Band of Brothers DVD [Archive] - Quarter To Three Forums

wumpus

11-08-2002, 05:49 PM

Holy crap. I just watched DVD 1 of 5, and it's really good. My only criticism is that there are a few too many portentous, lingering closeups of guys with that "war is hell" look on their faces-- these should have been whittled down to improve running time. We get it already; one too many of those and the whole thing starts to feel preachy and contrived.

Amazing Dolby Digital 5.1 sound on this disc, as well. I know I'm starting to sound like an audiophile whore here, but.. for God's sake, do whatever it takes to get yourself a decent 5.1 home theater system with a proper subwoofer. And rear speakers large enough to produce some bass (think 5" or so). Damn the neighbors, full speed ahead!

But seriously. It doesn't have to be loud to be impressive; simply reproducing the bass rumble of a tank, or the clear, localized gunshots going off all around you -- that's more than enough at reasonable volumes to make it well worth your while.

Sean Tudor

11-08-2002, 06:09 PM

Holy crap. I just watched DVD 1 of 5, and it's really good. My only criticism is that there are a few too many portentous, lingering closeups of guys with that "war is hell" look on their faces-- these should have been whittled down to improve running time. We get it already; one too many of those and the whole thing starts to feel preachy and contrived.

I didn't think it was contrived - especially compared to SPR. As someone who has had to put up with one too many military exercises believe me you do adopt a certain look after four weeks of no sleep and constant battle exercises.

(Please note that although I have served in the military I have been lucky enough never to have participated in a real war - maybe someone here with some real battle experience can comment).

wumpus

11-08-2002, 06:18 PM

I'll agree with that. It was better than SPR-- less sentimental smarminess. The battle scenes are just as good, which surprised me.

chet

11-08-2002, 06:31 PM

I think out of the whole series, the middle to end episodes were the best, with some of the middle battles being amazing.

Saw it awhile ago so I don't remember particulars.

SPR?

Chet

Kool Moe Dee

11-08-2002, 07:39 PM

SPR?

Saving Private Ryan.

balut

11-08-2002, 08:23 PM

I wonder how it would have been if they had used Gunnery Sgt. Hartman (R. Lee Ermey) in airborne boot camp instead of David "the whiny Friend" Schwimmer?

Anonymous

11-08-2002, 09:19 PM

You see Ermey's series on The History Channel? Guy has become a total caricature of himself.

The reason they used Scwhimmer is because the real-life character was exactly like that. Totally inept in leading men, but thanks to the Peter Principle, he was an airborne company commander. There were serious discussions amongst the enlisted men of actually fragging him, because they knew he was a serious danger to their survival once combat started.

That's why all the NCO's threatened to resign like they did.

Alan Dunkin

11-08-2002, 09:20 PM

The guy Schwimmer is based on looks very much like him, and was even a worse person than BoB lets on.

Band of Brothers is freakin' awesome, and is one of the best programs to appear on television, cable or otherwise, period. Found 2, 5 (Tom Hanks dir.), 7 and 8 to be the best episodes, and 4 and 6 (surprisingly) the weakest, but by far it is well worth watching. If this if your first time wumpus, I think you're in for a treat.

Oh yeah, the picture looks better from the DVD than it did on digital cable, though I dunno how the HD broadcast fared. Worth every penny of $80.

--- Alan

Brad Grenz

11-08-2002, 09:53 PM

$80? I wants it sooooo bad...

mtkafka

11-08-2002, 10:15 PM

sorta OT but I was playing my recent purchase of Crash Bandicoot on PS2 (friggin load times are insane!) and guess who does voice on it? Gunnery Sergeant Ermey!

BTW, I thought Band of Brothers rocked... except a few episodes were letdowns.. like the marketgarden episode felt like MacGuyver. But most of the battle scenes are great and the way they reveal more of the characters as the series goes on is good... like how they tell stories of the cruel lieutenant and then you find out something else.

etc

Tyjenks

11-09-2002, 05:34 AM

I will concur that Band of Brothers was excellent. My only problem is that red-headed limey bastard who was the main character. We needed a real American in that role dag nammit. :wink:

Seriously, he was great, that guy from Office Space was great, Donnie Wahlberg (where is that New Kids on the Block reunion tour) was great, the guy who played the medic was great, the 'Catlic' guy was great. I apologize for not remembering any of the names, but it has been a while and I am too lazy to look them up. Hanks and Spielberg gathered quite a cast of talented actors who, while not well known, all fit the bill. Jeez what a great series.

