28 Days Later [Archive] - Quarter To Three Forums

DrCrypt

11-18-2002, 01:18 AM

Tom, tons of continuity with pre-Lifeless-Ordinary Boyle. That creepy dead baby on the ceiling in Trainspotting is back, mewling out Voodoo curses as it controls an entire planet full of murderous, flesh-eating zombies - only this time, its personal. Can the human cavemen learn how to fly thousand year old jet planes in enough time to stop him and his psychotic zombie henchman, Begbie?

Actually, I guess it doesn't have any continuity with his earlier works. Is it good on the same level? Probably not that, either, and there are parts of the film (such as when the protagonists are driving through zombified England, which looks much like they are driving through vivid Impressionist landscapes) that is Boyle at his pretentious worst. And you certainly won't find the same sort of razor-sharp character writing you found in Shallow Grave or Trainspotting - the characters in the film tend to fall into clearly defined zombie movie protagonist cliches, the beautiful-but-tough-yet-at-the-same-time-vulnerable black heroine, the innocent little girl, the evil army general, etc.

That said, these are all staples of the zombie movie formula, and you have to accept them as sort of the inherent weakness of a good zombie movie.

It is the best zombie movie to come out in a long time, though. The opening scenes, where Jim (the hero) comes out of a coma in the hospital and wanders, screaming, through a completely deserted London to a gradually crescending techno score is really creepy. Despite the not-terribly-interesting-characters, the film focuses a lot on the familial bond that develops between the last survivors in England, and although I complained about some of the tacky cinematography in their drive across zombie England looking for the last bastion of humanity in England, the film treats it almost like a family vacation. So obviously it is trying to be more than a standard zombie film, and a lot of times, despite its flaws, it succeeds. And the movie is pretty exciting and scary and gross to boot.

I really really dug it. If you have any geek-love for zombie flicks, check it out.

Tom Chick

11-18-2002, 02:41 AM

Being the kind of guy who detests spoilers (I close my eyes and ears during trailers), I skimmed your post the same way I might skim a review before seeing a movie. It sounds like what Reign of Fire should have been, but with zombies instead of dragons! Now I'm psyched. I love good directors doing bad genres, particularly horror, so I hope 28 Days find a US distributor soon.

One last question: how does it look? It sounds like an expensive movie to make. Were the production values garage-level stuff or does it look like they spent some money?

Although I think that Romero got far too earnest in his later movies (Dawn of the Dead is great for kitsch value, but it's a *terrible* movie!), I think Night of the Living Dead is fantastic for being a zombie film that's only peripherally about zombies (in fact, I'm pretty sure they don't even use the word). I recently re-watched Return of the Living Dead and really enjoyed it. Which reminds me that I need to see Jackson's Dead Alive again.

-Tom

DrCrypt

11-18-2002, 03:06 AM

One last question: how does it look? It sounds like an expensive movie to make. Were the production values garage-level stuff or does it look like they spent some money?
Actually, it is very slick. The scenes in deserted London are especially well-done, with helicopter aerial shots of Jim walking, completely alone, across the London bridge, Charing Cross, Trafalgar Square, underneath Big Ben, etc. It looks as if they actually deserted London to film the beginning, but it is probably that computer animation hoodoo stuff I keep hearing about.

The zombies are also pretty durn spooky, although they seem to have traded in the George-Romero-lumbering method school of zombie acting for some sort of hyperactive, gibbering insanity. But they are always doing impressive zombie things like eating flesh, tearing their skin and profusely vomitting blood (scary, because a drop of blood is apparently enough to turn someone into a zombie within 15 seconds).

When it comes out, go see it - no one in Dublin was expecting a zombie movie from Danny Boyle, of all people, and girls expecting a Ewan-McGregor-less Lifeless Ordinary romance were literally jumping into my lap within the first five minutes. It is getting mainstream release here. I wouldn't expect the same to happen in America, though - it is going to tank.

By the way, the web site (which has some of the busiest, most obnoxious Flash I've ever seen) is here (http://www.28dayslaterthemovie.co.uk). It is distributed by Fox over here, so I imagine it is only a matter of time before it is released States-side.

I recently re-watched Return of the Living Dead and really enjoyed it. Which reminds me that I need to see Jackson's Dead Alive again.
Return of the Living Dead is probably the best zombie movie ever made, in my opinion - it is hard for me to think of a smarter, slicker film that knows exactly when to undercut its tongue-in-cheek-irony for genuine horror. Dead Alive is the best zombie film in the last decade, closely rivalled by the Italian classic "Cemetary Man", starring a pre-Wilde-ian Rupert Everett as a necrophile zombie hunter.

As for Dawn of the Dead being a bad movie - yeah, well, I guess, but I love it and when it first came out, nobody had seen anything like it. The schlockiest part of the film is when the black guy decides not to kill himself, jumps up and starts beating up zombies as what sounds like the A-Team theme-song heroically plays in the background.

Tom Chick

11-18-2002, 03:43 AM

Return of the Living Dead is probably the best zombie movie ever made

Hmm. Now that I think of it, I think I agree.

the Italian classic "Cemetary Man", starring a pre-Wilde-ian Rupert Everett as a necrophile zombie hunter.

Yes! Great call, DrCrypt! It's sometimes called Dellamorte, Dellamore, but it's in English, so those of you reluctant to read subtitles shouldn't be scared off. I loved that movie, which is as much an existential fable as a horror movie. Great, great stuff and one of the few movies I've considered tracking down on VHS (Twins of Evil being the other).

-Tom

DrCrypt

11-18-2002, 04:48 AM

I loved that movie, which is as much an existential fable as a horror movie.
An existentialist fable for what, though? I know it is deep because Rupert Everett is in it and it is incoherent, but flexing my pineal gland at the end there only resulted in a nose-bleed and the already obvious idea that "that big breasted Francesa chick sure is hot".

Desslock

11-18-2002, 04:49 AM

Although I think that Romero got far too earnest in his later movies (Dawn of the Dead is great for kitsch value, but it's a *terrible* movie!)

I couldn't disagree more. Terrible acting - yes. There's also an abbreviated version (which I think was the commercial release in NA) that cuts out about 10 minutes at the end, rendering the finale, uh, less coherent. But Dawn of the Dead is one of the all time best horror movies (and the very best movie in that oh-so-special "end of the world" subgenre).

I think Night of the Living Dead is fantastic for being a zombie film that's only peripherally about zombies (in fact, I'm pretty sure they don't even use the word).

All three of Romero's Dead movies are only peripherally about zombies, and none of them actually use the word "zombie".

I recently re-watched Return of the Living Dead and really enjoyed it. Which reminds me that I need to see Jackson's Dead Alive again.

I saw both of these recently (along with the Rupert Everett flick), thanks to the amazing "Scream" network. They're both fun, especially if you kick ass for the lord. Other than being interesting because Everett was in it, I don't really have anything good to say about the other flick). I never saw any of the sequels to the Return of the Living Dead movies, which were probably terrible (RotLD has nothing to do with Romero's movies, in case anyone thought otherwise).

Stefan

DrCrypt

11-18-2002, 05:02 AM

They're both fun, especially if you kick ass for the lord. I never saw any of the sequels to the Return of the Living Dead movies, which were probably terrible (RotLD has nothing to do with Romero's movies, in case anyone thought otherwise).
Dammit, I think otherwise. John A. Russo and Russell Streiner, 2/3rds of the original NOTLD team, helped write and produce it. The script specifically mentions that the gas that is causing all the problems inspired the original film. Also, legally speaking, Russo and Streiner were able to get the rights to use the "Living Dead", so it definitely has some thing to do with the originals.

All three of Romero's Dead movies are only peripherally about zombies, and none of them actually use the word "zombie".
I'm positive that Roger in Dawn of the Dead uses the word "zombie" to describe them.

Erik

11-18-2002, 06:33 AM

Also, legally speaking, Russo and Streiner were able to get the rights to use the "Living Dead", so it definitely has some thing to do with the originals.

