn't do.

On a more serious note, I did run into one of the frustrating things Greg was probably referring to. On mission 2, as soon as I shimmied across the ledge to the newly opened window, I kept triggering a "body found" alarm. Which was mystifying, because all the guys in the level to that point were knocked out and/or dead-- who is finding them? I checked the forums, and it seems that unless you have ALL the bodies in COMPLETE darkness-- eg, no big toes sticking out-- some alarms will trigger at certain points in the level no matter what you do. That's incredibly arbitrary and not intuitive, but at least now I know about it.

Finally.. have you guys tried throwing cans or bottles? Pick them up, hit X to equip, then right trigger to throw.

[ARogan]

That's right Dave C. SC was only made to be played on the Xbox. The PC version will suck. To everyone else. Get an xbox.

http://pc.ign.com/articles/377/377776p1.html

I'm waiting for the PC version. Go keyboard/mouse!

[Anonymous]

Wellll.. the analog control of movement is kind of important in this game, as the amount of noise you make is directly proportional to how fast you're going. I'm not sure the digital on/off of WASD is going to cut it.

Also, you won't be doing a lot of shooting, so the mouse isn't as critical as it would be in, say.. Serious Sam. This is a stealth game. One interesting design decision they made is to not let the player get ammo from dead bodies. That keeps you from going on regular shooting rampages. I almost ran out of bullets at the end of the first mission, in fact. This gently nudges you towards the stealthy elements of the game.. which is not a problem, since they're so well done and intuitive.

Not to ding NOLF2, but, by way of comparison.. even though the stealth elements in that game were much improved over NOLF, they don't even hold a candle to what's in SC. This game may be the first true heir to Thief.

[Thierry Nguyen]

Wellll.. the analog control of movement is kind of important in this game, as the amount of noise you make is directly proportional to how fast you're going. I'm not sure the digital on/off of WASD is going to cut it.

They actually have an interesting system in place to tackle that. It's actually easier to be stealthy in the PC version than the Xbox version.

[Anonymous]

I'm far from anti-PC, but these digital control concessions may take away from the game experience.

I'm guessing that there's a toggle-type key which switches you from "slow" to "medium" to "fast" movement modes? I think that's inferior to the intuitive "the more I move this stick, the faster my character moves" approach.

Also, the ultra-cool lockpicking mode (rotate the left analog stick until you feel it "click" on a pin, then jiggle it in that direction, then repeat for subsequent pins) is going to be a complete loss on the PC with keyboard/mouse.

Not to mention the whole Dolby Digital thing I keep harping on. I love my PC, but I don't have $2,000 worth of sound equipment hooked up to it. Sound plays a big role in this game.

Serious Sam and Unreal Championship are games that might be better on the PC. This one, better resolution issues aside, I'm not so sure..

[TomChick]

I almost ran out of bullets at the end of the first mission, in fact. This gently nudges you towards the stealthy elements of the game

Running out ammo is "gently nudging"? :)

That's like saying having no savegame during a level "gently nudges" you to be more careful.

-Tom

[Anonymous]

Well, I was fairly sloppy in the first level.. as I expect many people will be, since they're learning the many different ways you can resolve combat situations-- open that window and sneak in, or go through the front door guns blazing? blast the bigscreen TV and hide in the resulting darkness? grab a goon and hold him hostage in front of the second goon? throw an item to distract them then sneak by? climb that pole onto the roof? etcetera.

There were plenty of opportunities to sneak by people that I just blasted. Then I found myself with only two bullets left to take out a pesky security camera. Doh!

That said, you can pick up ammo from ammo boxes. However, this isn't one of those games where health kits and ammo are lying around the level willy-nilly.

Here's a little mini-review from a random ShackNews user.. he gives some more examples of specific things in the game that make it cool:
http://www.shacknews.com/ja.zz?id=6031978

[Rob O'Boston]

The only stealth game I've played is Metal Gear Solid, and that is what I envisioned SC being like. But Naked states above that this is more like Thief than MGS. Can someone explain the difference to a poor schmo who never played Thief?

[Erik]

Can someone explain the difference to a poor schmo who never
played Thief?

Unlike MGS, Splinter Cell isn't 80% overwrought, non-interactive cut scene.

The lock picking mechanic is just a gimmick that doesn't affect gameplay as far as I can tell (I'm still on the first level). It's a neat gimmick, though. I don't think the PC version would suffer much from its removal. For a nice unlocking system that's actually sort of puzzling and doesn't require a vibrating controller, check out my new favorite game Ratchet & Clank.

