Are DAOC players rich or just insane?

[Anonymous]

Somebody paid $1,400 for two level 50 DAOC characters:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1359500029

$1,000 for a level 47 bard:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2032751562

$800 for another small collection of bytes on the DAOC server:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1359005096

And here's a $600 bargain:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1744985154


Are people freakin' nuts?

[Alan Au]

Are people freakin' nuts?

Yes. :roll:

- Alan

[Dave Long]

Jesus... if I had $1000 of expendable cash lying around, I'd go on a wild spending spree for a hell of a lot of games and not buy some silly character in an online game. At least I'd have some kind of investment...though if people are willing to pay $1000 for what amounts to nothing, I suppose that's some kind of investment too?!

*sigh* $1000 would get me that Radiant Silvergun I want so bad... I might even be able to reclaim a copy of The Reap. Anyone have one they would part with or know where to find it? The Reap was the single greatest loss from my game collection.

--Dave

[Supertanker]

Are people freakin' nuts?

I know a number of people that are very wealthy (like, bought a car with a credit card kind of wealthy), and they would do something like this if they thought it would increase their enjoyment of the game or save some drudgery. Usually you've got time, or you've got money. If you make $500,000 or more a year, it might be worth saving yourself a few days by buying a high level character.

[DavidCPA]

If you think hard enough, you know someone who would drop those kind of amounts on their hobby.
$1,500 - $3,000 for a set of golf clubs?
$2,000 car stero system?
$1,000 worth of car wheels?

It all depends on what you think is important.

-DavidCPA

[mtkafka]

I still dont get it. I can understand maybe 100 or 200. But one grand for something that really isn't tangible is insane. I actually dont mind people buying stuff , until it cheapens the game, which it usually does. EQ for me was literally destroyed by this. The uber attitude. Its just stupid and ghey.

Also funny that people are actually putting up auctions for gold in NWN :roll: ... hehe.

etc

[Mark Asher]

Yes, it's stupid, and no, it's not.

If a grand doesn't make you wince, buying that level 50 character will save you 400 hours or more of mindless leveling.

Is a thousand dollars worth saving you that time? For some people it is, especially if they've already spent 400 hours leveling their own character. Now they want to try a different one but that 400 hours just looks too oppressive.

[Murph]

Really? I'll have to get in on some of those!! :D

[Jessica M.]

I still dont get it. I can understand maybe 100 or 200. But one grand for something that really isn't tangible is insane.

"Intangibles are the most valuable thing you can sell. They are always worth what they cost and you take them with you to your grave."
D. D. Harriman's marketing guru, speaking to a skeptical engineer in Heinlein's The Man Who Sold the Moon.

The quote is from memory, so the wording might be a bit off, but you get the idea. In everything sold, there is something of the intangible. When you buy a hot sports car, do you buy it only because it is a functional vehicle, or do you also buy it because you can imagine yourself tooling down the road in it and how you'll feel as people gaze admiringly as you pass?

If you are going to understand why people pay for persistent worlds, you simply have to understand the power of the intangible. You aren't selling the game per se, you are selling the overall experience - how the player perceives him/her self in the game world and how he/she wants others to perceive him/her in that world. It isn't just about the character and the character's goods and inventory as an object; it is about how that character relates to his/her friends and others, the overall reputation and presentation to the world at large.

In other words, as with the sports car analogy above, it is about acquiring things to feed an intangible need or desire. To persistent world gamers, these characters and inventory items are not wholly intangible; they are 'real' items that exist in the game world to further other intangible desires.

This isn't just pseudo-psychological masturbation; it has a direct bearing on why some games, such as Majestic, fail. It also has a bearing on attempts to bring more of the less-hard core player crowd into the fold. For example, if The Sims! Online doesn't provide some elements of this kind intangible feedback, there is no way it can get the 'mass market' players intrigued and involved long term.

Just my 2 cents...

-Jess

[Anonymous]

I don't understand this concept of "it's worth the money to save all that drudgery of leveling up."

What is to the game besides this "drudgery?"

If the game is boring to play, why is it worth playing?

I'm not going to pay $1,000 for a Daikatana save file which puts me one move from the end of the game.

Do these guys pay $1,000 for a ticket to "The Matrix" which allows them to skip everything but the last five minutes where Neo is uber powerful and wipes out all opposition without trouble? I thought the struggle was the whole point. Ultra-power is boring.