Yeah, what you said. I'm almost positive Russo has some sort of perpetual claim to the words "Living Dead" and Romero gets just "Dead" by itself.

All three of Romero's Dead movies are only peripherally about zombies

I know that Dawn of the Dead is a cautionary tale about how buying lots of different things in one convenient location like JC Penney is turning us all into zombies - of consumerism! - and how, ultimately, consuming Starsky cardigans and goucho pants is basically as scary as consuming human flesh. And I think that Night of the Living Dead is about racism or maybe how even bad people can have good ideas, such as hide in the basement. I'm not sure about Day of the Dead. Racism again? I don't know. I like the Dead series a lot more when I can convince myself it's all about the zombies.

DrCrypt

11-18-2002, 06:46 AM

I'm not sure about Day of the Dead. Racism again?
Pre-emptive socio-political commentary on the post-September 11th Bush military-industrial complex is my bet. No need to wear a beret and have an anarky tattoo on your anus to titter at who Bub is supposed to represent.

Erik

11-18-2002, 06:51 AM

And I want to add my vote for "Return of the Living Dead" as best zombie movie ever. Maybe. Dawn of the Dead is way up there too, though, like I said, its strained social message and terrible, awful acting affects its standing. On the other hand, the shootout in the tenement is still effectively shocking and scary. So I don't know. I guess it's a tie. Don't forget Zombie with its really hard to watch eye trauma scene and the zombie vs. shark fight. Actually, there are a lot of great italian zombie movies. There's a script floating around for Romero's fourth dead film - Helen Hunt marries a zombie.

Erik

11-18-2002, 07:05 AM

Pre-emptive socio-political commentary on the post-September 11th Bush military-industrial complex is my bet.

I've only seen Day of the Dead once, when it came out back in whenever that was. I only really remember the scene where the one guy gets ripped in half while he's still alive. I also have a lingering impression that the heroes were a rainbow coalition of hippies who all lived together in a trailer. So I'll just assume you're right. Still, it seems if there were ever a situation where you'd really hope for some armed and well-trained military types to be hanging around, it'd be when the dead rise from their graves to devour the living.

DrCrypt

11-18-2002, 07:07 AM

Now, if Desslock wants to come here and argue that "Zombie" isn't really a Living Dead sequel, be my guest - when Dawn of the Dead was released in Italy as editted by Dario Argento and marketted as "Zombi", it was a huge success and quickly spawned Lucio Fulci's really gross cash-in "Zombi 2". Lucio Fulci is really the master of the Italian zombie film (The Beyond is just pure creepiness), along with Lamberto Bava, who, with Dario Argento (again) was responsible for the one film that besides the Warriors should definitely be a video game: Demons. I want to be the jive-talking black pimp in the plaid suit with the switch blade! Demons 2 isn't shabby, either.

Another Italian zombie flick I really love is City of the Walking Dead - it starts off with a plane just landing at an airport, and like a hundred insane zombies running off of it and chopping everyone up with axes. Great schlock.

Erik

11-18-2002, 07:12 AM

City of the Walking Dead - it starts off with a plane just landing at
an airport, and like a hundred insane zombies running off of it and chopping everyone up with axes.

Yes! That's all I remember about that movie, though. I think they even repeated the scene at the end. I could be wrong about that. The director, Umberto Lenzi, also made the notoriously ghastly Cannibal Ferox.

DrCrypt

11-18-2002, 07:24 AM

Yes! That's all I remember about that movie, though. I think they even repeated the scene at the end. I could be wrong about that.
I don't think you're wrong. As I recall, the hero of the movie (whom is the typical protagonist of an Italian zombie film in that he looks like the smelliest professor you ever had in college and is supposedly played by someone with a name like "Joe America!" in the sub-titled credits) is some kind of television reporter, covering the mysterious airplane landing at the Milan airport. At the end of the movie, he gets eaten by the zombies, only to discover that he's dozed off at the airport waiting for the plane to unload. Ha ha! It was only a dream. OR WAS IT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

There's another great scene in that movie when the axe wielding zombie burst onto the set of a 70's Italian aerobecise television show. That's all I remember though. Is Cannibal Ferox another name for Cannibal Holocaust, or one of those early 80's cash-ins?

Erik

11-18-2002, 07:32 AM

Is Cannibal Ferox another name for Cannibal Holocaust

Crap. I was thinking of Cannibal Holocaust, which isn't actually another name for Cannibal Ferox. Ferox is indeed a Holocaust ripoff released in the States as Make Them Die Slowly. So never mind.

Bub, Andrew

11-18-2002, 07:52 AM

No need to wear a beret and have an anarky tattoo on your anus to titter at who Bub is supposed to represent.

Just wanted to jump in and note to people who haven't seen "Day of the Dead" that this is in no way a reference to me. The resemblance between me and the character "Bub" is purely coincidental.

DrCrypt

11-18-2002, 08:07 AM

Another Italian zombie movie I really love is Zombie Lake. It is about a bunch of Nazi zombies that live at the bottom of a skinny-dipping lake. The entire film seems like one brilliant, Romero-inspired excuse to film girls without panties from underneath as they scissor their legs to keep afloat.
http://www.esplatter.com/images/tz/zombielake.jpg
Seig heil, herr cinematographer!

Desslock

11-18-2002, 09:50 AM

Desslock

11-18-2002, 09:54 AM

>I'm positive that Roger in Dawn of the Dead uses the word "zombie" to describe them

Romero deliberately didn't use the word - I just checked the script (which is available online) and it is never used in spoken dialogue. If it slipped into the movie, which I don't remember, it wasn't intentional.

Desslock

11-18-2002, 09:57 AM

>I'm not sure about Day of the Dead. Racism again

Each of the Dead movies incidentally reflects developments at the time - Day of the Dead was intended (according to Romero) to highlight that even though science could make significant changes, it wasn't always wise to do so.

Desslock

11-18-2002, 10:04 AM

>Now, if Desslock wants to come here and argue that "Zombie" isn't really a Living Dead sequel, be my guest - when Dawn of the Dead was released in Italy as editted by Dario Argento and marketted as "Zombi", it was a huge success and quickly spawned Lucio Fulci's really gross cash-in "Zombi 2

Heh, how about an alternate reality "spin-off". Have you seen both Zombi movies? I've heard great things about the Dawn of the Dead edited Zombi, but haven't seen either.

I'm terribly jealous that you've seen Boyle's flick, by the way, which I know the Aintitcool fanboys love. I was hoping it would have played at the Toronto Film Festival this year (where last year I saw another unreleased Boyle flick, Vacuuming Nude in Paradise), but nope.

Jason McCullough

11-18-2002, 10:32 AM

Tyjenks

11-18-2002, 10:57 AM

Spinning around the web for this, I keep getting veiled references to zombie movies being something of a "commentary on the threat of nuclear contamination/annihilation." Which, depressingly, is more interesting to me than the shlocky horror itself.

Anyway have links, references.....?

I honestly thought that was also the case with all of the old Alien invasion movies of the 40's and 50's. Hmmmm...zombies, too, eh?

Tom Chick

11-18-2002, 01:28 PM

Whoa, rockin' thread!

Is Zombie Lake better than Shock Waves, the other movie about underwater Nazi zombies made by Peter Cushing? And what is it about Nazi zombies that makes them amphibious? Is it because the Germans were so effective at using U-boats and that technology carried over into their zombies?

-Tom

Bub, Andrew

11-18-2002, 01:31 PM

An army of underwater zombies also figures into the Illuminati book. That book is sort of a world conspiracy catch-all.... Wonder where that weirdo conspiracy comes from exactly.

DrCrypt

11-18-2002, 02:32 PM

Romero deliberately didn't use the word - I just checked the script (which is available online) and it is never used in spoken dialogue. If it slipped into the movie, which I don't remember, it wasn't intentional.
Yeah, I saw the script too - although you'll notice that every single time they refer to the living dead, the SCRIPT calls them zombies. Not that this really has anything to do with your point that a movie only peripherqally about zombies never even calls them zombies, but I like to sit all clench-jawed, bloody-eyed and rectum-clenched while being pedantic.