Analog speed selection, however, seems like it's gonna be a pretty serious loss for the PC version of Splinter Cell.

Like I said, I'm only on the first level, but so far I haven't seen much in the way of varying paths to each goal. You can either sneak by guards or subdue them, but the first level, at least, appears to have only only one physical route through it.

[Naked]

Can someone explain the difference to a poor schmo who never played Thief?

Well, the most obvious point to make would be that Thief focuses on the use of light and shadow, versus MGS' emphasis on cover and hiding. The real difference, however, lies in the enemy AI and puzzle design.

MGS is a strictured, rule based stealth game - enemies detect you at a visibly defined radius, remain curious for a set period of time, and then return to normal behavior as if nothing had happened. Consequently, each guard's behavior is utterly predictable, resulting in puzzle designs with a limited solution set.

Thief, on the other hand, is a little more open ended. Thief's guards behavior isn't nearly as strictly defined or predictable, which, when combined with the far less linear environment designs, results in a significantly more varied, and flexible, stealth gameplay experience.

Splinter Cell, while more linear in design than Thief, has that same sense of flexiblity in the guard's behavior...they can be unpredictable bastards, which ratchets up the tension significantly.

[TomChick]

For a nice unlocking system that's actually sort of puzzling and doesn't require a vibrating controller, check out my new favorite game Ratchet & Clank.

Hmm, the last time I checked out Erik's new favorite game, I ended up with a copy of Stretch Panic that effectively doomed any attempts to get my girlfriend interested in console gaming.

Actually, though, I guess I am going to have to get this Ramjet & Chink game. Is it better than Metroid Prime?

-Tom

[Erik]

Hmm, the last time I checked out Erik's new favorite game, I ended up with a copy of Stretch Panic that effectively doomed any attempts to get my girlfriend interested in console gaming.

Actually, though, I guess I am going to have to get this Ramjet & Chink game. Is it better than Metroid Prime?

I only liked Stretch Panic in theory, before I'd played it. I've actually played Ratchet & Clank. I like it more than Metroid Prime, which I've also played. A little.

[GregB]

Ok, color me frustrated. I can't get by the first freakin' level. I'm in some courtyard with a fountain. All the doors are unopenable (I guess my lockpicks only work on special doors). Some guy keeps looking out a second story window at me. I throw a can right at him and he appear to care. Someone remind me why this game is good again?

[Xaroc]

Ok, color me frustrated. I can't get by the first freakin' level. I'm in some courtyard with a fountain. All the doors are unopenable (I guess my lockpicks only work on special doors). Some guy keeps looking out a second story window at me. I throw a can right at him and he appear to care. Someone remind me why this game is good again?

SPOILER

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Over in the corner there is a tunnel hidden by some shrubs where you can find what you are looking for. Took me a while to find it also.

-- Xaroc

[Anonymous]

Hero of the one and only Last Dragon (http://us.imdb.com/Title?0089461), perhaps the greatest Karate Kid/softcore blaxpoitation hybrid mystical martial arts hokum featuring a 9 foot tall villain named Sho'nuff to be released in 1985. Available now on TNT and home video.

I AM the Shogun of Harlem!

The OXM demo made me happy to own an Xbox, the full game is under the Xmas tree, it's tough to be a gamer when you're in Xmas lockdown mode....

[GregB]

Ack! Thanks Xaroc.

[wumpus]

Man, this game is cool. The flexibility I referred to earlier isn't so much about how you travel through the levels; they're mostly linear, though they don't feel like it. The flexibility lies in how you approach combat.

For example. I just got to a section where you start with an elevator counting down, eg, impending arrival of soldiers. I did this about four different ways:

1) The most ballsy: back to the wall directly next to the elevator. They flow out from the elevator and don't see you.

2) The most acrobatic: wall jump, then get up to the light fixture. Hang out there and eventually one of the cards will perch right under you. Drop on him, knocking him out. The other guard is on the other side of the room and won't hear/see this

3) The most like Doom: blast 'em as they come out. You gotta go for headshots, though, and this may be more difficult than 1 or 2.

4) Vandalism. Shoot out the lights before they arrive, then maneuver as necessary to stay hidden.

The levels are fairly linear, but there is some flexibility. At the beginning of level 2, you can jump down to the ledges, or you can rappel down the chimney and through the vertical blind window. And once you get near the office in level 2 (right after you take the elevator up) you can either wait for the guard to come through and knock him out after he enters the keypad code, or.. take the ventilation route above the interior office deck and bypass the keypad doors entirely. I assume there's also a way to get the actual code, too, but I couldn't find it.

