Zell Miller

[Rotor]

WAS AWESOME!!!!!!

[steve]

He's a publicity whore. If anyone really hated their party as much as he claims to, he'd do the honorable thing and switch, or go independent.

Instead, he pulls a stunt like this, not to shame the Democrats or prop up the Republicans, but to promote Zell Miller.

[quatoria]

Andrew Sullivan on Miller:

Zell Miller's address will, I think, go down as a critical moment in this campaign, and maybe in the history of the Republican party. I kept thinking of the contrast with the Democrats' keynote speaker, Barack Obama, a post-racial, smiling, expansive young American, speaking about national unity and uplift. Then you see Zell Miller, his face rigid with anger, his eyes blazing with years of frustration as his Dixiecrat vision became slowly eclipsed among the Democrats. Remember who this man is: once a proud supporter of racial segregation, a man who lambasted LBJ for selling his soul to the negroes. His speech tonight was in this vein, a classic Dixiecrat speech, jammed with bald lies, straw men, and hateful rhetoric. As an immigrant to this country and as someone who has been to many Southern states and enjoyed astonishing hospitality and warmth and sophistication, I long dismissed some of the Northern stereotypes about the South. But Miller did his best to revive them. The man's speech was not merely crude; it added whole universes to the word crude.

In fact, here's Sullivan's documentation of lie after lie after lie from Miller's speech. See? Not just *accusing* someone of lying, but *documenting* it, as well.

http://www.andrewsullivan.com/index.php?dish_inc=archives/2004_08_29_dish_archive.html#109409893313020605

[steve]

And Miller was all lovey-dovey (http://miller.senate.gov/speeches/030101jjdinner.htm)with Kerry three years ago.

My job tonight is an easy one: to present to you one of this nation's authentic heroes, one of this party's best-known and greatest leaders – and a good friend.

[Brian Rucker]

Zell goes wild

Maybe Zell Miller was just strung too tight following his wild-eyed attack on John Kerry Wednesday night. But following his primetime convention address he made the rounds on the cable TV circuit and stole the show -- and not in a good way. Miller’s speech was so over-the-top (he essentially questioned Kerry’s loyalty to America), it prompted mild-mannered talking head David Gergen to compare Miller to racist demagogue Lester Maddox, while Time’s Joe Klein had to pick his jaw up off the ground before he could analyze it. But Miller's post-speech cable performance was even more jaw-dropping, as he first badly fumbled questions from CNN anchors, then lost it with "Hardball's" Chris Matthews, repeatedly challenging the MSNBC host to a duel and telling him to "shut up."

On CNN and came under respectful but close questioning from Wolf Blitzer, Judy Woodruff and Jeff Greenfield, who pressed the wayward Democrat about why he mocked Kerry for using the phrase "occupiers" when describing U.S. troops in Iraq (Miller prefers "liberators"), when President Bush has himself used the same phrase for the same U.S. troops. Miller clearly had no idea that was the case and passed on giving a response. He was also asked why just three years ago he had introduced Kerry in Georgia as an American hero who had worked hard for our nation’s security (the speech is still up on Miller's Web site.) Miller suggested he was new to the Senate at the time and basically didn’t know what he was talking about.
http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room//index.html

Not exactly an Obama - my thoughts as well. I wish the Republicans would take Miller off our hands. He's certainly the kind of rolemodel they go for.

[John Many Jars]

A duel? He challenged him to a DUEL? Really?

That's the greatest thing since Admiral Stockdale announced that his hearing aid was off.

[quatoria]

I'm still kind of staggered by Sullivan's statement that he "watched a democrat at a GOP convention convince [him] that [he] could never be a Republican."

[Euri]

Do the Republicans (or anyone, really) have a site with links to all their speeches? I missed the RNC last night and want to see this speech.

[Jason McCullough]

The Democrats put up a concilitator, success story, moderate, and all-around nice guy for their keynote.

The Republicans put up this:

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20040902/capt.rncc12309020210.cvn_keynote_miller_rncc123.jp g

[chet]

Why are the democrats so angry? Just crazy hot heads....

Wasn't anger a sign of desperation just a few months ago???

[Case]

Hmm....