As for the movie, I can't seem to find it in Da Dub, but as I recall, Roger says something at one point about one of his raised-from-the-dead-friends looking "like some kind of... Zombie!!!", almost as if he were struggling to describe the event with a completely irrelevant noun that he knows to be incorrect, which is why I remember it. I was like, duh, he's more than like a zombie, nephew.

Is Zombie Lake better than Shock Waves, the other movie about underwater Nazi zombies made by Peter Cushing? And what is it about Nazi zombies that makes them amphibious? Is it because the Germans were so effective at using U-boats and that technology carried over into their zombies?
I dunno. I'm personally waiting for a living-dead sequel to Das Boot. According to Zombie Lake, they can synchronize swim long enough to start zombie-sucking on spread-eagled, aquatic vaginas, which is quite the skill, so I figure the average zombie can pilot a German U-Boat, piece-a-cake.

For the record, though, Zombie Lake is better than everything.

Spinning off topic to a non-Zombie movie, but still brain-eating movies, anyone here ever seen Brain Dead, with Aylmer, the brain-eating, talking slug? His rendition of Elmer's Tune in a vomit-encrusted sink, as his host agonizingly screams from withdrawal pains, turned me on to that sonorous siren, Miss Peggy Lee. Great flick - so much better than Basket Case.

Tom Chick

11-18-2002, 03:07 PM

I'm personally waiting for a living-dead sequel to Das Boot.

Are there zombies in Below? I didn't see it, but it'll go into the Netflix queue, mainly because Darren Aronofsky worked on the script.

For the record, though, Zombie Lake is better than everything.

Hmm. Okay, it just went to the top of my Netflix queue. For the record, it displaced Y Tu Mama Tambien.

Spinning off topic to a non-Zombie movie, but still brain-eating movies, anyone here ever seen Brain Dead, with Aylmer, the brain-eating, talking slug?

I'm afraid I'm not a Henenlotter fan. Isn't he pretty much a one-trick pony, with all of his movies being variations on Basket Case, but with increasingly outrageous masks? I recall seeing one of the Basket Case sequels and thinking it was like a community theatre production of a David Cronenberg movie.

-Tom

Don Quixote

11-18-2002, 04:07 PM

Damn. I kept seeing the thread title, and assumed that the discussion had to do with that wreched Sandra Bullock movie, and missed out on all the fun. Oh well.

But speaking of zombie movies, Japan has been turning lots of good ones recently, too. 'Wild Zero' staring the j-rock band Guitar Wolf, is pure campy fun. The scene where the band drops acid in a car surrounded by zombies is priceless. Watching this movie teaches us that Rock-n-Roll can overcome all obstacles, including zombies and alien invasions.

'Versus' is another japanese movie, but it's really more like a Hong-Kong action flick- impossibly cool and pretty japanese gangsters and convcicts kicking ass (guns, swords, fists, you name it) in a zombie infested forest. Actually it ends up as something like Convicts vs. Yakuza vs. Zombies vs. Reincarnated Samurai vs. Immortal Sorcerers vs. The World. It's a hoot.

Another good horror/action flick we saw recently is 'Dog Soldiers' in which a troop of brittish soldiers on a routine training mission in scotland runs into a pack of werewolves. It's very 'Aliens', but with a less coherent plot and more likeable characters.

William Harms

11-18-2002, 05:39 PM

DrCrypt

11-18-2002, 11:19 PM

Oooo! Ooooo! I have to run off to work now, but I'll write more later. But while my enthusiasm is still gushing, the Blind Dead series of Spanish zombie films are awesome! They are Satanic Knight Templars who were tortured and blinded to death during the Inquisition. Or something. Now they drink blood for revenge, and you have to be really, really quiet when they are around.

DrCrypt

11-19-2002, 02:47 AM

Is Zombie Lake better than Shock Waves, the other movie about underwater Nazi zombies made by Peter Cushing?
I never saw Shock Waves, so I went to the scientists for answers. These clinically quantified results are as following:

Zombie Lake (http://www.coldfusionvideo.com/z/zombielake.html)

body count: 31
breasts: 20
explosions: 6
ominous thunderstorms: 0
actors who've appeared on Star Trek: 0

Shock Waves (http://www.coldfusionvideo.com/s/shockwaves.html)

body count: 9
breasts: 0
explosions: 0
dream sequences: 0
ominous thunderstorms: 2
actors who've appeared on Star Trek: 0

Clearly, Zombie Lake takes the aquatic-zombie-world-cup. More bodies, more breasts (INFINITY TIMES MORE, according to my calculator) and more explosions. The only category that Shock Waves comes out as the victor in is the questionable "ominous thunderstorms" category, which I'm assuming would have made the plausibility of Zombie Lake's twenty pairs of breasts too much of a stretch for Zombie Lake's director, cinema-auteur J.A. Lazer.

Note that that Zombie Lake review says that Zombie Lake was turned down by Jesse Franco as "too cheap of a project" for him.

Desslock

11-19-2002, 10:40 AM

Best zombie movie: Night of the Living Dead. No question about it.

Agree. Avoid the "30th Anniversary" edition revised cut (with new footage!) like the plague, however.

What did you think of the 90s remake, by Romero's make-up guy, Tom Savini? It's decent, and has some haunting shots, but not as good (and the acting is even worse than in the original, notwithstanding Candyman in the lead).

Anonymous

11-19-2002, 10:58 AM

Zombie Lake (http://www.coldfusionvideo.com/z/zombielake.html)

That review made me want to buy the movie. $10 at amazon.com... it's mine.

wumpus

11-19-2002, 07:48 PM

OT: Steve, are you ever going to fucking register on these boards? Jesus. As much time as you spend here, I think you can spare the measly 30 to 45 seconds it would take to create an account.

Or, maybe not having an account is somehow part of your indie nonconformist street cred.

William Harms

11-20-2002, 02:53 PM

Agree. Avoid the "30th Anniversary" edition revised cut (with new footage!) like the plague, however.

What did you think of the 90s remake, by Romero's make-up guy, Tom Savini? It's decent, and has some haunting shots, but not as good (and the acting is even worse than in the original, notwithstanding Candyman in the lead).

I made the mistake of buying the 30th Anniversary Edition the day it came out. Talk about a pile 'o shit--the new scenes are a joke. I still can't believe how bad it is. (The recent Millennium Edition is fantastic, though.)

Like you, I think the remake is okay. I'm dreading the Dawn of the Dead remake, though...

Slothrop

12-02-2002, 11:10 AM

Another good horror/action flick we saw recently is 'Dog Soldiers' in which a troop of brittish soldiers on a routine training mission in scotland runs into a pack of werewolves. It's very 'Aliens', but with a less coherent plot and more likeable characters.

I was very disappointed with Dog Soldiers. There were some nice bits, but the story was a trainwreck and the editing was crap.

Best zombie movie: Night of the Living Dead. No question about it.

I watched Dog Soldiers last night and liked it a lot for a stupid, mindless werewolf flick. Of course the story sucked, and the plot didn't hold water, but the action was great, and I cared about the characters. The soldiers' Scottish slang and profanity were highly enjoyable, too. Low budget, but not too cheesy looking, due to the fast-cut editing (maybe that's what William disliked), shadowy sets, and not showing too much of the werewolves. Whenever the action slowed down, the plot problems loomed up again, but whenever the werewolves were on the attack, this movie rocked in a very Aliens way.

DrCrypt

12-02-2002, 11:14 AM

What did you think of the 90s remake, by Romero's make-up guy, Tom Savini? It's decent, and has some haunting shots, but not as good (and the acting is even worse than in the original, notwithstanding Candyman in the lead).
The main mistakes in the Savini remake, which was pretty good, were making Barbara snap out of it and become some rippling, Sigourney-Weaver-esque She-Ra zombie killer. In the first movie, the most disconcerting thing about the invasion of flesh eating zombies is Barbara's hysteria over all of it. Eliminate the hysteria of someone falling apart at the seams and you instantly eliminate any depth the movie has besides the cinematic equivalent of every 15 year old boy's dreams.