I also got to experiment with throwing stuff to distract guards. Works great if they're directly in front of where you need to be, eg, the kitchen window segment on level 2. The guard AI is generally very good; I've seen them do some interesting things.

There are so many neat little details in this game. When you're hanging from a ledge and you flip on the nightvision-- eg your hands aren't free- Sam forcefully snaps his head to get the goggles into place. You can shoot out the lit headlights on the parked car in the parking garage. The lightbulbs on the long cords in the garage stairway will actually move (and show correct shadows) if you brush against them with a body. Etc, etc.

There is just no way this game deserved a similar review score to Unreal Championship and Jedi Knight II, in my opinion. This is great, great stuff.

[wumpus]

Important gameplay note

I DID run into an incredibly annoying problem in level 2. Be absolutely, positively sure that you hide any bodies you've created prior to shimmying across to the kitchen window in level 2. And I mean hide them in deep, dark shadows in out of the way corners! If you inexplicably set off an alarm every time you shimmy halfway across, that's your problem.

I spent about a half hour dicking around with that.

[Dave Long]

There is just no way this game deserved a similar review score to Unreal Championship and Jedi Knight II, in my opinion. This is great, great stuff.

Why don't you wait until you've finished the game before saying that. Kasavin played through the whole game. You've played two missions.

--Dave

[Matthew Beaver]

I also got to experiment with throwing stuff to distract guards. Works great if they're directly in front of where you need to be, eg, the kitchen window segment on level 2. The guard AI is generally very good; I've seen them do some interesting things.


On the oil rig level (level 3) I was trying to use a bottle I found on the ground to distract two guards who were lined up on opposite sides of a door. Since I had just passed a checkpoint, I figured "What the hell" and chucked the bottle at one of the guards head. I missed the guard closest to me, but since I was basically in a straight line with them, the bottle sailed over his head and hit the farther guard squarely in the ear, shattering and dropping him like a sack of potatoes. I gave the closer guard a bullet in the braincase while he was turned away from me, tending to his buddy and in the process of calling for medical help. Neat.

BTW, I also like the throwing mechanic, which uses the analog functionality of the left trigger to flatten and hold the trajectory of a throw. Also, the one frag grenade I've found thus far (only on level four) has actually been sufficiently powerful to kill a group of enemies, instead of just taking out one and pissing off the rest of his pals. I tossed it into the break room by the office on level 2 and took out four guards. I hardly ever use grenades in 3d action games, as they're usually just too big a pain to be accurate with (a notable exception being Halo) but SC seems to have gotten them pretty right.

[TomChick]

Why don't you wait until you've finished the game before saying that.

Wumpus doesn't need to play more than an hour before he knows the skinny on a game.

Preternatural insight or premature evaluation? You make the call.

-Tom

[xahlt]

Premature evaluation... oh, that's gold baby!

[wumpus]

Sure, a formal review should only be presented after playing the complete game. This isn't a formal review.

That said, the 3-4 hours I've played of Splinter Cell have been clearly superior to any 3-4 hour period I spent in UT2003 or Jedi Knight II-- from beginning to end. Therefore, Splinter Cell > those games. I suppose there is an off chance the game could go off on some crazy tangent and generate enough ill will to negate whatever enjoyment I've had so far. That seems unlikely at this point.

But don't take my word for it.. visit gamerankings. While you're at it, you can marvel at the outlier that is Greg Kasavin's review. When 8.6 is the lowest score out of 8 reviews, you gotta be doing something right.

[Anonymous]

Sure, a formal review should only be presented after playing the complete game. This isn't a formal review.
No, you're criticizing a formal review, one based on a lot more information than you have. You yourself have said something along the lines of "Don't bother commenting unless you've played the game," so I think you should tell yourself to shut up when commenting on a "formal review" until you've reached the end of the game, that way you'll be on equal footing with Kasavin.

[wumpus]

No, you're criticizing a formal review, one based on a lot more information than you have.
Assuming the other 7 reviewers actually played the game to completion, Kasavin's review is still an outlier. Does that make you angry?

Don't bother commenting unless you've played the game
I have played the game. Splinter Cell was only released a few days ago, and I have other things that occupy my time, like, say.. going to work. Sadly, I'm not living la vida loca of a professional game reviewer where one plays games 24/7. So pardon me if I can't 100% the game in three days.