These people are buying a character that someone else already lived. What satisfaction could there be in that? What a waste...

[Legolas Greenleaf]

I don't understand this concept of "it's worth the money to save all that drudgery of leveling up."

What is to the game besides this "drudgery?"

If the game is boring to play, why is it worth playing?

I'm not going to pay $1,000 for a Daikatana save file which puts me one move from the end of the game.

DAOC is a fundamentally different game at the high levels than it is at the low levels. The whole game was designed with realm-vs-realm combat in mind. Unfortunately, unless you're one of the people who manages to always stay at the prevailing highest level range, you get shut out of the best part of the game until you've played hundreds of hours. Many players won't sit through the mid-level drudgery to get to the end-game. And the end game isn't "ultra-power" -- its just the ability to play the game in a different fashion (arguably, they way it was meant to be played). Even if you're level 50 now, you can easily be killed. But being level 50 allows you to participate in all sorts of gameplay experiences (keep raids, marauding on the frontier, hunting stragglers) that, because of the level-based combat system, you just can't succeed in when you're 40th level. I was surprised to see how much strategy there is in the high-level game that is completely absent in lower levels, and I guess this is a result of the design focus. So you can blame the game designers if you want. But buying a high level character doesn't get you to the "end" -- it just lets you play the fun part, which is never-ending and open-ended. Most of the earlier stuff, once the wonder factor wears off, is dreadfully dull.

[Jason Becker]

Or go on those big 'plane' raids and such that EQ has.

[Aszurom]

"Intangibles are the most valuable thing you can sell. They are always worth what they cost and you take them with you to your grave."
D. D. Harriman's marketing guru, speaking to a skeptical engineer in Heinlein's The Man Who Sold the Moon.
[/quote]

Would you care to lay down the Jubal Harshaw for us too? Jubal is by and far my favorite character in any work of fiction I've ever read.

[Jessica M.]

"Intangibles are the most valuable thing you can sell. They are always worth what they cost and you take them with you to your grave."
D. D. Harriman's marketing guru, speaking to a skeptical engineer in Heinlein's The Man Who Sold the Moon.

Would you care to lay down the Jubal Harshaw for us too? Jubal is by and far my favorite character in any work of fiction I've ever read.

If I come across an appropriate quote, sure, <g>.

[Derek Smart [3000AD]]

Yes, it's stupid, and no, it's not.

If a grand doesn't make you wince, buying that level 50 character will save you 400 hours or more of mindless leveling.

Is a thousand dollars worth saving you that time? For some people it is, especially if they've already spent 400 hours leveling their own character. Now they want to try a different one but that 400 hours just looks too oppressive.

Well said. I agree. Its all about economics, isn't it?

[Desslock]

>Its all about economics, isn't it?

Except economics is rational.
Maybe the people buying characters/items/etc. are rich investment bankers, doctors, etc. whose time is worth far more than it costs to establish that sort of character, but I think that's the exception. Most of these purchases are just addicts and, like gamblers, spend far beyond their rational means in order to feed their addiction. I think the whole phenomenon is really sad.

Stefan

[Mark Asher]

That article about Simutronics I had on the front page said Elonka Dunin spent $15,000 on online gaming back in the 80's.

[Anonymous]

But buying a high level character doesn't get you to the "end" -- it just lets you play the fun part, which is never-ending and open-ended. Most of the earlier stuff, once the wonder factor wears off, is dreadfully dull.

I looked up the definition of poor game design in the dictionary and it showed a picture of a game where only after 400 game hours does it reach its peak.

Frankly, you have to be a fucking idiot to play a game for 400 hours IN ORDER to have an enjoyable experience afterwards when you didn't have one previously.

In contrast the person who pays $1,000 ($2.50 per hour labor cost, 10-year old Indian laborers get paid more) for that Level 50 character is a genius.

Of course, much of this is moot since most (if not all) DAOC players DO have fun over the course of the first 50 levels of play.

Even in a power-leveller's paradise there must be enjoyment at lower levels or the game fails.

[Mark Asher]

Dark Age is a lot of fun for the first 15-20 levels. From 20-30 it's not too bad. From 30-50 it sucks, though. So out of that 400 hours, a good chunk of that time is fun.

[Xaroc]

All I can say is those prices make me want to Ebay my 50th level Minstrel and 47th level Armsman. I sunk a lot of time into DAoC and it was fun for the most part. I met a lot of cool people and there were a lot of good moments. My wife still enjoys the game because of the people. I have gone into semi-retirement with DAoC after vacation and have started playing a ton of NWN.