Also: Tony Todd turning into a zombie.

Desslock

12-02-2002, 12:29 PM

The main mistakes in the Savini remake, which was pretty good, were making Barbara snap out of it and become some rippling, Sigourney-Weaver-esque She-Ra zombie killer...Also: Tony Todd turning into a zombie.

Agreed on both points. The original ending is unforgettable. I can understand why they woudn't want to just dupe it, and the Cooper substitution worked pretty well, but it wasn't as effective as the original. The irony that Cooper's plan was the best one, even though he was an ass, was great.

I'm skeptical the Dawn remake will ever happen, and hope it doesn't. I'd like to see Romero finally do his 4th one though, which is off-again, on-again.

DrCrypt

01-23-2003, 02:22 AM

http://filmguide.sundance.org/filmguide/bytitle.php?Range=ST&Category=ALL&Venue=ALL&Day=23&Month=01&Year=2003

Hey, Chick! I hope you've got your tickets! Only two days left.

Captain Cookiepants

01-23-2003, 02:59 AM

Man! You people started talking zombies without me?? Bah.
'nother review of 'Zombie Lake' (http://stomptokyo.com/movies/z/zombie-lake.html)

The main mistakes in the Savini remake, which was pretty good, were making Barbara snap out of it and become some rippling, Sigourney-Weaver-esque She-Ra zombie killer...Also: Tony Todd turning into a zombie.

Agreed on both points. The original ending is unforgettable. I can understand why they woudn't want to just dupe it, and the Cooper substitution worked pretty well, but it wasn't as effective as the original. The irony that Cooper's plan was the best one, even though he was an ass, was great.

Maybe it was just the style he was going for at the time, or maybe he just didn't know better, but I thought the original felt too claustophobic. To me it just didn't feel that scary since all the characters where cramped up in tiny corners with 10k's shining on them. The remake broadened the house a bit and made it seem more dangerous; there were more windows to be seen, and who knows what's in the next room?
Also Barbara didn't really 'butch out', she was crying (badly) and obviously too scared to do much else but run, I don't think she shot anything, just ran.
I DID bitterly hate when they tried to throw a message at us about how the people playing with the zombies were somehow 'worse' than the zombies themselves.

And yeah Cooper's plan was the best, if you remember the banging of the hammers were what drew the zombies to the house in the first place, but I think Candyman (forgot his name) was just panicking and HAD to be doing something so he didn't feel helpless. He was keeping his hands busy to prevent his mind thinking about the situation. Note that he also smoked, another nervous habit.

And I LOVED 'Dog Soldiers', how often do you see someone try to fist fight a werewolf? The wardrobe thing was BRILLIANT. http://www.badmovieplanet.com/inferno/archives/dogsol.html Review for those've not seen it.

DrCrypt

01-23-2003, 03:18 AM

William Harms

01-23-2003, 09:38 AM

http://filmguide.sundance.org/filmguide/bytitle.php?Range=ST&Category=ALL&Venue=ALL&Day=23&Month=01&Year=2003

Hey, Chick! I hope you've got your tickets! Only two days left.

When is this movie being released in the US? Anyone know? I can't find a release date anywhere...

Captain Cookiepants

01-23-2003, 09:49 AM

Also Barbara didn't really 'butch out', she was crying (badly) and obviously too scared to do much else but run, I don't think she shot anything, just ran.
You're misremembering the remake. While you are right that she does freak out after Johnny is killed, she pulls herself together about thirty minutes into the film, makes a couple of ra-ra-feminism speeches, rips off her blouse to reveal bulging biceps and a wife beater underneath abd straps some pistols to her to kick zombie ass. From that point on, she's in full Zombie-fighting Ripley mode. I think she actually punches Cooper at one point, though I could be wrong, but she definitely shoots him in cold blood at the end. She also shoots numerous zombies as she makes her "run" (she's not fleeing) for help.
Ah ok, I see what you mean. But note that she didn't leave the house until the entire thing went down the toilet, she wanted to sure, but not until she had no other choice did she run off with the cop's gun. And, like I said, she was wailing and gnashing at the heavens the whole time, then gets EXTRA girly when finding the truck full of heads. It MIGHT have been a really half-assed attempt at a feminist statement to contrast the complacency of Cooper's wife and the CONSTANT screaming of the girl, but I think they were going for a more 'quiet well of reserve' type thing.

Actually, the Savini remake is probably way better than anyone should have gotten for a movie that didn't need to be remade to begin with.
Agreed

Note that he also smoked, another nervous habit.
I had never thought of Night of the Living Dead (with its thousands of flesh-addicted zombies trying to take over the world and its nicotine-addicted, eventually-zombified hero) as an damning allegory of the Tobacco Industry. But... MAKES SENSE! And, hell, all you self-righteous health pundits had to do was correlate smoking with zombies for me to start poo-pooing with you in the Non-Zombie camp. That's way more effective than those "Truth" ads.

EXACTLY! And you know what the spade represented in the original? Big Tabaccoo getting it's 'digs' into yet ANOTHER victim!!! And the blood spattered on said spade in the remake WASN'T a cute wink to the original, but the director saying 'OK you proud health saviors, I give up my filthy habit! THANK YOU for saving me!!'
Anyway, back to reality. I bet, when thing's get tense, you bite your nails, the whole 'boarding up the windows' thing was his proactive fidgeting. He HAD to keep moving to keep his sanity. Plus the movie would have been an hour and a half of them bickering in the basement before the little girl changed.

And you know something? The FIRST thing I would have done is head upstairs and searched for an attic.

Toddy

01-24-2003, 03:25 PM

Where the fuck can you get ahold of an Italian zombie movie? Is some kind of "keep spreading the tapes" cult, um, spreading the tapes? If so, somebody hook me up, because I really want to see that airplane landing scene.

dwinn

01-24-2003, 04:51 PM

And I want to add my vote for "Return of the Living Dead" as best zombie movie ever.

I think the "Return" series is just a bit too goofy to say it's the best zombie movie ever. This is the same movie where the boyfriend becomes zombified and somehow convinces his girlfriend that letting him snack on her brains is a good idea -- and she finally agrees!

Don't get me wrong, it's funny and I like the movie, but I'd put any of Romero's trilogy before the "Return" series for sheer zombie terror.

Anonymous

01-27-2003, 01:37 PM

I'm just killing time while waiting to get my flight out of Utah, but I wanted to say that I think Danny Boyle has closed the book on zombie movies for a while.

28 Days Later is as good as it gets. Faithful to the genre without being stale. It's faster, meaner, better. I don't think I can take seriously anymore Romero's shambling ghouls with their arms held in front of them like Frankenstein monsters.

The movie will be distributed domestically by Fox Searchlight. I don't think the release has been scheduled yet, but they have a challenge ahead of them considering the title and the British-ness. The main problem with be the lack of star power to draw the young audience required to make it successful. But you guys will get to see it and I'm predicting warm fuzzies all around.

-Tom

xahlt

01-27-2003, 02:46 PM

I think the "Return" series is just a bit too goofy to say it's the best zombie movie ever.

Right on. And if you're going for goofy zombie movies Brain Dead beats Return dead on.

I'd also classify the original Night as the best film with zombies (although I'm surprised we don't have more Fulci boosters here) and Dawn as the coolest in a 10th-grade-say-wouldn't-it-be-cool-if-we-were-trapped-in-a-mall sort of way. You fly-boys crack me up.

I'm interested in this 28 days later movie though.

Desslock

01-27-2003, 04:09 PM

The movie I was looking forward to the most at Sundance was 28 Days Later -- in fact, being able to see it was one of the primary reasons I made a last minute decision to attend Sundance. Assessment: worth each and every of the 60,000 frequent flier points I dropped to zip to Utah.

It's a great movie, which is very deferential to the Romero Dead movies (there's numerous homages to each of the 3 Dead movies). The audience of 1300 people that Tom and I saw the movie was very into the movie, in spite of it not being a very typical Sundance film -- you could have heard a pin drop in the theatre during the film.