There's this:

http://www.buzzflash.com/analysis/04/09/images/02zell.jpg

And then there's this:

http://www.buzzflash.com/analysis/04/09/images/02emperorzell350.jpg

Hmm....

(From Buzzflash.com)

[Oppressor]

When challenged as to whether he truly believed John Kerry intended to defend the United States with spitballs, Give 'em Zell Miller responded incoherently, ending in:

"Get out of my face! I wish we lived in the days where you could challenge a person to a duel."

What a fucking nutcase... Just like the republicans that like him...

[quatoria]

Rotor: You were a fan of Miller's performance, so the ball is in your court. Does it seem rational to you to respond to a fairly polite questioning by a member of the press with a fervent wish that you lived in an age of duels, so you could kill them?

[Midnight Son]

He is one stoopid white ass cracker. A credit to Georgia, in other words.

[Duality]

Do the Republicans (or anyone, really) have a site with links to all their speeches? I missed the RNC last night and want to see this speech.
One neat thing I have found is that Time Warner, at least in my area, archives the major convention speeches. They had the DNC ones up for a while afterward, and are now storing the RNC speeches on their Video on Demand service.

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20040902/capt.rncc12309020210.cvn_keynote_miller_rncc123.jp g
On a mountain of skulls, in a castle of pain, I sat on a throne of blood! What was will be! What is will be no more! Now is the season of evil! (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097428/)

[Anders Hallin]

It's all on http://www.c-span.org/ baby.

[Oppressor]

And don't forget, according to Sheri Drew, who offered the morning prayer on 8/31, if you support gay marriage, you're just like the people who supported Hitler. I think it's great that we get such clear, crisp position statements from the RNC. John Kerry could learn a thing or two from them on the subject of standing out.

[Rotor]

Rotor: You were a fan of Miller's performance, so the ball is in your court. Does it seem rational to you to respond to a fairly polite questioning by a member of the press with a fervent wish that you lived in an age of duels, so you could kill them? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


"fairly polite questioning by a member of the press"

I just spewed my drink all over my keyboard!

Stop it you're killing me :lol: :lol:

There isn't ONE rational, sane, even keeled living human on this earth that would call Chris "Spitball" Mathews fairly polite.....

[quatoria]

So, is that a veiled way of saying you agree that threatening to kill someone is a rational way to respond to hard questioning? :lol: You and Bill O'Reilly both, if so.

[Oppressor]

So, is that a veiled way of saying you agree that threatening to kill someone is a rational way to respond to hard questioning? :lol: You and Bill O'Reilly both, if so.

Whoa whoa whoa Zell didn't actually threaten to kill Chris Matthews - technically, Chris Matthews could win the duel and do us all a favor...

And Rotor, wasn't it Zig Zag Zell, grand poobah of flip-flop opportunism, that brought up the spitballs first?

Should I point out he used to work with Lester Maddox and that he once said that LBJ was selling the US out to the "negroes?" Yes, I think I shall.

[Jakub]

Well, I don't think Chris Matthews is as bad as O'Reilly.

[Andrew Mayer]

Zell's quite a hero, wishing for something that he knows full well he'll never have to face.

[Gordon Cameron]

So, is that a veiled way of saying you agree that threatening to kill someone is a rational way to respond to hard questioning? :lol: You and Bill O'Reilly both, if so.

If duelling was good enough for Alexander Hamilton and Andrew Jackson, by gum, it's good enough for Zell.

[Jakub]

I can't believe that all the make-up, lighting, etc. he must have had helping him, and he still looks like that. Wow.

[XtienMurawski]

I'm just trying to imagine how the Republicans would have reacted had one of their own...say...I dunno...John McCain...pulled something like this at the DNC.

-Amanpour

[Terrene]

I'm just trying to imagine how the Republicans would have reacted had one of their own...say...I dunno...John McCain...pulled something like this at the DNC.

-Amanpour

Actually, for me, Ron Reagan Jr.'s speech at this year's DNC was sort of an equivalent. It got a lot less coverage than Zell's tirade, but listen to what a partisan Republican thinks of that particular chip off the ol' Gipper's block:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1169450/posts

[quatoria]

Wow. Talk about some vicious people. The hilarious bits are the readers savaging Ron JR, calling him a sissy, a "tutu wearing queen", a "little shit", calling for nancy to disown him, putting out calls for his private life to be savaged and destroyed in public to minimize the potential damage, etc - and then in the same breath, in the same thread, praising Zell Miller for turning coat. I guess loyalty and integrity are only important characteristics when they help you, huh? Pathetic.