The only thing holding me back from Ebaying is I hate the thought of someone using the name Xaroc in a game and being a jerk and it getting back to me. Then again $1000 is $1000. Maybe I can /appeal myself to get my name changed. :)

-- Xaroc

[Met_K]

"Intangibles are the most valuable thing you can sell. They are always worth what they cost and you take them with you to your grave."
D. D. Harriman's marketing guru, speaking to a skeptical engineer in Heinlein's The Man Who Sold the Moon.

[snip]

This isn't just pseudo-psychological masturbation; it has a direct bearing on why some games, such as Majestic, fail. It also has a bearing on attempts to bring more of the less-hard core player crowd into the fold. For example, if The Sims! Online doesn't provide some elements of this kind intangible feedback, there is no way it can get the 'mass market' players intrigued and involved long term.

Just my 2 cents...

-Jess

Ah, yes, the PC Gamer of MMORPGetc's rears her head.

Ahoy, ready the cannons, mateys, and fire into the chest of that sea monster!

[Brian Rucker]

"Intangibles are the most valuable thing you can sell. They are always worth what they cost and you take them with you to your grave."
D. D. Harriman's marketing guru, speaking to a skeptical engineer in Heinlein's The Man Who Sold the Moon.

[snip]

This isn't just pseudo-psychological masturbation; it has a direct bearing on why some games, such as Majestic, fail. It also has a bearing on attempts to bring more of the less-hard core player crowd into the fold. For example, if The Sims! Online doesn't provide some elements of this kind intangible feedback, there is no way it can get the 'mass market' players intrigued and involved long term.

Just my 2 cents...

-Jess

Ah, yes, the PC Gamer of MMORPGetc's rears her head.

Ahoy, ready the cannons, mateys, and fire into the chest of that sea monster!

Actually, I agree with her point but the principle we're discussing, spending real money for powerful imaginary characters, is yet another nail in the coffin of my interest in power-levelling games. When we figure out how to make roleplaying games online perhaps a meritocracy will finally arise - you can't buy talent.

[Tom Chick]

Ahoy, ready the cannons, mateys, and fire into the chest of that sea monster!

Why is Met_K acting like a pirate and shooting at Jessica Mulligan's chest?

-Tom

[Met_K]

Why is Met_K acting like a pirate and shooting at Jessica Mulligan's chest?

-Tom

Arrr! We've come to plunder Jessica Mulligan's chest for our own! Don't ye know, landlubber, that them damned ninja's will surely take that land for their own if we do not take it in the name of all that is righteous! We shall plunder her chest and keep it safe from those damn dirty ninjas! Arrr!

[Tom Chick]

Don't ye know, landlubber, that them damned ninja's will surely take that land for their own if we do not take it in the name of all that is righteous!

Is this a gay thing?

-Tom

[Alan Au]

Seems to me that buying a pre-built character is kind of like adopting a 5 year-old child so you can "skip to the fun part." Then again, maybe it's more akin to paying someone to edit out the "love scenes" from Episode II. I guess it depends what you want out of the experience.

- Alan

[Robert Sharp]

If DAoC were designed a bit better, I think the mid levels could be a lot more fun. You can engage in the Battlegrounds at level 20-24 (I could be off a bit on the range), which is pretty fun. However, after that, you join the big leagues and you can't do anything there until you are much higher level. I think they should have RvR divided up somehow, so that there are places for every 5 levels (30-35, 36-40, etc.) and you could actually participate, gain realm points and have a good time. As it is, you spend most of those levels trying to level up, and it takes a LONG time.

[Mark Asher]

They have three battlegrounds 20-24, 25-29, and 30-35 or something like that. The low level one was great. The mid-level one was almost always empty -- this was on Lancelot. The high level one you need to be near the level cap.

[Robert Sharp]

You are right Mark. I don't play those levels much. Still, a lot of people after 35 complain that they can't play the game again for at least 10 levels. And they have gotten a taste of the good stuff.

[Mark Asher]

You are right Mark. I don't play those levels much. Still, a lot of people after 35 complain that they can't play the game again for at least 10 levels. And they have gotten a taste of the good stuff.

That's true. You really need to be level 50 to fully participate in the RvR, though you can contribute at level 45+ I guess. Anything much less than that and you're a dead toon walking.