Much as I love the Romero films, 28 Days Later is a much better film than any of that trilogy, primarily because it has a more capable director and far better production values -- Boyle may not be able to match Romero's creative vision, and the movie definitely duplicates (deliberately) some of the less plausible yet typical elements of films of the genre, but 28 Days Later is a first-rate action, or horror, film, and one of the best "end of world" films ever.

Desslock

01-27-2003, 04:12 PM

there are parts of the film (such as when the protagonists are driving through zombified England, which looks much like they are driving through vivid Impressionist landscapes) that is Boyle at his pretentious worst.

Heh, great call on that scene with the flowers. Bizarrely misplaced.

xahlt

01-27-2003, 06:44 PM

Brain Dead beats Return dead on.

Damn, guess I should have said Brain Dead (Dead Alive) here since someone was bringing up the other Brain Dead earlier.

DrCrypt

01-28-2003, 02:40 AM

I think the "Return" series is just a bit too goofy to say it's the best zombie movie ever. This is the same movie where the boyfriend becomes zombified and somehow convinces his girlfriend that letting him snack on her brains is a good idea -- and she finally agrees!
Erik, Tom and I agreed too, in a guttling orgy of mutual skull-crunching and brain-sucking, leaving us the lurching intellectual zombies you currently see before you. Why else would we recommend a series of movies (especially the stinky Return of the Return of the Living Dead) that were so terrible that even the bipartisan Zombie Lover/Haters held hands outside of Congress to sing a song reaffirming the goodness of humanity that those films had so fundamentally shaken?

Oh, actually, wait. We weren't endorsing the series - just the first one. Which is totally great and Barsoom to ROTLD2's Pellucidar in terms of their respective heights of talent, writing, horrors and humor. Don't forget that the writer and director of Return of the Living Dead was the man who wrote Alien.

I agree, though. The other films sucked - I still remember that Michael Jackson joke in the second one with a nauseous heave of dismay for man's artistic cruelty to fellow man.

DrCrypt

01-28-2003, 02:42 AM

28 Days Later is as good as it gets. Faithful to the genre without being stale. It's faster, meaner, better. I don't think I can take seriously anymore Romero's shambling ghouls with their arms held in front of them like Frankenstein monsters.
Glad you liked it, Tom. To be fair, Romero did a zombie film five years before he did Dawn of the Dead that in some ways is very similar to 28 Days Later (biological agents turn an entire community into insane, murderous "zombies") called The Crazies (http://us.imdb.com/Plot?0069895). So actually, Boyle is taking his cue from a Romero zombie film that was made even before Romero defined the zombie genre with Dawn of the Dead - making its forumla even staler than Dawn!

Although I have some problems with 28 Days Later - especially its completely implausible "bicycle courier single-handedly takes out an entire army batallion" finale - some of the writing is absolutely chilling. The story about whatsisface losing his family in the middle of a crowd that was rapidly becoming infected is absolutely chilling - even more so because it is conveyed all verbally, without any flashbacks. Brendan Gleeson's completely unexpected infection-through-the-eye scene and his subsequent "turning" as he tries to chase his daughter away from him was also incredibly well done. And even though I just complained about the finale, I understand what Boyle was trying to get at with it, and it is an interesting twist on the "dead shall walk the earth" genre.

28 Days Later is a first-rate action, or horror, film, and one of the best "end of world" films ever.
Agreed. Though I still think "Miracle Mile" is the best end of the world film ever.

DrCrypt

01-28-2003, 02:57 AM

Damn, guess I should have said Brain Dead (Dead Alive) here since someone was bringing up the other Brain Dead earlier.
That's okay, because I saw Dead Alive for the first time when the brain splatter at the beginning read "Brain Dead". Also, I was confusing Brain Damaged, which has the Peggy-Lee brain-sucking worm, with another great movie called Braindead (http://us.imdb.com/Title?0099173).

Completely undescribable, absolutely bizarre, you either love it or you hate it movie as Bill Pullman is dragged down into madness. It was written by Charles Beaumont who, along with Richard Matheson, wrote most of the best Twilight Zone episodes. As near as the plot can be described, Bill Pullman plays a neurosurgeon who has come up with a surgical technique to alter people's sense of reality. Bill Paxton saunters up and convinces Pullman to use the technique to extract a number from an insane mathematician's head. After that, Pullman is hit by a car, and after that, it is hard to tell what is going on. I haven't seen it for years, but the directing, writing and editing is incredibly clever, with all sorts of subtle inconsistencies within scenes that emphasize Pullman's tenuous hold on reality and his fluctuation between pseudo-realities and completely insane dreams. Pullman and Paxton are more tolerable than usual, as well.

Highly recommended.

Jason McCullough

01-28-2003, 03:15 AM

Erik

01-28-2003, 04:56 AM

I was confusing Brain Damaged, which has the Peggy-Lee brain-sucking worm, with another great movie called Braindead.

Don't forget that Braindead also stars the now perpetually grizzled Bud Cort. And whatever happened to Frank Henenlotter? He made three awesome movies - Brain Damage, Basket Case, and Frankenhooker - and then just disappeared.

Ron Dulin

01-28-2003, 05:03 AM

[quote]To be fair, Romero did a zombie film five years before he did Dawn of the Dead that in some ways is very similar to 28 Days Later (biological agents turn an entire community into insane, murderous "zombies") called The Crazies (http://us.imdb.com/Plot?0069895).

The Crazies has a terrfying opening scene, but I was pretty disappointed with everyhting after the first 5 minutes.

[quote]
I still think "Miracle Mile" is the best end of the world film ever.

That's a great one. I used to live right off Miracle Mile, so it always held a fond place in my heart. I don't know whether it would beat out The Rapture, though.

Erik

01-28-2003, 05:05 AM

Sometimes I forget about IMDB: Frank Henenlotter made Basket Case 2 & 3 in rapid succession in the early 90's and *then* disappeared. For some reason, he gets thanked in the relatively recent Anne Heche movie for girls, Walking and Talking.

Erik

01-28-2003, 05:08 AM

I'm answering all of my own questions today. I just remembered that Walking and Talking has a scene that takes place at some sort of Fangoria convention. I'll bet Frank Henenlotter loaned them some props or something, and that's why he gets thanked.

Bub, Andrew

01-28-2003, 07:35 AM

I'm not up on my end of the world movies, but I do remember being scared absolutely shitless by The Day After on ABC when I was a kid, even though I didn't see much of it (parents made me go to bed). I'm guessing it actually wasn't that all that: anyone seen it?

I think anyone who answers "no" to this question has to be under 24. "The Day After" was an event-movie. Everybody saw it. Like the MASH finale. I don't remember it being a good movie, but I remember it scaring the crap out of my generation. It was indeed "that all that". It's funny, as I remember I was about 8 and hearing Reagan blather about the Evil Empire, the various crisis of that time, most people feared The Day After because they wondered if it was a preview of what 1985+ might be like. Sometimes it's sobering to remember what it was like during the end of the Cold War. Retrospect is far less scary.

Scarier was a documentary I saw at around the same time about Hiroshima. The shadows on the walls. Grabbing a man's hand and pulling off his skin like one of those fancy society up-to-the-elbow-arm gloves.

Ok, back to your zombies or whatever.

DrCrypt

01-28-2003, 01:03 PM

Desslock

01-28-2003, 06:54 PM

Desslock, earlier you said that Night of the Living Dead was the best zombie movie ever. Now, you're saying that 28 Days Later is better than any of the Zombie Triology. Are you therefore saying that 28 Days Later is the best zombie movie ever? I loved it, but I don't think I'd go that far, and I'd be interested to hear your reasons (besides the obvious step-up in production values).

I never said NotLD was the best zombie movie ever -- the only statement I made along those lines was that I thought Dawn of the Dead was the best "end-of-the-world" movie ever.