Until my wife and I watched it, I had no idea the U.S. and it's allies were in the dark about the concentration camps until the war was nearly over. I hope some sort of deal is being made with High Schools around the country to use this as a teaching tool in history classes for it's excellent and accurate depiction of the war.

chet

11-09-2002, 07:16 AM

Until my wife and I watched it, I had no idea the U.S. and it's allies were in the dark about the concentration camps until the war was nearly over.

it's excellent and accurate depiction of the war.

Hmmmm??? Humpf.

There was news in US papers of the concentration camps before the US even entered the war. Once the war started for America, there were even protests by US Jews to demand the US bomb the railways etc, anything to try and stop the carnage.

But it was not headline news until the US was in the war, and it is very likely that no one had a very clear picture of what was really happening and to what extent. At least not in a personally connected way as shown on the show.

Chet

Tyjenks

11-09-2002, 07:30 AM

I did not know that. Maybe along with incorporating BoB into classroom curriculum, students could be directed to the Qt3 boards as a study aid. :wink:

Alan Dunkin

11-09-2002, 11:44 AM

No one knew exactly what was going on, and there was a lot of confusion. It was widely known that Jews were being de-populated throughout Europe and moved.. and sometimes there were clear indicators where. Most just assumed they were concentration camps and didn't have any real inkling they were death camps.

Some did suspect, but it was never really given much basis to run with. This sub-plot in War & Remembrance was one of the better ones I thought.

BTW, Donnie Wahlberg (Lipton) and Neal Macdonough (Compton) are both in a show this season called Boomtown on NBC (a Dreamworks show) which is quite good. Both Wahlberg and Lewis (Winters) are in movie Dreamweaver (Feb 2003) as well. Kind of cool to see BoB actors working in the same program.

--- Alan

Tyjenks

11-09-2002, 12:02 PM

BTW, Donnie Wahlberg (Lipton) and Neal Macdonough (Compton) are both in a show this season called Boomtown on NBC (a Dreamworks show) which is quite good. Both Wahlberg and Lewis (Winters) are in movie Dreamweaver (Feb 2003) as well. Kind of cool to see BoB actors working in the same program.

--- Alan

I was very interesred in watching after seeing the previews for Boomtown. Alas, it comes on opposite The Sopranos. Hopefully, I can catch it re-reuns.

wumpus

11-09-2002, 02:34 PM

Time to buy a Tivo, my friend..

Alan Dunkin

11-09-2002, 11:33 PM

I was very interesred in watching after seeing the previews for Boomtown. Alas, it comes on opposite The Sopranos. Hopefully, I can catch it re-reuns.

I just watch the re-runs of the Sopranos, since it's on every night of week.. unless it's must-have-water-cooler talk on Monday.

Alternatively I could download Boomtown, but it doesn't seem to be a priority for most of the places I visit (yet they digitize Evermore or Everclear or whatever.. bah) so it's pretty hard to find.

--- Alan

Brian Rucker

11-10-2002, 12:27 PM

Actually, I saw a historian on Booknotes or Charlie Rose (yes, I'm nerdier than the average gamer - yet somehow the ladies still love me) discussing America's awareness of the Holocaust. In particular Roosevelt, I think. One of his advisors was a secular Jew that tended to avoid the more radical and outspoken Jewish community until they presented him with evidence of the deathcamps. This was before we got involved in the war. Roosevelt refused to pubicize the issue or get committed because he was afraid that endorsing a 'radical' Jewish agenda would hurt the cause of getting America to go to war. There was, evidently, as much or more anti-Semitism in the U.S. in that period as any hostility towards Germany or Japan.

Our government, as well as the British government, had documented proof of what was happening but simply had other priorities. The public and the regular military probably didn't find out until much later.

DrDel

10-12-2006, 05:11 PM

I am rewatching Band of Brothers.. just watched DVD 1-4 today (8 hours of goodness while I lay on the couch recovering from my cold).

I forgot how great this series is!