Anyway, I never said that people have to play to the bitter end in order to have an opinion about a game. Now, if I was commenting on a game I had never played-- yes. That's something you could criticize me for.

[Dave Long]

Now, if I was commenting on a game I had never played-- yes. That's something you could criticize me for.

So we can just stop this right here by noting your remarks on Super Mario Sunshine and Metroid Prime in the other thread then eh? Two games you haven't played yourself but feel comfortable making derogatory statements about.

--Dave

[wumpus]

Sure-- they're just opinions based on reviews I've read, both professional and otherwise. I'd still rather have an Xbox port of Super Monkey Ball 2 than Metroid Prime, but that's just me. Monkeys + Balls > Chick + Ball.*

* I cannot believe Tom didn't know that Samus is a woman. It's the worst-kept secret in console gaming. Don't make me link to hentai Metroid fan art.

[Mike Cathcart]

But don't take my word for it.. visit gamerankings. While you're at it, you can marvel at the outlier that is Greg Kasavin's review. When 8.6 is the lowest score out of 8 reviews, you gotta be doing something right.

Metroid Prime is their third highest ranking game. Ever. (http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/simpleratings.asp?rankings=y) Splinter Cell is only fifth. Guess that settles it.

[Rob O'Boston]

I can't believe either of those games are better than GTA3.

[Rob O'Boston]

And where is Halo? That thing is retarded.

[Ben Sones]

It ranks only by the final percentage, without taking into consideration the number of reviews that generated that percentage. For instance, Metroid Prime (96.4%) outrates Half-Life (96.3%), even though Metroid Prime's percentage is based on 8 reviews and Half-Life's is based on 52 reviews. That means that the list is going to naturally skew towards titles with fewer reviews, because even one outrageously high fan review for a just-released title will catapult it to the top of the list.

Of course, I'd argue that games with a higher sampling (i.e. more reviews) that retain their high rank are a lot more impressive.

[Desslock]

Could the rating systems at console sites be more embarrassing? Cripes, half the games get ratings between 95-100%, while the other half get ratings between 80%-95%. If you get a 95%, you're mediocre.

[Ben Sones]

That's another good point, Desslock. PC reviewers tend to be more critical, I think... on average. Of course there are plenty of PC sites that inflate their ratings just as much as the consolers do, but in general I think PC reviews tend to skew lower.

Look at Gamespot, for instance--it's not so unusual to see console titles get in the mid and even high (sometimes) 9 range. For PC titles, that almost never happens. I think No One Lives Forever 2 has the highest PC rating (deservedly so) I've seen recently: a 9.3. Metroid Prime, however, lands a 9.7. Don't get me wrong--Metroid Prime is a fine game, but it ain't THAT fine, and it ain't better than NOLF2. But there is no way that any PC game would get a rating that high on Gamespot. I don't think it's ever happened (I'm sure one of the Gamespot folks can chime in here if I'm mistaken).

[Luke M]

That's another good point, Desslock. PC reviewers tend to be more critical, I think... on average. Of course there are plenty of PC sites that inflate their ratings just as much as the consolers do, but in general I think PC reviews tend to skew lower.

Look at Gamespot, for instance--it's not so unusual to see console titles get in the mid and even high (sometimes) 9 range. For PC titles, that almost never happens. I think No One Lives Forever 2 has the highest PC rating (deservedly so) I've seen recently: a 9.3. Metroid Prime, however, lands a 9.7. Don't get me wrong--Metroid Prime is a fine game, but it ain't THAT fine, and it ain't better than NOLF2. But there is no way that any PC game would get a rating that high on Gamespot. I don't think it's ever happened (I'm sure one of the Gamespot folks can chime in here if I'm mistaken).

That highest score that Gamespot has ever given a PC game, at least to my knowledge, is a 9.5. And, IMO, Unreal Tournament _deserved_ that score.

[Met_K]

Unreal Tournament was also given a ten at Gamecenter, which I still say was a much, much better online gaming site. Highest rated game there, I believe.

[Desslock]

That highest score that Gamespot has ever given a PC game, at least to my knowledge, is a 9.5. And, IMO, Unreal Tournament _deserved_ that score.

The highest rating GameSpot PC has given is 9.6 to the original Diablo. I'm not sure if 10 games ever have received scores higher than 9.3, in the site's 8 year history. A rating over 9 pretty much used to mean "top 10 game of the year".

At videogame sites, including GameSpot VG, ratings are generally much higher -- everyone seems to rate console games on a very top-heavy scale, which is kinda goofy.