[Qenan]

He is one stoopid white ass cracker. A credit to Georgia, in other words.

Hey, some good stuff has come out of Georgia. Like... REM. And Miss Georgia. Yeah. ;-)

But otherwise, for once I agree.

[Dave Long]

Sevendust kicks ass and they're from Atlanta. E3 was there too!

--Dave

[Brian Rucker]

Interesting story on Salon. Seems Miller's been completely batshit for some time.

Following his stunningly vituperative and dishonest convention speech, Zell Miller somehow insists that he will forever be "a Democrat." But toward the end of his keynote address, the belligerent Georgia senator offered a clue to his true ideology. "I have knocked on the door of this man's soul," he said of the president, "and found someone home, a God-fearing man with a good heart and a spine of tempered steel."

Whatever party registration he may find convenient to profess, "Zigzag Zell" apparently has looked into his own soul and discovered a powerful affinity for the most extreme wing of the religious right in his home state. In the act of abandoning old friends and savaging his political heritage, Miller has been "born again."

So he declared last spring during an appearance at a dinner for Family Concerns Inc. -- a Georgia group committed to a "spiritual and moral war" to "turn America back to the God of the Bible." Based in one of the state's most conservative northern counties, Family Concerns is run by Nancy Schaefer, a former radio talk-show host, anti-abortion lobbyist and somewhat paranoid activist who suspects that environmental regulations are really a plot by the United Nations to undermine American sovereignty.

In years past, Schaefer never hesitated to express her contempt for Miller and his moderate, quasi-populist Democratic positions. She had plenty of opportunities to criticize the former governor when she was nominated for lieutenant governor by the Republicans in 1994 and ran unsuccessfully in the party's gubernatorial primary in 1998.

Only three years ago, she showed up at a county commission meeting where she "launched into a diatribe against Gov. Roy Barnes and his predecessor, Zell Miller; environmental regulation; the Endangered Species Act and the UN," according to the Atlanta weekly Creative Loafing.

That bitter history didn't discourage the senator from kowtowing to Schaefer and her fellow zealots last May 3, when he delivered the keynote address at their annual dinner. Excerpts of his humble remarks appear on a campaign flier for Schaefer, who is currently the Republican nominee in Georgia's 50th state Senate district:

"I thank my good friend Nancy Schaefer, founder and president of Family Concerns, and I thank all of you here who support it through your dedication and work and contributions and for keeping it alive. You do a great work. You do God's work.

"I want you to know my Lord and Savior has forgiven me ... and I hope you and Family Concerns can forgive me for my neglect and lack of understanding on the issues that were important to you and should have been important to me."

What issues has Miller neglected? For what does he feel the need to atone?

As governor, Miller was forthrightly pro-choice. He has abandoned that position, as he acknowledges in his new book, "A National Party No More," and now believes that the Supreme Court should overturn Roe vs. Wade. That's very much in keeping with his general endorsement of the Republican agenda, from regressive tax cuts to curtailing environmental regulation.

Miller's growing adherence to the religious right goes considerably deeper than the usual obsession with feminism and gay marriage. His new friend Schaefer boasts the endorsement of Roy Moore, the former Alabama chief justice thrown off the bench over a Ten Commandments monument he erected in his courthouse. And the Georgia senator seems to share their theocratic perspective on the Constitution and their hostility to the separation of church and state.

Last February, along with his Senate colleagues and religious right favorites James Inhofe, R-Okla., and Sam Brownback, R-Kan., Miller signed on as an original sponsor of the Constitution Restoration Act. That bill, which would forbid federal judges from hearing any case that challenges the public "acknowledgment of God," represents an unprecedented assault on the independence of the judiciary. Although the bill has received little attention to date, it is an important priority for Schaefer, Moore, Phyllis Schlafly and Alan Keyes, the Republican senatorial nominee in Illinois.

There's more about his work as a 'consultant' for tobacco interests as well.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2004/09/03/zell/index.html

[Derek Meister]

Seems Miller's been completely batshit for some time.