If you are bored and/or sick of TV this season buy the BoB DVD set if you can. I am sure it is pretty cheap now that it has been out for a few years.

Good news, the IMDB was updated in August stating the BoB Sequel, "The Pacific War", is going to be released in 3 short years! ( I can hardly wait...)

http://imdb.com/title/tt0374463/

More information on the sequel:

http://www.upcomingepics.com/pacific_war/synopsis_faq.shtml

Alan Dunkin

10-12-2006, 05:16 PM

Unfortunately it deals with following a USO crew, which sounds stupid as hell.

--- Alan

Woolen Horde

10-12-2006, 05:47 PM

Unfortunately it deals with following a USO crew, which sounds stupid as hell.

--- Alan

That info might be dated.... heard recently that they were going to focus on the 1st Marine Division.... that's unconfirmed, though.

The problem with the Pacfiic War, in terms of storytelling, is that there's no equivalent to the 101st. in other words, no ground unit that participated in all the major actions. With Easy, you had D-Day, Market Garden, Bastogne, and even seizing the Eagle's Nest... covers all the major events. (Sure, we're skipping over Italy, but....)

You might make an argument for the Enterprise, which fought in pretty much every major naval battle, but I can't think of a Marine unit that did the same.

Guido Jones

10-12-2006, 06:04 PM

(Sure, we're skipping over Italy, but....)

And Northern Africa.

spiffy

10-12-2006, 06:50 PM

You might make an argument for the Enterprise, which fought in pretty much every major naval battle, but I can't think of a Marine unit that did the same.

I would go cocoa for cocoa puffs on an HBO series on air warfare, but as impressive as they could make the air battles, it probably wouldn't.. fly. Loafing around the carrier, heading out for a patrol, come back, loaf around the carrier, drawn out dogfight, loaf around the carrier...

SlyFrog

10-12-2006, 07:01 PM

The guy Schwimmer is based on looks very much like him, and was even a worse person than BoB lets on.

I have actually read the opposite viewpoint: that while he was not the nicest guy, Winters for some reason took a dislike for him that was far greater than warranted, and that he was not nearly as bad as Winters has portrayed him as being. Now, in addition to being unfairly maligned by Winters in the actual service, he has been unfairly maligned by history.

triggercut

10-12-2006, 07:10 PM

I have actually read the opposite viewpoint: that while he was not the nicest guy, Winters for some reason took a dislike for him that was far greater than warranted, and that he was not nearly as bad as Winters has portrayed him as being. Now, in addition to being unfairly maligned by Winters in the actual service, he has been unfairly maligned by history.

...and from whom did you read that? Source it, please.

In the book, it's very damn clear that Sobel was a martinet, great at getting his men to hate him (but perform in training) but awful as an actual combat leader. It isn't Winters tearing him down--it's every guy in Easy Company. The chickenshit court-martial he tried to put on Winters speaks for itself.

Alan Dunkin

10-12-2006, 07:13 PM

Members of Easy Company at the BoB premiere had problems even having conversations with Schwimmer, they disliked Sobel so much. Guernere I believe is the only one who actively sought him out after the war.

Speaking of which, one little frustration with the way the show ended was during the baseball game, Winters is explaining what happened to the members of Easy, but passed over everyone who had already left or got wounded - Guernere, Toye, Gordon, Powers, Malarkey, etc.

--- Alan

SlyFrog

10-12-2006, 07:20 PM

...and from whom did you read that? Source it, please.

I don't recall, but I'll try to dig it up. If I remember correctly (it was awhile ago that I read it), the guy died alone and was basically broken by the experience and the mistreatment he received (or at least he felt he received). He may have even committed suicide.

EDIT: Attempted to commit suicide.

Enduro_Man

10-12-2006, 07:24 PM

I don't recall, but I'll try to dig it up. If I remember correctly (it was awhile ago that I read it), the guy died alone and was basically broken by the experience and the mistreatment he received (or at least he felt he received). He may have even committed suicide.

This part was definitely covered by Ambrose. My memory may also be faulty, but I remember reading that not even his immediate family attended his funeral.

SlyFrog

10-12-2006, 07:35 PM

Marcus

10-12-2006, 07:44 PM

Schwimmer did a truly outstanding job playing the guy either way.

triggercut

10-12-2006, 08:00 PM

Yeah, I attempted to dig it up quickly, but I can't find it right off. For all I know, it was a newspaper article or something.