It seems nutty that people are unhappy with 78% ratings, let alone 87% -- all games who get 7+ should be more than worthwhile.

Stefan

[Anonymous]

Kasavin's review is still an outlier. Does that make you angry?
Your "reviews" of Age of Mythology, No One Lives Forever, etc., make you an "outlier." So what do we make of that? Your basic argument always boils down to, "Everyone who doesn't interpret every single game exactly like me is wrong."

Anyway, I never said that people have to play to the bitter end in order to have an opinion about a game.
Don't you see your own hypocrisy? You're one to say, "They obviously didn't play it as much as I did" when you have finished a game, but when you're the one with less info, you still criticize.

[wumpus]

Could the rating systems at console sites be more embarrassing?
Desslock, it sounds like you're also referring to the console arm of GameSpot in this statement.. yes? Because PS2 Tony Hawk 3 really is a perfect 10! And Tony Hawk 4..? That one goes to 11.

Your "reviews" of Age of Mythology, No One Lives Forever, etc., make you an "outlier."
Not unless giving all of the above positive reviews makes me an outlier. Personally, I think NOLF is critically overrated and NOLF2 is somewhat less critically overrated. I'm not a big fan of numeric ratings, but just as a point of comparison, I'm thinking borderline 9 (AoM), 7 (NOLF), and 8 (NOLF2) respectively on a 10 point scale. The difference between me and Tom Chick is that I'd also give WC3 a 9, even though it suffers from many of the same flaws as AoM.

Splinter Cell is one of the best games of the year, and EASILY one of the best Xbox titles to date. I'm not sure how Kasavin could play it and not realize that, but.. what the hell do I know. Maybe it's only two tenths of a point better than the mediocre Unreal Championship.

Don't you see your own hypocrisy? You're one to say, "They obviously didn't play it as much as I did" when you have finished a game, but when you're the one with less info, you still criticize.
No, I've never said that. What I did say is that people should at least play a game before commenting on it. Not that this has ever stopped me in the past, but it is a legitimate reason to criticize someone's opinion.

The only time "you didn't play enough" is relevant is in a game like, say, Jedi Knight II, in which the beginning of the game is much weaker than the rest-- eg, there's some kind of transition where the gameplay changes significantly. In contrast, I don't think you'd be too far off base if you played 3 hours of Serious Sam and based your entire opinion of the game on those three hours of gameplay.

[Luke M]

That highest score that Gamespot has ever given a PC game, at least to my knowledge, is a 9.5. And, IMO, Unreal Tournament _deserved_ that score.

The highest rating GameSpot PC has given is 9.6 to the original Diablo. I'm not sure if 10 games ever have received scores higher than 9.3, in the site's 8 year history. A rating over 9 pretty much used to mean "top 10 game of the year".

Oh yah, that's right. Thanks for the correction.



At videogame sites, including GameSpot VG, ratings are generally much higher -- everyone seems to rate console games on a very top-heavy scale, which is kinda goofy.

It seems nutty that people are unhappy with 78% ratings, let alone 87% -- all games who get 7+ should be more than worthwhile.

Stefan

Yah, this doesn't make much sense when you think about, but, at least for me, it just feels right for console games to be rated like this. It just seems right for Zelda 64, Tony Hawk 3, etc. to get perfect 10s and PC games to top out at low to mid 9s...maybe I thinks this because I was raised on Gamespot rating scale.

[Luke M]

Don't you see your own hypocrisy? You're one to say, "They obviously didn't play it as much as I did" when you have finished a game, but when you're the one with less info, you still criticize.
No, I've never said that. What I did say is that people should at least play a game before commenting on it. Not that this has ever stopped me in the past, but it is a legitimate reason to criticize someone's opinion.

The only time "you didn't play enough" is relevant is in a game like, say, Jedi Knight II, in which the beginning of the game is much weaker than the rest-- eg, there's some kind of transition where the gameplay changes significantly. In contrast, I don't think you'd be too far off base if you played 3 hours of Serious Sam and based your entire opinion of the game on those three hours of gameplay.

Of course, "you didn't play enough" is also quite relevant when a game that you don't complete changes quite a bit after the point you stopped playing at. What if the final level/boss battle, etc. sucks (last boss in Serious Sam 2 was a bit limp, IMO)? You wouldn't know about it; you wouldn't have the right to comment on it.