I haven't laughed as hard in a long, long time as when Jon Stewart called Miller "batshit crazy" on last night's Daily Show.

[Brian Rucker]

I was touched by the Miller as Godzilla imitation. Rawwwrrrr!

Here's some interesting commentary from Scott Rosenberg's blog.

Strip this of its spin and modifiers and what Miller is saying is, "While Americans are dying, the opposition party is trying to win the election, and that hurts the nation."

Well, what does Miller suggest Americans do who honestly believe that George Bush is making disastrous mistakes at home and abroad? Grin and bear it and fall in line -- because, hey, he is the commander in chief? The very fact that "young Americans are dying" -- many of whom very likely did not have to be dying -- is what fires up much of the opposition to the president. But Miller thinks that if soldiers are dying, the essential work of democracy -- endorsing our leaders or replacing them if we think they're screwing up -- must halt.

Note the militarism here. Forget that our Constitution puts the civilian authority in charge of the military; in Miller's rhetoric, "commander in chief" trumps "president." And dissent equals insubordination.

Miller's speech goes on to declare, "It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us the freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the agitator, who has given us the freedom to protest."

I'm sorry, senator, but you couldn't be more wrong. (And every Republican who applauded you needs a remedial civics class). It is the U.S. constitution that bestows these freedoms. Executives and legislators sometimes try to abridge them. Soldiers, for the most part, protect them. But from the time of the nation's Founding Fathers on, American leaders, thinkers and citizens have been conscious of the tension between our cherished civil freedoms and the logic of warfare. Waging war demands sacrifice and obedience -- and compromises freedom. And so democracies rightly and appropriately go to war reluctantly, and voters demand that their leaders show that there is no alternative to fighting.

Oh, right, that's why we're having an election-year debate about a "war of choice" in the first place.

I can't imagine anyone watching Miller's frothing speech and feeling reassured about the direction Bush is taking us. It was an outburst of intimidation, intended to cow. Dave Winer heard the jackboots behind it: "Why was the Miller speech so scary? Answer -- you're next. That's what Miller was saying. After this election we put on the brown shirts." That may be a little over the top, but the fact that's it's only a little over the top is itself chilling.

http://blogs.salon.com/0000014/

[Ben Sones]

Seems Miller's been completely batshit for some time.

I haven't laughed as hard in a long, long time as when Jon Stewart called Miller "batshit crazy" on last night's Daily Show.

Yeah, the Daily Show's coverage for the Republican convention has been a lot funnier than their coverage of the Democratic convention. I also liked Steven Colbert's comment that George Bush's compassion was a trait that, like the Olympics, popped up every four years.

[Derek Meister]

Although the Republicans will call it partisan, the fact is, as Stewart himself has said many times, is that with a majority in congress, the supreme court and the white house, the GOP autmatically becomes the biggest target for satire.

And doubly so when you compare the RNC convention to that of the DNC. Frankly, there wasn't nearly as much to make fun of, even purely from a comedy show's eyes, with the Democrats. Comparing the key note speakers, Obama and Miller, shows why.

[Brian Rucker]

When he was talking to McCain last night he was saying something like, "I mean, c'mon, the outrage of protesters I can understand but what we were seeing last night was the outrage of the enfranchised? What's with that?"

[Midnight Son]

Best line was from McCain (paraphrasing) "Kerry must have shot his dog...."

[steve]

Best line was from McCain (paraphrasing) "Kerry must have shot his dog...."
That was funny, but showed how McCain is a complete sellout. He didn't condemn the speech; instead, he joked about it, as if to say, "Look at that crazy man." Couldn't he at least have said something like he did about the Swift Boat Veterans? (And of course he waited for that entire issue to blow up before sweeping in and telling everyone to lay off; the damage was already done.)

[Midnight Son]

Of course you're right. McCain is still a conservative Republican and no matter how "nice" he may seem in person, he's still got an agenda.

[Jamie Madigan]

Anyone know where I can download and watch the Miller and other speeches? I tried C-SPAN.org but couldn't get them to work (just said "Page cannot be displayed when I clicked through to anything).

[Andrew Mayer]

The text of a letter former President Carter sent to Zell Miller over the weekend ...