Again, the point of it was not that he was a great guy, just that the treatment of him went way above and beyond that which he deserved.

Which isn't much of a point, since all the evidence presented says otherwise.

What struck me about Sobel in the book was that, if anything, the guys in Easy who survived were actually being fairly easy on him, and even by doing so, they revealed him as a monumental prick and an awful human being.

Significantly, it's the guys who got promoted to officer ranks and served in the army as such beyond WWII who were the most vocally critical of Sobel. They're the ones who walked in Sobel's shoes and realized exactly what an ass their original CO was.

Damien Falgoust

10-12-2006, 09:11 PM

Wikipedia's Herbert Sobel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Sobel) entry.

Jupiter Jones

10-12-2006, 09:17 PM

By the way, many of the "story" elements from "Band Of Brothers" were liberally barrowed from the book "Company Commander" by Charles B. MacDonald.

Also HBO's WWII movie "When Trumpets Fade" that was released about 4 months before SPV is a lost gem.

SlyFrog

10-13-2006, 06:51 AM

Which isn't much of a point, since all the evidence presented says otherwise.

I don't know. All of the evidence presented by hero Dick Winter, and his squad who worshipped him (I'm not putting stock in the fact that his family did not attend his funeral - years after the fact, and after the experience, is enough to make the causation for that potentially completely different). Who, in a field exercise, drugged the guy for real (put him under real anesthetic) and proceeded to give him a fake appendectomy by actually cutting an incision into him.

Sources that come from a small bonded group can be fallible. If all of the evidence consisted of official military records of misconduct, or some source outside of E Company, I'd have an easier time closing the book on the chance that the victor wrote the history on this one.

Mike O'Malley

10-13-2006, 07:15 AM

I don't know. All of the evidence presented by hero Dick Winter, and his squad who worshipped him (I'm not putting stock in the fact that his family did not attend his funeral - years after the fact, and after the experience, is enough to make the causation for that potentially completely different). Who, in a field exercise, drugged the guy for real (put him under real anesthetic) and proceeded to give him a fake appendectomy by actually cutting an incision into him.

I'm having trouble parsing this. What are you saying about "all the evidence presented by hero Dick Winter,.."? Who drugged which guy for a fake appendectomy?

Wikipedia entries on Winters and Sobel yield no reference to the appendectomy incident, so I'm trying to figure out who cut whom.

Hammet

10-13-2006, 07:20 AM

Also HBO's WWII movie "When Trumpets Fade" that was released about 4 months before SPV is a lost gem.
Agreed. See it.

As an aside, a friend of mine who went through Falluja, not uninjured, told me he still cringes from the opening sequence in Saving Private Ryan. Maybe even more so now than before. That scene is so damn intense. I've been on the firing end of a mg (a GPMG) and to see the end result of several MG's trained on packed human bodies ... I'm glad if I never have to experience that.

SlyFrog

10-13-2006, 08:13 AM

I'm having trouble parsing this. What are you saying about "all the evidence presented by hero Dick Winter,.."? Who drugged which guy for a fake appendectomy?

Wikipedia entries on Winters and Sobel yield no reference to the appendectomy incident, so I'm trying to figure out who cut whom.

When people discuss "the evidence," for the most part they are discussing the information received from E Company, in particular from Winters, and very specifically, given by Winters to Ambrose.

The reference regarding the appendectomy is apparently in an Ambrose book. I have seen several references to it online, but have not hunted it down in Ambrose's book myself. An example is found here:

Alot of it seems to stem from the tricks and pranks the members of the 506th played on him during the war. Some of those pranks were harmless but others were just downright cruel and malicious.For instance, at the live firing ranges, Sobel experienced some "accidental" near misses. However, the worst was played on a field exercise where some men were designated simulated casualties so that the medics could practice their bandages, improvised splints and casts. Sobel was one of those chosen. Stephen Ambrose describes what happened next:

"The medics put him under a real anaesthetic, pulled down his pants, made a real incision simulating an appendectomy. They sewed up the incision and bound it up with bandages and surgical tape, then disappeared." Sobel was quite rightly furious, but no-one could seem to identify the guilty parties so an investigation didn't get off the ground. Its things like this that makes one sympathetic towards him.

http://boards.historychannel.com/thread.jspa?threadID=700001013&messageID=800205909

Please note, I'm not suggesting that I have the ultimate source (or even any solid sources) to "win" any argument in the other direction. I am simply suggesting that the sources of evidence for this are someone suspect to simply rely on them as painting the final, book is closed picture of Sobel.