[mtkafka]

I'm waiting for the pc version. No reason to get xbox yet. Halo is coming to pc eventually as well. I dont need xbox live. Xbox can bite me (until it gets a game ala Vice City or the likes).

etc

[Jason Becker]

"At videogame sites, including GameSpot VG, ratings are generally much higher -- everyone seems to rate console games on a very top-heavy scale, which is kinda goofy. "

Console fans may not like this opinion but IMO it seems like a by product of the fighting about which console is the "best". Hence I think all the specialized Xbox,GC, and PS2 sites skew their ratings higher. Especially for the platforms exclusives to show "See our platform has the best games".

[wumpus]

Xbox can bite me (until it gets a game ala Vice City or the likes).

Then, by your own logic, you've already wasted your money: GTA3 was available on the PC, and Vice doesn't add much more to the formula.

My copy of Vice sits gathering dust. I filled up all 8 save blocks, and felt no need to go back to it; I can wait for the PC version.

[Kevin Grey]

Not unless giving all of the above positive reviews makes me an outlier. Personally, I think NOLF is critically overrated and NOLF2 is somewhat less critically overrated. I'm not a big fan of numeric ratings, but just as a point of comparison, I'm thinking borderline 9 (AoM), 7 (NOLF), and 8 (NOLF2) respectively on a 10 point scale.

Gamespot gave Splinter Cell an 8.6 which is certainly very positive. By your own reasoning, your views of AOM and NOLF are not outliers since you agree they are good games, yet Gamespot's positive review of SC is?

[wumpus]

Gamespot gave Splinter Cell an 8.6 which is certainly very positive.
Then they should give Halo an 8.6 as well. That's "positive", right? SC is absolutely one of the best games on the Xbox platform; the score should be commensurate with that standing.

In other news, Kasavin's rating is still the lowest score out of 10 reviews on GameRankings.

[Mike Cathcart]

In other news, Kasavin's rating is still the lowest score out of 10 reviews on GameRankings.

Also, the Wavebird controller (27) outranks Metal Gear Solid (28 ).

Edit: Damn smileys

[Anonymous]

Hmmmmm....Gamespy calls SC 'The best game on the X-Box.Period'.Hmmmmmm.......I may have to pick this one up....

[Xaroc]

Hmmmmm....Gamespy calls SC 'The best game on the X-Box.Period'.Hmmmmmm.......I may have to pick this one up....

It is a damned good game. The lighting effects have to be seen to be believed. The lighting just looks right. And the gameplay is very good. The amount of ways you can get around guards is impressive from distractions to brute force to sneaking up and grabbing them and knocking them out. There are even a few other ways to take out guards as I have found out after wasting my last two rubber bullets on a foolish target earlier in a level. I will say this game will be better on the Xbox than PC because of the analog move control and the lack of emphasis on fast reaction shooting (at least to the point I am about 4 missions in).

-- Xaroc

[Naked]

Having finally wrapped up Vice City, Splinter Cell is tied with Metroid in the "what to play next" file, so I've been screwing around with the both of 'em. Not sure which direction I'm leaning in yet, but I have to say, from playing the first two levels of SC, it's a damn good game...the controls, the visuals (real light! fire distortion!), the sound, the general sense of thiefy skulkingness - its all pretty damn awesome!

[Aleck]

My copy of Vice sits gathering dust. I filled up all 8 save blocks, and felt no need to go back to it; I can wait for the PC version.

Uh, I didn't think there was going to be a PC version -- I thought Sony locked up GTA as a PS2 exclusive through 2004 or 2005?

Man, you guys are going to get me in serious trouble with my fiance. After reading all the glowing reviews, I want to go get Splinter Cell, but she'll kill me if a new Xbox game shows up while I'm still looking for a job!

ASJunk

[Anonymous]

Uh, I didn't think there was going to be a PC version -- I thought Sony locked up GTA as a PS2 exclusive through 2004 or 2005?
The PC isn't considered competition in the console world. When they say "exclusive", they mean exclusive to consoles only.

[Aleck]

Uh, I didn't think there was going to be a PC version -- I thought Sony locked up GTA as a PS2 exclusive through 2004 or 2005?
The PC isn't considered competition in the console world. When they say "exclusive", they mean exclusive to consoles only.

Many thanks for the clarification! I guess that's good news, for those of us who'd love to give Vice City a whirl. Anyone know when/if a PC version would be released?

(and my fiance is going to *kill* me when the UPS guy arrives with a box from EBGames....)

ASJunk

[Mike Cathcart]

Probably May, since GTAIII came out about the same time last year and was released for the PC in May.