I love the creativity of Romero's movies -- the fact that he doesn't just remake the same movie over again, and instead further develops the setting with each movie. 28 Days Later is much less interesting in that regard, and has numerous homages to the Romero movies, including:

- the naked "zombie" walking out of the woods (NotlD);
- the shopping scene (Dawn);
- the "Hell" on earth reference (Dawn);
- the chained "zombie" (Day);
That's aside from other conventions, like the "humans are just as bad"; unrealistic moments of lightness; normal people becoming superhuman exterminators, etc.

But there's a lot of things I like better in 28 Days Later:

-- the lack of a supernatural explanation;
-- the acting (which is universally terrible in the Dead movies)
-- production values -- nothing ever seems cheesy;
-- the direction, especially of the action scenes. Romero is a creative guy, but not a very good director, and the action scenes frequently look staged;
-- the ending (not the confrontation, but the very ending), which was a plausible resolution and yet didn't dilute the terror of the threat.

Judged at the time the movies were released, my conclusion might be different, but there's no doubt in my mind that 28 Days Later is a better movie to watch today. No one would be happier if Romero topped it with Dead Reckoning, the 4th Dead movie which is now finally in production, but I'm skeptical he'll be able to do so.

Tom Chick

01-28-2003, 08:09 PM

Are you therefore saying that 28 Days Later is the best zombie movie ever? I loved it, but I don't think I'd go that far, and I'd be interested to hear your reasons (besides the obvious step-up in production values).

I'd certainly say 28 Days Later is the best zombie movie. Evar!

I'd be interested in hearing which one you think is better, Dr. Crypt*. I just don't think the Romero movies hold up very well these days, primarily because he used such awful actors.

-Tom

* Why can't you people use your actual first names or something? It's only people in comic books and the EA forums who call each other dopey names like Dr. Crypt. :)

DrCrypt

01-29-2003, 01:42 AM

Best zombie movie: Night of the Living Dead. No question about it.

Agree. Avoid the "30th Anniversary" edition revised cut (with new footage!) like the plague, however.

I interpreted this to mean that you thought Night of the Living Dead was the best zombie movie ever, and since 28 Days Later was a better film by your estimation than any of the Romero films, I took a counter-gravitational leap of intuition (think: Chris O'Donnell as Peter Garrett, sexy rock climber, Vertical Limit, as he hurtles himself three-thousand horizontal feet between one Himalayan peak to another) and assumed you'd revised your position to "28 Days Later - best zombie movie evar!"

-- the lack of a supernatural explanation;
The Romero movies don't have a supernatural explanation, besides the religious philosophizing of numerous characters. The implication made in the first movie is that a satellite returning from Venus, I think, brought back a bacteria that is causing the dead to walk the earth. One thing I did like about 28 Days Later: for the first time in modern cinema, it is no good hippy activists who usher in the end of the earth in a flesh-eating orgy of zombie violence... not the scientists! Take that, Michael Crichton!

-- the ending (not the confrontation, but the very ending), which was a plausible resolution and yet didn't dilute the terror of the threat.

And is vague enough that it doesn't for a second actually say that the threat has passed, or that the UK has actually been put in containment by the world community, or that the rage hasn't spread further than England's borders. Excellent call. I, too, found the ending to be very satisfying resolution, besides the standard Romero "fly off in a helicopter to a bleak, uncertain future" ending.

No one would be happier if Romero topped it with Dead Reckoning, the 4th Dead movie which is now finally in production

Really, or half-really? That project has been stalled so many times that I can't get excited anymore. Also, is it the one where the army has trained a counter-zombie unit of expertly trained zombies like Bub to rid the world of their gut-chomping brethren? Awesome.

DrCrypt

01-29-2003, 02:21 AM

I'd certainly say 28 Days Later is the best zombie movie. Evar!

I'd be interested in hearing which one you think is better, Dr. Crypt*. I just don't think the Romero movies hold up very well these days, primarily because he used such awful actors.

-Tom

I couldn't immediately come up with a satisfying answer to your query, Tom, so I went to the experts. Here's what "necrozombie2000" on one of the Zombie EZboards I found through google had to say:

"The best zombie movie ever made is THE NECRO FILES! It is about a zombie sex maniac with a 3 foot boner raping and devouring naked girls! Can't beat that!!! "

He's right, I can't, and I don't think Danny Boyle can either. The Necro Files - best zombie movie EVAR!

28 Days Later is a great zombie film, no question, but I still think I'll stick to Return of the Living Dead as my personal choice, with its tongue-in-cheek-yet-still-pretty-creepy take on the post-70's zombie mythos, great acting (seriously, every actor in that film pulls off exactly what they set out to do, and the entire cast has a brilliant rapport with one another that makes the entire film glow. It's the "Singin' in the Rain" of zombie movies, in that regard.), fantastic special effects for its time that hold up well even now, lightning-quick pace, Linnea Quiqley and her latex vagina, and hysterically funny writing that manages to perfectly interact with complete dread (see: the scene where they are interviewing the zombie torso, who talks about how agonizing it is to be dead). Return of the Living Dead just sucks you in and doesn't spit you out again until after the end credits.

And in terms of juggling its zombie movie cliches, Return of the Living Dead seems a lot more comfortable with them, and therefore doesn't fumble them so often. Watch O'Bannon stress the stupid-punks-fucking-in-a-grave-yard cliche at the beginning of the film to get the audience in the "Alright! Zombie chow!" mood, then in the second half of the film suddenly embellish their characters with surprisingly sophisticated emotional responses to what is happening. Even though all of the characters are complete cliches, they all act believably. Compared to that, 28 Days Later seems to handle a lot of its cliches by making them not very interesting - protagonist characterization in 28 Days Later is less existent than even in Romero's films, characters do not act believably and the zombies have no personality. And where Return never removes you from the zombie world it creates, 28 Days Later keeps on pulling the viewer out of its world with pretentious cinematic awkwardnesses (the flowers and windmill scenes, for example), a repeatedly sagging pace and a ludicrous finale.

That all sounds like I hated 28 Days Later, which I obviously didn't. 28 Days Later just can't compare to Return for me, but I'll certainly agree it is probably the best "serious" zombie film ever made. I just don't see why a movie has to be devoid of a sense of humor to be "best".

DrCrypt

01-29-2003, 02:47 AM

* Why can't you people use your actual first names or something? It's only people in comic books and the EA forums who call each other dopey names like Dr. Crypt. :)
I've been using the nick since I was a snot-nosed, 9 year old punk on the Prodigy bulletin boards back in 1989, naming myself after a vampire-fighting private detective during World War 2 I'd serialized therein. And, for the sake of simplicity, I've kept it up until my current state as a snot-nosed 23 year old punk on the QT3 forums, serializing my adventures as a stupidity-fighting quasi-Irishman during Gulf War II.

I'd be happy to drop it if it weren't for the 15 years worth of internet correspondents who have identified me with it - I find it embarassing to still be lugging around a juvenille Internet alias I first adopted when I still considered the periodic nap-time erection a sure sign of groinal cancer.

Also, if I dropped it, where would Derek Smart use his smug "I know your real name that you freely gave me" retort in our frequent arguments, meant to insinuate the existence of a murky and omnipresent Battlecruiser secret police clandestinely watching my every move on the command of Supreme Commander on-high?

Anyone is welcome to call me by my not-so-secret full name, John Brownlee, or Mr. Brownlee to you, hippy.

Desslock

01-29-2003, 06:58 AM

I interpreted this to mean that you thought Night of the Living Dead was the best zombie movie ever, and since 28 Days Later was a better film by your estimation ..."28 Days Later - best zombie movie evar!"

Heh, fair enough -- I forgot I made that statement. I probably still prefer NotLD (and Dawn of the Dead), but they don't hold up as well now, for the reasons I indicated in a prior post.

-- the lack of a supernatural explanation;

The Romero movies don't have a supernatural explanation, besides the religious philosophizing of numerous characters. The implication made in the first movie is that a satellite returning from Venus, I think, brought back a bacteria that is causing the dead to walk the earth.