DrDel

10-13-2006, 05:12 PM

DrDel

10-13-2006, 05:15 PM

Schwimmer did a truly outstanding job playing the guy either way.

That's because Schwimmer is an easy guy to hate. I hated him in the Wonder Years, Friends and BoB.

DrDel

10-13-2006, 05:21 PM

Significantly, it's the guys who got promoted to officer ranks and served in the army as such beyond WWII who were the most vocally critical of Sobel. They're the ones who walked in Sobel's shoes and realized exactly what an ass their original CO was.

You also have to recall that Sobel became a Supply Officer after leaving the Jump School. Supply Techs (NCOs and Officers) don't die. Airborne do. So it is a lot easier to get promoted up the chain as a Stillborne, oops, I mean Airborne, than it is a supply guy. Supply officers are known for being old and fat for a reason.

What I am saying is that the officers who get promoted in the Infantry/Airborne aren't necessarily great officers, they also just beat the odds.

-----

As for Winter's taking out the AA/88's -- pardon my ignorance -- but why is the tactic he used so special that he deserves the highest ranking order in the US of A? Wouldn't must peeps lay down MG fire and then flank the enemy from both sides? Please educate me if I missed something. (Having Lt. Speirs on your side also helped I am sure.)

Alan Dunkin

10-13-2006, 06:23 PM

The highest ranking order? What exactly are you talking about? Like a medal? He didn't get the highest ranking medal.

It's special because: he took on a reinforced position with minimal manpower and he accomplished his objective spectacularly with only 2 casualties.

--- Alan

DrDel

10-13-2006, 06:30 PM

Alan, after BoB was released there was (and still is) a huge movement to give Winters the highest ranking honor. There is an online petition you can sign.

I believe he got the second highest ranking honor (too lazy too Google it) during the war -- which was still pretty fricking good for what he did.

From a tactician point of view I don't see anything brilliant. I think any one of us would have laid the MG down in the center and outflanked the enemy. He just had horseshoes up his ass that he only had 2 casualties. It could have easily went to other way... they all could have died. Which sounds more like luck that tactical skill to me.

Personally, I think all of Easy should have received the Medal of Fucking Honor for holding the line until Patton showed up. That was fucking nuts... balls of steel should win medals, not luck.

Guido Jones

10-13-2006, 07:07 PM

How is taking out at least a platoon of germans with 12 men not "balls of steel"

Luck could also be used describe how they were able to defend Bastogne as well.

If you don't like him, or his cult of personality, just say so, but don't try to discredit his accomplishments on the battlefield.

DrDel

10-13-2006, 07:35 PM

I didn't say I don't like the guy. He is the second most likable guy in BoB... Lt. Speirs being my personal favorite.

I just don't get why everyone puts his tatical decision on a fricking pedastal.

Alan Dunkin

10-13-2006, 08:42 PM

Certainly seems like you're attempting to take away his accomplishments - not really the mark a person who likes somebody. Next you'll probably be saying he didn't deserve any of his promotions and your boy Spiers should have been general.

--- Alan

SlyFrog

10-13-2006, 08:58 PM

Purportedly Winters didn't get the medal simply because there was some goofy policy of only granting one per division (or perhaps battalion - in any event, he basically lost out because of a numbers game, not because he was deemed truly unworthy of the medal).

Jason McCullough

10-13-2006, 10:09 PM

presented by hero Dick Winter

With a name like that, it's a miracle he didn't end up President.

XPav

10-13-2006, 10:09 PM

Personally, I think all of Easy should have received the Medal of Fucking Honor for holding the line until Patton showed up. That was fucking nuts... balls of steel should win medals, not luck.
How about the entire 101st, plus Combat Command B of the 10th Armored?

Easy wasn't alone -- and some of the scenes where other companies in the battalion break and run (episode 3, I believe) are inaccurate.