You seem to have forgotten that loyal Democrats elected you as mayor and as state senator. Loyal Democrats, including members of my family and me, elected you as lieutenant governor and as governor. It was a loyal Democrat, Lester Maddox, who assigned you to high positions in the state government when you were out of office. It was a loyal Democrat, Roy Barnes, who appointed you as U.S. Senator when you were out of office. By your historically unprecedented disloyalty, you have betrayed our trust.

Great Georgia Democrats who served in the past, including Walter George, Richard Russell, Herman Talmadge, and Sam Nunn disagreed strongly with the policies of Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman, John Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson, and me, but they remained loyal to the party in which they gained their public office. Other Democrats, because of philosophical differences or the race issue, like Bo Callaway and Strom Thurmond, at least had the decency to become Republicans.

Everyone knows that you were chosen to speak at the Republican Convention because of your being a “Democrat,” and it’s quite possible that your rabid and mean-spirited speech damaged our party and paid the Republicans some transient dividends.

Perhaps more troublesome of all is seeing you adopt an established and very effective Republican campaign technique of destroying the character of opponents by wild and false allegations. The Bush campaign’s personal attacks on the character of John McCain in South Carolina in 2000 was a vivid example. The claim that war hero Max Cleland was a disloyal American and an ally of Osama bin Laden should have given you pause, but you have joined in this ploy by your bizarre claims that another war hero, John Kerry, would not defend the security of our nation except with spitballs. (This is the same man whom you described previously as “one of this nation's authentic heroes, one of this party's best-known and greatest leaders -- and a good friend.")

I, myself, never claimed to have been a war hero, but I served in the navy from 1942 to 1953, and, as president, greatly strengthened our military forces and protected our nation and its interests in every way. I don’t believe this warrants your referring to me as a pacificist.

Zell, I have known you for forty-two years and have, in the past, respected you as a trustworthy political leader and a personal friend. But now, there are many of us loyal Democrats who feel uncomfortable in seeing that you have chosen the rich over the poor, unilateral preemptive war over a strong nation united with others for peace, lies and obfuscation over the truth, and the political technique of personal character assassination as a way to win elections or to garner a few moments of applause. These are not the characteristics of great Democrats whose legacy you and I have inherited.

[Jamie Madigan]

The text of a letter former President Carter sent to Zell Miller over the weekend ...
Harsh. But while I now think Miller is an ass and batshit crazy to boot, it's not because he dared to speak out against his own party. If you disagree with something your political party is doing, you should not be silenced by some stifling sense of loyalty.

(Of course, the problems most of us still have with Miller's speech was the content and the tone with which it was delivered, which were both inexcusable.)

But out of curiosity, do the Democrats have any formal recourse? Can Miller be booted out of the party?

[extarbags]

Great letter, but Jesus... Lester Maddox? Jesus.

[Andrew Mayer]

But out of curiosity, do the Democrats have any formal recourse? Can Miller be booted out of the party?

They can deny him funds, but he's retiring.

[Ben Sones]

But out of curiosity, do the Democrats have any formal recourse? Can Miller be booted out of the party?

They can deny him funds, but he's retiring.

He'd also be unlikely to win re-election, even if he weren't retiring. I guess as political suicides go, it was pretty spectacular.

[Anders Hallin]

He'd also be unlikely to win re-election, even if he weren't retiring. I guess as political suicides go, it was pretty spectacular.
He is in Georgia, though...

[Uncle Larry]

He is one stoopid white ass cracker. A credit to Georgia, in other words.


He'd also be unlikely to win re-election, even if he weren't retiring. I guess as political suicides go, it was pretty spectacular.

He is in Georgia, though...

I've only lived out here for a just over a year, but screw the both of ya's just the same :D

[Anders Hallin]

Hey, I love Atlanta, and in particular its hockey team, dearly.
I'm just saying that if Zell Miller or someone similar wasn't around, it's very possible that Georgia would vote for a Republican. I think the Georgians have more love for Zell than they have for the Democratic party.

[Prodigy]

http://www.comedycentral.com/mp/play.php?player=realplayer&type=v&quality=high&reposid=/multimedia/tds/headlines/9028.html

[Union Carbide]

"This is what happens to your hair when you won't let gay people touch it."