Well, dead walking the earth for any reason fits into the "supernatural" category, in my opinion. In Romero's words, he never decided why the dead were returning, and didn't think he needed to, whether it was because "when there's no more room in hell, the dead will walk the Earth" or the radiation implicated in NotlD or otherwise. 28 Days Later has a much more plausible, scientific explanation [spoilers] -- the infected are just normal people infected by a virus (not dead).

-- the ending (not the confrontation, but the very ending), which was a plausible resolution and yet didn't dilute the terror of the threat.

-- And is vague enough that it doesn't for a second actually say that the threat has passed, or that the UK has actually been put in containment by the world community, or that the rage hasn't spread further than England's borders. Excellent call. I, too, found the ending to be very satisfying resolution, besides the standard Romero "fly off in a helicopter to a bleak, uncertain future" ending.

Exactly -- it's ambiguous enough to leave the door open for further exploration, yet it features a satisfying resolution as well.

No one would be happier if Romero topped it with Dead Reckoning, the 4th Dead movie which is now finally in production

-- Really, or half-really? That project has been stalled so many times that I can't get excited anymore. Also, is it the one where the army has trained a counter-zombie unit of expertly trained zombies like Bub to rid the world of their gut-chomping brethren? Awesome.

It's definitely in production and has been funded by Fox (the url of the name will take you to Fox). Maybe 28 Days Later helped make it a reality. Romero hasn't commented on the plot, to my knowledge, other than to say he's working on revising the plot from his original idea (walled cities) to reflect current developments.

Stefan

Anonymous

03-15-2003, 02:51 PM

The movie was Brain Damage, and oh so good. Love it!

Don Quixote

04-16-2003, 05:59 PM

Hate to ressurect old threads, but I just saw this last night (SVCD hook-up from a well-connected friend), and wanted to put in my vote that it was pretty damn amazing. Contrary to a couple of opinions here, I thought it was very well-paced, especially the climax. I don't think I've felt so tense watching a movie in a long, long time. Another surprise was the music- the soundtrack was absolutely perfect (especially since they included a couple of tracks from one of my favorite bands "Godspeed You Black Emperor" :D ).

Still not exactly sure when it'll get released here, but I definately plan on seeing it in the theater, and upgrading to DVD when it gets released.

Tom Chick

04-16-2003, 06:33 PM

Still not exactly sure when it'll get released here

Fox Searchlight's website says June 27th. Woo-hoo!

-Tom

EDIT: Note that it also says "In Select Cities", so I'm guessing they're not too confident how it'll bear out as a summer movie. Fox Searchlight is pretty much art house movies.

Don Quixote

04-16-2003, 07:33 PM

Yeah, I assumed it was sometime soon, as I saw the trailer in front of "House of 1000 Corpses" this last weekend. Jeez, zombie overload for me this week- first the Zombie-directed movie, then "28 Days...", and this weekend is our annual Easter-Zombie-Movie-Watching-Fest. Dr. Crypt, I tried to get RotLD on your reccomendation, but it was a no-go (I was overruled). Seems like we're watching The Incredibly Strange Creatures Who Stopped Living and Became Mixed-Up Zombies (http://us.imdb.com/Title?0057181), and the prequal to Versus (http://us.imdb.com/Title?0275773), a movie called "Alive" (we watched "Versus" last year, and this is a follow up).

Oh, and I found this (http://www.observer.co.uk/review/story/0,6903,836839,00.html) about the band I mentioned earlier. Cool.

King Lupid

04-17-2003, 06:29 AM

Wait, you have a zombie moviewatching event every Easter, DQ? Oh man, that is classic. You have made my day :twisted:

dannimal

04-20-2003, 09:57 AM

Am I the only one who keeps seeing this thread and thinking that Sandra Bullock made a sequel to her rehab movie?

Tyjenks

06-01-2003, 11:09 AM

Playboy has an inset blurb about how brilliant this flick is as opposed to the miserable horror flicks Hollywood puts out. Is Playboy's endorsement a good thing or are we supposed to hate it now that it has hit the mainstream? :wink:

DrCrypt

06-02-2003, 03:56 AM

Besides, I don't think the ending was ambiguous at all. Maybe we should take this to another thread, but I was pretty clear on what happened in the end and I think the movie was, too.
The ending is ambiguous, as Desslock and I discussed earlier. The assumption that you seem to have reached when the jet flew overhead at the end ofthe film was that the virus had been contained and the world community had quarantined the British Isles.

Actually, that is in no way communicated by any character in the film who has anyway of knowing - it is just one of the character's hopeful dream scenarios of why there is no help coming. The jet doesn't mean that the virus has been contained, simply that there may be pockets of military resistance in continental Europe (the jet was French, I think) that can still carry out searches for survivors. Hell, we don't even know if the jet picks Jim up eventually - it could be on a recon mission to find out the life span of infected people and simply ignore them.

I think you can plausibly view the ending either way, but my point is that in any case the jet is an ambiguous "proof" of a character's factually ignorant best case scenario. I wouldn't feel unfulfilled or anything if a sequel didn't pop up, but if it did, I wouldn't see it as contradictory to the way the first film panned out.

Tom Chick

06-02-2003, 04:44 AM

WARNING! WARNING! SPOILERS FOR 28 DAYS LATER! DON'T EVEN BE LOOKING IN THIS THREAD IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE MOVIE!

John, you goofball. Just because it can mean a couple of different specific situations, that doesn't mean the ending is ambiguous.

The virus has failed to destroy humanity. There are people out there with the resources to look for other survivors. Jim and the two chicks aren't the last people on earth and the infected are dying of starvation.

How is that ambiguous? It's a happy ending. An ambiguous ending, to me, is one of those OR IS IT????? zingers. There was no such nonsense at the end of 28 Days Later.

-Tom

DrCrypt

06-02-2003, 05:53 AM

Dude, if you have trouble believing that the word "ambiguous" is synonymous with "inconclusive", that part after the credits roled when Jim wakes up out of the Matrix to discover that the zombie plague was all a dream (or IS IT?) probably caused you to nose bleed liquified cerebellum.

But seriously: I think your take on the ending, paraphrased here as "Humanity wins", is pretty weird. If you consider a single jet flying above to be a triumph of humanity over flesh eating zombie hordes, and consequently the drama resolved, I'm surprised you didn't just slap your hands together dramatically and walk out of the theater with a sigh of satisfaction at the point when they reveal that there is a still a royal army batallion near Manchester. After all, that's not all that much more impressive than someone having enough of an air force crew to take a jet for a spin - therefore, humanity rules all zombie fools, roll credits! To press this point further: did you consider it a happy ending when the survivors flew off in a helicopter at the end of Dawn of the Dead?

For me, all that jet decisively proved was that there were pockets of humanity left, which we already knew... not that humanity wouldn't eventually be overcome. "The zombies all starved" thing is again inconclusive: it assumes that the virus didnt spread, or if it did, it spread uniformly and almost instantaneously throughout the globe. That's not the way highly infectious diseases work.

But even if it did.... the idea of "quarantine" being a satisfying solution doesn't realistically hold up. Let's pretend that no one infected gets out of England, even though there is a gigantic chunnel that runs from England to France that zombies could leisurely stroll through. All the zombies starve and the corpses of six million people are strewn all over England. The wild animals inevitably feed off of this and become infected. This infection spreads with the same rapidity through the animal population of England as it did for humans. A seagull or a crow could easily fly over the English Channel and attack someone in Europe. Animals could go through the Chunnel. Quarantine is clearly not going to work - Europe is inevitably going to be infected, then Asia and Africa. Humanity is in now way in the clear.

I still think that the ending is ambiguous enough for a plausible sequel to be made. So whatever, Chick.

Tom Chick

06-02-2003, 06:05 AM

Ahh, I see. To John Brownlee, "ambiguous ending" = "we don't know all the details".

I would have to say my favorite ambiguous ending of all time is Jaws, where Richard Dreyfus and Roy Scheider are paddling back to shore, but we don't know whether they're going to make it or not. Would that barrell sink? Would another shark eat them? Was the tide really with them?