Still a great series. Giving Winters a Medal of Honor because he's a popular guy now? That seems to cheapen the medal a bit.

DrDel

10-14-2006, 12:53 PM

...Next you'll probably be saying he didn't deserve any of his promotions and your boy Spiers should have been general.

--- Alan

Dude, Spiers should have been made General. Damn, that guy was portrayed as a Super Soldier.

Assuming his portrayal was accurate.. running right through German lines straight towards a Panzer while the Germans are staring at him in bewilderment, too stunned to shoot him is crazy!

He touches base with I Company and then he runs back through the German lines to meet up with Echo company again!

That's balls of steel.

That scene was my favorite of the whole series. Hilarious and amazing at the same time.

Spiers should have been made General General.. if not the President of the US of F'n A after Roosevelt resigned/died.

Guido Jones

10-14-2006, 04:38 PM

DrDel

10-14-2006, 06:29 PM

He was also a looter and he may or may not have murdered a half dozen german POW's on D-Day.

Which wouldn't have disqualified him from president, but would have for rising very high in the ranks of the military.

The D-day shootings were never confirmed.. so we have to assume it didn't happen until someone proves it did. :(

As for the looting, wouldn't you lewt that phat shite? I mean, jeez, looting from Hitler's Eagle's Nest. I'd lewt it. Even if I had to camp the Eagle's Nest all night.

He did get his though. Apparently, when he returned home, his wife divorced him and kept all of the phat lewt he sent her while he was in Europe. So he never kept a penny.

Tragedy.

Enduro_Man

10-14-2006, 07:07 PM

As for the looting, wouldn't you lewt that phat shite? I mean, jeez, looting from Hitler's Eagle's Nest. I'd lewt it. Even if I had to camp the Eagle's Nest all night.

Let's not forget that finding all those secret passages behind Der Fuhrer's portraits is no easy task. No GameFAQs back then, after all.

Guido Jones

10-14-2006, 07:30 PM

The D-day shootings were never confirmed.. so we have to assume it didn't happen until someone proves it did. :(

As for the looting, wouldn't you lewt that phat shite? I mean, jeez, looting from Hitler's Eagle's Nest. I'd lewt it. Even if I had to camp the Eagle's Nest all night.

He did get his though. Apparently, when he returned home, his wife divorced him and kept all of the phat lewt he sent her while he was in Europe. So he never kept a penny.

Tragedy.

That's why I said may or may not have (I find it likely it did happen, lots of bad things happened on D-Day on both sides). And looting eagle's nest? Sure. Looting random German citizens? No.

His wife was a widow of a brtish airman that was shot down - when the war was over, her first husband showed up (as he'd been captured, not killed) and they took all the things Spiers sent back to her.

XPav

10-15-2006, 12:52 AM

Karma!

FWIW, guys who kick ass on the battlefield don't always make the best generals. Ike, after all, never held a combat command but was the #1 general due to his organizational and admin talents.

Damien Falgoust

10-15-2006, 07:45 AM

FWIW, guys who kick ass on the battlefield don't always make the best generals. Ike, after all, never held a combat command but was the #1 general due to his organizational and admin talents.Lieutenants worry about tactics, Colonels worry about strategy, Generals worry about logistics.

Woolen Horde

02-28-2012, 07:54 PM

RIP Buck Compton, one of the rocks of Easy Company, and later District Attorney of Los Angeles who prosecuted Sirhan Sirhan for the assassination of Bobby Kennedy.

rowe33

02-28-2012, 09:03 PM

One of my favorites from the show...RIP Buck.

Scuzz

02-29-2012, 09:13 AM

I didn't think it was contrived - especially compared to SPR. As someone who has had to put up with one too many military exercises believe me you do adopt a certain look after four weeks of no sleep and constant battle exercises.

(Please note that although I have served in the military I have been lucky enough never to have participated in a real war - maybe someone here with some real battle experience can comment).

Band of Brothers is a hell of a lot better than Saving Private Ryan. Other than the first 30 minutes of SPR that movie is strictly Hollywood stuff, whereas BoB is all real.

Okay I just noticed the age of this thread and it's re-birth due to the death of one of the brothers. Sad to see, but he led quite a life.