Brilliant! I was haunted for days by that one. Thank Christ they made Jaws 2 and cleared that up for me.

Look, dude, 28 Days Later ended. It's over. Deal with it. It's a pat, self-contained movie that isn't supposed to have the audience all a-buzz about what really happened at the end.

And, yeah, sure, of course they could make a sequel. As evidenced by the piece of junk called The Matrix Reloaded, apparently there aren't any sequel police watching over that sort of thing these days.

-Tom

mtkafka

06-02-2003, 06:13 AM

This 28 days later better be goshdarn good if you all say its better than Night, Dawn and Day. I especially think Dawn was the best zombie movie ever. Its a dirty american movie. An independent horror film that actually makes commentary on american consumerism. Its entertaining, funny and has a dire pace. Despite the amateur actors, I actually felt for them. I don't know, Dawn was really really good. It has that END OF THE WORLD feeling (Day not as much) that no other movie has captured. People should watch it again.

Also lets not forget Peter Jackson's Dead Alive! A nice comic book zombie movie!

etc

Tom Chick

06-02-2003, 06:42 AM

there is a still a royal army batallion near Manchester

I'm claiming an early moral victory in this issue based on the fact that you don't know what you're talking about. In the movie I saw, they didn't even have enough solidiers for a cotillion, much less a batallion [sic].

I know you hate being corrected when you're just launching into one of your verbal tears, but I can't argue with a guy who doesn't know a battalion from a denouement. :)

-Tom

EDIT: Spelled cotillion correctly so the whole post hangs together better.

DrCrypt

06-02-2003, 07:02 AM

I'm claiming an early moral victory in this issue based on the fact that you don't know what you're talking about. In the movie I saw, they didn't even have enough solidiers for a cotollion, much less a batallion [sic].
That sic after my typo would probably have been a hell of a lot more withering had you managed to spell "cotollion (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=cotillion&r=2)" [sic] correctly four words before it. And I think definition number deuce (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=battalion&r=3) of battalion as merely "a large body of organized troops" makes me the official victor in the Qt3 Sexy Vocabulary competition. Cue SpoofyChop's entry into the thread to call me his Qt3 hero again for going head to head with you, Tom.

As for whatever you are wokka-wokka-ing about in regards to Jaws 2, I think there's a dramatic difference between the ambiguity about the fate of humanity in 28 Days Later (which is what the entire movie is about and, just to remind you, you earlier claimed in this thread was resolved as an unquestionable victory... an assertion which you seem to have abandoned) and various Drefusian transportational issues at the end of a movie primarily about how many bikini babes a shark can ram down its maw in two hours.

Tom Chick

06-02-2003, 07:41 AM

the fate of humanity in 28 Days Later (which is what the entire movie is about and, just to remind you, you earlier claimed in this thread was resolved as an unquestionable victory

Ah, well, there's your problem: you're not reading my posts.

I said no such thing. I wrote 'the virus failed to destroy humanity'. You somehow subbed in the words 'unquestionable victory'. My spelling of cotillion is officially irrelevant, so we go back to you mistaking a depleted squad for an entire battalion and even a cheerleader like Spoofychop can't save you now.

I score! For the victory! Yes! Now go back and watch Planet of the Apes and Jungle Fever again.

The rest of you in the US can see for yourselves on June 27th.

-Tom

Moore

06-02-2003, 02:56 PM

I liked the other ending better, except for the halucinatory 'riding his messenger bike in trippy vision' crap.

Desslock

06-03-2003, 07:18 AM

I agree with Crypt, although I saw the movie months ago with Tom -- the ending is so effective because it provides the sort of closure that so many horror films fail to provide in order to leave room for the sequel, yet there's no assurance that the virus hasn't spread to other (less isolated) areas of the world, which provides ample fodder for a continuation of the plot.

If there's never a sequel (which will probably be the case), no one goes away disappointed, because you don't feel ripped off by lack of closure -- but there's ample room for a logically developed sequel without completely retconning the original's plot.

Tyjenks

06-03-2003, 07:34 AM

Quickly, because I do not want to spoil it by searching this thread. ALthough I do feel I am missing out on a great battle of wits between Crypt and Chick which I will return to immediately after seeing it. Ohhh the anticipation.

It comes out when in the US? And it is OK to still like it even though Playboy gave it Kudos?

Tom Chick

06-03-2003, 08:02 AM

I agree with Crypt

That the ending was 'ambiguous'? Because everything you wrote, which didn't include calling the ending 'ambiguous', made sense to me.

Tyler, 28 Days Later is scheduled for a June 27th release in the US. I don't know how wide that is, though. You hicks in Birmingham might not get it till it comes out on DVD. :) Which is one reason this Arkansas hick loves being in LA.

-Tom

Tyjenks

06-03-2003, 08:08 AM

Tyler, 28 Days Later is scheduled for a June 27th release in the US. I don't know how wide that is, though. You hicks in Birmingham might not get it till it comes out on DVD. :) Which is one reason this Arkansas hick loves being in LA.

-Tom

Thanks. As long as Jesus is not sleeping around in the film, we should get it the same time as the civilized states. Now if abortion doctors and gays are the first ones to die in the film, I better pre-order my copy. STAT!

Desslock

06-03-2003, 10:43 AM

Spoiler warning.

I agree with Crypt

That the ending was 'ambiguous'? Because everything you wrote, which didn't include calling the ending 'ambiguous', made sense to me.

I don't know if we're just debating appropriate nomenclature, but what I meant is that the ending is "ambiguous" in that within the context of the movie it provides satisfying closure and yet it doesn't conclusively show that there is no longer a virus problem (other than in the location of the movie) -- there are numerous reasons why that plane could be flying over the UK, and it could mean that: (a) the rest of the world is fine, and civilization exists as normal elsewhere; (b) the rest of the world has been savaged, but there still remains a core group of humanity that is in better shape than the people in the movie; or (c) the world has been essentially destroyed, but there is at least one military group functional enough to fly an aircraft.

The movie doesn't answer which of the above scenarios (among others) is actually the case, and therefore the resolution is ambiguous, even though the movie's plot has a satisfying amount of closure.

Stefan

Tom Chick

06-03-2003, 11:11 AM

But the movie isn't about the rest of the world. The movie is about the half dozen characters who are introduced and developed. What happens to them isn't ambiguous in any meaningful sense. They escape the immediate threat and live happily ever until-the-credits-roll-and-presumably-after, albeit in a post-apocalyptic world.

I don't even know why I'm arguing this. Probably because John 'can't-spell-battalion-and-doesn't-even-know-what-it-means' Brownlee busted me for my cotillion typo. :)

Anyway, I hear what you're saying. I loved the ending. Other than Danny Boyle and writer Alex Garland's The Beach riff of one shirtless man taking on an armed cadre in the jungle, I thought it built and broke perfectly. And ended unambiguously.

-Tom

Desslock

06-03-2003, 11:46 AM

What happens to them isn't ambiguous in any meaningful sense

I don't think we're saying anything inconsistent -- what happened to the protagonists is unambiguous. What's happened elsewhere is not explained, and left open for logical expansion.

mtkafka

06-03-2003, 12:15 PM

Just watch THE CRAZIES you crazy people!

http://us.imdb.com/Details?0069895

etc

Preachy Preach

06-03-2003, 12:37 PM

http://us.imdb.com/Trivia?0289043

The trivia bit in the IMDB entry expands on the significance of the ending.

DrCrypt

06-03-2003, 11:28 PM

Look, Tom, I think we can both agree to disagree on the correct spelling of cotillion. And for the sake of argument, I'll even give you the defintion of "ambiguous" which doesn't mean "open to one or more interpretations" (which is true about the end even if you are looking at it as primarily a story about the fate of individuals instead of the fate of England) that you are referencing in some enantiomorph dictionary.

And you know what? I already know everythin' you goin' say 'bout me. I am white. I am a bum. I do live in a trailer with my mom. And my girl did suck Wink's black dick. But I'm still here screaming "Fuck Tom Chick!"